Declining Governmental Effectiveness
June 21, 2020 2:09 AM Subscribe
"The UK, Spain, Belgium, and Italy are not only the countries with the biggest incidence of excess deaths in 2020, they are also those that have witnessed the biggest relative decline in government effectiveness, as measured by the World Bank, over the last 20 years."
The article links to this page at the World Bank. You can start to compare the data there.
The World Bank page links to this page, which has links to methodology, a downloadable spreadsheet, etc.
posted by carter at 3:29 AM on June 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
The World Bank page links to this page, which has links to methodology, a downloadable spreadsheet, etc.
posted by carter at 3:29 AM on June 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
The article links to this page at the World Bank. You can start to compare the data there.
Thanks! I was looking for a link in the article, but couldn't (still can't) find it.
posted by mumimor at 4:06 AM on June 21, 2020
Thanks! I was looking for a link in the article, but couldn't (still can't) find it.
posted by mumimor at 4:06 AM on June 21, 2020
Hah! It's the text "as measured by the World Bank" which is slightly darker than the main text. It does underline if you mouse over it, but it's just overall bad design. Sigh ...
posted by carter at 4:12 AM on June 21, 2020
posted by carter at 4:12 AM on June 21, 2020
OK, too many words for me, but I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment. This, though:
It doesn't mean they're wrong, though. My sense is that we'll see a growth in locally organising to address community needs that that the centralised government is unwilling or incapable of providing for, though I wouldn't have any idea what that would look like.
posted by Grangousier at 4:34 AM on June 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
[T]he truth is that not every city and every country with a large international airport hub has been a focus of contagion. Amsterdam or Frankfurt host respectively the third and fourth largest airports in Europe, but the incidence of the pandemic in both the cities and their respective countries has been far lower than in Spain, the UK, or France.That's because almost all the people who land at Schiphol or Frankfurt airports immediately get on planes to somewhere else, whereas a lot of the people who land at Heathrow or Barajas leave the airports and go into the nearby cities.
It doesn't mean they're wrong, though. My sense is that we'll see a growth in locally organising to address community needs that that the centralised government is unwilling or incapable of providing for, though I wouldn't have any idea what that would look like.
posted by Grangousier at 4:34 AM on June 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
My sense is that we'll see a growth in locally organising to address community needs that that the centralised government is unwilling or incapable of providing for, though I wouldn't have any idea what that would look like.
The thing about a global pandemic is that it's really hard/maybe impossible to deal with on a local level. Pandemics are one of the good reasons to have a government. I'm in the middle of reading this article in the NYTimes, about epidemiology, and someone it it suggests there should be a “center for epidemic forecasting.” [they] draw an analogy to institutions like the National Weather Service. “There were a few big storms at the turn of the century with terrible loss of life and also enormous economic consequence, so there was interest at the time in figuring how to predict the weather”
There was a small town in Northern Italy that was able to cut itself off from the rest of the country, but I can't see that happening in a big city.
BTW, while playing around with the World Bank numbers, I noticed that the US doesn't fit into this theory. But I have a theory about that: the index is about perception of governmental effectiveness, and people tend to perceive the US to be more effective relatively to the rest of the world than it is. Just look at how voting works in the US. More like chaos than a well-oiled machine, IMO. Or more relevantly: look at US healthcare, weirdly there are still people who believe it is the best in the world.
posted by mumimor at 4:56 AM on June 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
The thing about a global pandemic is that it's really hard/maybe impossible to deal with on a local level. Pandemics are one of the good reasons to have a government. I'm in the middle of reading this article in the NYTimes, about epidemiology, and someone it it suggests there should be a “center for epidemic forecasting.” [they] draw an analogy to institutions like the National Weather Service. “There were a few big storms at the turn of the century with terrible loss of life and also enormous economic consequence, so there was interest at the time in figuring how to predict the weather”
There was a small town in Northern Italy that was able to cut itself off from the rest of the country, but I can't see that happening in a big city.
BTW, while playing around with the World Bank numbers, I noticed that the US doesn't fit into this theory. But I have a theory about that: the index is about perception of governmental effectiveness, and people tend to perceive the US to be more effective relatively to the rest of the world than it is. Just look at how voting works in the US. More like chaos than a well-oiled machine, IMO. Or more relevantly: look at US healthcare, weirdly there are still people who believe it is the best in the world.
posted by mumimor at 4:56 AM on June 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
There was a small town in Northern Italy that was able to cut itself off from the rest of the country, but I can't see that happening in a big city.
There was a small town in Italy
Which managed to isolate literally
[I'm hoping y'all finish this by the time I get back. It's a limerick, obviously.]
posted by clawsoon at 6:42 AM on June 21, 2020 [10 favorites]
There was a small town in Italy
Which managed to isolate literally
[I'm hoping y'all finish this by the time I get back. It's a limerick, obviously.]
posted by clawsoon at 6:42 AM on June 21, 2020 [10 favorites]
In times of pandemic
They said, "Make it systemic
For prevention 'twould be the epitome!"
posted by clawsoon at 6:50 AM on June 21, 2020 [24 favorites]
They said, "Make it systemic
For prevention 'twould be the epitome!"
posted by clawsoon at 6:50 AM on June 21, 2020 [24 favorites]
Australia's federal response to COVID-19 has been totally inept with the bulk of the work being performed by the state premiers. Western Australia might as well have seceded during the COVID-19 crisis because McGowan was basically trying to handle the complete fuckups the coalition was making, the latest being letting the Al Kuwait live export ship dock.
They've been so strict back home and I'm proud of how they've handled things compared to the rest of the world (bar New Zealand of course). Enforced 14-day quarantines for all arrivals bar the few who were going straight back out. Hotels were requisitioned as quarantine zones. All food was provided so that they never left the room for 14 days.
If that was even tried even in blue states like here in Massachusetts there would have been violent revolution. So much of the national psyche is tied up in being a martyr to retain "liberty" even during an emergency. The difference in attitudes between the US/UK and everywhere else has been utterly astounding in the magnitude of selfishness.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:09 AM on June 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
They've been so strict back home and I'm proud of how they've handled things compared to the rest of the world (bar New Zealand of course). Enforced 14-day quarantines for all arrivals bar the few who were going straight back out. Hotels were requisitioned as quarantine zones. All food was provided so that they never left the room for 14 days.
If that was even tried even in blue states like here in Massachusetts there would have been violent revolution. So much of the national psyche is tied up in being a martyr to retain "liberty" even during an emergency. The difference in attitudes between the US/UK and everywhere else has been utterly astounding in the magnitude of selfishness.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:09 AM on June 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
(After much deep thought I've amended the first line to "There once was a small town in Italy".)
posted by clawsoon at 8:24 AM on June 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 8:24 AM on June 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
(Apologies; this post feels like it deserves a much more serious response than my limerick, and I would love a deeper dive into it.)
posted by clawsoon at 2:06 PM on June 21, 2020
posted by clawsoon at 2:06 PM on June 21, 2020
I'm in the middle of reading this article in the NYTimes, about epidemiology, and someone it it suggests there should be a “center for epidemic forecasting.” [they] draw an analogy to institutions like the National Weather Service. “There were a few big storms at the turn of the century with terrible loss of life and also enormous economic consequence, so there was interest at the time in figuring how to predict the weather"Some kind of centre that might forecast and deal with disease control?
posted by jaduncan at 2:31 PM on June 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
Migitation is not easy to sell with the whole truth
The Dutch pandemic response is a masterclass in framing, misleading and even gaslighting.
posted by adamvasco at 4:59 PM on June 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
The Dutch pandemic response is a masterclass in framing, misleading and even gaslighting.
posted by adamvasco at 4:59 PM on June 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
There was a town outside Turin
Where no-one could leave or get in
One citizen, said,
tapping his head,
'Che cazzo, va fuori, e fin'
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 8:48 PM on June 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
Where no-one could leave or get in
One citizen, said,
tapping his head,
'Che cazzo, va fuori, e fin'
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 8:48 PM on June 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
Migitation is not easy to sell with the whole truth
The Dutch pandemic response is a masterclass in framing, misleading and even gaslighting.
So, similar to the Swedish approach, but with more lies? I had to read the article twice to get how they didn't have overburdened hospitals: they just don't admit the sick.
posted by mumimor at 11:49 PM on June 21, 2020
The Dutch pandemic response is a masterclass in framing, misleading and even gaslighting.
So, similar to the Swedish approach, but with more lies? I had to read the article twice to get how they didn't have overburdened hospitals: they just don't admit the sick.
posted by mumimor at 11:49 PM on June 21, 2020
Is this the new corona virus thread since the last European one closed?
posted by LizBoBiz at 12:27 AM on June 22, 2020
posted by LizBoBiz at 12:27 AM on June 22, 2020
Activists against mass death resorted to excess mortality statistics, which showed about 10,000 people had died of Covid. This put the Netherlands in shared third place worldwide, according to the New York Times. That didn’t look good, so now the excess mortality statistics have been changed to an arcane formula that has already “saved” some 2,000 excess deaths. This happened after the directors of the Ministry, the CBS statistical agency and the Sanquin research group (carrying out Herd Immunity tracking) swapped positions. Which is a coincidence.
I'm not sure what to make of this. Are they saying that the excess mortality, calculated as all people dying of all causes, in or out of hospital, is being fudged? Thats a strong statement to make. And their only backing is some insinuation that CBS and Sanquin are conspiring to cook numbers (sure they trade execs but...).
The stats are here, btw, published weekly.
posted by vacapinta at 11:48 AM on June 22, 2020
I'm not sure what to make of this. Are they saying that the excess mortality, calculated as all people dying of all causes, in or out of hospital, is being fudged? Thats a strong statement to make. And their only backing is some insinuation that CBS and Sanquin are conspiring to cook numbers (sure they trade execs but...).
The stats are here, btw, published weekly.
posted by vacapinta at 11:48 AM on June 22, 2020
The Dutch pandemic response is a masterclass in framing, misleading and even gaslighting.
That's not a very Dutch sentiment, as the author readily admits. As a Dutchman, I must admit it rubs me the wrong way.
His article contains some bad faith arguments, for instance about testing less to hide the true death toll. The excess death rate in NL is comparable to that of Belgium. I find it hard to believe that the Dutch government is so ignorant of it own workings that it decides hiding cases is good strategy.
I can agree that the early Dutch response was wrong: In februari, millions went to Austria for skiing, and to the Southern NL for Carnival. Both are basically 6 days of drunken debauchery in extremely crowded bars. If they had forbidden the festivities, we'd see a death toll comparable to Germany and Denmark.
posted by Psychnic at 12:51 PM on June 22, 2020
That's not a very Dutch sentiment, as the author readily admits. As a Dutchman, I must admit it rubs me the wrong way.
His article contains some bad faith arguments, for instance about testing less to hide the true death toll. The excess death rate in NL is comparable to that of Belgium. I find it hard to believe that the Dutch government is so ignorant of it own workings that it decides hiding cases is good strategy.
I can agree that the early Dutch response was wrong: In februari, millions went to Austria for skiing, and to the Southern NL for Carnival. Both are basically 6 days of drunken debauchery in extremely crowded bars. If they had forbidden the festivities, we'd see a death toll comparable to Germany and Denmark.
posted by Psychnic at 12:51 PM on June 22, 2020
Would the death toll be comparable to Germany? Germany is closer to Austria and Italy, so there was still a ton of skiing going on through the end of February (it is suspected that a certain ski lodge in Italy was the source of the south German outbreak, or the other way around that a German or two brought it to Italy through that ski location). Germany also did not cancel Carnival anywhere and there were massive parties for the whole week. There were no advisories about traveling to Carnival and we even made jokes with other partiers about corona at the time.
Interesting that one of the hardest hit German states (by # of cases) actually borders the Netherlands (and is also one of the biggest states for Carnival, the other hardest hit German state borders Austria and Italy).
What is different between Germany and the Netherlands has to do with something other than skiing and carnival as those things were open to Germans as well and they participated fully as if there was not a pandemic coming.
posted by LizBoBiz at 12:25 AM on June 23, 2020
Interesting that one of the hardest hit German states (by # of cases) actually borders the Netherlands (and is also one of the biggest states for Carnival, the other hardest hit German state borders Austria and Italy).
What is different between Germany and the Netherlands has to do with something other than skiing and carnival as those things were open to Germans as well and they participated fully as if there was not a pandemic coming.
posted by LizBoBiz at 12:25 AM on June 23, 2020
apropos government efficiency:
Clean water should be an American human right, not a government profit machine
By Bernie Sanders and Brenda Lawrence in The Guardian
posted by mumimor at 3:49 AM on June 23, 2020
Clean water should be an American human right, not a government profit machine
By Bernie Sanders and Brenda Lawrence in The Guardian
posted by mumimor at 3:49 AM on June 23, 2020
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posted by mumimor at 3:15 AM on June 21, 2020 [1 favorite]