How to reopen schools safely
July 10, 2020 11:32 AM Subscribe
Many schools have been shut down to limit the spread of the Covid-19 pandemic, forcing parents to quit their jobs (if they work outside the home), or to juggle child care and distance learning while working from home. How can schools be reopened safely? Eight Steps to Reopen Schools, by a former CDC head and two former US secretaries of education.
The Economist: When easing lockdowns, governments should open schools first.
Vox: Reopening schools safely is going to take much more federal leadership. In the US, state and local governments can't borrow money, so without federal aid, school spending will be slashed. "America’s entire education system is teetering on the brink of catastrophe."
In Canada: Make safe return to school a priority, expert urges Ontario. Lauren Dobson-Hughes notes that the current uncertainty has the most impact on women and disadvantaged families.
The Economist: When easing lockdowns, governments should open schools first.
Vox: Reopening schools safely is going to take much more federal leadership. In the US, state and local governments can't borrow money, so without federal aid, school spending will be slashed. "America’s entire education system is teetering on the brink of catastrophe."
In Canada: Make safe return to school a priority, expert urges Ontario. Lauren Dobson-Hughes notes that the current uncertainty has the most impact on women and disadvantaged families.
Here in my area (South Jordan, Utah) they've decided to reopen almost as normal, consequences be damned. They're having 4 normal days with Friday as "flex learning" (??). No social distancing in classrooms. The governor only yesterday made masks in K-12 mandatory (doesn't apply to private schools) statewide. I'm so glad I don't have a child to make the decision about how to deal with this in 5 weeks time. Parents of means in my area are forming home school co-ops where each parent takes a day to teach. Even more of a joke is that they are providing staff with one item of PPE. If they want more, they have been instructed to procure it themselves. I sent a teacher friend some face shields since they couldn't find any that would get delivered before school starts. They have no plans for what happens when a teacher is exposed. Do they quarantine for 2 weeks? Do their students? What happens when a student's family is sick or exposed? What happens when someone tests positive? The whole thing is being forced on a dream that kids will wear masks for hours on end and remain socially distant, and that sickness will be manageable. I give it a few weeks before the whole thing gets scrapped and redone.
posted by msbutah at 11:57 AM on July 10, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by msbutah at 11:57 AM on July 10, 2020 [9 favorites]
I'm sure this crew was great at the CDC, did good work, whatever, but most of this advice is not very good or very actionable given budget constraints, building constraints, number of teachers and staff. It's like these people have never been to a public school I have been to or was a student in. I don't get why they would issue official advice that most schools can't comply with and will just piss parents off.
"by keeping hallway doors open" Kids are loud. Classes can be loud, with video and audio presentations. That's why old schools had transom windows (windows above doors), but newer ones don't tend to have those.
"Cafeterias may need to close, with students instead eating in classrooms." This seems to misunderstand the size of classrooms vs the size of cafeteria, vs teachers having to deal with mess. How about capacity rules for the cafeteria be changed, if classes are more contained, as recommended below?
"Others may need to be modified—libraries will likely need capacity restrictions." libraries already have capacity restrictions. Kids already go to the library by class, not by grade at the younger levels. Libraries are larger than individual class-rooms.
"Recess and physical-education classes are possible if students play outdoors in small groups, wear masks, and observe physical-distancing guidelines." This seems smart in theory but not at all aligned with PPE budget. Like my school has already stated that students will be provided one mask for the entire year by the school. Every elementary school kid who spends 5 minutes outside running around will need a new mask by the end of PE or recess everyday. And elementary school kids don't do well if they are not allowed recess.
"Fifth, reduce mixing among students and staff. Divide students into smaller cohorts, or pods, that stay together throughout the day, rather than mixing and re-forming different class units"
You mean like classes within grades? That involves completely re-doing the entire concept of jr high and high school, where teachers are specialized.
"Schools can alleviate overcrowding by moving to a split-shift schedule (incorporating morning and afternoon sessions) or by alternating students between in-person and remote learning."
Well sure, but the reason we are opening in the first place is so parents can go back to work. Split shifts don't really help with that.
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:03 PM on July 10, 2020 [26 favorites]
"by keeping hallway doors open" Kids are loud. Classes can be loud, with video and audio presentations. That's why old schools had transom windows (windows above doors), but newer ones don't tend to have those.
"Cafeterias may need to close, with students instead eating in classrooms." This seems to misunderstand the size of classrooms vs the size of cafeteria, vs teachers having to deal with mess. How about capacity rules for the cafeteria be changed, if classes are more contained, as recommended below?
"Others may need to be modified—libraries will likely need capacity restrictions." libraries already have capacity restrictions. Kids already go to the library by class, not by grade at the younger levels. Libraries are larger than individual class-rooms.
"Recess and physical-education classes are possible if students play outdoors in small groups, wear masks, and observe physical-distancing guidelines." This seems smart in theory but not at all aligned with PPE budget. Like my school has already stated that students will be provided one mask for the entire year by the school. Every elementary school kid who spends 5 minutes outside running around will need a new mask by the end of PE or recess everyday. And elementary school kids don't do well if they are not allowed recess.
"Fifth, reduce mixing among students and staff. Divide students into smaller cohorts, or pods, that stay together throughout the day, rather than mixing and re-forming different class units"
You mean like classes within grades? That involves completely re-doing the entire concept of jr high and high school, where teachers are specialized.
"Schools can alleviate overcrowding by moving to a split-shift schedule (incorporating morning and afternoon sessions) or by alternating students between in-person and remote learning."
Well sure, but the reason we are opening in the first place is so parents can go back to work. Split shifts don't really help with that.
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:03 PM on July 10, 2020 [26 favorites]
Not a former secretary of education here, nor have I ever worked for the CDC. I am, however, an experienced former K-12 classroom teacher.
The thought of trying to manage students at any of those levels through the steps of going to school in these conditions is enough to send me screaming inside for hours. Parents are in a horrible bind and kids really do need to be in school. No argument there. I also think one of the elephants in the room here is that most teachers are in the same situation as a lot of food service and retail workers, too: they're paid too little to have any option beyond going back to work, regardless of how dangerous it will be for them.
We're not seeing the sort of money for schools necessary to implement even the conditions proposed in the first article. This is a "do more with less" nightmare that will inevitably cost lives.
And to be real blunt: the proposals I keep seeing aren't taking the stress and trauma this will inflict on students seriously. I keep thinking about all the bullshit power struggles I had for years because administrators pushed me to fight kids over their cell phones (and then the admin gave up on it). I think of all the freak-outs and escalating conflicts... and this is about masks and distancing to keep kids safe, when they're gonna be tense and stressed and scared. I also think about managing lockdowns for shooters--only precautions and drills in my case, but the weight of those moments is awful. This will be similar, but daily. Ongoing.
And the kids who lose someone to covid will wonder if it came through them for the rest of their lives.
I fully respect that parents are in an awful, awful bind and that kids need to be in school, and I don't think either of those truths overcome the insanity of reopening our schools with things the way they stand now.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:03 PM on July 10, 2020 [46 favorites]
The thought of trying to manage students at any of those levels through the steps of going to school in these conditions is enough to send me screaming inside for hours. Parents are in a horrible bind and kids really do need to be in school. No argument there. I also think one of the elephants in the room here is that most teachers are in the same situation as a lot of food service and retail workers, too: they're paid too little to have any option beyond going back to work, regardless of how dangerous it will be for them.
We're not seeing the sort of money for schools necessary to implement even the conditions proposed in the first article. This is a "do more with less" nightmare that will inevitably cost lives.
And to be real blunt: the proposals I keep seeing aren't taking the stress and trauma this will inflict on students seriously. I keep thinking about all the bullshit power struggles I had for years because administrators pushed me to fight kids over their cell phones (and then the admin gave up on it). I think of all the freak-outs and escalating conflicts... and this is about masks and distancing to keep kids safe, when they're gonna be tense and stressed and scared. I also think about managing lockdowns for shooters--only precautions and drills in my case, but the weight of those moments is awful. This will be similar, but daily. Ongoing.
And the kids who lose someone to covid will wonder if it came through them for the rest of their lives.
I fully respect that parents are in an awful, awful bind and that kids need to be in school, and I don't think either of those truths overcome the insanity of reopening our schools with things the way they stand now.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:03 PM on July 10, 2020 [46 favorites]
Also, there's mounting evidence that the virus may be transmitted by aerosols, not just airborne droplets, which further complicates a lot of individual school buildings that have poor ventilation and no windows.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:07 PM on July 10, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:07 PM on July 10, 2020 [8 favorites]
Going through that first article, I continue to be frustrated with the framing that "children are safer than adults, so it's okay." They point toward making it possible for at-risk staff to work remotely...how does a classroom teacher work remotely when kids are in school? And singing happens in a lot of Kinder classrooms, as well as high school choirs.
On the kids wearing masks issue: I don't trust families to not do stupid shit, and we will 100% have kids coming in saying "my dad says I don't have to wear a mask." Enforcement is my big concern, and for staff as well. We've had teachers who have been vocally skeptical of the precautions.
Split shift doesn't work unless you have a lot of spare capacity in your transportation system, and a way to get lunch safely to both halves of the student body. Which is to say, split shift doesn't work.
There is functionally nowhere in the country you can count on being able to have classes outdoors. I live in Hawaii. If anywhere were going to be able to do that, you'd think it would be here, but we get rain, and I would 100% file a skin cancer-related greivance if I were expected to be outdoors unprotected for hours a day.
Any classroom with a reported case will need to be thoroughly disinfected and, if necessary, closed temporarily. If necessary? When would it not be? This is a bullshit out of a qualifier (which my schools are similarly using)
Alright, back to the other articles...
posted by DebetEsse at 12:07 PM on July 10, 2020 [14 favorites]
On the kids wearing masks issue: I don't trust families to not do stupid shit, and we will 100% have kids coming in saying "my dad says I don't have to wear a mask." Enforcement is my big concern, and for staff as well. We've had teachers who have been vocally skeptical of the precautions.
Split shift doesn't work unless you have a lot of spare capacity in your transportation system, and a way to get lunch safely to both halves of the student body. Which is to say, split shift doesn't work.
There is functionally nowhere in the country you can count on being able to have classes outdoors. I live in Hawaii. If anywhere were going to be able to do that, you'd think it would be here, but we get rain, and I would 100% file a skin cancer-related greivance if I were expected to be outdoors unprotected for hours a day.
Any classroom with a reported case will need to be thoroughly disinfected and, if necessary, closed temporarily. If necessary? When would it not be? This is a bullshit out of a qualifier (which my schools are similarly using)
Alright, back to the other articles...
posted by DebetEsse at 12:07 PM on July 10, 2020 [14 favorites]
Well they got step 8 right: Prepare for cases.
I'm not in education but from the few times I've been in schools I've observed the better the school the less what is called now "social distancing", actually my strongest memory is wow just like a box of puppies all piled all over and having a great time.
Can we indulge a thought experiment: turn all the schools into boarding schools, hire teachers that have full antibody immunity and just do a year of everyone away from home and far from the 'olds' and at risk communities.
posted by sammyo at 12:17 PM on July 10, 2020
I'm not in education but from the few times I've been in schools I've observed the better the school the less what is called now "social distancing", actually my strongest memory is wow just like a box of puppies all piled all over and having a great time.
Can we indulge a thought experiment: turn all the schools into boarding schools, hire teachers that have full antibody immunity and just do a year of everyone away from home and far from the 'olds' and at risk communities.
posted by sammyo at 12:17 PM on July 10, 2020
The real question is what will happen when multiple teacher's unions go on strike because of a lack of PPE and insufficient changes to school protocols? Because it will happen.
posted by GuyZero at 12:19 PM on July 10, 2020 [17 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 12:19 PM on July 10, 2020 [17 favorites]
The very first step in the lead article says "Children, older staff, and those who have underlying health conditions that put them at high risk should not return to school in person unless there is little or no community transmission," which given where the U.S. is right now, and the absolute unlikelihood that community transmission will be contained by fall, seems like it renders the rest of the article kind of hypothetical?
posted by the turtle's teeth at 12:22 PM on July 10, 2020 [15 favorites]
posted by the turtle's teeth at 12:22 PM on July 10, 2020 [15 favorites]
We should remember the driving reasons we're in this mess, too: we have a president who decided to do basically fuck-all nothing when this started, and now he & his regime believe the illusion of a recovery will get them re-elected. They want that, no matter who it kills, and they also want it without spending any real money or effort on it, because fuck everyone for ever doubting Dear Leader in the first place.
Faced with that inevitability of Republican governors demanding schools reopen, way too many people who should know better are resigning themselves to it like it's inevitable and trying to come up with ways to make the best of it when they should be fighting and giving zero ground on it instead.
I agree with GuyZero, btw. This is real easy for me to say 'cause I'm not teaching anymore, but the best thing teachers' unions could do right now is make strike plans.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:25 PM on July 10, 2020 [32 favorites]
Faced with that inevitability of Republican governors demanding schools reopen, way too many people who should know better are resigning themselves to it like it's inevitable and trying to come up with ways to make the best of it when they should be fighting and giving zero ground on it instead.
I agree with GuyZero, btw. This is real easy for me to say 'cause I'm not teaching anymore, but the best thing teachers' unions could do right now is make strike plans.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:25 PM on July 10, 2020 [32 favorites]
I don't get why they would issue official advice that most schools can't comply with and will just piss parents off.
Because our civic religion has decreed We Must Open The Schools, and it's the job of priests to deliver the holy commandments, not figure out how to follow them. These people seem to understand their role in society as Offering The Benefit Of Their Expertise, and by the good green earth they are going to Offer it, useful or not.
posted by PMdixon at 12:25 PM on July 10, 2020 [5 favorites]
Because our civic religion has decreed We Must Open The Schools, and it's the job of priests to deliver the holy commandments, not figure out how to follow them. These people seem to understand their role in society as Offering The Benefit Of Their Expertise, and by the good green earth they are going to Offer it, useful or not.
posted by PMdixon at 12:25 PM on July 10, 2020 [5 favorites]
This makes me so full of rage. I don't think Arne "Charter Schools are the best schools" Duncan and Margaret "No Child Left Behind" Spellings, the two former Secretaries of Education, should be trusted to understand the needs of public schools. Neither of them has ever been in the classroom. Both of them championed racist, ableist policies that put greater burdens on families with fewer resources, while systematically undervaluing the work of educators; creating school environments that resemble prisons; and drastically reducing the amount of instruction and support. Fuck them. Fuck their recommendations. In the US, opening schools would/will be a disaster.
Schools need a huge investment to make this feasible at any point. But the federal government should focus right now on paying folks to stay home so we can get the rate of infection down everywhere. Then we can start some of the mitigation efforts that should have begun in early March (contact tracing, quarantine, wide and strategic testing). Once those things are established all over the country, we can talk seriously about reopening schools.
posted by kaelynski at 12:28 PM on July 10, 2020 [21 favorites]
Schools need a huge investment to make this feasible at any point. But the federal government should focus right now on paying folks to stay home so we can get the rate of infection down everywhere. Then we can start some of the mitigation efforts that should have begun in early March (contact tracing, quarantine, wide and strategic testing). Once those things are established all over the country, we can talk seriously about reopening schools.
posted by kaelynski at 12:28 PM on July 10, 2020 [21 favorites]
A good friend of mine drives a bus for one of the wealthier suburban towns near Indy. He's scared shitless over the prospect of the schools re-opening right now. There's no way in hell they can make the buses safe, especially for the drivers. It's like driving around in a big yellow petri dish in the best of times, but right now it feels like it would be suicide to him.
He's only a couple of years from getting his full retirement, but he's seriously thinking about saying "screw it" and walking away if they do re-open. The town is overwhelmingly republican and Trump-friendly, so there's a good chance school will re-open in a few weeks.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:31 PM on July 10, 2020 [15 favorites]
He's only a couple of years from getting his full retirement, but he's seriously thinking about saying "screw it" and walking away if they do re-open. The town is overwhelmingly republican and Trump-friendly, so there's a good chance school will re-open in a few weeks.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:31 PM on July 10, 2020 [15 favorites]
The original sin of the schooling problem was the decision to move ahead with indoor eating and drinking rather than focus on suppression and relaunching education.
Fucking THIS. This is what I have been saying for months. Choices have consequences, assholes, and you don't get to prioritize restaurants and haircuts and then be shocked when schools can't open.
posted by DebetEsse at 12:32 PM on July 10, 2020 [49 favorites]
Fucking THIS. This is what I have been saying for months. Choices have consequences, assholes, and you don't get to prioritize restaurants and haircuts and then be shocked when schools can't open.
posted by DebetEsse at 12:32 PM on July 10, 2020 [49 favorites]
And the kids who lose someone to covid will wonder if it came through them for the rest of their lives.
That’s one of the most chilling thoughts I’ve read about this. Thank you for being a teacher, that level of empathy with the students probably isn’t apparent to non-educators.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:37 PM on July 10, 2020 [43 favorites]
That’s one of the most chilling thoughts I’ve read about this. Thank you for being a teacher, that level of empathy with the students probably isn’t apparent to non-educators.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:37 PM on July 10, 2020 [43 favorites]
Everything is on pause until this virus either peters out or is manageable. Everything. There is no way to mitigate it. We are going to lose years of schooling and everything is going to change and regress. We are in a collective state of denial if we think anything is going to back to normal for the next who knows how many years. Things have permanently changed.
posted by grumpybear69 at 12:39 PM on July 10, 2020 [14 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 12:39 PM on July 10, 2020 [14 favorites]
What I do not understand is what happens if they do not open schools. Distant learning is certainly not a viable alternative for most students. It is not a viable alternative for most parents, care givers, or anyone in the household.
The people keeping schools closed affects the most are the poor, the disadvantaged. They are generally ill equipped to provide a learning environment at home. Many if not most need to go to work. Leaving an elementary school child at home alone all day is not an option.
We are damned if we open and damned if we don't.
posted by AugustWest at 12:40 PM on July 10, 2020 [9 favorites]
The people keeping schools closed affects the most are the poor, the disadvantaged. They are generally ill equipped to provide a learning environment at home. Many if not most need to go to work. Leaving an elementary school child at home alone all day is not an option.
We are damned if we open and damned if we don't.
posted by AugustWest at 12:40 PM on July 10, 2020 [9 favorites]
There is no way to mitigate it.
Extensive testing, contact tracing, and quarantine. It works. The United States should try it.
Daily or even weekly testing of all students and teachers would go a long way towards mitigating risk. It’s not perfect, but it is capable of vastly reducing spread.
It looks like it won’t even be attempted, though.
posted by mr_roboto at 12:46 PM on July 10, 2020 [12 favorites]
Extensive testing, contact tracing, and quarantine. It works. The United States should try it.
Daily or even weekly testing of all students and teachers would go a long way towards mitigating risk. It’s not perfect, but it is capable of vastly reducing spread.
It looks like it won’t even be attempted, though.
posted by mr_roboto at 12:46 PM on July 10, 2020 [12 favorites]
The thing is... opening schools when it's clearly not safe to do so will also have the worst effects on the poor and disadvantaged. They will be forced into a no-win position where they have to send their kids back to school, knowing it's not safe, knowing they're risking their kids and their families, because they have to work and they have no other choice.
Meanwhile, those with economic privilege will be able to choose to have a stay at home parent or hire a nanny or otherwise solve the problem with money.
The Trump administration is willing to make this deadly gamble with schools because they know that it's just another way that marginalized communities will bear the worst effects of the virus. People are going to suffer horribly and that suffering will not be evenly distributed. It's heinous.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 12:48 PM on July 10, 2020 [29 favorites]
Meanwhile, those with economic privilege will be able to choose to have a stay at home parent or hire a nanny or otherwise solve the problem with money.
The Trump administration is willing to make this deadly gamble with schools because they know that it's just another way that marginalized communities will bear the worst effects of the virus. People are going to suffer horribly and that suffering will not be evenly distributed. It's heinous.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 12:48 PM on July 10, 2020 [29 favorites]
The Trump administration is willing to make this deadly gamble with schools because they know that it's just another way that marginalized communities will bear the worst effects of the virus.
I think you’re flattering Donald Trump to imagine he can even think this far, or comprehend chains of events this complex, or even to imagine disadvantaged people exist in the real world. The entire though process is: “Election in November. Need schools open before election!”
posted by mr_roboto at 12:52 PM on July 10, 2020 [12 favorites]
I think you’re flattering Donald Trump to imagine he can even think this far, or comprehend chains of events this complex, or even to imagine disadvantaged people exist in the real world. The entire though process is: “Election in November. Need schools open before election!”
posted by mr_roboto at 12:52 PM on July 10, 2020 [12 favorites]
It looks like it won’t even be attempted, though.
That's correct. So we need plan B, and if that's "we need a general strike for sheer safety," better we figure that out now.
posted by PMdixon at 12:54 PM on July 10, 2020 [6 favorites]
That's correct. So we need plan B, and if that's "we need a general strike for sheer safety," better we figure that out now.
posted by PMdixon at 12:54 PM on July 10, 2020 [6 favorites]
Capitalism has the country over a barrel, PMdixon. There’s no social safety net, working-class people who have savings have already spent them down, small businesses are shuttering, and rent is due on August 1st. People who don’t work will be evicted. Or starve. Or both.
posted by mr_roboto at 1:04 PM on July 10, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by mr_roboto at 1:04 PM on July 10, 2020 [6 favorites]
I think you’re flattering Donald Trump to imagine he can even think
Yes. That's why I said the Trump administration. While he may not be capable of pursuing an agenda beyond his own narcissistic impulses, his administration does have a clear agenda, and it's an explicitly white supremacist one. And I believe that's a not-negligible factor in their push to re-open public schools.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 1:08 PM on July 10, 2020 [15 favorites]
Yes. That's why I said the Trump administration. While he may not be capable of pursuing an agenda beyond his own narcissistic impulses, his administration does have a clear agenda, and it's an explicitly white supremacist one. And I believe that's a not-negligible factor in their push to re-open public schools.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 1:08 PM on July 10, 2020 [15 favorites]
People who don’t work will be evicted. Or starve. Or both.
This is also true of people who don't work because they are sick or because their local economy has collapsed due to an inability to establish basic public health.
posted by PMdixon at 1:21 PM on July 10, 2020 [3 favorites]
This is also true of people who don't work because they are sick or because their local economy has collapsed due to an inability to establish basic public health.
posted by PMdixon at 1:21 PM on July 10, 2020 [3 favorites]
Part of my ongoing trauma from this period of time is from the constant waffling "it's ok!"/"it's NOT ok!" in my head, and that includes the fall and Little Purr. I so viscerally NEED Little Purr to be in school for a little bit- they are bright, social and engaged, but has essentially plugged into Netflix/PBS kids shows all day since May. If they aren't distracted by shows, they're directly trying to engage Big Purr or me all day, and although we are teleworking ok, I know my work is not getting the attention it needs, which can't go on for a full year. Plus, Little Purr can't just socialize with us- they need to interact with other kids, and use social pressure to learn things from a teacher. They NEED the teacher figure that we can't be.
But I understand that our area isn't doing contact tracing correctly, and the 7-day moving average of new cases is ticking back up again. I don't want our kids or teachers to get sick! They should not be in class 5 days a week! So far it seems like our school administration is taking it seriously, providing options of a hybrid 2 days a week in school or teleschool full time, requiring and giving out masks, setting up free internet connections for low-income households and having dedicated teleschool teachers (which makes a lot of sense in our large district). It also helps that it's a very concentrated area, so walking/biking is encouraged over buses. I'd also love for a relaxation of the regular curriculum so the young kids could spend a lot more time outside doing projects during good weather, but I doubt the rest of the state would allow that. I'm ok with the current school model since it seems like that's the way to spread out kids in capacity rooms, but I am also not an epidemiologist or a teacher, and can be convinced (unhappily) that we should go straight to teleschool in the fall. Luckily, Little Purr has been excellent with mask wearing, so I'm pretty sure they'll be ok during the school day.
What simply enrages me is that there is apparently a group in our community who is calling for 5-day in school education, because otherwise their [precious, type-A] kids will fall behind. I don't doubt that kids with IEPs and needs for special education and support would perform much better with in person aides and direct teacher support, but their arguments said nothing about racial justice, supporting single or 2 parent working households, or encouraging additional resources for alternative learning, just the "open all the way" rhetoric put out by the administration. And this is a liberal area! I'm assuming that they would send in their kids with masks, but it still reeks of "we can make it low risk/not a big deal" and "my special snowflake needs in person teaching". Hey people, this is an ongoing trauma situation- ALL OF OUR KIDS ARE GOING TO BE BEHIND, AND WE SHOULD BE SPENDING TIME AND ATTENTION TO GET UNDERSERVED KIDS ADDITIONAL HELP, NOT YOUR PRIVILEGED KID WHO HAS AFFLUENT PARENTS WHO CAN COMPLAIN TO THE SCHOOL ADMINISTRATION AND EXPECT TO BE HEARD
*whew*
Anyway, I think in the fall Big Purr and I will have to redo our our work schedules in the fall so that one is an "on-duty" teacher during the teleschooling hours, but when we both have meetings? *shrug* We are so privileged not to have lost income while sheltering in place, but it is incredibly stressful to have to weigh Little Purr's social and educational development vs. community safety. My heart also aches for all those kids out there that don't have the parents willing or able to provide that additional support, and for those where school is a refuge.
Plus, teachers are amazing and should be paid & supported so much more than they are. THANK YOU TEACHERS!
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 1:35 PM on July 10, 2020 [15 favorites]
But I understand that our area isn't doing contact tracing correctly, and the 7-day moving average of new cases is ticking back up again. I don't want our kids or teachers to get sick! They should not be in class 5 days a week! So far it seems like our school administration is taking it seriously, providing options of a hybrid 2 days a week in school or teleschool full time, requiring and giving out masks, setting up free internet connections for low-income households and having dedicated teleschool teachers (which makes a lot of sense in our large district). It also helps that it's a very concentrated area, so walking/biking is encouraged over buses. I'd also love for a relaxation of the regular curriculum so the young kids could spend a lot more time outside doing projects during good weather, but I doubt the rest of the state would allow that. I'm ok with the current school model since it seems like that's the way to spread out kids in capacity rooms, but I am also not an epidemiologist or a teacher, and can be convinced (unhappily) that we should go straight to teleschool in the fall. Luckily, Little Purr has been excellent with mask wearing, so I'm pretty sure they'll be ok during the school day.
What simply enrages me is that there is apparently a group in our community who is calling for 5-day in school education, because otherwise their [precious, type-A] kids will fall behind. I don't doubt that kids with IEPs and needs for special education and support would perform much better with in person aides and direct teacher support, but their arguments said nothing about racial justice, supporting single or 2 parent working households, or encouraging additional resources for alternative learning, just the "open all the way" rhetoric put out by the administration. And this is a liberal area! I'm assuming that they would send in their kids with masks, but it still reeks of "we can make it low risk/not a big deal" and "my special snowflake needs in person teaching". Hey people, this is an ongoing trauma situation- ALL OF OUR KIDS ARE GOING TO BE BEHIND, AND WE SHOULD BE SPENDING TIME AND ATTENTION TO GET UNDERSERVED KIDS ADDITIONAL HELP, NOT YOUR PRIVILEGED KID WHO HAS AFFLUENT PARENTS WHO CAN COMPLAIN TO THE SCHOOL ADMINISTRATION AND EXPECT TO BE HEARD
*whew*
Anyway, I think in the fall Big Purr and I will have to redo our our work schedules in the fall so that one is an "on-duty" teacher during the teleschooling hours, but when we both have meetings? *shrug* We are so privileged not to have lost income while sheltering in place, but it is incredibly stressful to have to weigh Little Purr's social and educational development vs. community safety. My heart also aches for all those kids out there that don't have the parents willing or able to provide that additional support, and for those where school is a refuge.
Plus, teachers are amazing and should be paid & supported so much more than they are. THANK YOU TEACHERS!
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 1:35 PM on July 10, 2020 [15 favorites]
I don't doubt that kids with IEPs and needs for special education and support would perform much better with in person aides and direct teacher support, but their arguments said nothing about racial justice, supporting single or 2 parent working households, or encouraging additional resources for alternative learning,
My wife is a high school "special ed" teacher whose board has still not provided guidance on what will happen this fall. And I don't know what other boards are like, but it's likely her school will have in-person classes for kids with IEPs and there is a strong, direct correlation between IEPs and minority, lower-income kids, especially latinx kids. (heck, just latino kids for that matter. there are all kinds of kids in basic but if you wanted to pick one majority group, it's latino boys).
One one hand it's good that these kids will have the support they need as there have been issues with attendance and access to the internet for remote learning. Thankfully her school has a 1:1 Chromebook policy. But at the same time, lower-income latinx families are one of the groups more heavily hit by covid-19 which makes having strong distancing protocols and sufficient PPE an even bigger deal. The high needs kids in the life skills programs are the ones who will be hardest hit if schools don't reopen imo.
Anyway, there's a very strong correlation between supporting kids with IEPs and racial and economic justice, at least in our local schools.
posted by GuyZero at 1:45 PM on July 10, 2020 [8 favorites]
My wife is a high school "special ed" teacher whose board has still not provided guidance on what will happen this fall. And I don't know what other boards are like, but it's likely her school will have in-person classes for kids with IEPs and there is a strong, direct correlation between IEPs and minority, lower-income kids, especially latinx kids. (heck, just latino kids for that matter. there are all kinds of kids in basic but if you wanted to pick one majority group, it's latino boys).
One one hand it's good that these kids will have the support they need as there have been issues with attendance and access to the internet for remote learning. Thankfully her school has a 1:1 Chromebook policy. But at the same time, lower-income latinx families are one of the groups more heavily hit by covid-19 which makes having strong distancing protocols and sufficient PPE an even bigger deal. The high needs kids in the life skills programs are the ones who will be hardest hit if schools don't reopen imo.
Anyway, there's a very strong correlation between supporting kids with IEPs and racial and economic justice, at least in our local schools.
posted by GuyZero at 1:45 PM on July 10, 2020 [8 favorites]
> Los Angeles teachers union says students should stay home when classes start (WaPo live blog) "The district should “refocus on robust distance learning practices” in the fall, United Teachers Los Angeles (UTLA) said in a statement. “It is time to take a stand against Trump’s dangerous, anti-science agenda that puts the lives of our members, our students, and our families at risk,” union President Cecily Myart-Cruz said.", Medical group cited by Trump denounces school funding threat (AP) "In a joint statement with national education unions and a superintendents group, the American Academy of Pediatrics on Friday said decisions should be made by health experts and local leaders. The groups argued that schools will need more money to reopen safely during the coronavirus pandemic and that cuts could ultimately harm students. [...] “Public health agencies must make recommendations based on evidence, not politics,” the groups wrote in the statement."
> "Randi Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers, told NBC: “Those of us who have spent our lives teaching kids are not going to take a risk with kids or with our members’ lives [but] if [teachers] had the proper safeguards, they want to be in classrooms.” If schools reopen without necessary safeguards, Weingarten said, “we’re going to have a lot of [teachers] retire early, quit, take a leave. So, at the very same time that kids need these experienced teachers … we’re going to see a huge brain drain in the next few weeks.”"
> "At the Harvard Global Health Institute [...] researchers recently put together a national tracker to assess the severity of the outbreak in all 50 states. As of Thursday, 15 of them were in a state of “accelerated spread,” meaning that stay-at-home orders should at least be considered, along with aggressive testing and tracing programs. Another five — Arizona, Florida, Louisiana, South Carolina and Georgia — were flashing red. In those states, the outbreaks are so advanced that researchers say stay-at-home measures are no longer optional. They should be mandatory."
> ‘People can’t ignore it anymore’: Across the country, minorities hit hardest by pandemic (Politico, Jul. 8, 2020), > ‘So much worse than I ever thought it would be’: Virus cases skyrocketing among Latinos (Politico, Jun. 18, 2020)
> Trump administration’s approach to testing is chaotic and unhelpful, states say (WaPo / SFGate reprint)
> States scramble to contain Covid spikes without enough workers to track outbreaks (Politico)
> Under pressure from scientists globally, the W.H.O. acknowledges that the virus can linger in the air indoors. (NYT live blog)
> With pressure and threats, Trump pushes to fully reopen schools. Schools say: Not so fast. (WaPo)
posted by katra at 1:54 PM on July 10, 2020 [4 favorites]
> "Randi Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers, told NBC: “Those of us who have spent our lives teaching kids are not going to take a risk with kids or with our members’ lives [but] if [teachers] had the proper safeguards, they want to be in classrooms.” If schools reopen without necessary safeguards, Weingarten said, “we’re going to have a lot of [teachers] retire early, quit, take a leave. So, at the very same time that kids need these experienced teachers … we’re going to see a huge brain drain in the next few weeks.”"
> "At the Harvard Global Health Institute [...] researchers recently put together a national tracker to assess the severity of the outbreak in all 50 states. As of Thursday, 15 of them were in a state of “accelerated spread,” meaning that stay-at-home orders should at least be considered, along with aggressive testing and tracing programs. Another five — Arizona, Florida, Louisiana, South Carolina and Georgia — were flashing red. In those states, the outbreaks are so advanced that researchers say stay-at-home measures are no longer optional. They should be mandatory."
> ‘People can’t ignore it anymore’: Across the country, minorities hit hardest by pandemic (Politico, Jul. 8, 2020), > ‘So much worse than I ever thought it would be’: Virus cases skyrocketing among Latinos (Politico, Jun. 18, 2020)
> Trump administration’s approach to testing is chaotic and unhelpful, states say (WaPo / SFGate reprint)
> States scramble to contain Covid spikes without enough workers to track outbreaks (Politico)
> Under pressure from scientists globally, the W.H.O. acknowledges that the virus can linger in the air indoors. (NYT live blog)
> With pressure and threats, Trump pushes to fully reopen schools. Schools say: Not so fast. (WaPo)
posted by katra at 1:54 PM on July 10, 2020 [4 favorites]
The_Vegetables: I'm sure this crew was great at the CDC, did good work, whatever, but most of this advice is not very good or very actionable given budget constraints, building constraints, number of teachers and staff.
THIS 100%.
What happens when one kid tests positive? Is the class all self-quarantining? Or when a teacher tests positive?
And this writing is sloppy, or inconsistent. Or written to protect themselves through internally conflicting messages.
And back to a teacher who's out sick, with COVID or something else. Substitutes are generally on the older end, so they're some of the vulnerable populations to keep safe.
I've posted this before link before, but I'll stress a core message again:
I think about this any time anyone says "we need to re-open schools." Who's this "we," and what are we doing to make it safe for everyone? Great, kids may mostly be safe from COVID-related fatalities, but we're just starting to see the huge range of impacts that may be lasting, even for individuals who initially appear asymptomatic and healthy. And even if they are healthy, are they serving as spreaders or even super-spreaders, infecting their teachers, administrators, staff, and families?
posted by filthy light thief at 2:08 PM on July 10, 2020 [18 favorites]
THIS 100%.
What happens when one kid tests positive? Is the class all self-quarantining? Or when a teacher tests positive?
And this writing is sloppy, or inconsistent. Or written to protect themselves through internally conflicting messages.
First, shield the most vulnerable. Children, older staff, and those who have underlying health conditions that put them at high risk should not return to school in person unless there is little or no community transmission; the school system should enable them to participate remotely to the greatest extent possible.Wait, did they just say "shield children"? If so, the actual message is "don't come to school unless there is little or no community transmission."
And back to a teacher who's out sick, with COVID or something else. Substitutes are generally on the older end, so they're some of the vulnerable populations to keep safe.
I've posted this before link before, but I'll stress a core message again:
When I was a student in the College of Education at the University of Northern Iowa, I had a professor who told us that one of the primary functions of public education was “child storage.” To some, this description may sound like an uncouth pronouncement of our education system. But in March, this truth became apparent. The nation’s economy relies on public schools not only to create human capital but also to provide a place where children are cared for while parents work. To get schools back up and running for the fall, society had only one job to do. Slow the spread of Covid-19. Instead, we chose to go maskless, eat out at our favorite restaurants or grab drinks at our favorite bars, send our children off to birthday parties and club sports, and go out to find our new favorite hazy IPA.Emphasis mine. From "Teachers Are Done Being Guilt-Tripped" (formerly titled "COVID:19 — Guilt and the Breaking Point of Teachers"), Medium.
I think about this any time anyone says "we need to re-open schools." Who's this "we," and what are we doing to make it safe for everyone? Great, kids may mostly be safe from COVID-related fatalities, but we're just starting to see the huge range of impacts that may be lasting, even for individuals who initially appear asymptomatic and healthy. And even if they are healthy, are they serving as spreaders or even super-spreaders, infecting their teachers, administrators, staff, and families?
posted by filthy light thief at 2:08 PM on July 10, 2020 [18 favorites]
I'm a teacher. I know how bad distance learning is. And how critical it is for equity that schools get back open ASAP. But we can't do it for free and without planning. It's enraging that schools have been an afterthought, though I'm glad we're talking about them now rather than in two months.
I did not love the Atlantic article. Way too distant from how a school actually operates. A lot of good callouts of this above but I was struck by "Staff break rooms should be closed." Great, so where do staff go? Their offices? Those don't exist in overcrowded schools. Stay in their empty classroom? Hah! Those are booked with another class too. I guess I'll just go... outside?
On the other hand, here is a 300+ point list by New Jersey teachers with actual questions about their reopening plans.
One school in TN has a much better plan than most other districts, though still not perfect.
posted by Wulfhere at 2:13 PM on July 10, 2020 [17 favorites]
I did not love the Atlantic article. Way too distant from how a school actually operates. A lot of good callouts of this above but I was struck by "Staff break rooms should be closed." Great, so where do staff go? Their offices? Those don't exist in overcrowded schools. Stay in their empty classroom? Hah! Those are booked with another class too. I guess I'll just go... outside?
On the other hand, here is a 300+ point list by New Jersey teachers with actual questions about their reopening plans.
One school in TN has a much better plan than most other districts, though still not perfect.
posted by Wulfhere at 2:13 PM on July 10, 2020 [17 favorites]
How to open safely:
1) Test, trace, and isolate until we're down to 0 community transmission
2) EVERYONE who comes in does 14 day mandatory quarantine
3) Then do everything else we want while testing and tracing to put out embers before they become wildfires
Anything opening before that is risking people's lives.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 2:13 PM on July 10, 2020 [3 favorites]
1) Test, trace, and isolate until we're down to 0 community transmission
2) EVERYONE who comes in does 14 day mandatory quarantine
3) Then do everything else we want while testing and tracing to put out embers before they become wildfires
Anything opening before that is risking people's lives.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 2:13 PM on July 10, 2020 [3 favorites]
Carl Sagan said “If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.” Step 1 to safely reopen our schools is “Prevent Reagan and his acolytes from taking over the Republican Party.” Modern conservatism is profoundly hostile to the notion that there is any role for the government in preventing human suffering, and we are reaping the punishment of this philosophy’s fullest expression courtesy of the Narcissist in Chief.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 2:16 PM on July 10, 2020 [25 favorites]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 2:16 PM on July 10, 2020 [25 favorites]
The real question is what will happen when multiple teacher's unions go on strike because of a lack of PPE and insufficient changes to school protocols? Because it will happen.
This, plus class-action lawsuits. Significant school reform has been nearly impossible in the U.S. for decades, for an easy reason: the other things that depend on it have no substitute system, even temporarily, to permit time for reform. It’s like if you want to do surgery on someone’s heart, but don’t have a machine that will circulate blood for them while their heart is stopped and being operated on, so stopping the heart to fix it will kill the patient before they can be saved.
All facets of capitalism are dependent on schooling, for daycare if nothing else. We haven’t been able to reform schooling—or even repair structural problems very well—because there is no alternate, even temporary, system to provide the primary function of modern schooling (which isn’t education, that’s second or third on the list at best): child supervision so that the parents can go work everyday and make capitalism happen.
But here we are in a situation where schooling must be stopped, at least as normal, because of an uncontrolled plague, and the alternatives available (varieties of mediated learning and home schooling) don’t provide that primary, necessary function of supervising the kids so that the adults can go to work.
I don’t know what the solution is (other than a semi-functioning federal government that could provide aid and stuff, but that’s not gonna happen soon), but this is not a stress point we want to break, because we don’t know what happens after and we don’t have any safety nets or alternatives for when things inevitably go sideways. And they will, and I’m worried that this is what it looks like when collectivism starts to break down in a fundamental way.
I’m hopeful that local authorities who are directly responsible for the health and welfare of their communities (mayors, superintendents) will be sensible when push comes to shove, and will choose cautiously and to protect our young people and education professionals. But because the federal government will not do its part to help, to be that cardiopulmonary bypass pump to keep us alive while critical systems are shut down, I don’t see how we avoid a massively disruptive domino effect, economically and otherwise.
The lead article of this post is entirely wishful thinking. I understand the need to flail about for any way to avoid what’s coming, but there isn’t any way to avoid it. No one wants to make the decision to keep schools physically closed, because we have no solutions for what happens after that. But it’s a decision that’s clearly unavoidable, and we should go ahead and admit it now, and stop wasting valuable time.
posted by LooseFilter at 2:18 PM on July 10, 2020 [10 favorites]
This, plus class-action lawsuits. Significant school reform has been nearly impossible in the U.S. for decades, for an easy reason: the other things that depend on it have no substitute system, even temporarily, to permit time for reform. It’s like if you want to do surgery on someone’s heart, but don’t have a machine that will circulate blood for them while their heart is stopped and being operated on, so stopping the heart to fix it will kill the patient before they can be saved.
All facets of capitalism are dependent on schooling, for daycare if nothing else. We haven’t been able to reform schooling—or even repair structural problems very well—because there is no alternate, even temporary, system to provide the primary function of modern schooling (which isn’t education, that’s second or third on the list at best): child supervision so that the parents can go work everyday and make capitalism happen.
But here we are in a situation where schooling must be stopped, at least as normal, because of an uncontrolled plague, and the alternatives available (varieties of mediated learning and home schooling) don’t provide that primary, necessary function of supervising the kids so that the adults can go to work.
I don’t know what the solution is (other than a semi-functioning federal government that could provide aid and stuff, but that’s not gonna happen soon), but this is not a stress point we want to break, because we don’t know what happens after and we don’t have any safety nets or alternatives for when things inevitably go sideways. And they will, and I’m worried that this is what it looks like when collectivism starts to break down in a fundamental way.
I’m hopeful that local authorities who are directly responsible for the health and welfare of their communities (mayors, superintendents) will be sensible when push comes to shove, and will choose cautiously and to protect our young people and education professionals. But because the federal government will not do its part to help, to be that cardiopulmonary bypass pump to keep us alive while critical systems are shut down, I don’t see how we avoid a massively disruptive domino effect, economically and otherwise.
The lead article of this post is entirely wishful thinking. I understand the need to flail about for any way to avoid what’s coming, but there isn’t any way to avoid it. No one wants to make the decision to keep schools physically closed, because we have no solutions for what happens after that. But it’s a decision that’s clearly unavoidable, and we should go ahead and admit it now, and stop wasting valuable time.
posted by LooseFilter at 2:18 PM on July 10, 2020 [10 favorites]
Minnesota Department of Education did a survey and over 60% of respondents support a full time return to school this fall.
I predict a shortage of teachers and staff. At least three teachers I know are just straight up opting out, and every other teacher I know is struggling with the decision of how much their job is worth to them vs the safety of themselves and their family.
I don't believe that our schools, even here in a wealthy suburb, can follow these guidelines effectively. I've seen schools that can't consistently stock paper towels - I just do not believe that they are capable of the logistics that will be required to keep everyone in the building safe.
And even if they do open, what happens when a case of covid comes through and everybody gets sent home for two weeks anyway? Will they be doing distance learning during that time? Will parents be taking two weeks off to be home with their kids? Or sending their covid-exposed kids to daycare? Or to an elderly relatives' house?
Schools are going to open and kids are going to die and I'm so angry and so scared.
posted by beandip at 2:18 PM on July 10, 2020 [6 favorites]
I predict a shortage of teachers and staff. At least three teachers I know are just straight up opting out, and every other teacher I know is struggling with the decision of how much their job is worth to them vs the safety of themselves and their family.
I don't believe that our schools, even here in a wealthy suburb, can follow these guidelines effectively. I've seen schools that can't consistently stock paper towels - I just do not believe that they are capable of the logistics that will be required to keep everyone in the building safe.
And even if they do open, what happens when a case of covid comes through and everybody gets sent home for two weeks anyway? Will they be doing distance learning during that time? Will parents be taking two weeks off to be home with their kids? Or sending their covid-exposed kids to daycare? Or to an elderly relatives' house?
Schools are going to open and kids are going to die and I'm so angry and so scared.
posted by beandip at 2:18 PM on July 10, 2020 [6 favorites]
For what it's worth, I feel like serious plans would involve things like listed above (testing, tracing, etc) plus hiring more teachers and more staff and districts renting out whatever space they can find to separate students into smaller groups. Oh, and seriously tackling the problems of ventilating all these spaces.
That would require a mountain of money, of course. And we could do this, if we treated it like an actual emergency and a national security issue, which this really is. But it's not happening here.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:31 PM on July 10, 2020 [7 favorites]
That would require a mountain of money, of course. And we could do this, if we treated it like an actual emergency and a national security issue, which this really is. But it's not happening here.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:31 PM on July 10, 2020 [7 favorites]
Can we indulge a thought experiment: turn all the schools into boarding schools, hire teachers that have full antibody immunity and just do a year of everyone away from home and far from the 'olds' and at risk communities.
> Alabama GOP lawmaker says he wants to see more people get covid-19 (WaPo live blog) "Doctors continue to study the disease, and the long-term effects on the heart and brain of those who survive are unknown, even if people suffered few symptoms or were completely asymptomatic. [...] The idea of widespread immunity for those who have survived is also not certain, according to experts. [...] The presence of coronavirus antibodies may not lead to immunity."
From the beginning, disproportionately impacted groups, including children, needed to be placed first in the planning for managing the pandemic, but they were not, and now we are dealing with the consequences of systemically racist and ableist policymaking, as well as misinformation about the nature of the coronavirus. These are civil rights and labor rights issues, and as a former teacher, it does feel like politicians have miscalculated if they think they can threaten and bully a group that more than anything wants to protect students and their families.
posted by katra at 2:33 PM on July 10, 2020 [3 favorites]
> Alabama GOP lawmaker says he wants to see more people get covid-19 (WaPo live blog) "Doctors continue to study the disease, and the long-term effects on the heart and brain of those who survive are unknown, even if people suffered few symptoms or were completely asymptomatic. [...] The idea of widespread immunity for those who have survived is also not certain, according to experts. [...] The presence of coronavirus antibodies may not lead to immunity."
From the beginning, disproportionately impacted groups, including children, needed to be placed first in the planning for managing the pandemic, but they were not, and now we are dealing with the consequences of systemically racist and ableist policymaking, as well as misinformation about the nature of the coronavirus. These are civil rights and labor rights issues, and as a former teacher, it does feel like politicians have miscalculated if they think they can threaten and bully a group that more than anything wants to protect students and their families.
posted by katra at 2:33 PM on July 10, 2020 [3 favorites]
The National Basketball Association, with millions of dollars in profits as motivation, can’t keep their players safe from The ‘Rona.
And people are talking with serious tones in their voices like schools are gonna do a better job.
Makes me wonder what American pandemic in 2020 they’re living through.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 2:57 PM on July 10, 2020 [15 favorites]
And people are talking with serious tones in their voices like schools are gonna do a better job.
Makes me wonder what American pandemic in 2020 they’re living through.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 2:57 PM on July 10, 2020 [15 favorites]
The best solutions to the problem of school are simply not happening (treating COVID-19 seriously and having the federal gov't actually take action to reduce caseload), so we're stuck with a full set of extremely crappy "solutions" that all harm people one way or another.
And so we end up arguing about these two pretty terrible options, because we can't take on the root cause.
posted by that girl at 3:40 PM on July 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
And so we end up arguing about these two pretty terrible options, because we can't take on the root cause.
posted by that girl at 3:40 PM on July 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Even if you had things under control the school problem is still really hard to solve. My province of Ontario, with a population of 14 million people, is averaging 100-200 new cases per day and that is trending down so we've got things significantly better than you folks in the USA. We have no workable plans here for how to open schools in September for regions that still are experiencing new cases. The hope is that we're all down to 0 by then so that we can continue as normal, but maybe with more hand washing but if that doesn't happen the schools are fucked. The public board in Toronto has sent out a survey to see if parents would prefer their kids to go to school one week and then be home the following week or to go alternating days. I'm not sure which one you're supposed to pick if you have to go to work and don't have anyone to supervise your kids if they aren't at school.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:29 PM on July 10, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:29 PM on July 10, 2020 [3 favorites]
Minnesota Department of Education did a survey and over 60% of respondents support a full time return to school this fall.
Yeah, well people are dumb. This problem we have is not subject to popularity contests. Also, do they really support a full-time return to school, or do they support better distance-learning options, free daycare, and remote work for themselves? That is, do they want a return to an image of past normalcy because the nation is incapable of adapting to, and supporting them, in the present?
"The problem with asking people what they think is that they'll tell you."
posted by rhizome at 4:30 PM on July 10, 2020 [8 favorites]
Yeah, well people are dumb. This problem we have is not subject to popularity contests. Also, do they really support a full-time return to school, or do they support better distance-learning options, free daycare, and remote work for themselves? That is, do they want a return to an image of past normalcy because the nation is incapable of adapting to, and supporting them, in the present?
"The problem with asking people what they think is that they'll tell you."
posted by rhizome at 4:30 PM on July 10, 2020 [8 favorites]
I live in the NYC suburbs and work in the city. I can’t help but feel like in 2-3 weeks when people start dying in higher numbers in the US hotspots the way they did here, the pressure for federal aid will increase significantly across the country. I can’t think of a more terrible thing to be hopeful for, and I’ve been trying for quite a while now.
posted by Kemma80 at 4:35 PM on July 10, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by Kemma80 at 4:35 PM on July 10, 2020 [5 favorites]
This problem we have is not subject to popularity contests. Also, do they really support a full-time return to school, or do they support better distance-learning options, free daycare, and remote work for themselves?
Parents just want their kids out of the house so they can get some work done. I don't blame them, but I don't think most of them have any sophisticated pedagogical views on the matter, just get the kids TF out of the house.
posted by GuyZero at 4:37 PM on July 10, 2020 [4 favorites]
Parents just want their kids out of the house so they can get some work done. I don't blame them, but I don't think most of them have any sophisticated pedagogical views on the matter, just get the kids TF out of the house.
posted by GuyZero at 4:37 PM on July 10, 2020 [4 favorites]
What happens when one kid tests positive? Is the class all self-quarantining? Or when a teacher tests positive?
For what it's worth, I am currently developing contact tracking capability for the school district that I work for. While the administration will have to wrestle with the problem of how to keep parents informed when such events occur without setting off a panic, I at least can guarantee that the machinery will be available to send notifications to all of the affected parties. I suspect that all school districts will take on this burden, if county or state authorities fail to address this.
posted by SPrintF at 4:51 PM on July 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
For what it's worth, I am currently developing contact tracking capability for the school district that I work for. While the administration will have to wrestle with the problem of how to keep parents informed when such events occur without setting off a panic, I at least can guarantee that the machinery will be available to send notifications to all of the affected parties. I suspect that all school districts will take on this burden, if county or state authorities fail to address this.
posted by SPrintF at 4:51 PM on July 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
Parents just want their kids out of the house so they can get some work done...just get the kids TF out of the house.
Even though this comment contains the phrase "I don't blame them" it sure comes across as dismissing the completely untenable situation in which an overwhelming percentage of parents find themselves at the moment.
Setting aside the very real impossibilities of capably educating a child when you are not an educator and when you are expected to work 40+ daytime hours per week -- not everyone is going to be able to continue working from home for the foreseeable future! Even people whose jobs can very easily be done remotely are being forced back into the office for bullshit reasons.
They don't WANT the kids TF out of the house. They NEED their kids to be fucking supervised so they can continue to afford feeding them food to keep them all alive.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 5:09 PM on July 10, 2020 [31 favorites]
Even though this comment contains the phrase "I don't blame them" it sure comes across as dismissing the completely untenable situation in which an overwhelming percentage of parents find themselves at the moment.
Setting aside the very real impossibilities of capably educating a child when you are not an educator and when you are expected to work 40+ daytime hours per week -- not everyone is going to be able to continue working from home for the foreseeable future! Even people whose jobs can very easily be done remotely are being forced back into the office for bullshit reasons.
They don't WANT the kids TF out of the house. They NEED their kids to be fucking supervised so they can continue to afford feeding them food to keep them all alive.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 5:09 PM on July 10, 2020 [31 favorites]
Setting aside the people who have never ever been able to work remotely through all this.
I mean maybe y'all don't personally know anyone who has been secretly leaving their very young children alone all day because they have no childcare and no school and no daycare and NO CHOICE. But you'll know about them when their kids die in an accidental housefire or something and they make the nightly news.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 5:11 PM on July 10, 2020 [30 favorites]
I mean maybe y'all don't personally know anyone who has been secretly leaving their very young children alone all day because they have no childcare and no school and no daycare and NO CHOICE. But you'll know about them when their kids die in an accidental housefire or something and they make the nightly news.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 5:11 PM on July 10, 2020 [30 favorites]
I don't think most of them have any sophisticated pedagogical views on the matter, just get the kids TF out of the house.
I hear this, but you know what? When I was in elementary school, the city had a program where they opened up some rooms at the school for activities and movies and we could just drop in whenever we wanted. It's where I first did that blue paper sunprint thing, where I saw "Gus" for the first time, probably did some tempera painting and whatnot...and it got us out of the house. This was back in pre Prop 13 California and when kids were still allowed to walk to school, but I feel like the idea of community resources can be modified for contemporary COVID-19 purposes.
I'm not saying anybody needs a particular result, just that we have not been able to adapt to this development. It would be nice if we did. It would be nice if the government were not acting to prevent adapting to it.
But I think there can be a world where the difficulties that families (et al) are having throughout this are not so crippling. Disaster preparedness? I feel like there is a profession oriented around this. Were there ever any schooling contingencies during the Cold War in case we nuked ourselves? That kind of thinking.
posted by rhizome at 5:20 PM on July 10, 2020 [6 favorites]
I hear this, but you know what? When I was in elementary school, the city had a program where they opened up some rooms at the school for activities and movies and we could just drop in whenever we wanted. It's where I first did that blue paper sunprint thing, where I saw "Gus" for the first time, probably did some tempera painting and whatnot...and it got us out of the house. This was back in pre Prop 13 California and when kids were still allowed to walk to school, but I feel like the idea of community resources can be modified for contemporary COVID-19 purposes.
I'm not saying anybody needs a particular result, just that we have not been able to adapt to this development. It would be nice if we did. It would be nice if the government were not acting to prevent adapting to it.
But I think there can be a world where the difficulties that families (et al) are having throughout this are not so crippling. Disaster preparedness? I feel like there is a profession oriented around this. Were there ever any schooling contingencies during the Cold War in case we nuked ourselves? That kind of thinking.
posted by rhizome at 5:20 PM on July 10, 2020 [6 favorites]
I don't blame them, but I don't think most of them have any sophisticated pedagogical views on the matter, just get the kids TF out of the house.
I'm sorry to pile on like this GuyZero, but you don't need sophisticated pedagogical views to see that distance learning as such is failing kids as well. So not only are careers and family finances being ruined, but kids are being set back months if not years in their education. If this situation continues, and is not treated as the major emergency it is, then there will likely be hundreds of thousands of parents and children in the US who never fully recover. I think most parents recognize this, and it only amplifies how awful and untenable all of this is.
posted by Alex404 at 5:38 PM on July 10, 2020 [5 favorites]
I'm sorry to pile on like this GuyZero, but you don't need sophisticated pedagogical views to see that distance learning as such is failing kids as well. So not only are careers and family finances being ruined, but kids are being set back months if not years in their education. If this situation continues, and is not treated as the major emergency it is, then there will likely be hundreds of thousands of parents and children in the US who never fully recover. I think most parents recognize this, and it only amplifies how awful and untenable all of this is.
posted by Alex404 at 5:38 PM on July 10, 2020 [5 favorites]
My kid’s school district (Minneapolis) is waiting until the Minnesota Department of Education announces stuff on July 27th to make any plans public. So far my only consolation is that my kid’s school doesn’t have a lunchroom, so everyone is already used to eating in their classroom.
The pandemic education situation is made even more surreal by the fact that the school board forced through a massive district restructuring vote during actual lockdown despite overwhelming parent uproar, and they were supposed to spend the 2020-2021 school year creating an actual implementation plan for their half-baked proposal. Over 60% of kids in the district, my child included, are expected to be removed from their current school and forced into new schools in Fall 2021. I had zero confidence in the district being able to make said implementation plan without epic fuck ups, but adding pandemic safety precautions and long-term distance learning plans on top of that is just the worst.
My kid has a complex medical condition, and I have no idea what we’ll decide to do. It seems stupid to use FMLA or “special leave without pay” before anyone in our household actually gets sick, but how are we going to manage?
posted by Maarika at 6:52 PM on July 10, 2020 [4 favorites]
The pandemic education situation is made even more surreal by the fact that the school board forced through a massive district restructuring vote during actual lockdown despite overwhelming parent uproar, and they were supposed to spend the 2020-2021 school year creating an actual implementation plan for their half-baked proposal. Over 60% of kids in the district, my child included, are expected to be removed from their current school and forced into new schools in Fall 2021. I had zero confidence in the district being able to make said implementation plan without epic fuck ups, but adding pandemic safety precautions and long-term distance learning plans on top of that is just the worst.
My kid has a complex medical condition, and I have no idea what we’ll decide to do. It seems stupid to use FMLA or “special leave without pay” before anyone in our household actually gets sick, but how are we going to manage?
posted by Maarika at 6:52 PM on July 10, 2020 [4 favorites]
Here's the photo of our great national leaders (including or own dopey governor, sitting right next to Melania) sitting down do decide how to most quickly re-open schools and to go ahead and revise the CDC guidelines under discussion here so as to make them as completely ineffective as possible.
Just look at the high percentage of masks being work, the excellent social distancing practices being followed as dozens of people from around the country meet in one small room to get this figured out. All the very best practices followed by the highest level and highest quality of people. These are people who really know how to do this the right way.
[/HAMBURGER]
Seriously folks, I've despaired before, but I never despaired as hard as when I saw the great leaders sitting down to determine the future of our school system and they're--almost to a person--too lazy, dumb, proud, vain, or ignorant to even put on a simple mask or sit with six feet of separation in one of the most fertile types of COVID-19 transmission situations imaginable.
These fuckwits are literally deciding the future of our country right now.
[WEEPS.]
posted by flug at 6:58 PM on July 10, 2020 [7 favorites]
Just look at the high percentage of masks being work, the excellent social distancing practices being followed as dozens of people from around the country meet in one small room to get this figured out. All the very best practices followed by the highest level and highest quality of people. These are people who really know how to do this the right way.
[/HAMBURGER]
Seriously folks, I've despaired before, but I never despaired as hard as when I saw the great leaders sitting down to determine the future of our school system and they're--almost to a person--too lazy, dumb, proud, vain, or ignorant to even put on a simple mask or sit with six feet of separation in one of the most fertile types of COVID-19 transmission situations imaginable.
These fuckwits are literally deciding the future of our country right now.
[WEEPS.]
posted by flug at 6:58 PM on July 10, 2020 [7 favorites]
So, I've mentioned elsewhere mostly on the green that my kids been in daycare for almost the duration of the pandemic for reasons.
Anyway, she's 2. It's way way smaller than a normal classroom (max size is 10 kids, and for most of the pandemic they were under six kids). She's also enrolled in a private pre k in the fall three days a week for full days with census of 6 and one dedicated staff member. It's actually going to be less exposure than she gets now, but in a way bigger building.
There is lots of reasons why we've done this. The school she going to in the fall is very community oriented, and very outdoor all weather oriented, and recently started restarted outdoor parent child walking events. This is a mixed age group 2 to 5. We wanted to get to know the other kids a little bit and you know walk in the park.
It didn't go well. The older prek kids just cry when outside, clinging to their parents and are terrified. They have encoded as going outdoors as DANGER. Out of the five kids, only 1 wore a mask for most of the duration, and we've been working with our kid on that litterally since February. She's also a kid who just doesnt take off stuff which is an abormal kid behavior to begin with. But that's a long time, and even with our kid whose decent about it, once she needs a snack or water all bets are off as she remembers it can go. And even outdoors, with acres of space in a public park with walking trails, the kids can't socially distance . They talk to eachother. They get interested in eachothers stuff. They see a plant or a bug and cry out and run towards it. Even with one adult to one child ratio, the kids get RIGHT NEXT TO EACHOTHER. Adults also don't naturally social distance well, it's a ton of work, and people are naturally social people.
Basically what I'm saying is that we've already hurt the kids. It's been too long. But that masks don't work either. Even outdoors, with litterally acres of surface social distancing isn't happening .
I have no idea how to make this work. I was trying to figure out what was done in the past by looking through history, like with polio but honestly the economic landscape is so so different than it use to be, what we expect of children and childhood, gains in educational expectations and comparisons aren't really useful. Also Lots of people died from of horrible things. It's normal for both parents to work outside the home. It's normal to parents work jobs where kids can't participate in any way. I have no trust in schools to be able to do this safely . It's not possible . I also think our goverment will let people starve to death to maintain the illusion of normalcy, with these half schedules and no public benefits and no healthcare. And don't get me started on what the CARES act covers and doesn't, because it's ugly. The aftermath of a covid infection that isn't deadly but very serious requires medical equipment, oxygen, trach supplies, PT/OT etc and it's not been covered as far as I can tell. There is a whole host of adults, some of them fairly young becoming permanently disabled by COVID and it's bankrupting them, and the insurance companies are walking away if there was insurance in the first place.
Honestly, my conclusion is unless the public health department gets its act together to order isolation to the point we starve this virus of hosts, and actively test the population and contact traces aggressively, normal activity isn't possible. This virus is too contagious. People need to socialize and work and kids need an education. But ALL of those things will lead to widespread infection.
I think a big indicator of how this will fail is that the infection rate in medical personnel is so high, even though they have access to supplies and training at a level a public school teacher will never get.
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:08 PM on July 10, 2020 [16 favorites]
Anyway, she's 2. It's way way smaller than a normal classroom (max size is 10 kids, and for most of the pandemic they were under six kids). She's also enrolled in a private pre k in the fall three days a week for full days with census of 6 and one dedicated staff member. It's actually going to be less exposure than she gets now, but in a way bigger building.
There is lots of reasons why we've done this. The school she going to in the fall is very community oriented, and very outdoor all weather oriented, and recently started restarted outdoor parent child walking events. This is a mixed age group 2 to 5. We wanted to get to know the other kids a little bit and you know walk in the park.
It didn't go well. The older prek kids just cry when outside, clinging to their parents and are terrified. They have encoded as going outdoors as DANGER. Out of the five kids, only 1 wore a mask for most of the duration, and we've been working with our kid on that litterally since February. She's also a kid who just doesnt take off stuff which is an abormal kid behavior to begin with. But that's a long time, and even with our kid whose decent about it, once she needs a snack or water all bets are off as she remembers it can go. And even outdoors, with acres of space in a public park with walking trails, the kids can't socially distance . They talk to eachother. They get interested in eachothers stuff. They see a plant or a bug and cry out and run towards it. Even with one adult to one child ratio, the kids get RIGHT NEXT TO EACHOTHER. Adults also don't naturally social distance well, it's a ton of work, and people are naturally social people.
Basically what I'm saying is that we've already hurt the kids. It's been too long. But that masks don't work either. Even outdoors, with litterally acres of surface social distancing isn't happening .
I have no idea how to make this work. I was trying to figure out what was done in the past by looking through history, like with polio but honestly the economic landscape is so so different than it use to be, what we expect of children and childhood, gains in educational expectations and comparisons aren't really useful. Also Lots of people died from of horrible things. It's normal for both parents to work outside the home. It's normal to parents work jobs where kids can't participate in any way. I have no trust in schools to be able to do this safely . It's not possible . I also think our goverment will let people starve to death to maintain the illusion of normalcy, with these half schedules and no public benefits and no healthcare. And don't get me started on what the CARES act covers and doesn't, because it's ugly. The aftermath of a covid infection that isn't deadly but very serious requires medical equipment, oxygen, trach supplies, PT/OT etc and it's not been covered as far as I can tell. There is a whole host of adults, some of them fairly young becoming permanently disabled by COVID and it's bankrupting them, and the insurance companies are walking away if there was insurance in the first place.
Honestly, my conclusion is unless the public health department gets its act together to order isolation to the point we starve this virus of hosts, and actively test the population and contact traces aggressively, normal activity isn't possible. This virus is too contagious. People need to socialize and work and kids need an education. But ALL of those things will lead to widespread infection.
I think a big indicator of how this will fail is that the infection rate in medical personnel is so high, even though they have access to supplies and training at a level a public school teacher will never get.
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:08 PM on July 10, 2020 [16 favorites]
Opening schools is going to be a shit-show for about a month until there's a giant outbreak and everything is shuttered again, but with extra dead people. I'm especially upset that NPR, even the normally more even-handed WNYC, is running pieces on re-opening with one very 'for' person, and maybe one neutral person, but never anyone who's knowledgeable and against.
posted by overhauser at 7:12 PM on July 10, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by overhauser at 7:12 PM on July 10, 2020 [9 favorites]
I'm sorry to pile on like this GuyZero, but you don't need sophisticated pedagogical views to see that distance learning as such is failing kids as well. So not only are careers and family finances being ruined, but kids are being set back months if not years in their education. If this situation continues, and is not treated as the major emergency it is, then there will likely be hundreds of thousands of parents and children in the US who never fully recover.
This isn't the either-or everyone is acting like it is. If students go in for the month or two that lasts, the in-person education with the required COVID-related changes that they will get - a mumbling teacher behind a mask and a plexiglass shield six feet away from 'distanced' terrified and like-wise masked children - is going to be just as bad, if not worse, than the online version. I'm actually a bit angry that everyone is acting like its some magic thing that will fix everything. It will be worse. And then there will be more dead and permanently damaged people.
posted by overhauser at 7:20 PM on July 10, 2020 [11 favorites]
This isn't the either-or everyone is acting like it is. If students go in for the month or two that lasts, the in-person education with the required COVID-related changes that they will get - a mumbling teacher behind a mask and a plexiglass shield six feet away from 'distanced' terrified and like-wise masked children - is going to be just as bad, if not worse, than the online version. I'm actually a bit angry that everyone is acting like its some magic thing that will fix everything. It will be worse. And then there will be more dead and permanently damaged people.
posted by overhauser at 7:20 PM on July 10, 2020 [11 favorites]
Opening schools is going to be a shit-show for about a month until there's a giant outbreak and everything is shuttered again, but with extra dead people.
If the US doesn't get a handle on suppressing the spread of the virus, I think you're right.
Right now community spread seems to be under control in Canada - I'm in BC - but not in most parts of the US.
A Science article comparing school openings in different countries: School openings across globe suggest ways to keep coronavirus at bay, despite outbreaks. But:
posted by russilwvong at 7:42 PM on July 10, 2020 [7 favorites]
If the US doesn't get a handle on suppressing the spread of the virus, I think you're right.
Right now community spread seems to be under control in Canada - I'm in BC - but not in most parts of the US.
A Science article comparing school openings in different countries: School openings across globe suggest ways to keep coronavirus at bay, despite outbreaks. But:
... opening safely, experts agree, isn’t just about the adjustments a school makes. It’s also about how much virus is circulating in the community, which affects the likelihood that students and staff will bring COVID-19 into their classrooms.There's a guide to Covid-19 risk level from Ezekiel Emanuel, Saskia Popscu, and James Phillips that identifies four risk factors: enclosed space, duration of interaction, crowding, and forceful exhalation. Schools seem high risk for at least the first three, and maybe the fourth as well.
“Outbreaks in schools are inevitable,” says Otto Helve, a pediatric infectious disease specialist at the Finnish Institute for Health and Welfare. “But there is good news.” So far, with some changes to schools’ daily routines, he says, the benefits of attending school seem to outweigh the risks—at least where community infection rates are low and officials are standing by to identify and isolate cases and close contacts.
posted by russilwvong at 7:42 PM on July 10, 2020 [7 favorites]
As I've complained in the other thread, the evidence that children don't spread Covid is much weaker than most authorities assert. The internet is full of strong claims like those by the AAP:
[Note that I am a working parent with two children under 6 currently at home; I'm well aware of the costs of keeping kids home, and we will probably send ours to their largely unprotected schools when they reopen because we too have no real choice and the only sane alternatives -- stay-at-home UBI until a vaccine appears or reopen only when prevalence is below 0.1% -- are both off the table. None of that changes the fact that we need to know the risks and those risks are being misrepresented even by trustworthy authorities.]
posted by chortly at 7:44 PM on July 10, 2020 [16 favorites]
Although children and adolescents play a major role in amplifying influenza outbreaks, to date, this does not appear to be the case with SARS-CoV-2. Although many questions remain, the preponderance of evidence indicates that children and adolescents are less likely to be symptomatic and less likely to have severe disease resulting from SARS-CoV-2 infection. In addition, children may be less likely to become infected and to spread infection.The AAP also just published a "paper" (brief commentary, really) titled "COVID-19 Transmission and Children: The Child Is Not to Blame," which is already being widely cited as definitive. But inside it only says: "To date, few published data are available to help guide these decisions." There follows three case studies with a total N of 120 showing low transmission from children in households, after which they say "Similarly, transmission of SARS-CoV-2 by children outside household settings seems uncommon, although information is limited." And then follows two more anecdotal studies with a total initial infected number of 19, followed by a conclusion:
On the basis of these data, SARS-CoV-2 transmission in schools may be less important in community transmission than initially feared. ... Although 2 reports are far from definitive, the researchers provide early reassurance that school-based transmission could be a manageable problem, and school closures may not have to be a foregone conclusion, particularly for elementary school–aged children who appear to be at the lowest risk of infection.Calling two reports "far from definitive" and using them as the basis of a paper titled "COVID-19 Transmission and Children: The Child Is Not to Blame" is literally criminal misrepresentation. Even apart from the fact that there are also many studies showing transmission rates comparable to adults, serology prevalence comparable to adults, and viral loads comparable to adults -- even if they didn't know all of that, presenting the skimpy evidence they have in such terms is something we would rightly decry in Trump. And it's prevalent across the political spectrum as Democrats and Republicans alike are desperate to find reasons to send kids back to school so their parents can get back to work.
[Note that I am a working parent with two children under 6 currently at home; I'm well aware of the costs of keeping kids home, and we will probably send ours to their largely unprotected schools when they reopen because we too have no real choice and the only sane alternatives -- stay-at-home UBI until a vaccine appears or reopen only when prevalence is below 0.1% -- are both off the table. None of that changes the fact that we need to know the risks and those risks are being misrepresented even by trustworthy authorities.]
posted by chortly at 7:44 PM on July 10, 2020 [16 favorites]
We have no workable plans here [Ontario] for how to open schools in September for regions that still are experiencing new cases.
I'm really upset, and have written my MPP and Trustee and Lecce and Ford to say so, that the boards were asked to plan without being given increased resources.
If cases continue to come down (although they seem to have stalled and even gone up a bit in TO) then what you need is a creative, flexible plan.
And you also need real distance ed help because LORD ABOVE asking each classroom teacher to do their best was an abject failure. My son's teacher used the same horrific Google Doc locked template for him to type in in a font that wasn't Papyrus but was close, every single day. Like, please, get her some help that knows at least how to set up a freaking FORM that would be responsive.
I don't know what's best. My kids are almost-10 and 14 and that means they can probably carry viral loads and get sick. My MIL lives with us. I do worry the most about the doomsday "child brings grandma-killing germs home" and its impact. The online "education" in the spring was horrible and I don't believe things will have improved over the summer because no one is supporting boards, who have great expertise in many things but crisis rewriting of ALL classroom operations is not really one of them, active shooter drills aside.
I suspect here in Ontario we'll go back, we'll end up shut down again, and the year will be a loss. The question will be...can we admit it, have everyone repeat the year with a staffed-up double cohort in 2021/22...hoping we have other solutions by then.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:00 PM on July 10, 2020
I'm really upset, and have written my MPP and Trustee and Lecce and Ford to say so, that the boards were asked to plan without being given increased resources.
If cases continue to come down (although they seem to have stalled and even gone up a bit in TO) then what you need is a creative, flexible plan.
And you also need real distance ed help because LORD ABOVE asking each classroom teacher to do their best was an abject failure. My son's teacher used the same horrific Google Doc locked template for him to type in in a font that wasn't Papyrus but was close, every single day. Like, please, get her some help that knows at least how to set up a freaking FORM that would be responsive.
I don't know what's best. My kids are almost-10 and 14 and that means they can probably carry viral loads and get sick. My MIL lives with us. I do worry the most about the doomsday "child brings grandma-killing germs home" and its impact. The online "education" in the spring was horrible and I don't believe things will have improved over the summer because no one is supporting boards, who have great expertise in many things but crisis rewriting of ALL classroom operations is not really one of them, active shooter drills aside.
I suspect here in Ontario we'll go back, we'll end up shut down again, and the year will be a loss. The question will be...can we admit it, have everyone repeat the year with a staffed-up double cohort in 2021/22...hoping we have other solutions by then.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:00 PM on July 10, 2020
Data point: An acquaintance of mine who teaches English at a local university posted today on her social media that she's filed her retirement papers, because her school's safety protocols for the fall (to the extent that they have them) do not seem adequate.
She's older and had considered retirement before, but the current situation with COVID-19 definitely was the direct cause for hitting the eject button at this specific time.
posted by Nat "King" Cole Porter Wagoner at 9:32 PM on July 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
She's older and had considered retirement before, but the current situation with COVID-19 definitely was the direct cause for hitting the eject button at this specific time.
posted by Nat "King" Cole Porter Wagoner at 9:32 PM on July 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
A story on the political front, from Politico: Trump's campaign to open schools provokes mounting backlash even from GOP. "An overwhelming alignment of local, state and even Republican-aligned organizations oppose the rush to reopen schools and colleges."
posted by russilwvong at 11:24 PM on July 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by russilwvong at 11:24 PM on July 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
This is so dependent on the confidence you have in your government, as well as all the other factors mentioned.
In the UK, my confidence has increased a bit (from a low base) due to the imposition of a localised lockdown in Leicester when they established that it was experiencing incredibly high numbers of cases for its population size. It's not good that that happened, but it's increased my confidence that the UK government is willing to take unpopular action on public health even if it goes against their preferred narrative that we can start going out and about if we do so safely.
I've been following NY state's response from afar, and I feel like if Andrew Cuomo said it's ok to open schools in a certain way I'd be more likely to believe that it's true, because NYS seem to have demonstrated already that they want to put the public good overall first (including Covid risks, and mental health, long-term education and jobs).
But, both NYS and the UK are well over their peak, the case rate has come down a lot and there is plenty of evidence about how well the government responds. In other places, that's not the case - both in terms of the situation on the ground, but also the trust and confidence that elected officials have built up, or not.
posted by plonkee at 2:08 AM on July 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
In the UK, my confidence has increased a bit (from a low base) due to the imposition of a localised lockdown in Leicester when they established that it was experiencing incredibly high numbers of cases for its population size. It's not good that that happened, but it's increased my confidence that the UK government is willing to take unpopular action on public health even if it goes against their preferred narrative that we can start going out and about if we do so safely.
I've been following NY state's response from afar, and I feel like if Andrew Cuomo said it's ok to open schools in a certain way I'd be more likely to believe that it's true, because NYS seem to have demonstrated already that they want to put the public good overall first (including Covid risks, and mental health, long-term education and jobs).
But, both NYS and the UK are well over their peak, the case rate has come down a lot and there is plenty of evidence about how well the government responds. In other places, that's not the case - both in terms of the situation on the ground, but also the trust and confidence that elected officials have built up, or not.
posted by plonkee at 2:08 AM on July 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
We are so fucked in the United States. I just want to call attention to the very first guideline:
The cost of that will be terrible. Both to the childrens' education and to the parents losing any help with childcare. Or even worse, what we seem to be doing; open schools anyway despite the health risks. Which will only make transmission worse, and screw teachers.
It's a uniquely American problem. No European nation is facing this horrible situation.
posted by Nelson at 7:27 AM on July 11, 2020 [14 favorites]
should not return to school in person unless there is little or no community transmissionThat will not be possible in the United States. We gave up in April. And now so that a few schmucks can live it up in bars and amusement parks, there's no safe way to open schools.
The cost of that will be terrible. Both to the childrens' education and to the parents losing any help with childcare. Or even worse, what we seem to be doing; open schools anyway despite the health risks. Which will only make transmission worse, and screw teachers.
It's a uniquely American problem. No European nation is facing this horrible situation.
posted by Nelson at 7:27 AM on July 11, 2020 [14 favorites]
beandip: Minnesota Department of Education did a survey and over 60% of respondents support a full time return to school this fall.
rhizome: Yeah, well people are dumb. This problem we have is not subject to popularity contests.
And parents generally focus on sports over education, some only worrying about kids' grades when they're cut from teams or sports participation. And parents aren't in charge of education (unless they're on the school board, but that's another story).
From Fairfax County Public Schools (superintendent?) on Facebook, reposted to Democratic Underground, excepting only two of numerous excellent points against re-opening schools in any way, shape, or form, starting with a response to a comment on why to re-open:
Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, via Yahoo! on July 9, 2020:
From FCPS again:
posted by filthy light thief at 11:33 AM on July 11, 2020 [25 favorites]
rhizome: Yeah, well people are dumb. This problem we have is not subject to popularity contests.
And parents generally focus on sports over education, some only worrying about kids' grades when they're cut from teams or sports participation. And parents aren't in charge of education (unless they're on the school board, but that's another story).
From Fairfax County Public Schools (superintendent?) on Facebook, reposted to Democratic Underground, excepting only two of numerous excellent points against re-opening schools in any way, shape, or form, starting with a response to a comment on why to re-open:
“Classrooms are safe.”
At the current distancing guidelines from FCPS middle and high schools would have no more than 12 people (teachers + students) in a classroom (I acknowledge this number may change as FCPS considers the Commonwealth’s 3 ft with a mask vs. 6 ft position, noting that FCPS is all mask regardless of the distance). For the purpose of this discussion we’ll say classes run 45 minutes.
I posed the following question to 40 people today, representing professional and management roles in corporations, government agencies, and military commands: “Would your company or command have a 12 person, 45 minute meeting in a conference room?”
100% of them said no, they would not. These are some of their answers:
“No. Until further notice we are on Zoom.”
“(Our company) doesn’t allow us in (company space).”
“Oh hell no.”
“No absolutely not.”
“Is there a percentage lower than zero?”
“Something of that size would be virtual.”
We do not even consider putting our office employees into the same situation we are contemplating putting our children into. And let’s drive this point home: there are instances here when commanding officers will not put soldiers, ACTUAL SOLDIERS, into the kind of indoor environment we’re contemplating for our children. For me this is as close to a ‘kill shot’ argument as there is in this entire debate. How do we work from home because buildings with recycled air are not safe, because we don’t trust other people to not spread the virus, and then with the same breath send our children into buildings?
“Children only die .0016 of the time.”
First, conceding we’re an increasingly morally bankrupt society, but when did we start talking about children’s lives, or anyone’s lives, like this? This how the villain in movies talks about mortality, usually 10-15 minutes before the good guy kills him.
If you’re in this camp, and I acknowledge that many, many people are, I’m asking you to consider that number from a slightly different angle.
FCPS has 189,000 children. .0016 of that is 302. 302 dead children are the Calvary Hill you’re erecting your argument on. So, let’s agree to do this: stop presenting this as a data point. If this is your argument, I challenge you to have courage equal to your conviction. Go ahead, plant a flag on the internet and say, “Only 302 children will die.” No one will. That’s the kind action on social media that gets you fired from your job. And I trust our social media enclave isn’t so careless and irresponsible with life that it would even, for even a millisecond, enter any of your minds to make such an argument.
Considered another way: You’re presented with a bag with 189,000 $1 bills. You’re told that in the bag are 302 random bills, they look and feel just like all the others, but each one of those bills will kill you. Do you take the money out of the bag?
[...]
I will summarize my view of the School Board thusly: if the 12 of you aren’t getting into a room together because it represents a risk, don’t tell me it’s OK for our kids.
Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, via Yahoo! on July 9, 2020:
"If a parent wants to opt for virtual education, they should absolutely be able to do that,” DeSantis said during a press conference in Jacksonville on Thursday. “We shouldn’t be forcing them to do any types of decisions. But I’m confident if you can do Home Depot, if you can do Walmart, if you can do these things, we absolutely can do the schools. I want our kids to be able minimize the education gap that I think has developed."I don't always go to Home Depot, but when I do, I tend not to go 5 days in a row for 7 hours at a time (meme, from Facebook, reposted to Mltshp).
From FCPS again:
“My kid is going to be left behind.”Preach.
Left behind who? The entire country is grappling with the same issue, leaving all children in the same quagmire. Who exactly would they be behind? I believe the rhetorical answer to that is “They’ll be behind where they should be,” to which I’ll counter that “where they should be” is a fictional goal post that we as a society have taken as gospel because it maps to standardized tests which are used to grade schools and counties as they chase funding.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:33 AM on July 11, 2020 [25 favorites]
I think it might be a bit safer in NJ as well as NYS to reopen, both states took very aggressive lockdown measures and rates are going down here.
At the same time, the urban district where I work had a ton of cases in March and April and May. A half dozen of my students were sick... Another half dozen lost family... And those are just the ones I know about, who said something over text. I was at a BLM protest in the community and 3 of the dozen speakers had been sick.
There's been really aggressive testing in the community where I work, much more than where I live, where I'm on a waitlist for testing. But the original outbreak happened through the school system. I actually believe that high school kids will wear masks in school all day, with some lapses. They'll do it because getting sick isn't an abstraction for them.
But I don't think there's space to distance in the cafeteria because we **already** don't have space in the cafeteria, half the kids eat in the gym already.
And if the kids eat in the classrooms, won't that expose the teachers who have to be in the classrooms to watch them? And that will also have to be built into the schedule, where currently those rooms are used for other classes...
At the moment theres no individual teacher supply budget even for pencils, we are using leftover supplies from the end of this year. I can only hope that money is going toward a schoolwide supply of handsaniter and masks...
And to round this all off, like several people have mentioned there will be a staff shortage next year. From talking to other teachers, a lot people are leaving the district or even teaching as a profession. So the people who are left behind will have more students to teach...
We are going to a split schedule though, with some teachers coming in earlier and others staying later to try to split up the classes a little bit. It will work if they can hire more people, avoid losing people, and if they HUGELY relax the curriculum and lighten the load for teachers, maybe by cancelling SGOs again / decreasing the administrative parts of the job that aren't directly related to instruction.
I don't know, I've just been worrying for the last few weeks and wondering what to do in the fall. Even if there's no public health crisis the workload will be crazy. Something, somewhere will have to give.
posted by subdee at 11:46 AM on July 11, 2020 [4 favorites]
At the same time, the urban district where I work had a ton of cases in March and April and May. A half dozen of my students were sick... Another half dozen lost family... And those are just the ones I know about, who said something over text. I was at a BLM protest in the community and 3 of the dozen speakers had been sick.
There's been really aggressive testing in the community where I work, much more than where I live, where I'm on a waitlist for testing. But the original outbreak happened through the school system. I actually believe that high school kids will wear masks in school all day, with some lapses. They'll do it because getting sick isn't an abstraction for them.
But I don't think there's space to distance in the cafeteria because we **already** don't have space in the cafeteria, half the kids eat in the gym already.
And if the kids eat in the classrooms, won't that expose the teachers who have to be in the classrooms to watch them? And that will also have to be built into the schedule, where currently those rooms are used for other classes...
At the moment theres no individual teacher supply budget even for pencils, we are using leftover supplies from the end of this year. I can only hope that money is going toward a schoolwide supply of handsaniter and masks...
And to round this all off, like several people have mentioned there will be a staff shortage next year. From talking to other teachers, a lot people are leaving the district or even teaching as a profession. So the people who are left behind will have more students to teach...
We are going to a split schedule though, with some teachers coming in earlier and others staying later to try to split up the classes a little bit. It will work if they can hire more people, avoid losing people, and if they HUGELY relax the curriculum and lighten the load for teachers, maybe by cancelling SGOs again / decreasing the administrative parts of the job that aren't directly related to instruction.
I don't know, I've just been worrying for the last few weeks and wondering what to do in the fall. Even if there's no public health crisis the workload will be crazy. Something, somewhere will have to give.
posted by subdee at 11:46 AM on July 11, 2020 [4 favorites]
Don't substitute teachers tend to work in a bunch of different schools? Sometimes changing schools a few times a week? One asymptomatic substitute spreading the virus to classes all over the school district seems like a recipe for a community-wide outbreak.
posted by MrVisible at 11:56 AM on July 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by MrVisible at 11:56 AM on July 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
“Children only die .0016 of the time.”... FCPS has 189,000 children. .0016 of that is 302. 302 dead children are the Calvary Hill you’re erecting your argument on.
I entirely agree with this rhetorical point, that it should be put in terms of number of killed children, not abstract percentages, much less the current focus on "improvement" instead of absolute levels. That said, I think the numbers here are mistaken: I don't know what the numbers are exactly, but presumably 0.0016 is the death rate for infected children, not the total death rate. I don't know what the total infected rate would be over the fall, but it's probably somewhere between 1% and 10% of all children. So that would put the number of kids being killed at somewhere between 3 and 30. In some ways, though, I don't want this math to be corrected. It's much better rhetorically to present it this way and then wait for Northam, eg, to argue "no, it's not 300, it's only 20 kids we plan to kill."
(Btw, the whole essay linked above rebutting the arguments for opening schools is really worth reading.)
posted by chortly at 12:34 PM on July 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
I entirely agree with this rhetorical point, that it should be put in terms of number of killed children, not abstract percentages, much less the current focus on "improvement" instead of absolute levels. That said, I think the numbers here are mistaken: I don't know what the numbers are exactly, but presumably 0.0016 is the death rate for infected children, not the total death rate. I don't know what the total infected rate would be over the fall, but it's probably somewhere between 1% and 10% of all children. So that would put the number of kids being killed at somewhere between 3 and 30. In some ways, though, I don't want this math to be corrected. It's much better rhetorically to present it this way and then wait for Northam, eg, to argue "no, it's not 300, it's only 20 kids we plan to kill."
(Btw, the whole essay linked above rebutting the arguments for opening schools is really worth reading.)
posted by chortly at 12:34 PM on July 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
Don't substitute teachers tend to work in a bunch of different schools? Sometimes changing schools a few times a week? One asymptomatic substitute spreading the virus to classes all over the school district seems like a recipe for a community-wide outbreak.
In many districts, lots of *teachers* (especially of electives) work at multiple schools- I teach at three every day, and there are 6-7 more at my main school who are shared (and none who are shared at the same schools that I am). In addition to being logistically difficult in the best of circumstances without weird schedules, if I got sick would it lead to the quarantine of three entire student bodies? Or just the students I actually teach (my student load is 200-250 in a regular year)?
My district already has a sub shortage, with jobs regularly going unfilled. Our most reliable subs (probably about 1/2 of our total pool) are retired teachers; every one in that category that I have talked to is sitting this year out.
posted by charmedimsure at 12:44 PM on July 11, 2020 [9 favorites]
In many districts, lots of *teachers* (especially of electives) work at multiple schools- I teach at three every day, and there are 6-7 more at my main school who are shared (and none who are shared at the same schools that I am). In addition to being logistically difficult in the best of circumstances without weird schedules, if I got sick would it lead to the quarantine of three entire student bodies? Or just the students I actually teach (my student load is 200-250 in a regular year)?
My district already has a sub shortage, with jobs regularly going unfilled. Our most reliable subs (probably about 1/2 of our total pool) are retired teachers; every one in that category that I have talked to is sitting this year out.
posted by charmedimsure at 12:44 PM on July 11, 2020 [9 favorites]
My district has a severe substitute shortage too. We had multiple days last year where my 3rd grader told me her home room teacher (awesome teacher) was sick and “no subs were available” so the kids were shuffled into other, already over-crowded classrooms. There were often more than 30 kids per room.
My friend is a teacher and we’re seriously helping her develop a sort of helmet to wear out of a plastic jug. Like a deep-sea diver helmet made out of one of those plastic tubs that cheese puffs come in. She teaches esl and is very worried that kids need to see her mouth when she talks. The masks with the clear screens don’t work great for her. So we’re thinking a mask and the head bucket thing, and she could pull the mask down if a kid isn’t understanding her. Welcome to a relatively well-funded district in America.
posted by areaperson at 1:36 PM on July 11, 2020 [3 favorites]
My friend is a teacher and we’re seriously helping her develop a sort of helmet to wear out of a plastic jug. Like a deep-sea diver helmet made out of one of those plastic tubs that cheese puffs come in. She teaches esl and is very worried that kids need to see her mouth when she talks. The masks with the clear screens don’t work great for her. So we’re thinking a mask and the head bucket thing, and she could pull the mask down if a kid isn’t understanding her. Welcome to a relatively well-funded district in America.
posted by areaperson at 1:36 PM on July 11, 2020 [3 favorites]
So our school district (Park City School District, Utah) hasn’t released its plan yet - and although individual teachers are awesome and we believe the district are generally honest actors and will do the best they can given funding and circumstances - we are increasing worried that the plan is going to be “come to school and wear a mask and we’ll try and wipe down surfaces more often” or “online - you’re on your own - try and keep up“.
Honestly Mrs Inflatablekiwi and I are drafting up Plan B which is some sort of small parent run co-op, and Plan C - which is to send the kids with her home to New Zealand for 4-5 months and go do school with their cousins there. It’s a weird thing to say - I grew up with a media diet in NZ of the US being the most wealthy, powerful country with the best healthcare and amazing schools - but honestly I don’t think kids are safe in the US at all (not just ours - but pretty much all kids). It’s just bizarro.
Plan C is fast becoming Plan A. It’s only the thought of the two week hard quarantine in NZ that prevents it being Plan A now. I need to stay in the US for work and my kids (7 and 5 - both with ADHD) are the worst in a hotel room at the best of times - but stuck there for two weeks with only one parent - nightmare.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 2:29 PM on July 11, 2020 [4 favorites]
Honestly Mrs Inflatablekiwi and I are drafting up Plan B which is some sort of small parent run co-op, and Plan C - which is to send the kids with her home to New Zealand for 4-5 months and go do school with their cousins there. It’s a weird thing to say - I grew up with a media diet in NZ of the US being the most wealthy, powerful country with the best healthcare and amazing schools - but honestly I don’t think kids are safe in the US at all (not just ours - but pretty much all kids). It’s just bizarro.
Plan C is fast becoming Plan A. It’s only the thought of the two week hard quarantine in NZ that prevents it being Plan A now. I need to stay in the US for work and my kids (7 and 5 - both with ADHD) are the worst in a hotel room at the best of times - but stuck there for two weeks with only one parent - nightmare.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 2:29 PM on July 11, 2020 [4 favorites]
Hello! I worked for most of my 12+ years as a substitute.
In many places (everywhere I went), substitutes are fully certificated teachers. Some places may still do "emergency" subs where the only requirements are a bachelor's and a background check (which probably doesn't go very far).
Some places still do "building subs," where the sub goes to the same building every day and is sent wherever needed within that building, but as far as I know that's pretty rare these days. In the Seattle area, for example, most districts have an online system that posts available jobs and you can pick them up whenever they're listed in advance, or you get phone calls in the morning. Usually it's a mix of both. There are long-term jobs where you're basically the classroom teacher for reals (I did a lot of this), and lots of one-day jobs in between.
Most subs are either new teachers trying to break in or retired teachers supplementing their income. Lots of people who can only work part-time for their own reasons, too. Typically you get no fucking health insurance at all and no paid days off, because while you are an employee of the district and you're a for-reals teacher, also you aren't really one of our employees and you're not a real teacher and fuck you for thinking you deserve anything. I'm not kidding with this; it's a massive, massive double-standard laid against people in a critical job.
This is to say, yes, a substitute going from school to school is a significant risk of cross-contamination, and the demand for substitutes is going to be HUGE.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:33 PM on July 11, 2020 [14 favorites]
In many places (everywhere I went), substitutes are fully certificated teachers. Some places may still do "emergency" subs where the only requirements are a bachelor's and a background check (which probably doesn't go very far).
Some places still do "building subs," where the sub goes to the same building every day and is sent wherever needed within that building, but as far as I know that's pretty rare these days. In the Seattle area, for example, most districts have an online system that posts available jobs and you can pick them up whenever they're listed in advance, or you get phone calls in the morning. Usually it's a mix of both. There are long-term jobs where you're basically the classroom teacher for reals (I did a lot of this), and lots of one-day jobs in between.
Most subs are either new teachers trying to break in or retired teachers supplementing their income. Lots of people who can only work part-time for their own reasons, too. Typically you get no fucking health insurance at all and no paid days off, because while you are an employee of the district and you're a for-reals teacher, also you aren't really one of our employees and you're not a real teacher and fuck you for thinking you deserve anything. I'm not kidding with this; it's a massive, massive double-standard laid against people in a critical job.
This is to say, yes, a substitute going from school to school is a significant risk of cross-contamination, and the demand for substitutes is going to be HUGE.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:33 PM on July 11, 2020 [14 favorites]
I moved from the US to Amsterdam about a year and a half ago, so I'm watching this situation being handled in two very different ways. Schools are open here -- without masks, which are only required on public transport (I think they should be required in all enclosed spaces like grocery stores, but I'll try to avoid the tempting tangent). Schools were kept open since the beginning, but only for kids who's parents were essential workers, like health care workers or grocery store staff. Here in Amsterdam tablets and laptops were quickly rushed out to kids in need so that all kids learning from home wouldn't be left out. Once the infection rate had been declining for about 3 weeks primary schools were partially opened (with flex schedules and the like). This occurred on May 11 when the 7-day average for new cases/day was 1.8 per 100,000 (the US is currently at 16 per 100,000, our highests was 7 per 100,000). You can see a video of some of the preparations for opening on this kids' news program: https://youtu.be/3rIvHpAWXEU. It's in Dutch, but you can see that the kids aren't being distanced (they were never made to distance from each other in any context here), but the teachers were creating various markers and barriers to keep teachers distanced from students, and they did some flow control to decrease hallway encounters.
Over the next few weeks some hair dressers and physical therapists/massage therapists were allowed to open, masks optional (again, biting my tongue here), primary schools went to fully open, and older students started coming back as well on a partial basis.
On June 1 restaurants and terraces were allowed to open with restrictions -- people had to be able to be seated 1.5 meters apart, and contact information had to be recorded for indoor diners. So, the schools came before the restaurants.
Before anything opened, a clear schedule was announced by the prime minister, with 2-week intervals between openings, and with the caveat that if the infection rate started to go up again, things would be locked back down. While there was enforcement, a lot of fines have been given out, it's been with a gentle hand compared to what I'm used to in the States. The sense here is that the people need to be trusted to be responsible and look out for each other.
And the rates of infections have been steadily declining through it all. We're now at 0.5 new cases per 100,000 per day. Our reproductive number (number of people each infected person infects) dipped below 1 for a while, and is currently at 1.06. Masks are still required on public transit, but that's it. Personally, I still usually wear them in the grocery store, but I'm always the only one. From contact tracing it appears that the overwhelming majority of new cases are from a family member or office worker (so someone you spend a lot of time in close contact with), and a smattering are from gyms, and even fewer from schools and public transit. I'm still avoiding gyms and indoor spaces in restaurants -- but that's easy with the mild summer here. What's painful to watch is how back-to-normal things could have gotten by now if there had been clear leadership in the US communicating a clear plan in a way that fostered cooperation rather than divisiveness.
One last thing because someone mentioned it -- the solution is very much not to give up and let herd immunity happen, and not just because the number of people that will need to die to get there is unacceptable -- but because scientists ::: do not yet know if infection confers immunity ::: or if it behaves like, for instance, dengue fever where you can get it a second time and the second time it's more deadly. (I'm not a virologist, my information comes from the virologists on This Week in Virology.)
posted by antinomia at 3:42 PM on July 11, 2020 [14 favorites]
Over the next few weeks some hair dressers and physical therapists/massage therapists were allowed to open, masks optional (again, biting my tongue here), primary schools went to fully open, and older students started coming back as well on a partial basis.
On June 1 restaurants and terraces were allowed to open with restrictions -- people had to be able to be seated 1.5 meters apart, and contact information had to be recorded for indoor diners. So, the schools came before the restaurants.
Before anything opened, a clear schedule was announced by the prime minister, with 2-week intervals between openings, and with the caveat that if the infection rate started to go up again, things would be locked back down. While there was enforcement, a lot of fines have been given out, it's been with a gentle hand compared to what I'm used to in the States. The sense here is that the people need to be trusted to be responsible and look out for each other.
And the rates of infections have been steadily declining through it all. We're now at 0.5 new cases per 100,000 per day. Our reproductive number (number of people each infected person infects) dipped below 1 for a while, and is currently at 1.06. Masks are still required on public transit, but that's it. Personally, I still usually wear them in the grocery store, but I'm always the only one. From contact tracing it appears that the overwhelming majority of new cases are from a family member or office worker (so someone you spend a lot of time in close contact with), and a smattering are from gyms, and even fewer from schools and public transit. I'm still avoiding gyms and indoor spaces in restaurants -- but that's easy with the mild summer here. What's painful to watch is how back-to-normal things could have gotten by now if there had been clear leadership in the US communicating a clear plan in a way that fostered cooperation rather than divisiveness.
One last thing because someone mentioned it -- the solution is very much not to give up and let herd immunity happen, and not just because the number of people that will need to die to get there is unacceptable -- but because scientists ::: do not yet know if infection confers immunity ::: or if it behaves like, for instance, dengue fever where you can get it a second time and the second time it's more deadly. (I'm not a virologist, my information comes from the virologists on This Week in Virology.)
posted by antinomia at 3:42 PM on July 11, 2020 [14 favorites]
Thanks antinomia - it's really interesting to see how other countries are handling schools. Here in BC, where community spread is low, the plan is to have K-7 students return to school full-time.
Another Vox article: The debate over reopening America’s K-12 schools, explained. Online-only learning is causing big problems for both kids and parents; where the pandemic is still spreading, returning to in-person schooling is risky; there's ways of improving safety but they all cost money. "All broad-based solutions to the problem of education in a pandemic would require government investment and administration. And so far, there’s been little political will to tackle the problems that families are facing this fall. Instead, Trump, for his part, appears to be merely antagonizing school leaders, making threats about pulling funding that he may not even legally be able to fulfill."
The New York Times has obtained a copy of the unreleased CDC guidelines for opening schools. As Trump Demanded Schools Reopen, His Experts Warned of ‘Highest Risk’.
Another Vox article: The debate over reopening America’s K-12 schools, explained. Online-only learning is causing big problems for both kids and parents; where the pandemic is still spreading, returning to in-person schooling is risky; there's ways of improving safety but they all cost money. "All broad-based solutions to the problem of education in a pandemic would require government investment and administration. And so far, there’s been little political will to tackle the problems that families are facing this fall. Instead, Trump, for his part, appears to be merely antagonizing school leaders, making threats about pulling funding that he may not even legally be able to fulfill."
The New York Times has obtained a copy of the unreleased CDC guidelines for opening schools. As Trump Demanded Schools Reopen, His Experts Warned of ‘Highest Risk’.
Groups representing education leaders praised the document, saying after months of mixed messages from the federal government, the inclusion of specific plans could serve as a blue print for schools and families to help navigate the uncertainty that the fall will bring.posted by russilwvong at 4:11 PM on July 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
“What it tells us is left to its own devices, the C.D.C. can do a pretty good job in compiling a comprehensive document that shows the complexity of what institutions are facing,” said Terry W. Hartle, a senior vice president of the American Council on Education, which represents 1,700 college and university presidents and higher education executives.
“The good news is, this is very thoughtful and complete,” he added. “The bad news is, it’s never been released.”
‘I Don’t Want to Go Back’: Many Teachers Are Fearful and Angry Over Pressure to Return (NYT)
Teachers say crucial questions about how schools will stay clean, keep students physically distanced and prevent further spread of the virus have not been answered. And they feel that their own lives, and those of the family members they come home to, are at stake. [...] On social media, teachers across the country promoted the hashtag #14daysnonewcases, with some pledging to refuse to enter classrooms until the coronavirus transmission rate in their counties falls, essentially, to zero.How to Reopen Schools: What Science and Other Countries Teach Us (NYT / MSN reprint)
Now, educators are using some of the same organizing tactics they employed in walkouts over issues of pay and funding in recent years to demand that schools remain closed, at least in the short term. [...] Adding to the confusion, optional guidelines released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in May set out ambitious safety precautions for schools. But the president, and many local school system leaders, have suggested they do not need to be strictly followed, alarming teachers. Many doctors, education experts, parents and policymakers have argued that the social and academic costs of school closures on children need to be weighed alongside the risks of the virus itself.
[...] Now, as teachers listen to a national conversation about reopening schools that many believe elevates the needs of the economy and working parents above the concerns of the classroom work force, many are fearful and angry. They point out that so far Congress has dedicated less than 1 percent of federal pandemic stimulus funds to public schools stretching to meet the costs of reopening safely. [...] Teachers say many of their questions about how schools will operate safely remain unanswered. They point out that some classrooms have windows that do not reliably open to promote air circulation, while school buildings can have aging heating and cooling systems that lack the filtration features that reduce virus transmission. [...] They also worry about access to tests and contact tracing to confirm Covid-19 diagnoses and clarify who in a school might need to isolate at home in the event of a symptomatic student or staff member.
As school districts across the United States consider whether and how to restart in-person classes, their challenge is complicated by a pair of fundamental uncertainties: No nation has tried to send children back to school with the virus raging at levels like America’s, and the scientific research about transmission in classrooms is limited. The World Health Organization has now concluded that the virus is airborne in crowded, indoor spaces with poor ventilation, a description that fits many American schools.posted by katra at 5:07 PM on July 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
[...] “You have to do a lot more than just waving your hands and say make it so,” said Dr. Joshua Sharfstein, a professor of the practice at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. “First you have to control the community spread and then you have to open schools thoughtfully.”
I have to think Trump's entire strategy is an October Surprise, that a treatment will emerge and he'll say "See? I was right: no big deal. Now everyone* can get a shot or whatever and there's nothing to worry about, just like I said. Not like those scaredy-cat Democrats." Pay no attention to the 500K dead by then.
* At participating locations
posted by rhizome at 5:14 PM on July 11, 2020
* At participating locations
posted by rhizome at 5:14 PM on July 11, 2020
> And parents generally focus on sports over education, some only worrying about kids' grades when they're cut from teams or sports participation.
What's your source for this statement?
posted by The corpse in the library at 5:47 PM on July 11, 2020 [3 favorites]
What's your source for this statement?
posted by The corpse in the library at 5:47 PM on July 11, 2020 [3 favorites]
I have to think Trump's entire strategy is an October Surprise, that a treatment will emerge and he'll say "See? I was right: no big deal.
Trump the victim: President complains in private about the pandemic hurting him (WaPo, Jul. 10, 2020, LMT reprint)
Trump the victim: President complains in private about the pandemic hurting him (WaPo, Jul. 10, 2020, LMT reprint)
Despite his bouts of moroseness, Trump can also exhibit optimism not entirely grounded in reality. He has continued to tell advisers, for instance, that he is certain the virus will go away by October and that there will be a “cure” by then — a word he favors over “vaccine.” Then, he adds in these tellings, the economy will rebound overnight and he will win a second term.posted by katra at 6:39 PM on July 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
filthy light thief: And parents generally focus on sports over education, some only worrying about kids' grades when they're cut from teams or sports participation.
The corpse in the library: What's your source for this statement?
I can't find statistics for my first statement, so I'll admit I may be biased based on what I've seen adjacent to high schools (husband of a high school math teacher at four different schools, three of which have had sports programs) as more parents getting involved and engaged with school sports than school education. But the second part is fully informed from my wife talking of parents who only get involved with their kids' education when their grades drop to the point that they're not eligible for participation in sports, kids whose grades have been dipping or low for a while.
But this is a tangent beyond the topic of re-opening schools in the times the COVID-19 pandemic, so I'll leave this at that.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:08 PM on July 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
The corpse in the library: What's your source for this statement?
I can't find statistics for my first statement, so I'll admit I may be biased based on what I've seen adjacent to high schools (husband of a high school math teacher at four different schools, three of which have had sports programs) as more parents getting involved and engaged with school sports than school education. But the second part is fully informed from my wife talking of parents who only get involved with their kids' education when their grades drop to the point that they're not eligible for participation in sports, kids whose grades have been dipping or low for a while.
But this is a tangent beyond the topic of re-opening schools in the times the COVID-19 pandemic, so I'll leave this at that.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:08 PM on July 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
Reopening Schools Will Be a Huge Undertaking. It Must Be Done. (NYT Editorial)
Putting aside the fact that that headline makes the same mistake the AAP and CDC are making, implying that schools must be reopened under all circumstances instead of saying that schools can only be reopened if a bunch of (very difficult) conditions are met, the first few sentences seemed apropos to the sports discussion above:
posted by chortly at 8:53 PM on July 11, 2020 [8 favorites]
Putting aside the fact that that headline makes the same mistake the AAP and CDC are making, implying that schools must be reopened under all circumstances instead of saying that schools can only be reopened if a bunch of (very difficult) conditions are met, the first few sentences seemed apropos to the sports discussion above:
American children need public schools to reopen in the fall. Reading, writing and arithmetic are not even the half of it. Kids need to learn to compete and to cooperate.I know this is not the point of any of this, but putting "compete" before "cooperate" makes this hippy-dippy child of the 70s want to weep for what elite NYT liberalism has become.
posted by chortly at 8:53 PM on July 11, 2020 [8 favorites]
Responding to that bit from NYT, with the Fairfax County Public Schools responses to comments and ideas:
Screw you, NYT Editorial Board, which is "a group of opinion journalists whose views are informed by expertise, research, debate and certain longstanding values. It is separate from the newsroom." But none of these are educators.
OK, this is all depressing, so here's some fun from Gerry Brooks, a principal at an elementary school in Lexington, Kentucky (personal site): How to Open Schools in the Fall and Classroom Job Assignments for this school year...
Oh sorry, it was some bleak humor. Because this is bleak.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:33 PM on July 11, 2020 [9 favorites]
“My kids want to go back to school.”How do you cooperate and compete when 6+ feet apart, wearing a mask? With modified, or limited/ no PE?
I challenge that position. I believe what the kids desire is more abstract. I believe what they want is a return to normalcy. They want their idea of yesterday. And yesterday isn’t on the menu.
“I want my child in school so they can socialize.”
This was the principle reason for our 2 days decision. As I think more on it though, what do we think ‘social’ will look like? There aren’t going to be any lunch table groups, any lockers, any recess games, any study halls, any sitting next to friends, any talking to people in the hallway, any dances. All of that is off the menu. So, when we say that we want the kids to benefit from the social experience, what are we deluding ourselves into thinking in-building socialization will actually look like in the Fall?
Screw you, NYT Editorial Board, which is "a group of opinion journalists whose views are informed by expertise, research, debate and certain longstanding values. It is separate from the newsroom." But none of these are educators.
OK, this is all depressing, so here's some fun from Gerry Brooks, a principal at an elementary school in Lexington, Kentucky (personal site): How to Open Schools in the Fall and Classroom Job Assignments for this school year...
Oh sorry, it was some bleak humor. Because this is bleak.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:33 PM on July 11, 2020 [9 favorites]
It is bleak. But he is pretty awesome pointing out how ridiculous and fucked everything is.
"Errybudy" makes me chuckle errytime he says it.
And he's totally right.
posted by Windopaene at 10:41 PM on July 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
"Errybudy" makes me chuckle errytime he says it.
And he's totally right.
posted by Windopaene at 10:41 PM on July 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
If anyone concerned about "returning" to things hasn't read this yet, then they should: https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them
This is the problem that needs to be overcome for schools. Very few school buildings around the country have the space and ventilation to even attempt anything that might be safer. And, nothing is guaranteed. Man, what a mess.
posted by Citrus at 10:51 PM on July 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
This is the problem that needs to be overcome for schools. Very few school buildings around the country have the space and ventilation to even attempt anything that might be safer. And, nothing is guaranteed. Man, what a mess.
posted by Citrus at 10:51 PM on July 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
Reopened schools in Europe and Asia have largely avoided coronavirus outbreaks. They have lessons for the U.S. (WaPo / MSN reprint)
In Israel, where the virus has been surging again, schools at every level have been affected. By early June, more than 100 schools had been shut and more than 13,000 students and teachers had been sent home to quarantine. [...] Israeli health authorities said they were unsure how many of those cases were the result of the virus being passed around within school buildings.posted by katra at 10:55 PM on July 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
[...] In many nations preparing to reopen school buildings for the first time in the fall, social distancing concerns are dominating the debate. [...] But many countries that resumed in-person classes in May and June have already abandoned some social distancing measures, at least in primary schools. [...] “Basically, the difficulty is enforcing social distancing among students,” said Fontanet of the Institut Pasteur. He said distancing is hard for high school students, but especially for younger kids. “People have more or less given up on that entirely at this stage,” he said. Although schools in Israel initially resumed with strict rules about temperature checks, carefully spaced-out desks and masks, critics complained that the precautions quickly lapsed. “Within two or three days, that all fell away,” said Dan Ben-David, president of the Shoresh Institution for Socioeconomic Research.
I would not say that they have lessons for the US because everything they did requires a minimally functioning central government attempting to suppress spread. Quite frankly I think it's irresponsible to imply to Americans that the current state of affairs leaves room for a non-disastrous policy response. The federal government is going to murder 100ks of people. I don't think we should pretend that it can do otherwise for at best 6 months, assuming multiple miracles even in that case.
If you are a parent in this thread, I hope you are quite clear on the fact that the federal government isn't mistaken about what is safe for your child. They are simply indifferent.
posted by PMdixon at 8:07 AM on July 12, 2020 [6 favorites]
If you are a parent in this thread, I hope you are quite clear on the fact that the federal government isn't mistaken about what is safe for your child. They are simply indifferent.
posted by PMdixon at 8:07 AM on July 12, 2020 [6 favorites]
Our school has announced plans to fully reopen this fall. Extra portable classrooms, HVAC upgrades, videoconference equipment in every classroom for students who are sick at home to keep up, it'll be fine! I remain unconvinced, and if a private school with only two buildings, under 1000 kids, and money to throw at the problem can't guarantee safety, how can the surrounding city district and the rest of the state?
posted by Flannery Culp at 8:43 AM on July 12, 2020
posted by Flannery Culp at 8:43 AM on July 12, 2020
Virus spread, not politics should guide schools, doctors say (AP)
As the Trump administration pushes full steam ahead to force schools to resume in-person education, public health experts warn that a one-size-fits-all reopening could drive infection and death rates even higher. They’re urging a more cautious approach, which many local governments and school districts are already pursuing. There are too many uncertainties and variables, they say, for back-to-school to be back-to-normal.posted by katra at 8:50 AM on July 12, 2020
Where is the virus spreading rapidly? Do students live with aged grandparents? Do teachers have high-risk health conditions that would make online teaching safest? Do infected children easily spread COVID-19 to each other and to adults? Regarding the latter, some evidence suggests they don’t, but a big government study aims to find better proof. Results won’t be available before the fall, and some schools are slated to reopen in just a few weeks. [...] “The single most important thing we can do to keep our schools safe has nothing to do with what happens in school. It’s how well we control COVID-19 in the community,” [Dr. Tom Frieden, former director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention,] said. “Right now there are places around the country where the virus is spreading explosively and it would be difficult if not impossible to operate schools safely until the virus is under better control.”
[...] [Lynn Morales, 49, teaches 8th grade English at a high-poverty public school in Bloomington, Minnesota, and has] heard outrage from parents angry at the prospect of some schools not reopening or incredulous about sending kids back into classrooms. ’’There is no win-win,” she said. ‘’Teachers are used to being scapegoats. This is just a whole new level of anger.’’
Florida wrestles with impossible question: when can schools reopen safely? (Guardian)
Broward county schools are among those still developing a model for students and teachers, now amid public acrimony. In the current “hybrid” proposal, Broward kids would go to in-person classes two to three days per week, and attend virtually on off days. But that plan has split the community. “I don’t care if they sit side by side,” said a poster in a new Facebook group called “Broward parents for the return to school”. The group, with more than 4,400 members, is advocating for full-time, in-person instruction. “The six-feet-apart nonsense is a joke. Just get them back in the classroom so we don’t have a country filled with anti-social dummies.” Members have organized protests, letter-writing campaigns, shared letters from hopeful children, and even made T-shirts reading “five days, face-to-face”.posted by katra at 9:21 AM on July 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
No matter the return-to-school policy, all are fraught with seemingly unanswerable questions. After all, how do you get a five-year-old to keep a mask on? How does a teacher refuse a hug to a crying child? Are children in part-time school eating enough? Are they suffering abuse? Is their mental health deteriorating? Third-grade teacher and single mom Jamie Delerme, whose six-year-old daughter attends Broward schools, described it as a “no-win” situation. “Ask any teacher: we would rather be back in the classroom,” she said. Nevertheless, she called Covid-19 “terrifying” and said she would prefer to teach virtually. In-person instruction is, “more effective, and something we value, but given this pandemic, which is something no one in our lifetime I believe has seen, we have to put away our wants for the greater good”.
Florida reports largest, single-day increase in Covid cases (AP)
According to state Department of Health statistics, 15,299 people tested positive, for a total of 269,811 cases, and 45 deaths were recorded. California had the previous record of daily positive cases — 11,694, set on Wednesday. New York had 11,571 on April 15. [...] A month ago, fewer than 5% of tests came up positive on a daily average. Over the past week, the daily average exceeded 19%. [...]California teachers fight back against pressure to reopen schools (Politico, Jul. 11, 2020)
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis said that even with the rising rates, he still wants the schools to reopen as scheduled next month, saying children have not proven to be vectors for the disease in states and countries where campuses are open. He said while each county will have to come up with procedures, depending on their local infection rate, not opening the schools would exacerbate the achievement gap between high- and low-performing students. “We know there are huge, huge costs for not providing the availability of in-person schooling,” he said. “The risk of corona, fortunately, for students is incredibly low.”
“We hope we don’t have to go there, but if it comes to it, we do retain the right to refuse to work under unsafe conditions,” said David Fisher, president of the Sacramento City Teachers Association. “The virus is raging, and the circumstances that we were thinking we might be dealing with in September only a few weeks ago seem to be changing by the day. It just is looking increasingly unlikely that we will be able to teach in person at any level when schools first open.”posted by katra at 9:55 AM on July 12, 2020
[...] The California Teachers Association on Wednesday called for more school funding while the state grapples with budget cuts, and says districts do not have enough personal protective equipment, room to provide physical distancing or adequate ventilation and cleaning supplies to reopen. Teachers are also leery of a lack of data about childhood transmission of the virus and returning before there is a vaccine. “We should be clear-eyed about this reality,” the union’s president, E. Toby Boyd, said in a statement. “How can we physically reopen schools with lower thresholds of safety than we currently have for restaurants or hair salons?”
montgomery county, md (where confirmed cases seem to be increasing in the 80-120 range daily over the last week or so) yesterday released a draft plan: Considerations for MCPS Fall 2020 Recovery, MCPS Fall2020: Reimagine, Reopen, Recover, which was immediately covered by press accounts of the county's plan to open virtually, but what i see is a long list of state requirements and county aspirations toward some limited classroom instruction -- and announcing a big school board meeting on Tuesday -- capped with the statement that the district "anticipates starting the school year in a virtual-only instructional model given the current public health conditions, to plan for the needs of our families and to provide sufficient training for staff and students on new COVID-19 protocols." the bulk of the document outlines two models of schooling, offering "blended virtual learning" -- with phased implementation across grades and two-days in person anticipated -- and "virtual only learning" with an ultimate goal being "for all grade levels to be in a school rotation by end of November."
i have only scanned it in effort to confirm (or not) certainty expressed in press; but it looks like a thoughtful draft approach, substantive and germane to this discussion. as to the school district where little lurk expects to begin kindergarten in fall... not word one.
posted by 20 year lurk at 10:28 AM on July 12, 2020
i have only scanned it in effort to confirm (or not) certainty expressed in press; but it looks like a thoughtful draft approach, substantive and germane to this discussion. as to the school district where little lurk expects to begin kindergarten in fall... not word one.
posted by 20 year lurk at 10:28 AM on July 12, 2020
In Washington State, the first item on the Office of Superintendent of Public Instruction's To Do list from their Reopening Washington Schools 2020 District Planning Guide is "Support Students Furthest from Educational Justice," ahead of "Prepare for Health and Safety in 2020–21." I find this interesting.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:41 PM on July 12, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:41 PM on July 12, 2020 [2 favorites]
"Unreleased CDC Document on Campus Reopening" (Inside Higher Ed)
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention hasn’t made public a document with information that could aid colleges and universities as they devise plans for reopening in the fall, The New York Times reported Friday.posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 5:07 AM on July 13, 2020
The 69-page document, obtained by the Times and marked “For Internal Use Only,” was intended for federal public health response teams as they are deployed to hot spots around the country.
[...] The CDC issued a number of guidelines in May after, according to The Washington Post, the White House initially shelved them as being “too specific.”
Last week President Trump, who is pushing to reopen schools, blasted the guidelines as too expensive and hard to implement. Vice President Mike Pence announced the CDC this week will be adding to its guidelines for schools to support the administration’s goal of getting students back to school. A Pence spokeswoman said he was only referring to guidelines for K-12 schools, not higher education.
This article isn't great, in my opinion. For instance, this: "schools can reduce the number of surfaces touched by multiple people, for example, by keeping hallway doors open" is not backed by the current scientific findings; airborne transmission is high and surface contact transmission is low, doing this would mean walking the halls would be exponentially dangerous.
And this is just laughable: "Classrooms can be rearranged to reduce transmission, such as by placing desks facing the same direction."
And this doesn't follow the idea to its logical conclusion: "Students or staff members who become sick must stay home in isolation until they have met the CDC’s criteria to return. All contacts of new cases must be traced and quarantined. Any classroom with a reported case will need to be thoroughly disinfected and, if necessary, closed temporarily." No -- not disinfected and if necessary closed -- this means that if one person in a classroom gets sick, literally everybody in the classroom quarantines for fourteen days. And their families? Any cleaners who cleaned the classroom (because this article says cleaners need to clean while classes are in session, not just when students aren't there). What if a teacher is married to another teacher -- does the spouse's classroom also quarantine?
Just a few cases breaks the whole system, not just an "outbreak or explosive spread" (and we don't have testing in my county unless you're symptomatic or pre-op so we wouldn't even KNOW we had an outbreak until it's too late). And that's before we even get to compliance with masking and social distancing. The adults who work at my college can't even do it, how can we expect kids to wear a mask all day? There are so many ways total in-person plans can break down quickly.
This is the only reasonable plan, as far as I am concerned: No One Wins, But No One Dies: What School Must Look Like in Fall of 2020
posted by rabbitrabbit at 5:51 AM on July 13, 2020 [3 favorites]
And this is just laughable: "Classrooms can be rearranged to reduce transmission, such as by placing desks facing the same direction."
And this doesn't follow the idea to its logical conclusion: "Students or staff members who become sick must stay home in isolation until they have met the CDC’s criteria to return. All contacts of new cases must be traced and quarantined. Any classroom with a reported case will need to be thoroughly disinfected and, if necessary, closed temporarily." No -- not disinfected and if necessary closed -- this means that if one person in a classroom gets sick, literally everybody in the classroom quarantines for fourteen days. And their families? Any cleaners who cleaned the classroom (because this article says cleaners need to clean while classes are in session, not just when students aren't there). What if a teacher is married to another teacher -- does the spouse's classroom also quarantine?
Just a few cases breaks the whole system, not just an "outbreak or explosive spread" (and we don't have testing in my county unless you're symptomatic or pre-op so we wouldn't even KNOW we had an outbreak until it's too late). And that's before we even get to compliance with masking and social distancing. The adults who work at my college can't even do it, how can we expect kids to wear a mask all day? There are so many ways total in-person plans can break down quickly.
This is the only reasonable plan, as far as I am concerned: No One Wins, But No One Dies: What School Must Look Like in Fall of 2020
posted by rabbitrabbit at 5:51 AM on July 13, 2020 [3 favorites]
Oh, and I should add, I live in New York State, which is the model of Doing It Right. My governor swears any New Yorker can get tested, and it's just not true. And once you get north of the city, there are a ton of red Trumpy areas that resemble South Carolina when it comes to masking compliance. I have already decided not to send my nine-year-old to a school building this fall. Which I realize is a privileged decision to make. But if everyone who CAN keep their kids home does, then the kids that have to be in school will at least have less vectors to come in contact with.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:18 AM on July 13, 2020
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:18 AM on July 13, 2020
I had to drop off a form at my rheumatologist's office this morning to try to get accommodations to teach online and/or outside only in the fall (I'm an ecologist--teaching outside is what we do anyway). He was not seeing patients today, so it seemed like a pretty safe time to go drop off a form. His office shares its building with a Lab Corp office. Almost every parking place was filled with a person sitting in their car waiting for their turn to get a COVID test. Still more people were pacing around the parking lot or hanging out on the sidewalk. And the reports are that they will not get their results in <7 days.
Nobody knows how bad it is in Georgia because the testing infrastructure is so overwhelmed, but we still had a record high number of new reported cases on Friday. Public PK-12 schools here will mostly start the first week of August, and our university, like many, has reworked our schedule to start Aug 10 so that we will be done before Thanksgiving. It is completely terrifying that anybody thinks we're all going to be inside buildings together for hours everyday having class like usual in 3 weeks.
posted by hydropsyche at 9:56 AM on July 13, 2020 [1 favorite]
Nobody knows how bad it is in Georgia because the testing infrastructure is so overwhelmed, but we still had a record high number of new reported cases on Friday. Public PK-12 schools here will mostly start the first week of August, and our university, like many, has reworked our schedule to start Aug 10 so that we will be done before Thanksgiving. It is completely terrifying that anybody thinks we're all going to be inside buildings together for hours everyday having class like usual in 3 weeks.
posted by hydropsyche at 9:56 AM on July 13, 2020 [1 favorite]
So my apologies for seeming glib in my previous comment - that was not my intention but I acknowledge that's how it sounded to some people. But we have a reopening plan from our local school board (in California) and... all kids are starting online-only. That's full K-12 in our district. And it's both a huge disappointment and at the same time obviously the only good solution! The draft plan (to be approved this week) is fine and covers a lot of stuff but it doesn't cover exactly what the union negotiations were, which I suspect is a much larger deal than the educational model, nor does it discuss teacher PPE and the budget for it. Which I suspect is basically zero, but hopefully not.
In that doc they say 59% of families want full-time, in-person classes which seems low to me, but at the same time it's a reasonably well-to-do district and people all the the same covid case data, which is better in Santa Clara than other parts of California, but very much not good!
So, more of the same, continued frustration for families with multiple working parents and small children. But as the spouse of a teacher, it's at least a small relief that we don't have to pretend that everything is fine with her going into classrooms with insufficient PPE and cases climbing. And it remains insane that schools are closed while Disneyland is open.
And our local Nextdoor group has been less insane than anticipated, although apparently local private schools will be doing in-person classes. Perhaps they have the advantage that they can simply eject any student that doesn't comply with whatever student distancing guidelines they come up with, unlike public schools. So I guess if you have the money for private school tuition your childcare problems are solved. Good luck to the non-unionized private school teachers.
posted by GuyZero at 10:49 AM on July 13, 2020 [4 favorites]
In that doc they say 59% of families want full-time, in-person classes which seems low to me, but at the same time it's a reasonably well-to-do district and people all the the same covid case data, which is better in Santa Clara than other parts of California, but very much not good!
So, more of the same, continued frustration for families with multiple working parents and small children. But as the spouse of a teacher, it's at least a small relief that we don't have to pretend that everything is fine with her going into classrooms with insufficient PPE and cases climbing. And it remains insane that schools are closed while Disneyland is open.
And our local Nextdoor group has been less insane than anticipated, although apparently local private schools will be doing in-person classes. Perhaps they have the advantage that they can simply eject any student that doesn't comply with whatever student distancing guidelines they come up with, unlike public schools. So I guess if you have the money for private school tuition your childcare problems are solved. Good luck to the non-unionized private school teachers.
posted by GuyZero at 10:49 AM on July 13, 2020 [4 favorites]
Los Angeles Unified and San Diego Unified have announced that they'll be online only for reopening:
Unfortunately, much of the research is incomplete and many of the guidelines are vague and contradictory. One fact is clear: those countries that have managed to safely reopen schools have done so with declining infection rates and on-demand testing available. California has neither. The skyrocketing infection rates of the past few weeks make it clear the pandemic is not under control.
Therefore, we are announcing that the new school year will start online only. Instruction will resume on Aug.18 in Los Angeles Unified and Aug. 31 in San Diego Unified, as previously scheduled. Both districts will continue planning for a return to in-person learning during the 2020-21 academic year, as soon as public health conditions allow.
(emphasis mine)
from related NYT article:
The Los Angeles and San Diego unified school districts, which together enroll some 825,000 students, are the largest in the country so far to abandon plans for even a partial physical return to classrooms when they reopen in August.
posted by pennypiper at 12:13 PM on July 13, 2020 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, much of the research is incomplete and many of the guidelines are vague and contradictory. One fact is clear: those countries that have managed to safely reopen schools have done so with declining infection rates and on-demand testing available. California has neither. The skyrocketing infection rates of the past few weeks make it clear the pandemic is not under control.
Therefore, we are announcing that the new school year will start online only. Instruction will resume on Aug.18 in Los Angeles Unified and Aug. 31 in San Diego Unified, as previously scheduled. Both districts will continue planning for a return to in-person learning during the 2020-21 academic year, as soon as public health conditions allow.
(emphasis mine)
from related NYT article:
The Los Angeles and San Diego unified school districts, which together enroll some 825,000 students, are the largest in the country so far to abandon plans for even a partial physical return to classrooms when they reopen in August.
posted by pennypiper at 12:13 PM on July 13, 2020 [1 favorite]
Older children can spread the coronavirus just as much as adults, study finds.
A large new study from South Korea offers an answer: Children younger than age 10 transmit to others much less often than adults do, but the risk is not zero. And those between the ages of 10–19 can spread the virus at least as well as adults do.
(The study has some methodological limits; see the article for details.)
posted by mbrubeck at 4:47 PM on July 18, 2020
A large new study from South Korea offers an answer: Children younger than age 10 transmit to others much less often than adults do, but the risk is not zero. And those between the ages of 10–19 can spread the virus at least as well as adults do.
(The study has some methodological limits; see the article for details.)
posted by mbrubeck at 4:47 PM on July 18, 2020
I'm impressed that Gavin Newsom basically decided for all of California that they are doing online schooling. Good for him. I haven't been thrilled with his decision to let everyone reopen (OBVIOUSLY WRONG) but this is good.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:53 PM on July 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:53 PM on July 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
Newsom's decision helped my district commit to a definite course of action. Distance learning is less than ideal, but it's the least-worst option available.
posted by SPrintF at 8:06 PM on July 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by SPrintF at 8:06 PM on July 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
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Our school district has decided it will be virtual-only for high schoolers, which both of our kids are, and if they were to reverse course on this (as Trump and DeVos are trying to encourage) we'll end up pulling them out to home school.
We are extremely fortunate that if and when my partner returns to work on site I work remotely and have always done so. I'll be happy to do whatever is necessary to help their education at home to keep all of us safe.
posted by jzb at 11:53 AM on July 10, 2020 [22 favorites]