The Demise of the (British) Second-Hand Bookshop
August 28, 2020 11:21 AM Subscribe
Alexander Larman on why Oxfam charity bookshops, “as tremendous as they are, may be the end of the second-hand bookseller.”
Previously on Metafilter: Books for sale
Previously on Metafilter: Books for sale
> it is making a considerably greater amount of profit than any competing bookshop could ever hope to do
A charity bookshop does have an obligation to, you know, raise money for the charity. If Oxfam are undercutting the second hand book industry they are hurting themselves because they could raise more money by charging the same as the booksellers. And Oxfam do have special "boutiques" in a few places which sell the highest value donations, so it's not like they don't understand the business.
I am not convinced that Oxfam are the biggest problem with the book trade.
posted by doiheartwentyone at 11:52 AM on August 28, 2020 [5 favorites]
A charity bookshop does have an obligation to, you know, raise money for the charity. If Oxfam are undercutting the second hand book industry they are hurting themselves because they could raise more money by charging the same as the booksellers. And Oxfam do have special "boutiques" in a few places which sell the highest value donations, so it's not like they don't understand the business.
I am not convinced that Oxfam are the biggest problem with the book trade.
posted by doiheartwentyone at 11:52 AM on August 28, 2020 [5 favorites]
Even if Oxfam sell their books for the same price as other booksellers, their lower costs due to their charitable tax status and volunteer staff means their profit will be higher.
posted by adrianhon at 12:05 PM on August 28, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by adrianhon at 12:05 PM on August 28, 2020 [5 favorites]
> If Oxfam are undercutting the second hand book industry they are hurting themselves because they could raise more money by charging the same as the booksellers.
Not necessarily, since their stock comes from donations and not acquisitions, they may have calculated that a customer might be more likely to buy an armload of books if the prices are lower. Their metric would be revenue-per-customer-visit, irrespective of how many books sold. As long as they still have inventory coming in they can keep this up.
Also the law of organizations becoming about preserving themselves is also true of charities, so the apper management structure of the bookstore operation may have metrics around expansion and sales that are weighted more highly than the final charitable contribution.
posted by Space Coyote at 12:07 PM on August 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
Not necessarily, since their stock comes from donations and not acquisitions, they may have calculated that a customer might be more likely to buy an armload of books if the prices are lower. Their metric would be revenue-per-customer-visit, irrespective of how many books sold. As long as they still have inventory coming in they can keep this up.
Also the law of organizations becoming about preserving themselves is also true of charities, so the apper management structure of the bookstore operation may have metrics around expansion and sales that are weighted more highly than the final charitable contribution.
posted by Space Coyote at 12:07 PM on August 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
I am not convinced that Oxfam are the biggest problem with the book trade.
TFA doesn't say it is.
And to repeat adrianhon's point, profit has to do with both sales and costs and TFA is clear Oxfam's costs are low: Acquisition by donation and volunteer labor. They even hint at a death spiral. Shops go under and some donate their stock to Oxfam.
I used to love roaming around used bookstores; there were five in my (admittedly very educated) high school town of 50k people. Right now I think there are 3 of any quality in reasonable driving range (which covers millions of people). I have no clue what you could possibly do to make this profitable--I personally use e-readers too--but it's sad.
posted by mark k at 12:12 PM on August 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
TFA doesn't say it is.
And to repeat adrianhon's point, profit has to do with both sales and costs and TFA is clear Oxfam's costs are low: Acquisition by donation and volunteer labor. They even hint at a death spiral. Shops go under and some donate their stock to Oxfam.
I used to love roaming around used bookstores; there were five in my (admittedly very educated) high school town of 50k people. Right now I think there are 3 of any quality in reasonable driving range (which covers millions of people). I have no clue what you could possibly do to make this profitable--I personally use e-readers too--but it's sad.
posted by mark k at 12:12 PM on August 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
If the used book economic system had started the other way - if we had grown up with a non profit, volunteer labor system and a strong norm to will private libraries to them - wouldn’t Metafilter be even more horrified at the business being taken over by private enterprise?
I’d miss private used bookshops too, but a social subsidy towards more cheap book ownership isn’t bad. What’s the effect on public libraries?
posted by clew at 12:15 PM on August 28, 2020 [2 favorites]
I’d miss private used bookshops too, but a social subsidy towards more cheap book ownership isn’t bad. What’s the effect on public libraries?
posted by clew at 12:15 PM on August 28, 2020 [2 favorites]
Every book that the Oxfam bookshop stocks has been donated, meaning firstly that there are no acquisition costs to be borne, and secondly, as the majority of the staff are volunteers, the only costs of employment are that of a manager, who can often be responsible for several different shops.
A year ago on 8 Out of 10 Cats Does Countdown, Sean Lock suggested "Shoplift from charity shops. They didn't pay for any of his stuff, so whose it is anyway? Plus the security in charity shops is usually an old woman in a tabard."
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:18 PM on August 28, 2020 [8 favorites]
After reading the article, I think the writer is conflating several different forces.
To quote his own words:
"Yet by the time that I visited it as a student two decades ago, it was clearly on its last legs. Its stock was overpriced and tired; there were countless examples of dull, battered mid-20th century history and literature for sale, but unless one had a desperate urge to own the collected criticism of Lord David Cecil or AC Bradley, it offered remarkably little for the bibliophile."
He seems to think this is specifically because of the Oxfam bookstores. However, this description could be used for a certain category of used bookstore on both sides of the Atlantic. I would call them the "literary" used bookstore. I personally couldn't find anything in these stores because I like certain genres (science fiction, fantasy, romance) which they generally don't carry. And boy, if you want to be looked down on, just ask for those sections in one of these bookstores!
There are two separate problems that he is combining into one problem. One is that the Oxfam bookshops are able to undercut the literary used bookstores. The other is that the literary used bookstores became more and more exclusive about what they would carry, until they got to a list that was exactly the tired mid-century books he describes and nothing else.
And there's even a third problem in here. If you brought books to sell at those literary bookstores that were outside of their narrow scope, you'd be looked down upon. If you brought books to the Oxfam-type stores, they would be grateful. If you have twenty books from your deceased great aunt that you need to get rid of, which experience do you want to have?
posted by rednikki at 12:23 PM on August 28, 2020 [11 favorites]
To quote his own words:
"Yet by the time that I visited it as a student two decades ago, it was clearly on its last legs. Its stock was overpriced and tired; there were countless examples of dull, battered mid-20th century history and literature for sale, but unless one had a desperate urge to own the collected criticism of Lord David Cecil or AC Bradley, it offered remarkably little for the bibliophile."
He seems to think this is specifically because of the Oxfam bookstores. However, this description could be used for a certain category of used bookstore on both sides of the Atlantic. I would call them the "literary" used bookstore. I personally couldn't find anything in these stores because I like certain genres (science fiction, fantasy, romance) which they generally don't carry. And boy, if you want to be looked down on, just ask for those sections in one of these bookstores!
There are two separate problems that he is combining into one problem. One is that the Oxfam bookshops are able to undercut the literary used bookstores. The other is that the literary used bookstores became more and more exclusive about what they would carry, until they got to a list that was exactly the tired mid-century books he describes and nothing else.
And there's even a third problem in here. If you brought books to sell at those literary bookstores that were outside of their narrow scope, you'd be looked down upon. If you brought books to the Oxfam-type stores, they would be grateful. If you have twenty books from your deceased great aunt that you need to get rid of, which experience do you want to have?
posted by rednikki at 12:23 PM on August 28, 2020 [11 favorites]
Decades, even centuries, of history and tradition are disappearing because of market forces...
The invisible hand of the market seems to hold an eraser an awful lot of the time.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:56 PM on August 28, 2020 [9 favorites]
The invisible hand of the market seems to hold an eraser an awful lot of the time.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:56 PM on August 28, 2020 [9 favorites]
Collectors seem like an exogenous sorting mechanism. Sorting through thrift shop shelves in the States is exhausting, but we do pick up second hand books and physical books, especially for the kids as a decent alternative to screen time. On the flip side, once the books are outgrown, we want to donate them, which is tricky now. Even the Baltimore Book Thing is on hiatus, donation sites are stuffed, physical classrooms aren’t really happening, and libraries are focused on transactions at the door.
We will still purchase at bookshops, but also appreciate libraries (especially those that are accessible and support print disabilities) and watch efforts like the Hathi Trust with interest.
posted by childofTethys at 1:31 PM on August 28, 2020
We will still purchase at bookshops, but also appreciate libraries (especially those that are accessible and support print disabilities) and watch efforts like the Hathi Trust with interest.
posted by childofTethys at 1:31 PM on August 28, 2020
The booksellers I know make regular scouting trips to charity shops. They know which ones tend to be target-rich, and they scoop out the good stuff several times a month. None of them feel like charity shops imperil their business: it's quite the opposite.
(Granted, I'm in the U.S., and the bookselling ecology might be different here.)
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 1:36 PM on August 28, 2020 [7 favorites]
(Granted, I'm in the U.S., and the bookselling ecology might be different here.)
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 1:36 PM on August 28, 2020 [7 favorites]
This seems like a great time to point people to a great BBC show that ran for 3 seasons (18 episodes) Black Books which has been streaming on Amazon Prime for a long while now. Its a great show featuring the twit from Shawn of the Dead, Dylan Moran, and Bill Bailey as his foil.
posted by Nanukthedog at 1:45 PM on August 28, 2020 [12 favorites]
posted by Nanukthedog at 1:45 PM on August 28, 2020 [12 favorites]
Black Books is very funny, but some folks may want to know that Graham Linehan directed every episode of the first season.
I don’t think he was involved with subsequent seasons.
posted by FallibleHuman at 2:25 PM on August 28, 2020 [4 favorites]
I don’t think he was involved with subsequent seasons.
posted by FallibleHuman at 2:25 PM on August 28, 2020 [4 favorites]
I'm in Canada and buy a ton of books at thrift shops, because they're cheaper (around $3 a book) and I enjoy the hunt. I also buy books at more literary secondhand bookshops, where I don't mind paying a little more (around $7–10), because I like to support them, and because I can more reliably find things I'm looking for.
The two types of shops seem to coexist more or less happily here. The more literary shops definitely buy books from thrift stores to resell, and of course they also do things like sell textbooks to university students, or selling books online, which the thrift stores do not. Secondhand bookshops are definitely becoming rarer and rarer, but I suspect this is because of Amazon and ebooks, not thrift shops.
posted by oulipian at 3:12 PM on August 28, 2020 [3 favorites]
The two types of shops seem to coexist more or less happily here. The more literary shops definitely buy books from thrift stores to resell, and of course they also do things like sell textbooks to university students, or selling books online, which the thrift stores do not. Secondhand bookshops are definitely becoming rarer and rarer, but I suspect this is because of Amazon and ebooks, not thrift shops.
posted by oulipian at 3:12 PM on August 28, 2020 [3 favorites]
I see his point, although at least one of the examples sure sounds like a case of the current family bookseller neglecting to curate purchases, not bookstore death by Oxfam. (The same thing did in the legendary Acres of Books in Long Beach, which still yielded some real goodies in the 90s but had collapsed into a vast expanse of dreary and poorly-chosen volumes by the time it closed in 2008.)
posted by thomas j wise at 6:40 PM on August 28, 2020
posted by thomas j wise at 6:40 PM on August 28, 2020
The more idiosyncratic, personal, curated a bookshop is, the less likely it is to survive the founder, or indeed a shift in tastes, yeah? Some of the failing bookshops are older than a generation (rent is doing them in where I live) but we might just be at the other end of a wave of bookshop-founders.
posted by clew at 7:28 PM on August 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by clew at 7:28 PM on August 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
(rent is doing them in where I live)
Cf Book Row in Manhattan as was.
posted by BWA at 4:56 AM on August 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
Cf Book Row in Manhattan as was.
posted by BWA at 4:56 AM on August 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
I used to work at a secondhand bookshop, most of our money came from reselling textbooks and collector's items online. When the donations came in, we'd price them with a price scanner and pull the books with higher value off the floor for the online business. It meant there were a lot of out of date business and self help books , and books in poorer condition on the floor.
Once the owner's mother died, he moved all the stock to a warehouse and just went fully online.
posted by subdee at 8:33 AM on August 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
Once the owner's mother died, he moved all the stock to a warehouse and just went fully online.
posted by subdee at 8:33 AM on August 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
BTW most of the books at the secondhand bookshop were also donations. We usually just gave people store credit and a lot of people dropped off books - even expensive textbooks - without expecting any kind of payment. I think they just didn't have space anymore and they were happy the books were going to a shop and not the garbage.
posted by subdee at 8:35 AM on August 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by subdee at 8:35 AM on August 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
BWA‘s link describes Book Row losing to high rent in the 1960s - are old used bookstores now mostly the ones established in the exodus from that?
posted by clew at 9:52 AM on August 29, 2020
posted by clew at 9:52 AM on August 29, 2020
Yeah, no doubt the UK bookshop scene has suffered from Oxfam/charity shops being able to sell books. But, essentially, to say that second hand bookshops withered and died because there is a type of shop that has free stock and doesn't have to pay for staff is a weak analysis. Firstly, books just aren't the cultural touchstone that they were in the 1980s and before. And secondly, the structures of renting or owning a shop on the high street in most towns is massively different. Oxfam can rent a shop because it's owned by a large company (that is connected to the charity, or is a charity, whatever) that has an excellent credit rating and therefore a good risk to the multinational that owns the high street shop. A beardy man with a large collection of books and a cat that smells of milk does not have the same standing in the eyes of the multinational corporation that has invested in UK commercial real estate.
posted by The River Ivel at 1:52 PM on August 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by The River Ivel at 1:52 PM on August 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
The main problem I have with every Oxfam bookshop I've been in is that they're nasty. Crowded, badly curated, staffed by people with little or no knowledge or interest in the stock, and less interest in conversation. There may be a few treasures to be found but the prices will be what you'd pay online, because that's where they check them.
posted by Hogshead at 3:33 PM on August 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Hogshead at 3:33 PM on August 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
What a dumb article, conflating the Oxford experience with Oxfam's change in direction. He could have noted that the pub chain JD Wetherspoon is the largest buyer of second hand hardback books in the UK.
The death of the second hand bookshop has been heralded for 30 years. Dudley (yes) now has a fabulous second hand bookshop which has been operating for nearly two years and now has two employees.
I work in charity income generation as an entrepreneur in residence and it is fair to say that some things don't work for income generation. Charities saw shops as the grail to avoid reliance on donors, but they do so at the steep cost of being unable to charge effective prices for books that any online dealer will mark up and sit on until it is sold. What did Oxfam do with the books it removed from its shops? The vast majority were pulped or landfilled. It is very rare for charities to sell on stock in bulk to independents who specialise in their goods, and charity shops are hardly specific. I worked with one such independent for 1.5 years who purchased dead stock from Save The Children. If you want to see what won't sell even at charity shop prices in the UK, message me and I'll send the address.
posted by parmanparman at 5:15 PM on August 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
The death of the second hand bookshop has been heralded for 30 years. Dudley (yes) now has a fabulous second hand bookshop which has been operating for nearly two years and now has two employees.
I work in charity income generation as an entrepreneur in residence and it is fair to say that some things don't work for income generation. Charities saw shops as the grail to avoid reliance on donors, but they do so at the steep cost of being unable to charge effective prices for books that any online dealer will mark up and sit on until it is sold. What did Oxfam do with the books it removed from its shops? The vast majority were pulped or landfilled. It is very rare for charities to sell on stock in bulk to independents who specialise in their goods, and charity shops are hardly specific. I worked with one such independent for 1.5 years who purchased dead stock from Save The Children. If you want to see what won't sell even at charity shop prices in the UK, message me and I'll send the address.
posted by parmanparman at 5:15 PM on August 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
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