Democracy does not happen by accident
October 31, 2020 11:49 AM Subscribe
Things fall apart in the United States — and Canada takes a hard look in the mirror. The United States has offered the world a demonstration of how things can fall apart — not in one cataclysmic moment, but slowly and steadily over a long period of time as institutions and ideas erode and crumble.
Every other country on earth has to deal with the ramifications of what's happening now in the U.S. But beyond those consequences, there's another question for every other democracy: how do you make sure your own country doesn't end up like that? [slCBC]
I really appreciate the CBC publishing this. Our media ecosystem is far from perfect, and our democracy even farther, but we still have a strong public broadcaster and that's a start, dammit.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:08 PM on October 31, 2020 [13 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 12:08 PM on October 31, 2020 [13 favorites]
If "American-style politics" was a Canadian insult, what was meant by it? Racism? Jingoism? Being beholden to corporate interests?
According to this article, “crass populism, open racism and hyper-capitalist ideology.” (Which it argues Canada has too.)
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:41 PM on October 31, 2020 [11 favorites]
According to this article, “crass populism, open racism and hyper-capitalist ideology.” (Which it argues Canada has too.)
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:41 PM on October 31, 2020 [11 favorites]
> what was meant by it?
If I had to pick one example: Benghazi. Everything about that.
posted by bonehead at 12:51 PM on October 31, 2020 [7 favorites]
If I had to pick one example: Benghazi. Everything about that.
posted by bonehead at 12:51 PM on October 31, 2020 [7 favorites]
If "American-style politics" was a Canadian insult, what was meant by it?
I can't explain it well, but for me it's just the extreme polarity, the fact that politicians attack others personally rather than each other's platforms. I mean, I think the worst our cons came up with for an insult to Trudeau was "He's just not ready."
Plus it feels like the campaigning goes on forever omg.
posted by aclevername at 1:00 PM on October 31, 2020 [11 favorites]
I can't explain it well, but for me it's just the extreme polarity, the fact that politicians attack others personally rather than each other's platforms. I mean, I think the worst our cons came up with for an insult to Trudeau was "He's just not ready."
Plus it feels like the campaigning goes on forever omg.
posted by aclevername at 1:00 PM on October 31, 2020 [11 favorites]
Single Transferable Vote in multi member constituencies. Prevent people from gaining power without a broad consensus since its a proportional voting system. Better than party list proportional voting systems since individuals face electoral accountability.
posted by DoveBrown at 1:03 PM on October 31, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by DoveBrown at 1:03 PM on October 31, 2020 [7 favorites]
If I had to pick one example: Benghazi. Everything about that.
Which is to say: the politics of posture. There's absolutely no "there" there, but it doesn't matter. Engage symbolically, not substantially. Say it like it's a scandal often enough and that's good enough. Many conservative leaners have a psychology where they don't actually *care* to find out if it's a scandal, it's enough that it can be used as a club. "Her emails." "Hunter Biden's Laptop." It's not an understanding, it's a symbological suitcase someone can pack whatever they want into. And the more people say it -- or the more media mentions you can make -- the stronger the symbol becomes.
posted by weston at 1:14 PM on October 31, 2020 [37 favorites]
Which is to say: the politics of posture. There's absolutely no "there" there, but it doesn't matter. Engage symbolically, not substantially. Say it like it's a scandal often enough and that's good enough. Many conservative leaners have a psychology where they don't actually *care* to find out if it's a scandal, it's enough that it can be used as a club. "Her emails." "Hunter Biden's Laptop." It's not an understanding, it's a symbological suitcase someone can pack whatever they want into. And the more people say it -- or the more media mentions you can make -- the stronger the symbol becomes.
posted by weston at 1:14 PM on October 31, 2020 [37 favorites]
from the article.
The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse:...
American politics is Canada's second-favourite spectator sport
True, just watch 'Heartland' and 'Yellowstone' back to back.
posted by clavdivs at 1:35 PM on October 31, 2020 [1 favorite]
The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse:...
American politics is Canada's second-favourite spectator sport
True, just watch 'Heartland' and 'Yellowstone' back to back.
posted by clavdivs at 1:35 PM on October 31, 2020 [1 favorite]
I mean, I think the worst our cons came up with for an insult to Trudeau was "He's just not ready."
Here's the "He's just not ready" attack ad I most remember, for anyone wondering what Canadian-style political attack ads look like.
posted by swr at 1:55 PM on October 31, 2020 [4 favorites]
Here's the "He's just not ready" attack ad I most remember, for anyone wondering what Canadian-style political attack ads look like.
posted by swr at 1:55 PM on October 31, 2020 [4 favorites]
If "American-style politics" was a Canadian insult, what was meant by it?
Money and methods, maybe.
Interestingly, former PM Stephen Harper is now running a group called the IDU, which is made up of right-wing populist political parties from around the world. Its treasurer is a former US Republican Party operative, with funding ties to the extremist-right Koch brothers. The IDU helps populist movements with advice on how to gather information on voters and manipulate and suppress voting. In his new role, Harper has expressed public support for Hungary's fascistic PM.
If the uprise of other far-right fascist movements like FN/RN, PVV, AfD are indicators, he and his operation are probably worth keeping sharp eyes on -- people who help move money and contacts around in the background. Those European parties, in particular, have received a far bit of logistical and financial support from the Kremlin to help destabilize their countries, and Canada has its share of celebrities who might emulate Trump as a local despot.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:02 PM on October 31, 2020 [30 favorites]
Money and methods, maybe.
Interestingly, former PM Stephen Harper is now running a group called the IDU, which is made up of right-wing populist political parties from around the world. Its treasurer is a former US Republican Party operative, with funding ties to the extremist-right Koch brothers. The IDU helps populist movements with advice on how to gather information on voters and manipulate and suppress voting. In his new role, Harper has expressed public support for Hungary's fascistic PM.
If the uprise of other far-right fascist movements like FN/RN, PVV, AfD are indicators, he and his operation are probably worth keeping sharp eyes on -- people who help move money and contacts around in the background. Those European parties, in particular, have received a far bit of logistical and financial support from the Kremlin to help destabilize their countries, and Canada has its share of celebrities who might emulate Trump as a local despot.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:02 PM on October 31, 2020 [30 favorites]
what was meant by it?
Only a few states have to be catered to because of the electoral college system that was set up 200 years ago with no forethought. It pays to say anything to those states to get all of their electoral votes and swing into a win. Politics is a battle not for the most people, but only for those people in those places where that one extra vote gets you a bunch of electoral votes. Politicians can cater to the few and win, and they'll make whatever talking points or promises to get those electoral votes. We could fix this by going full popular vote and/or states splitting electoral college votes based on their constituent's votes. But it's far too easy to pander to a few and get a windfall.
In any election it only comes down to a few states and those are the only ones that matter. It's all performance art to win the state by a small fraction and collect all the votes. 90% of the BS doesn't matter to the states that are so Blue/Red that nothing will change, it's only the handful of states that can flip it one way or another.
posted by zengargoyle at 2:12 PM on October 31, 2020 [4 favorites]
Only a few states have to be catered to because of the electoral college system that was set up 200 years ago with no forethought. It pays to say anything to those states to get all of their electoral votes and swing into a win. Politics is a battle not for the most people, but only for those people in those places where that one extra vote gets you a bunch of electoral votes. Politicians can cater to the few and win, and they'll make whatever talking points or promises to get those electoral votes. We could fix this by going full popular vote and/or states splitting electoral college votes based on their constituent's votes. But it's far too easy to pander to a few and get a windfall.
In any election it only comes down to a few states and those are the only ones that matter. It's all performance art to win the state by a small fraction and collect all the votes. 90% of the BS doesn't matter to the states that are so Blue/Red that nothing will change, it's only the handful of states that can flip it one way or another.
posted by zengargoyle at 2:12 PM on October 31, 2020 [4 favorites]
Countess Elena: If "American-style politics" was a Canadian insult, what was meant by it?
I'd elevate it with something that makes us Canadians sound noble, but I think it might be just a slightly more sophisticated way to say, "Americans, so rude."
posted by clawsoon at 2:22 PM on October 31, 2020 [5 favorites]
I'd elevate it with something that makes us Canadians sound noble, but I think it might be just a slightly more sophisticated way to say, "Americans, so rude."
posted by clawsoon at 2:22 PM on October 31, 2020 [5 favorites]
From a recent thread: Canadian culture is acting like Australia, but talking like New Zealand, and thinking that makes you better than Americans.
posted by clawsoon at 2:32 PM on October 31, 2020 [12 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 2:32 PM on October 31, 2020 [12 favorites]
If "American-style politics" was a Canadian insult, what was meant by it?
It's a bit of a moving target, which I think is what makes it so dangerous in Canada right now.
That's it but I will go on.
What I personally find most disturbing in American politics is that Americans seem to expect that their politicians will dismiss, blockade, or even let die, people that don't vote for them. And they expect them to block the other party even when working together is better for the people.
It's very, very transactional.
I think in Canadian politics there remains a hope that people choose a political party on ideals, but their base desire is to make things better for Canadians. Or Albertans, or Francophone Quebecois or...like it can get tribal too but the tribal lines are not solely drawn on "the people who vote for me." And that the parties will work together when the chips are down. That holding a government to account is necessary, but it's for a common good, not just to make them look bad.
This is shifting and it worries me.
Doug Ford may be the exception to this (and why he's known as 'Trump lite'), but in a way I think he rides on the Ford Nation coattails where the mythology was, Rob Ford picks up his phone and gets your speed bump put in. And I think where he does reach Ontario residents it's when he's on saying "we're going to protect all the people of Ontario" and working with others.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:38 PM on October 31, 2020 [6 favorites]
It's a bit of a moving target, which I think is what makes it so dangerous in Canada right now.
That's it but I will go on.
What I personally find most disturbing in American politics is that Americans seem to expect that their politicians will dismiss, blockade, or even let die, people that don't vote for them. And they expect them to block the other party even when working together is better for the people.
It's very, very transactional.
I think in Canadian politics there remains a hope that people choose a political party on ideals, but their base desire is to make things better for Canadians. Or Albertans, or Francophone Quebecois or...like it can get tribal too but the tribal lines are not solely drawn on "the people who vote for me." And that the parties will work together when the chips are down. That holding a government to account is necessary, but it's for a common good, not just to make them look bad.
This is shifting and it worries me.
Doug Ford may be the exception to this (and why he's known as 'Trump lite'), but in a way I think he rides on the Ford Nation coattails where the mythology was, Rob Ford picks up his phone and gets your speed bump put in. And I think where he does reach Ontario residents it's when he's on saying "we're going to protect all the people of Ontario" and working with others.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:38 PM on October 31, 2020 [6 favorites]
If "American-style politics" was a Canadian insult, what was meant by it? Racism? Jingoism? Being beholden to corporate interests? There's a lot wrong with us.
I personally avoid the term, because Canadians who use it (IMHO) are usually not interested in dealing with structural inequalities under capitalism, or systemic racism in their own backyard. They'd rather chalk up the things that make Canada a decent place in aggregate as some sort of inherent national character, which is just more jingoism that's just another Toby Keith song.
In my (limited by my own POV) experience, it can mean a lot of different things. A few random thought about things I've anecdotally observed about it over the years:
It has a bit to do with everything being up for local election in the U.S. that fuels red-meat political fights (e.g., lower-court judges, sherriffs, local commissioners of this and that, etc.) over local administrative matters that generally go unremarked upon here.
The process of voting in general elections at the municipal, provincial, and federal level. It's a very simple process in Canada, owing to the administration of elections by central arms-length bodies (Elections Canada and its provincial counterparts). People across the political spectrum (within reason) often look at the the administration of elections in the U.S. as a patchwork, partisan mess.
Unhinged gun worship. If someone walked into a store or was just wandering down the street openly carrying a gun, they'd be taken down by the cops tout de suite. It's simply not done, because it's illegal, and the vast majority are fine with that.
See also: loudmouthed evangelical Christianity. Canadians like their religiously-motivated bigotry obfuscated in general.
Health care. Canada is not unique in having a form of universal health care, but it's viewed as a point of pride even among people who I'd describe as "generally fiscally conservative but not rabid ideologues about it." This goes double for Canadian snowbirds who might generally complain about taxes being too high in Canada and wanting "smaller government" but who have also been on the ass end of an out-of-country billing snafu for a medical emergency while they were wintering in Florida and can contrast that nightmare with their last ER or GP visit here where they didn't have to give a second thought to billing because it's not a thing they see or worry about.
The frustrating thing about people like this is that they'll still vote for politicians who want to hack away at the public system, so it gets back to simplistic bromides about "U.S.-style health care" being bad, but no thought given to the socialist values that actually built the Canadian system.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:39 PM on October 31, 2020 [29 favorites]
I personally avoid the term, because Canadians who use it (IMHO) are usually not interested in dealing with structural inequalities under capitalism, or systemic racism in their own backyard. They'd rather chalk up the things that make Canada a decent place in aggregate as some sort of inherent national character, which is just more jingoism that's just another Toby Keith song.
In my (limited by my own POV) experience, it can mean a lot of different things. A few random thought about things I've anecdotally observed about it over the years:
It has a bit to do with everything being up for local election in the U.S. that fuels red-meat political fights (e.g., lower-court judges, sherriffs, local commissioners of this and that, etc.) over local administrative matters that generally go unremarked upon here.
The process of voting in general elections at the municipal, provincial, and federal level. It's a very simple process in Canada, owing to the administration of elections by central arms-length bodies (Elections Canada and its provincial counterparts). People across the political spectrum (within reason) often look at the the administration of elections in the U.S. as a patchwork, partisan mess.
Unhinged gun worship. If someone walked into a store or was just wandering down the street openly carrying a gun, they'd be taken down by the cops tout de suite. It's simply not done, because it's illegal, and the vast majority are fine with that.
See also: loudmouthed evangelical Christianity. Canadians like their religiously-motivated bigotry obfuscated in general.
Health care. Canada is not unique in having a form of universal health care, but it's viewed as a point of pride even among people who I'd describe as "generally fiscally conservative but not rabid ideologues about it." This goes double for Canadian snowbirds who might generally complain about taxes being too high in Canada and wanting "smaller government" but who have also been on the ass end of an out-of-country billing snafu for a medical emergency while they were wintering in Florida and can contrast that nightmare with their last ER or GP visit here where they didn't have to give a second thought to billing because it's not a thing they see or worry about.
The frustrating thing about people like this is that they'll still vote for politicians who want to hack away at the public system, so it gets back to simplistic bromides about "U.S.-style health care" being bad, but no thought given to the socialist values that actually built the Canadian system.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:39 PM on October 31, 2020 [29 favorites]
In the US, your political party is your team (for the Republicans especially) which you Must Not Criticize and the President is a symbolic father and King. In Canada, there is more of a view that the Prime Minister is a civil servant whom you, as a citizen, employ, and it's your job to gripe if they are doing a shitty job. Even if you have campaigned for a certain party, the day they are elected is the time to start criticizing them if they do a bad job. Corruption is much more tolerated -- most things that can bring down a Minister in Canada are business as usual in the US.
posted by benzenedream at 3:01 PM on October 31, 2020 [16 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 3:01 PM on October 31, 2020 [16 favorites]
90% of the BS doesn't matter to the states that are so Blue/Red that nothing will change
The Socialist wasteland known as California went red for every single presidential election between Johnson in `64 and Clinton in `92. Hell, even though Clinton won the state again in `96, Gov Pete Wilson rode the Racist Vote (by backing Prop 187, denying all State services to undocumented immigrants) in to re-election. Things definitely do not stay the same.
posted by sideshow at 3:11 PM on October 31, 2020 [9 favorites]
The Socialist wasteland known as California went red for every single presidential election between Johnson in `64 and Clinton in `92. Hell, even though Clinton won the state again in `96, Gov Pete Wilson rode the Racist Vote (by backing Prop 187, denying all State services to undocumented immigrants) in to re-election. Things definitely do not stay the same.
posted by sideshow at 3:11 PM on October 31, 2020 [9 favorites]
The one big difference between the political landscape of the US and that of Canada is that the latter has a viable socialist component. The threat of socialism is enough to keep the conservatives and liberals from getting too crazy.
posted by No Robots at 3:55 PM on October 31, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by No Robots at 3:55 PM on October 31, 2020 [1 favorite]
My belief is that Canada's political strength is like New Zealand's. It's a function of not having an out of control right wing media presence. There is no equivalent to Fox News or the NY Post or British tabloids and the Telegraph or their ilk in Canada. They tried having a Fox News style cable channel and it folded from poor ratings in a year or two.
I'm not sure why the far right media has never had a huge presence in Canada and suspect it may simply be because the eye of Sauron has been focused elsewhere.
posted by srboisvert at 5:03 PM on October 31, 2020 [17 favorites]
I'm not sure why the far right media has never had a huge presence in Canada and suspect it may simply be because the eye of Sauron has been focused elsewhere.
posted by srboisvert at 5:03 PM on October 31, 2020 [17 favorites]
How much sway does News Corp. have in Canada? Because it does look like the recent malaise doesn't so much affect the anglosphere as the murdosphere (the USA, Brexitland and Australia). For one, New Zealand, where Murdoch has little influence, appears to be a counterexample.
posted by acb at 5:14 PM on October 31, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by acb at 5:14 PM on October 31, 2020 [2 favorites]
It’s almost as if having a well-funded, right-wing media empire operating in your country, working for decades to shift the Overton Window toward asshole conservatism and reactionary ideology, foment broad public dissent, and elevate racism, xenophobia, and nationalism is actually unhealthy for a country’s political discourse.
posted by darkstar at 5:26 PM on October 31, 2020 [40 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 5:26 PM on October 31, 2020 [40 favorites]
I wonder if "American-style politics" is something that some Canadian candidate will discover works if toned down some. And if it is effective, whether it our explosive use of it will be an inevitable end game. That seems to be what happened here - some poll/focus group determined that negative advertising was more effective and the rest was history.
posted by rtimmel at 5:41 PM on October 31, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by rtimmel at 5:41 PM on October 31, 2020 [1 favorite]
There is a serious right-wing media presence in Canada. It originated with Alberta Report (full disclosure: I was the librarian and wrote for AR, in fact, I'm proud to say I have a piece in the very last issue, before it became Western Report). The founder of AR is Ted Byfield, still alive and kicking. In fact, I was at his 90th birthday party a couple of years ago. Anyhoo, a lot of the alumni from AR went on to high position in the conservative movement. Notable in the media is Ken Whyte, who established the National Post, which is basically a tarted-up version of AR. There is also Ezra Levant's Rebel Media, and Western Standard, a ghost version of AR. (No links provided: I don't want to encourage these guys).
This whole complex is "American style" by design. It certainly does work.
posted by No Robots at 5:48 PM on October 31, 2020 [8 favorites]
This whole complex is "American style" by design. It certainly does work.
posted by No Robots at 5:48 PM on October 31, 2020 [8 favorites]
The thing is, Canada does have a well-funded, right-wing media empire. A few, actually. We've got entire swaths of the country where voting for a particular party is absolute anathema. Right-leaning parties that have been entirely consumed by their far-right wing to the point that the establishment conservatives that might be willing to compromise with their opposites across the aisle just don't exist anymore, and haven't since the 1980's. And even our Liberal parties, federal and provincial, too often look away and refuse to put a stop to the massive amounts of racism and discrimination suffered by our first peoples.
So what's different in Canada? Guns. Not having revolution and rebellion against whoever you view as an oppressive government baked into our national myth. Non-partisan government bodies that run elections so we really don't have any issues with gerrymandering because one party never gets total control over drawing ridings on a map. And most white Conservative leaders have figured out they've actually got a lot in common with religious, traditionally conservative PoC and are bringing them into the fold instead of being xenophobic or racist against them.
But it certainly isn't perfect. We've got one federal party on the right and three that are centrist-leftists so the Conservatives can and will win elections with a plurality but not a majority. They are also more and more influenced by the direction the Republican Party is taking. Canada is the home of Rebel News and Gavin McInnes and Faith Goldy and Lauren Southern and Jordan Peterson, after all.
posted by thecjm at 5:56 PM on October 31, 2020 [18 favorites]
So what's different in Canada? Guns. Not having revolution and rebellion against whoever you view as an oppressive government baked into our national myth. Non-partisan government bodies that run elections so we really don't have any issues with gerrymandering because one party never gets total control over drawing ridings on a map. And most white Conservative leaders have figured out they've actually got a lot in common with religious, traditionally conservative PoC and are bringing them into the fold instead of being xenophobic or racist against them.
But it certainly isn't perfect. We've got one federal party on the right and three that are centrist-leftists so the Conservatives can and will win elections with a plurality but not a majority. They are also more and more influenced by the direction the Republican Party is taking. Canada is the home of Rebel News and Gavin McInnes and Faith Goldy and Lauren Southern and Jordan Peterson, after all.
posted by thecjm at 5:56 PM on October 31, 2020 [18 favorites]
I'm in BC and there are definitely regressive racist assholes out there; while our population density is a lot lower in general and a lot more heterogeneous in distribution than the US, but they're still there be it in the suburbs, exurbs, and rural areas.
It tends to be suppressed in urban areas, but it's still there - social pressure, mainly, keeps it bottled up.
While Canada has widespread systemic racism regarding First Nations, our poor and homeless are a lot more diverse than in the US and lack the component with their unique history of the makeup of the peoples populating the land. Out West, we don't have a lot of Black/ African-Americans who are descendants of slaves in the same geographic place where their ancestors were emplaced.
Here, people feel unsafe around thehomeless underhoused. It's not a race thing, it's an addiction thing. Unhoused addicts with severe mental health issues are a real and significant problem in the city.
In Vancouver at least, it has been dealt with disasterously. Everyone is losing. Violent crime caused by this situation, stochastic crimes even, is surprisingly serious.
I think that the point of the article is that Canada is susceptible to the dirty tricks of "American-style politics" and there are flare-ups that should be observed with more caution.
We've recently had a bunch of anti-maskers "protesting" in Vancouver and it's just... dumb. I don't know if the QAnon types were doing it ironically or if they actually believed. Reddit is trash, but r/Vancouver derided these fools. For a while Rebel Media posts were really common but they died back after they started getting slaughtered as "right wing lying trash." r/Vancouver has a big contingent of younger non-white males. There've recently been a bunch of "Bro, do you even know which country you're in" point-and-shame posts with strong upvoting.
The BC Liberals (complicated; they're not liberal - have nothing to do with the federal Liberals) had tried swinging harder Right the election this month. They lost vote share across virtually(?) every region, lost a bunch of seats. A bunch of "scandals" with candidates being sexist, racist, etc. Casually, with intent, etc. also. The NDP won a solid majority (mostly on a not-a-total-failure covid response, and some vote-buying). The Greens got a seat outside of Vancouver Island for the first time.
posted by porpoise at 7:02 PM on October 31, 2020 [10 favorites]
It tends to be suppressed in urban areas, but it's still there - social pressure, mainly, keeps it bottled up.
While Canada has widespread systemic racism regarding First Nations, our poor and homeless are a lot more diverse than in the US and lack the component with their unique history of the makeup of the peoples populating the land. Out West, we don't have a lot of Black/ African-Americans who are descendants of slaves in the same geographic place where their ancestors were emplaced.
Here, people feel unsafe around the
In Vancouver at least, it has been dealt with disasterously. Everyone is losing. Violent crime caused by this situation, stochastic crimes even, is surprisingly serious.
I think that the point of the article is that Canada is susceptible to the dirty tricks of "American-style politics" and there are flare-ups that should be observed with more caution.
We've recently had a bunch of anti-maskers "protesting" in Vancouver and it's just... dumb. I don't know if the QAnon types were doing it ironically or if they actually believed. Reddit is trash, but r/Vancouver derided these fools. For a while Rebel Media posts were really common but they died back after they started getting slaughtered as "right wing lying trash." r/Vancouver has a big contingent of younger non-white males. There've recently been a bunch of "Bro, do you even know which country you're in" point-and-shame posts with strong upvoting.
The BC Liberals (complicated; they're not liberal - have nothing to do with the federal Liberals) had tried swinging harder Right the election this month. They lost vote share across virtually(?) every region, lost a bunch of seats. A bunch of "scandals" with candidates being sexist, racist, etc. Casually, with intent, etc. also. The NDP won a solid majority (mostly on a not-a-total-failure covid response, and some vote-buying). The Greens got a seat outside of Vancouver Island for the first time.
posted by porpoise at 7:02 PM on October 31, 2020 [10 favorites]
I think Canada is considerably more at risk of right wing madness than the CBC is willing to admit. Rural Western Canada especially seems to have many people who would vote for a Canadian Trump and are deep in conspiracy land. Tribalism is alive and well - lots of reports of F Trudeau signs on pickup trucks practically the day after the election. Then there is the whole Ford thing in Ontario.
posted by blue shadows at 7:21 PM on October 31, 2020 [10 favorites]
posted by blue shadows at 7:21 PM on October 31, 2020 [10 favorites]
We are the Spirit of Chaos Yet to Come...
Boogedy boogedy boogedy
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:45 PM on October 31, 2020 [3 favorites]
Boogedy boogedy boogedy
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:45 PM on October 31, 2020 [3 favorites]
Rural Western Canada
... don't have electoral votes. Population density representation disparity isn't quite as horrible as it is in the US.
posted by porpoise at 8:59 PM on October 31, 2020 [1 favorite]
... don't have electoral votes. Population density representation disparity isn't quite as horrible as it is in the US.
posted by porpoise at 8:59 PM on October 31, 2020 [1 favorite]
No, but the point is it's starting.
posted by blue shadows at 10:07 PM on October 31, 2020
posted by blue shadows at 10:07 PM on October 31, 2020
Traditionally, Canadians have mistrusted overt partisanship. We don't demand consensus, but we do expect elected folks to all work together for the overall benefit of the public and it's rare for a political party to get away with being too high-handed for too long - voters are a fickle lot who don't hesitate to deal out harsh punishments at the next election. Elected folks know that they're riding a see-saw and their parties can lose power just as fast as they got it; they're a wee bit afraid of us, as they should be. Sometimes we even vote out perfectly satisfactory governments for no particular reason, just because we feel we might like a change. We're not an easy people to govern and we don't like anyone to have too much power for too long.
This is not altogether a good thing, as it tends to encourage governments to kick uncomfortable problems down the road instead of actually enacting solutions that they think might be unpopular with the electorate. (This is part of the reason it takes goddam decades to settle indigenous land claims and treaties, failures which should be a national shame but are instead something we just don't like to talk about much.)
posted by Mary Ellen Carter at 10:30 PM on October 31, 2020 [8 favorites]
This is not altogether a good thing, as it tends to encourage governments to kick uncomfortable problems down the road instead of actually enacting solutions that they think might be unpopular with the electorate. (This is part of the reason it takes goddam decades to settle indigenous land claims and treaties, failures which should be a national shame but are instead something we just don't like to talk about much.)
posted by Mary Ellen Carter at 10:30 PM on October 31, 2020 [8 favorites]
"Peace, Order, and Good Government"
posted by porpoise at 10:49 PM on October 31, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by porpoise at 10:49 PM on October 31, 2020 [2 favorites]
I thought Doug Ford would turn out like Trump at the beginning of the pandemic, but as misguided as I think he his most of the time he seemed to act like he actually cared about his constituents and tries to actually help people and acted like an adult. Where as Trump seemed to always have taken the pandemic as a personnal annoyance and never gave a damn about anybody else.
It would also seem relations between the liberal federal government and the conservative Ontario provincial government have considerably warmed up which is not something I would have put money on happening.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 11:03 PM on October 31, 2020 [1 favorite]
It would also seem relations between the liberal federal government and the conservative Ontario provincial government have considerably warmed up which is not something I would have put money on happening.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 11:03 PM on October 31, 2020 [1 favorite]
as misguided as I think he his most of the time he seemed to act like he actually cared about his constituents and tries to actually help people and acted like an adult
I have to admit that I also kind of thought this way for a few weeks at the beginning of the pandemic, though this was after he basically told everyone to do whatever they wanted for March Break the virus ain't here yet folks whatever.
The following months should have made clear that Doug Ford and the Ontario PC party are still pushing a terrible agenda, however. The plan to reopen schools in the fall was barely a plan, they did a terrible job of managing test capacity over the summer (to the point of not bothering to fund lab infrastructure renovations because hey, who knew there'd be a second wave coming except the entire goddamned province), and even with the new bills for small business relief being pushed by the government, they took the time to tack on things everyone wanted like *reads notes* taking away ranked ballots for municipal elections.
Smarten the fuck up, indeed.
posted by chrominance at 11:33 PM on October 31, 2020 [6 favorites]
I have to admit that I also kind of thought this way for a few weeks at the beginning of the pandemic, though this was after he basically told everyone to do whatever they wanted for March Break the virus ain't here yet folks whatever.
The following months should have made clear that Doug Ford and the Ontario PC party are still pushing a terrible agenda, however. The plan to reopen schools in the fall was barely a plan, they did a terrible job of managing test capacity over the summer (to the point of not bothering to fund lab infrastructure renovations because hey, who knew there'd be a second wave coming except the entire goddamned province), and even with the new bills for small business relief being pushed by the government, they took the time to tack on things everyone wanted like *reads notes* taking away ranked ballots for municipal elections.
Smarten the fuck up, indeed.
posted by chrominance at 11:33 PM on October 31, 2020 [6 favorites]
Mod note: One deleted. Let's not make personal attacks against other members.
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 3:24 AM on November 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 3:24 AM on November 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
But it certainly isn't perfect. We've got one federal party on the right and three that are centrist-leftists so the Conservatives can and will win elections with a plurality but not a majority.
Rural Western Canada
... don't have electoral votes. Population density representation disparity isn't quite as horrible as it is in the US.
This is also a problem in the UK. I think it's a fish/water thing–Brits and Canadians who know about the Electoral College think it's absurd, and yet find it perfectly normal to run a parliamentary system with single-member FPTP. And while each constituency has the same weight toward forming a majority, Labour is starting to run into the same problem as the Democrats, with their votes inefficiently distributed and concentrated in urban areas.
posted by HumuloneRanger at 6:24 AM on November 1, 2020
Rural Western Canada
... don't have electoral votes. Population density representation disparity isn't quite as horrible as it is in the US.
This is also a problem in the UK. I think it's a fish/water thing–Brits and Canadians who know about the Electoral College think it's absurd, and yet find it perfectly normal to run a parliamentary system with single-member FPTP. And while each constituency has the same weight toward forming a majority, Labour is starting to run into the same problem as the Democrats, with their votes inefficiently distributed and concentrated in urban areas.
posted by HumuloneRanger at 6:24 AM on November 1, 2020
porpoise: A bunch of "scandals" with candidates being sexist, racist, etc.
The fact that these are scandals in Canada instead of being selling points is one thing we've got going for us, at least for now. The sexism and (especially) racism are there (just see the comments section on any story at all about First Nations) but the numbers are such that it's more likely to tip an election against you than for you, so political parties mostly try to keep their dog whistles quiet. My socially conservative Alberta friends were most excited in the last Conservative leadership race by a Black woman, and, given her lead in the raw vote count, she likely would've won the race if not for the Conservative's each-riding-gets-100-points system. Kellie Leitch got a lot of attention with her values test and barbaric cultural practices tip line a few years back, but ultimately it sunk her leadership campaign.
It was true a decade ago that
porpoise: Rural Western Canada... don't have electoral votes. Population density representation disparity isn't quite as horrible as it is in the US.
The disparity in Canada is in favour of the Maritimes, the Territories, Manitoba, and Saskatchewan. In the 2016 election, Alberta votes counted for the least because of population growth in the province. There were 158,749 residents in the riding I grew up in, compared to 27,197 in Labrador.
Our first-past-the-post riding system gives us, in some ways, the equivalent of the Electoral College. How often has a majority government gotten a majority of the vote? Only 4 or 5 times in the 18 or so majority governments we've had since World War One.
posted by clawsoon at 6:24 AM on November 1, 2020 [3 favorites]
The fact that these are scandals in Canada instead of being selling points is one thing we've got going for us, at least for now. The sexism and (especially) racism are there (just see the comments section on any story at all about First Nations) but the numbers are such that it's more likely to tip an election against you than for you, so political parties mostly try to keep their dog whistles quiet. My socially conservative Alberta friends were most excited in the last Conservative leadership race by a Black woman, and, given her lead in the raw vote count, she likely would've won the race if not for the Conservative's each-riding-gets-100-points system. Kellie Leitch got a lot of attention with her values test and barbaric cultural practices tip line a few years back, but ultimately it sunk her leadership campaign.
It was true a decade ago that
Alberta--as the most conservative province in Canada--ranks as slightly more liberal than Massachusetts on the social values scale according to about twenty years of Environics polls.I wonder if that's still true.
porpoise: Rural Western Canada... don't have electoral votes. Population density representation disparity isn't quite as horrible as it is in the US.
The disparity in Canada is in favour of the Maritimes, the Territories, Manitoba, and Saskatchewan. In the 2016 election, Alberta votes counted for the least because of population growth in the province. There were 158,749 residents in the riding I grew up in, compared to 27,197 in Labrador.
Our first-past-the-post riding system gives us, in some ways, the equivalent of the Electoral College. How often has a majority government gotten a majority of the vote? Only 4 or 5 times in the 18 or so majority governments we've had since World War One.
posted by clawsoon at 6:24 AM on November 1, 2020 [3 favorites]
I know in Quebec the number of ridings is fixed, but the leeway is 25% larger or smaller than the provincial average, which ends up meaning, somehow, that the largest riding by population (2016 census) is 93,190 and the smallest is 12,475, for an average of 63,315. And this is just accepted, because the people who win on this system (rural areas, some suburbs) are perfectly happy to fuck over cities.
posted by jeather at 7:09 AM on November 1, 2020
posted by jeather at 7:09 AM on November 1, 2020
Chrominance, oh it would seem we only got the good bits here.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:46 AM on November 1, 2020
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:46 AM on November 1, 2020
Missing from this discussion, and from the linked article, is any sense of the American empire.
From TFA: "Everything was not all right for the United States before 2016 — but it was easier to take a great many things for granted." And thus everything avant Trump disappears.
Having a global hegemony for a generation, and battling for global supremacy for two generations prior: this exerts powerful and deep effects on a society.
posted by doctornemo at 7:55 AM on November 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
From TFA: "Everything was not all right for the United States before 2016 — but it was easier to take a great many things for granted." And thus everything avant Trump disappears.
Having a global hegemony for a generation, and battling for global supremacy for two generations prior: this exerts powerful and deep effects on a society.
posted by doctornemo at 7:55 AM on November 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm wondering if we can use this thread as a "Canada's Corner" for the US presidential election. Feelings are certainly running high in the Robots household. I'm not looking forward to hearing Junior Robots say, again, "You said this couldn't happen!"
posted by No Robots at 10:49 AM on November 1, 2020
posted by No Robots at 10:49 AM on November 1, 2020
Le Devoir adds some perspectives as well, from Québécois currently living in Atlanta.
posted by gimonca at 1:29 PM on November 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by gimonca at 1:29 PM on November 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
I wonder if "American-style politics" is something that some Canadian candidate will discover works if toned down some. And if it is effective, whether it our explosive use of it will be an inevitable end game.
Maybe, Granholm is an interesting model though Canadian, an American politican.
posted by clavdivs at 3:05 PM on November 1, 2020
Maybe, Granholm is an interesting model though Canadian, an American politican.
posted by clavdivs at 3:05 PM on November 1, 2020
Kellie Leitch got a lot of attention with her values test and barbaric cultural practices tip line a few years back, but ultimately it sunk her leadership campaign.
Huh. She apparently decamped for Mississippi just over a year ago.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:35 PM on November 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
Huh. She apparently decamped for Mississippi just over a year ago.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:35 PM on November 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
Huh. She apparently decamped for Mississippi just over a year ago.
Huh indeed. I guess her Canadian values included surrender and running away, which is more of a Confederate value anyway.
The fascinating thing is that after a brief freewheeling mid-March period of "go crazy!", long-time "unwavering" devoted Trump fan/Ontario (Conservative) premier Doug Ford has buckled down and cooperated quite comprehensively with the (Liberal) federal government despite past differences. This a marked change from a year ago.
It's possible that it is resentment on DoFo's part on being told by the federal Conservative party to sit down and shut up for five months last year so as not to scupper the Tories' chances federally. Also possible: tariffs made DoFo take down the poster of Trump from his dorm room wall.
This has... not gone over well in the so-called Ford Nation of devoted Ford supporters. Seemingly every comments section on news articles about this is full of vitriol from Ford Nationalists. I went to look at the actual Ford Nation website: they have removed their comment section and not a single article appears since June 6, 2018, the day before the election that brought Ford to power. I'm sure everthing is fine, though.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:17 PM on November 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
Huh indeed. I guess her Canadian values included surrender and running away, which is more of a Confederate value anyway.
The fascinating thing is that after a brief freewheeling mid-March period of "go crazy!", long-time "unwavering" devoted Trump fan/Ontario (Conservative) premier Doug Ford has buckled down and cooperated quite comprehensively with the (Liberal) federal government despite past differences. This a marked change from a year ago.
It's possible that it is resentment on DoFo's part on being told by the federal Conservative party to sit down and shut up for five months last year so as not to scupper the Tories' chances federally. Also possible: tariffs made DoFo take down the poster of Trump from his dorm room wall.
This has... not gone over well in the so-called Ford Nation of devoted Ford supporters. Seemingly every comments section on news articles about this is full of vitriol from Ford Nationalists. I went to look at the actual Ford Nation website: they have removed their comment section and not a single article appears since June 6, 2018, the day before the election that brought Ford to power. I'm sure everthing is fine, though.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:17 PM on November 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
I went to look at the actual Ford Nation website: they have removed their comment section and not a single article appears since June 6, 2018, the day before the election that brought Ford to power. I'm sure everthing is fine, though.
Seems to be going as expected...
Doug Ford wants to give university status to a school run by a homophobic preacher. But that’s only half the story:
In his most bizarre political stunt as premier, Doug Ford is trying to rewrite our laws to help the controversial Canada Christian College leapfrog into coveted university status — even before receiving regulatory approval.
But that’s only half the story. The untold story gets worse — because it turns out that the right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing in Ontario.
Or perhaps doesn’t want to know.
Headed by the notoriously homophobic and Islamophobic Charles McVety, Canada Christian College is seeking the right to confer BA and BSc degrees — despite the fact that regulatory authorities have consistently challenged its academic credentials and rejected its graduates.
[...]
Who exactly is Charles McVety and how did he get Ford to swallow his combustible mix of political and religious divisiveness? While McVety is notorious in political circles — popping up every few years to lead crusades against sex education, stoke prejudice against gays or LGBTQ marriage, and whip up hostility to Islam — he is a fringe figure who now has Ford’s ear.
McVety has mused in public that “according to Jesus Christ, we have to love Muslims, but we don’t have to love Islam;” he warns that “Islam is not just a religion, it’s a … mandate for a hostile takeover;” he describes same-sex marriage as “a dagger in the heart of man;” he decries sex education as a “militant homosexual agenda;” and he preaches that “homosexuals prey on children.”
Pray tell, how did McVety seduce Ford into giving him what he wanted? The stroking was mutual.
In early 2018, McVety threw his support behind Ford’s come-from-behind bid for the party leadership, in exchange for a pledge to review Ontario’s updated sex-ed curriculum. Their love affair was consummated over Christmas, nearly two years ago, when Ford and his family gave their blessings to a fawning celebration organized by Canada Christian College.
“We want to thank premier Ford not only for coming tonight but also standing up for Christians,” McVety told the audience of thousands.
Such a move would, of course, offer McVety and his Canada Christian College (for Americans...think of a cheaper, more tawdry version of Regent University, if you can) direct provincial funding via the Ministry of Colleges and Universities.
Ford's still got a base to service.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:53 PM on November 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
Seems to be going as expected...
Doug Ford wants to give university status to a school run by a homophobic preacher. But that’s only half the story:
In his most bizarre political stunt as premier, Doug Ford is trying to rewrite our laws to help the controversial Canada Christian College leapfrog into coveted university status — even before receiving regulatory approval.
But that’s only half the story. The untold story gets worse — because it turns out that the right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing in Ontario.
Or perhaps doesn’t want to know.
Headed by the notoriously homophobic and Islamophobic Charles McVety, Canada Christian College is seeking the right to confer BA and BSc degrees — despite the fact that regulatory authorities have consistently challenged its academic credentials and rejected its graduates.
[...]
Who exactly is Charles McVety and how did he get Ford to swallow his combustible mix of political and religious divisiveness? While McVety is notorious in political circles — popping up every few years to lead crusades against sex education, stoke prejudice against gays or LGBTQ marriage, and whip up hostility to Islam — he is a fringe figure who now has Ford’s ear.
McVety has mused in public that “according to Jesus Christ, we have to love Muslims, but we don’t have to love Islam;” he warns that “Islam is not just a religion, it’s a … mandate for a hostile takeover;” he describes same-sex marriage as “a dagger in the heart of man;” he decries sex education as a “militant homosexual agenda;” and he preaches that “homosexuals prey on children.”
Pray tell, how did McVety seduce Ford into giving him what he wanted? The stroking was mutual.
In early 2018, McVety threw his support behind Ford’s come-from-behind bid for the party leadership, in exchange for a pledge to review Ontario’s updated sex-ed curriculum. Their love affair was consummated over Christmas, nearly two years ago, when Ford and his family gave their blessings to a fawning celebration organized by Canada Christian College.
“We want to thank premier Ford not only for coming tonight but also standing up for Christians,” McVety told the audience of thousands.
Such a move would, of course, offer McVety and his Canada Christian College (for Americans...think of a cheaper, more tawdry version of Regent University, if you can) direct provincial funding via the Ministry of Colleges and Universities.
Ford's still got a base to service.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:53 PM on November 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
All you really need to Trumpify Canada is someone who appeals to both the Alberta/Saskatchewan elderly racists as well as the Ford Nation meatheads in Ontario. If it follows the Trump pattern the enabler will be praising people for being racist against First Nations people and immigrants.
posted by benzenedream at 6:10 PM on November 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by benzenedream at 6:10 PM on November 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
I wonder if "American-style politics" is something that some Canadian candidate will discover works if toned down some.
Stephen Harper certainly gave it a pretty successful try.
If "American-style politics" was a Canadian insult, what was meant by it? Racism? Jingoism? Being beholden to corporate interests? There's a lot wrong with us.
It's a pretty big subject that undoubtably means different things to different people but a few thoughts (Some of these are going to be what Canadians think America is like which may diverge from reality):
Rigidly structured, never ending elections. American politicians are always campaigning. Here, sure the incumbents are trying to get their name out attached to good things but they areh't out there actively campaigning. When PM Stephen Harper (Conservative in name, middle right in action) started slapping his name on Government Projects people were derisive of the action including members of his own party. That sort of shit doesn't really fly here. And elections, even the scheduled ones, are quick. A snap election is over in 4-6 weeks, a scheduled one maybe drags out to a couple months.
Partisan electoral systems. Federal and provincial election systems are legally and culturally non-partisan. I worked the provincial election last week and we weren't even allowed to wear a shirt that could be construed as a party colour. The tape we put on the floor for social distancing had to be plain beige or otherwise not one of the party colours. It is crazy that the head electoral person would also hold an elected position. It is mind-xploding that that person would promise to deliver the state for a particular party. That a particular, active, public party member would be in charge of counting votes? Ya, not going to happen.
Also minority governments (where the ruling party doesn't have the majority of seats) are common and arguably work better than strong majorities. Such a situation doesn't seem to be legally or more importantly practical in the US.
Some other things:
Provincial parties are, with the exception of the NDP, actually independent of the Federal parties. The BC Liberals for example are the Conservative party in everything but name. And even the Provincial NDP party is granted a lot of autonomy.
We've recently had a bunch of anti-maskers "protesting" in Vancouver and it's just... dumb.
One thing that isn't new but has been on the rise with social media is the bizarre transplant of American memes/culture into Canada. Like Canadians in Canada wearing MAGA gear. Da Fuq? Racist dog whistling? Or bizarre unexamined posturing. Canada has always been immersed in American culture but Trump has really shown that to have seeped in. And you get the weird situation of Canadians advocating for stuff that doesn't even make sense in Canada. Like building a border wall. Between us and the USA. WTF? Leaving aside the inaccessible mountains in the West how the heck are you going to build a wall down the St. Laurence Seaway? It's heavily built up on both sides. Going to build a wall down the centre of the Great Lakes on the boarder or Osoyoos Lake or just fence in the entire lake shores? How are you going to handle the Salish Sea? Or goofy reporposed stuff like facebook book memes calling to "Lock Him Up" in reference to the Prime Minister. That didn't even make sense in post Trump Presidency America let alone Canada.
posted by Mitheral at 9:11 PM on November 1, 2020 [4 favorites]
Stephen Harper certainly gave it a pretty successful try.
If "American-style politics" was a Canadian insult, what was meant by it? Racism? Jingoism? Being beholden to corporate interests? There's a lot wrong with us.
It's a pretty big subject that undoubtably means different things to different people but a few thoughts (Some of these are going to be what Canadians think America is like which may diverge from reality):
Rigidly structured, never ending elections. American politicians are always campaigning. Here, sure the incumbents are trying to get their name out attached to good things but they areh't out there actively campaigning. When PM Stephen Harper (Conservative in name, middle right in action) started slapping his name on Government Projects people were derisive of the action including members of his own party. That sort of shit doesn't really fly here. And elections, even the scheduled ones, are quick. A snap election is over in 4-6 weeks, a scheduled one maybe drags out to a couple months.
Partisan electoral systems. Federal and provincial election systems are legally and culturally non-partisan. I worked the provincial election last week and we weren't even allowed to wear a shirt that could be construed as a party colour. The tape we put on the floor for social distancing had to be plain beige or otherwise not one of the party colours. It is crazy that the head electoral person would also hold an elected position. It is mind-xploding that that person would promise to deliver the state for a particular party. That a particular, active, public party member would be in charge of counting votes? Ya, not going to happen.
Also minority governments (where the ruling party doesn't have the majority of seats) are common and arguably work better than strong majorities. Such a situation doesn't seem to be legally or more importantly practical in the US.
Some other things:
Provincial parties are, with the exception of the NDP, actually independent of the Federal parties. The BC Liberals for example are the Conservative party in everything but name. And even the Provincial NDP party is granted a lot of autonomy.
We've recently had a bunch of anti-maskers "protesting" in Vancouver and it's just... dumb.
One thing that isn't new but has been on the rise with social media is the bizarre transplant of American memes/culture into Canada. Like Canadians in Canada wearing MAGA gear. Da Fuq? Racist dog whistling? Or bizarre unexamined posturing. Canada has always been immersed in American culture but Trump has really shown that to have seeped in. And you get the weird situation of Canadians advocating for stuff that doesn't even make sense in Canada. Like building a border wall. Between us and the USA. WTF? Leaving aside the inaccessible mountains in the West how the heck are you going to build a wall down the St. Laurence Seaway? It's heavily built up on both sides. Going to build a wall down the centre of the Great Lakes on the boarder or Osoyoos Lake or just fence in the entire lake shores? How are you going to handle the Salish Sea? Or goofy reporposed stuff like facebook book memes calling to "Lock Him Up" in reference to the Prime Minister. That didn't even make sense in post Trump Presidency America let alone Canada.
posted by Mitheral at 9:11 PM on November 1, 2020 [4 favorites]
I worked the provincial election last week and we weren't even allowed to wear a shirt that could be construed as a party colour. The tape we put on the floor for social distancing had to be plain beige or otherwise not one of the party colours.
I worked the federal election a year ago and we were all required to avoid any party colour (red, blue, green, orange) on the big day. As I mentioned last year on the blue, election officials have to avoid all of these colours from the day the writ is dropped until Election Day. One expressed her gratitude that no party had yet opted for black/white/grey, otherwise they’d all be obliged to dress as purple and yellow harlequins for six weeks.
(Our floor stickers were black and white.)
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:38 PM on November 1, 2020
I worked the federal election a year ago and we were all required to avoid any party colour (red, blue, green, orange) on the big day. As I mentioned last year on the blue, election officials have to avoid all of these colours from the day the writ is dropped until Election Day. One expressed her gratitude that no party had yet opted for black/white/grey, otherwise they’d all be obliged to dress as purple and yellow harlequins for six weeks.
(Our floor stickers were black and white.)
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:38 PM on November 1, 2020
Also:
Provincial parties are, with the exception of the NDP, actually independent of the Federal parties. The BC Liberals for example are the Conservative party in everything but name.
This is a crucial point which a lot of Canadians themselves seem to be in the dark on. Often I see a popular premier touted by low-information voters as “the next prime minister!!1!” and while I suppose it is possible, I have to wonder if they are aware of the last time a provincial premier went on to become PM. Hint: it wasn’t in this century. Second hint: it wasn’t in the last century either.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:49 PM on November 1, 2020 [5 favorites]
Provincial parties are, with the exception of the NDP, actually independent of the Federal parties. The BC Liberals for example are the Conservative party in everything but name.
This is a crucial point which a lot of Canadians themselves seem to be in the dark on. Often I see a popular premier touted by low-information voters as “the next prime minister!!1!” and while I suppose it is possible, I have to wonder if they are aware of the last time a provincial premier went on to become PM. Hint: it wasn’t in this century. Second hint: it wasn’t in the last century either.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:49 PM on November 1, 2020 [5 favorites]
I feel like the question is a great one but ultimately the author's analysis rests on vapid Liberalism. To abuse Godel's 2nd Incompleteness Theorem, an ideology cannot confront its own contradictions. And the contradiction here is that corporate, global neoliberalism and climate catastrophe and the Doomsday Clock problem is what threatens to tip all Western countries upside down in this century. The political theories of Parliament Hill wonks, by fetishizing democracy and wing politics, do not capture these issues and elucidate the underlying structural and socioeconomic causes for what's coming if we don't organize and fight for change.
posted by polymodus at 9:59 PM on November 1, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by polymodus at 9:59 PM on November 1, 2020 [4 favorites]
I have my own thoughts (mostly dark ones) about US politics. When I hear "American-style politics" in a Canadian context it means roughly the same thing as "MBA style management". Which is to say:
Wearing MAGA anything here in Ontario should be roughly equivalent to wearing "Make Russia Great Again" somewhere in the Ukraine. Or maybe Finland. At best, it's advocating for bad neighbour to become more aggressive. Canadian patriotism is a fickle thing, but you'd think our hard liners would at least know their own nationality. They're working from the playbook. See Erin O'Toole and "Take Back Canada".
Somewhat similarly, "buy domestic" bumper stickers. As a rule, they'll be on GM or Ford vehicles. However, Canada has no purely domestic manufacturer, and Japanese brands account for about half of our production capacity by volume. Any random Honda Civic has a better chance of actually being made in Canada than a 'domestic' F150.
The US media footprint is massive, and we've long had regulation in place to protect our own identity and discourse. It's not enough. We get so much bleed over. And it's not just the assumptions that are steeped into every news broadcast or TV show. Modern US marketing and lobbying efforts throw massive amounts of money and bullshit around. The little bit that gets flung over the border is enough to entirely destabilize us, and lands utterly without context.
posted by TheHuntForBlueMonday at 8:14 AM on November 3, 2020 [3 favorites]
- Working from a playbook...
- ... that was written for a different (and much larger) entity under different circumstances ...
- ... without accounting for context.
Wearing MAGA anything here in Ontario should be roughly equivalent to wearing "Make Russia Great Again" somewhere in the Ukraine. Or maybe Finland. At best, it's advocating for bad neighbour to become more aggressive. Canadian patriotism is a fickle thing, but you'd think our hard liners would at least know their own nationality. They're working from the playbook. See Erin O'Toole and "Take Back Canada".
Somewhat similarly, "buy domestic" bumper stickers. As a rule, they'll be on GM or Ford vehicles. However, Canada has no purely domestic manufacturer, and Japanese brands account for about half of our production capacity by volume. Any random Honda Civic has a better chance of actually being made in Canada than a 'domestic' F150.
The US media footprint is massive, and we've long had regulation in place to protect our own identity and discourse. It's not enough. We get so much bleed over. And it's not just the assumptions that are steeped into every news broadcast or TV show. Modern US marketing and lobbying efforts throw massive amounts of money and bullshit around. The little bit that gets flung over the border is enough to entirely destabilize us, and lands utterly without context.
posted by TheHuntForBlueMonday at 8:14 AM on November 3, 2020 [3 favorites]
The US media footprint is massive, and we've long had regulation in place to protect our own identity and discourse. It's not enough. We get so much bleed over. And it's not just the assumptions that are steeped into every news broadcast or TV show. Modern US marketing and lobbying efforts throw massive amounts of money and bullshit around. The little bit that gets flung over the border is enough to entirely destabilize us, and lands utterly without context.
Did you mean "is not enough to entirely destabilize us"?
If so I agree that the bleed over is actually somewhat inoculating against deceptive right wing discourse. Canadians learn very early on that politicians lie because we almost all get to see (or at least used to get to see back when broadcast TV airwaves crossed to the border and were received in most Canadian households) U.S. political advertisements that often explicitly attacked Canadian ideals on things like healthcare. Growing up I saw commercials that stated I was denied timely life-saving health care. I even saw some while in the hospital!
posted by srboisvert at 9:09 AM on November 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
Did you mean "is not enough to entirely destabilize us"?
If so I agree that the bleed over is actually somewhat inoculating against deceptive right wing discourse. Canadians learn very early on that politicians lie because we almost all get to see (or at least used to get to see back when broadcast TV airwaves crossed to the border and were received in most Canadian households) U.S. political advertisements that often explicitly attacked Canadian ideals on things like healthcare. Growing up I saw commercials that stated I was denied timely life-saving health care. I even saw some while in the hospital!
posted by srboisvert at 9:09 AM on November 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
I really did mean that American special interest groups could accidentally destabilize Canada without even noticing. The spillover we used to get through broadcast TV is nothing like the torrent of partisan, polarizing and personally targeted misinformation that we receive through new media, as well as networks and outlets specifically built to shop it around. And it's all written for a US market, with US sensibilities in mind.
Look at how the national conservative party has continued to shift from 'fiscal responsibility' to 'pants-on-head crazy' with the proportionately very small amount of US special-interest money that makes it into Rebel Media. The last few federal PC leaders have been pretty much chosen and funded by Rebel Media. It's cost us a center-right PC party, and a dead-center liberal party, but gifted us a crazypants PC party, and center-right liberal party (as they still think they're standing dead-center).
Personally, I don't think it's a Koch brothers conspiracy to take over Canada so much as a side affect of US radical conservative groups pursuing power. We're not important enough to be a target. And we won't leave much of a splotch mark on the bumper, so it's not worth hitting the brakes, either.
posted by TheHuntForBlueMonday at 11:04 AM on November 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
Look at how the national conservative party has continued to shift from 'fiscal responsibility' to 'pants-on-head crazy' with the proportionately very small amount of US special-interest money that makes it into Rebel Media. The last few federal PC leaders have been pretty much chosen and funded by Rebel Media. It's cost us a center-right PC party, and a dead-center liberal party, but gifted us a crazypants PC party, and center-right liberal party (as they still think they're standing dead-center).
Personally, I don't think it's a Koch brothers conspiracy to take over Canada so much as a side affect of US radical conservative groups pursuing power. We're not important enough to be a target. And we won't leave much of a splotch mark on the bumper, so it's not worth hitting the brakes, either.
posted by TheHuntForBlueMonday at 11:04 AM on November 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
(I wish we were on Prime Minister Layton's third term)
posted by TheHuntForBlueMonday at 11:10 AM on November 3, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by TheHuntForBlueMonday at 11:10 AM on November 3, 2020 [5 favorites]
(I wish we were on Prime Minister Layton's third term)
posted by TheHuntForBlueMonday at 11:10 AM on November 3 [2 favorites −] [!]
One of the open-resource literacy books I use with my adult learners has a chapter called "Standing Up For Your Human Rights" (the whole book is an absolute delight) and one of the very last images in it is a quotation in sidewalk chalk from Jack Layton's last letter:
Sometimes when I get really down, I try to think about what Jack Layton would tell us. I don't think he was a saint; he was human being with all that entails, but he was a good person who cared and tried to make the world a better place. I guess that's what I want in my politicians. It doesn't seem to be too much to ask.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 6:02 PM on November 3, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by TheHuntForBlueMonday at 11:10 AM on November 3 [2 favorites −] [!]
One of the open-resource literacy books I use with my adult learners has a chapter called "Standing Up For Your Human Rights" (the whole book is an absolute delight) and one of the very last images in it is a quotation in sidewalk chalk from Jack Layton's last letter:
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.I started to get very teary-eyed, reading those words to my students. As I explained who Jack Layton was, I was shocked to realize it had been nearly ten years since he died. So much has happened since then, both in my personal life and in global terms, and it's been a long, hard decade.
Sometimes when I get really down, I try to think about what Jack Layton would tell us. I don't think he was a saint; he was human being with all that entails, but he was a good person who cared and tried to make the world a better place. I guess that's what I want in my politicians. It doesn't seem to be too much to ask.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 6:02 PM on November 3, 2020 [5 favorites]
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posted by Countess Elena at 11:57 AM on October 31, 2020 [6 favorites]