Editor's Note: Why a Recipe Is More Than a Recipe
January 25, 2021 11:36 AM Subscribe
The work of food media is inherently political because you're making culture easily consumed, and you're trying to present it in a way that's culturally conscious and thoughtful. A lot of times it works and sometimes it doesn't, and there's a lot of media that doesn't hit that mark. I would love for readers, your readers and food media at large, to think about is how recipes and food are inherently political. The work of sharing food is sharing culture.
"In the January issue of Food & Wine, we published a story and recipe for Mole Verde from Norma Listman and Saqib Keval, the chefs and owners of Masala y Maíz in Mexico City. And we made a mistake. When we photographed the recipe in our studio, our team approved the use of hot sauce and limes as garnishes for visual contrast—additions that are neither traditional nor suggested by the chefs."
The recipe, which Listman had already culturally translated for American cooks, is of historic and cultural significance to Central Mexico and is derived from her family's traditions. We've corrected the recipe and image online to reflect the accurate presentation that they intended. We apologize for including the garnishes. We also thank Listman and Keval for bringing it to our attention, and even more for taking the time and effort to discuss why an addition like this was incorrect.
Mole Verde recipe in question.
The recipe, which Listman had already culturally translated for American cooks, is of historic and cultural significance to Central Mexico and is derived from her family's traditions. We've corrected the recipe and image online to reflect the accurate presentation that they intended. We apologize for including the garnishes. We also thank Listman and Keval for bringing it to our attention, and even more for taking the time and effort to discuss why an addition like this was incorrect.
Mole Verde recipe in question.
The article mentions swapping out a photo, so I presume they have done a reshoot.
posted by ocherdraco at 11:52 AM on January 25, 2021
posted by ocherdraco at 11:52 AM on January 25, 2021
I want to say, "this again?" I feel like this is a recurring problem every few to several years.
When we photographed the recipe in our studio, our team approved the use of hot sauce and limes as garnishes for visual contrast—additions that are neither traditional nor suggested by the chefs
It seems...wasteful? that they were working with actual dang experts on the topic and apparently just said "thanks, smell ya later" before "our team" took over, taking some pictures and throwing everything to the printer. "Visual contrast," a likely story. /grouch
posted by rhizome at 11:53 AM on January 25, 2021
When we photographed the recipe in our studio, our team approved the use of hot sauce and limes as garnishes for visual contrast—additions that are neither traditional nor suggested by the chefs
It seems...wasteful? that they were working with actual dang experts on the topic and apparently just said "thanks, smell ya later" before "our team" took over, taking some pictures and throwing everything to the printer. "Visual contrast," a likely story. /grouch
posted by rhizome at 11:53 AM on January 25, 2021
I was looking for a recipe for a traditional Chilean dish and found one written in English by somebody with a Latin American sounding name.
She suggested sides dishes of Mexican salsa and/or nachos.
Nope.
posted by signal at 12:07 PM on January 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
She suggested sides dishes of Mexican salsa and/or nachos.
Nope.
posted by signal at 12:07 PM on January 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
(Definitely not a reshoot, the cilantro is placed identically. I think it was taken out in post, but it's possible they had a shot from before they added the hot sauce.)
I saw this on Twitter and hoped it would end up here. It sucks that they fell into such a lazy trap, and I'm glad the authors called them out. Seems like they reacted well.
Food photography is a different skillset than recipe writing or cooking. There are a lot of moving parts in this and deadlines and (especially with Covid) lots of people working in parallel without direct contact. Today's lesson: trust your sources, don't try to "sex it up."
posted by rikschell at 12:30 PM on January 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
I saw this on Twitter and hoped it would end up here. It sucks that they fell into such a lazy trap, and I'm glad the authors called them out. Seems like they reacted well.
Food photography is a different skillset than recipe writing or cooking. There are a lot of moving parts in this and deadlines and (especially with Covid) lots of people working in parallel without direct contact. Today's lesson: trust your sources, don't try to "sex it up."
posted by rikschell at 12:30 PM on January 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
Today's lesson: trust your sources, don't try to "sex it up."
You can worry about the closeup of the single forkful later.
posted by rhizome at 12:36 PM on January 25, 2021
You can worry about the closeup of the single forkful later.
posted by rhizome at 12:36 PM on January 25, 2021
It's not a reshoot, but the hot sauce isn't photoshopped out. Look at the cilantro leaf at 2 o'clock. It's flattened down in the hot sauce picture. They shot it without to sauce, and then with. The tortilla is also different.
posted by jonathanhughes at 12:48 PM on January 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by jonathanhughes at 12:48 PM on January 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
We have this idea that mole always includes chocolate or is a slightly sweet sauce, and we lose the context and the richness and the depth and history of these preparations, especially with a dish like a pipián or a mole verde. In Mexico there are so many versions of it, and each one is so regional, has a long pre-Columbian history, and there is an art to making it.
Thanks for posting this. Not only did I appreciate the conversation, I have learned that there is more than one mole out there -- I thought I didn't like mole, but it's just that I don't like the chocolatey ones I've had here in the U.S.
posted by JanetLand at 1:46 PM on January 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
Thanks for posting this. Not only did I appreciate the conversation, I have learned that there is more than one mole out there -- I thought I didn't like mole, but it's just that I don't like the chocolatey ones I've had here in the U.S.
posted by JanetLand at 1:46 PM on January 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
While it’s unfortunate that the original “mistake” happened, the response article is really lovely. I don’t know how the original recipe was presented- was it just the recipe or did it have the background information included? If it was just the recipe, then this was an amazing addition of the cultural and culinary background of the dish, explained in the recipe creators’ own words. But the strongest part is allowing them to describe their impression of how the ingrained principles of white supremacy allow things like this to happen. In lieu of the editors writing a self congratulatory “apology” it seems like the editors just let them speak about why this was harmful.
This is very similar to my mole verde recipe, which I realize I haven’t made since at least before the pandemic because the last time we had it we had people over for dinner. It’s not the right season for tomatillos though- but I’ve totally used canned before and it was fine.
posted by Missense Mutation at 2:03 PM on January 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
This is very similar to my mole verde recipe, which I realize I haven’t made since at least before the pandemic because the last time we had it we had people over for dinner. It’s not the right season for tomatillos though- but I’ve totally used canned before and it was fine.
posted by Missense Mutation at 2:03 PM on January 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
Really thoughtful, impressive editorial response. I really appreciate how they owned the mistake, using words like “we” or “our team” rather than naming or blaming the photographer.
posted by mr_roboto at 4:39 PM on January 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by mr_roboto at 4:39 PM on January 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
Related: Everything you know about mole sauce is a lie.
posted by Hactar at 8:09 PM on January 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Hactar at 8:09 PM on January 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
I love this!
I have learned that there is more than one mole out there
Not to pick on you specifically JL because this is super common, but Americans who think mole poblano is the only kind of Mexican sauce often grind my gears. The word mole means sauce. Does it seem likely that a major, diverse food culture would only have one kind of sauce? Have you ever eaten guacamole? Then you already have had more than one kind of mole.
Once I was traveling in Russia and was with a family that very, very kindly made me welcome with an American dish: pasta with American sauce, which turned out to be ketchup. When I tried to explain (in my terrible Russian) that in the US we have pasta with a different kind of tomato sauce, my hosts said, isn't that the same thing? Imagine that conversation, with 100x added white supremacy, and you've basically got most discussions of Mexican food in the US.
posted by medusa at 8:13 PM on January 25, 2021 [12 favorites]
I have learned that there is more than one mole out there
Not to pick on you specifically JL because this is super common, but Americans who think mole poblano is the only kind of Mexican sauce often grind my gears. The word mole means sauce. Does it seem likely that a major, diverse food culture would only have one kind of sauce? Have you ever eaten guacamole? Then you already have had more than one kind of mole.
Once I was traveling in Russia and was with a family that very, very kindly made me welcome with an American dish: pasta with American sauce, which turned out to be ketchup. When I tried to explain (in my terrible Russian) that in the US we have pasta with a different kind of tomato sauce, my hosts said, isn't that the same thing? Imagine that conversation, with 100x added white supremacy, and you've basically got most discussions of Mexican food in the US.
posted by medusa at 8:13 PM on January 25, 2021 [12 favorites]
I want to say, "this again?" I feel like this is a recurring problem every few to several years.
Right there with you. Also on the "food media needs to do better" front I was yesterday years old when I saw that Clare Saffitz had a bagel package at the NYT (in the content sense) and today years old when I followed up on that and learned that she made her (second) departure from Bon Appetit (previously) official way back in October.
posted by fedward at 8:19 PM on January 25, 2021
Right there with you. Also on the "food media needs to do better" front I was yesterday years old when I saw that Clare Saffitz had a bagel package at the NYT (in the content sense) and today years old when I followed up on that and learned that she made her (second) departure from Bon Appetit (previously) official way back in October.
posted by fedward at 8:19 PM on January 25, 2021
Bonus pet peeve: calling it "mole sauce." Would you say "pollo chicken?" "Carne meat?" "Maiz corn?" "Arroz rice?" I think there are in fact people who say "queso cheese." Mmmm, I think I'll have a nice tasty batch of white supremacy.
posted by medusa at 8:19 PM on January 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by medusa at 8:19 PM on January 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
(medusa, this desi feels your pain. Would you like to commiserate about it over a cup of chai tea?)
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 9:36 PM on January 25, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 9:36 PM on January 25, 2021 [11 favorites]
Not to pick on you specifically JL because this is super common, but Americans who think mole poblano is the only kind of Mexican sauce often grind my gears. The word mole means sauce. Does it seem likely that a major, diverse food culture would only have one kind of sauce? Have you ever eaten guacamole? Then you already have had more than one kind of mole.
This is all way too axe grindy. And calling out white supremacy on people saying "mole sauce" is just kind of shitty. Look, I'm Mexican American, I've only ever had one kind of "mole" in my life. If you go to just about any authentic Mexican restaurant, run and staffed by actual Mexicans/Mexican-Americans, here in L.A., and order mole, you will get more or less the same dish. The same dish I grew up with and call mole, just as every person in my very large extended family does. The variations you'll find are fairly minor, but the dish will always be recognizable as the same. If I heard someone say "pollo chicken" "Carne meat" "Maiz corn" or "Arroz rice, I doubt I'd get anywhere near taking offense, and most likely never consider doing a "well, actually..." over it. I have heard people say "queso cheese", which had me puzzled for a moment the first time I heard it, but really, no harm no foul. There are enough things to start hating on people for, without having to pull a more well traveled, more ethnically aware high horse on those who simply are not familiar with the same things I'm familiar with.
posted by 2N2222 at 10:02 PM on January 25, 2021 [15 favorites]
This is all way too axe grindy. And calling out white supremacy on people saying "mole sauce" is just kind of shitty. Look, I'm Mexican American, I've only ever had one kind of "mole" in my life. If you go to just about any authentic Mexican restaurant, run and staffed by actual Mexicans/Mexican-Americans, here in L.A., and order mole, you will get more or less the same dish. The same dish I grew up with and call mole, just as every person in my very large extended family does. The variations you'll find are fairly minor, but the dish will always be recognizable as the same. If I heard someone say "pollo chicken" "Carne meat" "Maiz corn" or "Arroz rice, I doubt I'd get anywhere near taking offense, and most likely never consider doing a "well, actually..." over it. I have heard people say "queso cheese", which had me puzzled for a moment the first time I heard it, but really, no harm no foul. There are enough things to start hating on people for, without having to pull a more well traveled, more ethnically aware high horse on those who simply are not familiar with the same things I'm familiar with.
posted by 2N2222 at 10:02 PM on January 25, 2021 [15 favorites]
2N2222's comment made me think of this exchange at work, after a new person was offered a cup of tea:
"Do you have chamomile?"
"No, love, we just have tea tea."
posted by Vortisaur at 12:29 AM on January 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
"Do you have chamomile?"
"No, love, we just have tea tea."
posted by Vortisaur at 12:29 AM on January 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm Filipino/Mexican American. I've had restaurant mole, and I've had moles of at least three different Mexican American families including that of own immigrant abuela. Each had their difference, but I could taste them as related. Then my Pa brought up some moles from some relatives in Michoacán once and I realized I lived in mole ignorance. I'm not eloquent: that stuff was a class apart even divorced from their geographical context in dishes prepared by my mother.
I think a lot of food perception of different countries are from a particular wave of migration. Food evolves over time and in families and according to available ingredients. A huge diversity in food cultures exists in Mexico that just doesn't make it up here to the US. Many believe Mexican food is just cheese on beans, salsa on chips, and meat in tortillas.These chefs as rightfully trying to push back against such clouded understanding.
posted by Mister Cheese at 12:57 AM on January 26, 2021 [8 favorites]
I think a lot of food perception of different countries are from a particular wave of migration. Food evolves over time and in families and according to available ingredients. A huge diversity in food cultures exists in Mexico that just doesn't make it up here to the US. Many believe Mexican food is just cheese on beans, salsa on chips, and meat in tortillas.These chefs as rightfully trying to push back against such clouded understanding.
posted by Mister Cheese at 12:57 AM on January 26, 2021 [8 favorites]
The article says that "our team approved the use of hot sauce and limes as garnishes for visual contrast". Is it only me who find the drops of red liquid super... icky? The result didn't even look anywhere close to appealing. It looked like the result of accidental or thoughtless spillage of some unknown substance and spoke of vandalism all by itself even without being called out by the original creators of the actual dish.
posted by runcifex at 3:06 AM on January 26, 2021
posted by runcifex at 3:06 AM on January 26, 2021
The couple who run this restaurant are really incredible - they have thought and written a lot about their approach to food, and their conscious choice to reject the term fusion in favor of "mestiziaje" or mixed-ness. They arent just borrowing from traditions and combining things, they are embodying a modern mixing of their traditions. Eating there in 2019 was legitimately one of my top 5 all time restaurant experiences - the conceptualization, food, and hospitality were almost overwhelming, and i dont think theres anything remotely condescending or academic about their particularness here - its about asthetic choices that are totally disconnected from the people who wrote the recipes and their vision.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 4:03 AM on January 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 4:03 AM on January 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
Seconding Exceptional_Hubris' comment: I, too, had a wonderful meal at Masala y Maíz in 2019, thanks to the recommendation of a good friend who is close with Saqib from his Bay Area days. Saqib himself picked out my extremely delicious meal and we chatted for a few minutes despite the restaurant being very busy.
I am so glad to see he and Norma are surviving the pandemic and evolving their food activism in lots of cool directions. Saqib posted on instagram about what happened with Food & Wine, and he and Norma are unafraid of consistently doing the right thing. Good on them.
posted by wicked_sassy at 7:26 AM on January 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
I am so glad to see he and Norma are surviving the pandemic and evolving their food activism in lots of cool directions. Saqib posted on instagram about what happened with Food & Wine, and he and Norma are unafraid of consistently doing the right thing. Good on them.
posted by wicked_sassy at 7:26 AM on January 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
Thanks, Carillon! I enjoyed this post.
posted by Bella Donna at 7:31 AM on January 26, 2021
posted by Bella Donna at 7:31 AM on January 26, 2021
Fascinating. I'm just an eater, and home-made salsas and chiles rellenos are about my limit, but the story and the additional links brought by you MeFi'ers in the interesting comments here makes me want to go back and watch 'Taco Chronicles' again! Thanks all.
posted by gp_guy at 7:43 AM on January 26, 2021
posted by gp_guy at 7:43 AM on January 26, 2021
Medusa, point taken and thank you. I was quoting the title of the piece, but in the future I will be aware of that.
posted by Hactar at 8:10 AM on January 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Hactar at 8:10 AM on January 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
I will say the recipe Norma Listman and Saqib Keval provided looks amazing and I can't wait to make it.
posted by Carillon at 11:06 AM on January 26, 2021
posted by Carillon at 11:06 AM on January 26, 2021
I think a lot of food perception of different countries are from a particular wave of migration. Food evolves over time and in families and according to available ingredients.
That is an excellent point. Also, it's not only about the regions, but also about class: I don't remember where I read it, but someone wrote that the first Chinese immigrants to start restaurants in the US had peasant background, and made peasant food, so it took generations before actual Chinese banquet food reached America. The same applies to Italian cooking. Whereas French cooking was introduced by chefs with fine dining educations.
My knowledge of Mexican food is very limited, but I look forward to trying this recipe when I can find some tomatillos. It looks like a real Sunday project.
posted by mumimor at 1:50 AM on January 27, 2021
That is an excellent point. Also, it's not only about the regions, but also about class: I don't remember where I read it, but someone wrote that the first Chinese immigrants to start restaurants in the US had peasant background, and made peasant food, so it took generations before actual Chinese banquet food reached America. The same applies to Italian cooking. Whereas French cooking was introduced by chefs with fine dining educations.
My knowledge of Mexican food is very limited, but I look forward to trying this recipe when I can find some tomatillos. It looks like a real Sunday project.
posted by mumimor at 1:50 AM on January 27, 2021
My knowledge of Mexican food is very limited, but I look forward to trying this recipe
By the by, I got my nephew this cookbook this past gift-giving season, and by all accounts it's legit. It may have been recommended in a thread here, I forget.
posted by rhizome at 11:48 AM on January 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
By the by, I got my nephew this cookbook this past gift-giving season, and by all accounts it's legit. It may have been recommended in a thread here, I forget.
posted by rhizome at 11:48 AM on January 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
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