It's named after its ATCO catalog number
February 14, 2021 2:58 PM Subscribe
Take the still smoldering remains of a defunct prog rock band, mix in an opinionated and talented South African, blend with a cutting edge music producer who has Brand New Toys to play with, and you end up with the most unlikely outcome: Yes' 11th studio album, 90125, which rose to chart dominance and likely kickstarted the entire "old bands get pop hits" string of the 80s. Listen for the first time, or listen again with new ears because it's been a while: this is a strong piece of music making! Side A: Owner Of A Lonely Heart [video], Hold On, It Can Happen [video], Changes
Side B: Cinema, Leave It [video*], Our Song, City of Love, Hearts
So many bonuses I'm leaving out, but here is Leave It (A Capella)
*The Leave It video is an entire journey unto itself. Here's a 20m documentary about it.
Side B: Cinema, Leave It [video*], Our Song, City of Love, Hearts
So many bonuses I'm leaving out, but here is Leave It (A Capella)
*The Leave It video is an entire journey unto itself. Here's a 20m documentary about it.
Leave It always blows me away, every time. Also it's not an earworm to me, it's an ear python.
posted by Splunge at 3:13 PM on February 14, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by Splunge at 3:13 PM on February 14, 2021 [13 favorites]
I checked this out to remind myself why I've always hated Yes and - holy cow: I love it. What happened? My hatred of Yes goes back to the 70s. For some reason, I'm now able to perceive the "hooks" that make Yes popular. I've aged into Yes. This phenomenon may be of interest to psychologists of music.
posted by Modest House at 3:21 PM on February 14, 2021 [27 favorites]
posted by Modest House at 3:21 PM on February 14, 2021 [27 favorites]
That rhythm section had a sound that could turn goat piss into gasoline.
Some fine, fiiiiiine bassery all over that there album.
Thanks hippybear. Nicely done.
posted by armoir from antproof case at 3:25 PM on February 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
Some fine, fiiiiiine bassery all over that there album.
Thanks hippybear. Nicely done.
posted by armoir from antproof case at 3:25 PM on February 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
Oh wow, thank you SO MUCH for this! This album was part of my high school soundtrack - I pretty much wore out my 90125 cassette tape. And yet, somehow I had never seen that Leave It video! Off to watch the other videos now.
posted by sencha at 3:30 PM on February 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by sencha at 3:30 PM on February 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
I was a fairly rabid fan...for like the first 20 or so years of the band. I distinctly remember catching this incarnation at Madison Square Garden in NYC and watching Trevor Horn recoil at the intensity of the cheering crowd when the band took to the stage (*). I couldn't help thinking 'Boy's just figuring out how deep the swimming hole is!'
(*) - I believe they were still doing the 'Firebird Suite' opening.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:34 PM on February 14, 2021
(*) - I believe they were still doing the 'Firebird Suite' opening.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:34 PM on February 14, 2021
Where did this version of the video with all the energy hilariously sucked out of it come from? It looks like they threw away the first 2:40 of this video (including the parrots) and tried again.
posted by pracowity at 3:36 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by pracowity at 3:36 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
Weird - Youtube on my iPad just yesterday served me up a guy's drum set playthrough of "Owner of..."
posted by thelonius at 3:41 PM on February 14, 2021
posted by thelonius at 3:41 PM on February 14, 2021
saw this tour. 20ish row floor. my fucking ride made me leave right in the middle of the starship troopers encore. terrific record. rabin really breathed life back into the group. of course, squire had never lost his mojo.
posted by j_curiouser at 3:51 PM on February 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by j_curiouser at 3:51 PM on February 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
This is supposedly the demo Trevor Rabin brought to Yes of Owner of a Lonely heart. It takes a sharp right turn just after 1:30. The most polite way to describe it is that there's plenty of room for improvement compared to later iterations of the song. There's some controversy about whether this demo is genuine or not. Anyway, just glomming it on to this post as supplemental material for those interested in learning more about the song's origin.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 3:56 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 3:56 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
(Grumble! Did I get my Trevor's confused?)
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:57 PM on February 14, 2021
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:57 PM on February 14, 2021
Damn, I've never seen that video version of "Owner Of A Lonely Heart" before, but I have a guess as to why it exists:
Eddie Jobson briefly replaced Tony Kaye on keyboards in 1983, with his only appearance as a band member in the original video. You'll notice that four band members transform into animals, but there are five suited members on the rooftop. Once Kaye was officially back in the fold, Jobson's appearance in the video was edited out (though there may be other reasons for the chop). I'm going to guess that once "Owner" hit it big, the band wanted to do a second video with Tony receiving on-screen credit.
(Still, Jobson's brief time in Yes means you'll have to officially tie in the Yes & Art Of Noise branches on the Tree of English Rock with Roxy Music & Jethro Tull.)
posted by stannate at 4:00 PM on February 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
Eddie Jobson briefly replaced Tony Kaye on keyboards in 1983, with his only appearance as a band member in the original video. You'll notice that four band members transform into animals, but there are five suited members on the rooftop. Once Kaye was officially back in the fold, Jobson's appearance in the video was edited out (though there may be other reasons for the chop). I'm going to guess that once "Owner" hit it big, the band wanted to do a second video with Tony receiving on-screen credit.
(Still, Jobson's brief time in Yes means you'll have to officially tie in the Yes & Art Of Noise branches on the Tree of English Rock with Roxy Music & Jethro Tull.)
posted by stannate at 4:00 PM on February 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
you'll have to officially tie in the Yes & Art Of Noise branches on the Tree of English Rock with Roxy Music & Jethro Tull
No love for U.K.?
posted by thelonius at 4:05 PM on February 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
No love for U.K.?
posted by thelonius at 4:05 PM on February 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
hippybear - thank you. Things have been rough here - it happens sometimes - and even listening to music hurts. But this — this is a thing of healing. Listening to this is helping stitch up some ragged places. Your musical choices frequently do. Thank you.
posted by Silvery Fish at 4:08 PM on February 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by Silvery Fish at 4:08 PM on February 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
this BIG Yes fan was not impressed with 90125. I didn't need my fave cosmically inclined progressive rockers to take a sharp turn toward the 80s modern and pop, would have preferred if they'd just liquidated the company, called it a day, retired to their cottages. I'm pretty sure I bought the album, then rather quickly traded it on something else more relevant to my current interests. And I caught the tour. Of the four times I'd seen Yes in the flesh, it was the fourth best. Guess I just wasn't the target market.
Maybe if they'd just done the whole thing as a bluegrass album.
posted by philip-random at 4:09 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
Maybe if they'd just done the whole thing as a bluegrass album.
posted by philip-random at 4:09 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
Not to knock on it - 90125 was the cassette that taught me what the buttons marked 'CrO2' and 'Loudness' on my tape deck were for, after all - but I still think of this as the Hank Venture version of Yes.
As opposed to the Dean Venture version that people hate on (probably because of how they were introduced to Yes, like that.)
It's in the same container with my feelings about Before Times vs post Addicted to Love Robert Palmer, but that's another story. Or 70's Heart vs. 80's Heart.
posted by bartleby at 4:11 PM on February 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
As opposed to the Dean Venture version that people hate on (probably because of how they were introduced to Yes, like that.)
It's in the same container with my feelings about Before Times vs post Addicted to Love Robert Palmer, but that's another story. Or 70's Heart vs. 80's Heart.
posted by bartleby at 4:11 PM on February 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
I didn't need my fave cosmically inclined progressive rockers to take a sharp turn toward the 80s modern and pop, would have preferred if they'd just liquidated the company, called it a day, retired to their cottages
Didn't we (and some of them) get that cake and get to eat it too? Not many bands get this many lives.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 4:22 PM on February 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
Didn't we (and some of them) get that cake and get to eat it too? Not many bands get this many lives.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 4:22 PM on February 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
Bonus content for drummers: teenage Sina plays the Owner of a Lonely Heart guitar riff on drums. Sina plays drums to Roundabout.
posted by bartleby at 4:36 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by bartleby at 4:36 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
Off-topic tangents:
So I clicked on the video link and of course ended up in an 80s music video rabbit hole and eventually ended up at One Night in Bangkok. One thing leads to another, and did you know that Murray Head and Anthony Head are brothers? Also, the sensibilities behind that video have aged even more poorly than Buffy's feminism.
posted by Slothrup at 4:44 PM on February 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
So I clicked on the video link and of course ended up in an 80s music video rabbit hole and eventually ended up at One Night in Bangkok. One thing leads to another, and did you know that Murray Head and Anthony Head are brothers? Also, the sensibilities behind that video have aged even more poorly than Buffy's feminism.
posted by Slothrup at 4:44 PM on February 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
I checked this out to remind myself why I've always hated Yes and - holy cow: I love it. What happened?
posted by Modest House
Yes evolved. Big changes. Listen to their early stuff then the later stuff. And the lineup changed a lot as well. Change is a good thing, sometime.
posted by Splunge at 4:45 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Modest House
Yes evolved. Big changes. Listen to their early stuff then the later stuff. And the lineup changed a lot as well. Change is a good thing, sometime.
posted by Splunge at 4:45 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
Word to the wise: when you get what's coming, one word can bring you 'round -- CHANGES.
posted by hippybear at 4:47 PM on February 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 4:47 PM on February 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
True, Insert Clever Name Here and splunge & hippybear. But I kinda wanna see some balding, black-tour-tshirted MeFite Olds get in a fight over Syd Barrett Pink Floyd vs Roger Waters Pink Floyd. Ooh, or break out the big guns - Peter Gabriel era Genesis vs Phil Collins era Genesis! Flame war!
posted by bartleby at 4:51 PM on February 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by bartleby at 4:51 PM on February 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
Are Godley and Creme taking the piss? There is a lot of Christopher Guest energy in that making-of-video.
"This week on MTV we've played 11 versions of the 'Leave It' video and all of them were upside down!"
posted by stevil at 4:56 PM on February 14, 2021
"This week on MTV we've played 11 versions of the 'Leave It' video and all of them were upside down!"
posted by stevil at 4:56 PM on February 14, 2021
"We wanted to shoot the whole band upside down, but - Trevor the guitar player, he has had an accident and when they cut him open, they found he had four spleens [four spleens!]"
posted by stevil at 4:58 PM on February 14, 2021
posted by stevil at 4:58 PM on February 14, 2021
Trevor Horn walks you through "Owner of a Lonely Heart" track by track here.
posted by lemonshush at 5:00 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by lemonshush at 5:00 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
The "Owner of a Lonely Heart" video makes much more sense when MTV isn't cutting off the beginning and starting with the crowd scene. And when one isn't a pre-teen. Much like Modest House, I find myself able to appreciate them more now.
posted by JawnBigboote at 5:04 PM on February 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by JawnBigboote at 5:04 PM on February 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
I learned to check my Porsche for snakes
posted by thelonius at 5:06 PM on February 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 5:06 PM on February 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
Leave It is brilliant
posted by supermedusa at 5:07 PM on February 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 5:07 PM on February 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
During my senior year of high school, I somehow landed a gig as the morning weekend DJ on our local adult contemporary radio station. 90125 dropped, and it was the coolest thing I had ever heard. Apologies to the folks trying to sleep in on that random Sunday morning in 1984 for slipping in "Leave It" between the standard Peabo Bryson and Barry Manilow fare.
posted by vverse23 at 5:11 PM on February 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by vverse23 at 5:11 PM on February 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
Also, the It Can Happen -> Changes -> Cinema -> Leave It run is one of my favorite sections of any album ever.
posted by vverse23 at 5:12 PM on February 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by vverse23 at 5:12 PM on February 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
Metafilter: turns goat piss into gasoline!
posted by slater at 5:14 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by slater at 5:14 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
I've always been a casual Yes fan at best, but I've always found their late 70s/early 80s history so fascinating.
Lead singer and keyboardist quit due to creative differences; remainder of the band just absorbs the Buggles to replace them; they put out one album with the new lineup, which bombs so badly they break up; a couple of the guys form a new band with a new name; a couple more former Yes members eventually glom on; band realizes they're now 80% Yes, so they decide to just start using the name again; new album is the most successful of their entire career. All within about four years.
And that's before even getting to the mid-to-late 80s situation where there are two entirely separate bands with apparently equal claims to the name "Yes."
posted by key lime guy at 5:23 PM on February 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
Lead singer and keyboardist quit due to creative differences; remainder of the band just absorbs the Buggles to replace them; they put out one album with the new lineup, which bombs so badly they break up; a couple of the guys form a new band with a new name; a couple more former Yes members eventually glom on; band realizes they're now 80% Yes, so they decide to just start using the name again; new album is the most successful of their entire career. All within about four years.
And that's before even getting to the mid-to-late 80s situation where there are two entirely separate bands with apparently equal claims to the name "Yes."
posted by key lime guy at 5:23 PM on February 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
I am reminded that the Boston radio station I could just get to tune in on the stereo in my teenage bedroom in New Hampshire played the entirety of 9012-Live, and I made sure I was there to tape it. And to flip the tape as quickly as possible when side one ran out.
posted by schoolgirl report at 5:37 PM on February 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by schoolgirl report at 5:37 PM on February 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
But I kinda wanna see some balding, black-tour-tshirted MeFite Olds get in a fight over Syd Barrett Pink Floyd vs Roger Waters Pink Floyd. Ooh, or break out the big guns - Peter Gabriel era Genesis vs Phil Collins era Genesis! Flame war!
posted by bartleby
Actually, I’m wearing a pink tie dye Ramones tshirt. 😜
There’s really no discussion, Pink Floyd really came into their own after Syd Barrett.
Gabriel/Collins Genesis...yeah, there would be a fight over that one but I’m gonna say that both had some pretty amazing moments. As well, the technology and times were changing. Likely because of this, Peter Gabriel’s sound changed quite a bit from the late 70’s to the mid 80’s and so did that of Genesis.
Again, no discussion is needed, 70’s Heart rules.
As always, hippybear, thanks for the post and the walk down memory lane. Leave It is still a monster of a song and the drums in Owner of a Lonely Heart still kick ass.
posted by ashbury at 5:51 PM on February 14, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by bartleby
Actually, I’m wearing a pink tie dye Ramones tshirt. 😜
There’s really no discussion, Pink Floyd really came into their own after Syd Barrett.
Gabriel/Collins Genesis...yeah, there would be a fight over that one but I’m gonna say that both had some pretty amazing moments. As well, the technology and times were changing. Likely because of this, Peter Gabriel’s sound changed quite a bit from the late 70’s to the mid 80’s and so did that of Genesis.
Again, no discussion is needed, 70’s Heart rules.
As always, hippybear, thanks for the post and the walk down memory lane. Leave It is still a monster of a song and the drums in Owner of a Lonely Heart still kick ass.
posted by ashbury at 5:51 PM on February 14, 2021 [7 favorites]
So I clicked on the video link and of course ended up in an 80s music video rabbit hole and eventually ended up at One Night in Bangkok. One thing leads to another, and did you know that Murray Head and Anthony Head are brothers? Also, the sensibilities behind that video have aged even more poorly than Buffy's feminism.
Oh my god. Mind blown, heading to bed now. I admit as a child of the 80s, One Night In Bangkok sometimes bubbles up from my subconscious, but that song aways struck me as off.
posted by mollweide at 5:57 PM on February 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
Oh my god. Mind blown, heading to bed now. I admit as a child of the 80s, One Night In Bangkok sometimes bubbles up from my subconscious, but that song aways struck me as off.
posted by mollweide at 5:57 PM on February 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
Thanks for this great post!
posted by sundrop at 6:07 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by sundrop at 6:07 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
One could argue for a full three phases of Genesis existence, with the Gabriel years, and then the post-Gabriel but still very prog years, and then finally embracing full-on pop-rock toward the end. We won't talk about Calling All Stations, because nobody in their right mind would.
Now, whether one would include Duke in the Post-G-Still-Prog years because of its use of recurring themes (not really done much in any albums after that) and the extended song medley of the second half, or should include it in the pop-rock era because of hits like Misunderstanding... that is a discussion that perhaps should best be relegated to "it's a fucking great album and stop overanalyzing this shit, it's all great music".
Much like the discussion of early vs. late Yes, honestly.
posted by hippybear at 6:10 PM on February 14, 2021 [7 favorites]
Now, whether one would include Duke in the Post-G-Still-Prog years because of its use of recurring themes (not really done much in any albums after that) and the extended song medley of the second half, or should include it in the pop-rock era because of hits like Misunderstanding... that is a discussion that perhaps should best be relegated to "it's a fucking great album and stop overanalyzing this shit, it's all great music".
Much like the discussion of early vs. late Yes, honestly.
posted by hippybear at 6:10 PM on February 14, 2021 [7 favorites]
Alright, hippybear, you could be my older brother, if he thought that much about the music he imprinted on my tender young mind. I'm still surprised my parents let him play Genesis in the car on road trips in the late 70s.
posted by mollweide at 6:14 PM on February 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by mollweide at 6:14 PM on February 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
When the Leave It video came out, the TV station I was working at had just got it's first Ampex ADO video effects box. Long story short, the ADO was a box that did rotations, flips and spins like in the video.
Hard to believe today, but we thought that video was state of the art! We ran it frame by frame to try to figure out how they did some of those effects so we could be ready for the inevitable director who asked for effects "like in that Yes video". It looks so quaint now.
posted by Zedcaster at 6:15 PM on February 14, 2021 [9 favorites]
Hard to believe today, but we thought that video was state of the art! We ran it frame by frame to try to figure out how they did some of those effects so we could be ready for the inevitable director who asked for effects "like in that Yes video". It looks so quaint now.
posted by Zedcaster at 6:15 PM on February 14, 2021 [9 favorites]
Totally sharing Modest House's experience. I do not have good associations with Yes but, this is enjoyable! Also that Lonely Heart video looks just like the Adam Curtis film I just watched. Strong, Wake Up Sheeple vibes.. but it was a different time. People in the 80s WERE sheeple.
Anyhow, if you were white girl born in the 70s with an older brother, I think you probably felt some-kind-of-way about Yes, which I still feel to some extent, but I am enjoying. Thanks for the fresh perspective.
posted by latkes at 6:16 PM on February 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
Anyhow, if you were white girl born in the 70s with an older brother, I think you probably felt some-kind-of-way about Yes, which I still feel to some extent, but I am enjoying. Thanks for the fresh perspective.
posted by latkes at 6:16 PM on February 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
Kafkaesque part of 'Owner Of A Lonely Heart' video reminds me a bit of Terry Gilliam's 'Brazil' film from around the same time.
Trevor is okay but I miss that snap! on Squire's Ricky.
posted by ovvl at 6:17 PM on February 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
Trevor is okay but I miss that snap! on Squire's Ricky.
posted by ovvl at 6:17 PM on February 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
Peter Gabriel era Genesis vs Phil Collins era Genesis!
Just did this recently with an old friend. I only caught Genesis live post-Gabriel though I was lucky enough to see them at the Beacon right afterwards, before Phil took the whole thing to stadium rock levels. Saw them in this context too.
I think PG really only came into his own after a few of the early solo ventures. And as Genesis evolved past 'The Lamb...' I became increasingly less and less enamored, though my old friend seems to have a lot of respect of Collins as a drummer. For me, he'll always just be the guy with the song that became a hit because of 'Miami Vice.'
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 6:37 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
Just did this recently with an old friend. I only caught Genesis live post-Gabriel though I was lucky enough to see them at the Beacon right afterwards, before Phil took the whole thing to stadium rock levels. Saw them in this context too.
I think PG really only came into his own after a few of the early solo ventures. And as Genesis evolved past 'The Lamb...' I became increasingly less and less enamored, though my old friend seems to have a lot of respect of Collins as a drummer. For me, he'll always just be the guy with the song that became a hit because of 'Miami Vice.'
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 6:37 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
Oh: and can I show my ancient age fides by sharing that my first Yes show was them performing all of 'Tales' w/ (silver caped) Rick Wakeman? With those insane Roger Dean inspired sets that get spoofed in 'This is Spinal Tap?' years later. (God bless crappy Colombian pot!)
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 6:42 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 6:42 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
The video for Leave It was iconic in the early MTV days. I'd forgotten about that.
posted by Liquidwolf at 7:34 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Liquidwolf at 7:34 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
This one time, in the early 90s, I saw them on their Union tour. The venue was a bowl with the audience facing down and to the east. I was on the highest rim of land in the rear. The sun set behind us and when it got under the last clouds it lit up the entire sky from below in gigantic bands of red, blue, pink, and purple. Right then, for a precious moment, I knew what it felt like to live in a Roger Dean world.
posted by hypnogogue at 7:57 PM on February 14, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by hypnogogue at 7:57 PM on February 14, 2021 [8 favorites]
Oh my, this album. I had it only vinyl, and played the shit out of it on my mostly-absent brother's awesome stereo. I can still probably hum along to all of it. On a mad whim, I picked up a copy at the local used CD store a couple of years back, and … it was not as good as I remember it. My hearing may not be as sharp, but Fairlight samples sound like damp shit. It's very much a product of its time. Yes, I'll admit to producing a terrible version of the cover on my Amstrad CPC at 160×200 resolution, but then I didn't have a Robograph 1000 System utilising Apple IIE 64K RAM micro-computer and Bitstik controller to plot it same size on HP7580B line plotter …
I loved it at the time. I'm glad I did, but it grates now. The most charitable thing I can say about it is, well, at least it's better than Big Generator …
posted by scruss at 8:07 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
.jpg){kind=link}
I loved it at the time. I'm glad I did, but it grates now. The most charitable thing I can say about it is, well, at least it's better than Big Generator …
posted by scruss at 8:07 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
True, Insert Clever Name Here and splunge & hippybear. But I kinda wanna see some balding, black-tour-tshirted MeFite Olds get in a fight over Syd Barrett Pink Floyd vs Roger Waters Pink Floyd. Ooh, or break out the big guns - Peter Gabriel era Genesis vs Phil Collins era Genesis! Flame war!
*cracks knuckles* I'll leave the Pink Floyd debate to others (I like both eras but they are a fundamentally different band post-Syd, so I feel like its apples and oranges).
NOW, as to the Gabriel era vs. Phil Collins era Genesis debate. This is a false dichotomy, as the debate is really about whether the band was better WITH Steve Hackett or WITHOUT Steve Hackett. I fall on the "WITH Steve Hackett" side of the Genesis debate. It's after Steve Hackett leaves the band that they begin turning to a poppier approach, something that Mike Rutherford(!) was the driving force behind (Collins get unfairly blamed for the change because of his solo work. Thing was, he LIKED the "complex" Genesis stuff because it really pushed him as a drummer-- he was a big fan of Frank Zappa and had an off-and-on side gig with jazz-fusion band Brand X).
And I am completely willing to die on the hill of "Calling All Stations" as a better album than people give it credit for. The two biggest problems with that album are Mike Rutherford (again) and Tony Banks. They bring in relative unknown Ray Wilson to replace Collins, bully him around in the group songwriting process, telling him that they want to return to a more "proggy" sound and then blame the album's poor sales (and dissolution of the band) on Wilson's lack of "pop" chops. Thing is, there are actually some good songs on CAS, it's just that the album didn't have a catchy single to hang the whole enterprise on. THAT's where the loss of Collins really hurt them. As much as Rutherford loved "pop-rock" music (see his solo work and his Mike + The Mechanics stuff), his (and Tony Banks's) songwriting was never the equal of Collins (or Hackett's & Gabriel's, for that matter-- hey, notice a trend here?). Blaming Wilson for doing what they asked him to do has always smacked of shitty behavior.
Now if you want to hear what a BAD Genesis album sounds like, go listen to their first album (usually packaged as "From Genesis to Revelation"). That is a legit terrible album. It's like a crap attempt at early Bee Gees chamber pop psychedelia, only it sounds like exactly what it is-- a bunch of nebbish upper-class nerds trying to sound what they think a "far out" rock band sounds like. They weren't any good at being WEIRD yet. It would take the addition of Phil Collins & Steve Hackett for their third album (Nursery Cryme) for them to REALLY come into their own (though "The Knife" off of Trespass showed promise of what was to come
posted by KingEdRa at 8:08 PM on February 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
*cracks knuckles* I'll leave the Pink Floyd debate to others (I like both eras but they are a fundamentally different band post-Syd, so I feel like its apples and oranges).
NOW, as to the Gabriel era vs. Phil Collins era Genesis debate. This is a false dichotomy, as the debate is really about whether the band was better WITH Steve Hackett or WITHOUT Steve Hackett. I fall on the "WITH Steve Hackett" side of the Genesis debate. It's after Steve Hackett leaves the band that they begin turning to a poppier approach, something that Mike Rutherford(!) was the driving force behind (Collins get unfairly blamed for the change because of his solo work. Thing was, he LIKED the "complex" Genesis stuff because it really pushed him as a drummer-- he was a big fan of Frank Zappa and had an off-and-on side gig with jazz-fusion band Brand X).
And I am completely willing to die on the hill of "Calling All Stations" as a better album than people give it credit for. The two biggest problems with that album are Mike Rutherford (again) and Tony Banks. They bring in relative unknown Ray Wilson to replace Collins, bully him around in the group songwriting process, telling him that they want to return to a more "proggy" sound and then blame the album's poor sales (and dissolution of the band) on Wilson's lack of "pop" chops. Thing is, there are actually some good songs on CAS, it's just that the album didn't have a catchy single to hang the whole enterprise on. THAT's where the loss of Collins really hurt them. As much as Rutherford loved "pop-rock" music (see his solo work and his Mike + The Mechanics stuff), his (and Tony Banks's) songwriting was never the equal of Collins (or Hackett's & Gabriel's, for that matter-- hey, notice a trend here?). Blaming Wilson for doing what they asked him to do has always smacked of shitty behavior.
Now if you want to hear what a BAD Genesis album sounds like, go listen to their first album (usually packaged as "From Genesis to Revelation"). That is a legit terrible album. It's like a crap attempt at early Bee Gees chamber pop psychedelia, only it sounds like exactly what it is-- a bunch of nebbish upper-class nerds trying to sound what they think a "far out" rock band sounds like. They weren't any good at being WEIRD yet. It would take the addition of Phil Collins & Steve Hackett for their third album (Nursery Cryme) for them to REALLY come into their own (though "The Knife" off of Trespass showed promise of what was to come
posted by KingEdRa at 8:08 PM on February 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
... and had an off-and-on side gig with jazz-fusion band Brand X
Ah: and now we close the circle with Yes as Bill Bruford drummed for them 'unofficially' around the time they released 'Moroccan Roll.' Not sure if he ever recorded with the band, however.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 9:03 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
Ah: and now we close the circle with Yes as Bill Bruford drummed for them 'unofficially' around the time they released 'Moroccan Roll.' Not sure if he ever recorded with the band, however.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 9:03 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
The a capella version of "Leave It" is weirdly revelatory!
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:29 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:29 PM on February 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
or break out the big guns - Peter Gabriel era Genesis vs Phil Collins era Genesis! Flame war!
my FPP history makes it pretty clear where I lean in this regard.
Genesis' The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway turned forty recently
posted by philip-random at 11:01 PM on February 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
my FPP history makes it pretty clear where I lean in this regard.
Genesis' The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway turned forty recently
posted by philip-random at 11:01 PM on February 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
where there are two entirely separate bands with apparently equal claims to the name "Yes."
If there was any justice in the world, both these bands should have been court ordered to go by "maybe".
posted by Jon Mitchell at 1:01 AM on February 15, 2021 [12 favorites]
If there was any justice in the world, both these bands should have been court ordered to go by "maybe".
posted by Jon Mitchell at 1:01 AM on February 15, 2021 [12 favorites]
One Night In Bangkok
That song is responsible for the fact that I cannot hear "All change" on a UK train without muttering "Don't you know that when you/Play at this level, there's no ordinary venue?" to myself.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 4:50 AM on February 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
That song is responsible for the fact that I cannot hear "All change" on a UK train without muttering "Don't you know that when you/Play at this level, there's no ordinary venue?" to myself.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 4:50 AM on February 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
the drums in Owner of a Lonely Heart still kick ass
That will be because Alan White consistently kicks ass.
(headphones for this, turned way the fuck up)
posted by flabdablet at 4:53 AM on February 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
That will be because Alan White consistently kicks ass.
(headphones for this, turned way the fuck up)
posted by flabdablet at 4:53 AM on February 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Alan White
I was going to say, I can't think of anyone else who played on John Lennon records and in prog rock bands, but, Tony Levin.
posted by thelonius at 5:30 AM on February 15, 2021
I was going to say, I can't think of anyone else who played on John Lennon records and in prog rock bands, but, Tony Levin.
posted by thelonius at 5:30 AM on February 15, 2021
And John himself, and Paul, and George, and Ringo; A Day In The Life is arguably prog.
posted by flabdablet at 6:07 AM on February 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 6:07 AM on February 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
Suppose, for the sake of argument, that it is. Do you really consider The Beatles to therefore be a "prog rock" band?
posted by thelonius at 6:18 AM on February 15, 2021
posted by thelonius at 6:18 AM on February 15, 2021
I can if I want. You're not the boss of me.
posted by flabdablet at 6:28 AM on February 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 6:28 AM on February 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
Please answer the question
posted by thelonius at 6:59 AM on February 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by thelonius at 6:59 AM on February 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
I AM TRYING TO EAT BREAKFAST
posted by flabdablet at 7:07 AM on February 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 7:07 AM on February 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
I mean, sure, The Beatles became very fond of experimental techniques in both writing and production. But they just aren't in the same class of band as King Crimson or ZZ Top or Gentle Giant.
posted by thelonius at 7:17 AM on February 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 7:17 AM on February 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Hearing Frank Beard play 13/8 over 7/4 behind Billy Gibbons's extended improvisatory flourishes is a life-changing experience. Would be even better without the unfortunate choice to autotune the vocals.
posted by flabdablet at 7:35 AM on February 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 7:35 AM on February 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
Hearing Frank Beard play 13/8 over 7/4 behind Billy Gibbons's extended improvisatory flourishes is a life-changing experience
You mean... Snappy Kakkie ?
posted by Liquidwolf at 7:45 AM on February 15, 2021
I'm glad there's love for prog here. I unironically love it. The music, but also the love for it. That is all.
posted by jquinby at 7:53 AM on February 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by jquinby at 7:53 AM on February 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
2/26/09 - Ian Anderson Face To Face With Rick Wakeman is a pretty good interview.
(note: Ian Anderson from Jethro Tull, not Jon Anderson from Yes)
posted by flabdablet at 11:12 AM on February 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
(note: Ian Anderson from Jethro Tull, not Jon Anderson from Yes)
posted by flabdablet at 11:12 AM on February 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Do you really consider The Beatles to therefore be a "prog rock" band?
King Crimson is arguably the first fully (and fiercely) prog band. That is, whereas lots of bands and artists had worked inventively with the various forms before them, no outfit pulled it all together into a single non-stop (no pop, no blues, no r'n'r) statement before Crimson's debut album. And rather like the Sex Pistols would do less than a decade later with punk, everybody who saw Crimson play that first album live immediately went and formed or joined a progressive rock band (assuming they could master the technical end). Or as Yes's Jon Anderson has put it, "We were watching King Crimson play live and I turned to Chris (Squire, fellow founding Yes man) and said, we really need to practice more." The original members of Genesis tell a similar tale.
posted by philip-random at 8:23 PM on February 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
King Crimson is arguably the first fully (and fiercely) prog band. That is, whereas lots of bands and artists had worked inventively with the various forms before them, no outfit pulled it all together into a single non-stop (no pop, no blues, no r'n'r) statement before Crimson's debut album. And rather like the Sex Pistols would do less than a decade later with punk, everybody who saw Crimson play that first album live immediately went and formed or joined a progressive rock band (assuming they could master the technical end). Or as Yes's Jon Anderson has put it, "We were watching King Crimson play live and I turned to Chris (Squire, fellow founding Yes man) and said, we really need to practice more." The original members of Genesis tell a similar tale.
posted by philip-random at 8:23 PM on February 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
This album was my first introduction to Yes, and in high school some other geeky folks said that I should check out the album Classic Yes. Which I didn't do. But I was looking to play electric guitar and the very first issue of Guitar Player I bought featured Owner of a Lonely Heart, and that intro progression was one of the first guitar riffs I ever learned. Then I went to live with dad for the summer, who had albums, and found another Yes album in his collection, Fragile. Roundabout was transformative, but made we wonder about Yes in the meantime.
posted by indexy at 8:29 PM on February 15, 2021
posted by indexy at 8:29 PM on February 15, 2021
(I have to say, if you are going to have a second Yes album to discover after being introduced to them through 90125, Fragile is probably the exact perfect one.)
posted by hippybear at 8:37 PM on February 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 8:37 PM on February 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
hippybear, it really was, and I annoyed my dad enough with playing Fragile that I knew this was good stuff ;)
posted by indexy at 8:49 PM on February 15, 2021
posted by indexy at 8:49 PM on February 15, 2021
Hmm...Discovering ‘Fragile’ & ‘Close to the Edge’! Such delicious and delightful memories.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 9:21 PM on February 15, 2021
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 9:21 PM on February 15, 2021
Speaking of King Crimson, I was very surprised that one of the aliens in this Dunkin Donuts is wearing an In the Court of the Crimson King tee shirt.
posted by carmicha at 10:03 PM on February 15, 2021
posted by carmicha at 10:03 PM on February 15, 2021
Considering how ubiquitous this album was at the time, and the way it sounds, it occurs to me that I'm a little surprised that it's not more of a cultural touchstone of sorts for movies & TV shows signaling, "This scene is set in the 80's."
One assumes this is because the rights are unobtainable or too expensive, but you would think that at least a fair chunk of the GenX'ers rising to prominence in the industry over the last decade would have insisted that the first 30 seconds of "Owner" (with that unmistakable guitar riff), or the percussion break & guitar solo, or the chorus of "Changes", or a section of "Leave It", were the perfect bits to use and figured out a way to put them into scenes. Yet that doesn't seem to have happened.
posted by soundguy99 at 5:14 AM on February 16, 2021
One assumes this is because the rights are unobtainable or too expensive, but you would think that at least a fair chunk of the GenX'ers rising to prominence in the industry over the last decade would have insisted that the first 30 seconds of "Owner" (with that unmistakable guitar riff), or the percussion break & guitar solo, or the chorus of "Changes", or a section of "Leave It", were the perfect bits to use and figured out a way to put them into scenes. Yet that doesn't seem to have happened.
posted by soundguy99 at 5:14 AM on February 16, 2021
What strikes me from the music videos is that it looks like the 80s in a way modern 80s costumes try to look like but accidentally look like the 90s instead
posted by rebent at 5:54 AM on February 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by rebent at 5:54 AM on February 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
Peter Gabriel Genesis for Lamb and Selling. But Duke, Abacab and more were great with PC. I really liked the pop turn on Invisible Touch and the Brazilian was super. Later stuff was less to my taste.
posted by jclarkin at 5:15 PM on February 16, 2021
posted by jclarkin at 5:15 PM on February 16, 2021
This Genesis derail is fascinating, but....
There isn't much more "later stuff" after Invisible Touch, but I will to my dying day defend the version of Fading Lights off of The Way We Walk Vol. 2: The Longs as one of Genesis' best performances ever.
Genesis remained an amazing live band right through their last tour. I've been a fan so long it's hard to remember a part of my life without them in there. I'm sad we haven't had new material from them for a while, but what they've given us is pretty fuckin' awesome.
posted by hippybear at 5:52 PM on February 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
There isn't much more "later stuff" after Invisible Touch, but I will to my dying day defend the version of Fading Lights off of The Way We Walk Vol. 2: The Longs as one of Genesis' best performances ever.
Genesis remained an amazing live band right through their last tour. I've been a fan so long it's hard to remember a part of my life without them in there. I'm sad we haven't had new material from them for a while, but what they've given us is pretty fuckin' awesome.
posted by hippybear at 5:52 PM on February 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
I went through a fairly heavy prog phase in high school, but never much got into Yes. However, I *loved* "Owner of a Lonely Heart" from the start and still do. A lot of '80s rock production sucks, but sometimes all that gloss suits the song and you end up with something spectacular.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:16 PM on February 16, 2021
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:16 PM on February 16, 2021
(For those who don't already know, Art Of Noise is direct descendent of this Yes album, and they are utterly fascinating. So you have an entirely new rabbit hole to explore.)
posted by hippybear at 8:27 PM on February 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 8:27 PM on February 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
From Wikipedia: "During January 1983, Horn's team were working on the Yes comeback album 90125 – Horn as producer, Langan as engineer, and Dudley and Jeczalik providing arrangements and keyboard programming. During the sessions, Jeczalik and Langan took a scrapped Alan White drum riff and sampled it into the Fairlight using the device's Page R sequencer (the first time an entire drum pattern had been sampled into the machine). Jeczalik and Langan then added non-musical sounds on top of it, before playing the track to Horn. This in turn resulted in the Red & Blue Mix of Yes' "Owner of a Lonely Heart" single, which showcased the prototype sound of The Art of Noise."
Nice rabbit hole I didn't know about, thanks!
posted by indexy at 9:39 PM on February 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
Nice rabbit hole I didn't know about, thanks!
posted by indexy at 9:39 PM on February 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm having a Mandela Effect Moment: it possible I once owned an artifact of such concentrated 80'sness as a 10' EP (not a 45, surely?) that was Art of Noise, side A was their remix of the Peter Gunn Theme, and the B side was AoN and Tom Jones doing the Prince song Kiss? Am I making that up? Was I cursed by sort of demon summoning Cassingle?
posted by bartleby at 10:03 PM on February 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by bartleby at 10:03 PM on February 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
Just to nod to the Genesis mild derail, a couple of fun neepery videos I found for all of your prog odd time signature needs:
What Makes This Song Great Ep. 57 Genesis "Dance on a Volcano"
Songs that Changed Music: Genesis - Turn It On Again
posted by indexy at 12:19 AM on February 17, 2021
What Makes This Song Great Ep. 57 Genesis "Dance on a Volcano"
Songs that Changed Music: Genesis - Turn It On Again
posted by indexy at 12:19 AM on February 17, 2021
(For those who don't already know, Art Of Noise is direct descendent of this Yes album, and they are utterly fascinating. So you have an entirely new rabbit hole to explore.)
I remember the first time I saw the video for "Moments in Love" so vividly it almost feels as if I'm back in 1985 in a room with dark wood paneling, deep pile carpet and a CRT television so large it seemed impossible that the spindly TV cart could support its weight. I haven't thought about them in years so thanks for the reference.
posted by drstrangelove at 5:19 AM on February 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
I remember the first time I saw the video for "Moments in Love" so vividly it almost feels as if I'm back in 1985 in a room with dark wood paneling, deep pile carpet and a CRT television so large it seemed impossible that the spindly TV cart could support its weight. I haven't thought about them in years so thanks for the reference.
posted by drstrangelove at 5:19 AM on February 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
I know I'm a few days late to this party, but a personal highlight for me on this album is "Our Song." The inspiration for the song is a fantastically brutal Yes concert in the old Toledo Sports Arena during the Going For The One tour in the summer of 1977. It is legendary in these parts. Although the venue could hold perhaps 5 or 6,000 people, nearly everyone of a certain age said they was there that night.
It was a nearly unbearably hot and humid day in Toledo and the Toledo Sports Arena (RIP) had no air conditioning. It felt like 120 degrees or better in there, and yet the band somehow seemed to embrace the situation and amazingly played on. Clearly Toledo left an indelible mark on the band.
Thanks hippybear, once again, for the memories.
posted by MorgansAmoebas at 11:36 AM on February 17, 2021
It was a nearly unbearably hot and humid day in Toledo and the Toledo Sports Arena (RIP) had no air conditioning. It felt like 120 degrees or better in there, and yet the band somehow seemed to embrace the situation and amazingly played on. Clearly Toledo left an indelible mark on the band.
Thanks hippybear, once again, for the memories.
posted by MorgansAmoebas at 11:36 AM on February 17, 2021
I remember being "meh" about "Owner of a Lonely Heart" but "Leave it" got me hard.
But since we're talking Genesis,now...I do tend to prefer post-Gabriel Genesis, but only up until 1983. My Genesis intro was the "Shapes" album, which came out back when I first turned 13, and I fell hard for that - and wanted everything Genesis I could get right away. So I spent the next 3 years working my way back through their catalog, year by year and album by album - Three Sides Live, Abacab, Duke, ...And Then There Were Three, Wind and Wuthering, and then Trick Of The Tail. I think I did listen to Foxtrot but found that Gabriel-era was a little opaque for me, but those other early-post-Gabriel things hit a sweet spot.
And those three years primed me hard for "eeeeee when are they releasing a new album" and so when they finally came out with Invisible Touch I pounced on it - but I had been swimming in the lakes of Wind and Wuthering just prior to Invisible Touch, and the whiplash just made me think ".....bwuh?" I mean, I didn't hate it, but I went into it expecting to hear more 70s prog and was hearing 80s pop and it threw me.
I sort of backed off of new Genesis after that and stayed happily in the fields of Duke and Abacab. "Turn It On Again" was my pump-up music for a long time.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:46 PM on February 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
But since we're talking Genesis,now...I do tend to prefer post-Gabriel Genesis, but only up until 1983. My Genesis intro was the "Shapes" album, which came out back when I first turned 13, and I fell hard for that - and wanted everything Genesis I could get right away. So I spent the next 3 years working my way back through their catalog, year by year and album by album - Three Sides Live, Abacab, Duke, ...And Then There Were Three, Wind and Wuthering, and then Trick Of The Tail. I think I did listen to Foxtrot but found that Gabriel-era was a little opaque for me, but those other early-post-Gabriel things hit a sweet spot.
And those three years primed me hard for "eeeeee when are they releasing a new album" and so when they finally came out with Invisible Touch I pounced on it - but I had been swimming in the lakes of Wind and Wuthering just prior to Invisible Touch, and the whiplash just made me think ".....bwuh?" I mean, I didn't hate it, but I went into it expecting to hear more 70s prog and was hearing 80s pop and it threw me.
I sort of backed off of new Genesis after that and stayed happily in the fields of Duke and Abacab. "Turn It On Again" was my pump-up music for a long time.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:46 PM on February 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
straight outa Jarkata ...
Covid "Duke" jam - Covering a 1980 Genesis classic 'Duke's Travels/Duke's End)
posted by philip-random at 8:14 PM on February 18, 2021
Covid "Duke" jam - Covering a 1980 Genesis classic 'Duke's Travels/Duke's End)
posted by philip-random at 8:14 PM on February 18, 2021
I sort of backed off of new Genesis after that and stayed happily in the fields of Duke and Abacab. "Turn It On Again" was my pump-up music for a long time.
The Three Sides Live album was recorded during the Duke tour and is one of my favorite live documents by them. The US version gives you a 4th side which are rather outstanding outtakes from the Duke studio sessions which includes one of my ever-favorite songs by them, Evidence Of Autumn.
posted by hippybear at 8:59 AM on February 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
The Three Sides Live album was recorded during the Duke tour and is one of my favorite live documents by them. The US version gives you a 4th side which are rather outstanding outtakes from the Duke studio sessions which includes one of my ever-favorite songs by them, Evidence Of Autumn.
posted by hippybear at 8:59 AM on February 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
Hippybear - I took my high school yearbook quote from You Might Recall.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:28 AM on February 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:28 AM on February 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
So I did manage to cross the streams in one direction -- here is GTR (Steve Howe and Steve Hackett) doing a cover of I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe). A bit of Yes covering a bit of Genesis.
posted by hippybear at 2:06 PM on February 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 2:06 PM on February 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
« Older so who is there left to trust? | Ice, ice baby Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by hippybear at 2:58 PM on February 14, 2021 [4 favorites]