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February 16, 2021 9:29 PM Subscribe
Missing from these comparisons is plain bamboo chopsticks (Chinese shape is what I grew up with and thus prefer). Sure they might not be the most 'stylish' or whatever, but to my fairly clumsy hands, they're the most pleasant to eat with.
posted by Dysk at 9:51 PM on February 16, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 9:51 PM on February 16, 2021 [11 favorites]
It seems folly to recommend a "best" here. A bunch of good ones sure, but best is what you like, not what a bunch of food bloggers like.
posted by bonehead at 9:52 PM on February 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 9:52 PM on February 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
Do forks next, you cowards
posted by phooky at 10:18 PM on February 16, 2021 [58 favorites]
posted by phooky at 10:18 PM on February 16, 2021 [58 favorites]
The only chopsticks I find to be really hard to use are the Korean-style stainless steel chopsticks. Heavy and slick, the food slides out under your grip so easily. They make sense environmentally, but man they are hard to use. Meanwhile cheap Japanese waribashi, or disposable, wooden chopsticks are terrible for the environment, but are very light and grip food very easily.
posted by zardoz at 10:19 PM on February 16, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by zardoz at 10:19 PM on February 16, 2021 [13 favorites]
But these chopsticks are designed to be optimised for their respective cuisines! Argh. Anyway this seems Chinese food-oriented, so there's that.
posted by cendawanita at 10:50 PM on February 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 10:50 PM on February 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
It is a bit like trying to pick which is best, a butter knife or a steak knife. It will depend on what you're trying to eat.
posted by Dysk at 10:54 PM on February 16, 2021
posted by Dysk at 10:54 PM on February 16, 2021
It seems folly to recommend a "best" here. A bunch of good ones sure, but best is what you like, not what a bunch of food bloggers like.
That's the point of the article. It says taste in chopsticks is subjective and recommends about a dozen good ones depending on what one values, discussing each in detail. If that's folly I'm not sure how else one could pick out chopsticks online, just throw a dart at google I guess...
I enjoy these Wirecutter lists, they scratch the same itch as America's Test Kitchen cookbooks. Something about the beanplating of mundane objects is really appealing to me.
posted by Emily's Fist at 11:11 PM on February 16, 2021 [13 favorites]
That's the point of the article. It says taste in chopsticks is subjective and recommends about a dozen good ones depending on what one values, discussing each in detail. If that's folly I'm not sure how else one could pick out chopsticks online, just throw a dart at google I guess...
I enjoy these Wirecutter lists, they scratch the same itch as America's Test Kitchen cookbooks. Something about the beanplating of mundane objects is really appealing to me.
posted by Emily's Fist at 11:11 PM on February 16, 2021 [13 favorites]
This is a good article and I feel they actually made more effort to explain their method than usual and touched on some cultural nuances of chopsticks. I think the “how we picked” and “how we tested” sections directly address some of the hot takes in here.
I have little objection to their crowd favourite. My
parents have these as well as the metal Korean ones. As a family we usually use the metal ones but the bamboo ones with the little grooves at the end have been really reliable for people who are not as adept with chopsticks - lightweight, comfortable, and the grooves help grip slippier food.
My main objection is to the specific recommended product. 5 sets with each pair having a different color is annoying. Cute for a dinner party maybe, but annoying for everyday use because yes, I would need each chopstick to match.
posted by like_neon at 11:24 PM on February 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
I have little objection to their crowd favourite. My
parents have these as well as the metal Korean ones. As a family we usually use the metal ones but the bamboo ones with the little grooves at the end have been really reliable for people who are not as adept with chopsticks - lightweight, comfortable, and the grooves help grip slippier food.
My main objection is to the specific recommended product. 5 sets with each pair having a different color is annoying. Cute for a dinner party maybe, but annoying for everyday use because yes, I would need each chopstick to match.
posted by like_neon at 11:24 PM on February 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
I did read the article and my comment wasn't intended as a hot take. I mean, it feels notable that none of the recommended types were in the korean style and yet, which type would be a great starter style if you're handling soft tofu and hot stews? Meh.
posted by cendawanita at 12:16 AM on February 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 12:16 AM on February 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
How embarrassing, I actually have a set of the Crate & Barrel winners that I bought at least 5 years ago, maybe more. That's probably the first time ever I was out in front of some NYT style trend.
posted by chavenet at 12:53 AM on February 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 12:53 AM on February 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
Not a big chopsticks user, but I have a set of silver plated (I assume) ones I bought in a big wad of metal chopsticks from a thrift store. They’re intricately molded and carved and actually quite beautiful.
posted by jamjam at 1:08 AM on February 17, 2021
posted by jamjam at 1:08 AM on February 17, 2021
And have a shallow elliptical rather than square or round cross section.
posted by jamjam at 1:17 AM on February 17, 2021
posted by jamjam at 1:17 AM on February 17, 2021
I made a jig for making chopsticks at home. It's quite easy and satisfying, and if you make your own then you can even look down on chavenet and their trendy Crate & Barrel chopsticks they were into way before they were popular.
posted by Harald74 at 1:24 AM on February 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Harald74 at 1:24 AM on February 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
I feel better about my neglected long cooking chopsticks now, as I'd been attributing my failure with them to my own clumsiness (to be fair, probably also a factor). I'll keep them though, as they are useful for picking things out of particular awkward spaces, though might re-file them with cleaning supplies.
posted by Vortisaur at 2:08 AM on February 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Vortisaur at 2:08 AM on February 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
> I don't really trust The Wirecutter anymore (thank you affiliate marketing!)
dear reader, pitch us on your business case for "wirecutter: best chopsticks". why has capitalism blesssed us with this web page?
posted by are-coral-made at 2:41 AM on February 17, 2021
dear reader, pitch us on your business case for "wirecutter: best chopsticks". why has capitalism blesssed us with this web page?
posted by are-coral-made at 2:41 AM on February 17, 2021
I used to use Wirecutter a lot but now I keep hitting a paywall. Is it the same for everyone or is it location-based? (I'm in the UK)
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:15 AM on February 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:15 AM on February 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
Consider "wirecutter: best chopsticks" page versus "wirecutter: best drip coffee maker" page: the business case showdown.
(a) When only the best will do, twice as many folks search for the "best drip coffee maker" compared to those who seek "best chopsticks". But when folks are more open to satisfaction, eleven times more folks are interested in "chopsticks" than "drip coffee maker".
(b) Our friends at wirecutter appear in google search rank 2 for "best chopsticks", whereas wirecutter only manages rank 7 for "best coffee maker". In the struggle to be the best, there might be a lot less struggle to be best best chopsticks page than the best best drip coffee maker page. Maybe so much less struggle that folks who are gazing upon search results are about five times more likely to read the good wirecutter word about chopsticks than reading about drip coffee makers.
(c) Once folks have arrived at the wirecutter page and are soaking up the product recommendations from our trusted friends, suppose there's, say, a 3% chance folks'll click through and consummate their consumer cravings by buying the product through the convenient affiliate links. Suppose our trusted friends at wirecutter only get 4.5% of the sale price as an affiliate kickback. Since sticks only sell for about $6 but drip coffee makers are a whopping $200 we might expect our trusted friends to only make 0.8 cents per read of the best sticks, whereas their cups runneth over with 27 cents of affiliate kickbacks per read of best drip coffee makers.
Do we have a winner? Assume folks are only searching for the best of sticks or best of drip coffee makers. Then the relative yield of the best chopsticks page might be (a)*(b)*(c) = 1 * 5 * 0.8 = 4 cents, whereas the relative yield of the best drip coffee maker page might be 2 * 1 * 27 = 54 cents. Really naively, best chopsticks page seems like 13 times less lucrative an idea than best drip coffee maker page.
One might argue that it is a lot cheaper to research and publish an analysis of chopsticks than drip coffee makers, but it seems like there's a comparable amount of content on each page.
posted by are-coral-made at 3:18 AM on February 17, 2021 [6 favorites]
(a) When only the best will do, twice as many folks search for the "best drip coffee maker" compared to those who seek "best chopsticks". But when folks are more open to satisfaction, eleven times more folks are interested in "chopsticks" than "drip coffee maker".
(b) Our friends at wirecutter appear in google search rank 2 for "best chopsticks", whereas wirecutter only manages rank 7 for "best coffee maker". In the struggle to be the best, there might be a lot less struggle to be best best chopsticks page than the best best drip coffee maker page. Maybe so much less struggle that folks who are gazing upon search results are about five times more likely to read the good wirecutter word about chopsticks than reading about drip coffee makers.
(c) Once folks have arrived at the wirecutter page and are soaking up the product recommendations from our trusted friends, suppose there's, say, a 3% chance folks'll click through and consummate their consumer cravings by buying the product through the convenient affiliate links. Suppose our trusted friends at wirecutter only get 4.5% of the sale price as an affiliate kickback. Since sticks only sell for about $6 but drip coffee makers are a whopping $200 we might expect our trusted friends to only make 0.8 cents per read of the best sticks, whereas their cups runneth over with 27 cents of affiliate kickbacks per read of best drip coffee makers.
Do we have a winner? Assume folks are only searching for the best of sticks or best of drip coffee makers. Then the relative yield of the best chopsticks page might be (a)*(b)*(c) = 1 * 5 * 0.8 = 4 cents, whereas the relative yield of the best drip coffee maker page might be 2 * 1 * 27 = 54 cents. Really naively, best chopsticks page seems like 13 times less lucrative an idea than best drip coffee maker page.
One might argue that it is a lot cheaper to research and publish an analysis of chopsticks than drip coffee makers, but it seems like there's a comparable amount of content on each page.
posted by are-coral-made at 3:18 AM on February 17, 2021 [6 favorites]
I used to use Wirecutter a lot but now I keep hitting a paywall. Is it the same for everyone or is it location-based?
It's hit-and-miss for me (in the US) If I'm following a link (like the ones here) I usually get in without a problem. Just going to Wirecutter on my own accord generally hits the NYT paywall.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:25 AM on February 17, 2021
It's hit-and-miss for me (in the US) If I'm following a link (like the ones here) I usually get in without a problem. Just going to Wirecutter on my own accord generally hits the NYT paywall.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:25 AM on February 17, 2021
One might argue that it is a lot cheaper to research and publish an analysis of chopsticks than drip coffee makers, but it seems like there's a comparable amount of content on each page.
But the chopsticks page is a landing page for the coffee maker page and the bread maker page and the chefs' knife page and ...
Think of it as a loss leader: you review relatively uncommon cheap things in order to attract eyeballs to your reviews of more common and expensive things, that would otherwise be drowned out by competitors.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:37 AM on February 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
But the chopsticks page is a landing page for the coffee maker page and the bread maker page and the chefs' knife page and ...
Think of it as a loss leader: you review relatively uncommon cheap things in order to attract eyeballs to your reviews of more common and expensive things, that would otherwise be drowned out by competitors.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:37 AM on February 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
So, it at least used to be that if you followed an affiliate link on Amazon, and then made a subsequent purchase, the affiliate got a kickback for that purchase whether it had anything to do with the initial link or not. If you followed a chopstick link and then bought, say, a TV, they would get a slice of cash from that TV purchase. That means it completely made/makes sense to throw up a bunch of affiliate links to low value items, because you'd still get credit for a subsequent big ticket purchase, assuming the user hadn't clicked on another affiliate link in the meantime.
posted by phooky at 4:37 AM on February 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by phooky at 4:37 AM on February 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
it is also not how chopsticks/rice bowl interaction is meant to work in korea.From the article: The tips on these chopsticks are rounded, so they’re not quite precise enough to pick up, say, that last grain of rice in your bowlThis is... not how chopsticks/rice bowl interaction is meant to work (at least in China, anyway)
( push the rice with the chopsticks while tipping the bowl right into your mouth. Picking up boiled / fried rice with chopsticks is fine too, but it gets harder and more awkward when you get to the last bits of rice. And picking up porridge rice (congee) is hard from the start)
if you're being proper, you use a spoon for rice. if you're not, the tiny metal ends of your average korean chopsticks will work just fine, but you're also probably using a spoon and mixing a little guk into the rice bowl anyway.
posted by i used to be someone else at 5:00 AM on February 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
re: "best", i'd actually like to see the results broken down by ethnicity/what kind they grew up with, because i think it's notable that the few times they mention korean chopsticks, it's paired with a korean saying "it's the fucking best".
you get used to what you grew up with, which is used for the cuisine you grew up with. the food reminds you of home, as do the things surrounding it: the kind flatware, types of dessert, the taste of the boiled, herbed water, the rice and guk bowls of institutional metal or homey porcelain, the mishmash of refrigerated resealable containers for the different kinds of banchan.
which is why i think it's weird to call cendawanita's initial comment a "hot take".
posted by i used to be someone else at 5:12 AM on February 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
you get used to what you grew up with, which is used for the cuisine you grew up with. the food reminds you of home, as do the things surrounding it: the kind flatware, types of dessert, the taste of the boiled, herbed water, the rice and guk bowls of institutional metal or homey porcelain, the mishmash of refrigerated resealable containers for the different kinds of banchan.
which is why i think it's weird to call cendawanita's initial comment a "hot take".
posted by i used to be someone else at 5:12 AM on February 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
Just a note on those “sustainable ebony” chopsticks: from the UCLA Institute of the Environment and Sustainability - Despite its economic importance, the ecology of West African Ebony (Diospyros crassiflora) remains poorly understood and there is no sustainable agroforestry or plantation-based production of ebony currently being implemented in Central and West Africa.
I know companies like Taylor guitars have bought up forests in Cameroon, to promote “better forestry practices” and have “long term goals” but just ....don’t buy ebony chopsticks.
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:27 AM on February 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
I know companies like Taylor guitars have bought up forests in Cameroon, to promote “better forestry practices” and have “long term goals” but just ....don’t buy ebony chopsticks.
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:27 AM on February 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
As someone who didn't grow up with chopsticks, I've always found the disposable wooden ones the easiest to use, probably because they aren't polished so have more texture to hold onto and grab food with. Every so often I'll be at a restaurant that will have fancy chopsticks that are a delight to use; I should pay more attention to what makes them so great so that I can buy some that are similar.
The comments here about how chopsticks are tailored to specific cuisines seem like it could have been better reflected in the Wirecutter article. The article clearly has an understanding of the differences between at least the major categories, but then does not organize their suggestions by that. These are supposedly the "best chopsticks," not the best Korean- or Chinese-or Vietnamese-style chopsticks, which would be more interesting and honestly more useful to read.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:33 AM on February 17, 2021
The comments here about how chopsticks are tailored to specific cuisines seem like it could have been better reflected in the Wirecutter article. The article clearly has an understanding of the differences between at least the major categories, but then does not organize their suggestions by that. These are supposedly the "best chopsticks," not the best Korean- or Chinese-or Vietnamese-style chopsticks, which would be more interesting and honestly more useful to read.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:33 AM on February 17, 2021
Much respect to the Metafilter community for just breezing past the phrase “stuff from Amazon that manipulates my food hole” in our opening comment up there like it was no big deal.
posted by mhoye at 6:37 AM on February 17, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by mhoye at 6:37 AM on February 17, 2021 [6 favorites]
I actually totally needed to buy new chopsticks. This is super useful.
posted by ellerhodes at 6:45 AM on February 17, 2021
posted by ellerhodes at 6:45 AM on February 17, 2021
I used to use Wirecutter a lot but now I keep hitting a paywall.
It's more of a "login" wall - you need a NYT account but don't need a paid subscription.
I don't have an account because I'm a crabby old man like that and remember their indie days. But probably it's easy enough to sign up.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 6:53 AM on February 17, 2021
It's more of a "login" wall - you need a NYT account but don't need a paid subscription.
I don't have an account because I'm a crabby old man like that and remember their indie days. But probably it's easy enough to sign up.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 6:53 AM on February 17, 2021
How to tell Chinese, Japanese, and Korean chopsticks apart
Chinese = longer, optimised for communal eating where the dishes are at the centre of the table (lazy susan optional), typically not rounded. You can also find thicker stems from amongst this style because of the market demand to pair with heavier noodle dishes.
Japanese = aren't designed to be as long, and this is the style for the tapered stems, appropriate for the kinds of dishes they're for (of which sushi... isn't one of them? but ehhhh it's common now). typically comes in materials and finishes that, when combined with the tapered design, is usually the best all-rounder beginner set especially for newbies to chopstick handling. you get immediate satisfaction in seeing your precision handling improves.
Korean = typically metal, usually flat-tipped. The metal part is a historical legacy, and usually makes it the most challenging style to master for new learners (especially adult). However, it probably offers the best precise handling when it comes to side dishes AND (i'm absolutely serious) picking up soft tofu without it breaking apart. Like Chinese ones, they can come in longer sizes, to reflect their typical use in communal or deeper-bowled stews and soups.
And yeah, no one really eats rice so very daintily grain by grain. i mean, you can. usually that means you're the apprentice in a wuxia/karate (kid) movie.
(for the most part, Southeast Asian chopstick design is still very much Chinese-style with local variations in design and custom)
so. to find the 'best chopsticks' depends very much on what you need it for.
posted by cendawanita at 6:53 AM on February 17, 2021 [17 favorites]
Chinese = longer, optimised for communal eating where the dishes are at the centre of the table (lazy susan optional), typically not rounded. You can also find thicker stems from amongst this style because of the market demand to pair with heavier noodle dishes.
Japanese = aren't designed to be as long, and this is the style for the tapered stems, appropriate for the kinds of dishes they're for (of which sushi... isn't one of them? but ehhhh it's common now). typically comes in materials and finishes that, when combined with the tapered design, is usually the best all-rounder beginner set especially for newbies to chopstick handling. you get immediate satisfaction in seeing your precision handling improves.
Korean = typically metal, usually flat-tipped. The metal part is a historical legacy, and usually makes it the most challenging style to master for new learners (especially adult). However, it probably offers the best precise handling when it comes to side dishes AND (i'm absolutely serious) picking up soft tofu without it breaking apart. Like Chinese ones, they can come in longer sizes, to reflect their typical use in communal or deeper-bowled stews and soups.
And yeah, no one really eats rice so very daintily grain by grain. i mean, you can. usually that means you're the apprentice in a wuxia/karate (kid) movie.
(for the most part, Southeast Asian chopstick design is still very much Chinese-style with local variations in design and custom)
so. to find the 'best chopsticks' depends very much on what you need it for.
posted by cendawanita at 6:53 AM on February 17, 2021 [17 favorites]
Was lucky enough to befriend a traditional Japanese Sushi Chef, and he taught me that everything I thought I knew about sushi was wrong. For instance, nigiri sushi should be eaten with the fingers, and using chopsticks verges on disrespecting the sushi chef. The finger-feel of the sushi is part of the experience, and part of the experience of the quality of the sushi.
That, and any soy sauce/horseradish if used at all, should be absolutely minimal, like head of a pin kind of minimal. I liked the soft texture of yellowtail, "No! that is thawed mush, real yellowtail is almost crunchy", etc. And in modern Japanese sushi, a lemony vinaigrette instead of soy/horseradish is just fine. California rolls are not an abomination, they are now common in Japan. And what makes for an expensive Saki (the rice is tumbled down just to the tiny yellow core
and has a more concentrated rice flavor).
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:59 AM on February 17, 2021 [8 favorites]
That, and any soy sauce/horseradish if used at all, should be absolutely minimal, like head of a pin kind of minimal. I liked the soft texture of yellowtail, "No! that is thawed mush, real yellowtail is almost crunchy", etc. And in modern Japanese sushi, a lemony vinaigrette instead of soy/horseradish is just fine. California rolls are not an abomination, they are now common in Japan. And what makes for an expensive Saki (the rice is tumbled down just to the tiny yellow core
and has a more concentrated rice flavor).
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:59 AM on February 17, 2021 [8 favorites]
I have chopsticks like the C&B ones in the article but they were definitely not purchased at Crate and Barrel. Probably the local Asian market in 1998? They had a great selection of housewares so whenever I needed something I would look there first.
posted by fiercekitten at 7:50 AM on February 17, 2021
posted by fiercekitten at 7:50 AM on February 17, 2021
I don't really trust The Wirecutter anymore
What I have always liked about them is how they show their work, at least for the particular things they choose to test. What I have always kind of disliked about them is that the thing they select as "best for most people" is often not the thing I'd choose for me. But that's also fine, as I'm picky, and when they say "we like X because Y" I can usually tell when I care more about Z or W, and then I can try to figure out which thing will better satisfy my needs.
But also, what is this "anymore" business? They used Amazon affiliate links before they were acquired by the NYT. The new ownership has given them a bigger funnel into their content and perhaps a bigger budget allowing them to review more things (like chopsticks), but I haven't really felt like their reviews have lost any quality or gotten more skewed towards "we make more money if we recommend this thing instead of that thing." Have I missed something?
posted by fedward at 7:57 AM on February 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
What I have always liked about them is how they show their work, at least for the particular things they choose to test. What I have always kind of disliked about them is that the thing they select as "best for most people" is often not the thing I'd choose for me. But that's also fine, as I'm picky, and when they say "we like X because Y" I can usually tell when I care more about Z or W, and then I can try to figure out which thing will better satisfy my needs.
But also, what is this "anymore" business? They used Amazon affiliate links before they were acquired by the NYT. The new ownership has given them a bigger funnel into their content and perhaps a bigger budget allowing them to review more things (like chopsticks), but I haven't really felt like their reviews have lost any quality or gotten more skewed towards "we make more money if we recommend this thing instead of that thing." Have I missed something?
posted by fedward at 7:57 AM on February 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
In my household chopsticks are king. They are by far the most used eating tool. We have tried a bunch of different kinds, but the most consistently used and enjoyed are the cheap bamboo twist chopsticks. The twist makes them easier to grip. They are cheap and durable and nice to handle.
I think I got my last pile of them from amazon, but I try to avoid them these days and these look pretty much exactly the same: https://totallybamboo.com/products/twist-chopsticks-5pr-pk
I don't like plastic or melamine ones. The ones with pretty decorative finishes often turn out to be cheap plastic lamination. Metal ones get too hot and are too slippery. Bamboo twist chopsticks are the best.
And I will die on the hill that chopsticks are the best salad fork.
posted by pol at 8:08 AM on February 17, 2021 [11 favorites]
I think I got my last pile of them from amazon, but I try to avoid them these days and these look pretty much exactly the same: https://totallybamboo.com/products/twist-chopsticks-5pr-pk
I don't like plastic or melamine ones. The ones with pretty decorative finishes often turn out to be cheap plastic lamination. Metal ones get too hot and are too slippery. Bamboo twist chopsticks are the best.
And I will die on the hill that chopsticks are the best salad fork.
posted by pol at 8:08 AM on February 17, 2021 [11 favorites]
It feels like The Wirecutter has gotten spread way too thin, and is more focused on pushing "deals" than it used to be. There are guides where it feels like they just don't have any idea what's going on in the space (e.g. running watches), which makes me suspicious of the rest of their guides. For most everyday stuff, I still check there first because it's easy, they explain their reasoning well, and I don't care enough to look harder. But for anything expensive or that I do care more about, I don't use it for anything but a starting point anymore.
posted by sinfony at 8:16 AM on February 17, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by sinfony at 8:16 AM on February 17, 2021 [7 favorites]
Ah. I'm pretty much numb to the daily lists of deals because it seems like every tech site has its own version where they all end up with almost exactly the same list of affiliate links to discounted items. I know that sidebar exists on the Wirecutter home page but I think the only time I register the content is when I'm actively looking for a deal on a given thing.
posted by fedward at 8:26 AM on February 17, 2021
posted by fedward at 8:26 AM on February 17, 2021
I just discovered this month that bamboo chopsticks are THE BEST for retrieving English muffins that are stuck down in the toaster.
posted by DarthDuckie at 9:23 AM on February 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by DarthDuckie at 9:23 AM on February 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
→
Which is kind of missing the point: the spoon + chopsticks is the utensil, pretty much. I prefer Korean utensils to the other types. Maybe not so great for DarthDuckie's toaster trick, though ...
posted by scruss at 9:36 AM on February 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
We didn’t make this set a pick because, like almost all the flat Korean chopsticks we found online, they’re sold with a spoon.
Which is kind of missing the point: the spoon + chopsticks is the utensil, pretty much. I prefer Korean utensils to the other types. Maybe not so great for DarthDuckie's toaster trick, though ...
posted by scruss at 9:36 AM on February 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
As a White Person Who Uses Chopsticks, and who eats from all these cuisines from time to time, I found this really helpful as not just a buying guide but as an incredibly detailed guide to the kinds of chopsticks, how to wash them, different uses (the wok tray tip!), etc. I suspect that if you are, say, Korean or Korean-American and grew up with that style of chopsticks, you are not going to read this and think "Great! Now I know that I need to ditch these flat metal ones and buy some from Crate & Barrel!" They did work pretty hard to include food industry folks from the various backgrounds and to use different foods for testing, but I agree it would have been better to see "Best Korean", "Best Chinese", "Best Japanese", and maybe "Most Versatile".
I'm surprised anything survived a 1-hour turmeric dip ...
posted by freecellwizard at 9:38 AM on February 17, 2021
I'm surprised anything survived a 1-hour turmeric dip ...
posted by freecellwizard at 9:38 AM on February 17, 2021
chopsticks are the best salad fork.
Best way to eat cheezies too, to avoid orange fingers.
posted by bonehead at 9:49 AM on February 17, 2021 [7 favorites]
Best way to eat cheezies too, to avoid orange fingers.
posted by bonehead at 9:49 AM on February 17, 2021 [7 favorites]
I was going to write a long paean to my favorite set of chopsticks that is long gone but they are pretty much exactly the kind pol is talking about, so I'm off to order a pack or two. Thanks wirecutter metafilter!
posted by anhedonic at 9:56 AM on February 17, 2021
posted by anhedonic at 9:56 AM on February 17, 2021
I agree with sinfony. I have been a Wirecutter reader since their early days, and the problem is not affiliate commissions. Wirecutter's quality has gone down noticeably, and my best guess is, as sinfony said, that they're trying to do too much with too few people. Or at least too few people who know the space they are reviewing. It's become like seeing your profession in a movie; if you know a lot about the thing they're reviewing, you can almost always find major shortcomings in how they decide. Which then makes one assume the same is probably true of the categories you aren't experienced in too. I know they're trying to choose the best for "most people" which might not align with the option an expert or enthusiast would pick, and that's fine. But too often there is fundamental misunderstanding of the basic features and criteria.
I will still go there to get an overview of available options, but unless it's a cheap enough product that I'm willing to take a gamble, I no longer buy the Wirecutter top pick without further research (which used to be a reliable way to buy).
Anyway sorry for the derail, but this is a frequent source of frustration for me because I used to find Wirecutter so useful.
posted by primethyme at 10:14 AM on February 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
I will still go there to get an overview of available options, but unless it's a cheap enough product that I'm willing to take a gamble, I no longer buy the Wirecutter top pick without further research (which used to be a reliable way to buy).
Anyway sorry for the derail, but this is a frequent source of frustration for me because I used to find Wirecutter so useful.
posted by primethyme at 10:14 AM on February 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
The Wirecutter (and places like Cooks Illustrated too, as well as every other review blog out there), have codified, rely on the idea that there is a singular, decisive "best" in every category.
In a lot of cases there really isn't. There are lots of good enoughs, and lots of products, like chopsticks where not everyone comes from the same place or wants the same thing out of a product. Or family of types. So the choices tend to be pretty arbitrary and prone to the usual focus group pathologies. One person with a strong opinion in the room and you're down a rabbit hole.
I find threads like this honestly a lot more interesting. The different perspectives bring up many more or different aspects to consider or anecdotes and personal experiences to the table. A review like this registers as no louder to me than any voice here, despite the NYTimes megaphone she's been given. She's still just one person, giving her opinion based on a set of interesting, but none the less fairly contrived bunch of criteria.
It's a parallel to the replicability problem in most sciences. Any single study represents a single snapshot, a sample of one, in a meta-sense. It's nice to have confirmations, either by your own experience or from those of other credible voices. Second, third and more opinions are always welcome.
It's not really fair to tee off on this one single review. But still, I am less convinced of this implicit premise of the Wirecutter that we can optimize our lives by buying this one great thing, as opposed to that other one that has a prettier colour.
posted by bonehead at 10:24 AM on February 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
In a lot of cases there really isn't. There are lots of good enoughs, and lots of products, like chopsticks where not everyone comes from the same place or wants the same thing out of a product. Or family of types. So the choices tend to be pretty arbitrary and prone to the usual focus group pathologies. One person with a strong opinion in the room and you're down a rabbit hole.
I find threads like this honestly a lot more interesting. The different perspectives bring up many more or different aspects to consider or anecdotes and personal experiences to the table. A review like this registers as no louder to me than any voice here, despite the NYTimes megaphone she's been given. She's still just one person, giving her opinion based on a set of interesting, but none the less fairly contrived bunch of criteria.
It's a parallel to the replicability problem in most sciences. Any single study represents a single snapshot, a sample of one, in a meta-sense. It's nice to have confirmations, either by your own experience or from those of other credible voices. Second, third and more opinions are always welcome.
It's not really fair to tee off on this one single review. But still, I am less convinced of this implicit premise of the Wirecutter that we can optimize our lives by buying this one great thing, as opposed to that other one that has a prettier colour.
posted by bonehead at 10:24 AM on February 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
n-thing the "I need a Wirecutter for product review websites, now that I'm not 100% sure I can trust the Wirecutter/Sweethome of happy memory." Also, I have some very nice chopsticks that I only ever use for putting beans on the blue plates.
posted by adekllny at 10:31 AM on February 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by adekllny at 10:31 AM on February 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
The Wirecutter (and places like Cooks Illustrated too, as well as every other review blog out there), have codified, rely on the idea that there is a singular, decisive "best" in every category.
I've found the Wirecutter most useful for exploring products that I need but don't know much about. Things where there are a variety of options, features, and price points and I don't know which are worth caring about (for me specifically) and which aren't. Stuff like wifi routers, for example. The better articles (and some are better than others) help me understand what the points of differentiation are, give a general sense of brand quality, and let me make my own decisions about the trade-offs in products.
Sometimes I end up buying the thing they recommend, sometimes I don't, depending on whether my own priorities match up with theirs. But when they're doing well, they do a decent job helping me feel like I'm making an informed decision.
posted by nickmark at 11:21 AM on February 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
I've found the Wirecutter most useful for exploring products that I need but don't know much about. Things where there are a variety of options, features, and price points and I don't know which are worth caring about (for me specifically) and which aren't. Stuff like wifi routers, for example. The better articles (and some are better than others) help me understand what the points of differentiation are, give a general sense of brand quality, and let me make my own decisions about the trade-offs in products.
Sometimes I end up buying the thing they recommend, sometimes I don't, depending on whether my own priorities match up with theirs. But when they're doing well, they do a decent job helping me feel like I'm making an informed decision.
posted by nickmark at 11:21 AM on February 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
What I have always kind of disliked about [Wirecutter] is that the thing they select as "best for most people" is often not the thing I'd choose for me.
And on top of that, when I look at that particular thing on Amazon, more often than not, it has a significant number of negative reviews. Which is confusing and muddies my selection process - now who do I believe, Wirecutter or unhappy Amazon customers?
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:29 AM on February 17, 2021
And on top of that, when I look at that particular thing on Amazon, more often than not, it has a significant number of negative reviews. Which is confusing and muddies my selection process - now who do I believe, Wirecutter or unhappy Amazon customers?
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:29 AM on February 17, 2021
But also, what is this "anymore" business?
They have become pretty much a content mill these days. I own lots of stuff I bought based on wirecutter recommendations over the years and I am generally pretty pleased with them but lately I feel like they are just churning out too many reviews to actually believe they are doing thorough testing anymore.
posted by srboisvert at 12:00 PM on February 17, 2021
They have become pretty much a content mill these days. I own lots of stuff I bought based on wirecutter recommendations over the years and I am generally pretty pleased with them but lately I feel like they are just churning out too many reviews to actually believe they are doing thorough testing anymore.
posted by srboisvert at 12:00 PM on February 17, 2021
when I look at that particular thing on Amazon, more often than not, it has a significant number of negative reviews
My secret is that whenever I've narrowed down to any given product I start by reading only the bad reviews. And basically everything has bad reviews, so I always have something to read. Bad Amazon reviews fall broadly into a few categories:
(1) Irrelevant. These are the people who didn't read the instructions that clearly explained how to Do The Thing that they had trouble doing, or who use the product review space to review the third party seller who did or didn't live up to their expectations. Also the people who somehow don't know how a five star scale works.
(2) A Random Thing Went Wrong. These people did read the instructions, but the product didn't live up to its promise, and they seem to be the only people who had that problem. This can be a warning sign, more so if there are lots of different random things going wrong. These reviews are also illuminating if the manufacturer follows up, because at least it indicates a level of support above "none." Sometimes people only write this sort of review when the usual support channels fail, so the manufacturer response (or lack thereof) can be indicative. Interpret these reviews carefully.
(3) There's Actually A Problem. Multiple reviews all describe the same issue. This is the sign of a design flaw or a common manufacturing defect, and this is the most useful bad review of all.
(4) Crackpots. They have a political or social bone to pick and they're doing it through Amazon product reviews. Every now and then a crackpot will stumble on an actual problem, but a lot of the time these reviews will be just a slightly different flavor of irrelevant.
Let's say I'm looking for a nonstick skillet. In the first category I'd lump all the people who say the coating came off or the handle melted after they put the skillet under a broiler, as well as the people who say they got a counterfeit, or used product, or whatever. The second category might be one person complaining that the rivets holding the handle came loose, but literally no other people saying the same thing. The third category would be "I never heated it empty and never put it in the oven or dishwasher, but the coating flaked off," or "it's visibly warped after being used twice" if multiple people say basically the same thing. And the crackpots would write things like "PTFE causes brain damage and Amazon shouldn't sell it."
Cooks Illustrated and Wirecutter might both recommend a skillet (in my contrived example; I have no idea if they do converge on the same one), but if all the bad Amazon reviews are in the third category I'll think twice. There was a kettle the Cooks Illustrated people really liked the last time I needed a kettle, but the bad Amazon reviews were consistently about how the finish on top of the heating element flaked off, and I didn't buy that kettle.
posted by fedward at 12:15 PM on February 17, 2021 [7 favorites]
My secret is that whenever I've narrowed down to any given product I start by reading only the bad reviews. And basically everything has bad reviews, so I always have something to read. Bad Amazon reviews fall broadly into a few categories:
(1) Irrelevant. These are the people who didn't read the instructions that clearly explained how to Do The Thing that they had trouble doing, or who use the product review space to review the third party seller who did or didn't live up to their expectations. Also the people who somehow don't know how a five star scale works.
(2) A Random Thing Went Wrong. These people did read the instructions, but the product didn't live up to its promise, and they seem to be the only people who had that problem. This can be a warning sign, more so if there are lots of different random things going wrong. These reviews are also illuminating if the manufacturer follows up, because at least it indicates a level of support above "none." Sometimes people only write this sort of review when the usual support channels fail, so the manufacturer response (or lack thereof) can be indicative. Interpret these reviews carefully.
(3) There's Actually A Problem. Multiple reviews all describe the same issue. This is the sign of a design flaw or a common manufacturing defect, and this is the most useful bad review of all.
(4) Crackpots. They have a political or social bone to pick and they're doing it through Amazon product reviews. Every now and then a crackpot will stumble on an actual problem, but a lot of the time these reviews will be just a slightly different flavor of irrelevant.
Let's say I'm looking for a nonstick skillet. In the first category I'd lump all the people who say the coating came off or the handle melted after they put the skillet under a broiler, as well as the people who say they got a counterfeit, or used product, or whatever. The second category might be one person complaining that the rivets holding the handle came loose, but literally no other people saying the same thing. The third category would be "I never heated it empty and never put it in the oven or dishwasher, but the coating flaked off," or "it's visibly warped after being used twice" if multiple people say basically the same thing. And the crackpots would write things like "PTFE causes brain damage and Amazon shouldn't sell it."
Cooks Illustrated and Wirecutter might both recommend a skillet (in my contrived example; I have no idea if they do converge on the same one), but if all the bad Amazon reviews are in the third category I'll think twice. There was a kettle the Cooks Illustrated people really liked the last time I needed a kettle, but the bad Amazon reviews were consistently about how the finish on top of the heating element flaked off, and I didn't buy that kettle.
posted by fedward at 12:15 PM on February 17, 2021 [7 favorites]
Anyway I've always thought of Wirecutter more as a meta review site than a dedicated team of expert testers. I don't think I've ever bought anything solely on their recommendation unless it was $20 or less and a meta review was grounds enough (hello, iPhone charging cables).
posted by fedward at 12:30 PM on February 17, 2021
posted by fedward at 12:30 PM on February 17, 2021
My secret is that whenever I've narrowed down to any given product I start by reading only the bad reviews. And basically everything has bad reviews, so I always have something to read. Bad Amazon reviews fall broadly into a few categories:
My trick is to not weigh the 5 or 1 star reviews too highly. I like to read the 4 and 2 star reviews because I feel like these reviewers are less likely to be fake and that they are possibly weighing pros and cons rather than just being either cheerleaders or angry people.
posted by srboisvert at 12:36 PM on February 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
My trick is to not weigh the 5 or 1 star reviews too highly. I like to read the 4 and 2 star reviews because I feel like these reviewers are less likely to be fake and that they are possibly weighing pros and cons rather than just being either cheerleaders or angry people.
posted by srboisvert at 12:36 PM on February 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
My secret is that whenever I've narrowed down to any given product I start by reading only the bad reviews.
I do the same as what you outlined in your comment. But at that point I usually end up picking the $thing by perusing the various models on Amazon and selecting one based on features + the customer reviews (as per the above 4 categories), and end up with something I'm happy with that absolutely isn't the one Wirecutter recommended. So Wirecutter's rarely of use in the long run. I mean, I still check it, because sometimes their recommendations and the Amazon reviews do match, but that's the exception rather than the rule.
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:31 PM on February 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
I do the same as what you outlined in your comment. But at that point I usually end up picking the $thing by perusing the various models on Amazon and selecting one based on features + the customer reviews (as per the above 4 categories), and end up with something I'm happy with that absolutely isn't the one Wirecutter recommended. So Wirecutter's rarely of use in the long run. I mean, I still check it, because sometimes their recommendations and the Amazon reviews do match, but that's the exception rather than the rule.
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:31 PM on February 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
Also, I'm going to get the chopsticks pol linked to above.
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:35 PM on February 17, 2021
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:35 PM on February 17, 2021
To be totally honest, as soon as I saw this post I got really exited because I was sure that some opinionated mefites were going to fill the comments with choice chopstick tips. I glanced at the wirecutter article, but they didn't even mention my favorite chopsticks, so I consider it irrelevant.
I am a bit disappointed that there haven't been any "check out this crackpot on etsy selling whittled bog wood chopsticks" comments.
While hunting for an example, I found this! https://bridgecitytools.com/collections/chopstick-master
posted by pol at 1:38 PM on February 17, 2021
I am a bit disappointed that there haven't been any "check out this crackpot on etsy selling whittled bog wood chopsticks" comments.
While hunting for an example, I found this! https://bridgecitytools.com/collections/chopstick-master
posted by pol at 1:38 PM on February 17, 2021
"I don't really trust The Wirecutter anymore (thank you affiliate marketing!), particularly when it comes to stuff from Amazon that manipulates my food hole."
And this article bears that out. Plus it's longer than most NYT daily news stories.
posted by sneebler at 4:48 PM on February 17, 2021
And this article bears that out. Plus it's longer than most NYT daily news stories.
posted by sneebler at 4:48 PM on February 17, 2021
POL I am late to this party, but I came to agree with you (violently). I'm white/grew up even more white, but now use chopsticks for all eating (including lots of nontraditional chopstick fare) and some cooking. Including salad!
Chopsticks are super relevant to my interests....!
posted by esoteric things at 5:29 PM on February 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
Chopsticks are super relevant to my interests....!
posted by esoteric things at 5:29 PM on February 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
I grew up eating with the antique ivory chopsticks my mother's family brought over from the homeland. When we had Chinese food, we always set the table with chopsticks, so my dad (a white guy) is also proficient with them. In the 1980s, waitstaff in Chinese restaurants would bring him (and only him) a fork, even though he hadn't asked for it and didn't need it. I feel like more non-Asian people are good with chopsticks these days, but back then it seemed like SOP to provide forks for white people.
When I moved out, I bought my own wooden chopsticks and, like my mom, I use them for lots of things in addition to eating meals: eating snacks when I don't want to get my hands dirty (my partner, observing me opening a bag of orange cheese dust covered snacks: "Here come the chopsticks"), stirring drinks, getting small things out of small spaces, pulling things off high shelves.
I had never tried metal chopsticks until a few years ago, when a couple of friends and I went to a Korean restaurant and our noodles were served with stainless steel chopsticks. They looked super cool, and felt good to hold, but I struggled with them a bit because they were heavy and slippery. I think my personal preference is for wood.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 5:48 PM on February 17, 2021
When I moved out, I bought my own wooden chopsticks and, like my mom, I use them for lots of things in addition to eating meals: eating snacks when I don't want to get my hands dirty (my partner, observing me opening a bag of orange cheese dust covered snacks: "Here come the chopsticks"), stirring drinks, getting small things out of small spaces, pulling things off high shelves.
I had never tried metal chopsticks until a few years ago, when a couple of friends and I went to a Korean restaurant and our noodles were served with stainless steel chopsticks. They looked super cool, and felt good to hold, but I struggled with them a bit because they were heavy and slippery. I think my personal preference is for wood.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 5:48 PM on February 17, 2021
> In the 1980s, waitstaff in Chinese restaurants would bring him (and only him) a fork, even though he hadn't asked for it and didn't need it. I feel like more non-Asian people are good with chopsticks these days, but back then it seemed like SOP to provide forks for white people.
I'm a white guy and am still regularly given a fork instead of chopsticks in Asian restos. Well, was... in the era before March 2020 when people were still eating in restaurants. Some places have given my (Asian) spouse a fork instead of chopsticks too, presumably because she was with me at the time.
posted by ardgedee at 7:19 PM on February 17, 2021
I'm a white guy and am still regularly given a fork instead of chopsticks in Asian restos. Well, was... in the era before March 2020 when people were still eating in restaurants. Some places have given my (Asian) spouse a fork instead of chopsticks too, presumably because she was with me at the time.
posted by ardgedee at 7:19 PM on February 17, 2021
I remember the metal chopsticks being pretty common in late 80s Korean restaurants. Seems to be the way to go for reusability.
...which reminds me that when you ordered delivery, the meal was brought to your door in an oversized sheet metal lunch pail, with little drawers and doors for the bowls of food. When you finished, it all went back into the box and was left outside for pickup. Certainly more delivery labour involved but there wasn’t any disposable packaging. I'd love to know - ifs this still a thing?
posted by bonobothegreat at 9:57 AM on February 18, 2021
...which reminds me that when you ordered delivery, the meal was brought to your door in an oversized sheet metal lunch pail, with little drawers and doors for the bowls of food. When you finished, it all went back into the box and was left outside for pickup. Certainly more delivery labour involved but there wasn’t any disposable packaging. I'd love to know - ifs this still a thing?
posted by bonobothegreat at 9:57 AM on February 18, 2021
Remember, the Wirecutter will only review items they get kickbacks from.
posted by andreinla at 5:53 PM on February 18, 2021
posted by andreinla at 5:53 PM on February 18, 2021
While hunting for an example, I found this! https://bridgecitytools.com/collections/chopstick-master
Damn, this beats my shopmade jig on everything but price...
posted by Harald74 at 3:47 AM on February 24, 2021
Damn, this beats my shopmade jig on everything but price...
posted by Harald74 at 3:47 AM on February 24, 2021
BTW, I wonder if it was this blog post that inspired me to make the chopstick jig.
posted by Harald74 at 3:54 AM on February 24, 2021
posted by Harald74 at 3:54 AM on February 24, 2021
> Remember, the Wirecutter will only review items they get kickbacks from.
The Wirecutter reviews items sold through online stores that provide them affiliate links. Which is not the same thing at all as what you describe. Where had you heard they accept payola?
posted by ardgedee at 5:01 AM on February 26, 2021
The Wirecutter reviews items sold through online stores that provide them affiliate links. Which is not the same thing at all as what you describe. Where had you heard they accept payola?
posted by ardgedee at 5:01 AM on February 26, 2021
The Wirecutter reviews items sold through online stores that provide them affiliate links. Which is not the same thing at all as what you describe.
I can't speak for the person you're addressing, but they don't seem that self-evidently different to me? Like, suggesting you're looking for "the best x" when you really mean "the best x that will give us money for linking to them" then that's rather different, and a completely different standard to eg Consumer Reports' buying everything at full list price and having no financial relationship to the manufacturers of the products they review.
posted by Dysk at 9:16 PM on February 26, 2021
I can't speak for the person you're addressing, but they don't seem that self-evidently different to me? Like, suggesting you're looking for "the best x" when you really mean "the best x that will give us money for linking to them" then that's rather different, and a completely different standard to eg Consumer Reports' buying everything at full list price and having no financial relationship to the manufacturers of the products they review.
posted by Dysk at 9:16 PM on February 26, 2021
I think that would be true if most of these products were only available through the vendor's own webstores. But nearly everything on Wirecutter is available at Amazon and the major US big-box stores.
So it is self-limiting in a way, but considering the retail landscape here it's only self-limiting when you're pursuing certain segments of esoterica. Affiliate links are significantly distinct from the implication that The Wirecutter only reviews the products of companies that pay for the reviews. If I go to Amazon based on The Wirecutter's review of a Wahl trimmer, Amazon will pay The Wirecutter a few cents on whatever I purchase during that browser session, even when I don't get a trimmer, and even if I do Wahl gets nothing (and pays nothing) for the arrangement.
And anyway this isn't new. Affiliate links have been around for over two decades, and if The Wirecutter didn't do this they'd have to run advertising and Metafilter would be arguing about the implications of payola in that, instead.
posted by ardgedee at 8:37 AM on February 27, 2021
So it is self-limiting in a way, but considering the retail landscape here it's only self-limiting when you're pursuing certain segments of esoterica. Affiliate links are significantly distinct from the implication that The Wirecutter only reviews the products of companies that pay for the reviews. If I go to Amazon based on The Wirecutter's review of a Wahl trimmer, Amazon will pay The Wirecutter a few cents on whatever I purchase during that browser session, even when I don't get a trimmer, and even if I do Wahl gets nothing (and pays nothing) for the arrangement.
And anyway this isn't new. Affiliate links have been around for over two decades, and if The Wirecutter didn't do this they'd have to run advertising and Metafilter would be arguing about the implications of payola in that, instead.
posted by ardgedee at 8:37 AM on February 27, 2021
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posted by Foci for Analysis at 9:48 PM on February 16, 2021 [18 favorites]