A man called Modi: some call him a murderer, others a messiah
April 12, 2021 12:03 AM Subscribe
Introducing the Prime Minister of India… most westerners probably wouldn't have known of the man if they hadn't heard about him on John Oliver (his snafu being hinted at in the show, here); others might have picked up the latest edition of Time magazine, a year or so back, where once he had been hailed as a hero, almost, and now was being put into a different box; and yet, there was more-to-come...
A glimmer into the psychology of the man from interviews by veteran journalist Karan Thapar--with writers [1-2-3-4], intellectuals [1-2], advocates [1-2], economists [1-2], activists [1-2]--to Statesmen from his own Party, and even a former President.
A glimmer into the psychology of the man from interviews by veteran journalist Karan Thapar--with writers [1-2-3-4], intellectuals [1-2], advocates [1-2], economists [1-2], activists [1-2]--to Statesmen from his own Party, and even a former President.
Robert Evans covered Modi on Behind the Bastards about a year ago, Part 1 Part 2
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:05 AM on April 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:05 AM on April 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
I am no sort of expert on Modi or Indian politics, but he appears to be one of the more successful fascist-adjacent leaders of the current crop, nowhere near as blunt and cartoonish as Trump or Johnson with (probably) longer career prospects, meaning infinitely more damage. I wonder how his COVID response has been?
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:39 AM on April 12, 2021
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:39 AM on April 12, 2021
Stories about Weird Japan stopped appearing on Metafilter a long time ago by mutual consent. Bizarre Stories from the World's Largest Secular Democracy are not as clickbaity because they are inevitably more tragic. Since the RSS/BJP have ascended to power, is has become sad to reflect on what India might have become. Looking forward to reading more of the links.
posted by kozad at 7:41 AM on April 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by kozad at 7:41 AM on April 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
Indian American here. There is a bit of both-sides-ism going on in this post and this thread.
Modi and the saffron front are fully committed to their idea of a Shining (Hindu) India erected by ruthlessly dominating, marginalizing, and repressing everyone else. Their literal, bloody pogroms against Muslims (e.g. notably Modi's personal involvement in 2002, but continuously happening all the time), ethnic redefinitions of citizenship and immigration (e.g. CAA/NRC), utter intolerance of dissent (e.g. Kashmir), willingless to censor any opposing viewpoint (e.g. internet bans and harassment of journalists), culture war (e.g. revisionism of children's schoolbooks), and full war against dissidents (e.g. Dalits, Muslims, environmentalists) is one of the most ruthless, powerful, and intransigent forces of fascist ethnostatism in the world today.
Sure, Modi also may write poetry and do yoga and maybe even kiss a baby on occasion. Is that important?
posted by splitpeasoup at 8:59 AM on April 12, 2021 [51 favorites]
Modi and the saffron front are fully committed to their idea of a Shining (Hindu) India erected by ruthlessly dominating, marginalizing, and repressing everyone else. Their literal, bloody pogroms against Muslims (e.g. notably Modi's personal involvement in 2002, but continuously happening all the time), ethnic redefinitions of citizenship and immigration (e.g. CAA/NRC), utter intolerance of dissent (e.g. Kashmir), willingless to censor any opposing viewpoint (e.g. internet bans and harassment of journalists), culture war (e.g. revisionism of children's schoolbooks), and full war against dissidents (e.g. Dalits, Muslims, environmentalists) is one of the most ruthless, powerful, and intransigent forces of fascist ethnostatism in the world today.
Sure, Modi also may write poetry and do yoga and maybe even kiss a baby on occasion. Is that important?
posted by splitpeasoup at 8:59 AM on April 12, 2021 [51 favorites]
most westerners probably wouldn't have know of the man if they hadn't heard about him on John Oliver
Maybe I'm in a bit of a bubble, but I'd be shocked if most college-educated persons who read the news once a week or so wouldn't at least recognize the name.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:48 AM on April 12, 2021 [12 favorites]
Maybe I'm in a bit of a bubble, but I'd be shocked if most college-educated persons who read the news once a week or so wouldn't at least recognize the name.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:48 AM on April 12, 2021 [12 favorites]
Most of what I know about Modi is via Arundhati Roy and it's not flattering.
posted by ovvl at 10:11 AM on April 12, 2021
posted by ovvl at 10:11 AM on April 12, 2021
I wonder how his COVID response has been?
Not great! He did have a three-week nationwide lockdown and banned international flights. Mostly, however, it was left up to the states, who had a variety of responses.
New Zealand banned inbound travel from India this week because 90% of the COVID cases arriving in the country for the past three months have been from India. On some flights, 17 people have been infected. This is despite the COVID testing that is done before departure. The current surge is alarming.
posted by rednikki at 12:27 PM on April 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
Not great! He did have a three-week nationwide lockdown and banned international flights. Mostly, however, it was left up to the states, who had a variety of responses.
New Zealand banned inbound travel from India this week because 90% of the COVID cases arriving in the country for the past three months have been from India. On some flights, 17 people have been infected. This is despite the COVID testing that is done before departure. The current surge is alarming.
posted by rednikki at 12:27 PM on April 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
To be honest, out of all of our planet’s nationalist/authoritarian leaders, Modi scares me the most, largely because India has nukes, and he doesn’t strike me as being innately averse to their use. I’ve long felt that, if there were ever to be a nuclear war, it was going to originate in the subcontinent, and Modi makes me feel even more sure of that.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:49 PM on April 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 2:49 PM on April 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
I'd be shocked if most college-educated persons who read the news once a week or so wouldn't at least recognize the name.
I've been noticing Modi blipping on my radar very occasionally these past few years and I have had the same confusion about him as I did Koni back in the day: WTF is going on here? The journalism has been chaotic enough that it's hard for outsider like me to get a handle on things (perhaps by design). Is it a bunch of slippery-slope arguments or is this guy a real tyrant? Particularly by dint of the lower-key image Modi has that GenjiandProust touched on above, coupled with the near-impossibility of a suburban white guy like me to get a handle on the political environment there at all. For me it's an object lesson in the politics I choose to pay attention to and the difficulty in keeping up with everything that concerns me.
But! This is a story about them, not me, and at the end of the day I've never ever thought "yes, X was right to walk out of that interview." It's possibly the weakest thing a politician can do.
There's a lot to get through here, so thanks for the post even if it's imperfect by the standards of those who know more than me (not a dig! I'm envious).
posted by rhizome at 3:09 PM on April 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
I've been noticing Modi blipping on my radar very occasionally these past few years and I have had the same confusion about him as I did Koni back in the day: WTF is going on here? The journalism has been chaotic enough that it's hard for outsider like me to get a handle on things (perhaps by design). Is it a bunch of slippery-slope arguments or is this guy a real tyrant? Particularly by dint of the lower-key image Modi has that GenjiandProust touched on above, coupled with the near-impossibility of a suburban white guy like me to get a handle on the political environment there at all. For me it's an object lesson in the politics I choose to pay attention to and the difficulty in keeping up with everything that concerns me.
But! This is a story about them, not me, and at the end of the day I've never ever thought "yes, X was right to walk out of that interview." It's possibly the weakest thing a politician can do.
There's a lot to get through here, so thanks for the post even if it's imperfect by the standards of those who know more than me (not a dig! I'm envious).
posted by rhizome at 3:09 PM on April 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
I like splitpeasoup's comment a lot. My social relationships for those in India is mostly centered around the south and Mumbai but when I contrast it to my work relationships that are mainly northerners that split in perception becomes really evident, and I'm not even noting the other sociocultural identities. It's definitely stayed my tongue in conversations unless i know where they stand, and that multi-axial splinters is probably a key reason why the foreign coverage of Modi and his government feels all over the place, and I'm pretty certain the diasporic makeup of the key countries that drive international news (and their domestic concerns/pressures) has been a major driver. I make the speculation based on projection of my own society--we're not a major country in any way but the sizeable local indian community have fairly discernable splits like the above. We just don't get to set the global agenda.
posted by cendawanita at 9:14 PM on April 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 9:14 PM on April 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
I feel like a real old saying this, but it is my hobbyhorse when it comes to South Asia - partition was a huge mistake. The processes that have facilitated the rise of Hindu nationalism are, to my mind, heavily influenced by external political factors, specifically the ongoing enmity with Pakistan, the conflict in Kashmir, Pakistani funded terrorism in India, etc. Not excusing it, just looking to explain it. If India had stayed unified the Muslim minority would be considerably larger and there would not be the same uptake for "India is Hindu" as there is today with their explicitly Muslim neighbor-rival.
posted by Meatbomb at 2:43 AM on April 13, 2021
posted by Meatbomb at 2:43 AM on April 13, 2021
Just don't ever post anything even remotely critical about India on twitter unless you want to meet Modi's virtual mob because they will show up. Even if you have barely any followers.
posted by srboisvert at 6:53 AM on April 13, 2021
posted by srboisvert at 6:53 AM on April 13, 2021
I am no sort of expert on Modi or Indian politics, but he appears to be one of the more successful fascist-adjacent leaders of the current crop, nowhere near as blunt and cartoonish as Trump or Johnson with (probably) longer career prospects, meaning infinitely more damage. I wonder how his COVID response has been?
I understand the desire to link together multiple people as part of a bigger trend, but I don't think this really works.
Johnson is a buffoon, an amoral man with no principles. Trump is a slightly darker, more vindictive character but ultimately not a fascist, nor even really fascist-adjacent. (He couldn't even figure out how to harness a mob that he created).
Ultimately despite their personal lack of merit, neither of them represent a larger movement. Trump is more dangerous because he taps into a larger stream of white disempowerment but ultimately that is not a sufficiently large nor mainstream group to seize power at this time
Modi is orders of magnitude more dangerous because tens, probably hundreds of millions of people take Hindutva genuinely seriously. That includes a very substantial number of business owners, bankers, civil servants, and military officers. That was never true of Donnie, who never had any levers to pull on and found that when he did, the lever wasn't attached to anything.
I feel like a real old saying this, but it is my hobbyhorse when it comes to South Asia - partition was a huge mistake. The processes that have facilitated the rise of Hindu nationalism are, to my mind, heavily influenced by external political factors, specifically the ongoing enmity with Pakistan, the conflict in Kashmir, Pakistani funded terrorism in India, etc. Not excusing it, just looking to explain it. If India had stayed unified the Muslim minority would be considerably larger and there would not be the same uptake for "India is Hindu" as there is today with their explicitly Muslim neighbor-rival.
Ok, but it was Muslims more than anyone who pushed for it because they did not want to live in a Hindu dominated state. There's two ways to look at that:
1) What is happening now wouldn't have happened without partition, it was a mistake.
2) This just proves that partition was the right thing to do.
Certainly there are people in Pakistan who see what is going on in India right now and say, "See, we always knew this would happen!".
I like splitpeasoup's comment a lot. My social relationships for those in India is mostly centered around the south and Mumbai but when I contrast it to my work relationships that are mainly northerners that split in perception becomes really evident, and I'm not even noting the other sociocultural identities. It's definitely stayed my tongue in conversations unless i know where they stand, and that multi-axial splinters is probably a key reason why the foreign coverage of Modi and his government feels all over the place, and I'm pretty certain the diasporic makeup of the key countries that drive international news (and their domestic concerns/pressures) has been a major driver. I make the speculation based on projection of my own society--we're not a major country in any way but the sizeable local indian community have fairly discernable splits like the above. We just don't get to set the global agenda.
Oh yes. A lot of my school friends (mostly Hindu, from Mumbai and North India) are at least comfortable with Modi and many are big fans. One of them had the big man himself at his wedding. (His grandfather was such an absolute oddball that he wouldn't eat anything that contained New World ingredients such as tomatoes or peppers because they were "foreign")
posted by atrazine at 7:28 AM on April 13, 2021 [3 favorites]
I understand the desire to link together multiple people as part of a bigger trend, but I don't think this really works.
Johnson is a buffoon, an amoral man with no principles. Trump is a slightly darker, more vindictive character but ultimately not a fascist, nor even really fascist-adjacent. (He couldn't even figure out how to harness a mob that he created).
Ultimately despite their personal lack of merit, neither of them represent a larger movement. Trump is more dangerous because he taps into a larger stream of white disempowerment but ultimately that is not a sufficiently large nor mainstream group to seize power at this time
Modi is orders of magnitude more dangerous because tens, probably hundreds of millions of people take Hindutva genuinely seriously. That includes a very substantial number of business owners, bankers, civil servants, and military officers. That was never true of Donnie, who never had any levers to pull on and found that when he did, the lever wasn't attached to anything.
I feel like a real old saying this, but it is my hobbyhorse when it comes to South Asia - partition was a huge mistake. The processes that have facilitated the rise of Hindu nationalism are, to my mind, heavily influenced by external political factors, specifically the ongoing enmity with Pakistan, the conflict in Kashmir, Pakistani funded terrorism in India, etc. Not excusing it, just looking to explain it. If India had stayed unified the Muslim minority would be considerably larger and there would not be the same uptake for "India is Hindu" as there is today with their explicitly Muslim neighbor-rival.
Ok, but it was Muslims more than anyone who pushed for it because they did not want to live in a Hindu dominated state. There's two ways to look at that:
1) What is happening now wouldn't have happened without partition, it was a mistake.
2) This just proves that partition was the right thing to do.
Certainly there are people in Pakistan who see what is going on in India right now and say, "See, we always knew this would happen!".
I like splitpeasoup's comment a lot. My social relationships for those in India is mostly centered around the south and Mumbai but when I contrast it to my work relationships that are mainly northerners that split in perception becomes really evident, and I'm not even noting the other sociocultural identities. It's definitely stayed my tongue in conversations unless i know where they stand, and that multi-axial splinters is probably a key reason why the foreign coverage of Modi and his government feels all over the place, and I'm pretty certain the diasporic makeup of the key countries that drive international news (and their domestic concerns/pressures) has been a major driver. I make the speculation based on projection of my own society--we're not a major country in any way but the sizeable local indian community have fairly discernable splits like the above. We just don't get to set the global agenda.
Oh yes. A lot of my school friends (mostly Hindu, from Mumbai and North India) are at least comfortable with Modi and many are big fans. One of them had the big man himself at his wedding. (His grandfather was such an absolute oddball that he wouldn't eat anything that contained New World ingredients such as tomatoes or peppers because they were "foreign")
posted by atrazine at 7:28 AM on April 13, 2021 [3 favorites]
The man has not had a press conference, by himself; since he got elected in 2014; I think. The one conference he did a while ago was almost a joke. To almost every question; he pointed to his henchman Amit Shah for the answer.
In his first term; since he led a coalition government; he was slightly constrained. After his last victory; where he does not have to depend on other parties; he has let his Hindutva soaked freak flag fly. Instead of using his majority to reform things structurally to remove some of the sclerotic leftovers from when the country was still a colony; his big attempts legislatively have all been utter disasters. I am speaking here of his demonetization debacle that actually ended up as a drag on the economy; his NRC/CAA/NPR debacle that has not been resolved yet; the abrupt rescinding of Article 370 and the trifurcation of J&K without any real debate and any plans for reorganization that makes sense; the recent debacle of the Farm Law; the complete bungling of the Covid situation (especially the lockdown without providing ways for migrants to get home); the lethargic response to the recent upsurge by blaming the State governments ... I can go on and on.
My family is filled with Bhakths; and I cannot stand it. But I keep my mouth shut as I am not a citizen of India anymore. I feel that as a person who cannot vote; although I can have my opinions but I feel weird telling people living there how to vote. When I gently point out that this man is a disaster not because I don't like his politics; but because of his own incompetence in administration; the pushback I get is sometimes nasty. He has this aura that he is a great administrator; that even the last 3 years of absolute fuckery has not managed to rub it off.
I don't see this getting any better soon. BJP has started making inroads in places they never had any traction. In the Hyderabad Municipal Elections; they almost won. They are competing in WB and Kerala and TN at a level that was unimaginable 10 years ago. I really despair for the country. In Ibsen's play The Enemy of the People; the protagonist says; "The Minority is always right". I take that to mean that if a society treats it's minority population badly; it is a dysfunctional society at a basic level. The condition of all disadvantaged peoples in India has gotten worse in the last 7 years. Be it muslim, christian, dalit, women (especially in North India) ... And because of the first past the post system of elections; in a country with 1000's of parties; BJP can get a sizable majority in the parliament even if they win around 33 percent of the vote. With the opposition being completely useless; things are going to get worse, not better.
posted by indianbadger1 at 2:53 PM on April 13, 2021 [5 favorites]
In his first term; since he led a coalition government; he was slightly constrained. After his last victory; where he does not have to depend on other parties; he has let his Hindutva soaked freak flag fly. Instead of using his majority to reform things structurally to remove some of the sclerotic leftovers from when the country was still a colony; his big attempts legislatively have all been utter disasters. I am speaking here of his demonetization debacle that actually ended up as a drag on the economy; his NRC/CAA/NPR debacle that has not been resolved yet; the abrupt rescinding of Article 370 and the trifurcation of J&K without any real debate and any plans for reorganization that makes sense; the recent debacle of the Farm Law; the complete bungling of the Covid situation (especially the lockdown without providing ways for migrants to get home); the lethargic response to the recent upsurge by blaming the State governments ... I can go on and on.
My family is filled with Bhakths; and I cannot stand it. But I keep my mouth shut as I am not a citizen of India anymore. I feel that as a person who cannot vote; although I can have my opinions but I feel weird telling people living there how to vote. When I gently point out that this man is a disaster not because I don't like his politics; but because of his own incompetence in administration; the pushback I get is sometimes nasty. He has this aura that he is a great administrator; that even the last 3 years of absolute fuckery has not managed to rub it off.
I don't see this getting any better soon. BJP has started making inroads in places they never had any traction. In the Hyderabad Municipal Elections; they almost won. They are competing in WB and Kerala and TN at a level that was unimaginable 10 years ago. I really despair for the country. In Ibsen's play The Enemy of the People; the protagonist says; "The Minority is always right". I take that to mean that if a society treats it's minority population badly; it is a dysfunctional society at a basic level. The condition of all disadvantaged peoples in India has gotten worse in the last 7 years. Be it muslim, christian, dalit, women (especially in North India) ... And because of the first past the post system of elections; in a country with 1000's of parties; BJP can get a sizable majority in the parliament even if they win around 33 percent of the vote. With the opposition being completely useless; things are going to get worse, not better.
posted by indianbadger1 at 2:53 PM on April 13, 2021 [5 favorites]
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posted by Meatbomb at 12:36 AM on April 12, 2021 [4 favorites]