Fix the lead pipes
April 15, 2021 12:40 PM Subscribe
Fix the lead pipes. Matthew Yglesias on Biden's $45 billion plan to replace all the lead pipes in the United States.
When I was growing up, the local classic-rock radio station did something called 'Get the Led Out,' where, each weekday evening at a certain time, they'd play three Led Zeppelin songs.
I dont think there was a rock station that DIDN'T do that. I still hear it on the radio.
In summary, Lead Pipes suck and Led Zeppelin rules.
posted by Liquidwolf at 1:43 PM on April 15, 2021 [23 favorites]
Thanks for sharing this. I'm genuinely shocked by the low cost. $45 billion to completely remove lead pipes sounds like a wonderful deal.
posted by cheapskatebay at 1:52 PM on April 15, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by cheapskatebay at 1:52 PM on April 15, 2021 [10 favorites]
I am really fucking excited about this. Lead remediation is a (relatively) low-cost investment that can have tremendous beneficial effects. It's not the sexiest way to spend money but it's definitely one of the most worthwhile, long-lasting, and far-reaching ones.
posted by Anonymous at 1:59 PM on April 15, 2021
posted by Anonymous at 1:59 PM on April 15, 2021
And bolster the trades, too!
posted by wenestvedt at 2:02 PM on April 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by wenestvedt at 2:02 PM on April 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
Was this KGON in Portland?
WMMR in Philadelphia did this, as well. Maybe it was one of those standby programming tricks by rock stations, back then.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:02 PM on April 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
WMMR in Philadelphia did this, as well. Maybe it was one of those standby programming tricks by rock stations, back then.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:02 PM on April 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Replacing the pipes means new roads and sidewalks too, which I suspect most places in the US could use. The watermains in my neighbourhood were replaced over a couple of years. First on the side streets where the sidewalks all got replaced and then on the main road which was totally re-done and got separated bike lanes put in. Something similar will be happening in my area's section of Toronto's main street, Yonge Street, where below-ground infrastructure updates meant deciding what the above-ground experience would be and after a lot of work by the local councillor the city went with wider sidewalks and separated bike lanes being put in at the expense of on-street parking.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:06 PM on April 15, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:06 PM on April 15, 2021 [7 favorites]
If this could result in more bike lanes, holy shit.
posted by HotToddy at 2:16 PM on April 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 2:16 PM on April 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
Replacing lead pipes is good, but if we really want to prevent lead poisoning, we can't ignore the housing stock. The vast majority of childhood lead poisoning comes from lead paint in older housing stock that has a history of poor maintenance due to disinvestment (usually aligning with poverty, original redlining, and its contemporary forms). The same maintenance deficiencies that result in lead poisoning lead to other health problems like asthma. Major racial and economic health disparities result. The pipes are a good start - let's keep the reinvestment and the health protection going, all the way into people's homes.
posted by entropone at 2:21 PM on April 15, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by entropone at 2:21 PM on April 15, 2021 [10 favorites]
So get out your lead-pipe pipe dreams
Get out your ten-foot flags
posted by pipeski at 2:30 PM on April 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Get out your ten-foot flags
posted by pipeski at 2:30 PM on April 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
>It appears that radio stations don't do that much these days, so, maybe not using 'Get the Lead Out' as the title of this newsletter isn't quite the missed opportunity I think it is.
I was hoping to quote a shorter part of this but couldn't break through the plurality of negatives -- you really bury the lead.
posted by k3ninho at 2:40 PM on April 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
I was hoping to quote a shorter part of this but couldn't break through the plurality of negatives -- you really bury the lead.
posted by k3ninho at 2:40 PM on April 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
The communication breakdown is nobody's fault but mine--I do tend to ramble on.
posted by box at 3:16 PM on April 15, 2021 [16 favorites]
posted by box at 3:16 PM on April 15, 2021 [16 favorites]
So, the frustrating thing about the AJP to me is the lack of details. And, like, that makes sense because it's a messaging framework; Dems have already introduced legislative text for a lot of pieces and Republicans aren't far behind with their counter. Bit the devil is always in the details. How exactly much is grant vs. loan? Poorer cities have a harder time with loans. And generally the service line (the part that connects the house to the main in the street) is the responsibility of the homeowner, not the utility - so who will the money go to, and how will it work? Will a bunch of people get billed because their water utility is required to replace lead mains AND service lines? But there's not a lot of point o ly doing mains if the service line and house are full of it. It's just such a mess.
And I had no idea about the lead association, but I am not at all surprised.
posted by bowtiesarecool at 3:17 PM on April 15, 2021
And I had no idea about the lead association, but I am not at all surprised.
posted by bowtiesarecool at 3:17 PM on April 15, 2021
When they put in the new pipes, I guess they’ll toss the old ones out on the tiles? That’s The Way I’d do it.
posted by freecellwizard at 3:24 PM on April 15, 2021
posted by freecellwizard at 3:24 PM on April 15, 2021
Say a city of 100000 people costs 300 million dollars to replace lead pipes.
45 billion could cover about 150 cities with that population...It's a start, a big start. The savings would to incorporate other infrastructure upgrades at the same time. Power company in Flint did this with tree trimming by power lines which have reduced outages.
I'd take the 45 and want a 10 billion a year graduating down to 5 billion in 5 years. Capitalize the 45 billion to 400 billion and get er' done.
posted by clavdivs at 3:24 PM on April 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
45 billion could cover about 150 cities with that population...It's a start, a big start. The savings would to incorporate other infrastructure upgrades at the same time. Power company in Flint did this with tree trimming by power lines which have reduced outages.
I'd take the 45 and want a 10 billion a year graduating down to 5 billion in 5 years. Capitalize the 45 billion to 400 billion and get er' done.
posted by clavdivs at 3:24 PM on April 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Back in chemistry class, I used to wonder why the chemical symbol for lead is Pb. It turns out the reason is the Latin word for it is “plumbum” which is also the etymological root of “plumbing”
Those Romans were waaaay ahead of us when it came to butt cracks.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 3:49 PM on April 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
Those Romans were waaaay ahead of us when it came to butt cracks.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 3:49 PM on April 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
As long as this covers inside the buildings too (most important for leases and rentals), which I doubt as not nearly enough money - but it's a start.
And yeah, opening up all that pavement and sidewalk is a great opportunity for bikes, and things like SUDS.
posted by unearthed at 3:55 PM on April 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
And yeah, opening up all that pavement and sidewalk is a great opportunity for bikes, and things like SUDS.
posted by unearthed at 3:55 PM on April 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
> Element etymologies tangent
After playing waaaay too much ΔV: Rings of Saturn I now have Firm Opinions that 'W' stands for 'wungsten'.
posted by genpfault at 3:57 PM on April 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
After playing waaaay too much ΔV: Rings of Saturn I now have Firm Opinions that 'W' stands for 'wungsten'.
posted by genpfault at 3:57 PM on April 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
I can't wait to see this become a contentious cultural issue.
No way dictator Biden is taking my family's lead pipes!
posted by paper chromatographologist at 4:00 PM on April 15, 2021 [12 favorites]
No way dictator Biden is taking my family's lead pipes!
posted by paper chromatographologist at 4:00 PM on April 15, 2021 [12 favorites]
I kind-of can't believe this whole thing where ... the president does things? Good things? And Congress passes them? Like I have whiplash because so much governing keeps happening all at once, across hundreds of domains. I'm still all, "Well thank goodness we finally at least have competent pandemic management" and we're all "remove lead water pipes!" and "sanction Russia!" and "trans healthcare in the military!" and "fair housing standards restored!" and "rejoining the Paris agreement!" and "poets on the cover of Vogue!" WHAT IS HAPPEN? I can't keep track when the government functions properly!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 4:17 PM on April 15, 2021 [18 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 4:17 PM on April 15, 2021 [18 favorites]
I am slightly worried by what happens if you partially replace a lead system with copper: All or nothing is a better strategy for keeping drinking water lead levels low: Partially replacing lead water service lines with copper increases lead in household drinking water
So you would want to do both the city and the house in one go, but with that caveat, I'm sure redoing the plumbing systems in a lot of cities would be a good idea, particularly older ones that still use lead.
posted by Canageek at 4:49 PM on April 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
So you would want to do both the city and the house in one go, but with that caveat, I'm sure redoing the plumbing systems in a lot of cities would be a good idea, particularly older ones that still use lead.
posted by Canageek at 4:49 PM on April 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
WHJY (Providence) was all over Get The Led Out and Whole Lotta Led
But more importantly, it’s nice to see an executive who wants to spend money in a way that will actually benefit the citizens of the country he’s at the pleasure of serving
Joe Biden... now he’s reached that age, he’s trying to do the best he can.
posted by armoir from antproof case at 4:57 PM on April 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
But more importantly, it’s nice to see an executive who wants to spend money in a way that will actually benefit the citizens of the country he’s at the pleasure of serving
Joe Biden... now he’s reached that age, he’s trying to do the best he can.
posted by armoir from antproof case at 4:57 PM on April 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Replacing the pipes means new roads and sidewalks too, which I suspect most places in the US could use. The watermains in my neighbourhood were replaced over a couple of years. First on the side streets where the sidewalks all got replaced and then on the main road which was totally re-done and got separated bike lanes put in.
The water mains aren't lead, just the pipes into each house. (The 100 year old cast iron water main on my street was finally dug out and replaced a few years ago, after repeated leaks.) I'm guessing that lead pipes within a house are rare, but the service lines are still lead.
Just running new house lines would usually be a small hole cut in the street to tap the water main. It probably doesn't need a trench to the house.
Here's a method for winching a cone wedge through the existing pipe, pulling a polyethylene replacement pipe through the split old pipe. No digging except out at the street where it connects to the main. Youtube link. In this case, it was a new line from the underground water meter to the house. Or there might be a shutoff valve near the street instead of a meter out there.
~~~
The local gas lines were replaced a few years ago in my old house neighborhood. A new plastic main was drilled horizontally near the street from corner to corner. Then for each house connection, a small hole was dug down to the new pipe, and a feeder to the house was either trenched or drilled into the basements. They punched a horizontal hole under the sidewalks, leaving them in place.
It was the third gas line for my 1880s era house! The first one was probably in the 1890s--just a few rusty bits were in the trench by the house basement. The working steel gas pipe was from sometime in the 20th century. Now it's sturdy yellow poly.
This is good. Cut down on outdoor methane leaks, which are bad for global warming.
posted by jjj606 at 5:02 PM on April 15, 2021 [8 favorites]
The water mains aren't lead, just the pipes into each house. (The 100 year old cast iron water main on my street was finally dug out and replaced a few years ago, after repeated leaks.) I'm guessing that lead pipes within a house are rare, but the service lines are still lead.
Just running new house lines would usually be a small hole cut in the street to tap the water main. It probably doesn't need a trench to the house.
Here's a method for winching a cone wedge through the existing pipe, pulling a polyethylene replacement pipe through the split old pipe. No digging except out at the street where it connects to the main. Youtube link. In this case, it was a new line from the underground water meter to the house. Or there might be a shutoff valve near the street instead of a meter out there.
~~~
The local gas lines were replaced a few years ago in my old house neighborhood. A new plastic main was drilled horizontally near the street from corner to corner. Then for each house connection, a small hole was dug down to the new pipe, and a feeder to the house was either trenched or drilled into the basements. They punched a horizontal hole under the sidewalks, leaving them in place.
It was the third gas line for my 1880s era house! The first one was probably in the 1890s--just a few rusty bits were in the trench by the house basement. The working steel gas pipe was from sometime in the 20th century. Now it's sturdy yellow poly.
This is good. Cut down on outdoor methane leaks, which are bad for global warming.
posted by jjj606 at 5:02 PM on April 15, 2021 [8 favorites]
The watermains in my neighbourhood were replaced over a couple of years. First on the side streets where the sidewalks all got replaced and then on the main road which was totally re-done and got separated bike lanes put in.
Chicago has been on a massive water main replacement drive for a while. BUT being Chicago they of course fuck it up by not replacing the lead lines into people's homes saying that is not their responsibility. Except the city required only lead lines into people's homes for decades after everyone else stopped.
To make matters even worse the water main replacement actually disturbs the lead in the lines leading into the homes and dramatically increases the lead in the tap water for at least several weeks.
The city also knowingly ran park drinking fountains for years with lead contamination. When finally busted and hassled for it for over two years they eventually solved the problem by turning off all the fountains. They also fudged their citywide water testing regimen by using only the city's water department's own staff's homes as the sample sites.
And this is in the strongest Democratic stronghold in the country.
But no worries it is just a cumulative neurotoxin.
posted by srboisvert at 5:39 PM on April 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
Chicago has been on a massive water main replacement drive for a while. BUT being Chicago they of course fuck it up by not replacing the lead lines into people's homes saying that is not their responsibility. Except the city required only lead lines into people's homes for decades after everyone else stopped.
To make matters even worse the water main replacement actually disturbs the lead in the lines leading into the homes and dramatically increases the lead in the tap water for at least several weeks.
The city also knowingly ran park drinking fountains for years with lead contamination. When finally busted and hassled for it for over two years they eventually solved the problem by turning off all the fountains. They also fudged their citywide water testing regimen by using only the city's water department's own staff's homes as the sample sites.
And this is in the strongest Democratic stronghold in the country.
But no worries it is just a cumulative neurotoxin.
posted by srboisvert at 5:39 PM on April 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
No way dictator Biden is taking my family's lead pipes!
I hear he's doing it so you can't hand-load bullets, and then he'll close all the Wal-Marts so you can't buy guns any more, either!
HAMBURGER
posted by wenestvedt at 6:05 PM on April 15, 2021
I hear he's doing it so you can't hand-load bullets, and then he'll close all the Wal-Marts so you can't buy guns any more, either!
HAMBURGER
posted by wenestvedt at 6:05 PM on April 15, 2021
I'm guessing that lead pipes within a house are rare
1986 is the cut off date. Before that....
I'd be interesting in knowing more about what they intend on replacing it with. Quick google search gives a lot of different claims about the various plastic options.
posted by BWA at 7:38 PM on April 15, 2021
1986 is the cut off date. Before that....
I'd be interesting in knowing more about what they intend on replacing it with. Quick google search gives a lot of different claims about the various plastic options.
posted by BWA at 7:38 PM on April 15, 2021
The Economist this week reports that, in response to a lawsuit, Newark, New Jersey just finished replacing every one of its lead residential water service pipes. They did the whole job in about two years, at an average cost of $4,500 per pipe. So this is very doable, if the motivation is there.
posted by JimInLoganSquare at 7:55 PM on April 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by JimInLoganSquare at 7:55 PM on April 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
Oh, and regarding my old home town, the same article states that Chicago has the most lead pipes of any American city and is replacing them at only 800 per year on average. So way to go Chicago, maybe call up Newark for advice.
posted by JimInLoganSquare at 7:58 PM on April 15, 2021
posted by JimInLoganSquare at 7:58 PM on April 15, 2021
Lead pipes in the home are extremely rare. Prior to the 1950s, houses were plumbed with galvanized steel pipes that threaded together. 1950s on, copper pipes with soldered joints are the norm. Leaded solder was used in those joints into the early 2000s (an economical replacement wasn’t invented until 1997). Now, the total amount of that in a typical home is probably in the single digit grams (or less). Of course, copper is actually poisonous in large enough quantities but the minerals in water quickly coat the inside of the pipes, rendering them safe. Probably keeps the leaded solder from leaching into the water, as well. Which is why you shouldn’t drink softened water — it’s really only meant for cleaning.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 8:46 PM on April 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Big Al 8000 at 8:46 PM on April 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
My late ‘30s house in Cincinnati had a lead p-trap for the bathtub drain.
posted by mmascolino at 9:04 PM on April 15, 2021
posted by mmascolino at 9:04 PM on April 15, 2021
My late ‘30s house in Cincinnati had a lead p-trap for the bathtub drain.
Please tell me you didn’t drink from it.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 9:29 PM on April 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Please tell me you didn’t drink from it.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 9:29 PM on April 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
unearthed: ...opening up all that pavement and sidewalk is a great opportunity for bikes, and things like SUDS.
Aside from the usual "Eponysterical!"..
I like thinking of this as an opportunity! What else could we do during major projects like this? Bury power lines & cable & fiber? Add more wheelchair cuts to sidewalks? Install real curbs???
posted by wenestvedt at 6:56 AM on April 16, 2021
Aside from the usual "Eponysterical!"..
I like thinking of this as an opportunity! What else could we do during major projects like this? Bury power lines & cable & fiber? Add more wheelchair cuts to sidewalks? Install real curbs???
posted by wenestvedt at 6:56 AM on April 16, 2021
Yeah, when they were replacing the sidewalks they added these metal plates at the curb cuts to make it easier for people with difficulty seeing to know they were coming to the road. It makes it harder to roller blade on the sidewalk but apart from that was another improvement.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:51 AM on April 16, 2021
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:51 AM on April 16, 2021
Additional LeadFilter content: Florida’s only lead factory finds itself in damage-control mode (via)
posted by tonycpsu at 9:52 AM on April 17, 2021
posted by tonycpsu at 9:52 AM on April 17, 2021
I did work for an automotive battery plant in my former job. That work is much cleaner than recycling and even then it’s incredibly dangerous due to the constant exposure.
Now, think about what these sorts of plants look like in other countries, where the health, safety and environmental rules aren’t nearly as rigorous as in the US.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 3:56 PM on April 17, 2021
Now, think about what these sorts of plants look like in other countries, where the health, safety and environmental rules aren’t nearly as rigorous as in the US.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 3:56 PM on April 17, 2021
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It appears that radio stations don't do that much these days, so, maybe not using 'Get the Lead Out' as the title of this newsletter isn't quite the missed opportunity I think it is.
posted by box at 1:34 PM on April 15, 2021 [10 favorites]