Leaflets three, let it be.
May 16, 2021 7:08 AM Subscribe
The part they didn't go into depth on is that only humans and some primates are allergic to urushiol. And if the damn stuff is only going to get worse, could we invent some kind of medication that would suppress that allergy? You can be careful and then your dog happily rolls in the stuff and then you're screwed.
posted by emjaybee at 7:22 AM on May 16, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 7:22 AM on May 16, 2021 [6 favorites]
As a kid, I bumbled through what may or may not have been a patch of poison ivy and didn't end up with an itch, and ever since I've maintained that my super power is immunity to poison ivy. This bothers my wife every time I bring it up and/or jokingly suggest that I go grab a handful when we see any ("leaves of three, roll in me!"), but now I see in TFA that only 80-90% of people actually are allergic to the stuff so it actually is a possibility that I'm immune, and damn, I really don't know how I'm going to resist finding out sooner or later ... it probably will be regrettable.
posted by DingoMutt at 8:20 AM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by DingoMutt at 8:20 AM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
Except in rare, five-leaflet populations in Massachusetts and Texas, poison ivy’s leaflets are arranged in threes. But the plant can otherwise be so morphologically variable that it confounds all but expert observers.
Leaves outside, run and hide.
posted by wreckingball at 8:25 AM on May 16, 2021 [39 favorites]
You have to be exposed to it before you can develop an allergy, so anyone encountering it for the first time is going to come away itch-free. You'll probably be okay the first few times. But if you keep exposing yourself, eventually you'll probably get a reaction.
posted by Redstart at 8:33 AM on May 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Redstart at 8:33 AM on May 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
Typical east coast intellectual NYT bias. It's poison oak that's the real menace. And that shit has no superpowers, it's just pure malice.
posted by Nelson at 8:37 AM on May 16, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 8:37 AM on May 16, 2021 [8 favorites]
Let me spare you the details about taking a leak in a poison oak patch.
posted by roger ackroyd at 8:41 AM on May 16, 2021
posted by roger ackroyd at 8:41 AM on May 16, 2021
One thing not mentioned in the article is that poison ivy is very closely related to Toxicodendron vernicifluum from which the sap used to make Chinese/Japanese/Korean lacquer is made. The sap is mostly urushiol, and the name of the compound comes from the Japanese urushi.
Years ago, when I was learning japanning (the western imitation of oriental lacquer) our teacher briefly mentioned using urushi to restore light-damaged lacquer, but warned us off using it as it is just as allergenic as poison ivy, and can have anything from no effect at all to six weeks prostrate in bed. He also said that hereditary lacquer-working families in Japan tended to not be allergic (which makes sense) and that in the past boy babies in such families were placed naked on a panel of freshly-cured lacquer (which would have only very slight allergenic effects), to check if they would be able to follow the family profession or (if they developed a rash) would have to be trained to do something else.
posted by Fuchsoid at 8:44 AM on May 16, 2021 [30 favorites]
Years ago, when I was learning japanning (the western imitation of oriental lacquer) our teacher briefly mentioned using urushi to restore light-damaged lacquer, but warned us off using it as it is just as allergenic as poison ivy, and can have anything from no effect at all to six weeks prostrate in bed. He also said that hereditary lacquer-working families in Japan tended to not be allergic (which makes sense) and that in the past boy babies in such families were placed naked on a panel of freshly-cured lacquer (which would have only very slight allergenic effects), to check if they would be able to follow the family profession or (if they developed a rash) would have to be trained to do something else.
posted by Fuchsoid at 8:44 AM on May 16, 2021 [30 favorites]
To hell with poison ivy.
posted by wenestvedt at 8:49 AM on May 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by wenestvedt at 8:49 AM on May 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
You have to be exposed to it before you can develop an allergy, so anyone encountering it for the first time is going to come away itch-free. You'll probably be okay the first few times. But if you keep exposing yourself, eventually you'll probably get a reaction.
Can confirm. DingoMutt, I strongly caution against your plan. For me, it was hanging out at an outdoor concert in a farm field at dusk with the mosquitos out, and the combination of the itchy mosquito bites that I absent-mindedly scratched at and the two-weeks(!)-earlier poison ivy exposure that I hadn't even known about at the time overloaded my immune system or something. And then I had poison ivy rash all over both arms and both legs. Do not recommend. (This coincided with developing hayfever too, taking longer to recover from low-sleep nights or muscle injuries, and generally no longer being an invulnerable young person after reaching my early 30s. Sigh.)
posted by eviemath at 8:58 AM on May 16, 2021 [6 favorites]
Can confirm. DingoMutt, I strongly caution against your plan. For me, it was hanging out at an outdoor concert in a farm field at dusk with the mosquitos out, and the combination of the itchy mosquito bites that I absent-mindedly scratched at and the two-weeks(!)-earlier poison ivy exposure that I hadn't even known about at the time overloaded my immune system or something. And then I had poison ivy rash all over both arms and both legs. Do not recommend. (This coincided with developing hayfever too, taking longer to recover from low-sleep nights or muscle injuries, and generally no longer being an invulnerable young person after reaching my early 30s. Sigh.)
posted by eviemath at 8:58 AM on May 16, 2021 [6 favorites]
My poor suffering wife is insanely allergic to the stuff. It sometimes seems like all that she needs to do is stand in the same yard as a single plant, and it somehow transmits its toxins through the air onto her skin. It’s crazy how easily she reacts to it.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:22 AM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Thorzdad at 9:22 AM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
As a kid, I bumbled through what may or may not have been a patch of poison ivy and didn't end up with an itch
As a kid, I certainly bumbled through many patches of poison ivy and poison oak without having any reaction whatsoever. My friends were not so lucky.
Mosquitos and some other biting insects, on the other hand, favor me over others and can cause some pretty gnarly reactions if I get really swarmed. Every single bite would leave a large welt that lasted for like a week. Thankfully, that reaction has decreased as I've gotten older, but they still swarm me selectively.
posted by wierdo at 10:37 AM on May 16, 2021
As a kid, I certainly bumbled through many patches of poison ivy and poison oak without having any reaction whatsoever. My friends were not so lucky.
Mosquitos and some other biting insects, on the other hand, favor me over others and can cause some pretty gnarly reactions if I get really swarmed. Every single bite would leave a large welt that lasted for like a week. Thankfully, that reaction has decreased as I've gotten older, but they still swarm me selectively.
posted by wierdo at 10:37 AM on May 16, 2021
I'm super allergic. as a kid on a campout, i went out and took a big ass leak. the best i can figure is someone was burning it in one of the many nearby campfires (boy scouts, natch). this was central VA where poison ivy vines can be inches thick and woody, growing up tree trunks. dried out, looks like any other branch. got on my skin, mouth, throat, eyes, and junk. it is possible to be hospitalized for poison ivy. the md at first thought i had a vicious std cause my junk was so blistered. i was not sexually active as a 12yo nerd. /horrific youth experience
posted by j_curiouser at 12:11 PM on May 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by j_curiouser at 12:11 PM on May 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
I also had blistered day camp poison ivy junk as a Connecticut 9-year-old and it was just absolutely awful. I try to be careful with the poison oak here in CA as a result. In Poland I think stinging nettle is the equivalent thing? It hurts like hell very quickly but passes after a short time. One of my cousins is immune.
posted by migurski at 12:16 PM on May 16, 2021
posted by migurski at 12:16 PM on May 16, 2021
And people keep trying to get me to go outside....
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:42 PM on May 16, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:42 PM on May 16, 2021 [6 favorites]
the best i can figure is someone was burning it in one of the many nearby campfires
Holy shit, that’s a stupendously stupid thing to do. The toxin can become airborne when the plant is burned and, well, imagine poison ivy in your lungs.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:48 PM on May 16, 2021
Holy shit, that’s a stupendously stupid thing to do. The toxin can become airborne when the plant is burned and, well, imagine poison ivy in your lungs.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:48 PM on May 16, 2021
A few summers ago I spent two weeks in an arts’ residency in Sweden. It was in a high school that was for kids that wanted to learn about nature, both through science and more hands-on living amidst wild nature.
The principal of the school took us out on a day trip and taught us about, among other things, how to strip the poisonous layer off poison ivy using our bare hands without getting hurt, making the fibers into rope, and how to make poison ivy soup (which is delicious). I somehow made it through that day with most of my fingers intact.
The next time I saw a patch of poison ivy, I thought about stripping the outer layer off using my bare hands, but then I thought that if I get the movement wrong or forget a crucial detail, I will be in a world of pain.
That’s when I realized that outdoor living, as opposed to day tripping, wasn’t for me.
posted by Kattullus at 3:08 PM on May 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
The principal of the school took us out on a day trip and taught us about, among other things, how to strip the poisonous layer off poison ivy using our bare hands without getting hurt, making the fibers into rope, and how to make poison ivy soup (which is delicious). I somehow made it through that day with most of my fingers intact.
The next time I saw a patch of poison ivy, I thought about stripping the outer layer off using my bare hands, but then I thought that if I get the movement wrong or forget a crucial detail, I will be in a world of pain.
That’s when I realized that outdoor living, as opposed to day tripping, wasn’t for me.
posted by Kattullus at 3:08 PM on May 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
I have such a negative association with poison ivy, Kattullus, that I'm reading your story and thinking "are you sure that wasn't nettles?" (With zero disrespect intended; I'm sure you remember it correctly and this is me being "whaaat? nooo!") Because nettles have some beneficial aspects but poison ivy, oof.
posted by Lexica at 3:43 PM on May 16, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by Lexica at 3:43 PM on May 16, 2021 [6 favorites]
I had 100% body covering rash when i was a kid in ct after years of running around the woods there without incident. It was miserable. I have been fortunate since to live in wrstern wa, where we do have poison oak but not ivy, at lesst none i've encountered.
Nettles are bad enough for me, and those are everywhere here.
posted by maxwelton at 4:35 PM on May 16, 2021
Nettles are bad enough for me, and those are everywhere here.
posted by maxwelton at 4:35 PM on May 16, 2021
I would gladly walk through nettle patches barefoot if that were to somehow immunize me against poison ivy.
Also, one of my reasons for not getting a dog is how overrun our local woods are with the stuff.
posted by tigrrrlily at 4:43 PM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
Also, one of my reasons for not getting a dog is how overrun our local woods are with the stuff.
posted by tigrrrlily at 4:43 PM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
…taught us about, among other things, how to strip the poisonous layer off poison ivy using our bare hands without getting hurt…
Are you sure this wasn't stinging nettle? The toxin on poison ivy is an oil that's on the surface of the entire plant. There's no way to strip it off with your hands. Also, poison ivy doesn't grow in Sweden. Stinging nettle, on the other hand, causes harm by a layer of tiny sharp needles that grow out of the surface of the leaves, and presumably could be physically removed somehow. They definitely DO grow in Sweden, and I can confirm they are super delicious! Cooking them destroys the ability for the needles to hurt you.
posted by WaylandSmith at 4:50 PM on May 16, 2021 [6 favorites]
Are you sure this wasn't stinging nettle? The toxin on poison ivy is an oil that's on the surface of the entire plant. There's no way to strip it off with your hands. Also, poison ivy doesn't grow in Sweden. Stinging nettle, on the other hand, causes harm by a layer of tiny sharp needles that grow out of the surface of the leaves, and presumably could be physically removed somehow. They definitely DO grow in Sweden, and I can confirm they are super delicious! Cooking them destroys the ability for the needles to hurt you.
posted by WaylandSmith at 4:50 PM on May 16, 2021 [6 favorites]
Stinging nettles can't sting if you grasp them firmly and quickly, but if you brush against the leaves, the little needles emit the "venom". Stinging nettle soup is indeed quite delicious.
posted by monotreme at 5:36 PM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by monotreme at 5:36 PM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
An old guy I knew in Virginia, a lifelong farmer, said that he would eat a leaf of poison ivy every spring, and thereafter he would be immune for the whole season. I'm guessing he was simply not allergic. Never tried it myself.
Meanwhile, a rogue nettle has taken root in one of the pots on my balcony. I've got to get gloved up, harvest and eat the bastard.
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:14 PM on May 16, 2021
Meanwhile, a rogue nettle has taken root in one of the pots on my balcony. I've got to get gloved up, harvest and eat the bastard.
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:14 PM on May 16, 2021
The next time I saw a patch of poison ivy, I thought about stripping the outer layer off using my bare hands, but then I thought that if I get the movement wrong or forget a crucial detail, I will be in a world of pain.
This is stinging nettle, an entirely different plant with an entirely different mechanism for causing pain. It stings on contact due to tiny hairs which contain histamine, serotonin, and acetylcholine. These chemicals can be inactivated by cooking or soaking in water.
Poison oak and ivy do not sting on contact- they cause a severe rash due to the urishiol in the leaves, stems and roots. It cannot be stripped away (even bare branches are contain it) and you never, ever, ever want to ingest or even breathe smoke or steam from poison oak or ivy.
posted by oneirodynia at 7:24 PM on May 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
This is stinging nettle, an entirely different plant with an entirely different mechanism for causing pain. It stings on contact due to tiny hairs which contain histamine, serotonin, and acetylcholine. These chemicals can be inactivated by cooking or soaking in water.
Poison oak and ivy do not sting on contact- they cause a severe rash due to the urishiol in the leaves, stems and roots. It cannot be stripped away (even bare branches are contain it) and you never, ever, ever want to ingest or even breathe smoke or steam from poison oak or ivy.
posted by oneirodynia at 7:24 PM on May 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
There are some goat farms in eastern Mass. that rent out their herds to clear areas of weeds, in particular, poison ivy. A couple of years ago, Boston rented a herd to get an overgrown "urban wild" along the Neponset River in Hyde Park ready for paths and stuff, just a few blocks away from us, and it was most cool going down and watching them contentedly munching away, in an area surrounded by a slightly electrified fence (mainly to keep them in, but signs warned against trying to pet them because their skin might be coated in the oil). Word spread, and a couple years later, Harvard's Arnold Arboretum rented some goats for the same purpose. The problem there was that people would let their dogs run free and one particularly large dog jumped one of the fences and mauled one of the goats.
posted by adamg at 7:45 PM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by adamg at 7:45 PM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
I used to get terrible rashes and blisters, even between my fingers (!) when I was a nature boy in the Ozarks. That was fifty years ago. Recently, thinking I had become immune to the evil plant's poison, I purposely rubbed leaves (OK, maybe a little gently) on my forearm and was not affected. Can one build up a tolerance to urushiol? Maybe decades of avoiding it assiduously has something to do with this.
posted by kozad at 8:25 PM on May 16, 2021
posted by kozad at 8:25 PM on May 16, 2021
Having moved from Kansas City to the west coast 40 years ago, I have been able to avoid it in that time. But I can still remember how badly I reacted to even slight exposure to poison ivy. Fuck this plant. I did, however, learn to spot it pretty darn well. "Three leaves, mitten shape". I see that shape, and avoid, regardless of the number of leaves.
posted by Windopaene at 9:39 PM on May 16, 2021
posted by Windopaene at 9:39 PM on May 16, 2021
Yes, having looked up the Swedish name, it was indeed stinging nettles.
Now I’m extra glad I didn’t try it when I saw poison ivy!
posted by Kattullus at 10:03 PM on May 16, 2021 [6 favorites]
Now I’m extra glad I didn’t try it when I saw poison ivy!
posted by Kattullus at 10:03 PM on May 16, 2021 [6 favorites]
As a kid I tromped through a poison ivy patch in bare feet. The resulting misery, it turns out, is not unlike standing on top of a fire ant hill in sandals, which I did (unwittingly, having just moved to the South) as an adult. Talk about being barely able to walk. Swollen feet and skin so tender you feel you've suffered nature's version of bastinado. In addition to these experiences, I am also well acquainted with hives, which in one memorable attack, turned up on the bottoms of my feet (caused I think by new shoes). The feet are full of nerves, so itch and pain there are maddening. You can be very sure that I now assiduously avoid anything resembling poison ivy or a fire ant hill. Or shoes made of certain materials.
As for stinging nettles, I encountered these in Austria. They did indeed sting, but were mild compared to all of the above. They were positively friendly and polite, by comparison. The welts did not linger. Ant stings/poison ivy, on the other hand...
posted by Armed Only With Hubris at 2:32 AM on May 17, 2021
As for stinging nettles, I encountered these in Austria. They did indeed sting, but were mild compared to all of the above. They were positively friendly and polite, by comparison. The welts did not linger. Ant stings/poison ivy, on the other hand...
posted by Armed Only With Hubris at 2:32 AM on May 17, 2021
The problem there was that people would let their dogs run free and one particularly large dog jumped one of the fences and mauled one of the goats.
Expecting a few goats to be eaten by predators is part of owning goats.
Also lots of the things that are defined as 'special' about poison ivy are basically true of many different kinds of vines - like growing a thick trunk or appearing in different forms. Also it's value as erosion control is double sided - if it grows a large enough mat, then the hill it's protecting becomes more likely to be destroyed to get rid of it.
Also it's terribleness leads to more chemical spraying because it's such a pain to get rid of.
It's like reading about mosquitoes - sure they probably do a bit of good, but they are mostly terrible.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:57 AM on May 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
Expecting a few goats to be eaten by predators is part of owning goats.
Also lots of the things that are defined as 'special' about poison ivy are basically true of many different kinds of vines - like growing a thick trunk or appearing in different forms. Also it's value as erosion control is double sided - if it grows a large enough mat, then the hill it's protecting becomes more likely to be destroyed to get rid of it.
Also it's terribleness leads to more chemical spraying because it's such a pain to get rid of.
It's like reading about mosquitoes - sure they probably do a bit of good, but they are mostly terrible.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:57 AM on May 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
Add my name to the ranks of the highly-allergic. I was an outdoorsy little kid, and I got a handful of cases of the stuff that defied belief... think "multiple courses of systemic steroids, and a hospitalization"-level allergic.
(WARNING: GROSS BODY HORROR AHEAD)
The blistered face, neck, and genitals were godawful enough, but the part that still amazes me is how those damned blisters would sometimes coalesce to form Super Blisters, which looked and felt like second-degree burns. I could never figure out where or when it was going to happen, but the most memorable of those things formed on the skin between my index and middle finger when I was ten years old. That skin, it turns out, is EXTREMELY elastic, and my panicked immune system just kept pumping histamine and fluid to the affected spot, and so the blister kept growing. By day 3, it was the size of a golf ball, and forced the two fingers into position splayed as far apart as the joints would go. I slept with my hand wrapped completely in gauze, both to dull the pain of jostling it and to keep from accidentally bursting it and having it go septic. When I finally went to the doctor for it, he kind of rolled his eyes at what he no doubt thought was my overly-dramatic description of it, but wasn't nobody skeptical after I unwrapped that hand to show him the comically large and pressurized monstrosity. I don't think they have a practicum for that kind of thing in pediatrician residency, because he didn't really seem to have a plan for what to do with it... he eventually settled on using a wide-gauge needly and syringe to lance and drain the thing. Unfortunately he underestimated just how many PSI you need to inflate a blister to that size, so when he punctured it with the needle, a thin geyser of clear fluid came fountaining out of it impressively, striking the surprised doc in the middle of his forehead.
In conclusion, poison ivy, much like its cousin the wasp, is nature's reminder that some things occupy the ecological niche of "just pure fucking evil."
posted by Mayor West at 9:30 AM on May 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
(WARNING: GROSS BODY HORROR AHEAD)
The blistered face, neck, and genitals were godawful enough, but the part that still amazes me is how those damned blisters would sometimes coalesce to form Super Blisters, which looked and felt like second-degree burns. I could never figure out where or when it was going to happen, but the most memorable of those things formed on the skin between my index and middle finger when I was ten years old. That skin, it turns out, is EXTREMELY elastic, and my panicked immune system just kept pumping histamine and fluid to the affected spot, and so the blister kept growing. By day 3, it was the size of a golf ball, and forced the two fingers into position splayed as far apart as the joints would go. I slept with my hand wrapped completely in gauze, both to dull the pain of jostling it and to keep from accidentally bursting it and having it go septic. When I finally went to the doctor for it, he kind of rolled his eyes at what he no doubt thought was my overly-dramatic description of it, but wasn't nobody skeptical after I unwrapped that hand to show him the comically large and pressurized monstrosity. I don't think they have a practicum for that kind of thing in pediatrician residency, because he didn't really seem to have a plan for what to do with it... he eventually settled on using a wide-gauge needly and syringe to lance and drain the thing. Unfortunately he underestimated just how many PSI you need to inflate a blister to that size, so when he punctured it with the needle, a thin geyser of clear fluid came fountaining out of it impressively, striking the surprised doc in the middle of his forehead.
In conclusion, poison ivy, much like its cousin the wasp, is nature's reminder that some things occupy the ecological niche of "just pure fucking evil."
posted by Mayor West at 9:30 AM on May 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
Expecting a few goats to be eaten by predators is part of owning goats.
Having your dog put down if you can’t prevent it from mauling livestock is part of owning dogs.
posted by clew at 2:30 PM on May 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
Having your dog put down if you can’t prevent it from mauling livestock is part of owning dogs.
posted by clew at 2:30 PM on May 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
I’m hospital level allergic to poison ivy, and just yesterday when I was tying honeysuckle back up after the storms, I saw what looked like poison ivy, but with five leaves. I avoided it, because it just looked itchy, but man, if poison ivy can have five leaves and not just three, ima need some goats.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 10:35 PM on May 17, 2021
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 10:35 PM on May 17, 2021
Coda: Poison Ivy Identification Tips. SLYT.
tldr: leaves of three, stay away from me. Longer middle stem, stay away from them.
posted by storybored at 9:21 AM on May 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
tldr: leaves of three, stay away from me. Longer middle stem, stay away from them.
posted by storybored at 9:21 AM on May 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
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