Doctor Who: Russell T Davies returns as showrunner
September 24, 2021 9:54 AM Subscribe
Screenwriter/producer Russell T Davies, who helped revive the sci-fi series Doctor Who in 2005 will return to take over the show again next year.
Davies, who was the fantasy drama's showrunner until 2009, will take over when Chris Chibnall departs next year.
"I'm beyond excited to be back on my favourite show," said Davies, who resumes his role as the show prepares to mark its 60th anniversary in 2023.
One of his first responsibilities will be to decide who takes over the Tardis following Jodie Whittaker's exit.
Davies, who was the fantasy drama's showrunner until 2009, will take over when Chris Chibnall departs next year.
"I'm beyond excited to be back on my favourite show," said Davies, who resumes his role as the show prepares to mark its 60th anniversary in 2023.
One of his first responsibilities will be to decide who takes over the Tardis following Jodie Whittaker's exit.
Fine by me. Despite a couple of great episodes, and loving Jodie Whittaker’s portrayal, Chibnall’s season made me completely lose interest in the show. Too bad Whittaker’s going too; I’d have loved to have seen what she could do with better material.
posted by ejs at 10:15 AM on September 24, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by ejs at 10:15 AM on September 24, 2021 [9 favorites]
Who is a massive moneymaking thing for the BBC in international markets, and Davis's return is probably more to do with the demonstrable fact that he can run the show on time and on budget. On the home front the BBC is getting hammered by a right-wing government who don't want to pay for what they see as a bastion of left-wing thinking, and continually threaten to cut the purse-strings. This makes having income from things like Who pretty important.
posted by The River Ivel at 10:24 AM on September 24, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by The River Ivel at 10:24 AM on September 24, 2021 [11 favorites]
This show really needs fresh blood. They just rehash and rehash and rehash. For a show that claims it's setting as all of time & space they never leave their own little backyard. This news is disappointing to me.
posted by bleep at 10:25 AM on September 24, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by bleep at 10:25 AM on September 24, 2021 [5 favorites]
Pet theory: Doctor Who is renewed through Season 15, and that's when the series will end.
RTD was brought back to gracefully sunset the show, as a new showrunner wouldn't have enough time to establish themselves in the role. Given RTD's writing prowess, he may provide the best chance at untangling the meh-ssy* blob left behind by Chibnall (aka our modern-day Eric Saward).
Also, if this pet theory is true, Jodie's successor will be a bigger name, as this actor may not mind having only two years in such an iconic role.
I don't know of a word that combines "messy" and "meh", so this will have to do.
posted by stannate at 10:25 AM on September 24, 2021 [6 favorites]
RTD was brought back to gracefully sunset the show, as a new showrunner wouldn't have enough time to establish themselves in the role. Given RTD's writing prowess, he may provide the best chance at untangling the meh-ssy* blob left behind by Chibnall (aka our modern-day Eric Saward).
Also, if this pet theory is true, Jodie's successor will be a bigger name, as this actor may not mind having only two years in such an iconic role.
I don't know of a word that combines "messy" and "meh", so this will have to do.
posted by stannate at 10:25 AM on September 24, 2021 [6 favorites]
I am in the minority but I suspect the Chibnall's era will be more fondly remembered in a few years than it is now. Frankly, I have (mostly) enjoyed his time as show runner.
Back on topic, I am a little disappointed that the BBC are retreating to what must seem a safe pair of hands. Doctor Who has been at its best when it takes risks. RTD is a clever writer but I was pretty sick of him by the end of his era. Hopefully he has come up with some new ideas in the last decade.
posted by AndrewStephens at 10:25 AM on September 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
Back on topic, I am a little disappointed that the BBC are retreating to what must seem a safe pair of hands. Doctor Who has been at its best when it takes risks. RTD is a clever writer but I was pretty sick of him by the end of his era. Hopefully he has come up with some new ideas in the last decade.
posted by AndrewStephens at 10:25 AM on September 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
Davies has put a great deal of effort into championing LGBT representation in his career. The show's ratings are not what they were.
Put those two together and I sort of wonder if the BBC, unhappy with the recent ratings of the show, offered to let him have a gay Doctor if he came back and righted the ship.
Or maybe it's just his favorite job. Or they backed up the money truck. I doubt they'd cancel it, even in a few years. But him being brought back to sunset the show is an interesting theory too.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:30 AM on September 24, 2021
Put those two together and I sort of wonder if the BBC, unhappy with the recent ratings of the show, offered to let him have a gay Doctor if he came back and righted the ship.
Or maybe it's just his favorite job. Or they backed up the money truck. I doubt they'd cancel it, even in a few years. But him being brought back to sunset the show is an interesting theory too.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:30 AM on September 24, 2021
I think this is a good idea. A lot of the Moffat episodes under RTD that seemed to imply Moffat was a good writer are, I'm pretty sure now, evidence of RTD's quiet script doctoring. I think Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi were very good, but both would have been better under RTD's writing. To be honest, I was so turned off by Moffat's era that I haven't even seen the Jodie Whittaker episodes past the pilot; whatever Chibnall was doing was too little too late.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:57 AM on September 24, 2021 [17 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:57 AM on September 24, 2021 [17 favorites]
^^^ kittens put into words what I was also thinking about this. Maybe it is to gracefully sunset the show, or maybe it's to revitalize or maybe it's to do something spectacular for the 60th. I'd be happy to just not be so lost in wtf is happening even with the show again.
posted by ApathyGirl at 11:08 AM on September 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by ApathyGirl at 11:08 AM on September 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
Going back to the pints and the pound, and now RTD is back helming Doctor Who.
Why do a new thing when nostalgia is so much better?
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 11:09 AM on September 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
Why do a new thing when nostalgia is so much better?
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 11:09 AM on September 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
That scene at the very end of series four when the Doctor just takes in his entire found family piloting the TARDIS together like it was intended is probably the most earned emotional beat of any show I’ve ever watched. I credit RTD for that moment. It is the peak of the reboot in my opinion, and it was twelve years ago. I’m glad he’s back.
posted by badbobbycase at 11:17 AM on September 24, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by badbobbycase at 11:17 AM on September 24, 2021 [11 favorites]
Human Ten and Rose and they have two tween kids and one of them is named Sarah Jane. I'm putting all my chips down on this square.
posted by greenland at 11:36 AM on September 24, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by greenland at 11:36 AM on September 24, 2021 [10 favorites]
This is going to net me some grumbles and rolled eyes, but as over the top as it was, I loved every second of the River Song saga. River/11 is my favorite part of Nu Who.
That said, Moffat had the same issues with perpetual stakes raising that RTD had, only worse. By the end, he was a mess.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:39 AM on September 24, 2021 [9 favorites]
That said, Moffat had the same issues with perpetual stakes raising that RTD had, only worse. By the end, he was a mess.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:39 AM on September 24, 2021 [9 favorites]
I think Chibnall tried to avoid the over-serialization and perpetual stakes-raising of RTD/Moffat, but, even with a terrific star (and at least one great idea: hidden Doctors!) still failed to find enough to work with to getting people consistently invested and interested.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:43 AM on September 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:43 AM on September 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
A lot of the Moffat episodes under RTD that seemed to imply Moffat was a good writer are, I'm pretty sure now, evidence of RTD's quiet script doctoring
Actually the opposite: RTD was explicit that he didn't rewrite Moffat's scripts, but he did a lot to everybody else's.
I've enjoyed the series a lot more on rewatch - once the pressure is off and you know where it's all going it's a lot easier to kick back and have fun - it's too easy to put to much weight on it that it can't really bear. To my surprise I found that my favouritest of all was the Bill Potts season. Though I've not really managed to get through many episodes after that for the first time, let alone the a rewatch, for purely technical reasons.
I was actually hoping that Kate Herron was going to do it, given she's not going back for season two of Loki, but RTD is probably the only person I can think of who could come back without it seeming like a retread.
posted by Grangousier at 11:48 AM on September 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
Actually the opposite: RTD was explicit that he didn't rewrite Moffat's scripts, but he did a lot to everybody else's.
I've enjoyed the series a lot more on rewatch - once the pressure is off and you know where it's all going it's a lot easier to kick back and have fun - it's too easy to put to much weight on it that it can't really bear. To my surprise I found that my favouritest of all was the Bill Potts season. Though I've not really managed to get through many episodes after that for the first time, let alone the a rewatch, for purely technical reasons.
I was actually hoping that Kate Herron was going to do it, given she's not going back for season two of Loki, but RTD is probably the only person I can think of who could come back without it seeming like a retread.
posted by Grangousier at 11:48 AM on September 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
I really loved Chibber's first season, but I hated the whole "the Doctor was the First Timelord" messianic BS of the second season (though I loved the Mystery Doctor). This is a surprising and mostly welcome development.
posted by rikschell at 12:27 PM on September 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by rikschell at 12:27 PM on September 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
This is going to net me some grumbles and rolled eyes, but as over the top as it was, I loved every second of the River Song saga. River/11 is my favorite part of Nu Who.
I agree. River was easily the most interesting character of NuWho. I loved every timey-wimey aspect of her story.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:35 PM on September 24, 2021 [5 favorites]
I agree. River was easily the most interesting character of NuWho. I loved every timey-wimey aspect of her story.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:35 PM on September 24, 2021 [5 favorites]
(I mean, my next choice would be Mike Schur, since The Good Place was as close to a Douglas Adams show as anyone has done since, um, Douglas Adams, but I'm pretty sure an American writing Doctor Who could start an international incident. I'd also suggest William Jackson Harper as The Doctor, and I'm pretty sure an American Doctor would reignite the Revolutionary War.)
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:54 PM on September 24, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:54 PM on September 24, 2021 [15 favorites]
IMHO new Who has suffered from the start--but it especially accelerated under Moffat--from creating not so much plots as Cool Scenes, which they then try to ad lib their way into and out of. Often with really lazy writing.
It can be entertaining. Moffat could definitely create snappy dialogue and they get charismatic actors to chew some scenery. But I think it's also easy to reach a point where audience members just decide they've had enough. After dipping in and out for a few seasons I gave up completely in the Capaldi era, and I fucking love Capaldi. (I tried picking it up again with Whitaker, and same thing. I liked her but couldn't handle the actual episodes.)
That said, Moffat had the same issues with perpetual stakes raising that RTD had, only worse. By the end, he was a mess.
Exactly. I don't know if RTD will help. Maybe if he decides to hit a big reset button.
posted by mark k at 12:54 PM on September 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
It can be entertaining. Moffat could definitely create snappy dialogue and they get charismatic actors to chew some scenery. But I think it's also easy to reach a point where audience members just decide they've had enough. After dipping in and out for a few seasons I gave up completely in the Capaldi era, and I fucking love Capaldi. (I tried picking it up again with Whitaker, and same thing. I liked her but couldn't handle the actual episodes.)
That said, Moffat had the same issues with perpetual stakes raising that RTD had, only worse. By the end, he was a mess.
Exactly. I don't know if RTD will help. Maybe if he decides to hit a big reset button.
posted by mark k at 12:54 PM on September 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
Piers Wenger, the BBC's director of drama, said the news of Davies' return would "delight Doctor Who fans across the globe".
Has he met any Doctor Who fans?
posted by betweenthebars at 1:32 PM on September 24, 2021 [18 favorites]
Has he met any Doctor Who fans?
posted by betweenthebars at 1:32 PM on September 24, 2021 [18 favorites]
I wonder if they’re bringing Davies back not only to revitalize but to franchise. IIRC, he’s said in the past that he thinks Who should follow the MCU model and develop multiple shows from multiple perspectives with a broad cast of characters.
(If the BBC needs more shows to generate more revenue, it’s not a dumb move. Can’t say the idea is immediately appealing to me as a fan.)
posted by LooseFilter at 2:09 PM on September 24, 2021
(If the BBC needs more shows to generate more revenue, it’s not a dumb move. Can’t say the idea is immediately appealing to me as a fan.)
posted by LooseFilter at 2:09 PM on September 24, 2021
he thinks Who should follow the MCU model and develop multiple shows from multiple perspectives with a broad cast of characters
So for Phase 1, how about:
So for Phase 1, how about:
- "Strike Force: Sevateem"
- "Yes, Castellan"
- "Romana and Romana"
- "Sacred Fire, Sacred Flame"
- "Castrovalva Unbound"
Could have lived very happily without RTD's fatphobia. Even Annette Badland, who is absolutely badass and I adore her, could only barely rescue the Slitheen, and the Adipose were just blatant.
The hardest of hard passes for me on RTD's second chance at this show.
posted by humbug at 3:03 PM on September 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
The hardest of hard passes for me on RTD's second chance at this show.
posted by humbug at 3:03 PM on September 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
Couple thoughts:
Failed Who spinoffs are numerous, actually. But I'd totally watch "Romana and Romana" if they are private detectives like Simon and Simon where one regeneration is fastidious and the other is a mess.
Moffat is brilliant at writing episodes, but he's awful at writing seasons. See any of the other series that he was showrunner on.
I'm also not happy when they center the Doctor as the most important being in the universe, so the timeless child thing was total barf, imo. And it invalidates every sacrifice the Doctor has ever made. If they had put me in charge (which they definitely SHOULD NOT DO) I would have tread more lightly on a 50+ year old canon that is unique in the world.
I really like Jodie Whittaker though. I liked the end of her first ep, when she talked about just being a traveler, that felt like Doctor Who.
They just got the Time Lords back and they blew them up again? Their millions of years old dusty old senate was a great foil for the Doctor's shenanigans and has been sorely used since 2005.
I'd be fine if RTD was tapped to bring the show in for a landing on the 60th anniversary, and then into hiatus again. There are a ton of ways to be creative and bold in the Who universe without retconning the "madman with a box" premise*, and if they can't figure it out then maybe the aquifer is low and the well needs time to recharge.
Or how about, I dunno, the showrunner is a woman? Shocking twist!
(*just to be clear, I'm talking about the timeless child not the woman Doctor in this sentence.)
posted by Horkus at 4:22 PM on September 24, 2021 [6 favorites]
Failed Who spinoffs are numerous, actually. But I'd totally watch "Romana and Romana" if they are private detectives like Simon and Simon where one regeneration is fastidious and the other is a mess.
Moffat is brilliant at writing episodes, but he's awful at writing seasons. See any of the other series that he was showrunner on.
I'm also not happy when they center the Doctor as the most important being in the universe, so the timeless child thing was total barf, imo. And it invalidates every sacrifice the Doctor has ever made. If they had put me in charge (which they definitely SHOULD NOT DO) I would have tread more lightly on a 50+ year old canon that is unique in the world.
I really like Jodie Whittaker though. I liked the end of her first ep, when she talked about just being a traveler, that felt like Doctor Who.
They just got the Time Lords back and they blew them up again? Their millions of years old dusty old senate was a great foil for the Doctor's shenanigans and has been sorely used since 2005.
I'd be fine if RTD was tapped to bring the show in for a landing on the 60th anniversary, and then into hiatus again. There are a ton of ways to be creative and bold in the Who universe without retconning the "madman with a box" premise*, and if they can't figure it out then maybe the aquifer is low and the well needs time to recharge.
Or how about, I dunno, the showrunner is a woman? Shocking twist!
(*just to be clear, I'm talking about the timeless child not the woman Doctor in this sentence.)
posted by Horkus at 4:22 PM on September 24, 2021 [6 favorites]
Yeah, it's totally reasonable to love the secret Doctor concept (and Ruth Doctor in particular) but despise the explanation we got for them existing.
The Mary Herron idea above was so good I can only assume the answer why not is that the Beeb couldn't afford her.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:37 PM on September 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
The Mary Herron idea above was so good I can only assume the answer why not is that the Beeb couldn't afford her.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:37 PM on September 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
IMHO new Who has suffered from the start--but it especially accelerated under Moffat--from creating not so much plots as Cool Scenes, which they then try to ad lib their way into and out of. Often with really lazy writing.
Sounds like somebody didn't enjoy "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship."
posted by deludingmyself at 5:01 PM on September 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
Sounds like somebody didn't enjoy "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship."
posted by deludingmyself at 5:01 PM on September 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
I am a longtime fan of Doctor Who, and this is marvelous news.
Davies did all the work of reviving the show when it came back in 2005, and did four seasons of overall excellent work. Stephen Moffat took over in 2008, and also did fine work. Chris Chibnall took over in 2018 and has, in my opinion, been a disappointment. I love Jodie Whittaker, and there have been some excellent Chibnall episodes, some adequate, but far too many that were simply dumb, meandering cliché collections. I’ve been undecided whether to buy the next season — that’s how bad Chibnall’s era has been.
The return of Russell T Davies is like, well, conservatively speaking, it's like the second coming of Christ.
posted by Doug Holland at 5:18 PM on September 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
Davies did all the work of reviving the show when it came back in 2005, and did four seasons of overall excellent work. Stephen Moffat took over in 2008, and also did fine work. Chris Chibnall took over in 2018 and has, in my opinion, been a disappointment. I love Jodie Whittaker, and there have been some excellent Chibnall episodes, some adequate, but far too many that were simply dumb, meandering cliché collections. I’ve been undecided whether to buy the next season — that’s how bad Chibnall’s era has been.
The return of Russell T Davies is like, well, conservatively speaking, it's like the second coming of Christ.
posted by Doug Holland at 5:18 PM on September 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
If you want endless Doctor Who spin-offs, may I point you at Big Finish? They’ve been creating quality Doctor stories for years. (Their 50th anniversary special is amazing. And their stories with the Eighth Doctor!)
Not wild about the return, RTD as a show runner has a mixed track record at best.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 5:47 PM on September 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
Not wild about the return, RTD as a show runner has a mixed track record at best.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 5:47 PM on September 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm having a hard time imagining what he has left to say with this character? If by showrunner they mean more of an EP of various projects that come in on time and under budget, I am *so there.* If we're going to expect 10 episodes every year-ish that roughly retreads what he did the last time, I'm seriously disappointed.
posted by lownote at 5:51 PM on September 24, 2021
posted by lownote at 5:51 PM on September 24, 2021
Steven Moffat forcibly strangled the Time War into a sensible state after taking over from Davies (to the point where I imagined Davies and Moffat in a knife fight); I wonder if Davies will do the same with the Timeless Child plotline.
posted by BiggerJ at 5:57 PM on September 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by BiggerJ at 5:57 PM on September 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
Also, if the Timeless Child business isn't undone and stannate is right about the show being sunsetted, I hope it all ends with the Doctor realizing that they are both an invasive species and the One True God, come dangerously close to remaking the universe in their image (which they've already been doing since before unhearthly Child by mangling the 'contuinity'), and ultimately decide to leave the universe and alter it to erase all trace of their existence and timeline-mangling influence. The final shot would be the first shot of the original series, altered so that when the cop walks past the junkyard, there's no mysterious police box and no enigmatic electronic hum.
Oh, and speaking of which, the 'final boss' of the show would have to be the TARDIS, who has and ALWAYS been in it for personal gain and stole the Doctor in order to rule alongside them. That would explain why it was so jealous of the cosmic Mary-Sue, Clara.
posted by BiggerJ at 6:04 PM on September 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
Oh, and speaking of which, the 'final boss' of the show would have to be the TARDIS, who has and ALWAYS been in it for personal gain and stole the Doctor in order to rule alongside them. That would explain why it was so jealous of the cosmic Mary-Sue, Clara.
posted by BiggerJ at 6:04 PM on September 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
One of his first responsibilities will be to decide who takes over the Tardis following Jodie Whittaker's exit.
Peter Dinklage or Robert Downey Jr. They could probably lure RDJ in with the promise of a film.
posted by Beholder at 6:38 PM on September 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
Peter Dinklage or Robert Downey Jr. They could probably lure RDJ in with the promise of a film.
posted by Beholder at 6:38 PM on September 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
It ends with The Doctor being stripped of their memories and regenerating into the youth that Tecteun discovered known as the timeless child. Through skillful storytelling, it's unclear whether The Doctor consented or not, letting viewers decide for themselves.
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 6:40 PM on September 24, 2021
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 6:40 PM on September 24, 2021
I hope he and the BBC have their shit together so they aren't making a horrible environment that wards off stars for years or sees others harass one another or cultivate an environment when folks get dicks slung over their shoulders for "fun."
posted by GoblinHoney at 6:46 PM on September 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by GoblinHoney at 6:46 PM on September 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
That's weird, just the other day I was thinking, "The 60th anniversary is coming up, Chibnall's out and they really need a new showrunner who can make Doctor Who good again. Russell T. Davies would probably be the best person for the job, and it seems like he's kind of struggled since he left the show... but it'll never happen." And now it's happening!
There was no choice that was going to please everybody, and while Davies may be about as close as it was gonna get there will be plenty of people screaming bloody murder. I was a big fan of his era but I won't pretend it was perfect. I think he hit higher peaks than Moffat but he was also much less consistent. With Moffat I thought you got a pretty good show almost every week but with Davies you never knew if you were going to get a dud, a so-so episode or a little masterpiece. (I think Chibnall's run has mostly been cringeworthy, despite a fine performance by Jodie Whittaker.) I thought Davies got better as he went, so it's possible we'll see his best work yet. It's also possible he's done everything he can with the show already and the new stuff will be pretty dire. We'll have to wait and see.
I do think we're likely to see the return of Rose Tyler, Human-10, Donna Noble and many other characters from Davies' old run. Hell, he may well bring back people from the original era. I'm all for it, but I recognize it will be torture for the people who think that kind of stuff is pure fan service. I also think that Davies, as a Gen-X queer white guy, will probably infuriate young lefties every week without even trying. I seriously doubt he'll pull a JK Rowling on us, spew a bunch of ugly stuff and then double down on it, but people will be looking for things to complain about and Davies will have plenty of controversies.
I'll be curious to see how he handles the Chibnall BS about the Doctor being the secret origin of the Time Lords and all that. I have a hunch that Davies will not honor it but he also won't want to hate on the last guy. I'm betting it will turn out to be some plot by the Time Lords or somebody else, to throw the Doctor off from the real story. I'm also guessing the next Doctor will be a man and a POC. Or maybe a white guy, so Davies can start his new era with a lot of people already pissed off at him.
I'm a big lefty myself and I'm not trying to start any flamewars, honest. But reading this news makes me simultaneously thrilled at the possibilities for the show and exhausted when I think about the inevitable, constant outrage. If the Chibnall era was a time when conservative fans lost their shit every week, I think we're about to see an era when conservatives and a lot of lefties both despise the show, for very different reasons.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 7:32 PM on September 24, 2021 [5 favorites]
There was no choice that was going to please everybody, and while Davies may be about as close as it was gonna get there will be plenty of people screaming bloody murder. I was a big fan of his era but I won't pretend it was perfect. I think he hit higher peaks than Moffat but he was also much less consistent. With Moffat I thought you got a pretty good show almost every week but with Davies you never knew if you were going to get a dud, a so-so episode or a little masterpiece. (I think Chibnall's run has mostly been cringeworthy, despite a fine performance by Jodie Whittaker.) I thought Davies got better as he went, so it's possible we'll see his best work yet. It's also possible he's done everything he can with the show already and the new stuff will be pretty dire. We'll have to wait and see.
I do think we're likely to see the return of Rose Tyler, Human-10, Donna Noble and many other characters from Davies' old run. Hell, he may well bring back people from the original era. I'm all for it, but I recognize it will be torture for the people who think that kind of stuff is pure fan service. I also think that Davies, as a Gen-X queer white guy, will probably infuriate young lefties every week without even trying. I seriously doubt he'll pull a JK Rowling on us, spew a bunch of ugly stuff and then double down on it, but people will be looking for things to complain about and Davies will have plenty of controversies.
I'll be curious to see how he handles the Chibnall BS about the Doctor being the secret origin of the Time Lords and all that. I have a hunch that Davies will not honor it but he also won't want to hate on the last guy. I'm betting it will turn out to be some plot by the Time Lords or somebody else, to throw the Doctor off from the real story. I'm also guessing the next Doctor will be a man and a POC. Or maybe a white guy, so Davies can start his new era with a lot of people already pissed off at him.
I'm a big lefty myself and I'm not trying to start any flamewars, honest. But reading this news makes me simultaneously thrilled at the possibilities for the show and exhausted when I think about the inevitable, constant outrage. If the Chibnall era was a time when conservative fans lost their shit every week, I think we're about to see an era when conservatives and a lot of lefties both despise the show, for very different reasons.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 7:32 PM on September 24, 2021 [5 favorites]
This is the only show that out-simpsons the simpsons in terms of needing to be put out of its misery
posted by moorooka at 7:43 PM on September 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by moorooka at 7:43 PM on September 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
Amen, GoblinHoney. He may play Jack, but I'll always think of him as Captain Dick. Not cool.
Also disappointed with JW. I was so excited to hear she was cast. Having now seen her, all I can say is, welp, playing the Doctor as Philomena Cunk is not the choice I would have made.
RTD's selection suggests they couldn't afford their first choice, or nobody else wanted the aggravation. I have heard that BBC management legendarily hates its viewers and takes great joy in having its shows ham-handedly hector them; don't know how true that is, but recent Who really gave me that impression.
One rumor I heard about the Timeless Retcon is that it will beVictoria Principal's bad dream just-regenerated 13 falling out of her Tardis into an alternate universe a la Inferno, unveiling a MCU-like multiverse. 13's end will be the end of the orignal Doctor and programme, and 14 will be Dr 1 in a rebooted show in a different reality and relieved of the burden of all past continuity.
My own two pence as to the next Doctor:
* Miranda Hart. Because she would be such fun. And, she's childlike, whimsical and tall enough to bring Tom Baker's scarf out of storage and make it rock. Only plushie Daleks and Cybermen, though. And potatoes in little spacesuits for companions. (Joking aside, I do sincerely like Miranda as the Doctor)
* Aisling Bea. Because a lot of planets have an Ireland. And she looks like Troughton, has attack eyebrows like Capaldi, and can play loud, manic and unstable like C Baker.
* American? Not likely but.. Ken Jeong. It was the role he wasborn hatched and incubated too long under a lava lamp for.
posted by zaixfeep at 8:09 PM on September 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
Also disappointed with JW. I was so excited to hear she was cast. Having now seen her, all I can say is, welp, playing the Doctor as Philomena Cunk is not the choice I would have made.
RTD's selection suggests they couldn't afford their first choice, or nobody else wanted the aggravation. I have heard that BBC management legendarily hates its viewers and takes great joy in having its shows ham-handedly hector them; don't know how true that is, but recent Who really gave me that impression.
One rumor I heard about the Timeless Retcon is that it will be
My own two pence as to the next Doctor:
* Miranda Hart. Because she would be such fun. And, she's childlike, whimsical and tall enough to bring Tom Baker's scarf out of storage and make it rock. Only plushie Daleks and Cybermen, though. And potatoes in little spacesuits for companions. (Joking aside, I do sincerely like Miranda as the Doctor)
* Aisling Bea. Because a lot of planets have an Ireland. And she looks like Troughton, has attack eyebrows like Capaldi, and can play loud, manic and unstable like C Baker.
* American? Not likely but.. Ken Jeong. It was the role he was
posted by zaixfeep at 8:09 PM on September 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
In longstanding Doctor Who tradition, they could always just Never Mention It Again (anyone remember "half-human on my mother's side?" No? Anyone?)
posted by rikschell at 8:43 PM on September 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 8:43 PM on September 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
Re: the contradiction concerning the Time Vortex being able to create Time Lords - if the Timeless Child thing isn't retconned, it'll be the perfect thing for Big Finish to deal with after Thirteen pukes orange and they get the license to use her story elements (the same happened with Twelve after they were genuinely unsure whether the BBC would sit on that request for years and years like with the new series license). After all, the Expanded Universe says that the Time Lords created the Time Vortex. All the Time Lords' powers ultimately came from the Timeless Child. Ergo, the Time Vortex is the Doctor's illegitimate test-tube baby and basically I want a Doctor vs Time Vortex fight.
rikschell: They DID mention it again, when Me suggested that the Doctor was the msyterious Hybrid because he's half-human. The look on the Doctors face spoke volumes. Volumes of the same phrase over and over: "I thought we'd agreed to never speak of that again."
posted by BiggerJ at 11:13 PM on September 24, 2021
rikschell: They DID mention it again, when Me suggested that the Doctor was the msyterious Hybrid because he's half-human. The look on the Doctors face spoke volumes. Volumes of the same phrase over and over: "I thought we'd agreed to never speak of that again."
posted by BiggerJ at 11:13 PM on September 24, 2021
With Moffat I thought you got a pretty good show almost every week but with Davies you never knew if you were going to get a dud, a so-so episode or a little masterpiece.
One thing I was surprised by on the rewatch was that, while I expected just that, it turned out to be the other way round - With RTD, the episodes that were enraging at the time (and we all have our own lists of those, I think) were fine little deviations when I viewed them as part of a whole and the ones that I remembered as nothingburgers turned out to be full of cool little things, and I don't think he really put a foot badly wrong for a long time. Whereas with The Moff, the ones I remembered as great were still great (in the case of something like Heaven Sent/Hell Bent even more than I remembered), but there were quite a few that were... unnecessary, really. My theory is that the difference is that while their personas suggest the opposite, RTD is the one with a greater sense of discipline, Moffat the more, uh, gestural writer, who could often have quite startling ideas that didn't quite work in execution.
On the other hand, RTD considers himself very good at making up characters, but Moffatt turned out to be much better (for me, anyway) at whipping up a character out of a few lines and notable details, that an actor can turn into someone you immediately recognise.
Like I said, the season that surprised me as being the most consistently good* was the last one. The only real glitch for me was that The Eaters of Light was obviously designed to be earlier in the season, but was required there partly because the heavinesses of The Lie of the Land and World Enough and Time needed a buffer of more than one episode between them, partly because the continuity Missy stuff needed to go somewhere, but really they needed one more episode.
Anyway, any rewatch gets a couple of episodes into series 11 and grinds to a halt. It just spoils everything.
The Mary Herron idea above was so good I can only assume the answer why not is that the Beeb couldn't afford her.
Oddly, the reason I thought Kate Herron was in with a chance was that though Loki is obviously brilliant, obviously Who and seems to have been largely shaped by Herron as showrunner, she's young enough in her career that the BBC could afford her. I suppose what I was really hoping for in general was someone who'd grown up with nu-Who rather than Classic Who, who was full of ideas and who I'd never heard of. Same thing for the Doctor actor.
Mary Harron would also be an interesting, though perhaps left-field, choice.
(Sorry, not mocking, I do that sort of thing all the time - I just like the way typos introduce concepts that one wouldn't ordinarily have thought of. Can you imagine? Dr Who by the woman who brought the world I Shot Andy Warhol and American Psycho!)
*I hate using words like "good" and "bad" - they really don't help - but I'm using it here as a variable to contain notions of imagination, confidence and flair in writing and characterisation.
posted by Grangousier at 2:55 AM on September 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
One thing I was surprised by on the rewatch was that, while I expected just that, it turned out to be the other way round - With RTD, the episodes that were enraging at the time (and we all have our own lists of those, I think) were fine little deviations when I viewed them as part of a whole and the ones that I remembered as nothingburgers turned out to be full of cool little things, and I don't think he really put a foot badly wrong for a long time. Whereas with The Moff, the ones I remembered as great were still great (in the case of something like Heaven Sent/Hell Bent even more than I remembered), but there were quite a few that were... unnecessary, really. My theory is that the difference is that while their personas suggest the opposite, RTD is the one with a greater sense of discipline, Moffat the more, uh, gestural writer, who could often have quite startling ideas that didn't quite work in execution.
On the other hand, RTD considers himself very good at making up characters, but Moffatt turned out to be much better (for me, anyway) at whipping up a character out of a few lines and notable details, that an actor can turn into someone you immediately recognise.
Like I said, the season that surprised me as being the most consistently good* was the last one. The only real glitch for me was that The Eaters of Light was obviously designed to be earlier in the season, but was required there partly because the heavinesses of The Lie of the Land and World Enough and Time needed a buffer of more than one episode between them, partly because the continuity Missy stuff needed to go somewhere, but really they needed one more episode.
Anyway, any rewatch gets a couple of episodes into series 11 and grinds to a halt. It just spoils everything.
The Mary Herron idea above was so good I can only assume the answer why not is that the Beeb couldn't afford her.
Oddly, the reason I thought Kate Herron was in with a chance was that though Loki is obviously brilliant, obviously Who and seems to have been largely shaped by Herron as showrunner, she's young enough in her career that the BBC could afford her. I suppose what I was really hoping for in general was someone who'd grown up with nu-Who rather than Classic Who, who was full of ideas and who I'd never heard of. Same thing for the Doctor actor.
Mary Harron would also be an interesting, though perhaps left-field, choice.
(Sorry, not mocking, I do that sort of thing all the time - I just like the way typos introduce concepts that one wouldn't ordinarily have thought of. Can you imagine? Dr Who by the woman who brought the world I Shot Andy Warhol and American Psycho!)
*I hate using words like "good" and "bad" - they really don't help - but I'm using it here as a variable to contain notions of imagination, confidence and flair in writing and characterisation.
posted by Grangousier at 2:55 AM on September 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
Russell T Davies has been on a rare run of form in the last few years - It’s a Sin, Years and Years, A Very English Scandal were all great in lots of different ways. Since the traumatic death of his husband he seems to be well back in his groove.
It gives me some hope because Chibnall is just a really boring and generic story writer, RTD at his camp nonsense worst was at least buzzing with ideas and having fun.
Which It’s A Sin actor is getting doctored though is probably the question we should be asking - Olly Alexander is probably the BBC friendly obvious choice but Lydia West would be great.
posted by brilliantmistake at 4:23 AM on September 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
It gives me some hope because Chibnall is just a really boring and generic story writer, RTD at his camp nonsense worst was at least buzzing with ideas and having fun.
Which It’s A Sin actor is getting doctored though is probably the question we should be asking - Olly Alexander is probably the BBC friendly obvious choice but Lydia West would be great.
posted by brilliantmistake at 4:23 AM on September 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
I think he's already said Olly Alexander, FWIW, though that wasn't ex cathedra.
posted by Grangousier at 4:58 AM on September 25, 2021
posted by Grangousier at 4:58 AM on September 25, 2021
I wonder if RTD is considering his return to Who as his chance to get back to writing breezier, fun-for-the-whole-family stuff, as he, IIRC, more or less described the job the first time around. Or maybe, after watching Moffat and Chibnall try some darker stuff, and skewing that way himself on stuff like Years and Years, if he might try a different approach this time around.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:50 AM on September 25, 2021
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:50 AM on September 25, 2021
zaixfeep:
Also disappointed with JW. I was so excited to hear she was cast. Having now seen her, all I can say is, welp, playing the Doctor as Philomena Cunk is not the choice I would have made.
Philomena Cunk's Moments of Wonder Ep 1: Time [YT link]
posted by indexy at 8:53 AM on September 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
Also disappointed with JW. I was so excited to hear she was cast. Having now seen her, all I can say is, welp, playing the Doctor as Philomena Cunk is not the choice I would have made.
Philomena Cunk's Moments of Wonder Ep 1: Time [YT link]
posted by indexy at 8:53 AM on September 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
Honestly, I felt Davies and Moffat worked best together. While Davies can orchestrate a compelling season arc, he turns out some real clunkers along the way. Meanwhile, Moffat can reliably turn out the two-parter people will be talking about for years, but his ability to bring the whole battleship into port left a lot to be desired. Keep them both on the payroll and let them do what they are proven to do best.
posted by gelfin at 9:32 AM on September 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by gelfin at 9:32 AM on September 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
I've read a bit about the Eccleston falling out. Or, at least part of it. The guy who played Jack Harkness liked to wonder around harrassing the cast and crew and showing everyone his dick . Eccleston objected and they did nothing about it.
posted by pan at 10:21 AM on September 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by pan at 10:21 AM on September 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
Interestingly, after the first Jodie Whittaker story, my daughter and I had exactly the same reaction: Sharon D Clarke (who played Grace) should have been the new Doctor! Nevertheless, I was excited for a woman to portray the Doctor. The concept had been around a long time (since Peter Davison's era I think). But, good golly, were the new scripts bad! It was like nothing ever gelled or made sense. I'm really hoping for a return to form. Maybe someone will see this and give the role to Sharon D Clarke!
posted by jabah at 1:55 PM on September 25, 2021
posted by jabah at 1:55 PM on September 25, 2021
Here's an out of left field idea: what if Jodie Whitaker "remains the Doctor" but gets to leave the show for the time being, and we follow the Ruth Doctor and/or some of the other hidden Doctors for a while and then get back to Jodie later for a big multi-Doctor sendoff?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:47 PM on September 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:47 PM on September 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
Re: Eccleston leaving after 1 Season...
I have read that Barrowman constantly took his junk out on the Who set but not that Eccleston's decision had anything to do with that. Eccleston himself is on record as saying that his relationship with RTD and the producers went south.
posted by Saxon Kane at 3:57 PM on September 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
I have read that Barrowman constantly took his junk out on the Who set but not that Eccleston's decision had anything to do with that. Eccleston himself is on record as saying that his relationship with RTD and the producers went south.
posted by Saxon Kane at 3:57 PM on September 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
I’ve just finished watching Season 12, and unlike some of you I have loved much of the Nu Who in an uncritical kind of why. But— my word— is the Chris Chibnall era terrible. Some great actors in there, but the plotting and writing is just awful.
posted by frumiousb at 4:22 PM on September 25, 2021
posted by frumiousb at 4:22 PM on September 25, 2021
>I've never found a good explanation about what happened to make Christopher Eccleston swear off not only RTD but the BBC as a whole during the first season of the reboot.
He said, last year while promoting a book he wrote about his time caring for his father's end-of-life dementia, that he wasn't well and was going through extreme depression plus anorexia/bulimia while also in that setting and he later got help.
Trigger Warning: Interview at the Guardian.
posted by k3ninho at 4:52 PM on September 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
He said, last year while promoting a book he wrote about his time caring for his father's end-of-life dementia, that he wasn't well and was going through extreme depression plus anorexia/bulimia while also in that setting and he later got help.
Trigger Warning: Interview at the Guardian.
posted by k3ninho at 4:52 PM on September 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm all for moving forward, but they weren't going to give the 60th Anniversary to just anyone and Chibnall was conspicuously bowing out before that historical milestone. And as has been suggested, I think RTD will act more as a franchise operator - like Kevin Feige at Marvel - while also resetting Doctor Who again. I think he needs to clean away the cruft of the past few seasons and reboot the franchise like he did with his first episode in 2005.
I'm hoping he's smart enough to hand over the reins of Doctor Who itself to another showrunner after a year or two and then just be the puppetmaster of the franchise. He had two spin-offs running back when he was running Doctor Who, so I can imagine him doing that again.
posted by crossoverman at 1:53 AM on September 26, 2021
I'm hoping he's smart enough to hand over the reins of Doctor Who itself to another showrunner after a year or two and then just be the puppetmaster of the franchise. He had two spin-offs running back when he was running Doctor Who, so I can imagine him doing that again.
posted by crossoverman at 1:53 AM on September 26, 2021
they never leave their own little backyard
It's interesting to read you say that about the plot, because I wonder if that's also the case with the writers/crew/etc, and that's what's come round to bite them in the ass.
I'm not big into Who, last watched regularly in the Tennant era, but I was at a writer's conference where Steven Moffat was interviewed just before he stepped down from the role, and he was practically bragging about how great it was to be in a position to indulge out and out nepotism when choosing who to bring onto the show. Kind of "Well, I mean, there's got to be some advantages to having a job like this, hasn't there, I don't mind saying it, we go 'Yeah! Let's employ so-and-so!"
I don't think he was talking about his wife (Sue Vertue, who's produced some Who episodes), but someone else who they'd thought "Oh, how exciting, we can work with this old friend/family member, give them the job!"
Which I'm sure goes on all over the entertainment industry, people want to work with people they already know and love. But if the show's been getting stale, maybe that's because they've relied too heavily on bringing people who are just like themselves again and again, instead of going out there to find people who are really different and can take the show off in fresh directions.
posted by penguin pie at 3:33 PM on September 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
It's interesting to read you say that about the plot, because I wonder if that's also the case with the writers/crew/etc, and that's what's come round to bite them in the ass.
I'm not big into Who, last watched regularly in the Tennant era, but I was at a writer's conference where Steven Moffat was interviewed just before he stepped down from the role, and he was practically bragging about how great it was to be in a position to indulge out and out nepotism when choosing who to bring onto the show. Kind of "Well, I mean, there's got to be some advantages to having a job like this, hasn't there, I don't mind saying it, we go 'Yeah! Let's employ so-and-so!"
I don't think he was talking about his wife (Sue Vertue, who's produced some Who episodes), but someone else who they'd thought "Oh, how exciting, we can work with this old friend/family member, give them the job!"
Which I'm sure goes on all over the entertainment industry, people want to work with people they already know and love. But if the show's been getting stale, maybe that's because they've relied too heavily on bringing people who are just like themselves again and again, instead of going out there to find people who are really different and can take the show off in fresh directions.
posted by penguin pie at 3:33 PM on September 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
Russell T Davies gave a fiery speech condemning those who would leave the "T" out of LGBTQIA. I hadn't realized that the ongoing TERF problem with Brit celebs had made me so flinchy... I saw a few of the keywords and braced myself for the worst, but nope, RTD is on the side of the angels on this one.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:33 AM on October 14, 2021
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:33 AM on October 14, 2021
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I've never found a good explanation about what happened to make Christopher Eccleston swear off not only RTD but the BBC as a whole during the first season of the reboot and it makes me suspect of the whole thing.
posted by Dr. Twist at 10:07 AM on September 24, 2021 [11 favorites]