Good to see you!
December 28, 2021 11:33 AM Subscribe
An American idiom speaks to the thrill of seeing and being seen in the age of social distancing. "In true American fashion, Good to see you! can express both something sincere and something casual. Americans use it in conversation with close friends just as often as with people they’re seeing for only the second or third time.
In my early years in the States, I found this type of social ambiguity frustrating. It meant I never quite knew where I stood with people: Did they really care or were they just being polite? In my native Finnish, words of affirmation are reserved for true friends, or ystävät, not acquaintances, or tuttavat. Finns don’t throw around emotionally loaded words in small talk — ever. Yet in America, the line is blurred. The cashier will call me “darling,” and the barber will say I’m his brother."
I used the "reader mode" of my browser (Firefox) and it appeared to show the entire article.
posted by meowzilla at 12:30 PM on December 28, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by meowzilla at 12:30 PM on December 28, 2021 [4 favorites]
Suggestion: on a lot of paywalls, even when "frozen", if you select-all, copy, and paste the raw text into an empty textfile, you can still read the article, with a lot of junk text before and after, accounting for menus, that you can skip over.
On preview: the above suggestion is better!
posted by not_on_display at 12:30 PM on December 28, 2021 [4 favorites]
On preview: the above suggestion is better!
posted by not_on_display at 12:30 PM on December 28, 2021 [4 favorites]
I use 'good to see you' to avoid saying 'nice to meet you' to someone I've already met.
posted by box at 12:31 PM on December 28, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by box at 12:31 PM on December 28, 2021 [14 favorites]
FPP link is a Twitter URL. Here's the actual destination: https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/12/28/opinion/good-see-you/
There's a X Close button on that box that pops up for me. No issues reading the article.
posted by emelenjr at 12:44 PM on December 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
There's a X Close button on that box that pops up for me. No issues reading the article.
posted by emelenjr at 12:44 PM on December 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
as someone who hates "how's it goin?" or "how are you?" as a greeting (whether for the first time or the hundredth) I applaud "good to see you" as their all purpose replacement.
Because the former two (whether intended or not) are asking for an answer, and an oft complicated one at that (if one is to be honest), whereas the latter is merely, pleasantly acknowledging my presence.
posted by philip-random at 12:55 PM on December 28, 2021 [5 favorites]
Because the former two (whether intended or not) are asking for an answer, and an oft complicated one at that (if one is to be honest), whereas the latter is merely, pleasantly acknowledging my presence.
posted by philip-random at 12:55 PM on December 28, 2021 [5 favorites]
In my (American) experience, so are the first two for most people - they're just a congenial noise people make when meeting each other.
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:12 PM on December 28, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:12 PM on December 28, 2021 [8 favorites]
i.e. none of the three are intended to solicit any further answer from the other person than a corresponding genial noise. (including "Fine, thanks" even if the person is not fine)
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:14 PM on December 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:14 PM on December 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
Thanks all!
Good to see you.
The expression has another meaning, from my political consulting days:
"Hi! I'm almost certain we've met before. If I give you this nebulous icebreaking greeting at a networking event, you will extend your arm to shake hands. Then we will be able to face one another and read each other's name tags, thereby avoiding any name-forgetting awkwardness."
posted by champers at 1:19 PM on December 28, 2021 [23 favorites]
Good to see you.
The expression has another meaning, from my political consulting days:
"Hi! I'm almost certain we've met before. If I give you this nebulous icebreaking greeting at a networking event, you will extend your arm to shake hands. Then we will be able to face one another and read each other's name tags, thereby avoiding any name-forgetting awkwardness."
posted by champers at 1:19 PM on December 28, 2021 [23 favorites]
Yeah no further answer other than "Good, you?" or "Things could be better, how are you?" are necessary (nor generally wanted!), though I realize not everyone inherently knows that and some neuro-diverse people in particular find those greetings fraught.
posted by cooker girl at 1:21 PM on December 28, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by cooker girl at 1:21 PM on December 28, 2021 [4 favorites]
I wondered what the usual greeting is in Finland, and in searching came across this article by the Finland Promotion Board which covers conversation generally:
I'm sure we have some MF members from Finland and it would be good to have their take on the article.
posted by paduasoy at 1:27 PM on December 28, 2021 [13 favorites]
it is fair to say that Finns have a special attitude to words and speech: words are taken seriously, and people are held to what they say ... Visitors should remember that invitations or wishes expressed in a light conversational manner (such as: “We must have lunch together sometime”) are often taken at face value, and forgetting them can cause concern.I also liked this:
it is felt appropriate that the use of first names is specifically and mutually agreed upon. The use of first names is always proposed by the older or more senior person to the junior, or, in the case of equals, by the woman to the man; the agreement is enacted by shaking hands, making eye contact, with each party saying their first name aloud, and nodding the head. Raising a toast with schnapps, wine or champagne lends a festive air to the occasion.There's a bit more further on about what the actual greeting customs are ("shake hands and make eye contact").
I'm sure we have some MF members from Finland and it would be good to have their take on the article.
posted by paduasoy at 1:27 PM on December 28, 2021 [13 favorites]
Adding that "good to see you" is common in England also. There are some good 19th century variants in the British Newspaper Archive:
-1844: "It was common phrase to say, “It does one good to see you, and in this instance it was impossible to deny that it did one good to see the noble lord exerting himself in this benevolent work. (Cheers.)"
- 1867: "it does my heart good to see you here assembled"
- also 1867, event at a cricket club: "it does me good to see my fellow-men joining manly and proper exercise, which you all ought to indulge in, and it does me good to see you amusing yourselves."
- 1870: "Dear Hugh, dear Hugh, how we have missed you, and how good to see you again!"
- 1872: "It’s done my eyes good to see you, Mrs. Kane says warmly."
It is used in Pickwick Papers a few times, mostly as "glad to see you", but also this exchange:
"Why, I don’t find myself much the better for seeing of you," replied the ill-tempered groom.
"That’s wery odd - that is," said Sam, "for you look so uncommon cheerful, and seem altogether so lively, that it does vun’s heart good to see you."
posted by paduasoy at 1:36 PM on December 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
-1844: "It was common phrase to say, “It does one good to see you, and in this instance it was impossible to deny that it did one good to see the noble lord exerting himself in this benevolent work. (Cheers.)"
- 1867: "it does my heart good to see you here assembled"
- also 1867, event at a cricket club: "it does me good to see my fellow-men joining manly and proper exercise, which you all ought to indulge in, and it does me good to see you amusing yourselves."
- 1870: "Dear Hugh, dear Hugh, how we have missed you, and how good to see you again!"
- 1872: "It’s done my eyes good to see you, Mrs. Kane says warmly."
It is used in Pickwick Papers a few times, mostly as "glad to see you", but also this exchange:
"Why, I don’t find myself much the better for seeing of you," replied the ill-tempered groom.
"That’s wery odd - that is," said Sam, "for you look so uncommon cheerful, and seem altogether so lively, that it does vun’s heart good to see you."
posted by paduasoy at 1:36 PM on December 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
(I love stories of people being vaguely flummoxed by the hyper-familiar way we use language in the US.)
These kinds of observations are overblown, and this piece has more to do with the peculiarities of Finnish language use, as noted in paduasoy's post, than American. Lots of languages have neutral polite greeting questions that are understood by speakers to be mere pleasantries and not demanding an actual complete response (e.g., "Wie geht's?" or "元気ですか?").
posted by star gentle uterus at 1:37 PM on December 28, 2021 [7 favorites]
These kinds of observations are overblown, and this piece has more to do with the peculiarities of Finnish language use, as noted in paduasoy's post, than American. Lots of languages have neutral polite greeting questions that are understood by speakers to be mere pleasantries and not demanding an actual complete response (e.g., "Wie geht's?" or "元気ですか?").
posted by star gentle uterus at 1:37 PM on December 28, 2021 [7 favorites]
I looked up the author too, Kalle Oskari Mattila, and found this other piece which I liked: Words failed me in Finnish, so I came out in English.
posted by paduasoy at 1:44 PM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by paduasoy at 1:44 PM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
One of the (many) things I like about the Venezuelan immigration we've got in Chile over the past few years, is that many Venezuelan women call you 'mi amor' (my love), whereas we Chileans are usually not so touchy-feely.
posted by signal at 2:03 PM on December 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by signal at 2:03 PM on December 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
As a Brit visiting America, I always used to worry if I'd got the response right when someone greeted me with "How you doing?" What puzzled me was whether it'd be rude not to ask about the other person's well-being as part of my reply.
In other words, should I say "Good, thanks" or "Good, thanks. You?".
The handful of times I tried option 2, all it ever seemed to do was introduce a stumbling block into a conversation that would otherwise have flowed on perfectly smoothly, so I let it drop. Glad to hear I made the right decision.
posted by Paul Slade at 2:11 PM on December 28, 2021
In other words, should I say "Good, thanks" or "Good, thanks. You?".
The handful of times I tried option 2, all it ever seemed to do was introduce a stumbling block into a conversation that would otherwise have flowed on perfectly smoothly, so I let it drop. Glad to hear I made the right decision.
posted by Paul Slade at 2:11 PM on December 28, 2021
Miss Manners*: Hard to go wrong with ‘nice to meet you’; Judith Martin, Nicholas Martin, Jacobina Martin; Washington Post, August 13, 2018 (WaPo link, Archive.org link):
posted by cenoxo at 2:16 PM on December 28, 2021
Dear Miss Manners: Is it appropriate to say "Nice to meet you" when you meet somebody for the first time?*More about Miss Manners (Wikipedia).
I am French, and in France, a lot of people say "enchanté," but it is not polite. And most of all, a woman cannot be "enchantée" to meet a man, because in the "enchanté" term, there is an inside meaning of, "I feel some pleasure to meet you" — which is not appropriate. We have to say, "Bonjour, monsieur; bonjour, madame," and that's all. The Brits say, "How do you do?"
What is the best way to salute somebody in the USA?
- - - - - - - - - - -
“How do you do?”
But like your enchanted countrymen, most Americans believe that “Nice to meet you” is a polite thing to say upon meeting someone for the first time. Traditionalists sniff that one has no way of knowing at first sight whether it will turn out to be pleasurable to meet a particular stranger. Miss Manners agrees, although she does not sniff at good intentions — and could point out that “How do you do?” (not being a real question) could also be attacked as illogical.
posted by cenoxo at 2:16 PM on December 28, 2021
There is always, "Why you're a sight for sore eyes!" Only use this if you are an aging sherriff's deputy, or aging wild west barmaid.
There is ,"Hey," only use this as a one syllable word, along with, Gramma what's up, if you are a beloved, hip, grandchild. Use it as a multi syllabic word, with a variety of meanings, shades, and tones, when you are stranded among humans.
posted by Oyéah at 2:38 PM on December 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
There is ,"Hey," only use this as a one syllable word, along with, Gramma what's up, if you are a beloved, hip, grandchild. Use it as a multi syllabic word, with a variety of meanings, shades, and tones, when you are stranded among humans.
posted by Oyéah at 2:38 PM on December 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
The risk of using "hey" as a greeting is receiving a "hay is for horses," stiffly sniffed in return from a schoolmarm, who by Chapter 14 will have turned out to be a lovely person, indeed, with a terrifically sly sense of humor.
posted by champers at 2:44 PM on December 28, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by champers at 2:44 PM on December 28, 2021 [8 favorites]
Common filler terms in Ireland to say hello, not as genuine questions:
What's the craic?
How's the form?
How's she cuttin'?
How's about ye?
How's tricks?
Howya?
Hey horse
Well boy
Obviously tone and body language are much more important then the words themselves - I brought a girlfriend home for Christmas once, and my sister greeted her with a curt 'hey', which was received as (and intended as) a serious insult.
My favourite and least favourite ones are in England - I hate being called 'mate' by someone who's being openly indifferent or hostile towards me, but I love the idea of someone meeting a Bristol person for the first time and being baffled when the first thing they say is 'alright, my lover?'.
posted by kersplunk at 2:48 PM on December 28, 2021 [5 favorites]
What's the craic?
How's the form?
How's she cuttin'?
How's about ye?
How's tricks?
Howya?
Hey horse
Well boy
Obviously tone and body language are much more important then the words themselves - I brought a girlfriend home for Christmas once, and my sister greeted her with a curt 'hey', which was received as (and intended as) a serious insult.
My favourite and least favourite ones are in England - I hate being called 'mate' by someone who's being openly indifferent or hostile towards me, but I love the idea of someone meeting a Bristol person for the first time and being baffled when the first thing they say is 'alright, my lover?'.
posted by kersplunk at 2:48 PM on December 28, 2021 [5 favorites]
As a Kiwi, I've given up on "G'day" and gone for the monosyllabic "Hey" (intonation & body language can fill in the blanks as to whether its a good, bad or indifferent greeting).
Amusingly, "Hei" and "Heihei" can be used in Finnish for a relatively casual Hello & Goodbye respectively.
Increasingly "Kia ora" for hello and "Mōrena" for good-morning are increasingly common/popular as the Māori starts to become more ubiquitous among the population in NZ.
posted by phigmov at 3:00 PM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
Amusingly, "Hei" and "Heihei" can be used in Finnish for a relatively casual Hello & Goodbye respectively.
Increasingly "Kia ora" for hello and "Mōrena" for good-morning are increasingly common/popular as the Māori starts to become more ubiquitous among the population in NZ.
posted by phigmov at 3:00 PM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm far too busy sweating over the fact that I will almost immediately forget your name to worry about anything else.
posted by emjaybee at 3:27 PM on December 28, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 3:27 PM on December 28, 2021 [11 favorites]
being called 'mate' by someone who's being openly indifferent or hostile towards me
There's a similar thing in the US - although technically "pal" means the same as "mate", it's mostly used by surly people who clearly don't consider you to be their friend - for example "Hey, watch where you're going, pal!" snarled at you by someone who probably wasn't watching where they were going. American friends rarely call each other "pal" (or "chum" for that matter, at least in the circles I've run in), but "mate" does seem to get equally used in the friendly sense.
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:35 PM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
There's a similar thing in the US - although technically "pal" means the same as "mate", it's mostly used by surly people who clearly don't consider you to be their friend - for example "Hey, watch where you're going, pal!" snarled at you by someone who probably wasn't watching where they were going. American friends rarely call each other "pal" (or "chum" for that matter, at least in the circles I've run in), but "mate" does seem to get equally used in the friendly sense.
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:35 PM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
The risk of using "hey" as a greeting is receiving a "hay is for horses," stiffly sniffed in return from a schoolmarm, who by Chapter 14 will have turned out to be a lovely person, indeed, with a terrifically sly sense of humor.
If you're lucky they call you a horse. The proper response is, “Don’t you say hey to me, you ugly girl! You say good afternoon, Mrs. Dubose!”
posted by ActingTheGoat at 3:43 PM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
If you're lucky they call you a horse. The proper response is, “Don’t you say hey to me, you ugly girl! You say good afternoon, Mrs. Dubose!”
posted by ActingTheGoat at 3:43 PM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
whereas we Chileans are usually not so touchy-feely.
Truly. When I visited Chile it felt like the Canada of South America.
posted by cardboard at 3:45 PM on December 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
Truly. When I visited Chile it felt like the Canada of South America.
posted by cardboard at 3:45 PM on December 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
as someone who hates "how's it goin?" or "how are you?" as a greeting (whether for the first time or the hundredth) I applaud "good to see you" as their all purpose replacement.
Because the former two (whether intended or not) are asking for an answer, and an oft complicated one at that (if one is to be honest), whereas the latter is merely, pleasantly acknowledging my presence.
>In my (American) experience, so are the first two for most people - they're just a congenial noise people make when meeting each other.
Suddenly I'm reminded of how in lots of cultures, you might get offered some refreshment, and you should decline. And then be offered again, and decline again. And then get offered for a third time -- and that's when you accept.
The first "how are you" is just saying hi. When sometimes people then issue repeated questions about how you are, often with more serious intonation, that's when you know they actually care to know the answer.
In other words, should I say "Good, thanks" or "Good, thanks. You?"
TBH I'd find it pretty rude to not get a reciprocal question, even if it's mostly just a conversational roadbump. It's still an acknowledgement of the other person, and when the other person doesn't return it it can feel like they don't see us as being on the same level of importance. (Context depending, of course.)
Often the seconds lost to the "how are you" ritual feel annoying. But also sometimes I'll be in a conversation with someone who really is asking, and it reminds me that not everyone is from a culture where making space for non-superficial conversations with people outside your innermost circles takes a distant backseat to everything else, and sometimes that reminder that I can choose to step back and do that is nice too.
posted by trig at 4:26 PM on December 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
Because the former two (whether intended or not) are asking for an answer, and an oft complicated one at that (if one is to be honest), whereas the latter is merely, pleasantly acknowledging my presence.
>In my (American) experience, so are the first two for most people - they're just a congenial noise people make when meeting each other.
Suddenly I'm reminded of how in lots of cultures, you might get offered some refreshment, and you should decline. And then be offered again, and decline again. And then get offered for a third time -- and that's when you accept.
The first "how are you" is just saying hi. When sometimes people then issue repeated questions about how you are, often with more serious intonation, that's when you know they actually care to know the answer.
In other words, should I say "Good, thanks" or "Good, thanks. You?"
TBH I'd find it pretty rude to not get a reciprocal question, even if it's mostly just a conversational roadbump. It's still an acknowledgement of the other person, and when the other person doesn't return it it can feel like they don't see us as being on the same level of importance. (Context depending, of course.)
Often the seconds lost to the "how are you" ritual feel annoying. But also sometimes I'll be in a conversation with someone who really is asking, and it reminds me that not everyone is from a culture where making space for non-superficial conversations with people outside your innermost circles takes a distant backseat to everything else, and sometimes that reminder that I can choose to step back and do that is nice too.
posted by trig at 4:26 PM on December 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
A congenial grunt and a nod or raising of the eyebrows usually suffices, I find, when passing by a colleague at work in a hallway.
Why yes I am in academia why OH COFFEE good point
posted by not_on_display at 4:50 PM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
Why yes I am in academia why OH COFFEE good point
posted by not_on_display at 4:50 PM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
Often the seconds lost to the "how are you" ritual feel annoying
(off-topic)
That reminds me of a fairly recent Metafilter thread where someone mentioned that it bothered them when someone texted/IM'd just "Hi [name]", then eventually a follow-up text/IM about the actual thing the person was interrupting them about. I'd halfway noted that behavior from my coworkers but hadn't really thought much about it...but ever since that thread I've really noticed it and faintly resented the additional few seconds of interruption from whatever else I was focusing on at the time (as opposed to if they had just sent a single text like "Hi [name], I have a question about [topic]: [the actual question]" in the first place). It's been hard to work myself backward to my previous indifference.
I've taken to waiting without response for the main part of the exchange, eventually sending just "hi" back after that, then waiting a bit more before responding to the actual topic...just to passive-aggressively punish them with a taste of their own medicine. I'm not expecting that to make anyone change their behavior, but at least it makes me feel negligibly better.
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:57 PM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
(off-topic)
That reminds me of a fairly recent Metafilter thread where someone mentioned that it bothered them when someone texted/IM'd just "Hi [name]", then eventually a follow-up text/IM about the actual thing the person was interrupting them about. I'd halfway noted that behavior from my coworkers but hadn't really thought much about it...but ever since that thread I've really noticed it and faintly resented the additional few seconds of interruption from whatever else I was focusing on at the time (as opposed to if they had just sent a single text like "Hi [name], I have a question about [topic]: [the actual question]" in the first place). It's been hard to work myself backward to my previous indifference.
I've taken to waiting without response for the main part of the exchange, eventually sending just "hi" back after that, then waiting a bit more before responding to the actual topic...just to passive-aggressively punish them with a taste of their own medicine. I'm not expecting that to make anyone change their behavior, but at least it makes me feel negligibly better.
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:57 PM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
someone mentioned that it bothered them when someone texted/IM'd just "Hi [name]", then eventually a follow-up text/IM about the actual thing the person was interrupting them about.
This is growing to be a workplace trope lately, especially with more people operating remotely. A consensus seems to be building that "hi X" followed by a long pause followed by "the real business message/question" is bad, and people should just stick them together in a single message. That way the receiver has context and isn't twitching with unpleasant anticipation.
Especially true for bosses messaging subordinates.
posted by theorique at 5:25 PM on December 28, 2021 [4 favorites]
This is growing to be a workplace trope lately, especially with more people operating remotely. A consensus seems to be building that "hi X" followed by a long pause followed by "the real business message/question" is bad, and people should just stick them together in a single message. That way the receiver has context and isn't twitching with unpleasant anticipation.
Especially true for bosses messaging subordinates.
posted by theorique at 5:25 PM on December 28, 2021 [4 favorites]
as someone who hates "how's it goin?" or "how are you?" as a greeting (whether for the first time or the hundredth) I applaud "good to see you" as their all purpose replacement.
Because the former two (whether intended or not) are asking for an answer, and an oft complicated one at that (if one is to be honest), whereas the latter is merely, pleasantly acknowledging my presence.--philip-random
That's the thing--these questions are most definitely not asking for an answer. You can give a non-answer such as 'fine, thanks', but anything more shows a misunderstanding of these greetings and leads to awkwardness.
I'm reminded of the beer commercial, which made fun of this.
posted by eye of newt at 6:57 PM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
Because the former two (whether intended or not) are asking for an answer, and an oft complicated one at that (if one is to be honest), whereas the latter is merely, pleasantly acknowledging my presence.--philip-random
That's the thing--these questions are most definitely not asking for an answer. You can give a non-answer such as 'fine, thanks', but anything more shows a misunderstanding of these greetings and leads to awkwardness.
I'm reminded of the beer commercial, which made fun of this.
posted by eye of newt at 6:57 PM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
There's a similar thing in the US - although technically "pal" means the same as "mate", it's mostly used by surly people who clearly don't consider you to be their friend - for example "Hey, watch where you're going, pal!"
Me calling a guy on the street 'buddy' = "I'm ready to kill you"
Me calling a dog 'buddy' = "I would die for you"
posted by praemunire at 7:38 PM on December 28, 2021 [11 favorites]
Me calling a guy on the street 'buddy' = "I'm ready to kill you"
Me calling a dog 'buddy' = "I would die for you"
posted by praemunire at 7:38 PM on December 28, 2021 [11 favorites]
It might be just custom with no underlying meaning, like saying “bless you” when someone sneezes (which annoys me and I never do, but I understand that it means nothing).
The one that annoys me is when you pass someone and they say, “How’s it going?” And then are already behind you before you can respond. Maybe I can get in a “hey.” Possible recourses are to get them first or preemptively saying “hey” and avoiding the whole situation.
Why can’t people just nod, wave, smile, or raise an eyebrow (for special situations) instead of initiating a “conversation” that isn’t expected to happen?
posted by sjswitzer at 7:52 PM on December 28, 2021
The one that annoys me is when you pass someone and they say, “How’s it going?” And then are already behind you before you can respond. Maybe I can get in a “hey.” Possible recourses are to get them first or preemptively saying “hey” and avoiding the whole situation.
Why can’t people just nod, wave, smile, or raise an eyebrow (for special situations) instead of initiating a “conversation” that isn’t expected to happen?
posted by sjswitzer at 7:52 PM on December 28, 2021
Here in South Africa, black strangers (I am white) will sometimes call me "Sisi" (sister) or less often, "Mama". It feels so good. That casual familiarity.
Not so much when someone calls me "Antie" or "Tannie". Those feel like they're putting me in my place.
The real slap in the face is if I greet an Afrikaans speaking person in Afrikaans (my first language) and they respond in English. It feels like an insult.
posted by Zumbador at 7:57 PM on December 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
Not so much when someone calls me "Antie" or "Tannie". Those feel like they're putting me in my place.
The real slap in the face is if I greet an Afrikaans speaking person in Afrikaans (my first language) and they respond in English. It feels like an insult.
posted by Zumbador at 7:57 PM on December 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
The one that annoys me is when you pass someone and they say, “How’s it going?” ... Why can’t people just nod, wave, smile, ... instead of initiating a “conversation” that isn’t expected to happen?
Because people (at least in the US, and maybe specifically in the southern US) have been socialized to "be nice" (that is, to appear nice, not to actually be it). Given that context, their "How's it going" isn't really initiating a conversation, it's just the version of meaningless social noise that they were taught was a "nice" thing to say.
Which is not to say your reaction to it is wrong. But if you're misinterpreting its meaning and getting frustrated when that interpretation doesn't play out how you expected, then I hope my explanation helps you get past that frustration and not take it as a personal affront. On the other hand if you're still annoyed you're absolutely within your rights to be so and you can ignore my misguided attempt to help.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:09 PM on December 28, 2021 [4 favorites]
Because people (at least in the US, and maybe specifically in the southern US) have been socialized to "be nice" (that is, to appear nice, not to actually be it). Given that context, their "How's it going" isn't really initiating a conversation, it's just the version of meaningless social noise that they were taught was a "nice" thing to say.
Which is not to say your reaction to it is wrong. But if you're misinterpreting its meaning and getting frustrated when that interpretation doesn't play out how you expected, then I hope my explanation helps you get past that frustration and not take it as a personal affront. On the other hand if you're still annoyed you're absolutely within your rights to be so and you can ignore my misguided attempt to help.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:09 PM on December 28, 2021 [4 favorites]
That reminds me of a fairly recent Metafilter thread where someone mentioned that it bothered them when someone texted/IM'd just "Hi [name]", then eventually a follow-up text/IM about the actual thing the person was interrupting them about. I'd halfway noted that behavior from my coworkers but hadn't really thought much about it...but ever since that thread I've really noticed it and faintly resented the additional few seconds of interruption from whatever else I was focusing on at the time (as opposed to if they had just sent a single text like "Hi [name], I have a question about [topic]: [the actual question]" in the first place). It's been hard to work myself backward to my previous indifference.
I have one specific coworker who does this, and I hate it. They say "Hi (name)" and then everything just waits until you respond to the "hi". They are from a different region and I just chalk it up to different social norms, but it still has a nails-on-chalkboard quality for me. I would feel differently if we were actually close, but since we aren't, it feels like an imposition of fake connection (which I am 100% sure is not how they intend it).
posted by Dip Flash at 8:35 PM on December 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
I have one specific coworker who does this, and I hate it. They say "Hi (name)" and then everything just waits until you respond to the "hi". They are from a different region and I just chalk it up to different social norms, but it still has a nails-on-chalkboard quality for me. I would feel differently if we were actually close, but since we aren't, it feels like an imposition of fake connection (which I am 100% sure is not how they intend it).
posted by Dip Flash at 8:35 PM on December 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
Another Kiwi reporting in, like phigmov above g'day seems to be dropping away, but still common in the bush/deep rural and from older people. It's also still reasonably common to wave at other drivers in rural areas, lifting a bent finger off the steering wheel is all you need. Def. a good idea if you haven't been somewhere before as not waving will travel on the bush telegraph faster than you drive in some places.
Since Covid the East Coast wave has been promoted, 8-seconds in Jacinda shows how and Random Access Maori on twtr (2-second clip). The East Coast wave has ben common in the bush for years, and it seems to be a form that can be developed to the point where it's almost not there, a very subtle flick of the eyebrows.
Quite a few people say 'hey man' to me which is cool, 'mate' is a bit too familiar if a person is not in my social sphere. I never know what to say to 'how is it? / how's things?'. And like emjaybee ^ I will have forgotten your name by then.
posted by unearthed at 8:49 PM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
Since Covid the East Coast wave has been promoted, 8-seconds in Jacinda shows how and Random Access Maori on twtr (2-second clip). The East Coast wave has ben common in the bush for years, and it seems to be a form that can be developed to the point where it's almost not there, a very subtle flick of the eyebrows.
Quite a few people say 'hey man' to me which is cool, 'mate' is a bit too familiar if a person is not in my social sphere. I never know what to say to 'how is it? / how's things?'. And like emjaybee ^ I will have forgotten your name by then.
posted by unearthed at 8:49 PM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
Or you could go whole-hog in the other direction - respond to any sort of greeting with excessive clarity: "I acknowledge your presence in a cordial and non-confrontational manner." Be sure to shout it at their back if they didn't wait to hear your reply.
That should keep them disconcerted and out of your hair for about half an hour. Plus, added bonus - they're probably avoid you from then on, which solves the problem even more thoroughly!
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:09 PM on December 28, 2021
That should keep them disconcerted and out of your hair for about half an hour. Plus, added bonus - they're probably avoid you from then on, which solves the problem even more thoroughly!
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:09 PM on December 28, 2021
I love the idea of someone meeting a Bristol person for the first time and being baffled when the first thing they say is 'alright, my lover?'.
Despite being forewarned about a friend-of-a-friend's idiosyncratic technique, I was still very much taken aback when they greeted me, in all seeming amiability, with "Alright, dickhead?"
posted by entity447b at 9:45 PM on December 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
Despite being forewarned about a friend-of-a-friend's idiosyncratic technique, I was still very much taken aback when they greeted me, in all seeming amiability, with "Alright, dickhead?"
posted by entity447b at 9:45 PM on December 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
Having grown up in the American South and then spent my college years in Boston and then spent the rest of my time in SoCal - gah, do I miss the absolute blunt curtness of Boston (North East US really - at least Philly to Boston) - conversational protocols
posted by drewbage1847 at 11:17 PM on December 28, 2021
posted by drewbage1847 at 11:17 PM on December 28, 2021
Pop quiz, hotshot: When someone says "How do you do?" in Britain, what is your correct response?
posted by Paul Slade at 12:22 AM on December 29, 2021
posted by Paul Slade at 12:22 AM on December 29, 2021
"How do you do?" is very rarely used in Britain now or for I think a couple of decades. I don't think I have ever heard it. Maybe in ultra-formal business or diplomatic settings or by posh people over 80? A couple of Separated by a Common Language posts on greetings: Good morning and All right?.
posted by paduasoy at 2:36 AM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by paduasoy at 2:36 AM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
(Thank you for getting me to figure out how to use the Firefox Reader tool!)
posted by doctornemo at 7:17 AM on December 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by doctornemo at 7:17 AM on December 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
I've always wanted to steal this from Buffy the Vampire Slayer someday, but for obvious reasons, the appropriate situation never comes up:
posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:51 AM on December 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
Riley: It's nice to meet you both.(S04E01, "The Freshman")
Buffy: I'm nice to meet.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:51 AM on December 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
I love the idea of someone meeting a Bristol person for the first time and being baffled when the first thing they say is 'alright, my lover?'.
Thas' proper job, that is.
A friend of mine from Devon once told me that his father and his father's oldest friend would exchange this greeting every time they met:
"How be knackin' vorm, me 'andsome?"
"Well, there 'tis you."
Roughly translated, it means:
"How's everything with you, my friend?"
"Ahh, what are you going to do?"
posted by Paul Slade at 11:13 AM on December 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
Thas' proper job, that is.
A friend of mine from Devon once told me that his father and his father's oldest friend would exchange this greeting every time they met:
"How be knackin' vorm, me 'andsome?"
"Well, there 'tis you."
Roughly translated, it means:
"How's everything with you, my friend?"
"Ahh, what are you going to do?"
posted by Paul Slade at 11:13 AM on December 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
Transactional Analysis theory likens these small exchanges to stroking and infant. Adults trade strokes back and forth in a countable manner that itself forms the emotional communication of mutual affect. If you consider small talk meaningless and therefore unimportant, this can be a good gateway for appreciating it's social purpose.
posted by grokus at 2:27 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by grokus at 2:27 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
From the Frank Zappa tune "Rudy Wants To Buy Yez A Drink" -- IIRC --
Well, hello and howdy doody
Iʻm the Union man, you can call me Rudy
Any of you boys not paid up on your cards?
Itʻs really nice to meet ya
Been trying all day to see ya
The Unionʻs here to help every one of you Rock and Roll stars...
posted by Droll Lord at 3:41 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
Well, hello and howdy doody
Iʻm the Union man, you can call me Rudy
Any of you boys not paid up on your cards?
Itʻs really nice to meet ya
Been trying all day to see ya
The Unionʻs here to help every one of you Rock and Roll stars...
posted by Droll Lord at 3:41 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
> A couple of Separated by a Common Language posts on greetings: Good morning and All right?.
“Good Morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out further than the brim of his shady hat.posted by sebastienbailard at 3:33 AM on December 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
"What do you mean?" he said. "Do you wish me a good morning, or mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel good this morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?"
"All of them at once," said Bilbo. "And a very fine morning for a pipe of tobacco out of doors, into the bargain.
...
"Good morning!" he said at last. "We don't want any adventures here, thank you! You might try over The Hill or across The Water." By this he meant that the conversation was at an end.
"What a lot of things you do use Good morning for!" said Gandalf. "Now you mean that you want to get rid of me, and that it won't be good till I move off.”
I find that adopting the stance of a central-casting cowboy, and fashioning my hands into fingerpistols and saying "HOWDY PARDNER, PEW PEW PEW" shooting the fingerguns in the air... well that's enough to drive anyone in the other direction. If they don't flee, then I have found a kindred spirit.
posted by not_on_display at 10:31 AM on December 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by not_on_display at 10:31 AM on December 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
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(I love stories of people being vaguely flummoxed by the hyper-familiar way we use language in the US.)
posted by champers at 12:03 PM on December 28, 2021