We Only Text on Birthdays Now
February 7, 2022 3:49 PM Subscribe
Losing a Best Friend A short, moving excerpt from “The world is a sphere of ice and our hands are made of fire” by Ritika Jyala. Beautifully read, and the words also appear on screen.
That hit home. I’ve lost a close friend inexplicably and we only text each other on birthdays. Literally.
posted by dhruva at 5:38 PM on February 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by dhruva at 5:38 PM on February 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
I hate wondering what it was I did to put some people off.
Some folks you inevitably lose because they moved away or got married. You expect that, you get used to it, especially when people become Young Smug Marrieds and you remain single without a man for theirs to play with. Sometimes people just find me annoying and I can't blame them there. Other people just stop talking to you and you never find out why. I have certain ex-friends that I ALWAYS wonder what it was I did wrong. I have racked my brains for years and I have never been able to figure out why that crowd dumped me. I used to go to the same con as them once in awhile and I considered getting up the nerve to ask, but never did, until they were already gone.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:11 PM on February 7, 2022 [7 favorites]
Some folks you inevitably lose because they moved away or got married. You expect that, you get used to it, especially when people become Young Smug Marrieds and you remain single without a man for theirs to play with. Sometimes people just find me annoying and I can't blame them there. Other people just stop talking to you and you never find out why. I have certain ex-friends that I ALWAYS wonder what it was I did wrong. I have racked my brains for years and I have never been able to figure out why that crowd dumped me. I used to go to the same con as them once in awhile and I considered getting up the nerve to ask, but never did, until they were already gone.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:11 PM on February 7, 2022 [7 favorites]
This sounds exactly like the kind of thing that will make me sob, but I really don't want to do that. Still, I'm leaving a comment for the day I feel less emotionally fragile.
Some folks you inevitably lose because they moved away or got married. You expect that, you get used to it
Expect, yes. Gotten used to? I haven't managed that yet myself.
posted by xenization at 6:20 PM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
Some folks you inevitably lose because they moved away or got married. You expect that, you get used to it
Expect, yes. Gotten used to? I haven't managed that yet myself.
posted by xenization at 6:20 PM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
Some people don't do well if you are not in the same life situation as them- work friends, moving away friends, Smug Marrieds. Or they are "in person" friends only, which has sucked in pandemic. Online chatty ones are the only ones I somewhat may reasonably keep.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:25 PM on February 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:25 PM on February 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
I think of that Gotye song, "Someone I Used to Know." Such a sad and knowing phrase that encapsulates this. Friends, lovers...people just fade out of your life, and it's painful because there's no closure, just this vague dissipation. I think the problem lies in most of us because we imprint the concept of friendship when we are very young. And at that age making and keeping friends is very very easy, even if you are shy. Because you’re around the same people (more or less) every day for months and years at a time. And you don’t have to work or raise kids or have other responsibilities that causes this de-friending to happen.
But then you leave school and start to work, or even if you don’t have to work your friends probably do, and life just really really gets in the way. I suppose there's some solace in the fact that this is a widespread, probably universal phenomenon. But yeah, it sucks. Because I have certain friends that I want to talk about past events, those "Hey, remember when we...." stories you have that you could tell your current friends, but it wouldn't resonate the same.
posted by zardoz at 7:01 PM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
But then you leave school and start to work, or even if you don’t have to work your friends probably do, and life just really really gets in the way. I suppose there's some solace in the fact that this is a widespread, probably universal phenomenon. But yeah, it sucks. Because I have certain friends that I want to talk about past events, those "Hey, remember when we...." stories you have that you could tell your current friends, but it wouldn't resonate the same.
posted by zardoz at 7:01 PM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
I miss my old crew of nerd friends I used to hang out with in the early aughts. We exchange the odd word on Facebook but relationships ended and so did the crew. Those days are over and I've got a different life that satisfies, but this brought me to tears thinking of those days.
posted by signsofrain at 7:02 PM on February 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by signsofrain at 7:02 PM on February 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
Wow, thank you for posting this. It hits home.
In the last few years, nearly all of my closest friends moved out of the area, mostly because of the high cost of living here... Yeah, we try to keep in touch by text etc., but eventually it kind of fades away.
It obviously makes me deeply sad. I hadn't thought of it as grief. It happens so gradually, and there's no resolution or clear ending to it at all -- it just hangs there. But it's a form of grief for sure.
posted by mikeand1 at 7:34 PM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
In the last few years, nearly all of my closest friends moved out of the area, mostly because of the high cost of living here... Yeah, we try to keep in touch by text etc., but eventually it kind of fades away.
It obviously makes me deeply sad. I hadn't thought of it as grief. It happens so gradually, and there's no resolution or clear ending to it at all -- it just hangs there. But it's a form of grief for sure.
posted by mikeand1 at 7:34 PM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
Does anyone have good tips for how to bridge this gap when (1) Covid makes IRL impractical and (2) zoom fatigue combined with not a lot of evolution on my end make it so I have little to engage with digitally?
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 8:21 PM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 8:21 PM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
That's just lovely. On a personal level, wow, I identify. I'm still in mourning a friendship that unexpectedly ended almost 7 years ago.
On a less personal level, this is my counter to everyone up in arms at And Just Like That, the updated Sex and the City -- because the girls' friendship with Samantha, a former bestie, has ended. People screaming about "They'd always be friends!!!" are so wrong. Friendships end. Friendships you never thought would end just...end.
:(
posted by BlahLaLa at 8:31 PM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
On a less personal level, this is my counter to everyone up in arms at And Just Like That, the updated Sex and the City -- because the girls' friendship with Samantha, a former bestie, has ended. People screaming about "They'd always be friends!!!" are so wrong. Friendships end. Friendships you never thought would end just...end.
:(
posted by BlahLaLa at 8:31 PM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
"Does anyone have good tips for how to bridge this gap when (1) Covid makes IRL impractical and (2) zoom fatigue combined with not a lot of evolution on my end make it so I have little to engage with digitally?" Be more flexible and willing to allow space or whathaveyou. It's challenging when people see assembling their lives.
Sure, friendships end or morph or are put on pause, they're unpredictable and sometimes take lives of their own. It's good to be open, not assume, and take time to visit (when allowable) or ask questions. This can be really challenging when you're in a difficult place mentally.
And honestly, if you don't know how a person feels or it's important to bridge a gap: find a way to just ask. The internet or zoom isn't necessarily ideal, and sometimes people need significant periods of change or time.
An example that comes to mind: two friends in separate countries hadn't spoken in an extended period of time. One met (myself, third party), and said, "..I haven't heard from him, he doesn't call me-" When the other friend happened to ask, that's literally the only sentence he needed to hear. Then they were in contact, again (dorks)
It's of course, okay, to let friendships phase down or out, but I think it's valuable to remain flexible, because you never know. A person can make friends or become a friend (newly or again) at any time.
posted by firstdaffodils at 9:07 PM on February 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
Sure, friendships end or morph or are put on pause, they're unpredictable and sometimes take lives of their own. It's good to be open, not assume, and take time to visit (when allowable) or ask questions. This can be really challenging when you're in a difficult place mentally.
And honestly, if you don't know how a person feels or it's important to bridge a gap: find a way to just ask. The internet or zoom isn't necessarily ideal, and sometimes people need significant periods of change or time.
An example that comes to mind: two friends in separate countries hadn't spoken in an extended period of time. One met (myself, third party), and said, "..I haven't heard from him, he doesn't call me-" When the other friend happened to ask, that's literally the only sentence he needed to hear. Then they were in contact, again (dorks)
It's of course, okay, to let friendships phase down or out, but I think it's valuable to remain flexible, because you never know. A person can make friends or become a friend (newly or again) at any time.
posted by firstdaffodils at 9:07 PM on February 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
*challenging when people are assembling their lives
posted by firstdaffodils at 9:17 PM on February 7, 2022
posted by firstdaffodils at 9:17 PM on February 7, 2022
Reasonably, if you can't do IRL with those who want in person, things just....kinda die. I had a few in person reunions with those folks in spring/summer/fall and then had to give up again due to omicron. You don't HAVE to Zoom with anyone, there are plenty of other electronic options for hanging out, but you and the other person both have to be willing to try at least one of them consistently. Text, email, social media, online chat/discord/slack, Facetime/Teleparty, gaming....hell, one friend actually writes snail mail. But you have to keep going with them.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:43 PM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:43 PM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
Honestly, it's challenging to be in a space where relationships sometimes are changing so rapidly, the only way to "feel," is you have no idea what to feel. It's just an area of unknown, which is why it makes sense not to give a lot of concrete definitions/decisions, or define terms so quickly.
posted by firstdaffodils at 11:37 PM on February 7, 2022
posted by firstdaffodils at 11:37 PM on February 7, 2022
..also, maybe I'm a little jerk for saying this, but halfway through the video my thoughts were essentially, "I appreciate the tone, life is short, just text your friend."
posted by firstdaffodils at 11:43 PM on February 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by firstdaffodils at 11:43 PM on February 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
we used to write letters.
posted by lapolla at 12:51 AM on February 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by lapolla at 12:51 AM on February 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
I play a game called "If I stop initiating contact, am I going to ever hear from you again?" And the answer is overwhelmingly no.
posted by Jacen at 1:12 AM on February 8, 2022 [13 favorites]
posted by Jacen at 1:12 AM on February 8, 2022 [13 favorites]
An example that comes to mind: two friends in separate countries hadn't spoken in an extended period of time. One met (myself, third party), and said, "..I haven't heard from him, he doesn't call me-" When the other friend happened to ask, that's literally the only sentence he needed to hear. Then they were in contact, again (dorks)
This is why it's so useful to have a personal network with lots of strong ties. And I mean strong ties as defined by network theory. Because according to network theory, whether ties are classified as strong or weak is not at all about the quality of the relationship, the amount of intimacy and trust, shared interests or transforming experiences, how much of a soul-mate you are, etc. It's entirely about how many of your friends are also friends with how many of your other friends.
That sounds pretty prosaic, but I've found that in my own life, it mostly applies - the most stable long-term friendships I have are those where we've basically all known each other since Kindergarten and grew up in the same village, and might not see each other for months at a time, but when we do, it always feels fairly natural, because even if individuals in that circle of friends are not terribly good at keeping in touch, someone is always keeping in touch with someone (and be it only because they're related), and they can update you if you lose touch with others, and you kinda keep touch by osmis.
I follow some start-up/venture capital/business bros/motivational gurus on twitter (don't ask why), and they always talk up weak ties - because those are the ones that broaden your horizons, give you access to new resources, can advance your career, give you an competitive advantage.
But it's the strong ties that give you most comfort and stability, because they are comparatively low-maintenance. And low-maintenance is an important consideration if you want to have friends as an adult.
posted by sohalt at 1:40 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
This is why it's so useful to have a personal network with lots of strong ties. And I mean strong ties as defined by network theory. Because according to network theory, whether ties are classified as strong or weak is not at all about the quality of the relationship, the amount of intimacy and trust, shared interests or transforming experiences, how much of a soul-mate you are, etc. It's entirely about how many of your friends are also friends with how many of your other friends.
That sounds pretty prosaic, but I've found that in my own life, it mostly applies - the most stable long-term friendships I have are those where we've basically all known each other since Kindergarten and grew up in the same village, and might not see each other for months at a time, but when we do, it always feels fairly natural, because even if individuals in that circle of friends are not terribly good at keeping in touch, someone is always keeping in touch with someone (and be it only because they're related), and they can update you if you lose touch with others, and you kinda keep touch by osmis.
I follow some start-up/venture capital/business bros/motivational gurus on twitter (don't ask why), and they always talk up weak ties - because those are the ones that broaden your horizons, give you access to new resources, can advance your career, give you an competitive advantage.
But it's the strong ties that give you most comfort and stability, because they are comparatively low-maintenance. And low-maintenance is an important consideration if you want to have friends as an adult.
posted by sohalt at 1:40 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
I have a best friend I who I might talk to once a year, or twice, or once in two years, nobody's counting. She texts on my birthday, I text on hers. I send her links she might like, she sometimes replies. We used to hog the curly-corded rotary dial telephone every night, talking to each other for hours. Sometimes I'd pick up the phone and find no dial tone but her on the other end because she had called me and I'd picked up before the phone had a chance to ring. We were tight.
Then nothing. I think we even walked past each other on my country lane about a year into our silence without comment or indication.
One day a few years later, I casually looked at the date. It was her 21st birthday. I called (on the rotary dial). She didn't believe it was me. I had to answer a secret question only I would know and we became friends again. Then she moved countries and continents. Sometimes there would be letters or postcards but often not, for years. Then we'd find each other again.
The older we got the more we appreciated just being able to pick up where we left off. Years passing meant nothing. We laughed at the similar paths our interests seemed to track. We were mutually encouraging by harking back to teenage aspirations and reminding each other of who we are and where our core interests lay.
About five years ago, I went to visit her for the first time in a decade. I took a bunch of flowers and a balloon that said "Happy 40th anniversary".
About three years ago, after we hadn't been in contact for months, I messaged to say my mother had died. She quickly offered to take time off work to fly interstate and spend a few days on funeral things with me even though she hates funerals. I quickly accepted.
Last year I stopped in at her place while on a road trip. I reminded her of a soft toy elephant she had sewn and gifted me when we were tweens and how I lamented losing it. I know she now has her eyes out for a similar pattern to make another one.
A stuffed velvet elephant is a fitting symbol of our friendship: unforgettable and unbreakable because it is unconditional.
posted by Thella at 1:41 AM on February 8, 2022 [24 favorites]
Then nothing. I think we even walked past each other on my country lane about a year into our silence without comment or indication.
One day a few years later, I casually looked at the date. It was her 21st birthday. I called (on the rotary dial). She didn't believe it was me. I had to answer a secret question only I would know and we became friends again. Then she moved countries and continents. Sometimes there would be letters or postcards but often not, for years. Then we'd find each other again.
The older we got the more we appreciated just being able to pick up where we left off. Years passing meant nothing. We laughed at the similar paths our interests seemed to track. We were mutually encouraging by harking back to teenage aspirations and reminding each other of who we are and where our core interests lay.
About five years ago, I went to visit her for the first time in a decade. I took a bunch of flowers and a balloon that said "Happy 40th anniversary".
About three years ago, after we hadn't been in contact for months, I messaged to say my mother had died. She quickly offered to take time off work to fly interstate and spend a few days on funeral things with me even though she hates funerals. I quickly accepted.
Last year I stopped in at her place while on a road trip. I reminded her of a soft toy elephant she had sewn and gifted me when we were tweens and how I lamented losing it. I know she now has her eyes out for a similar pattern to make another one.
A stuffed velvet elephant is a fitting symbol of our friendship: unforgettable and unbreakable because it is unconditional.
posted by Thella at 1:41 AM on February 8, 2022 [24 favorites]
Losing friends happens a lot, but people seldom talk about it. People talk about break-ups and divorce all the time. The usual moving-away-reasons are no big mystery, but there can be so many causative factors, some of which remain a mystery.
Friendship is undervalued in our busy and mediated lives these days, that's for sure. I could use a few more friends, myself.
posted by kozad at 6:32 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Friendship is undervalued in our busy and mediated lives these days, that's for sure. I could use a few more friends, myself.
posted by kozad at 6:32 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
"The usual moving-away-reasons are no big mystery, but there can be so many causative factors, some of which remain a mystery.
Friendship is undervalued in our busy and mediated lives these days, that's for sure. I could use a few more friends, myself."
Yeah.
I don't really have any opinions or won't really solidify any, with how quickly situations can develop or change. Its nice to feel like nothings been lost, when things are more difficult.
posted by firstdaffodils at 6:43 AM on February 8, 2022
Friendship is undervalued in our busy and mediated lives these days, that's for sure. I could use a few more friends, myself."
Yeah.
I don't really have any opinions or won't really solidify any, with how quickly situations can develop or change. Its nice to feel like nothings been lost, when things are more difficult.
posted by firstdaffodils at 6:43 AM on February 8, 2022
I play a game called "If I stop initiating contact, am I going to ever hear from you again?" And the answer is overwhelmingly no.
It me! After I've been the only one initiating contact several times, and the other person is always busy or doesn't respond, I just take it as a sign that they don't want to continue the friendship. Which is fine, no one owes me being my friend. If they want to hang out or talk later, they can text me or something.
I currently have zero IRL friends.
posted by mrgoat at 6:53 AM on February 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
It me! After I've been the only one initiating contact several times, and the other person is always busy or doesn't respond, I just take it as a sign that they don't want to continue the friendship. Which is fine, no one owes me being my friend. If they want to hang out or talk later, they can text me or something.
I currently have zero IRL friends.
posted by mrgoat at 6:53 AM on February 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
I'm still trying to learn how to be with an emotion, acknowledge it, then move on. I love this piece for how it expresses things many of us have experienced, and we should be so lucky. I've met people and from all I can see, they live without love.. friendships, sibling relationships.. nothing I've observed reveals any sort of connections in their life (thinking of a neighbour, and I could be wildly wrong here but it's hard not to notice over a period of 10+ years when you only ever see someone coming to or going from their home, and at their work, that's it).
So I'm grateful for any good friendship. Even the grief at losing friends.. such a gift, one way or another you lose everything eventually and it's good to know and feel the loss because that's what makes things worth anything.
posted by elkevelvet at 7:38 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
So I'm grateful for any good friendship. Even the grief at losing friends.. such a gift, one way or another you lose everything eventually and it's good to know and feel the loss because that's what makes things worth anything.
posted by elkevelvet at 7:38 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
"unforgettable and unbreakable because it is unconditional." It definitely makes things easier when people place less restrictive conditioning on another person or their connection, but uh, maybe this is why some people have less friendships.
posted by firstdaffodils at 8:43 AM on February 8, 2022
posted by firstdaffodils at 8:43 AM on February 8, 2022
fake friends love landlord more than neighbor
boss over colleague
Our Boys, not Them Over There
sooner or later everyone is Over There, but mostly no one believes it until after it happens to them
its not funny but i find it abusing
posted by Rev. Irreverent Revenant at 8:44 AM on February 8, 2022
boss over colleague
Our Boys, not Them Over There
sooner or later everyone is Over There, but mostly no one believes it until after it happens to them
its not funny but i find it abusing
posted by Rev. Irreverent Revenant at 8:44 AM on February 8, 2022
I play a game called "If I stop initiating contact, am I going to ever hear from you again?" And the answer is overwhelmingly no.
Yeah, this also me. Actually a couple of people have surfaced on their own, but not for very long.
I'm not sure what it is where I have to be the initiator with some people and other people always have to initiate with me. I feel weird when I always have to initiate because I'm wondering if I'm being a naggy bitch and they really just want me to go away.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:09 AM on February 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
Yeah, this also me. Actually a couple of people have surfaced on their own, but not for very long.
I'm not sure what it is where I have to be the initiator with some people and other people always have to initiate with me. I feel weird when I always have to initiate because I'm wondering if I'm being a naggy bitch and they really just want me to go away.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:09 AM on February 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
I play a game called "If I stop initiating contact, am I going to ever hear from you again?" And the answer is overwhelmingly no.
I find reaching out to friends to be incredibly difficult. I'm delighted to spend time with them, I care about them, but initiating contact is a challenge for me. I have this sense that I'm bothering them, for reasons that are better discussed with a therapist than processed in a comment form.
The point is, having friends who reach out to me and having group chat settings are hugely valuable to me. If I had a friend who used to contact me and then they suddenly stopped, I'd assume that they were busy and didn't have time to talk (or that I had made them mad in some way, depending how anxious I was feeling).
I feel like this game will quietly end friendships with people who are shy or busy or exhausted (or just have ADHD, and forget to do tasks they really care about like "text my friend"). I get that initiating contact is work and it's not fair that you should be the one who has to do it. But if this is a strategy to see "who really cares about me?" then I think it's a flawed one.
posted by JDHarper at 9:32 AM on February 8, 2022 [17 favorites]
I find reaching out to friends to be incredibly difficult. I'm delighted to spend time with them, I care about them, but initiating contact is a challenge for me. I have this sense that I'm bothering them, for reasons that are better discussed with a therapist than processed in a comment form.
The point is, having friends who reach out to me and having group chat settings are hugely valuable to me. If I had a friend who used to contact me and then they suddenly stopped, I'd assume that they were busy and didn't have time to talk (or that I had made them mad in some way, depending how anxious I was feeling).
I feel like this game will quietly end friendships with people who are shy or busy or exhausted (or just have ADHD, and forget to do tasks they really care about like "text my friend"). I get that initiating contact is work and it's not fair that you should be the one who has to do it. But if this is a strategy to see "who really cares about me?" then I think it's a flawed one.
posted by JDHarper at 9:32 AM on February 8, 2022 [17 favorites]
I play a game called "If I stop initiating contact, am I going to ever hear from you again?" And the answer is overwhelmingly no.
I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve lost this game. Every time hurts.
At the same time, it does make every time some reaches out that much more special.
posted by gottabefunky at 9:53 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve lost this game. Every time hurts.
At the same time, it does make every time some reaches out that much more special.
posted by gottabefunky at 9:53 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
I wonder if people felt like this back when the only means of remote communication were letters. I imagine so, just with even more waiting.
posted by gottabefunky at 9:56 AM on February 8, 2022
posted by gottabefunky at 9:56 AM on February 8, 2022
Making contact gets harder
As the silence grows longer
And isn't it only me?
Who'd like us to see each other?
How I would hate to be a bother
The way we left it was you'd ring.
Sometimes I still feel the bruise
posted by Candleman at 9:57 AM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
As the silence grows longer
And isn't it only me?
Who'd like us to see each other?
How I would hate to be a bother
The way we left it was you'd ring.
Sometimes I still feel the bruise
posted by Candleman at 9:57 AM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm better at initiating if I have a thing to tell them, like "hey, look at this silly website." And then people are like "cool" and that's it and then I wonder if I'm bugging them too much.
On a related note, Shasta Nelson writes very well about friendship and making friends and friendship maintenance. (Yes, it's geared towards women, but I think that would apply regardless of gender.) See this post on initiating in particular.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:24 AM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
On a related note, Shasta Nelson writes very well about friendship and making friends and friendship maintenance. (Yes, it's geared towards women, but I think that would apply regardless of gender.) See this post on initiating in particular.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:24 AM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
But if this is a strategy to see "who really cares about me?" then I think it's a flawed one.
Ok, I was glib saying "It me!", because I really don't think of it like a strategy quite in that way. It's just, you are how you act to your friends. I can't tell if someone's not responding because they're shy, or forgot or got busy if they don't respond. And frankly, if someone just opened up and told me they suck at initiating, but appreciate it that I do, I would welcome that and understand it and keep doing it.
But I can only send so many outgoing messages only to be left on "read" or with a non-committal "sry, super busy lately" before it's time to stop. There is actually a legitimate "I don't feel like hanging out with you", thing and that's OK. The other person needs to at least find a way to let me know that's not what's going on, if that's not what's going on. Because otherwise, I have to assume that's what's going on, and I'm not going to be that guy that keeps texting you while you wish I'd go away.
posted by mrgoat at 10:28 AM on February 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
Ok, I was glib saying "It me!", because I really don't think of it like a strategy quite in that way. It's just, you are how you act to your friends. I can't tell if someone's not responding because they're shy, or forgot or got busy if they don't respond. And frankly, if someone just opened up and told me they suck at initiating, but appreciate it that I do, I would welcome that and understand it and keep doing it.
But I can only send so many outgoing messages only to be left on "read" or with a non-committal "sry, super busy lately" before it's time to stop. There is actually a legitimate "I don't feel like hanging out with you", thing and that's OK. The other person needs to at least find a way to let me know that's not what's going on, if that's not what's going on. Because otherwise, I have to assume that's what's going on, and I'm not going to be that guy that keeps texting you while you wish I'd go away.
posted by mrgoat at 10:28 AM on February 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
jenfullmoon, I think I'm part of or adjacent to your tribe
one way I connect over distance is just sharing articles, videos, mentioning a film on Netflix.. I am quick to send an email, and there are times I haven't spoken to the person in months, but just a flash of "this made me think of you" and I also wonder if this is annoying to the recipient.. not many people do this to me, it's hard to say.
I'm objectively annoying in many ways so part of me does not want to know!! CLICK SEND
posted by elkevelvet at 11:00 AM on February 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
one way I connect over distance is just sharing articles, videos, mentioning a film on Netflix.. I am quick to send an email, and there are times I haven't spoken to the person in months, but just a flash of "this made me think of you" and I also wonder if this is annoying to the recipient.. not many people do this to me, it's hard to say.
I'm objectively annoying in many ways so part of me does not want to know!! CLICK SEND
posted by elkevelvet at 11:00 AM on February 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
I play a game called "If I stop initiating contact, am I going to ever hear from you again?" And the answer is overwhelmingly no.
I am almost always the person to initiate contact, and there are folks I know for sure I would stop hearing from if I didn't put the effort in. Folks who struggle, folks who have ten thousand demands on their energy and their spoon supply. Folks who are distracted, or distanced. This world is a constant nightmare, all of us on rocky islands in an acid ocean that slowly burns away all our connections into entropic nothing and numbing absence. It's *hard* to maintain those connections, but it is so much harder to lose them, so I'll be fucked if there's something I could do to hold it together that I stopped doing because I felt slighted. Friends are in diminishing supply as I age, and I've learned a long time ago that I'm only hurting myself if I stop trying to keep it together.
posted by FatherDagon at 12:06 PM on February 8, 2022 [7 favorites]
I am almost always the person to initiate contact, and there are folks I know for sure I would stop hearing from if I didn't put the effort in. Folks who struggle, folks who have ten thousand demands on their energy and their spoon supply. Folks who are distracted, or distanced. This world is a constant nightmare, all of us on rocky islands in an acid ocean that slowly burns away all our connections into entropic nothing and numbing absence. It's *hard* to maintain those connections, but it is so much harder to lose them, so I'll be fucked if there's something I could do to hold it together that I stopped doing because I felt slighted. Friends are in diminishing supply as I age, and I've learned a long time ago that I'm only hurting myself if I stop trying to keep it together.
posted by FatherDagon at 12:06 PM on February 8, 2022 [7 favorites]
It is worth reaching out. And for people who find it difficult - ask a question. Say “hi! I saw this weird snail and thought you would like it. Have you seen anything cool lately?” Or like ask about bread. Anything you know they care about and like. Acknowledge an interest in their life. Don’t play a game where everyone loses. Because it’s fucking behemoth of hard out there for everyone and we’re spread thin like the last scrape of jam on toast and good earth do we need just a tiny bit of joy to stitch together our days. It sure sucks to be the one who always reaches out, but it sure sucks more to become an isolated husk.
posted by Bottlecap at 1:12 PM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Bottlecap at 1:12 PM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
And frankly, if someone just opened up and told me they suck at initiating, but appreciate it that I do, I would welcome that and understand it and keep doing it.
Oh, two people have straight up told me this, but I still have my inner voices screaming that I'm being a pestering nag at the same time, you know? Especially when those people's introvert light is on or whatever and they don't respond or respond weeks later or whatever. The other day I looked at the FB of one of them and they had posted a quote about loving it when people are "clingy" and text them and want to let them know they are cared about. To which I was all "awww!" and "maybe it's okay?" and then back to "but am I being Much again?" Sigh. That was a fun chat in therapy today.
But I can only send so many outgoing messages only to be left on "read" or with a non-committal "sry, super busy lately" before it's time to stop. There is actually a legitimate "I don't feel like hanging out with you", thing and that's OK. The other person needs to at least find a way to let me know that's not what's going on, if that's not what's going on. Because otherwise, I have to assume that's what's going on, and I'm not going to be that guy that keeps texting you while you wish I'd go away.
Right, that's how I feel too. The problem is that most people don't want to tell you to go away directly and they want you to take a hint on your own, so I have no way of knowing if you're home and don't want to talk to me, or are home, desperately want to talk to me, but are trapped under something heavy. If you can't/won't say, I am going to have to take a guess on my own.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:47 PM on February 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
Oh, two people have straight up told me this, but I still have my inner voices screaming that I'm being a pestering nag at the same time, you know? Especially when those people's introvert light is on or whatever and they don't respond or respond weeks later or whatever. The other day I looked at the FB of one of them and they had posted a quote about loving it when people are "clingy" and text them and want to let them know they are cared about. To which I was all "awww!" and "maybe it's okay?" and then back to "but am I being Much again?" Sigh. That was a fun chat in therapy today.
But I can only send so many outgoing messages only to be left on "read" or with a non-committal "sry, super busy lately" before it's time to stop. There is actually a legitimate "I don't feel like hanging out with you", thing and that's OK. The other person needs to at least find a way to let me know that's not what's going on, if that's not what's going on. Because otherwise, I have to assume that's what's going on, and I'm not going to be that guy that keeps texting you while you wish I'd go away.
Right, that's how I feel too. The problem is that most people don't want to tell you to go away directly and they want you to take a hint on your own, so I have no way of knowing if you're home and don't want to talk to me, or are home, desperately want to talk to me, but are trapped under something heavy. If you can't/won't say, I am going to have to take a guess on my own.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:47 PM on February 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
I had two close contenders for best friend in high school.
I still have the last text message I sent one of them a few months into the pandemic.
“Hey dude, are you dead? You have to write back and tell me if you’re dead.”
But she didn’t, because, well, you know.
The other one I have traded the occasional message with but a couple of months ago he sent me an Alex Jones video and after ascertaining that he had not in fact been hacked I realized I must have lost him quite a while before.
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 7:03 PM on February 8, 2022
I still have the last text message I sent one of them a few months into the pandemic.
“Hey dude, are you dead? You have to write back and tell me if you’re dead.”
But she didn’t, because, well, you know.
The other one I have traded the occasional message with but a couple of months ago he sent me an Alex Jones video and after ascertaining that he had not in fact been hacked I realized I must have lost him quite a while before.
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 7:03 PM on February 8, 2022
I am a widow, and it’s screwed up my whole sense of where I belong in the world. Not always friend, some it’s my doing… but suddenly, there was a whole host of issues that came along with being widowed and friend groups. From trying to be set up, to being treated as a lonely spinster, ironically by the same people who sometimes to my face, sometimes not, that I shouldn’t date. I missed out on couple and family events I’m just not invited to anymore.
But male friends have been the most difficult. The hardest one recently was an old friend whom I hadn’t seen or heard from as much as I’d like. I too wondered what I did, if I was somehow too toxic because my life was so messy still. But he came to my aid when I was desperate for help with an unexpected move. He confided in me that his wife was extremely jealous and always convinced he was having affairs. Once my husband died, even though we’ve been long time family friends, suddenly any time he spent with me, talking or texting was seen as proof he was cheating on her. Ooof. It wasn’t like we were constantly in contact before; but it was always a friendship easy to pick up where it left off. Then, after a period of time after my husbands death, the fact I’m still single means I’m enemy number 1. I’m not the only one, and if it’s not a specific woman, it’s someone imagined. It’s hard, because he’s suffering this and other marital problems. It’s hard because suddenly, that friend just seemed to be avoiding me.
Then there was the friend who was text book Nice Guy, and absolutely made me believe we were ride or die friends because of shared history and PTSD. When it became apparent the compassionate friend was not and it was about waiting around for my romantic interest, and he took the things I trusted to tell in confidence and used them to try and cut me down . . . That was unpleasant.
I should have seen it coming. It had all the hallmarks, including his description over his anger at another woman he was interested in wanting to only be friends, and couldn’t understand why she’d “torture” him. Or that he previously stated “off limits” because of my late husband after I tried to clarify if he was asking me on a date (I was seeing someone at the time) or was just a friend thing that sounded like a date. I should have seen it coming when he encouraged me to cry on his shoulder over a breakup. But I didn’t.
Then there are the married men expressing different levels of inappropriate interest. The professional colleagues who I have gotten vibes from. And I was the one that bailed on a friendship after that friend was divorced and his tone shifted in an attempt to flirt.
It’s not as if I wouldn’t date a friend, in fact, that’s the goal, right? It’s that a decent percentage of my male friends weren’t really interested in maintaining a genuine friendship. And I’m dreading now, finding out the others aren’t.
All this was complicated by covid. I had withdrawn from people after my husbands death, and struggled with the seismic shifts in my life. I was just getting a sense of a new life and purpose, and trying to make it into the world and reconnect with friends. In fits and starts, but I was.
Then shut down drove everyone apart. And now the already tattered remnants of those friendships seem to have evaporated. Some people are still afraid to meet up. Many just have a much smaller, closer, familial social group now. And I just don’t always have the getup and go to follow up, to catch up with friends. Not always the internal fortitude to deal with soft rejections. Ok I’m also flirting with depression, which of course makes it harder to actually be social (it’s getting better, but There Are Still Days). Other friendships drifted apart as seemingly just time and space. And some friendships I badly need to follow up on, but have felt too adrift.
I have heard it mentioned in a few different places that many people are finding their old social networks are just not coalescing again after the theoretical worst of Covid. Most affected, it sounds like, are singletons due to people turning towards their immediate families, if you aren’t part of one, well then you get to be alone still. At least two podcasts have looked at this anecdotally.
So it’s like everything else: Covid just makes things worse.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 10:55 PM on February 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
But male friends have been the most difficult. The hardest one recently was an old friend whom I hadn’t seen or heard from as much as I’d like. I too wondered what I did, if I was somehow too toxic because my life was so messy still. But he came to my aid when I was desperate for help with an unexpected move. He confided in me that his wife was extremely jealous and always convinced he was having affairs. Once my husband died, even though we’ve been long time family friends, suddenly any time he spent with me, talking or texting was seen as proof he was cheating on her. Ooof. It wasn’t like we were constantly in contact before; but it was always a friendship easy to pick up where it left off. Then, after a period of time after my husbands death, the fact I’m still single means I’m enemy number 1. I’m not the only one, and if it’s not a specific woman, it’s someone imagined. It’s hard, because he’s suffering this and other marital problems. It’s hard because suddenly, that friend just seemed to be avoiding me.
Then there was the friend who was text book Nice Guy, and absolutely made me believe we were ride or die friends because of shared history and PTSD. When it became apparent the compassionate friend was not and it was about waiting around for my romantic interest, and he took the things I trusted to tell in confidence and used them to try and cut me down . . . That was unpleasant.
I should have seen it coming. It had all the hallmarks, including his description over his anger at another woman he was interested in wanting to only be friends, and couldn’t understand why she’d “torture” him. Or that he previously stated “off limits” because of my late husband after I tried to clarify if he was asking me on a date (I was seeing someone at the time) or was just a friend thing that sounded like a date. I should have seen it coming when he encouraged me to cry on his shoulder over a breakup. But I didn’t.
Then there are the married men expressing different levels of inappropriate interest. The professional colleagues who I have gotten vibes from. And I was the one that bailed on a friendship after that friend was divorced and his tone shifted in an attempt to flirt.
It’s not as if I wouldn’t date a friend, in fact, that’s the goal, right? It’s that a decent percentage of my male friends weren’t really interested in maintaining a genuine friendship. And I’m dreading now, finding out the others aren’t.
All this was complicated by covid. I had withdrawn from people after my husbands death, and struggled with the seismic shifts in my life. I was just getting a sense of a new life and purpose, and trying to make it into the world and reconnect with friends. In fits and starts, but I was.
Then shut down drove everyone apart. And now the already tattered remnants of those friendships seem to have evaporated. Some people are still afraid to meet up. Many just have a much smaller, closer, familial social group now. And I just don’t always have the getup and go to follow up, to catch up with friends. Not always the internal fortitude to deal with soft rejections. Ok I’m also flirting with depression, which of course makes it harder to actually be social (it’s getting better, but There Are Still Days). Other friendships drifted apart as seemingly just time and space. And some friendships I badly need to follow up on, but have felt too adrift.
I have heard it mentioned in a few different places that many people are finding their old social networks are just not coalescing again after the theoretical worst of Covid. Most affected, it sounds like, are singletons due to people turning towards their immediate families, if you aren’t part of one, well then you get to be alone still. At least two podcasts have looked at this anecdotally.
So it’s like everything else: Covid just makes things worse.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 10:55 PM on February 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
On that note, though, I too have struggled with depression and anxiety varying from “todays not so bad” to “I think I shoulda been hospitalized”, and as such had a difficult time replying when someone has checked in. I’ve withdrawn from social networks for both good and not good reasons. So I’m just as guilty as the people I miss if not following up, not responding when someone does. Or even when I do, not having the conversational chops to actually keep it going. And I do wonder, in these covid times, how often that too is the case for the people we wish would talk to us.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 11:10 PM on February 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by [insert clever name here] at 11:10 PM on February 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
"So it’s like everything else: Covid just makes things worse." If you're in a challenging place mentally, the idea of dating can just seem really distant, no matter the circumstances.. especially yours*, and you're a human being. Even if you'd really like to be with someone, it isn't as if your processing time is completely within your control.. I hope someone really patient finds you.
Covid is still a presence, even if people pretend it isn't. I was working last month, and attempted four or even five different venues I'd normally work in: they were all* closed or had odd hours. There were literally 1-2 suitable choices, sometimes none. It was stressful and extremely slow going. Businesses I normally patroned permanently closed. I ended up working in spaces I'd otherwise never visit. It creates a lot of hoops to jump through, or can.
posted by firstdaffodils at 5:27 AM on February 9, 2022
Covid is still a presence, even if people pretend it isn't. I was working last month, and attempted four or even five different venues I'd normally work in: they were all* closed or had odd hours. There were literally 1-2 suitable choices, sometimes none. It was stressful and extremely slow going. Businesses I normally patroned permanently closed. I ended up working in spaces I'd otherwise never visit. It creates a lot of hoops to jump through, or can.
posted by firstdaffodils at 5:27 AM on February 9, 2022
Covid followed by becoming a parent made this video hit way too hard, ouch.
posted by randomnity at 6:52 AM on February 9, 2022
posted by randomnity at 6:52 AM on February 9, 2022
A related article in the Atlantic. [via]
posted by dhruva at 10:12 AM on February 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by dhruva at 10:12 AM on February 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
" Their exchanges have real swing to them, a screwball quality with a punk twist.
But over time, resentments flicker into view. Deep fissures in their belief systems begin to show. They start writing past each other, not hearing each other at all. By the end, the two women have taken every difficult truth they’ve ever learned about the other and fashioned it into a club."
It's good. Thank you.
posted by firstdaffodils at 10:59 AM on February 9, 2022
But over time, resentments flicker into view. Deep fissures in their belief systems begin to show. They start writing past each other, not hearing each other at all. By the end, the two women have taken every difficult truth they’ve ever learned about the other and fashioned it into a club."
It's good. Thank you.
posted by firstdaffodils at 10:59 AM on February 9, 2022
Oh, it's probably not exactly a healthy game, and like everyone else pointed out, has consequences and is probably borne of deep issues that needs examination....
And I get that spoons are extra scarce, and everything is on fire. And weighing the hurt and frustration of a dozen different empty messages vs the deliberate decision to stop trying and give up, part bitter 'well F you too' and part sanity preservation is a difficult decision. And yes, it does mean staring into the bleak possibility that a lot of people, on the surface at least, certainly are failing the "care about me" test, but that's not exactly a new concept to me either.
People leave, it's just what they do. I'm not going to try to hold back the tides forever.
posted by Jacen at 11:26 AM on February 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
And I get that spoons are extra scarce, and everything is on fire. And weighing the hurt and frustration of a dozen different empty messages vs the deliberate decision to stop trying and give up, part bitter 'well F you too' and part sanity preservation is a difficult decision. And yes, it does mean staring into the bleak possibility that a lot of people, on the surface at least, certainly are failing the "care about me" test, but that's not exactly a new concept to me either.
People leave, it's just what they do. I'm not going to try to hold back the tides forever.
posted by Jacen at 11:26 AM on February 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
"People leave, it's just what they do. I'm not going to try to hold back the tides forever."
Sure, but you sound bitter about it. Most people I know have been ditched at some point another, picked on, etc. You can probably just float, or be (perhaps as suggested.)
Sometimes it's easier to be flexible or forgiving. If it's helpful, there are approx. 8bil+ people on the planet, and peoples lives change all the time. Probably some are friends or potential friends. 🤷 cool article.
posted by firstdaffodils at 7:35 PM on February 10, 2022
Sure, but you sound bitter about it. Most people I know have been ditched at some point another, picked on, etc. You can probably just float, or be (perhaps as suggested.)
Sometimes it's easier to be flexible or forgiving. If it's helpful, there are approx. 8bil+ people on the planet, and peoples lives change all the time. Probably some are friends or potential friends. 🤷 cool article.
posted by firstdaffodils at 7:35 PM on February 10, 2022
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Ironically, our kids are still good friends, and the way things are going lately this might require getting back in touch in some form. I’m not looking forward to that at all. Sadness and anger are next-door neighbors.
posted by El Curioso at 4:38 PM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]