“I am tired of being the head of the harem.”
August 19, 2022 8:46 PM Subscribe
Social Media Was a C.E.O.’s Bullhorn, and How He Lured Women Dan Price was applauded for paying a minimum salary of $70,000 at his Seattle company and criticizing corporate greed. The adulation helped to hide and enable his behavior.
CW: sexual assault
There were warning signs about Mr. Price, but Ms. Margis did not see them. When she did a Google search, many of the top results for “Dan Price” were his own social media accounts, along with flattering stories. Buried was the reason he had, for a time several years ago, nearly vanished from public attention: An article I wrote in 2015 for Bloomberg Businessweek revealed that his story about the pay raise had notable holes, and that his former wife had accused him of domestic violence.
Overnight, the attention largely dried up.
There were warning signs about Mr. Price, but Ms. Margis did not see them. When she did a Google search, many of the top results for “Dan Price” were his own social media accounts, along with flattering stories. Buried was the reason he had, for a time several years ago, nearly vanished from public attention: An article I wrote in 2015 for Bloomberg Businessweek revealed that his story about the pay raise had notable holes, and that his former wife had accused him of domestic violence.
Overnight, the attention largely dried up.
I will admit to having been taken in by his relentless social media juggernaut. He was saying the right things! I wanted to believe. The only thing that made my neck hairs stand up was his story about his employees pooling their resources to buy him a Tesla out of gratitude. Like, no they fucking did not, my dude.
Anyway, these revelations are sad and disgusting and while I maybe shouldn’t be surprised, they’re surprising.
posted by la glaneuse at 10:40 PM on August 19, 2022 [30 favorites]
Anyway, these revelations are sad and disgusting and while I maybe shouldn’t be surprised, they’re surprising.
posted by la glaneuse at 10:40 PM on August 19, 2022 [30 favorites]
People'd been vocally warning about this dude for years now and it was shameful every time I saw him get reposted yet again. I know the nature of scale and information flow makes it impossible for everyone to know but to take it coming to a head and him resigning to finally make headlines about it just should not be what it takes to bring down a guy who's been running a faux-progressive smokescreen for himself for years.
posted by JauntyFedora at 12:24 AM on August 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by JauntyFedora at 12:24 AM on August 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
At the time I heard about him and the heavily reported-on salaries as a press release, I immediately thought "why is this rich guy doing this thing? I'll bet he's hiding something", because why else would someone pay a PR firm to disseminate that information to news outlets in addition to paying such high salaries at the base level? Like, maybe just do that and say nothing. If you're recruiting, put that in the ad. It just reeked of "this will be good PR, so they'll ignore or excuse other things".
I genuinely wished to be wrong then, and I was hoping I'd later be embarrassed for having that thought, like maybe I'm the asshole for being that skeptical. Admittedly, I did zero research in any direction, just had a general feeling cause, like, isn't this always the way.
That said, anyone working under him (and anyone like him) deserves that minimum salary and more as we're also collectively and increasingly being asked what price for the freedom, dignity, comfort, or fame under the undeserved billionaires.
posted by revmitcz at 3:37 AM on August 20, 2022 [12 favorites]
I genuinely wished to be wrong then, and I was hoping I'd later be embarrassed for having that thought, like maybe I'm the asshole for being that skeptical. Admittedly, I did zero research in any direction, just had a general feeling cause, like, isn't this always the way.
That said, anyone working under him (and anyone like him) deserves that minimum salary and more as we're also collectively and increasingly being asked what price for the freedom, dignity, comfort, or fame under the undeserved billionaires.
posted by revmitcz at 3:37 AM on August 20, 2022 [12 favorites]
I should have trusted my gut when I saw that mullet...
*shrug* He said all the right things, and all I knew of him was his social media presence. Even as Extremely Online as I try to be, it's difficult to have enough time to thoroughly investigate everyone whose tweets pass my screen.
Plus, I wish I could assume the best about people and not be disappointed so often.
posted by wenestvedt at 3:43 AM on August 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
*shrug* He said all the right things, and all I knew of him was his social media presence. Even as Extremely Online as I try to be, it's difficult to have enough time to thoroughly investigate everyone whose tweets pass my screen.
Plus, I wish I could assume the best about people and not be disappointed so often.
posted by wenestvedt at 3:43 AM on August 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
Anyone who messages anyone who isn't their SO that they should, *have a happy Valentine's day, beautiful!" is a creep. This is a rule.
I will not be taking any questions at this time.
posted by dobbs at 3:47 AM on August 20, 2022 [24 favorites]
I will not be taking any questions at this time.
posted by dobbs at 3:47 AM on August 20, 2022 [24 favorites]
Yahoo news link mirror for those who are NYT averse.
And he got a lot of attention as "progressive" not just because he was paying everyone in his small company $70k - the story was that he did that by cutting his own pay, that when he was due some sort of standard massive CEO raise he instead restructured his contract and the whole company's compensation structure and redistributed the money he would have gotten amongst the employees.
At least that's the version Price pushed on social media. The article notes that there are holes in the story.
posted by soundguy99 at 4:55 AM on August 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
And he got a lot of attention as "progressive" not just because he was paying everyone in his small company $70k - the story was that he did that by cutting his own pay, that when he was due some sort of standard massive CEO raise he instead restructured his contract and the whole company's compensation structure and redistributed the money he would have gotten amongst the employees.
At least that's the version Price pushed on social media. The article notes that there are holes in the story.
posted by soundguy99 at 4:55 AM on August 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
I never could figure out the guy. His big "cut my pay, raise everyone else's pay" was interesting, to say the least. Not to say he wasn't following through, or purely a bullshitter, but everything about it all seemed arbitrary and it never really made much sense. The reactions to the story were all over the place. But I never followed him, and hadn't heard much since the original splash in 2015.
So, looking up the guy, he comes across to me as a loon. Not serial killer level of psychopath, but pretty fucked none the less. The accusations of his ex wife are kinda wacko and date back to before his $70k/yr raise notoriety. Creepy messages are the least of it.
posted by 2N2222 at 5:25 AM on August 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
So, looking up the guy, he comes across to me as a loon. Not serial killer level of psychopath, but pretty fucked none the less. The accusations of his ex wife are kinda wacko and date back to before his $70k/yr raise notoriety. Creepy messages are the least of it.
posted by 2N2222 at 5:25 AM on August 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
And still up in the air: How well did the $70k/yr experiment work? You know, that thing that brought him national attention? There seems no coverage of the effect it's had overall on the business, good or bad. Maybe nobody knows, and those who know aren't talking? The closest I could find was that his employees bought him a Tesla in thanks (?!?!), which just sounds cult-y.
posted by 2N2222 at 5:35 AM on August 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by 2N2222 at 5:35 AM on August 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
Just want to say as a human working in the for-profit business world that if a person lands on the cover of Fast Company or its ilk, I am immediately wary of the person and the company. The cult of personality thing in business is just so gross. We have suffered plenty of harm from it. And nobody ever, ever talks about survivorship bias.
posted by sockshaveholes at 6:16 AM on August 20, 2022 [21 favorites]
posted by sockshaveholes at 6:16 AM on August 20, 2022 [21 favorites]
Oh no! This is so disappointing. I follow him on twitter and have been impressed by his general take on the "nobody wants to work anymore" bs, as well as the $70,000 salary thing.
As some would say: Why men great 'til they gotta be great?
posted by EllaEm at 6:59 AM on August 20, 2022 [8 favorites]
As some would say: Why men great 'til they gotta be great?
posted by EllaEm at 6:59 AM on August 20, 2022 [8 favorites]
From a quick glance at Glass Door, none of the jobs they recruit for look like they would pay less than $70,000 in any case, so most likely the low level catering/cleaning jobs have all been outsourced to subcontractors.
In a 2016 report:
Gravity is a privately held company. Dan Price owns about 67.5 percent of the company, and Lucas Price about 32.5 percent.
Gravity last year processed $10.2 billion in payments, Gravity do not disclose their Per-Transaction Costs but if we assume it is somewhere around 2.5% that is an income of $255 million/year. They have 240 employees.
posted by Lanark at 7:18 AM on August 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
In a 2016 report:
Gravity is a privately held company. Dan Price owns about 67.5 percent of the company, and Lucas Price about 32.5 percent.
Gravity last year processed $10.2 billion in payments, Gravity do not disclose their Per-Transaction Costs but if we assume it is somewhere around 2.5% that is an income of $255 million/year. They have 240 employees.
posted by Lanark at 7:18 AM on August 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
This one was a bit like Louis CK for me, in that I bought in shamefully easily at the onset, heard the whispers about who he really was, looked into it, and finally smelled the stink, then forgot about him and was surprised years later when the world at large was finally catching onto him.
There are so many of these. I'm probably behind on at least a dozen but maybe ahead on a few others, too. Do Jeff Goldblum now.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:30 AM on August 20, 2022 [15 favorites]
There are so many of these. I'm probably behind on at least a dozen but maybe ahead on a few others, too. Do Jeff Goldblum now.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:30 AM on August 20, 2022 [15 favorites]
This is really disappointing. I think I am a sucker for these kinds of people - I want to believe, and I could, in some world, see myself as a boss instituting policies I personally believe in and higher, fair wages at the expense of my own salary are one of them. And I recall in the decade leading up, there seemed to be a small movement of companies trying out the model of paying employees well above the market rate for those jobs, often making the news. So sure- this might be a somewhat dramatic example. But it wasn’t crazy.
Here is the rough part about the story- I would not doubt he believes in those policies. The story DOES outline that he also had his hand in PR, but I can imagine someone both believing in what they are doing and promoting their actions. But I bet it just emboldened him with women, giving him the moral “but I’m a Good Guy” internal rationalization. Its gross and I would for once love to not have someone like this turn out to be a shitty man.
But as I said, I seem to be a sucker for people like this. I often conclude I’m just incredibly naive and have been shocked by men who have acted to take advantage of women in both sexual and non-sexual contexts. On my worst days, I wonder if women aren’t just groomed to feel safe around men just so men can take advantage, and the system where even men who don’t support those systems and culture. And I wonder as a woman, if my only two choices in this life are to be niave and taken advantage of, or to become a bitter, spiteful women who distrusts all men. Christ, that’s a shitty choice to have to make.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 8:10 AM on August 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
Here is the rough part about the story- I would not doubt he believes in those policies. The story DOES outline that he also had his hand in PR, but I can imagine someone both believing in what they are doing and promoting their actions. But I bet it just emboldened him with women, giving him the moral “but I’m a Good Guy” internal rationalization. Its gross and I would for once love to not have someone like this turn out to be a shitty man.
But as I said, I seem to be a sucker for people like this. I often conclude I’m just incredibly naive and have been shocked by men who have acted to take advantage of women in both sexual and non-sexual contexts. On my worst days, I wonder if women aren’t just groomed to feel safe around men just so men can take advantage, and the system where even men who don’t support those systems and culture. And I wonder as a woman, if my only two choices in this life are to be niave and taken advantage of, or to become a bitter, spiteful women who distrusts all men. Christ, that’s a shitty choice to have to make.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 8:10 AM on August 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
Two years ago on this site I warned this guy was a bag of shitty hit air and a lot of people chose to excuse it. Not great!
posted by adrianhon at 8:21 AM on August 20, 2022 [18 favorites]
posted by adrianhon at 8:21 AM on August 20, 2022 [18 favorites]
Many CEOs are narcissists because it helps build the kind of self confidence you need to talk to investors and press. Most people who have glowing press coverage and social media posts about them as individuals are also narcissists, because humble people will instead push for positive coverage about the work they are doing or causes they care about. There are plenty of well meaning and effective narcissists, but you can't really trust public narratives about them.
"Tech CEO pays workers a decent salary without taking a massive salary for themselves" is really not that exciting of a story, so it would have only become popular if someone like the CEO was pushing it heavily. There are probably hundreds of small tech company CEOs that do the same thing, but you don't hear about them because those CEOs are too busy doing tech and business things to bother with pointless personal PR.
There are plenty of small companies that are run well and don't exploit their workers (more than is inherently built into capitalism) but you are not going to hear about them in national media. Any public and popular narrative of "this person is a really Good Guy" needs to be looked at with suspicion if it's not coming from multiple independent and unbiased sources.
posted by JZig at 8:25 AM on August 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
"Tech CEO pays workers a decent salary without taking a massive salary for themselves" is really not that exciting of a story, so it would have only become popular if someone like the CEO was pushing it heavily. There are probably hundreds of small tech company CEOs that do the same thing, but you don't hear about them because those CEOs are too busy doing tech and business things to bother with pointless personal PR.
There are plenty of small companies that are run well and don't exploit their workers (more than is inherently built into capitalism) but you are not going to hear about them in national media. Any public and popular narrative of "this person is a really Good Guy" needs to be looked at with suspicion if it's not coming from multiple independent and unbiased sources.
posted by JZig at 8:25 AM on August 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
Basically the good people of the world are engaged in doing good. The narcissists of the world are hosting podcasts. Kidding! (sorta) . . .
posted by flamk at 8:39 AM on August 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by flamk at 8:39 AM on August 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Sigh.
Reminder that sometimes really shitty people have a good idea (or even two!).
To coin a phrase, it should be okay to love the sin but cancel the sinner (for very non-standard meanings of the word "sin").
posted by cstross at 9:09 AM on August 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Reminder that sometimes really shitty people have a good idea (or even two!).
To coin a phrase, it should be okay to love the sin but cancel the sinner (for very non-standard meanings of the word "sin").
posted by cstross at 9:09 AM on August 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
It's disappointing this guy turned out to be a shitheel, but the editorial choice to lay out this article with his generally progressive, anti-work, anti-income-inequality statements (and the number of likes they got) juxtaposed with the narrative of his monstrous behavior sure feels to me like a deliberate measure to discredit those ideas, rather than just discrediting the awful person expressing them. Essentially, the implied narrative of the whole piece is "anybody expressing ideas like this is just doing it to draw attention away from their own shittiness" and while the article provides lots of support for this particular dude being a shitheel, it's just anecdata substituting for data as far as that implied narrative goes.
But it's the NYT, so somehow I'm not surprised.
posted by mstokes650 at 9:15 AM on August 20, 2022 [23 favorites]
But it's the NYT, so somehow I'm not surprised.
posted by mstokes650 at 9:15 AM on August 20, 2022 [23 favorites]
Essentially, the implied narrative of the whole piece is "anybody expressing ideas like this is just doing it to draw attention away from their own shittiness" and while the article provides lots of support for this particular dude being a shitheel, it's just anecdata substituting for data as far as that implied narrative goes.
I don't read it that way at all. The article makes a pretty convincing case that the social capital he gained by his statements on social media was instrumental in attracting the women he later assaulted. How could you write this article without that context?
posted by ssg at 9:50 AM on August 20, 2022 [13 favorites]
I don't read it that way at all. The article makes a pretty convincing case that the social capital he gained by his statements on social media was instrumental in attracting the women he later assaulted. How could you write this article without that context?
posted by ssg at 9:50 AM on August 20, 2022 [13 favorites]
The article makes a pretty convincing case that the social capital he gained by his statements on social media was instrumental in attracting the women he later assaulted. How could you write this article without that context?
The social capital he gained on social media could've come from any source. There are tons of ways to build social capital on social media. He could've just been posting pictures of kittens, or DIY life hacks, or thirst-trap photos, or toxic positivity mindfulness/wellness stuff, or any of a zillion other things. The content of his social media posts isn't really important or necessary to the story about the guy and his actions. So why feature that content so prominently in the article?
posted by mstokes650 at 10:21 AM on August 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
The social capital he gained on social media could've come from any source. There are tons of ways to build social capital on social media. He could've just been posting pictures of kittens, or DIY life hacks, or thirst-trap photos, or toxic positivity mindfulness/wellness stuff, or any of a zillion other things. The content of his social media posts isn't really important or necessary to the story about the guy and his actions. So why feature that content so prominently in the article?
posted by mstokes650 at 10:21 AM on August 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Essentially, the implied narrative of the whole piece is "anybody expressing ideas like this is just doing it to draw attention away from their own shittiness"
Would such an implied narrative be wrong in this case?
posted by 2N2222 at 10:35 AM on August 20, 2022
Would such an implied narrative be wrong in this case?
posted by 2N2222 at 10:35 AM on August 20, 2022
Would such an implied narrative be wrong in this case?
Did you bother to read the rest of the sentence I wrote?
posted by mstokes650 at 10:41 AM on August 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
Did you bother to read the rest of the sentence I wrote?
posted by mstokes650 at 10:41 AM on August 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
The content of his social media posts isn't really important or necessary to the story about the guy and his actions. So why feature that content so prominently in the article?
I can't agree. Dan Price's influence is based on content that positions him as socially progressive, anti-racist, anti-misogynist, and broadly in favor equity, fairness, and transparency. To discover that he treats women close to him unfairly, cruelly, or even violently? And does so in secret? That's exactly relevant and necessary. It opens up of a whole host of issues society has always been interested in - what makes a good leader, and how to weigh the contradictory words and actions of powerful people. Not to mention that it is a prime example of the ongoing reckoning around women's rights.
This is not a great comparison, because Dan Price is absolutely not Thomas Jefferson, but: people are complicated and we are much, much, MUCH better off as a nation when we can hold the truth of the brilliance of the Declaration of Independence and the horror of Sally Hemmings both. That's what the NYT writer is trying to do in this piece.
posted by minervous at 10:43 AM on August 20, 2022 [18 favorites]
I can't agree. Dan Price's influence is based on content that positions him as socially progressive, anti-racist, anti-misogynist, and broadly in favor equity, fairness, and transparency. To discover that he treats women close to him unfairly, cruelly, or even violently? And does so in secret? That's exactly relevant and necessary. It opens up of a whole host of issues society has always been interested in - what makes a good leader, and how to weigh the contradictory words and actions of powerful people. Not to mention that it is a prime example of the ongoing reckoning around women's rights.
This is not a great comparison, because Dan Price is absolutely not Thomas Jefferson, but: people are complicated and we are much, much, MUCH better off as a nation when we can hold the truth of the brilliance of the Declaration of Independence and the horror of Sally Hemmings both. That's what the NYT writer is trying to do in this piece.
posted by minervous at 10:43 AM on August 20, 2022 [18 favorites]
At various times in my life, transitioning from sexy girl child to sexy college coed to sexy graphic designer to sexy architect to sexy mother of one, I have let men think that I might be available/interested in their careers/open to chatting when what I was actually looking for was career advice, mentorship, networking, an opportunity. Unfortunately, it often felt really, really important that it seem more like sexy career advice, sexy mentorship, sexy networking, sexxxxy opportunities. It's pretty exhausting to be so sexy for so long and just try to have a normal life, use your good education to make enough money to live on so that you don't literally have to sell your sexy body in order to eat food and have regular things. The capitalist system seems to reward raging narcissists who are white and male first of all and then everyone else can just get in line behind them. Why do so many women end up interacting with these men? Because they shove themselves to the front of the line. And as a society we abet and enable that and are complicit in looking the other way. My point is: this guy sucks. $70k seems like a regular salary that should be offered to many, many people. The costs of a Tesla varies but let's say it's $45,000. If I was making $70k/year, with the price of everything, I'd be comfortable donating to a gift for my boss (if pressured) maybe $100. But, realistically, $10-$25 dollars for a group gift. If I was pressured to give hard, it would be $100 max. So, 450 employees gave $100 to the group gift? Who organized that? What a total pain in the ass that would be. It's so obviously a weird, weird lie. Fuck that guy. I hope he ends up in jail for being an absolute dumbass and a terror to women.
posted by amanda at 12:37 PM on August 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by amanda at 12:37 PM on August 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
Wikipedia says that Gravity Payments employs 240 people. So that’s $187.50 per employee for a basic model Tesla. In terms of an annual salary, it’s small potatoes. But some of those employees will be double-income, no kids. Some will be single with roommates. Some will be the primary wage earner with children. Median house price in Seattle is high. Most people have student loans. In terms of a monthly budget, that just seems like a lot to me. That 70k is also pre-tax income. Maybe I’m just too stingy. I just can’t imagine why one would do that. The necessity of it? I just can’t square it. Don’t buy your boss a Tesla. He does not deserve it. He’ll just use it to trap women on bad dates and choke them.
posted by amanda at 1:07 PM on August 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by amanda at 1:07 PM on August 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
While I don’t agree with the interpretation that the author is trying to conflate progressive ideas to bad behavior, I do feel like something is off too, off or motivated.
Like I wish the author had explained this: “He had his staff compile a long dossier on perceived threats, including his former wife, brother and me, according to Mr. Pirkle and three others.” (Emphasis mine)
Why? Was it just in response to the author inquiring about the women for this article? Does she have a prior history with Price? Seeing her as part of the story without a cursory explanation left me wondering what her motivations might be.
And I had some concern about the LinkedIn quote at the beginning of the article. I don’t know the original context, but its placement in the article seems to suggest he was planning to or subconsciously admitting to victimizing these women. But I think it more suggests we should believe victims because the price of being wrong is too high; even if it comes at the cost of false accusations.
In no way am I suggesting that I don’t believe Price’s actions outlined in the article- there is a preponderance of women who have had these problems with him going back a long time. Rather, these anomalies had me questioning the author’s motivation and therefore credibility of the claims she outlined. Which is a huge disservice, because he clearly IS this asshole and has a history of abusive, violent behavior towards women.
Perhaps that is similar to what you are sensing here, mstokes650?
posted by [insert clever name here] at 1:24 PM on August 20, 2022
Like I wish the author had explained this: “He had his staff compile a long dossier on perceived threats, including his former wife, brother and me, according to Mr. Pirkle and three others.” (Emphasis mine)
Why? Was it just in response to the author inquiring about the women for this article? Does she have a prior history with Price? Seeing her as part of the story without a cursory explanation left me wondering what her motivations might be.
And I had some concern about the LinkedIn quote at the beginning of the article. I don’t know the original context, but its placement in the article seems to suggest he was planning to or subconsciously admitting to victimizing these women. But I think it more suggests we should believe victims because the price of being wrong is too high; even if it comes at the cost of false accusations.
In no way am I suggesting that I don’t believe Price’s actions outlined in the article- there is a preponderance of women who have had these problems with him going back a long time. Rather, these anomalies had me questioning the author’s motivation and therefore credibility of the claims she outlined. Which is a huge disservice, because he clearly IS this asshole and has a history of abusive, violent behavior towards women.
Perhaps that is similar to what you are sensing here, mstokes650?
posted by [insert clever name here] at 1:24 PM on August 20, 2022
Does she have a prior history with Price? Yes, she makes this crystal clear early in the article:
“Buried was the reason he had, for a time several years ago, nearly vanished from public attention: An article I wrote in 2015 for Bloomberg Businessweek revealed that his story about the pay raise had notable holes, and that his former wife had accused him of domestic violence.”
This thread is incredibly depressing and disappointing.
posted by adrianhon at 2:12 PM on August 20, 2022 [19 favorites]
“Buried was the reason he had, for a time several years ago, nearly vanished from public attention: An article I wrote in 2015 for Bloomberg Businessweek revealed that his story about the pay raise had notable holes, and that his former wife had accused him of domestic violence.”
This thread is incredibly depressing and disappointing.
posted by adrianhon at 2:12 PM on August 20, 2022 [19 favorites]
What site am I on, 4chan? We’re questioning the credibility of the sources accusing Price mentioned in the NYT? Fucking unbelievable.
posted by adrianhon at 2:29 PM on August 20, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by adrianhon at 2:29 PM on August 20, 2022 [14 favorites]
This is another reason why he wrapped himself in a cloak of progressivism. His natural enemies would become allies. I’ve seen conspiracies about this being a billionaire smear campaign before this article.
posted by Selena777 at 2:49 PM on August 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Selena777 at 2:49 PM on August 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
This kind of guy is a type and reading this article reminds me of others in his flock: Bill Cosby, Hugo Schwyzer, Jimmy Savile, Jian Ghomeshi , etc. At the outset all known and praised for their progressivism, slowly building up a following, creating an existence upon which rested the hopes of activists in their thrall, each step building an insular world in which they could do what they really wanted, what they deserved for all the goodness they bestowed: behave like complete fucking monsters towards the vulnerable to get a sweet hit of petty power, release some rage.
There are always little whispers and open secrets about these guys but few do anything aside from make excuses or run interference when the whispers get too loud. This can only go on for so long and, in time, they do enough harm to enough people that the whispers become sufficiently noisy to notify larger groups outside of their influence. And the kind hearted folks who praised them all along and mistakenly imagined these assholes as role models? Shock, denial, rationalizing, anger towards anyone but the perpetrator.
As far as any comments such as "take the good with the bad" or "he really supported workers, this is a grey area":
1. The whole "Best CEO ever making only 70k and giving people raises" schtick: his brother (another shareholder) was already suing Dan Price for the outrageous salary set as a start-up CEO (about $1M iirc, industry standard is closer to $300k plus options). This was a calculated PR move and he'd already taken plenty from the banana stand when he announced. The man owns a yacht!
2. $70k in Seattle is an ok salary in FinTech but other local industry giants like AWS, Microsoft and Boeing were likely offering much better compensation for similar roles. (Please correct if my impression here is wrong).
3. Those super awesome tweets and posts? Ghost written by a journalist, not by Dan Price. And not just any journalist! Mike Rosenberg, a kindred spirit who also likes harassing women.
In a previous thread about a famous abuser, someone pointed out that a difficult thing to confront is that men who harm women can be beloved people. They can be fun to have a beer with or great conversationalists. They can engage in acts of (conspicuous) generosity. They can be your good buddy who you would never imagine could do such a thing. And they can do/be all of this while lying through their teeth, silencing critics, controlling the narrative and using their laundered reputation as a lure for kind hearted people. For decades.
posted by JaneTheGood at 3:54 PM on August 20, 2022 [29 favorites]
There are always little whispers and open secrets about these guys but few do anything aside from make excuses or run interference when the whispers get too loud. This can only go on for so long and, in time, they do enough harm to enough people that the whispers become sufficiently noisy to notify larger groups outside of their influence. And the kind hearted folks who praised them all along and mistakenly imagined these assholes as role models? Shock, denial, rationalizing, anger towards anyone but the perpetrator.
As far as any comments such as "take the good with the bad" or "he really supported workers, this is a grey area":
1. The whole "Best CEO ever making only 70k and giving people raises" schtick: his brother (another shareholder) was already suing Dan Price for the outrageous salary set as a start-up CEO (about $1M iirc, industry standard is closer to $300k plus options). This was a calculated PR move and he'd already taken plenty from the banana stand when he announced. The man owns a yacht!
2. $70k in Seattle is an ok salary in FinTech but other local industry giants like AWS, Microsoft and Boeing were likely offering much better compensation for similar roles. (Please correct if my impression here is wrong).
3. Those super awesome tweets and posts? Ghost written by a journalist, not by Dan Price. And not just any journalist! Mike Rosenberg, a kindred spirit who also likes harassing women.
In a previous thread about a famous abuser, someone pointed out that a difficult thing to confront is that men who harm women can be beloved people. They can be fun to have a beer with or great conversationalists. They can engage in acts of (conspicuous) generosity. They can be your good buddy who you would never imagine could do such a thing. And they can do/be all of this while lying through their teeth, silencing critics, controlling the narrative and using their laundered reputation as a lure for kind hearted people. For decades.
posted by JaneTheGood at 3:54 PM on August 20, 2022 [29 favorites]
I do feel like something is off too, off or motivated.
Yeah. Motivated. I can’t imagine what could possibly motivate a person who sees again and again this kind of terrible behavior, the avarice, the unimaginable wealth, the abuse of power, the misogyny, the rot at the heart of a completely unbalanced system. What ever could motivate such a person? I wonder if it’s something….sexy.
posted by amanda at 4:26 PM on August 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Yeah. Motivated. I can’t imagine what could possibly motivate a person who sees again and again this kind of terrible behavior, the avarice, the unimaginable wealth, the abuse of power, the misogyny, the rot at the heart of a completely unbalanced system. What ever could motivate such a person? I wonder if it’s something….sexy.
posted by amanda at 4:26 PM on August 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Price was not a socialist, and in fact told the papers that “a reason he urges other business owners to follow his lead on pay is to avoid more government regulation.” He was inspired not by Marx but by 19th century Baptist preacher Russell Conwell, who “fused Christianisty and capitalism” and said the pursuit of riches was a “godly duty” and “to make money honestly is to preach the Gospel.”Current Affairs asks If The “Only Moral CEO” Is an Abusive Narcissist, What Does That Say About Capitalism?posted by Bottlecap at 4:52 PM on August 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
> “.. 2. $70k in Seattle is an ok salary in FinTech…”
But that was supposed to be the starting wage for everyone at the company.
I don’t give a rats-arse if the guy is a $#!t heel. If he committed a crime, then let him face justice.
What I care about is the idea i first heard expressed by this person: if you don’t make at least 70k/yr then every extra dollar is a trade-off. And after 70k, an extra dollar doesn’t have the same impact on your quality of life— an extra vacation or more clothes or whatever. The number itself doesn’t really matter. Make it 65k or 95k. What I care about is a clear and simple expression of lower income and quality of life.
I hope someone else picks up the banner. I’ll not like having to asterisk discussions with others about inequality with this guy’s (alleged? I don’t have NYT subscription) criminal behavior.
posted by xtian at 5:44 AM on August 21, 2022
But that was supposed to be the starting wage for everyone at the company.
I don’t give a rats-arse if the guy is a $#!t heel. If he committed a crime, then let him face justice.
What I care about is the idea i first heard expressed by this person: if you don’t make at least 70k/yr then every extra dollar is a trade-off. And after 70k, an extra dollar doesn’t have the same impact on your quality of life— an extra vacation or more clothes or whatever. The number itself doesn’t really matter. Make it 65k or 95k. What I care about is a clear and simple expression of lower income and quality of life.
I hope someone else picks up the banner. I’ll not like having to asterisk discussions with others about inequality with this guy’s (alleged? I don’t have NYT subscription) criminal behavior.
posted by xtian at 5:44 AM on August 21, 2022
Many, many people who are not CEOs and do not have histories of sexual violence or coercion have expressed such ideas. In fact, one of the smaller but still notable issues with Price’s social media messaging has been how he (or his ghostwriter) made it seem like these were his original ideas, completely failing to direct people to their sources or to amplify other voices.
posted by eviemath at 6:43 AM on August 21, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 6:43 AM on August 21, 2022 [4 favorites]
The movement for fair and equal pay, and basic minimum income, does not rely on Dan Price or any single individual - and it never has.
posted by adrianhon at 6:50 AM on August 21, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by adrianhon at 6:50 AM on August 21, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'm so disappointed. Mostly in myself for falling for this abuser's narrative for so long, even when there were apparently accusations already public. Abuse of power comes as no surprise
posted by mon_petit_ordinateur at 9:26 AM on August 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by mon_petit_ordinateur at 9:26 AM on August 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
Moral CEO is probably an oxymoron. Capitalism does not breed good morals. It’s fundamental base is the exploitation of people. Gifts, like $70K starting salaries, always come with a price. That’s business!
posted by njohnson23 at 9:46 AM on August 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by njohnson23 at 9:46 AM on August 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
The fantasy that our problems could be solved if only a member of the powerful elite, a 1%er or a .1%er would do the right thing, is appealing. But I think history is pretty clear: power concedes nothing without a demand, it never did and it never will.
posted by latkes at 9:49 AM on August 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by latkes at 9:49 AM on August 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
Really? I think it’s appalling and I’m not even that radical. We didn’t elect these people.
posted by Selena777 at 4:10 PM on August 21, 2022
posted by Selena777 at 4:10 PM on August 21, 2022
> Do Jeff Goldblum now.
Aw dang, really? Something beyond the "hey ladies" tone of his TV show?
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:06 PM on August 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
Aw dang, really? Something beyond the "hey ladies" tone of his TV show?
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:06 PM on August 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
Aw dang, really? Something beyond the "hey ladies" tone of his TV show?
Without getting too in the weeds here, there have been rumors about Goldblum and Bill Murray acting inappropriately for years. In a similar way that Price's progressive smokescreen protected him, the two of them seem to be protected by acting kinda weird all the time to everyone, so that their more unacceptable behavior gets bundled up with that.
posted by JauntyFedora at 5:07 PM on August 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
Without getting too in the weeds here, there have been rumors about Goldblum and Bill Murray acting inappropriately for years. In a similar way that Price's progressive smokescreen protected him, the two of them seem to be protected by acting kinda weird all the time to everyone, so that their more unacceptable behavior gets bundled up with that.
posted by JauntyFedora at 5:07 PM on August 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
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posted by gentlyepigrams at 9:43 PM on August 19, 2022 [3 favorites]