Misogyny and gun violence
August 25, 2022 8:53 AM Subscribe
"There’s a large piece missing to many of the conversations around gun violence ... We are not sufficiently talking about the role that misogyny — and, often, its collision with white supremacy — plays in gun violence."
CW: domestic violence, guns
George Zimmerman, murderer of Trayvon Martin, has been investigated three times for domestic abuse: one dropped for “lack of evidence”, two others the victims recanted.
posted by aiq at 9:50 AM on August 25, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by aiq at 9:50 AM on August 25, 2022 [9 favorites]
There’s another aspect of the collision of gun ownership and white supremacy we ought to add to the conversation:
Historical rates of enslavement predict modern rates of American gun ownershipposted by jamjam at 10:09 AM on August 25, 2022 [20 favorites]
The higher percentage of enslaved people that a U.S. county counted among its residents in 1860, the more guns its residents have in the present, according to a new analysis by researchers exploring why Americans’ feelings about guns differ so much from people around the globe.
More than 45% of the world’s civilian-owned firearms are in the United States, where just 5 percent of the world’s people live. This disparity may have something to do with the way the majority of American gun owners view gun ownership.
“Gun culture is one case where American Exceptionalism really is true,” says Nick Buttrick, a University of Wisconsin–Madison professor of psychology. “We are really radically different even from countries like Canada or Australia, places that have similar cultural roots.”
I figure that it's more that the other 31.8% don't have reported histories of domestic violence.
Yup. Or that their particular history of abuse was against women who didn’t happen to be close to them.
Scratch a mass shooter and you’ll find a self-pitying misogynist, almost every time.
To see how much our society values male feelings over female lives, you need look no further than gun marketing and the profits it generates.
Happiness Masculinity is a warm gun.
posted by armeowda at 10:15 AM on August 25, 2022 [13 favorites]
Yup. Or that their particular history of abuse was against women who didn’t happen to be close to them.
Scratch a mass shooter and you’ll find a self-pitying misogynist, almost every time.
To see how much our society values male feelings over female lives, you need look no further than gun marketing and the profits it generates.
posted by armeowda at 10:15 AM on August 25, 2022 [13 favorites]
I have no doubt that misogyny and white supremacy culture are at the root of our current mass- violence epidemic but then what? The article discusses electoral strategies but also the limitations of that. It closes with saying we should talk to our kids about misogyny. Does anyone really think that's enough? I feel like there's a missing link about how we organize with people who are outside of our personal social spheres because just saying, "it's misogyny" doesn't stop the gun violence or change that widespread ideology.
posted by latkes at 10:19 AM on August 25, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by latkes at 10:19 AM on August 25, 2022 [6 favorites]
Somewhat related: "Suicide by Mass Murder" CW: suicide
Previously here
posted by shenkerism at 10:20 AM on August 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
Previously here
posted by shenkerism at 10:20 AM on August 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
One of the rationales given for Canada's effective ban on handguns* was harm reduction for women.
*: it's complicated: the Canadian federal government controls import permits of guns. Recently, they announced they were not issuing new permits, and all existing permits were set to expire. Simultaneously, they stopped issuing transfer licences for the sale of handguns inside Canada. Portapique was a wake-up call to the government, and they've only faced pushback from a small sector of society.
posted by scruss at 10:56 AM on August 25, 2022 [10 favorites]
*: it's complicated: the Canadian federal government controls import permits of guns. Recently, they announced they were not issuing new permits, and all existing permits were set to expire. Simultaneously, they stopped issuing transfer licences for the sale of handguns inside Canada. Portapique was a wake-up call to the government, and they've only faced pushback from a small sector of society.
posted by scruss at 10:56 AM on August 25, 2022 [10 favorites]
I feel like there's a missing link about how we organize with people who are outside of our personal social spheres because just saying, "it's misogyny" doesn't stop the gun violence or change that widespread ideology.
Yes. I’m from a police family and I live in a red state. Two obstacles I see from here:
1. Yes, many families with sons are taking the time to teach those sons how to deal with disappointment and rejection in healthy ways. That said, I have my suspicions that the bigger and less-secure a given family’s arsenal is, the less likely those conversations are to happen. So, it often comes out after a mass shooting that the perpetrator had easy access to guns, a relentless persecution complex, and a family who knew about both but did nothing.
2. Law enforcement has a habit of dismissing women who report any kind of male violence — and a notable domestic violence problem among its own. We can’t reasonably expect a guy to take intimate partner abuse seriously when it’s his main extracurricular. So, it almost invariably comes out after a mass shooting that the perpetrator had a history of violence against women, but also that it didn’t keep him off the streets or stop him from obtaining a gun, often legally. (When the weapon was obtained illegally, it can often be traced back to a “legal” gun owner who, either through carelessness or money-hunger, didn’t particularly worry about who got hold of it.)
And…I dunno the answer either. These people aren’t going to take advice from me, because I have no children nor guns of my own. But maybe they’ll listen to other parents of sons — especially dads. Maybe they’ll listen to people who know a lot about guns, and who have exactly the right accent/facial hair. (…Beau of the Fifth Column?)
Meanwhile, I’ll keep supporting candidates who think women should have more rights than guns do.
posted by armeowda at 11:16 AM on August 25, 2022 [34 favorites]
Yes. I’m from a police family and I live in a red state. Two obstacles I see from here:
1. Yes, many families with sons are taking the time to teach those sons how to deal with disappointment and rejection in healthy ways. That said, I have my suspicions that the bigger and less-secure a given family’s arsenal is, the less likely those conversations are to happen. So, it often comes out after a mass shooting that the perpetrator had easy access to guns, a relentless persecution complex, and a family who knew about both but did nothing.
2. Law enforcement has a habit of dismissing women who report any kind of male violence — and a notable domestic violence problem among its own. We can’t reasonably expect a guy to take intimate partner abuse seriously when it’s his main extracurricular. So, it almost invariably comes out after a mass shooting that the perpetrator had a history of violence against women, but also that it didn’t keep him off the streets or stop him from obtaining a gun, often legally. (When the weapon was obtained illegally, it can often be traced back to a “legal” gun owner who, either through carelessness or money-hunger, didn’t particularly worry about who got hold of it.)
And…I dunno the answer either. These people aren’t going to take advice from me, because I have no children nor guns of my own. But maybe they’ll listen to other parents of sons — especially dads. Maybe they’ll listen to people who know a lot about guns, and who have exactly the right accent/facial hair. (…Beau of the Fifth Column?)
Meanwhile, I’ll keep supporting candidates who think women should have more rights than guns do.
posted by armeowda at 11:16 AM on August 25, 2022 [34 favorites]
jamjam: you're right.
Since there is high crime in the South, often in poor areas, you just cannot get them to look any closer or think any harder about what's going on. They see what they see and that's good enough for them. The gun is closer than the police could ever be, they say.
posted by Countess Elena at 12:34 PM on August 25, 2022 [10 favorites]
“The extent to which people feel unsafe only predicts gun ownership in counties in the South, where the more unsafe people feel, the more likely they are to own a gun,” Buttrick says. “If you look in areas that didn't have any slaves in the 1860s, whether people feel unsafe there today does not predict today’s county-level gun ownership.”In the South, white people tend to see the local quantity of black people as a proxy for crime rates. Even white people who honestly do not think of themselves as racist just assume this: blackness means poverty and poverty means crime (unless it's an idealized kind of country poverty that white people supposedly used to have, but leave aside).
Since there is high crime in the South, often in poor areas, you just cannot get them to look any closer or think any harder about what's going on. They see what they see and that's good enough for them. The gun is closer than the police could ever be, they say.
posted by Countess Elena at 12:34 PM on August 25, 2022 [10 favorites]
The gun is closer than the police could ever be, they say.
This bolsters my theory that no matter where you live, geographically, your local Nextdoor page is in the South. I'm in a major northern city but if I had a dime for every time I've seen this sentiment on a post about someone's lost parakeet (or its sister "this city is falling apart I'm leaving also taxes and the mayor and you can't even say truths anymore because people are TOO WOKE" ugh)...I could afford to buy a condo here, lol.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 1:37 PM on August 25, 2022 [11 favorites]
This bolsters my theory that no matter where you live, geographically, your local Nextdoor page is in the South. I'm in a major northern city but if I had a dime for every time I've seen this sentiment on a post about someone's lost parakeet (or its sister "this city is falling apart I'm leaving also taxes and the mayor and you can't even say truths anymore because people are TOO WOKE" ugh)...I could afford to buy a condo here, lol.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 1:37 PM on August 25, 2022 [11 favorites]
If we take away guns from domestic abusers, we would disarm 40% of the police.
As the National Center for Women and Policing noted in a heavily footnoted information sheet, "Two studies have found that at least 40 percent of police officer families experience domestic violence, in contrast to 10 percent of families in the general population.
posted by AlSweigart at 1:55 PM on August 25, 2022 [18 favorites]
As the National Center for Women and Policing noted in a heavily footnoted information sheet, "Two studies have found that at least 40 percent of police officer families experience domestic violence, in contrast to 10 percent of families in the general population.
posted by AlSweigart at 1:55 PM on August 25, 2022 [18 favorites]
If we take away guns from domestic abusers, we would disarm 40% of the police.
you say that likes its a bad thing?? ;)
posted by supermedusa at 2:10 PM on August 25, 2022 [21 favorites]
you say that likes its a bad thing?? ;)
posted by supermedusa at 2:10 PM on August 25, 2022 [21 favorites]
...gun violence was the No. 1 cause of death for children in 2020.Christ, I knew it was bad, but I didn't know it was quite that bad.
I think it's asking a little much of a journalist to be able to tell us the one surefire way to solve this incredibly wide-ranging and complex social problem within the confines of a 4,000-word article. With an issue this pervasive, in a culture where a huge number of people refuse to even believe that the problem actually exists, just laying the matter out clearly and assembling the data and testimony to back it up is a good and valuable thing.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:17 PM on August 25, 2022 [9 favorites]
I have no problem with the correlation of misogyny with guns means more death. But, am I too cynical in thinking that misogyny is so common and especially among young men navigating the transition from boy to adult man as to be almost meaningless? The Uvalde murderer had threatened rape against the young women he befriended online who weren’t interested in going further. I recall at least one reported it on the platform but the other thought it was normal and probably not serious. That’s a young woman who is used to a young man’s anger and idle threats of sexual violence. It’s just a ‘thing they do,’ ya’ know?
It’s like violent video games may be a commonality but that just as much due to how many men love to play violent video games.
So, yes, talk to your young people but it’s most expedient to just take away the guns.
posted by amanda at 10:44 PM on August 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
It’s like violent video games may be a commonality but that just as much due to how many men love to play violent video games.
So, yes, talk to your young people but it’s most expedient to just take away the guns.
posted by amanda at 10:44 PM on August 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
[A]m I too cynical in thinking that misogyny is so common and especially among young men navigating the transition from boy to adult man as to be almost meaningless?
...It’s like violent video games may be a commonality but that just as much due to how many men love to play violent video games.
If anything, this says "boys will be boys" which is a great excuse for letting misogynistic culture train up each next generation. But I think I agree with you -- the whole system is harmed by misogynistic culture, not just those who experience mass shootings and domestic violence.
Violent games were blamed for many things, they were the 1990s edition of "Satanic Panic" but that's a diversion. Instead video game play is play where an outlet for feelings, especially anger, is an outlet rather than an amplifier.
I say that in the sense that games give you somewhere to play and to work through the feelings that misogynistic culture says are feminine and weak. We all have feelings, but misogynistic culture says that men can't be weak.
Moreover, misogynistic culture denies men practise at these everyday tasks: acknowledging feelings, negotiating with fellow human beings and accepting compromise. It leads to men have much less agency in their lives and less time feeling that they're 'on top' like men should be. (If you don't win, how manly are you?)
The win-all manliness is jarring against a country that's changing: education is expensive to get high-paying jobs for winning the USA Dream; more non-manly people are being boosted up the system the way this authentic manly person should be; he can't ask for help, that's unmanly; there's much less agency as an adult than misogynistic culture promises and the fall-back tool is physicality and (manly) brute force. Or, with the second amendment, brute force of a gun.
Yes, please take away the guns -- but what goes in their place? Maybe swap them guns for actually agency in community and for being able to contribute and have an impact in the world around you?
Let's go back to games: online multiplayer and messageboards connected with the games sometimes devolve into mob behaviour, acting like they've an IQ of the thickest person divided by the size of the mob. Sometimes the mob is forget-yourself catharsis, and sometimes the mob is forget-consequences catharsis, but it's a social place to play through those feelings -- with people often as aggrieved as you are at The State Of The World.
latkes: The article discusses electoral strategies but also the limitations of that. It closes with saying we should talk to our kids about misogyny. Does anyone really think that's enough? I feel like there's a missing link about how we organize with people who are outside of our personal social spheres because just saying, "it's misogyny" doesn't stop the gun violence or change that widespread ideology.
The UK has a thing called Prevent for grounding potentially radicalised teenagers in their community and civil life. I don't know how much it's like having catchers in the rye, but for finding kids that might be alienated and feel a lack of agency in UK culture it also s'posed to connect them to UK life and to invest then in the system.
It's a second-tier fix if you're not going to have communities where people know and talk to people and ground then in ordinary everyday-ness overcoming any pretend boundaries like class and wealth and ethnic background.
posted by k3ninho at 11:36 PM on August 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
...It’s like violent video games may be a commonality but that just as much due to how many men love to play violent video games.
If anything, this says "boys will be boys" which is a great excuse for letting misogynistic culture train up each next generation. But I think I agree with you -- the whole system is harmed by misogynistic culture, not just those who experience mass shootings and domestic violence.
Violent games were blamed for many things, they were the 1990s edition of "Satanic Panic" but that's a diversion. Instead video game play is play where an outlet for feelings, especially anger, is an outlet rather than an amplifier.
I say that in the sense that games give you somewhere to play and to work through the feelings that misogynistic culture says are feminine and weak. We all have feelings, but misogynistic culture says that men can't be weak.
Moreover, misogynistic culture denies men practise at these everyday tasks: acknowledging feelings, negotiating with fellow human beings and accepting compromise. It leads to men have much less agency in their lives and less time feeling that they're 'on top' like men should be. (If you don't win, how manly are you?)
The win-all manliness is jarring against a country that's changing: education is expensive to get high-paying jobs for winning the USA Dream; more non-manly people are being boosted up the system the way this authentic manly person should be; he can't ask for help, that's unmanly; there's much less agency as an adult than misogynistic culture promises and the fall-back tool is physicality and (manly) brute force. Or, with the second amendment, brute force of a gun.
Yes, please take away the guns -- but what goes in their place? Maybe swap them guns for actually agency in community and for being able to contribute and have an impact in the world around you?
Let's go back to games: online multiplayer and messageboards connected with the games sometimes devolve into mob behaviour, acting like they've an IQ of the thickest person divided by the size of the mob. Sometimes the mob is forget-yourself catharsis, and sometimes the mob is forget-consequences catharsis, but it's a social place to play through those feelings -- with people often as aggrieved as you are at The State Of The World.
latkes: The article discusses electoral strategies but also the limitations of that. It closes with saying we should talk to our kids about misogyny. Does anyone really think that's enough? I feel like there's a missing link about how we organize with people who are outside of our personal social spheres because just saying, "it's misogyny" doesn't stop the gun violence or change that widespread ideology.
The UK has a thing called Prevent for grounding potentially radicalised teenagers in their community and civil life. I don't know how much it's like having catchers in the rye, but for finding kids that might be alienated and feel a lack of agency in UK culture it also s'posed to connect them to UK life and to invest then in the system.
It's a second-tier fix if you're not going to have communities where people know and talk to people and ground then in ordinary everyday-ness overcoming any pretend boundaries like class and wealth and ethnic background.
posted by k3ninho at 11:36 PM on August 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
The UK has a thing called Prevent for grounding potentially radicalised teenagers in their community and civil life.
There are definitely mixed views on the effectiveness of Prevent. That's at least in part because in the UK the two largest ideologies most effective at grooming teenagers are far right extremists and Islamic extremists. In both cases the political views of people making decisions can have a big impact on which they consider a bigger problem and where they draw the line between radicalisation and free speech/religious freedom.
posted by plonkee at 6:49 AM on August 26, 2022
There are definitely mixed views on the effectiveness of Prevent. That's at least in part because in the UK the two largest ideologies most effective at grooming teenagers are far right extremists and Islamic extremists. In both cases the political views of people making decisions can have a big impact on which they consider a bigger problem and where they draw the line between radicalisation and free speech/religious freedom.
posted by plonkee at 6:49 AM on August 26, 2022
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