King Sooper Eats Tom Thumb
October 14, 2022 5:47 AM Subscribe
I'm not quite sure how this passes regulatory approval.
It seems like grocery stores shifted hard from a regional model to a national one – so these two companies and their dozens of regional brands are providing that faux "we're local and know your area!" vibe, but in many ways it's no different than Amazon, Walmart, or Target: national names, fairly consistent offerings with some local variants in physical stores, and ultimately the same customer experience. I'd also think eventually that maintaining all those brands is going to be more expensive... so consolidation could happen and then it's just Kroger or newGrocery3.0 or whatever. (I mean, if I were them, I would totally drop this facade.)
And yeah, the article is right that there are "strong" regional players, but they're regional, so now they'll compete with an even bigger national player instead of a pretty big national player. Plenty of those more niche national players aren't in all markets either (Trader Joe's, Aldi).
The net result in areas where Albertson's and Kroger overlap will mean fewer grocery stores. And you know they won't be rushing to do anything about food deserts – they're larger and it's really not worth their time now.
Pretty bad, overall, for people. Shareholders will rake it in.
posted by hijinx at 6:09 AM on October 14, 2022 [14 favorites]
It seems like grocery stores shifted hard from a regional model to a national one – so these two companies and their dozens of regional brands are providing that faux "we're local and know your area!" vibe, but in many ways it's no different than Amazon, Walmart, or Target: national names, fairly consistent offerings with some local variants in physical stores, and ultimately the same customer experience. I'd also think eventually that maintaining all those brands is going to be more expensive... so consolidation could happen and then it's just Kroger or newGrocery3.0 or whatever. (I mean, if I were them, I would totally drop this facade.)
And yeah, the article is right that there are "strong" regional players, but they're regional, so now they'll compete with an even bigger national player instead of a pretty big national player. Plenty of those more niche national players aren't in all markets either (Trader Joe's, Aldi).
The net result in areas where Albertson's and Kroger overlap will mean fewer grocery stores. And you know they won't be rushing to do anything about food deserts – they're larger and it's really not worth their time now.
Pretty bad, overall, for people. Shareholders will rake it in.
posted by hijinx at 6:09 AM on October 14, 2022 [14 favorites]
Krogons > Albger
My corporate branding consulting fees are available on request.
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 6:16 AM on October 14, 2022 [19 favorites]
My corporate branding consulting fees are available on request.
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 6:16 AM on October 14, 2022 [19 favorites]
mmmm, isn't Walmart the biggest food retailer though?
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:25 AM on October 14, 2022
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:25 AM on October 14, 2022
What are Krogers like? In my town, the Albertsons was the "bad" grocery store, a rung below Winn-Dixie and nowhere near Publix. They pulled up stakes in the late 90's or early 2000's, and now that building is a Hobby Lobby, carrying on the legacy of shittiness.
posted by saladin at 6:28 AM on October 14, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by saladin at 6:28 AM on October 14, 2022 [9 favorites]
What are Krogers like?
I grew up with Krogers all over the place. They were always the “better” grocery store. The one near me today is pretty good, as far as selection and quality goes. Prices aren’t the most competitive, but they aren’t bad either. There’s definitely an air of running things on a tight margin (i.e. not as bright and shiny as a Whole Foods or a Fresh Thyme) but it’s not a hellscape, either.
My Kroger seems to be doing better at keeping the shelves stocked than my usual big-box grocery store, Meijer’s. That place seems to have been hit hard by the supply chain problem.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:39 AM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
I grew up with Krogers all over the place. They were always the “better” grocery store. The one near me today is pretty good, as far as selection and quality goes. Prices aren’t the most competitive, but they aren’t bad either. There’s definitely an air of running things on a tight margin (i.e. not as bright and shiny as a Whole Foods or a Fresh Thyme) but it’s not a hellscape, either.
My Kroger seems to be doing better at keeping the shelves stocked than my usual big-box grocery store, Meijer’s. That place seems to have been hit hard by the supply chain problem.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:39 AM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
1. It seems like there has been little antitrust or antimonopoly help from regulators in some years.
2. In my town (Albuquerque), the Kroger-owned Smith's has lower prices than Albertson's. Smith's is also unionized and where my family shops. This area's other choices are either Walmart, Target or small grocers, usually targeted to poor people.
posted by NotLost at 6:40 AM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
2. In my town (Albuquerque), the Kroger-owned Smith's has lower prices than Albertson's. Smith's is also unionized and where my family shops. This area's other choices are either Walmart, Target or small grocers, usually targeted to poor people.
posted by NotLost at 6:40 AM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
In SW Ohio, Krogers dominates. I think they get complacent with this minimal competition. Bad management of the produce section and odd stocking choices in the rest of the store.
The NPR story on this merger said that the merged companies would be 13% of the national grocery business, but Walmart is 25% already.
posted by jjj606 at 6:47 AM on October 14, 2022
The NPR story on this merger said that the merged companies would be 13% of the national grocery business, but Walmart is 25% already.
posted by jjj606 at 6:47 AM on October 14, 2022
Cool, cool, Kroger already ruined Mariano's for us in Chicago and now they're going to make Jewel-Osco even crappier than it already is?
I propose that the merged company be named Fat Albertson's.
posted by jordemort at 6:50 AM on October 14, 2022 [17 favorites]
I propose that the merged company be named Fat Albertson's.
posted by jordemort at 6:50 AM on October 14, 2022 [17 favorites]
I'm not quite sure how this passes regulatory approval.
You're not the only one. Analysis: Would Kroger-Albertsons merger pass muster with regulators? "A deal to merge two huge companies in the same industry sector, supermarket retail, certainly would draw intense antitrust scrutiny from the Federal Trade Commission and require sizable divestitures and/or store closings to gain approval."
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 6:52 AM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
You're not the only one. Analysis: Would Kroger-Albertsons merger pass muster with regulators? "A deal to merge two huge companies in the same industry sector, supermarket retail, certainly would draw intense antitrust scrutiny from the Federal Trade Commission and require sizable divestitures and/or store closings to gain approval."
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 6:52 AM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm not quite sure how this passes regulatory approval.
Market Efficiencies(tm)!
The good thing about how we're trending towards just One Company is it will be easier to nationalize it when we finally break out the guillotines.
posted by dis_integration at 6:54 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Market Efficiencies(tm)!
The good thing about how we're trending towards just One Company is it will be easier to nationalize it when we finally break out the guillotines.
posted by dis_integration at 6:54 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Here in Seattle, most of our big, non-specialty supermarkets (Safeway, QFC, or Fred Meyer, which is owned by Kroger) are owned by one of these companies, which would mean this one company would own most of the supermarkets. I can't imagine Seattle is the only city where this is the case. Seems like a very obvious monopoly.
I grew up with Krogers all over the place. They were always the “better” grocery store.
Same with the Kroger-owned supermarkets here. QFC and Fred Meyer are not fancy but they are much nicer than Safeway.
posted by lunasol at 7:08 AM on October 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
I grew up with Krogers all over the place. They were always the “better” grocery store.
Same with the Kroger-owned supermarkets here. QFC and Fred Meyer are not fancy but they are much nicer than Safeway.
posted by lunasol at 7:08 AM on October 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
I will never forgive Kroger for what they did to Fred Meyer.
posted by 3j0hn at 7:14 AM on October 14, 2022 [16 favorites]
posted by 3j0hn at 7:14 AM on October 14, 2022 [16 favorites]
Obviously it's regional or local, but my association with Kroger (as in actual Kroger-branded stores, not other brands they own like Fred Meyer) is that they are lower middle tier. Most of the ones around me feel like stores that were once pretty nice but have not been well maintained so are a bit dirty and run down, and aren't staffed or managed appropriately so the displays are kind of a mess and stock is hit or miss. I'm actually a little bit surprised to hear that in other areas Kroger is the "nice" store.
posted by primethyme at 7:16 AM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by primethyme at 7:16 AM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm actually a little bit surprised to hear that in other areas Kroger is the "nice" store.
Yeah when Kroger rolled into my area and bought out some of our small local chains the quality of groceries declined precipitously. In Chicago Albertsons is repped by Jewel, which has always been aesthetically down-at-heel but never ran out of essentials and always seems to be the better deal unless you want to go full Aldi. Chicagoans love the Jewels. We will go to the barricades for the Jewels.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:22 AM on October 14, 2022 [9 favorites]
Yeah when Kroger rolled into my area and bought out some of our small local chains the quality of groceries declined precipitously. In Chicago Albertsons is repped by Jewel, which has always been aesthetically down-at-heel but never ran out of essentials and always seems to be the better deal unless you want to go full Aldi. Chicagoans love the Jewels. We will go to the barricades for the Jewels.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:22 AM on October 14, 2022 [9 favorites]
Krogons > Albger
The Mass Effect fan in me wants to see Krogans, with checkout clerks that look like a cross between Klingons and horned toads picking up a package of pepper jack cheese and snarling, "You don't have the quads for this!" before head-butting the customer.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:31 AM on October 14, 2022 [17 favorites]
The Mass Effect fan in me wants to see Krogans, with checkout clerks that look like a cross between Klingons and horned toads picking up a package of pepper jack cheese and snarling, "You don't have the quads for this!" before head-butting the customer.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:31 AM on October 14, 2022 [17 favorites]
Just Six Corporations Remain
(slonion)
Not directly related to this grocery story, but in 1983 journalist Ben Bagdikian wrote The Media Monopoly, widely popular but also often decried as alarmist at the time, in which he warned that just 50 corporations controlled the majority of all forms of American media. When I read the most recent 2004 edition in college, that number had decreased to 5: Disney, News Corporation, Time Warner, Viacom, and Bertelsmann, and there has been even further consolidation since then.
So the Onion was being uncharacteristically optimistic about the future.
posted by star gentle uterus at 7:41 AM on October 14, 2022 [15 favorites]
(slonion)
Not directly related to this grocery story, but in 1983 journalist Ben Bagdikian wrote The Media Monopoly, widely popular but also often decried as alarmist at the time, in which he warned that just 50 corporations controlled the majority of all forms of American media. When I read the most recent 2004 edition in college, that number had decreased to 5: Disney, News Corporation, Time Warner, Viacom, and Bertelsmann, and there has been even further consolidation since then.
So the Onion was being uncharacteristically optimistic about the future.
posted by star gentle uterus at 7:41 AM on October 14, 2022 [15 favorites]
In our area, Albertsons AND Ralph’s have been absolutely decimated by Asian markets like H-Mart, Zion, and 99 Ranch. This has been a great improvement to my life.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 7:58 AM on October 14, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 7:58 AM on October 14, 2022 [12 favorites]
Chicagoans love the Jewels.
I'm kind of hoping that this will put Mariano's out of its misery and get rid of them. But I also don't hold out hope that Jewel will improve because of this. Meanwhile Amazon is slowly and quietly expanding their FrankenWholeFoods outlets across the area.
I was in our local Jewel a few months ago and they were painting the drop ceiling tiles white to cover up the dirt and grime. While the store was open, mind you.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:00 AM on October 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'm kind of hoping that this will put Mariano's out of its misery and get rid of them. But I also don't hold out hope that Jewel will improve because of this. Meanwhile Amazon is slowly and quietly expanding their FrankenWholeFoods outlets across the area.
I was in our local Jewel a few months ago and they were painting the drop ceiling tiles white to cover up the dirt and grime. While the store was open, mind you.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:00 AM on October 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
In my area, Safeway is the store where things are inexplicably more expensive. Fred Meyer (kroger) is the store that often has deals that compare to Walmart or Winco, while having a better selection, and being much cleaner.
Unlikely, but it would be wonderful if one of the brands they split off before merging was Fred Meyer.
posted by shenkerism at 8:09 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Unlikely, but it would be wonderful if one of the brands they split off before merging was Fred Meyer.
posted by shenkerism at 8:09 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
California bay area residents get weekly fliers from "Foods Co.," which is Kroger going through willing third party grocery stores to capture some weird segment of people. I wonder how many people actually understand.
posted by user92371 at 8:10 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by user92371 at 8:10 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
price gouging (which the corporate media reports using the misleading term "inflation").
There isn't a whole lot of price gouging going on at the retail level. Total grocery profit margins are on the order of 1 to 3 percent.
And especially in dense areas, there's a huge amount of competition in this market, as evidenced by the growth of Asian stores like H-Mart, as mentioned above, as well as low-cost chains like Aldi and Lidl.
That doesn't mean that this merger should be approved: Especially in smaller towns, I can see this limiting competition. And prices aren't the only issue. Consumers also want quality and variety, wholesalers and producers want competition amount their customers, and workers want competition among employers.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 8:15 AM on October 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
There isn't a whole lot of price gouging going on at the retail level. Total grocery profit margins are on the order of 1 to 3 percent.
And especially in dense areas, there's a huge amount of competition in this market, as evidenced by the growth of Asian stores like H-Mart, as mentioned above, as well as low-cost chains like Aldi and Lidl.
That doesn't mean that this merger should be approved: Especially in smaller towns, I can see this limiting competition. And prices aren't the only issue. Consumers also want quality and variety, wholesalers and producers want competition amount their customers, and workers want competition among employers.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 8:15 AM on October 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
Krogons > Albger
Alberger? Krogertsons?
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:17 AM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Alberger? Krogertsons?
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:17 AM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Welcome to life in Canada, where there are only 4 major conglomerates (not counting Costco or Walmart).
Expect prices to rise, unions to be broken and then price-fixing to occur. Surprised this happened first in Canada, but likely our small population contributed.
posted by rozcakj at 8:21 AM on October 14, 2022 [11 favorites]
Expect prices to rise, unions to be broken and then price-fixing to occur. Surprised this happened first in Canada, but likely our small population contributed.
posted by rozcakj at 8:21 AM on October 14, 2022 [11 favorites]
I was in our local Jewel a few months ago and they were painting the drop ceiling tiles white to cover up the dirt and grime. While the store was open, mind you.
Ooo, you must have been at one of them fancy Lakeview Jewels LOL
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:30 AM on October 14, 2022
Ooo, you must have been at one of them fancy Lakeview Jewels LOL
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:30 AM on October 14, 2022
fancy Lakeview Jewels
DuPage county, but same thing I suppose. =) Oddly, the other Jewel in town quietly got new laminate flooring but did it overnight.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:37 AM on October 14, 2022
DuPage county, but same thing I suppose. =) Oddly, the other Jewel in town quietly got new laminate flooring but did it overnight.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:37 AM on October 14, 2022
What are Krogers like?
I prefer Meijer and Aldi but Kroger's Big K Diet Cola is basically Diet Coke at 1/3-1/2 the price, so I'm kind of stuck going there for soda.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:55 AM on October 14, 2022
I prefer Meijer and Aldi but Kroger's Big K Diet Cola is basically Diet Coke at 1/3-1/2 the price, so I'm kind of stuck going there for soda.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:55 AM on October 14, 2022
So glad we still have Trader Joe’s.
posted by Ideefixe at 9:09 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Ideefixe at 9:09 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Thinking about in my immediate area - my nearest supermarket grocery is Vons (aka Safeway/Albertsons) and then Ralphs (Kroger), another Ralphs, Stater Brothers (independentish), , Food 4 Less (Kroger), Pavillons (fancy Vons).
That means almost all of my big groceries would be Kroger/Albertson - with one full service independent, 2 Whole Foods, 1 Amazon Fresh, 3 Trader Joes and a few chain Mexican/Ethnic groceries (Vallarta, Super King) remaining.
Oh and in my area almost always the Vons are less trashy than the Kroger stores.
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:13 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
That means almost all of my big groceries would be Kroger/Albertson - with one full service independent, 2 Whole Foods, 1 Amazon Fresh, 3 Trader Joes and a few chain Mexican/Ethnic groceries (Vallarta, Super King) remaining.
Oh and in my area almost always the Vons are less trashy than the Kroger stores.
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:13 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
The net result in areas where Albertson's and Kroger overlap will mean fewer grocery stores. And you know they won't be rushing to do anything about food deserts – they're larger and it's really not worth their time now.
I believe this. One thing I learned from Mitchell Schwarzer's Hella Town is that Oakland used to have 80 Safeways (basically, a small store in every neighborhood). Safeway's still our biggest grocery chain, but now we have 6.
posted by aws17576 at 9:16 AM on October 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
I believe this. One thing I learned from Mitchell Schwarzer's Hella Town is that Oakland used to have 80 Safeways (basically, a small store in every neighborhood). Safeway's still our biggest grocery chain, but now we have 6.
posted by aws17576 at 9:16 AM on October 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
Are they the parent of Star Market and Shaw's? The further you are away from the people, the more you Don't Get It. They were pretty tone deaf around here, baffled when they raised prices and people started staying away--don't they know that people actually pay very close attention to prices, including just a few cents here and there?
posted by Melismata at 9:21 AM on October 14, 2022
posted by Melismata at 9:21 AM on October 14, 2022
Are they the parent of Star Market and Shaw's?
Yes.
Also here in Massachusetts, Stop & Shop and Hannaford are owned by Ahold-DeHaize, which also owns Food Lion. Market Basket is still locally owned, as is Big Y.
posted by briank at 9:29 AM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Yes.
Also here in Massachusetts, Stop & Shop and Hannaford are owned by Ahold-DeHaize, which also owns Food Lion. Market Basket is still locally owned, as is Big Y.
posted by briank at 9:29 AM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Here in Seattle, most of our big, non-specialty supermarkets (Safeway, QFC, or Fred Meyer, which is owned by Kroger) are owned by one of these companies, which would mean this one company would own most of the supermarkets
In Seattle, Kroger/QFC/Fred Meyer also shut down stores and blamed it on a pay increase mandated by the city for grocery workers during the lockdown. While Kroger parent was making record profits, no less. So they will have yet more of a stranglehold on labor and tax policy here, to be able to bully the city into compliance with what shareholders from another city or country want, as opposed to what laws we want for ourselves.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:33 AM on October 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
In Seattle, Kroger/QFC/Fred Meyer also shut down stores and blamed it on a pay increase mandated by the city for grocery workers during the lockdown. While Kroger parent was making record profits, no less. So they will have yet more of a stranglehold on labor and tax policy here, to be able to bully the city into compliance with what shareholders from another city or country want, as opposed to what laws we want for ourselves.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:33 AM on October 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
It could be that since I live next to the Mariano's test store, still frequented and checked in upon by the former owner Mr. Mariano, that mine is nicer than other Mariano's. But man, I love the shit out of that place. Best existing combination of organic/upscale with the American junk food and Eastern European specialty stuff my family eats.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:41 AM on October 14, 2022
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:41 AM on October 14, 2022
Kroger used their acquisition of Harris Teeter to close union Krogers and replace them with non-union HTs while pretending they were still separate companies. HT had really terrible pay rates and treatment of everyone other than the upper managers before that acquisition, despite charging premium prices for mid-level goods. So consumers got higher prices and workers got lower wages and protections.
posted by Candleman at 9:44 AM on October 14, 2022
posted by Candleman at 9:44 AM on October 14, 2022
I miss the old-timey Gibbons' Markets, but at least Fairsley Foods has apples.
posted by Servo5678 at 9:47 AM on October 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Servo5678 at 9:47 AM on October 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
We are fairly lucky here in SoCal that our large grocery stores are unionized, but Kroger and Albertsons pulled the same shut down gimmicks when LA and Long Beach enacted "hero raises" of $1/hr.
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:57 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:57 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I have no idea what Bob Mariano's master plan is but he keeps designing new chains and then selling them out right away to get downscaled and cost-reduced. And maybe that's good enough for him. (PS, Bob, you're just ripping off Standard Market).
Seems like Amazon should hire him to figure out how to make the Amazon Fresh stores approachable but if it means putting in alcohol and a sushi bar I could see how Seattle isn't interested. AF stores are just hyperlocal delivery warehouses that happen to have a checkout counter.
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:00 AM on October 14, 2022
Seems like Amazon should hire him to figure out how to make the Amazon Fresh stores approachable but if it means putting in alcohol and a sushi bar I could see how Seattle isn't interested. AF stores are just hyperlocal delivery warehouses that happen to have a checkout counter.
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:00 AM on October 14, 2022
Ugh. I have a soft spot for Kroger, as it was the grocery store we went to in Alabama when I grew up, starting.. 1989 or so? Before the big Fred Meyer merger at any rate. This was well before Whole Foods or any fancy grocery store, and I have the recollection that it was better than Winn-Dixie, but it might have just been closer to our house. They sold gift cards (and before that, paper gift certificates) to our UU church (others too I'm sure) at a discount as a fund-raiser.
Now the two big chain grocery stores where I live are Fred Meyer (which never fails to bowl me over with the range of stuff they sell, like a homier-feeling Wal-Mart), owned by Kroger, and Haggen (prices similar to or worse than Whole Foods, never that great in quality), owned by Albertsons. Guess I'll just keep going to the co-op.
posted by supercres at 10:07 AM on October 14, 2022
Now the two big chain grocery stores where I live are Fred Meyer (which never fails to bowl me over with the range of stuff they sell, like a homier-feeling Wal-Mart), owned by Kroger, and Haggen (prices similar to or worse than Whole Foods, never that great in quality), owned by Albertsons. Guess I'll just keep going to the co-op.
posted by supercres at 10:07 AM on October 14, 2022
What are Krogers like?
In my area (Knoxville, TN), Kroger can be super nice or super trashy. The new Kroger Marketplace stores have excellent grocery selections, plus you can buy stuff like vacuum cleaners, motor oil and clothing. Not my cup of tea, but whatever.
The Kroger closest to my house is in a low-key weird neighborhood - very mixed in every aspect, but pretty peaceful. This store seems to be the epicenter of the weirdness, to the point that the store has been called Fellini Kroger for many years. The store's unofficial Facebook page describes it:
"A place for folks who shop at that bizarre chamber of grocery-ness whose population often resembles that of a Greyhound bus station. If someone doesn't come up to you and start a randomly weird conversation while you're there, you haven't stayed long enough."
Krogers are a land of contrasts, I suppose.
posted by workerant at 10:22 AM on October 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
In my area (Knoxville, TN), Kroger can be super nice or super trashy. The new Kroger Marketplace stores have excellent grocery selections, plus you can buy stuff like vacuum cleaners, motor oil and clothing. Not my cup of tea, but whatever.
The Kroger closest to my house is in a low-key weird neighborhood - very mixed in every aspect, but pretty peaceful. This store seems to be the epicenter of the weirdness, to the point that the store has been called Fellini Kroger for many years. The store's unofficial Facebook page describes it:
"A place for folks who shop at that bizarre chamber of grocery-ness whose population often resembles that of a Greyhound bus station. If someone doesn't come up to you and start a randomly weird conversation while you're there, you haven't stayed long enough."
Krogers are a land of contrasts, I suppose.
posted by workerant at 10:22 AM on October 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
A song about the Kroger on Ponce.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:35 AM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:35 AM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Krogers are a land of contrasts, I suppose.
Indeed. I had never been to a Kroger until I was living in Atlanta, and at the time the closest one to me was the Murder Kroger, a moniker which played no small part in my patronizing publix instead even if it was a little farther away (also the fried chicken, also I'm floridian)
posted by dis_integration at 10:37 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Indeed. I had never been to a Kroger until I was living in Atlanta, and at the time the closest one to me was the Murder Kroger, a moniker which played no small part in my patronizing publix instead even if it was a little farther away (also the fried chicken, also I'm floridian)
posted by dis_integration at 10:37 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I never had any feelings about Kroger either way till they closed the one that was basically the only full size grocery for a while section of town where I lived and I suddenly had to drive 20 minutes further.
And it was always busy! If they weren't making enough money it wasn't for lack of people shopping there.
In general they seemed to be less nice than they used to, dirtier and with less stock. I haven't been impressed with the King Sooper here either.
Combined with the way food prices keep rising it just makes me feel helpless and angry.
posted by emjaybee at 10:39 AM on October 14, 2022
And it was always busy! If they weren't making enough money it wasn't for lack of people shopping there.
In general they seemed to be less nice than they used to, dirtier and with less stock. I haven't been impressed with the King Sooper here either.
Combined with the way food prices keep rising it just makes me feel helpless and angry.
posted by emjaybee at 10:39 AM on October 14, 2022
The three closest grocery stores to me are all Ralphs. Three Ralphs on the same street within a two mile stretch. One is slightly nicer than the others but has the worst parking. Then the one in the middle is slightly less nice but has better parking. Then the third is definitely more run down than the other two. Then there's a natural foods store, an upscale "You thought Whole Foods was expensive? That's nothing. Here's a $12 can of soup" store and a Trader Joe's. But Ralphs dominates easily.
posted by downtohisturtles at 10:43 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by downtohisturtles at 10:43 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
1989 [...] well before Whole Foods or any fancy grocery store
I know what you mean but just FYI close to 10,000 food co-ops* were established by 1979 and Whole Foods is owned by Amazon.
*page 157
posted by aniola at 10:53 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I know what you mean but just FYI close to 10,000 food co-ops* were established by 1979 and Whole Foods is owned by Amazon.
*page 157
posted by aniola at 10:53 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
The USDA has been tracking the consolidation of grocery store chains for years. They are not fans.
Errol Schweizer, who goes by "grocery_nerd" on Twitter, explains exactly why this is such a terrible idea.
posted by rednikki at 10:55 AM on October 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
Errol Schweizer, who goes by "grocery_nerd" on Twitter, explains exactly why this is such a terrible idea.
posted by rednikki at 10:55 AM on October 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
Krogers are a land of contrasts, I suppose.
I think the perceived quality of Kroger stores depends a lot on the local management and, just as much, on the local customer base.
Where I live, if you visited a Kroger in the wealthiest parts of town and then went to one of them in the poorest parts of town, if it wasn't for the logos and the store brands, you'd hardly realize they were part of the same chain.
One Kroger: extensive organic and international sections, rows of self-checks, florist, deli, baker, and butcher on-site, on weekends there are people strolling around handing out samples of fresh something.
Other Kroger: couple aisles of items popular with Latine people, more frozen food, one or two self-checks, there's a butcher counter but everything is prepackaged, carts are fitted with an electronic device to keep people from taking them out of the parking lot, on weekends there's a guy out front grilling burgers.
posted by box at 11:00 AM on October 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
I think the perceived quality of Kroger stores depends a lot on the local management and, just as much, on the local customer base.
Where I live, if you visited a Kroger in the wealthiest parts of town and then went to one of them in the poorest parts of town, if it wasn't for the logos and the store brands, you'd hardly realize they were part of the same chain.
One Kroger: extensive organic and international sections, rows of self-checks, florist, deli, baker, and butcher on-site, on weekends there are people strolling around handing out samples of fresh something.
Other Kroger: couple aisles of items popular with Latine people, more frozen food, one or two self-checks, there's a butcher counter but everything is prepackaged, carts are fitted with an electronic device to keep people from taking them out of the parking lot, on weekends there's a guy out front grilling burgers.
posted by box at 11:00 AM on October 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
I’m in the Twin Cities and am pretty sure we don’t have either Kroger’s or Albertsons but of course have our own interesting supermarket landscape. Recently local online news site Racket MN did a great breakdown on the cheapest and most expensive grocery chains in town. Personally, I shop all over the place but spend the most time at Aldi because it’s the cheapest and has the most interesting stuff. But of course Aldi is similar to shopping in Eastern Europe in the 1980’s - maybe they’ll have milk, maybe not.
Racket is also a really interesting result of mergers. Citypages was out amazing local alt weekly. It was purchased by Village Voice which brought the quality down and the more recently the biggest newspaper in town the Star Tribune which whittled it down to nothing and the unceremoniously shuttered it ending it’s 40 year run. Racket emerged from the ashes and is really doing some wonderful work.
posted by misterpatrick at 11:07 AM on October 14, 2022
Racket is also a really interesting result of mergers. Citypages was out amazing local alt weekly. It was purchased by Village Voice which brought the quality down and the more recently the biggest newspaper in town the Star Tribune which whittled it down to nothing and the unceremoniously shuttered it ending it’s 40 year run. Racket emerged from the ashes and is really doing some wonderful work.
posted by misterpatrick at 11:07 AM on October 14, 2022
Seems like Amazon should hire him to figure out how to make the Amazon Fresh stores approachable but if it means putting in alcohol and a sushi bar I could see how Seattle isn't interested.
Amazon Fresh stores where I live are basically just regular grocery stores, and they have an alcohol aisle and a fresh bakery and salad bar. It doesn't have an actual bar like newer Whole Foods do, but it's not that different from Aldi or any other small grocery store.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:07 AM on October 14, 2022
Amazon Fresh stores where I live are basically just regular grocery stores, and they have an alcohol aisle and a fresh bakery and salad bar. It doesn't have an actual bar like newer Whole Foods do, but it's not that different from Aldi or any other small grocery store.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:07 AM on October 14, 2022
I meant alcohol as in "a bartender and TVs", sorry for the confusion. My local WF has a really nice beer tap and it's way quieter and cheaper than the local pub. It's pretty good. Mariano's has it as well but Kroger made it somewhat uncool.
posted by JoeZydeco at 11:12 AM on October 14, 2022
posted by JoeZydeco at 11:12 AM on October 14, 2022
Newer Whole Foods stores have like 3 grocery aisles and are like greater than 50% restaurant/bar. I'm not sure I'd even consider them to be grocery stores.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:14 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:14 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think the perceived quality of Kroger stores depends a lot on the local management and, just as much, on the local customer base.
Exactamundo! Back when I live in Memphis, it always seemed that, as part of their citywide fascination with categorizing and naming different entries in chains, Memphians have a complex but widely understood taxonomy of which Kroger is which, ranging from "Romantic Kroger" (dim, mood-lighting, upscale) to "Ghetto Kroger" (chaotic, occasional rats scurrying around). If you put a list of "best Krogers" to "most well-off neighborhoods" it would be notably similar.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:18 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Exactamundo! Back when I live in Memphis, it always seemed that, as part of their citywide fascination with categorizing and naming different entries in chains, Memphians have a complex but widely understood taxonomy of which Kroger is which, ranging from "Romantic Kroger" (dim, mood-lighting, upscale) to "Ghetto Kroger" (chaotic, occasional rats scurrying around). If you put a list of "best Krogers" to "most well-off neighborhoods" it would be notably similar.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:18 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
The Whole Foods near me closed their coffee shop / eating area and replaced it with a Amazon Fresh (?) logistics center. Just stacks of bags for drivers to pick up, and a computer to check orders. It takes up like 20% of their floor space so not tiny. I don't know if I'm ahead or behind the curve here
posted by meowzilla at 11:39 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by meowzilla at 11:39 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I believe Amazon purchased Whole Foods because the former's grocery business was just starting and they wanted to have some experienced people in place. (The previous owner of WF was an asshole and probably hurting for money, so he didn't mind selling I'm sure.) I tried to order some canned items the other day, got the wrong thing, almost didn't get my money back since the chat person on the other end didn't understand what I was saying, and decided that I would always buy my groceries in person from now on. If Amazon and the others are going to run the world, they need to understand that groceries are a very personal thing. (Derail, sorry)
posted by Melismata at 11:46 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Melismata at 11:46 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Kronc
posted by mubba at 11:53 AM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by mubba at 11:53 AM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Let's see if I can sort out the grocery store scenario in the S.F. Bay Area:
Lucky was bought by Albertson's in 1998, but then Lucky California was split and sold off to Save Mart in 2007. I think this was due to legal action? Anyway, it resulted in Lucky stores being replaced by Albertson's, then turning back into Lucky California. Albertson's also gobbled up the Safeway regional chain.
Save Mart (includes Save Marts, FoodMaxx and Lucky CA) is still a regional chain, recently bought by a private equity firm.
Raley's is a regional chain that absorbed Nob Hill Markets.
The remaining local S.F. Bay area chains I know of are Draeger's (in wealthy areas), Lunardi's, Mollie Stone's and Zanotto's. Plus the hyper-local Berkeley Bowl.
posted by JDC8 at 12:07 PM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Lucky was bought by Albertson's in 1998, but then Lucky California was split and sold off to Save Mart in 2007. I think this was due to legal action? Anyway, it resulted in Lucky stores being replaced by Albertson's, then turning back into Lucky California. Albertson's also gobbled up the Safeway regional chain.
Save Mart (includes Save Marts, FoodMaxx and Lucky CA) is still a regional chain, recently bought by a private equity firm.
Raley's is a regional chain that absorbed Nob Hill Markets.
The remaining local S.F. Bay area chains I know of are Draeger's (in wealthy areas), Lunardi's, Mollie Stone's and Zanotto's. Plus the hyper-local Berkeley Bowl.
posted by JDC8 at 12:07 PM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
What shenkerism said. Where I live we have Safeway and Fred Meyer (Kroger) - (and WalMart and Costco and a Co-op and Natural Grocers, also there's an independent in Warrenton I've never been to.) Safeway is the only one that is actually in the city, considerably more expensive, grungier and has a better produce section. Fred Meyer and the others are over the bridge in the sprawl corridor of Warrenton. It has a terrible produce section but is generous with the gas points, so I shop there for cheaper gas.
If they are combined then I suspect Safeway, which is sitting on some very desirable riverfront property, will mysteriously go away and then there will be no groceries in all the city of Astoria except for the Co-op. This is no good. The Co-op is lovely but I'm not in the $7 organic tomato bracket and I'm far from alone.
The NIMBYS, who are fierce here, chased away a proposed Grocery Outlet already so it's not like another cheaper supermarket could come in. This is a huge food desert - and it's not just Oregon: the entire Washington Long Beach peninsula drives over the bridge(s) to shop here because there is basically only one independent, expensive, kinda grotty supermarket over there.
Thanks, late stage capitalism and this seemingly inevitable consolidation of everything! If anything LIKE AN EARTHQUAKE not that that could ever happen here happens and the bridges are out there will be many many thousands of people without food.
posted by mygothlaundry at 12:18 PM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
If they are combined then I suspect Safeway, which is sitting on some very desirable riverfront property, will mysteriously go away and then there will be no groceries in all the city of Astoria except for the Co-op. This is no good. The Co-op is lovely but I'm not in the $7 organic tomato bracket and I'm far from alone.
The NIMBYS, who are fierce here, chased away a proposed Grocery Outlet already so it's not like another cheaper supermarket could come in. This is a huge food desert - and it's not just Oregon: the entire Washington Long Beach peninsula drives over the bridge(s) to shop here because there is basically only one independent, expensive, kinda grotty supermarket over there.
Thanks, late stage capitalism and this seemingly inevitable consolidation of everything! If anything LIKE AN EARTHQUAKE not that that could ever happen here happens and the bridges are out there will be many many thousands of people without food.
posted by mygothlaundry at 12:18 PM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
Lucky California was split and sold off to Save Mart
My skimming eyes mangled that into "Steve Martin" which, I thought, hey, good for him, I guess.
posted by Servo5678 at 12:27 PM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
My skimming eyes mangled that into "Steve Martin" which, I thought, hey, good for him, I guess.
posted by Servo5678 at 12:27 PM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
We have Albertsons and Kroger near us in Dallas and the Kroger stores that predominate in our area have been so bad we've started taking most of our business to Target. But HEB has moved into the suburbs here at long last. We drove 25 miles to do a curbside pickup in Frisco this week and it was better than Kroger was through most of the pandemic.
I think we're going to end up with an alternating grocery run set of HEB/Target/Trader Joe's/Sprouts with the occasional Central Market (upscale HEB)/Whole Foods run to support it and just avoid Kralbertson's. When the last wave of mergers hit the Dallas grocery market, HEB bought some of the stores that closed as a result. I have my fingers crossed that the same will happen here and we'll get a close HEB sometime soon.
Also Whole Foods these days is super weird to me because I'm old enough and Texan enough to remember when it was kind of a hippie grocery story. We used to shop occasionally at the flagship in Austin when we lived there and since that's kind of a lab for what else they were doing we expected a lot of grocery attractions instead of just food sales. But the one near us here in Dallas isn't really that different. It's evolved a long way from when it was just co-op adjacent health food though.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 12:43 PM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think we're going to end up with an alternating grocery run set of HEB/Target/Trader Joe's/Sprouts with the occasional Central Market (upscale HEB)/Whole Foods run to support it and just avoid Kralbertson's. When the last wave of mergers hit the Dallas grocery market, HEB bought some of the stores that closed as a result. I have my fingers crossed that the same will happen here and we'll get a close HEB sometime soon.
Also Whole Foods these days is super weird to me because I'm old enough and Texan enough to remember when it was kind of a hippie grocery story. We used to shop occasionally at the flagship in Austin when we lived there and since that's kind of a lab for what else they were doing we expected a lot of grocery attractions instead of just food sales. But the one near us here in Dallas isn't really that different. It's evolved a long way from when it was just co-op adjacent health food though.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 12:43 PM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
the closest one to me was the Murder Kroger
I'm sorry to inform you that, wikipedia notwithstanding, the one closest to you was not the Murder Kroger but only a Murder Kroger. Denton TX also has a Murder Kroger complete with the occasional murder; it's the one on 380.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 1:02 PM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm sorry to inform you that, wikipedia notwithstanding, the one closest to you was not the Murder Kroger but only a Murder Kroger. Denton TX also has a Murder Kroger complete with the occasional murder; it's the one on 380.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 1:02 PM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
In Atlanta, we name many of our Krogers. My local one is the Stinky Kroger. https://atlanta.curbed.com/maps/a-definitive-mildly-wrong-map-of-atl-kroger-nicknames
posted by heathrowga at 1:07 PM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by heathrowga at 1:07 PM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Let's see. Within a short drive, I have (in rough order of market penetration and ease of access)
Acme Markets (Albertson's)
Giant of PA
Shop-Rite
Wegmans
Trader Joe's (no alcohol, alas)
Aldi
Redner's Warehouse Markets
Super Wal-Mart
Whole Foods
Lidl
Costco
Weis Markets
Giant of MD
Amazon Fresh (just opened recently)
Sprouts
Fresh Market
And the many fallen brandings:
A&P, Genuardi's/ Zagara's, Clemens Market, FoodSource, Super-Fresh, PathMark, Pantry Pride, Thriftway, IGA, Shop'n'Bag.
I go to Wegmans for my main supply runs, Giant for generic ones, TJs for funky stuff, and I find myself drawn to Lidl more and more.
posted by delfin at 1:12 PM on October 14, 2022
Acme Markets (Albertson's)
Giant of PA
Shop-Rite
Wegmans
Trader Joe's (no alcohol, alas)
Aldi
Redner's Warehouse Markets
Super Wal-Mart
Whole Foods
Lidl
Costco
Weis Markets
Giant of MD
Amazon Fresh (just opened recently)
Sprouts
Fresh Market
And the many fallen brandings:
A&P, Genuardi's/ Zagara's, Clemens Market, FoodSource, Super-Fresh, PathMark, Pantry Pride, Thriftway, IGA, Shop'n'Bag.
I go to Wegmans for my main supply runs, Giant for generic ones, TJs for funky stuff, and I find myself drawn to Lidl more and more.
posted by delfin at 1:12 PM on October 14, 2022
Chicago here. Kroger bought out and destroyed Mariano's. Mariano's is a pathetic shell of the fantastic store it once was. I don't even shop there anymore— though mostly because it's somewhat inconvenient for me since we moved to Edgewater. I mean, Mariano's is... ok now. Just meh.
Whole Foods is where I buy meat and seafood and sometimes desserts or cereal when it's on sale. I find Whole Foods produce to be really, really lacking these days. I shop mostly at a small chain called Cermak Market, which has the absolute best produce department anywhere near me. They carry just about everything, including fruits and veggies I have never heard of. It's also extremely diverse (like my neighborhood), with multiple aisles devoted to specific cuisines: African foods, Indian, Pakistani, Polish, Chinese, Korean, Mexican, etc, etc, etc. I swear they have the largest selection of types of rice I've ever seen anywhere. Certain things (like Ben & Jerry's ice cream for instance) are absurdly expensive there. My guess is they mostly serve the multi-ethnic neighborhood and then mark up luxury stuff a lot. Fine by me... their produce is stellar.
But Kroger in Chicago is Mariano's. Nothing good about it anymore, unless you happen to live nearby. And Marianoi's was absolutely wonderful before it was bought out! So I think Kroger sucks.
Jewel is where I go when I want my day and mood to be completely ruined by poor management.
posted by SoberHighland at 1:16 PM on October 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
Whole Foods is where I buy meat and seafood and sometimes desserts or cereal when it's on sale. I find Whole Foods produce to be really, really lacking these days. I shop mostly at a small chain called Cermak Market, which has the absolute best produce department anywhere near me. They carry just about everything, including fruits and veggies I have never heard of. It's also extremely diverse (like my neighborhood), with multiple aisles devoted to specific cuisines: African foods, Indian, Pakistani, Polish, Chinese, Korean, Mexican, etc, etc, etc. I swear they have the largest selection of types of rice I've ever seen anywhere. Certain things (like Ben & Jerry's ice cream for instance) are absurdly expensive there. My guess is they mostly serve the multi-ethnic neighborhood and then mark up luxury stuff a lot. Fine by me... their produce is stellar.
But Kroger in Chicago is Mariano's. Nothing good about it anymore, unless you happen to live nearby. And Marianoi's was absolutely wonderful before it was bought out! So I think Kroger sucks.
Jewel is where I go when I want my day and mood to be completely ruined by poor management.
posted by SoberHighland at 1:16 PM on October 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
I’m in a little wedge of Seattle across a bridge called West Seattle and we have Thriftway. We didn’t shop there for years because we are loaded down with grocery store options even closer, but during the pandemic we decided to eschew online ordering with parking lot pickup and spend our money at the locally owned business.
To our pleased surprise, it’s a kickass grocery store. They have an excellent meat selection with lots of locally butchered options and unusual cuts, huge selections of grains, tinned products, and other non perishables from a big swathe of cultures that have small communities nearby (who needs to buy teff? Thriftway’s got it) and lots of seasonal produce from nearby farms.
Apparently Thriftways used to be all over the place but Kroger kept buying up stores a few at a time. There are only a few left now; the only other one I know of is on Vashon Island. It’s like bodies of water keep Krobertsons from subsuming you. Anyway I can walk to a Safeway three blocks away but I’ll be going to Thriftway even more now, thanks.
posted by Mizu at 1:25 PM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
To our pleased surprise, it’s a kickass grocery store. They have an excellent meat selection with lots of locally butchered options and unusual cuts, huge selections of grains, tinned products, and other non perishables from a big swathe of cultures that have small communities nearby (who needs to buy teff? Thriftway’s got it) and lots of seasonal produce from nearby farms.
Apparently Thriftways used to be all over the place but Kroger kept buying up stores a few at a time. There are only a few left now; the only other one I know of is on Vashon Island. It’s like bodies of water keep Krobertsons from subsuming you. Anyway I can walk to a Safeway three blocks away but I’ll be going to Thriftway even more now, thanks.
posted by Mizu at 1:25 PM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
But Kroger in Chicago is Mariano's. Nothing good about it anymore, unless you happen to live nearby. And Marianoi's was absolutely wonderful before it was bought out! So I think Kroger sucks.
Reminds me of what happened to Genuardi's, which was a locally-founded, family-owned chain in the Philadelphia region. Safeway bought them out, and decided to essentially run them as Safeways with Genuardi's branding.
Within a year, one could hear Genuardi's radio ads stating "We've heard your complaints, and we're adjusting..."
posted by delfin at 1:28 PM on October 14, 2022
Reminds me of what happened to Genuardi's, which was a locally-founded, family-owned chain in the Philadelphia region. Safeway bought them out, and decided to essentially run them as Safeways with Genuardi's branding.
Within a year, one could hear Genuardi's radio ads stating "We've heard your complaints, and we're adjusting..."
posted by delfin at 1:28 PM on October 14, 2022
Here in let's call it greater Little Rock, we have lots of Krogers (a lot of folks around here say it with the 's' at the end even when they mean the singular), Harps (AR/OK/MO/KS), Edwards Food Giant (8 locations in central and NE AR), a Whole Foods, a Trader Joe's, a Fresh Market (159 stores, upscale, mostly in the eastern US), a Natural Grocers (165 stores, like WF 25 years ago, mostly in the middle and western US), a 10Box Cost Plus, a couple butcher shops, a couple small Asian or Indian or Middle Eastern groceries (one w/halal butcher shop), a few more small or medium-sized Mexican groceries (many of which also sell things from other central American countries)... I may be forgetting somebody, but you get the drift. The biggest thing we're missing is an Aldi.
(We also have a lot of Walmarts and dollar stores, but I don't generally shop at those.)
posted by box at 1:33 PM on October 14, 2022
(We also have a lot of Walmarts and dollar stores, but I don't generally shop at those.)
posted by box at 1:33 PM on October 14, 2022
Mariano's used to be so good. We used to make special trips out there to stock up on stuff. And yeah, now there's no real point. I don't live there anymore so I don't quite remember what everything is but there's a big market called Tony's that my family goes to a lot, and then there's another one whose name I forget that is also good - big deli counter, good mortadella, lots of imports, massive frozen section, certainly the best pasta section outside the city itself. All this is near Mannheim Road in the mid-range suburban metro.
My goodness I miss Chicago. I was so happy to move to Minneapolis and thought that I was a true successful transplant but now that I'm old my heart yearns after the sort of boring stuff that we don't really get here, the deep narrow shopfronts; the restaurants that someone from Italy or Poland started after the war and now his family is still running it and it was last updated in maybe 1980 and it's mostly breakfast foods but they do, like, a pierogi plate and they always have some kind of holiday special that you can't normally get in the midwest and of course there's a photo of him from when he retired in 1990; the color of the light; the rather ugly brick houses and three-flats; trains that are trains rather than light rail. Decent Italian food being the norm rather than wildly exceptional. Mariano's is spoiled, yes, but a lot is still left.
posted by Frowner at 1:40 PM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
My goodness I miss Chicago. I was so happy to move to Minneapolis and thought that I was a true successful transplant but now that I'm old my heart yearns after the sort of boring stuff that we don't really get here, the deep narrow shopfronts; the restaurants that someone from Italy or Poland started after the war and now his family is still running it and it was last updated in maybe 1980 and it's mostly breakfast foods but they do, like, a pierogi plate and they always have some kind of holiday special that you can't normally get in the midwest and of course there's a photo of him from when he retired in 1990; the color of the light; the rather ugly brick houses and three-flats; trains that are trains rather than light rail. Decent Italian food being the norm rather than wildly exceptional. Mariano's is spoiled, yes, but a lot is still left.
posted by Frowner at 1:40 PM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
If you want to keep track of current antitrust news, I heartily recommend following BIG by Matt Stoler. He doesn't seem to have written anything about this one yet, but I assume he will soon. But he does detail the new antitrust regime, and their current court issues, and a hope that maybe with the Biden FTC and DOJ actually looking at antitrust, the ship can at least be turned a little.
In my neighborhood, the walkable grocery stores are Safeway (Albertsons), Harris Teeter (Kroger), and a Whole Foods. The Safeway is absolutely dire, despite being totally rebuilt just a few years ago. Sometimes they just don't have, like, chicken, or onions, or...bread. I'm sure the industry-wide staffing shortages are also not helping, since the lines have been getting longer for the past few months. And somehow it seems like company policy that half of the self-checkout machines have to be out of order at any given time, and I don't think any of them take or dispense cash anymore. They also didn't have baskets for a few months, which would seem weird except
The Harris Teeter is a nicer store, but instead of lacking random items, it just seems like they don't carry random things at all. They also didn't have lemons for a few weeks, which seemed weird since Safeway at the time seemed to have a glut. Who knows. And at some point in the Spring, note above, they also didn't have baskets for an extended time.
If I could trust either of these stores to have in stock the random essentials I need to purchase, it would be pretty great, but I can't, and I often have to go to both just to make a simple dinner. Whole Foods, on the other hand, is a pretty great shop, although they don't carry most national brands, and the ones they do carry seem arbitrary. Like, Grey Poupon Dijon, but not Gulden's Brown. But they do have something I can use if I need a product, which is more than I can say about Safeway or Harris Teeter. So I often just begrudgingly shop there because it's easier, if substantially more expensive.
It's just funny that these two chains with strange and distinct ways of being bad are trying to join forces. I suspect not to fix the issues, but instead to share them. Won't that be fun.
posted by General Malaise at 1:45 PM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
In my neighborhood, the walkable grocery stores are Safeway (Albertsons), Harris Teeter (Kroger), and a Whole Foods. The Safeway is absolutely dire, despite being totally rebuilt just a few years ago. Sometimes they just don't have, like, chicken, or onions, or...bread. I'm sure the industry-wide staffing shortages are also not helping, since the lines have been getting longer for the past few months. And somehow it seems like company policy that half of the self-checkout machines have to be out of order at any given time, and I don't think any of them take or dispense cash anymore. They also didn't have baskets for a few months, which would seem weird except
The Harris Teeter is a nicer store, but instead of lacking random items, it just seems like they don't carry random things at all. They also didn't have lemons for a few weeks, which seemed weird since Safeway at the time seemed to have a glut. Who knows. And at some point in the Spring, note above, they also didn't have baskets for an extended time.
If I could trust either of these stores to have in stock the random essentials I need to purchase, it would be pretty great, but I can't, and I often have to go to both just to make a simple dinner. Whole Foods, on the other hand, is a pretty great shop, although they don't carry most national brands, and the ones they do carry seem arbitrary. Like, Grey Poupon Dijon, but not Gulden's Brown. But they do have something I can use if I need a product, which is more than I can say about Safeway or Harris Teeter. So I often just begrudgingly shop there because it's easier, if substantially more expensive.
It's just funny that these two chains with strange and distinct ways of being bad are trying to join forces. I suspect not to fix the issues, but instead to share them. Won't that be fun.
posted by General Malaise at 1:45 PM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
In Atlanta, we name many of our Krogers.
Long live Disco Kroger on Piedmont! It even says "Disco Kroger" on the receipts!
posted by workerant at 2:17 PM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
Long live Disco Kroger on Piedmont! It even says "Disco Kroger" on the receipts!
posted by workerant at 2:17 PM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'd want to find out how all these sub-brands are being managed. Are some deliberately pushed up or downmarket? Are they all managed the exact same way, but with the old names to prevent people from knowing the truth? Or are they all separated from each other in some kind of supermarket thunderdome?
posted by meowzilla at 2:18 PM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by meowzilla at 2:18 PM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Like Candleman said above, Kroger bought all of the Teets quite some time ago, and left them Teet-ish until the past few years when they have insidiously been streamlining Kroger products into the stores. I have been a fan of Teeter for a long time, and despite in a 5 mile radius of my house with a heck of a lot of grocery stores - 3 Teets, 3 Food Dogs, 1 Lowes, 1 Fresh Market, 1 Aldi, 1 Publix, Southeastern NC’s lone freakin Costco, and the high-dollar WalMart - I purchase the majority of my food at the Teeter. The folks that have been employed there from when it was actually HT do NOT like what Kroger has done to the stores, to the products, and to their jobs/careers. There’s a lot of frustration, and customers often ask about foods that HT carried for years but now doesn’t because someone in wherever the hell kroger is thinks they know what North Carolinians eat. Narrator: they do not. I have an awesome butcher at my store that’s been taking care of me for over 10 years. I went in one day and some of the beef was packaged (ETA in non-traditional packaging - obviously not cut in the store), and I asked him “wtf is this” and he’s like “whatever They want. We’re not even cutting some of this in the back anymore.” Teet always had good andouille; I went to get some links because I was making Jambalaya. “Where’s the fresh andouille?” I asked another butcher. “Oh, They decided it won’t be offered here anymore…but you’re not even close to the first person asking where it went.” They had pension plans and it was a solid North Carolina company and freakin cut all the damn meat in house and had good generics and management usually stayed the same and and and. I still shop there as it’s higher tier than some of my other options and my local government paycheck doesn’t lend itself to too many trips to The Fresh Market.
I feel like I am in my front yard yelling at clouds. But after skimming the comments here, it looks like we’re all in a similar boat (buggy?).
posted by sara is disenchanted at 2:24 PM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
I feel like I am in my front yard yelling at clouds. But after skimming the comments here, it looks like we’re all in a similar boat (buggy?).
posted by sara is disenchanted at 2:24 PM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
My two experiences when visiting bits of the family over holidays:
South Texas: "Why would anybody go to a crappy Albertsons when you have H.E.B.?"
North Suburban Virginia: "We buy groceries all over the place, but if we want something nice, we go to Wegman's." (Admittedly, I do like stuff at Wegman's.)
posted by gimonca at 2:52 PM on October 14, 2022
South Texas: "Why would anybody go to a crappy Albertsons when you have H.E.B.?"
North Suburban Virginia: "We buy groceries all over the place, but if we want something nice, we go to Wegman's." (Admittedly, I do like stuff at Wegman's.)
posted by gimonca at 2:52 PM on October 14, 2022
Shaw's bought Star Market. Star Market signs remained at all the entrances. The Star Market-brand items (canned goods, etc.) quietly disappeared, were replaced by Shaw's items. The receipts said thank you for shopping at Shaw's. Shaw's didn't understand why business dropped when they raised prices, quietly spun off Star Market only a few years later. I asked an employee about it who said, yeah, good thing we never changed the signs.
posted by Melismata at 2:54 PM on October 14, 2022
posted by Melismata at 2:54 PM on October 14, 2022
Sometimes they just don't have, like, chicken, or onions, or...bread.
It's really weird that you could live down the street from a Whole Foods, and not have basics in your other stores. Yet another sign that the pandemic has not hit everyone equally. Sure, some really specific items or specific products was occasionally low or missing for a short time the past few years, but not entire lines of products. I don't think I've ever been to a normal grocery store that didn't have any of a basic item. Or was even low particularly low, and we get panic buying due to storms or snow.
posted by The_Vegetables at 3:04 PM on October 14, 2022
It's really weird that you could live down the street from a Whole Foods, and not have basics in your other stores. Yet another sign that the pandemic has not hit everyone equally. Sure, some really specific items or specific products was occasionally low or missing for a short time the past few years, but not entire lines of products. I don't think I've ever been to a normal grocery store that didn't have any of a basic item. Or was even low particularly low, and we get panic buying due to storms or snow.
posted by The_Vegetables at 3:04 PM on October 14, 2022
our own interesting supermarket landscape
Yes, was just thinking about this. The weird part of the landscape here is Cub, which seems like it's actually two or three different management operations behind a common brand. The Cub way up 35-E in White Bear Township is even run by Kowalski's, it turns out.
Kowalski's can be frighteningly expensive, but I've gotten such good produce there. Both Kowalski's and Lunds-Byerlys seem to have smallish stores, compared to "upscale" stores I've visited in other cities.
Everyone seemed to be excited when Hy-Vee showed up...nothing particularly wrong with them, but after all the hype I was a little underwhelmed. People talked up their hot to-go deli foods, I've had bad luck with those (takeout boxes of glop) and haven't felt the need to try them again.
A type of store that hasn't found its way here yet are the big Asian groceries like H-Mart, 99 Market or Lotte Plaza. But we do have local outfit Sun Foods--I don't go there often enough, they're not on my usual routes--but when I have, it's been a surprisingly good experience. I still remember the cheap frozen scallops I got there a couple of years ago; they were so good. They had big pallets of rice in early 2020 when a lot of stores had run out during pandemic hoarding--they did a good job with that, too.
Living near the Target mothership for world domination, we do have to deal with Target as a grocery source. Here too, some are better than others, depending on the size/footprint of the store. They're doing a better job of keeping basics in stock, and selling essentials next to the precious items their marketing department thinks are fab (I remember wanting to buy a lemon at Target a decade or more ago--no lemons that day!).
posted by gimonca at 3:13 PM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Yes, was just thinking about this. The weird part of the landscape here is Cub, which seems like it's actually two or three different management operations behind a common brand. The Cub way up 35-E in White Bear Township is even run by Kowalski's, it turns out.
Kowalski's can be frighteningly expensive, but I've gotten such good produce there. Both Kowalski's and Lunds-Byerlys seem to have smallish stores, compared to "upscale" stores I've visited in other cities.
Everyone seemed to be excited when Hy-Vee showed up...nothing particularly wrong with them, but after all the hype I was a little underwhelmed. People talked up their hot to-go deli foods, I've had bad luck with those (takeout boxes of glop) and haven't felt the need to try them again.
A type of store that hasn't found its way here yet are the big Asian groceries like H-Mart, 99 Market or Lotte Plaza. But we do have local outfit Sun Foods--I don't go there often enough, they're not on my usual routes--but when I have, it's been a surprisingly good experience. I still remember the cheap frozen scallops I got there a couple of years ago; they were so good. They had big pallets of rice in early 2020 when a lot of stores had run out during pandemic hoarding--they did a good job with that, too.
Living near the Target mothership for world domination, we do have to deal with Target as a grocery source. Here too, some are better than others, depending on the size/footprint of the store. They're doing a better job of keeping basics in stock, and selling essentials next to the precious items their marketing department thinks are fab (I remember wanting to buy a lemon at Target a decade or more ago--no lemons that day!).
posted by gimonca at 3:13 PM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
"In 1950, the average American consumed 10 percent more food than in 1930, with poorer households enjoying an especially important improvement in the quality of the food they consumed. John Kenneth Galbraith supported this contention in his 1952 book, American Capitalism, by citing A&P as an example of countervailing power. To support his thesis, he discussed a 1937 A&P study of the feasibility of opening a plant to manufacture corn flakes. The mere possibility of A&P producing corn flakes forced existing corn flake manufacturers to lower their prices by 10%."
posted by clavdivs at 3:36 PM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by clavdivs at 3:36 PM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I look at the sadness that our local chains offer and then I see what bounty we could have if we went to Woodman's. Behold their frozen pizza aisle!
In conclusion,giant corporations are capitalism is why we can't have nice things.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 3:37 PM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
In conclusion,
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 3:37 PM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
I don't quite remember what everything is but there's a big market called Tony's that my family goes to a lot,
Well, if it makes you feel any better, the Tony’s chain got bought out back in April. Which I was extremely displeased to hear, as it’s my standard place, only about 2 blocks walk from home.
posted by notoriety public at 3:40 PM on October 14, 2022
Well, if it makes you feel any better, the Tony’s chain got bought out back in April. Which I was extremely displeased to hear, as it’s my standard place, only about 2 blocks walk from home.
posted by notoriety public at 3:40 PM on October 14, 2022
To pile on what's at Kroger and how good are they: store conditions vary with the conditions of the area they're in. My wife and I love their chocolate milk in regular (not white-wrapped) jugs, low-fat small-curd cottage cheese, and my wife specifically likes their mini-croissants they put out.
For anything else, there's Meijer (pronounced exactly like Meyer), and Busch's.
posted by JoeXIII007 at 3:49 PM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
For anything else, there's Meijer (pronounced exactly like Meyer), and Busch's.
posted by JoeXIII007 at 3:49 PM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
It's really weird that you could live down the street from a Whole Foods, and not have basics in your other stores. Yet another sign that the pandemic has not hit everyone equally.
To be more fair than I really ought to be, Safeways in This Town have been like this since time immemorial, with the pandemic not particularly changing things, but at least it was a reasonable excuse. There was even one Safeway in one of the city's more dense neighborhoods that earned the nickname "Soviet Safeway" because they were perpetually out of all kinds of basic essentials at any given moment.
To add an anecdote: a couple of weeks ago, I stopped by the Safeway to get some deodorant, only to find they had no deodorant. I don't mean my brand, or just men's—there was no deodorant whatsoever. I sent a photo of it to my wife, who sent back a dozen LMAO emojis, then trudged the mile over to the other side of the neighborhood to Harris Teeter (my home being actually basically in the middle of the two), which was fully stocked.
posted by General Malaise at 3:53 PM on October 14, 2022
To be more fair than I really ought to be, Safeways in This Town have been like this since time immemorial, with the pandemic not particularly changing things, but at least it was a reasonable excuse. There was even one Safeway in one of the city's more dense neighborhoods that earned the nickname "Soviet Safeway" because they were perpetually out of all kinds of basic essentials at any given moment.
To add an anecdote: a couple of weeks ago, I stopped by the Safeway to get some deodorant, only to find they had no deodorant. I don't mean my brand, or just men's—there was no deodorant whatsoever. I sent a photo of it to my wife, who sent back a dozen LMAO emojis, then trudged the mile over to the other side of the neighborhood to Harris Teeter (my home being actually basically in the middle of the two), which was fully stocked.
posted by General Malaise at 3:53 PM on October 14, 2022
My Safeway (portland, oregon), still has very random supply chain (or employee?) shortages. Just a few weeks ago, I wanted to buy q-tips. There were none. Not any brand, quantity, etc. Very inexplicable. I've been calling it supply chain issues, but I like the Soviet analogy better.
I'm quite saddened by the potential merger of safeway and kroger. We lost some competition when Albertsons bought Safeway and closed most of the Albertsons stores. But with Fred Meyer (Kroger) currently the only main competitor of Safeway, there will be a virtual monopoly of mid-range grocers in Portland. (Fortunately we still have Grocery Outlet, WinCo, Food4Less, and other low-range options.) I do wish Thriftway had a few more stores.
posted by hydra77 at 4:40 PM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm quite saddened by the potential merger of safeway and kroger. We lost some competition when Albertsons bought Safeway and closed most of the Albertsons stores. But with Fred Meyer (Kroger) currently the only main competitor of Safeway, there will be a virtual monopoly of mid-range grocers in Portland. (Fortunately we still have Grocery Outlet, WinCo, Food4Less, and other low-range options.) I do wish Thriftway had a few more stores.
posted by hydra77 at 4:40 PM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
It sounds like if you're concerned about consumer protection, this merger isn't all that bad. In fact, it may be the best thing to compete with the biggest national food retailer. I'm not sure if it's in anybody's best interests to force two companies to remain more vulnerable to failure against the industry giant.
The hardest thing about the business is that profit margins are extremely thin. Larger entities like Kroger and Walmart survive by scale. Even then, they struggle in places like L.A. where some very successful regional chains forced Kroger and Albertsons to kind of wither away in many locations, a trend that started well before the covid era.
posted by 2N2222 at 4:59 PM on October 14, 2022
The hardest thing about the business is that profit margins are extremely thin. Larger entities like Kroger and Walmart survive by scale. Even then, they struggle in places like L.A. where some very successful regional chains forced Kroger and Albertsons to kind of wither away in many locations, a trend that started well before the covid era.
posted by 2N2222 at 4:59 PM on October 14, 2022
Shaw's bought Star Market. Star Market signs remained at all the entrances.
Which is weird, because I distinctly remember a few Stars Market becoming Shaw's in every aspect. I feel like the MIT Star Market is maybe the only one in memory that kept the name. (Granted, my memory is now 15 years old on this topic.)
Here in L.A. (and now Long Beach), I'm a strict VONS patron. Albertson's got crazy expensive some years ago, and Ralph's prices fluctuated so wildly between locations that it wasn't worth dealing with the variance. Gelson's and Whole Foods are for people with more discretionary income than I have, so they're off my mental map. Trader Joe's basically functions as a specialty store for me, so I don't even consider them in the same ballpark as the others.
posted by mykescipark at 5:07 PM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Which is weird, because I distinctly remember a few Stars Market becoming Shaw's in every aspect. I feel like the MIT Star Market is maybe the only one in memory that kept the name. (Granted, my memory is now 15 years old on this topic.)
Here in L.A. (and now Long Beach), I'm a strict VONS patron. Albertson's got crazy expensive some years ago, and Ralph's prices fluctuated so wildly between locations that it wasn't worth dealing with the variance. Gelson's and Whole Foods are for people with more discretionary income than I have, so they're off my mental map. Trader Joe's basically functions as a specialty store for me, so I don't even consider them in the same ballpark as the others.
posted by mykescipark at 5:07 PM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
In my area (Seattle Metro), Fred Meyer, owned by Kroger, is my go-to grocery store for most items -- moderately priced, with good selection and great staff. Safeway, owned by Albertsons, which as a brand is virtually extinct in this area, is often a bit more expensive, and their stores are smaller. QFC, also owned by Kroger, is a higher-end grocery, though not as bad as, say, Whole Foods.
So though I do the majority of my shopping at Fred Meyer, I also have to go to the Walmart Super Center every week to complete my shopping. There are some items that Walmart simply has a better selection of. There are other items whose prices haven't gone up at Walmart though they have at Fred Meyer. Our local Freddy's remodeled right before the pandemic, and ever since then they've been more nakedly limiting shelf space for some products I prefer, and I don't think it's always due to supply chain issues anymore. Walmart certainly has better luck getting more than three flavors of Dannon Triple Zero yogurt.
I see this merger is going to be the first great test of Lina Khan's FTC. I hope she squashes the thing like a bug.
posted by lhauser at 5:23 PM on October 14, 2022
So though I do the majority of my shopping at Fred Meyer, I also have to go to the Walmart Super Center every week to complete my shopping. There are some items that Walmart simply has a better selection of. There are other items whose prices haven't gone up at Walmart though they have at Fred Meyer. Our local Freddy's remodeled right before the pandemic, and ever since then they've been more nakedly limiting shelf space for some products I prefer, and I don't think it's always due to supply chain issues anymore. Walmart certainly has better luck getting more than three flavors of Dannon Triple Zero yogurt.
I see this merger is going to be the first great test of Lina Khan's FTC. I hope she squashes the thing like a bug.
posted by lhauser at 5:23 PM on October 14, 2022
When Kroger bought out Food Town here in Toledo they eventually closed one of the ex-FT stores in a low income neighborhood near me.
I've since moved and now live close to a Safeway which is the only grocery store in a low income area. If they close that one the food desert here will get even worse.
posted by charred husk at 5:44 PM on October 14, 2022
I've since moved and now live close to a Safeway which is the only grocery store in a low income area. If they close that one the food desert here will get even worse.
posted by charred husk at 5:44 PM on October 14, 2022
Mariano's is a pathetic shell of the fantastic store it once was
I literally (I mean this in the correct sense) occasionally feel on the verge of tears because of what happened to Mariano's. I loved that place, then I moved, and now it apparently sucks. Lots of fond memories at Mariano's before it went bad. What a great place. Ugh. You really can't go back to where you were I suppose.
Just thinking about it turns me into a twisted Gollum-type creature.
We hates Kroger! We hates it forever!
posted by aramaic at 6:51 PM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I literally (I mean this in the correct sense) occasionally feel on the verge of tears because of what happened to Mariano's. I loved that place, then I moved, and now it apparently sucks. Lots of fond memories at Mariano's before it went bad. What a great place. Ugh. You really can't go back to where you were I suppose.
Just thinking about it turns me into a twisted Gollum-type creature.
We hates Kroger! We hates it forever!
posted by aramaic at 6:51 PM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
My guess is that this is happening because analysts anticipate steeply escalating food prices for several years if not indefinitely, and that expectation has made food stores much more valuable and desirable as acquisitions.
Regulators should ABSOLUTELY block this because it will inexorably become a self-fulfilling prophecy since the buyers will have to raise prices not only to buy the food they'll sell and pay their employees, but also to pay the interest on the money they’re borrowing to make the deal.
And borrowing money is suddenly much more expensive! So buckle up, because these people think they can do the same thing to food prices they’ve done to housing prices over the last couple of decades.
posted by jamjam at 7:30 PM on October 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
Regulators should ABSOLUTELY block this because it will inexorably become a self-fulfilling prophecy since the buyers will have to raise prices not only to buy the food they'll sell and pay their employees, but also to pay the interest on the money they’re borrowing to make the deal.
And borrowing money is suddenly much more expensive! So buckle up, because these people think they can do the same thing to food prices they’ve done to housing prices over the last couple of decades.
posted by jamjam at 7:30 PM on October 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
The weird part of the landscape here is Cub, which seems like it's actually two or three different management operations behind a common brand. The Cub way up 35-E in White Bear Township is even run by Kowalski's, it turns out.
Kowalski's can be frighteningly expensive, but I've gotten such good produce there. Both Kowalski's and Lunds-Byerlys seem to have smallish stores, compared to "upscale" stores I've visited in other cities.
Everyone seemed to be excited when Hy-Vee showed up...nothing particularly wrong with them, but after all the hype I was a little underwhelmed. People talked up their hot to-go deli foods, I've had bad luck with those (takeout boxes of glop) and haven't felt the need to try them again.
A type of store that hasn't found its way here yet are the big Asian groceries like H-Mart, 99 Market or Lotte Plaza. But we do have local outfit Sun Foods--I don't go there often enough, they're not on my usual routes--but when I have, it's been a surprisingly good experience. I still remember the cheap frozen scallops I got there a couple of years ago; they were so good. They had big pallets of rice in early 2020 when a lot of stores had run out during pandemic hoarding--they did a good job with that, too.
Living near the Target mothership for world domination, we do have to deal with Target as a grocery source. Here too, some are better than others, depending on the size/footprint of the store. They're doing a better job of keeping basics in stock, and selling essentials next to the precious items their marketing department thinks are fab (I remember wanting to buy a lemon at Target a decade or more ago--no lemons that day!).
Well, hello there, neighbour. I enthusiastically recommend the seemingly unaffiliated Dragon Star markets in St. Paul and Brooklyn Park for everyday goods and Ocean Star foods in St. Paul for bulk purchases. Otherwise, Cub is everywhere but feels in decline since being acquired by UNFI who seem to want to unload the chain.
As for HyVee ... they were great years ago but perhaps became less so in tuning the chain for expansion. Alas.
posted by seraphine at 7:51 PM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Kowalski's can be frighteningly expensive, but I've gotten such good produce there. Both Kowalski's and Lunds-Byerlys seem to have smallish stores, compared to "upscale" stores I've visited in other cities.
Everyone seemed to be excited when Hy-Vee showed up...nothing particularly wrong with them, but after all the hype I was a little underwhelmed. People talked up their hot to-go deli foods, I've had bad luck with those (takeout boxes of glop) and haven't felt the need to try them again.
A type of store that hasn't found its way here yet are the big Asian groceries like H-Mart, 99 Market or Lotte Plaza. But we do have local outfit Sun Foods--I don't go there often enough, they're not on my usual routes--but when I have, it's been a surprisingly good experience. I still remember the cheap frozen scallops I got there a couple of years ago; they were so good. They had big pallets of rice in early 2020 when a lot of stores had run out during pandemic hoarding--they did a good job with that, too.
Living near the Target mothership for world domination, we do have to deal with Target as a grocery source. Here too, some are better than others, depending on the size/footprint of the store. They're doing a better job of keeping basics in stock, and selling essentials next to the precious items their marketing department thinks are fab (I remember wanting to buy a lemon at Target a decade or more ago--no lemons that day!).
Well, hello there, neighbour. I enthusiastically recommend the seemingly unaffiliated Dragon Star markets in St. Paul and Brooklyn Park for everyday goods and Ocean Star foods in St. Paul for bulk purchases. Otherwise, Cub is everywhere but feels in decline since being acquired by UNFI who seem to want to unload the chain.
As for HyVee ... they were great years ago but perhaps became less so in tuning the chain for expansion. Alas.
posted by seraphine at 7:51 PM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
The Safeway is absolutely dire, despite being totally rebuilt just a few years ago. Sometimes they just don't have, like, chicken, or onions, or...bread.
It's really weird that you could live down the street from a Whole Foods, and not have basics in your other stores. Yet another sign that the pandemic has not hit everyone equally.
After Kroger ruined my local Mariano's they just didn't have cream cheese for like 3 months, what the fuck. I'm sure lots of other things went missing but that happened to be the item on my list that suddenly required a cross-neighborhood trek. (To the Jewels, of course, which had cream cheese LIKE A NORMAL STORE.)
This was pre-pandemic too so what on earth was the possible excuse?
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:54 PM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
It's really weird that you could live down the street from a Whole Foods, and not have basics in your other stores. Yet another sign that the pandemic has not hit everyone equally.
After Kroger ruined my local Mariano's they just didn't have cream cheese for like 3 months, what the fuck. I'm sure lots of other things went missing but that happened to be the item on my list that suddenly required a cross-neighborhood trek. (To the Jewels, of course, which had cream cheese LIKE A NORMAL STORE.)
This was pre-pandemic too so what on earth was the possible excuse?
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:54 PM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
anyway now I live across the street from a mexican grocery that sells carnitas by the pound so Kroger can bite my heavily pork-flavored ass.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:56 PM on October 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:56 PM on October 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
2N2222, it’s possible that Walmart is too big rather than Krogers being too small. Likewise for the similar concentration in the producer chain.
Is there any US legal framework for judging monopolies by the distribution of availability and price? The 101 story I know is that if it’s cheaper for "the consumer" it’s okay, but which consumer?
OTOH, the Mississippi is now low enough in at least two places to run barges aground, in time to pause harvests coming out and next years’ fertilizers going in. And the ?whole? basin of the Murray is flooded or looking upstream at the oncoming flood, I read.
posted by clew at 7:58 PM on October 14, 2022
Is there any US legal framework for judging monopolies by the distribution of availability and price? The 101 story I know is that if it’s cheaper for "the consumer" it’s okay, but which consumer?
OTOH, the Mississippi is now low enough in at least two places to run barges aground, in time to pause harvests coming out and next years’ fertilizers going in. And the ?whole? basin of the Murray is flooded or looking upstream at the oncoming flood, I read.
posted by clew at 7:58 PM on October 14, 2022
Here in southern CA I can think of a lot of places where there is a Ralph’s within a block of a Vons/Albertsons. I have to imagine some of those stores will close, as they did with the Albertsons Safeway-Vons merger.
I do most of my shopping at Costco, supplemented by many great Asian and Mexican markets, Trader Joe’s, Sprouts, and the nicely expanding AlDI. Aldi actually beats Costco on price for certain things
Most of the Aldi stores are new and in pretty good shape, but I went to one while traveling in central Florida and it was terrible.
posted by CostcoCultist at 8:14 PM on October 14, 2022
I do most of my shopping at Costco, supplemented by many great Asian and Mexican markets, Trader Joe’s, Sprouts, and the nicely expanding AlDI. Aldi actually beats Costco on price for certain things
Most of the Aldi stores are new and in pretty good shape, but I went to one while traveling in central Florida and it was terrible.
posted by CostcoCultist at 8:14 PM on October 14, 2022
Just stay the fuck away from HEB.
posted by nushustu at 8:14 PM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by nushustu at 8:14 PM on October 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Why a Kroger-Albertsons-Safeway merger could be ‘messy’ in Seattle (Paul Roberts, Seattle Times):
But to win federal approval, the two merger partners would have to sell hundreds of locations in areas where they have too much market overlap. So-called divestiture could shake up the grocery landscape in Seattle and across Washington, where Kroger, which owns QFC and Fred Meyer, and Albertsons, collectively have nearly 350 locations. [...]posted by mbrubeck at 8:39 PM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
History has not always been kind to merger-related spinoffs. As part of the Safeway-Albertsons merger, the companies agreed in early 2015 to sell 146 locations to Bellingham-based Haggen, which saw the purchase as key to an ambitious expansion. But in less than a year, Haggen had filed for bankruptcy protection and ended up selling 29 of its “core” stores … to Albertsons.
Kroger was my first high school job. It was a very tiny store…only 5 short aisles in the Warwood neighborhood of Wheeling, WV. Thinking back it was a real lifeline. Due to the topography of the mountains and the Ohio river it was easily a 20 minute drive in any direction to get to another grocery store…which I suppose isn’t far for a rural place but we were inside the city with a population of 35,000. The store being so small also weirdly meant I got to do almost everything save for work in the office or order things. Why they trusted a 16 year old with the deli slicer and bailing machine and forklift I don’t know. Since I moved away the store has doubled in size but it still the small Kroger I have ever seen.
Now I am in Cincinnati, home to Kroger HQ and the stores definitely vary by neighborhood. The Kroger nearest to me was the first Kroger Marketplace. That concept has evolved over time. Occasionally it has been useful to pick up a pack of undershirts or underwear while grocery shopping. How they convinced a jewelry store to rent out 600 square feet is beyond me. That spot is now greeting cards and seasonal stuff.
posted by mmascolino at 9:33 PM on October 14, 2022
Now I am in Cincinnati, home to Kroger HQ and the stores definitely vary by neighborhood. The Kroger nearest to me was the first Kroger Marketplace. That concept has evolved over time. Occasionally it has been useful to pick up a pack of undershirts or underwear while grocery shopping. How they convinced a jewelry store to rent out 600 square feet is beyond me. That spot is now greeting cards and seasonal stuff.
posted by mmascolino at 9:33 PM on October 14, 2022
I was oddly bummed out about the Hagen bankruptcy and buyout, I used to really like the Haggens, and my only walkable supermarket in Bellingham was the Albertsons, which was…functional, but sort of weirdly stocked and oddly depressing, and somehow not actually any cheaper than the better supermarkets in town (something I’ve noticed is also often true of Safeway) I haven’t been back for a while, but I hope they’ve survived in something close to their original form.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 1:13 AM on October 15, 2022
posted by Jon Mitchell at 1:13 AM on October 15, 2022
I enthusiastically recommend the seemingly unaffiliated Dragon Star markets in St. Paul and Brooklyn Park for everyday goods and Ocean Star foods in St. Paul for bulk purchases.
Yes, agree, the locally-run places like this seem to be doing well enough that the larger chains in this market haven't felt motivated to move in.
Another locally-run Twin Cities mini-chain that I forgot about: Oxendales. There are only three of them, but they're kind of nice without being in that expensive bracket, and feel like going grocery shopping with my Mom when I was a kid.
posted by gimonca at 7:11 AM on October 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yes, agree, the locally-run places like this seem to be doing well enough that the larger chains in this market haven't felt motivated to move in.
Another locally-run Twin Cities mini-chain that I forgot about: Oxendales. There are only three of them, but they're kind of nice without being in that expensive bracket, and feel like going grocery shopping with my Mom when I was a kid.
posted by gimonca at 7:11 AM on October 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
Errol Schweizer, who goes by "grocery_nerd" on Twitter, explains exactly why this is such a terrible idea.
It's rather amusing to read a critique in Forbes that has several elements that wouldn't be out of place coming directly from Karl Marx.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:36 AM on October 15, 2022
It's rather amusing to read a critique in Forbes that has several elements that wouldn't be out of place coming directly from Karl Marx.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:36 AM on October 15, 2022
I chuckled to see Tom Thumb in the post title; my first non-babysitting job was bagging groceries at a Tom Thumb in the Dallas suburbs. Our family shopped at Albertsons, so Tom Thumb seemed slightly fancy to me, with its baked-in-house sourdough bread and exotic produce (starfruit! never heard of it in the early 90s; it was disappointingly bland, at least by the time it got to Texas) and a sit-down deli. Tom Thumb also owned Simon David, a gourmet/specialty grocery store in the wealthy part of Dallas, long before Central Market and Whole Foods entered the scene, and that lent the chain a bit of an upscale air as well. Simon David closed about 10 years ago and Tom Thumb is owned by Albertsons now so it's probably just a generic grocery store these days, but damn, that sourdough was good.
posted by Tuba Toothpaste at 8:55 AM on October 15, 2022
posted by Tuba Toothpaste at 8:55 AM on October 15, 2022
At my local Safeway, they never have more than 3 aisles open and most of the clerks refuse to even bag your groceries.
Makes me wonder if the Drive Up and Go packers are unionized, because that part of the store always has more than 3 people in it filling bags.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 6:13 PM on October 15, 2022
Makes me wonder if the Drive Up and Go packers are unionized, because that part of the store always has more than 3 people in it filling bags.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 6:13 PM on October 15, 2022
As I mentioned earlier, Matt Stoller, who writes BIG, has written about the potential merger, and it’s a private equity disaster coming. Highly recommend.
posted by General Malaise at 1:58 PM on October 18, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by General Malaise at 1:58 PM on October 18, 2022 [3 favorites]
Within a year, one could hear Genuardi's radio ads stating "We've heard your complaints, and we're adjusting..."
They used to make incredible and cheap crusty bread at the one in Springfield, until Safeway bought out the company and put a stop to that. No good reason to shop there, after that.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:52 AM on October 26, 2022
They used to make incredible and cheap crusty bread at the one in Springfield, until Safeway bought out the company and put a stop to that. No good reason to shop there, after that.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:52 AM on October 26, 2022
Apparently several states have raised objections to the merger, or at least to some of the private equity firm's stripping of assets.
The Private Equity Guys Trying to Shoplift a Supermarket Chain Before They Sell Itposted by Nerd of the North at 11:47 AM on November 7, 2022
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And QFC as well. The nature of capitalism is self-contradictory and unsustainable: capitalism concentrates wealth and larger corporations buy out their smaller competitors, leading to less competition, then monopolies, and then price gouging (which the corporate media reports using the misleading term "inflation"). We've seen this play out repeatedly, even in our own lifetimes.
Capitalism sounds great on paper, but it doesn't work in real life.
posted by AlSweigart at 6:05 AM on October 14, 2022 [51 favorites]