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October 28, 2022 4:11 AM Subscribe
Youtube creator GiantGrantGames gives the details of how Youtube assigns the ads on a video, why there are so many ads there now and only more coming in the future, and what you can do about it (hint: uBlock Origin), in a video titled YouTube Ads Are Getting Insane And I Hate It. It also reminds us that, in 2023, you won't be able to block ads in Chrome anymore.
Come for the information, stay for the entertaining fake ads throughout the video!
tl;dw? Get Firefox and use uBlock Origin, and send Patreon donations to channels you want to support.
Come for the information, stay for the entertaining fake ads throughout the video!
tl;dw? Get Firefox and use uBlock Origin, and send Patreon donations to channels you want to support.
A fascist billionaire buys Twitter and now even more ads are coming to YouTube. Dystopia isn’t fun. I’m not enjoying it
posted by glaucon at 4:16 AM on October 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by glaucon at 4:16 AM on October 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
But at least there are good people posting ways to skirt the ads. Thank you, JHarris!
posted by glaucon at 4:18 AM on October 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by glaucon at 4:18 AM on October 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
along with Ublock Origin, which I cannot recommend highly enough, I also enjoy SponsorBlock for automated skipping of so-called "sponsored content". Data on what to skip is crowd-sourced from its users, so the more popular the video, the better it works.
posted by namewithoutwords at 4:30 AM on October 28, 2022 [13 favorites]
posted by namewithoutwords at 4:30 AM on October 28, 2022 [13 favorites]
I hadn't heard about Google's plan to kill adblockers in Chrome. Thanks for the heads up. Finally getting around to downloading Firefox now.
posted by rikschell at 4:40 AM on October 28, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 4:40 AM on October 28, 2022 [10 favorites]
in 2023, you won't be able to block ads in Chrome anymore.
Oh god, what? And we've got three chromebooks in the house, too. I guess I'm gonna have to RTFA. Or...WTFV. Or whatever abbreviation we decided on.
posted by mittens at 4:48 AM on October 28, 2022 [6 favorites]
Oh god, what? And we've got three chromebooks in the house, too. I guess I'm gonna have to RTFA. Or...WTFV. Or whatever abbreviation we decided on.
posted by mittens at 4:48 AM on October 28, 2022 [6 favorites]
It is not just the adverts - but seemingly YouTube's love of boosting the frequency of the particularly awful ones. If you say "Granny I got the job - and they are paying what I asked for!" to somebody in the UK who has been remotely near Youtube - they will know what you mean. (this particular advert is made still worse by the existence of a German version where the girl's salary is EUR 51,300 - as opposed to GBP 34,600. So about 20% lower salary if you are a Brit, by my calculations).
posted by rongorongo at 4:53 AM on October 28, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by rongorongo at 4:53 AM on October 28, 2022 [6 favorites]
I use Safari with the Vinegar - Tube Cleaner extension. This replaces the YouTube video player with a regular HTML video tag, and as a useful side-effect, the ads are gone. Not affiliated, just a happy customer.
posted by techSupp0rt at 5:03 AM on October 28, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by techSupp0rt at 5:03 AM on October 28, 2022 [5 favorites]
My favorite ones are the picture-in-picture ads that are superimposed on top of the content I actually came to see, starting usually about a full minute before the end of the video. They’re great! They obscure whatever the fuck I actually wanted to see, and it seems as if content creators have no idea how to work around them so the ending of most videos is just flat ruined.
I don’t really have any issue with a platform trying to make money. I very much DO have an issue with a platform being so stupid about the approach that they make their content unusable in favor of the ads. But that really seems like a self-correcting issue on a lot of fronts, doesn’t it? Once you start going down the failing revenue spiral, you can’t climb back out of that well by throwing more ads in, because that makes the users leave faster…
posted by caution live frogs at 5:26 AM on October 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
I don’t really have any issue with a platform trying to make money. I very much DO have an issue with a platform being so stupid about the approach that they make their content unusable in favor of the ads. But that really seems like a self-correcting issue on a lot of fronts, doesn’t it? Once you start going down the failing revenue spiral, you can’t climb back out of that well by throwing more ads in, because that makes the users leave faster…
posted by caution live frogs at 5:26 AM on October 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
The adblock -more ads-adblock-more ads feedback loop is absolutely bananas. And the monetization-theft thing is even worse.
I don't watch a ton of YouTube, but when I do, it's almost always with adblockers turned on. On the rare occasion that I watch with the app on mobile, I almost always ragequit when I hit the first ad insert. Like, I can deal with 10 seconds of preroll, but when the video gets interrupted? Nope, sorry. Literally no content is that useful to me. I am obviously not the target market for anything on YouTube.
Obviously it's a tough spot for creators, but as he says in this video, there are other ways to support them if you're a regular consumer of a channel.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:27 AM on October 28, 2022 [7 favorites]
I don't watch a ton of YouTube, but when I do, it's almost always with adblockers turned on. On the rare occasion that I watch with the app on mobile, I almost always ragequit when I hit the first ad insert. Like, I can deal with 10 seconds of preroll, but when the video gets interrupted? Nope, sorry. Literally no content is that useful to me. I am obviously not the target market for anything on YouTube.
Obviously it's a tough spot for creators, but as he says in this video, there are other ways to support them if you're a regular consumer of a channel.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:27 AM on October 28, 2022 [7 favorites]
bUt GoOgLe ChRoMe Is OpEn SoUrCe
(Safari + Vinegar ftw, if you can get it)
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 5:27 AM on October 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
(Safari + Vinegar ftw, if you can get it)
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 5:27 AM on October 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
What gets me is how incredibly _thin_ the online video advertising market feels. Ok, online video streaming is an expensive proposition and needs to be ad supported, let's just accept that for a moment. Then why is it that (outside of election season) I swear I only see about the same 10 or so ads nonstop. I know it's the joy of algorithmically selected ads saying, well, late-40's white male with these known interests, uh. Let's give him the same five or six ads - gutter guards, eggos, Target delivery and luxo-barge SUVs? sure!
The few times I see good ol' broadcast TV I'm shocked at how many different ads there are, and how many categories of ads I haven't seen in _years_.
posted by Kyol at 5:43 AM on October 28, 2022 [14 favorites]
The few times I see good ol' broadcast TV I'm shocked at how many different ads there are, and how many categories of ads I haven't seen in _years_.
posted by Kyol at 5:43 AM on October 28, 2022 [14 favorites]
I use Safari and Adblock Plus (free). It works 100% on YouTube... at least it does today.
It's not really computer users they are going after. It's smart TVs with youtube apps they are going to pound into submission. There was a pretty big uptick at the start of the pandemic and I've noticed another huge jump in the last few months. Ad frequency is now higher than broadcast TV ever was and the duration of some ads is insane - like 15 minutes long. I also think the endless St. Jude's cancer kids ads are a great money spinner for Youtube because eventually you will just have to get Premium to avoid seeing dying kids on your TV twenty times a day.
posted by srboisvert at 5:49 AM on October 28, 2022 [7 favorites]
It's not really computer users they are going after. It's smart TVs with youtube apps they are going to pound into submission. There was a pretty big uptick at the start of the pandemic and I've noticed another huge jump in the last few months. Ad frequency is now higher than broadcast TV ever was and the duration of some ads is insane - like 15 minutes long. I also think the endless St. Jude's cancer kids ads are a great money spinner for Youtube because eventually you will just have to get Premium to avoid seeing dying kids on your TV twenty times a day.
posted by srboisvert at 5:49 AM on October 28, 2022 [7 favorites]
While I'm not thrilled with ads, I'm OK with them. It's the stupid overlays that Caution Live Frogs mentioned that really frick my oga. I installed a blocker to deal with them, and only them. Naturally, some later videos have cutouts for them to show related videos, so you just can't win.
Arggggg.
posted by Spike Glee at 5:55 AM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
Arggggg.
posted by Spike Glee at 5:55 AM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
Frankly, it's the same model that cable TV had: pay us money, and there'll be almost no ads. Then ads started, and kept coming. It worked then and it'll work now, and the number of streaming services & options that have no ads will dwindle.
I do agree that the YouTube ads have gotten very aggressive.
The few times I see good ol' broadcast TV I'm shocked at how many different ads there are, and how many categories of ads I haven't seen in _years_.
Totally, Kyol, this is my experience too. Maybe actually personalizing and targeting people for ads just... doesn't work from that angle? And there are only 5 ads that still apply to me? But I will say on the rare occasions I watch broadcast TV with commercials, the ads are way wrong for me – lots of Icy Hot and Aspercreme ads during Jeopardy!, for instance. (Few more years, gang, but not quite yet....)
Related: I turned off all ad personalization options on LinkedIn, and LinkedIn has NO IDEA what ads to show me. The variety is stunning. Large industrial equipment? Selling dental implants to underserved communities? Plastic bubble packaging for shipping? All of it. It's entertaining.
posted by hijinx at 5:57 AM on October 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
I do agree that the YouTube ads have gotten very aggressive.
The few times I see good ol' broadcast TV I'm shocked at how many different ads there are, and how many categories of ads I haven't seen in _years_.
Totally, Kyol, this is my experience too. Maybe actually personalizing and targeting people for ads just... doesn't work from that angle? And there are only 5 ads that still apply to me? But I will say on the rare occasions I watch broadcast TV with commercials, the ads are way wrong for me – lots of Icy Hot and Aspercreme ads during Jeopardy!, for instance. (Few more years, gang, but not quite yet....)
Related: I turned off all ad personalization options on LinkedIn, and LinkedIn has NO IDEA what ads to show me. The variety is stunning. Large industrial equipment? Selling dental implants to underserved communities? Plastic bubble packaging for shipping? All of it. It's entertaining.
posted by hijinx at 5:57 AM on October 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
I guess I missed the memo where Google changed the corporate motto to "OK, go ahead and be evil."
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 6:20 AM on October 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 6:20 AM on October 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
I guess I'm with thoroughburro in that it's worth the $12.89 that I pay for a YT account to be ad free. I use YT for a lot of different content so it's easily compared to some other subscription channel fee.
fwiw - subscription gets you ad free creator content, music, and full length movies.
posted by djseafood at 6:28 AM on October 28, 2022 [5 favorites]
fwiw - subscription gets you ad free creator content, music, and full length movies.
posted by djseafood at 6:28 AM on October 28, 2022 [5 favorites]
They having just turned evil of course didn't issue a memo instead the conduct clause was first watered down to "do the right thing" with the transition to Alphabet in 2015 and then the water downed version dropped in spring 2018.
posted by Mitheral at 6:31 AM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Mitheral at 6:31 AM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
It was at least as far back as the Authors' Guild suit when they scanned a whole bunch of books (including mine) and then made them available for free online regardless of copyright. That was maybe ten or fifteen years ago.
posted by joannemerriam at 6:40 AM on October 28, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by joannemerriam at 6:40 AM on October 28, 2022 [5 favorites]
I have been running a pihole on my home network for years now, and the difference it makes is incredible. The other day I had to turn off the manual DNS server settings on my iPad that pointed to the pihole (on rare occasions it causes trouble with loading a website) and I couldn't believe how unusable the internet has become without ad blocking. Websites took forever to load, pages I check every day were choked with ads.
posted by fimbulvetr at 6:42 AM on October 28, 2022 [15 favorites]
posted by fimbulvetr at 6:42 AM on October 28, 2022 [15 favorites]
$15 per month for no ads on YouTube, on any device or network, with no blocking setup, is a no brainer for what we get out of it.
I felt this way too! And then last week I got an email that the price for our YT premium family plan is going up 28% next month. It's a really cool business model where they make a product worse (with more ads, unblockable on their platform) and then charge you to make it tolerable again.
posted by specialagentwebb at 6:46 AM on October 28, 2022 [6 favorites]
I felt this way too! And then last week I got an email that the price for our YT premium family plan is going up 28% next month. It's a really cool business model where they make a product worse (with more ads, unblockable on their platform) and then charge you to make it tolerable again.
posted by specialagentwebb at 6:46 AM on October 28, 2022 [6 favorites]
Be glad your price isn't going up 60% like mine is. Still worth it, but it stings a bit to have it jump so much in one whack. At least I get until April.
That said, I've been paying $14.99 a month for up to six accounts (I share it with four other people) ever since they introduced the Play Music All Access (includes YouTube Red!) family plan, which was probably around 8 years ago, so it's still way less than the price creep of other entertainment options. Plus the creators get more than a hundredth of a cent for my views, so they get paid more and I don't have to watch the ads. As many different things as I watch, there's no way I could support them all on Patreon.
posted by wierdo at 6:54 AM on October 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
That said, I've been paying $14.99 a month for up to six accounts (I share it with four other people) ever since they introduced the Play Music All Access (includes YouTube Red!) family plan, which was probably around 8 years ago, so it's still way less than the price creep of other entertainment options. Plus the creators get more than a hundredth of a cent for my views, so they get paid more and I don't have to watch the ads. As many different things as I watch, there's no way I could support them all on Patreon.
posted by wierdo at 6:54 AM on October 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
I get almost 80% ads for this tic-tac thing the youths use. I've been tolerant because at least they aren't political ads. Also using my phone for Duolingo has led to about 25% of my ads in Spanish, which, ha, trick's on them, I'm using for learning.
posted by cobaltnine at 6:56 AM on October 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by cobaltnine at 6:56 AM on October 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
I have been running a pihole on my home network for years now,
I also use a pi-hole for DNS. On top of that Firefox + uBlock Origin + Privacy Badger from the EFF makes the internet usable for me.
posted by mikelieman at 7:01 AM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
I also use a pi-hole for DNS. On top of that Firefox + uBlock Origin + Privacy Badger from the EFF makes the internet usable for me.
posted by mikelieman at 7:01 AM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
Ad blockers are not a convenience tool. They are as much a security tool as antivirus programs are . Ad networks are regularly used to distribute malware, expose users to phishing scams, and not just on the kind of sites you'd think of as "sketchy".
The ad tech industry is likely bigger than you think, and there's no way anybody can stop the bad stuff from slipping through the cracks when people are basically passing around arbitrary chunks of JavaScript to run on your local news station's website.
Sorry about your business model, internet, but I'm not going to get pwned because some clickjacking attack exploiting a zero-day in my browser turned my computer into an ad fraud bot. I wouldn't browse the web without antivirus, and I won't browse the web without uBlock Origin either. The fact that adblockers make the web usable again is merely a bonus.
posted by The Lurkers Support Me in Email at 7:18 AM on October 28, 2022 [24 favorites]
The ad tech industry is likely bigger than you think, and there's no way anybody can stop the bad stuff from slipping through the cracks when people are basically passing around arbitrary chunks of JavaScript to run on your local news station's website.
Sorry about your business model, internet, but I'm not going to get pwned because some clickjacking attack exploiting a zero-day in my browser turned my computer into an ad fraud bot. I wouldn't browse the web without antivirus, and I won't browse the web without uBlock Origin either. The fact that adblockers make the web usable again is merely a bonus.
posted by The Lurkers Support Me in Email at 7:18 AM on October 28, 2022 [24 favorites]
Just a reminder that if you use uBlock Origin, turn it off here at metafilter. Let them get that sweet sweet ad revenue.
posted by nushustu at 7:24 AM on October 28, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by nushustu at 7:24 AM on October 28, 2022 [10 favorites]
Another happy Safari + Vinegar user on my phone and at home. Chrome is what I use at work, and I view it as basically Internet Explorer with several helpful extensions that do things I need for work.
posted by emelenjr at 7:38 AM on October 28, 2022
posted by emelenjr at 7:38 AM on October 28, 2022
I use uBlock Origin on my computers and see very few ads, but 95% of my YouTube watching is on my TV via a Roku stick. If I subscribe to YouTube Premium, is that going to translate over to my watching on Roku?
posted by briank at 8:05 AM on October 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by briank at 8:05 AM on October 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
Also check out Invidious (link is to the list of instances).
Invidious automatically strips out the ads etc.—I discovered it after YouTube became functionally unusable for the follow-alongs, guided meditations, and educational content that I use it for. At one point I got a 30-second ad every 2 minutes of reel time! Anyway now I can use YouTube again. YMMV etc.
posted by migrantology at 8:08 AM on October 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
Invidious automatically strips out the ads etc.—I discovered it after YouTube became functionally unusable for the follow-alongs, guided meditations, and educational content that I use it for. At one point I got a 30-second ad every 2 minutes of reel time! Anyway now I can use YouTube again. YMMV etc.
posted by migrantology at 8:08 AM on October 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
It's not really computer users they are going after. It's smart TVs with youtube apps they are going to pound into submission. There was a pretty big uptick at the start of the pandemic and I've noticed another huge jump in the last few months.
THIS. I largely watch Youtube on my smart TV - and like migrantology, I am now seeing ads every two minutes, and it is always the same ad every two minutes.
If anyone can please tell me how I can put an adblocker on my SmartTV (Amazon Fire TV to be precise) I will be hyperventilating in gratitude.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:14 AM on October 28, 2022 [6 favorites]
THIS. I largely watch Youtube on my smart TV - and like migrantology, I am now seeing ads every two minutes, and it is always the same ad every two minutes.
If anyone can please tell me how I can put an adblocker on my SmartTV (Amazon Fire TV to be precise) I will be hyperventilating in gratitude.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:14 AM on October 28, 2022 [6 favorites]
I’m having pretty good luck with Brave as my browser, so far. I’m sure I’ll find out that Brave is evil somehow but at the moment, it’s a blissful love affair uninterrupted every five minutes by ads for vacation rentals voiced by a woman famous on Youtube for making slime squishing videos.
posted by terridrawsstuff at 8:43 AM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by terridrawsstuff at 8:43 AM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
Firefox+uBlock Origin and I was just wondering yesterday how come the videos I've been searching YouTube for are so ad-free, for me. I figure it's just because what I want is so obscure, it isn't "monetized" (yet).
posted by Rash at 8:46 AM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Rash at 8:46 AM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
I have no problems paying $X/mo for an ad-free experience. I have a HUGE SHOWSTOPPER PROBLEM with having to log in and let them track everything I watch/read in order to use that paid-for experience. I'm not sure there is a solution to that that isn't theft+tipjar.
posted by CyberSlug Labs at 8:49 AM on October 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by CyberSlug Labs at 8:49 AM on October 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
There's a deeper, systemic problem with ads: they destroy non-advertising businesses. A company that doesn't push algorithmic ads is leaving revenue on the table, and a competitor that does can use that revenue to undercut the first company and drive them out of business. But they also destroying advertising businesses, because you have to adjust the business to suit the ads (which is why everything on Facebook newsfeed looks the same despite—the ads have to be indistinguishable, even if it means poor design for everything else). The ads division has way higher profit margins, so it tends to win internal fights, and is the division that survives when a company crunches in size.
The best metaphor is that it's a communicable cancer. A minimal legal requirement that forced all advertising through a nontrivial human review before an ad can be accepted for placement would do more good for the Internet than anything else I can think of.
posted by madhadron at 8:58 AM on October 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
The best metaphor is that it's a communicable cancer. A minimal legal requirement that forced all advertising through a nontrivial human review before an ad can be accepted for placement would do more good for the Internet than anything else I can think of.
posted by madhadron at 8:58 AM on October 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
I know it's the joy of algorithmically selected ads saying, well, late-40's white male with these known interests, uh. Let's give him the same five or six ads - gutter guards, eggos, Target delivery and luxo-barge SUVs? sure!
I dunno. I think there might be something to the idea that their pool of advertisers really is thin.
This was facebook rather than youtube. I'm an early 50s whiteboy whose facebook posts consist mostly of our dogs, jokey memes, anonymously poking fun at terrible student test answers, and maybe science fiction or cars. Maybe a year ago or thereabouts, facebook decided that they should almost exclusively send me ads for a sub-brand of Depends that seemed specifically intended for Black women. For several weeks.
I kinda think they just didn't have anything better to show me? At least not for that subset of ads that are right there in your "news feed" and so hard for ublock to hit; I dunno what the ads ublock blocked were.
(To be clear: normalizing common medical issues is great! Medical supplies for all skin tones is super great! But I'm not in the group you seem to be marketing to, is all)
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:39 AM on October 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
I dunno. I think there might be something to the idea that their pool of advertisers really is thin.
This was facebook rather than youtube. I'm an early 50s whiteboy whose facebook posts consist mostly of our dogs, jokey memes, anonymously poking fun at terrible student test answers, and maybe science fiction or cars. Maybe a year ago or thereabouts, facebook decided that they should almost exclusively send me ads for a sub-brand of Depends that seemed specifically intended for Black women. For several weeks.
I kinda think they just didn't have anything better to show me? At least not for that subset of ads that are right there in your "news feed" and so hard for ublock to hit; I dunno what the ads ublock blocked were.
(To be clear: normalizing common medical issues is great! Medical supplies for all skin tones is super great! But I'm not in the group you seem to be marketing to, is all)
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:39 AM on October 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
If I subscribe to YouTube Premium, is that going to translate over to my watching on Roku?
It works anywhere you can login. Web, smartphone, TV, whatever.
I've long since resigned myself to accepting being tracked by Google, and TBH I don't really care unless they start selling the data they have compiled on me to other people. They have a pretty good incentive not to do that, so I don't worry too much.
posted by wierdo at 9:52 AM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
It works anywhere you can login. Web, smartphone, TV, whatever.
I've long since resigned myself to accepting being tracked by Google, and TBH I don't really care unless they start selling the data they have compiled on me to other people. They have a pretty good incentive not to do that, so I don't worry too much.
posted by wierdo at 9:52 AM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
If you run windows there seems to be an easy fix (?)
Stop Chrome from auto updating. Just tried it, hope Chrome stays cool into 2023 for me.
posted by Meatbomb at 9:56 AM on October 28, 2022
Stop Chrome from auto updating. Just tried it, hope Chrome stays cool into 2023 for me.
posted by Meatbomb at 9:56 AM on October 28, 2022
The thinness and poor targeting of advertising on Meta and Alphabet streaming products is in large part because they are super user-unfriendly for advertisers.
Low-touch customer service is simply bred into the institutional bone there.
You need a very big budget to have the ability to have human being at a call center to talk to you (but won't have any power to do anything for you).
The kind of budgets that, spent at (say) ESPN and ABC get you a VP and his team of analysts at your call 24-7 and your family flown private every year for an all-stops-pulled week at Disneyworld ... when spent at Meta or Alphabet get you assigned to a 30-year rep who will do one Zoom a quarter with you to review your analytics.
posted by MattD at 10:00 AM on October 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
Low-touch customer service is simply bred into the institutional bone there.
You need a very big budget to have the ability to have human being at a call center to talk to you (but won't have any power to do anything for you).
The kind of budgets that, spent at (say) ESPN and ABC get you a VP and his team of analysts at your call 24-7 and your family flown private every year for an all-stops-pulled week at Disneyworld ... when spent at Meta or Alphabet get you assigned to a 30-year rep who will do one Zoom a quarter with you to review your analytics.
posted by MattD at 10:00 AM on October 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
If I see a Youtube ad (happens on my phone), I just kill the app. Not worth it. I don't have a plan for the Chrome ad-blocking change though. Main thing keeping me on Chrome is a huge tab backlog.
The kind of budgets that, spent at (say) ESPN and ABC get you a VP and his team of analysts at your call 24-7 and your family flown private every year for an all-stops-pulled week at Disneyworld ... when spent at Meta or Alphabet get you assigned to a 30-year rep who will do one Zoom a quarter with you to review your analytics.
This does kinda make me like Google and Facebook again. Reminds me of the story of Google hiring its first lobbyist. When we were young.
posted by grobstein at 10:37 AM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
The kind of budgets that, spent at (say) ESPN and ABC get you a VP and his team of analysts at your call 24-7 and your family flown private every year for an all-stops-pulled week at Disneyworld ... when spent at Meta or Alphabet get you assigned to a 30-year rep who will do one Zoom a quarter with you to review your analytics.
This does kinda make me like Google and Facebook again. Reminds me of the story of Google hiring its first lobbyist. When we were young.
posted by grobstein at 10:37 AM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
Stop Chrome from auto updating. Just tried it, hope Chrome stays cool into 2023 for me.
Please, please, please keep your browser up to date and do not use a web browser that's deliberately outdated. Running an up-to-date web browser is one of if not the most important things you can do for the security of your machine. There's a reason why browser vendors have put so much effort into auto-updating and why they will drop everything and rush out updates ASAP in the event of a serious security vulnerability, and steadfastly refusing to update your browser will quickly leave you vulnerable. For example, Chrome released an update last month to fix a serious zero-day security vulnerability that was being actively exploited...oh wait, they did that again just today.
By all means use another browser if you have a problem with Chrome, but it's not safe to keep using an old version of Chrome indefinitely.
posted by zachlipton at 11:13 AM on October 28, 2022 [16 favorites]
Please, please, please keep your browser up to date and do not use a web browser that's deliberately outdated. Running an up-to-date web browser is one of if not the most important things you can do for the security of your machine. There's a reason why browser vendors have put so much effort into auto-updating and why they will drop everything and rush out updates ASAP in the event of a serious security vulnerability, and steadfastly refusing to update your browser will quickly leave you vulnerable. For example, Chrome released an update last month to fix a serious zero-day security vulnerability that was being actively exploited...oh wait, they did that again just today.
By all means use another browser if you have a problem with Chrome, but it's not safe to keep using an old version of Chrome indefinitely.
posted by zachlipton at 11:13 AM on October 28, 2022 [16 favorites]
One of the things I forget while not seeing ads on YT via ublock is that when I watch a video I want to share that in all likelihood the people I share it with will not have the same experience as me. I tried watching YT on the TV's built-in support for it and no can do (I now have a tiny pc whose sole job is to run firefox with my blocking plugins through that TV for when I want to sit on the couch and watch youtube stuff.)
I'd consider paying for YT premium (seeing as I watch a lot of YT) if I thought it wouldn't end up being yet another $100/mo for diminishing returns, or seeing ads creep back in.
posted by maxwelton at 11:39 AM on October 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'd consider paying for YT premium (seeing as I watch a lot of YT) if I thought it wouldn't end up being yet another $100/mo for diminishing returns, or seeing ads creep back in.
posted by maxwelton at 11:39 AM on October 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
I dunno. I think there might be something to the idea that their pool of advertisers really is thin.
This was facebook rather than youtube. I'm an early 50s whiteboy whose facebook posts consist mostly of our dogs, jokey memes, anonymously poking fun at terrible student test answers, and maybe science fiction or cars. Maybe a year ago or thereabouts, facebook decided that they should almost exclusively send me ads for a sub-brand of Depends that seemed specifically intended for Black women. For several weeks.
I get a bunch of big consumer company ads for things I might actually buy from companies I might even buy from on Facebook but hilariously when I do click on the ads it turns out most of the offers were from months ago and expired or that they are out of stock of what they advertised to me. IT IS JUST SO DUMB. I sometime wonder if they are just zombie advertising accounts running on automatic that companies have forgotten about or lost control of because the employees who knew about the account have moved on.
posted by srboisvert at 11:45 AM on October 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
This was facebook rather than youtube. I'm an early 50s whiteboy whose facebook posts consist mostly of our dogs, jokey memes, anonymously poking fun at terrible student test answers, and maybe science fiction or cars. Maybe a year ago or thereabouts, facebook decided that they should almost exclusively send me ads for a sub-brand of Depends that seemed specifically intended for Black women. For several weeks.
I get a bunch of big consumer company ads for things I might actually buy from companies I might even buy from on Facebook but hilariously when I do click on the ads it turns out most of the offers were from months ago and expired or that they are out of stock of what they advertised to me. IT IS JUST SO DUMB. I sometime wonder if they are just zombie advertising accounts running on automatic that companies have forgotten about or lost control of because the employees who knew about the account have moved on.
posted by srboisvert at 11:45 AM on October 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
I guess I missed the memo where Google changed the corporate motto to "OK, go ahead and be evil."
It was graduated.
posted by mightygodking at 12:21 PM on October 28, 2022
It was graduated.
posted by mightygodking at 12:21 PM on October 28, 2022
I’m sure I’ll find out that Brave is evil somehow
Always has been.
posted by ook at 12:44 PM on October 28, 2022 [7 favorites]
Always has been.
posted by ook at 12:44 PM on October 28, 2022 [7 favorites]
I’m sure I’ll find out that Brave is evil somehow
I don't care if it's the lovechild of Pol Pot and Stalin, I'm not going back to watching ads.
posted by 445supermag at 1:57 PM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don't care if it's the lovechild of Pol Pot and Stalin, I'm not going back to watching ads.
posted by 445supermag at 1:57 PM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
I use the Brave Browser on my ipad and iphone and it works great for blocking youtube ads.
posted by ShakeyJake at 2:15 PM on October 28, 2022
posted by ShakeyJake at 2:15 PM on October 28, 2022
I don't care [if The Brave Browser is] the lovechild of Pol Pot and Stalin...
The more mundane reality is that Bave is the lovechild of a homophobe and crypto bro.
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 2:48 PM on October 28, 2022 [5 favorites]
The more mundane reality is that Bave is the lovechild of a homophobe and crypto bro.
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 2:48 PM on October 28, 2022 [5 favorites]
Pihole FTW. Also, if you run OpenWRT on your router, you can just get AdBlock as a package, stop ads at the router, and use whatever browser you please.
posted by eclectist at 2:53 PM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by eclectist at 2:53 PM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
> I’m sure I’ll find out that Brave is evil somehow
I don't care if it's the lovechild of Pol Pot and Stalin, I'm not going back to watching ads.
Good thing Evil Browsers aren't the only option for ad-free times!
posted by trig at 3:00 PM on October 28, 2022
I don't care if it's the lovechild of Pol Pot and Stalin, I'm not going back to watching ads.
Good thing Evil Browsers aren't the only option for ad-free times!
posted by trig at 3:00 PM on October 28, 2022
Safari Adguard on my mac. Firefox with uBlock Origin in my android phone.
Youtube has ads?
posted by signal at 3:00 PM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
Youtube has ads?
posted by signal at 3:00 PM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
Vivaldi is a browser that has pretty decent adblock built in without requiring extensions. (Useful if IT permits browser choice but not extensions. )
Can folks who have pi-hole set up on their network confirm that it actually blocks youtube ads?
posted by oceano at 3:36 PM on October 28, 2022
Can folks who have pi-hole set up on their network confirm that it actually blocks youtube ads?
posted by oceano at 3:36 PM on October 28, 2022
Can folks who have pi-hole set up on their network confirm that it actually blocks youtube ads?
Doesn't for me (at least, not ads that appear in the Youtube app on my Android phone while it is getting DNS from the pihole).
There's lots of ads its blocking strategy doesn't work for.
(But it's possible I'm configured wrong, so I'm curious if other people have different experiences.)
posted by grobstein at 3:42 PM on October 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
Doesn't for me (at least, not ads that appear in the Youtube app on my Android phone while it is getting DNS from the pihole).
There's lots of ads its blocking strategy doesn't work for.
(But it's possible I'm configured wrong, so I'm curious if other people have different experiences.)
posted by grobstein at 3:42 PM on October 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
While we’re complaining about YouTube, is there any good way to block the recommended videos from showing up alongside playing videos? I have YouTube premium, so I don’t see the ads, but I really hate seeing the algorithm’s suggestions when I’m not asking for anything.
posted by skewed at 4:25 PM on October 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by skewed at 4:25 PM on October 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
Yeah, my pihole doesn’t block YouTube ads. I don’t watch much on YouTube though, so it doesn’t bother me.
posted by fimbulvetr at 4:30 PM on October 28, 2022
posted by fimbulvetr at 4:30 PM on October 28, 2022
While we’re complaining about YouTube, is there any good way to block the recommended videos from showing up
I'm on my phone so no link, but if you use firefox, there is an extension i use called "unrecommender" which, assuming it's still working, removes all recommended videos not in the same channel as the one you're watching.
posted by maxwelton at 5:28 PM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm on my phone so no link, but if you use firefox, there is an extension i use called "unrecommender" which, assuming it's still working, removes all recommended videos not in the same channel as the one you're watching.
posted by maxwelton at 5:28 PM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
But I watch YouTube mostly on my TV so...I have no blocking ability.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:05 PM on October 28, 2022
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:05 PM on October 28, 2022
Unrecommender
(Apparently for chrome and firefox.)
Note: I'm not convinced it's still working as I just opened a vid and I'm seeing recommended vids which are not in my subscriptions or the same channel. Was glorious when it was working. Maybe it still is, I am not getting any joe rogan-type garbage, but...
posted by maxwelton at 6:20 PM on October 28, 2022
(Apparently for chrome and firefox.)
Note: I'm not convinced it's still working as I just opened a vid and I'm seeing recommended vids which are not in my subscriptions or the same channel. Was glorious when it was working. Maybe it still is, I am not getting any joe rogan-type garbage, but...
posted by maxwelton at 6:20 PM on October 28, 2022
I’m sure I’ll find out that Brave is evil somehow
I had to block Eich on twitter because he kept defending Brave's platforming of Nazis. So yeah, he's evil.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 7:38 PM on October 28, 2022
I had to block Eich on twitter because he kept defending Brave's platforming of Nazis. So yeah, he's evil.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 7:38 PM on October 28, 2022
I've been thinking of trying to get the Firefox (PC) -> Chromecast -> TV to work with a remote keyboard mouse for when I want to watch youtube on the TV.
With no idea of the problems yet.
posted by aleph at 8:17 PM on October 28, 2022
With no idea of the problems yet.
posted by aleph at 8:17 PM on October 28, 2022
Re: pihole, good luck buying a raspberry pi for a reasonable price these days. You could buy a cheap laptop for the same price. And I suppose you could set up the laptop as a media center and stream YouTube from it, running Firefox and adblocker.
posted by surlyben at 9:02 PM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by surlyben at 9:02 PM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
FIX your YOUTUBE EXPERIENCE: no ads, offline video, no algorithm, and more! Said video by the Linux Experiment points out that one can DIY a subscription feed with RSS.
posted by oceano at 11:09 PM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by oceano at 11:09 PM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
bUt GoOgLe ChRoMe Is OpEn SoUrCe
No it isn't, Chromium is. And I have a hard time imagining that adblockers will suddenly die on every Chromium fork.
I have been running a pihole on my home network for years now,
Same! But it can't block youtube video ads (in my region at least) since they serve them from the same servers (or well, servers behind the same domain) as the video content itself.
Re: pihole, good luck buying a raspberry pi for a reasonable price these days.
It'll run on pretty much any linux machine, so you don't actually need a raspberry pi. Pretty much any mini-pc, old laptop, or alternative single board computer should do just as well - it's a fairly lightweight application.
posted by Dysk at 1:23 AM on October 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
No it isn't, Chromium is. And I have a hard time imagining that adblockers will suddenly die on every Chromium fork.
I have been running a pihole on my home network for years now,
Same! But it can't block youtube video ads (in my region at least) since they serve them from the same servers (or well, servers behind the same domain) as the video content itself.
Re: pihole, good luck buying a raspberry pi for a reasonable price these days.
It'll run on pretty much any linux machine, so you don't actually need a raspberry pi. Pretty much any mini-pc, old laptop, or alternative single board computer should do just as well - it's a fairly lightweight application.
posted by Dysk at 1:23 AM on October 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
Firefox works with uBlock on mobile, and as a bonus you can also play YT videos with your screen off/locked without killing the audio if you want to use it for music playlists. I haven't used the official YT app in ages.
Also I don't know what the fuck YouTube changed yet again today but my subs and recommendations were totally fucked again, and I haven't watched any content that would warrant those changes. Like there was basically nothing from my actual subscriptions and channels I normally watch and it was like someone else's account entirely.
Every so often they force the "try new/different" content bullshit on me and I start getting spammed with bullshit alt right channels, Fox News and Fucker Tiresome even though I've blocked/delisted every iteration of Fox News channels I've ever seen, and I know it's fucking intentional algorithmic ragebait "engagement" nonsense.
It seems to mainly be back to normal now, but seriously what the fuck, YouTube? Stop forcing that shit into my feed. And I don't want to see your stupid "shorts" sub-channel ever again. It's somehow even worse than TikTok's toxic front page garbage feed.
posted by loquacious at 2:20 AM on October 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
Also I don't know what the fuck YouTube changed yet again today but my subs and recommendations were totally fucked again, and I haven't watched any content that would warrant those changes. Like there was basically nothing from my actual subscriptions and channels I normally watch and it was like someone else's account entirely.
Every so often they force the "try new/different" content bullshit on me and I start getting spammed with bullshit alt right channels, Fox News and Fucker Tiresome even though I've blocked/delisted every iteration of Fox News channels I've ever seen, and I know it's fucking intentional algorithmic ragebait "engagement" nonsense.
It seems to mainly be back to normal now, but seriously what the fuck, YouTube? Stop forcing that shit into my feed. And I don't want to see your stupid "shorts" sub-channel ever again. It's somehow even worse than TikTok's toxic front page garbage feed.
posted by loquacious at 2:20 AM on October 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
Guys, just switch to using Piped or Invidious. It's like Nitter for YouTube.
You can get all the functionality of YouTube, without ads, and for free this way.
posted by wandering zinnia at 2:25 AM on October 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
You can get all the functionality of YouTube, without ads, and for free this way.
posted by wandering zinnia at 2:25 AM on October 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
One option for the pihole is to put it on a VPS. Can get one for a low monthly or annual price. And then you’d have access to it even when traveling.
If you do this I strongly recommend looking at Tailscale, which is a kind of magic tool for flexibly putting all your computers (phones, etc.) on a VPN-like private network.
Insanely easy to use and has changed my life.
posted by grobstein at 10:59 AM on October 29, 2022
If you do this I strongly recommend looking at Tailscale, which is a kind of magic tool for flexibly putting all your computers (phones, etc.) on a VPN-like private network.
Insanely easy to use and has changed my life.
posted by grobstein at 10:59 AM on October 29, 2022
One option for the pihole is to put it on a VPS... Another option would be a VM
Or, if you have one, a NAS - here are some instructions for setting up on a QNAP system, for example.
posted by rongorongo at 12:08 PM on October 29, 2022
Or, if you have one, a NAS - here are some instructions for setting up on a QNAP system, for example.
posted by rongorongo at 12:08 PM on October 29, 2022
One other Google being evil thing that I have noticed is that Google TV's recommendation engine is now about 80% "free channels with advertising" show recommendations that I have not asked for and do not want. I assume this is just straight up recommendation payola.
posted by srboisvert at 9:03 AM on October 30, 2022
posted by srboisvert at 9:03 AM on October 30, 2022
just switch to using Piped or Invidious. It's like Nitter for YouTube.
Adding another suggestion to the pile: FreeTube.
posted by Too-Ticky at 9:48 AM on October 30, 2022
Adding another suggestion to the pile: FreeTube.
posted by Too-Ticky at 9:48 AM on October 30, 2022
So Firefox is cool again? Neat.
posted by dg at 9:59 PM on October 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by dg at 9:59 PM on October 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
> Can folks who have pi-hole set up on their network confirm that it actually blocks youtube ads?
There are two main types of ads on the internet - those that are delivered from dedicated servers (e.g. double-click or Google ad services, etc) and those that are delivered in with the rest of the content on a page, by the same server as the page itself. Pi-hole works by refusing to look up the IP addresses of known ad servers, so it stops the former type of ad but not the latter.
YouTube has (at least) three type of ad: ads delivered as part of the video stream, ads overlaid as banners on top of the video, and banner-style ads on the rest of the page. Pi-hole won't stop ads in the video stream but it does stop the rest, though the ads it stops still appear as transparent rectangles with a X close icon that works (it stops the content but not the container), which is slightly annoying when they are on top of the video.
I have to assume that services are going to get wise to this and start delivering ads from the same servers as the rest of their content but they seem surprisingly slow on the up-take so far. Perhaps the value of third party ad-management still outweighs the cost of pi-hole-style ad blockers, and perhaps the ad management networks are slow to come up with delivery systems that can be embedded server-side rather than client-side. It's bound to happen though :(
posted by merlynkline at 1:31 AM on October 31, 2022
There are two main types of ads on the internet - those that are delivered from dedicated servers (e.g. double-click or Google ad services, etc) and those that are delivered in with the rest of the content on a page, by the same server as the page itself. Pi-hole works by refusing to look up the IP addresses of known ad servers, so it stops the former type of ad but not the latter.
YouTube has (at least) three type of ad: ads delivered as part of the video stream, ads overlaid as banners on top of the video, and banner-style ads on the rest of the page. Pi-hole won't stop ads in the video stream but it does stop the rest, though the ads it stops still appear as transparent rectangles with a X close icon that works (it stops the content but not the container), which is slightly annoying when they are on top of the video.
I have to assume that services are going to get wise to this and start delivering ads from the same servers as the rest of their content but they seem surprisingly slow on the up-take so far. Perhaps the value of third party ad-management still outweighs the cost of pi-hole-style ad blockers, and perhaps the ad management networks are slow to come up with delivery systems that can be embedded server-side rather than client-side. It's bound to happen though :(
posted by merlynkline at 1:31 AM on October 31, 2022
Pretty sure uBlock/ABP/other browser plugins are much more widespread than pihole style adblockers, and can manager blocking ads served from the same server just fine, so it probably isn't worth the time to make sure you can't get round pihole style blockers (except in a few edge cases, like YouTube, which is heavily used from within mobile apps meaning that pihole style blockers are the only thing you're worried about).
posted by Dysk at 1:37 AM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Dysk at 1:37 AM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
I've been curious, ever since setting up a pihole and reading about how it can't block youtube ads (without some messing around--there are tutorials to do it, but it requires really staring at things hard while playing a video to figure out exactly where the ads are coming from, and then that's not permanent), but uBlock can, how does uBlock do it? What's it looking for, that pihole can't?
posted by mittens at 4:33 AM on October 31, 2022
posted by mittens at 4:33 AM on October 31, 2022
UBlock on Firefox mobile works fine to block all ads on youtube; one doesn't need pihole.
posted by Mitheral at 4:58 AM on October 31, 2022
posted by Mitheral at 4:58 AM on October 31, 2022
What's it looking for, that pihole can't?
It's looking at what your browser is along to render, whereas pihole is just looking at DNS. For a slightly simplified example, if the ads are coming from youtube.com/ads/whatever then uBlock can see that it's asking for an image or script or whatever from somewhere with /ads/ in the path, and tells your browser not to download our render it. Pihole just sees you looking up the IP for youtube.com, which you could tell pihole to block, but, well.
UBlock on Firefox mobile works fine to block all ads on youtube; one doesn't need pihole.
For those particular thing, sure. But uBlock won't help you with other in-app ads where you can't just use a website from Firefox instead, and pihole will help with most of those, in my experience. (Also can't run Firefox on most smart TVs and stuff).
posted by Dysk at 6:16 AM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
It's looking at what your browser is along to render, whereas pihole is just looking at DNS. For a slightly simplified example, if the ads are coming from youtube.com/ads/whatever then uBlock can see that it's asking for an image or script or whatever from somewhere with /ads/ in the path, and tells your browser not to download our render it. Pihole just sees you looking up the IP for youtube.com, which you could tell pihole to block, but, well.
UBlock on Firefox mobile works fine to block all ads on youtube; one doesn't need pihole.
For those particular thing, sure. But uBlock won't help you with other in-app ads where you can't just use a website from Firefox instead, and pihole will help with most of those, in my experience. (Also can't run Firefox on most smart TVs and stuff).
posted by Dysk at 6:16 AM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
how does uBlock do it? What's it looking for, that pihole can't?
Normally pihole will look just for domains on a blacklist as you say. However it can also be given lists of regular expressions to block - as described in this video tutorial - (there is a sample list included in the comments for this video)- you could have something like:
^https?://([A-Za-z0-9.-]*\.)?advertising\.com/
That makes it behave in rather the same way as uBlock - and it allows for finer tuning. It is a game of cat and mouse, however.
(If you have time to experiment, I would recommend trying pihole (with a suitably comprehensive set of blocklists list those provided by firebog) to see just how much traffic gets blocked - on my network it is about 12% of requests even with browser ad-blocks in place.)
posted by rongorongo at 3:17 AM on November 1, 2022
Normally pihole will look just for domains on a blacklist as you say. However it can also be given lists of regular expressions to block - as described in this video tutorial - (there is a sample list included in the comments for this video)- you could have something like:
^https?://([A-Za-z0-9.-]*\.)?advertising\.com/
That makes it behave in rather the same way as uBlock - and it allows for finer tuning. It is a game of cat and mouse, however.
(If you have time to experiment, I would recommend trying pihole (with a suitably comprehensive set of blocklists list those provided by firebog) to see just how much traffic gets blocked - on my network it is about 12% of requests even with browser ad-blocks in place.)
posted by rongorongo at 3:17 AM on November 1, 2022
Worth noting that even with all the regex, pihole still only looks at the domain component of the requested URL - it's helpful to block big CDNs that have a bunch of eg adserver[random_string].com domains, but doesn't help if the intended content and adverts are being served from the same (sub)domain. uBlock Origin (or anything else running in the browser) can block based on the full path, as well as other characteristics of what something is trying to get the browser to do. It does ultimately offer a lot of capability that a pihole doesn't, but you are limited to the browser. A http proxy based ad blocker would give you capabilities somewhere between the two, and be usable on any device you could point at the proxy - here's one for example.
posted by Dysk at 4:03 AM on November 1, 2022
posted by Dysk at 4:03 AM on November 1, 2022
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posted by SoberHighland at 4:15 AM on October 28, 2022 [6 favorites]