Luddite’ Teens Don’t Want Your Likes
December 15, 2022 2:24 PM Subscribe
In NY, some teens are rejecting iPhones and social media. SL-NYT, but to reader view - think it should work for everybody.
Also, these sound like a lovely group of kids.
posted by box at 2:33 PM on December 15, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by box at 2:33 PM on December 15, 2022 [7 favorites]
I haven't read the article, but this shouldn't be any great surprise, surely? There's always going to be a group of teens who want to define themselves by rejecting whatever the majority of their peers are into. Sometimes it's just putting a brave face on the rejection they're already suffering, sometimes a sign that they've genuinely found more interesting stuff to do elsewhere.
posted by Paul Slade at 2:34 PM on December 15, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 2:34 PM on December 15, 2022 [8 favorites]
Thanks @box. I have no idea why I can read that article - I'm not logged into the site at all.
posted by COD at 2:36 PM on December 15, 2022
posted by COD at 2:36 PM on December 15, 2022
Archive link
I guess I'll just say that I avoided having a smart phone until just a few years ago, when it became obvious to me that certain things I want to do are now impossible without having access to that pocket computer. I don't think it's necessarily fair for, say, Ticketmaster to require you to own a device costing hundreds of dollars to buy and even more to keep activated to see a concert. Used to be you'd get a paper ticket and could take that out of your wallet and gain access. Not so much anymore.
That's happening more and more. It's not entirely universal, but I see the process starting. Boarding passes for planes are mostly electronic now. They'll give you a paper boarding pass if you ask, but how long until they charge a fee for that printout? And so on with many other things, creeping into our lives.
I agree with these kids that smartphones are not that great, and I don't use mine nearly like how I see others using theirs. No bank information on my phone, no credit cards, it's not the center of my life. But... but but but...
I guess it'll take a new generation rebelling against this to redraw the lines of what is expected by people in society and stop making those who choose not to be on the cutting edge (or even the mainstream middle) be at a disadvantage for getting through life.
posted by hippybear at 2:44 PM on December 15, 2022 [15 favorites]
I guess I'll just say that I avoided having a smart phone until just a few years ago, when it became obvious to me that certain things I want to do are now impossible without having access to that pocket computer. I don't think it's necessarily fair for, say, Ticketmaster to require you to own a device costing hundreds of dollars to buy and even more to keep activated to see a concert. Used to be you'd get a paper ticket and could take that out of your wallet and gain access. Not so much anymore.
That's happening more and more. It's not entirely universal, but I see the process starting. Boarding passes for planes are mostly electronic now. They'll give you a paper boarding pass if you ask, but how long until they charge a fee for that printout? And so on with many other things, creeping into our lives.
I agree with these kids that smartphones are not that great, and I don't use mine nearly like how I see others using theirs. No bank information on my phone, no credit cards, it's not the center of my life. But... but but but...
I guess it'll take a new generation rebelling against this to redraw the lines of what is expected by people in society and stop making those who choose not to be on the cutting edge (or even the mainstream middle) be at a disadvantage for getting through life.
posted by hippybear at 2:44 PM on December 15, 2022 [15 favorites]
I was going to post this later--thanks.
I think these kids are freakin' adorable and hope they continue to have adventures!
posted by praemunire at 2:57 PM on December 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
I think these kids are freakin' adorable and hope they continue to have adventures!
posted by praemunire at 2:57 PM on December 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
Man, I'm just happy if any of my elderly friends FINALLY give up their goddamned awful flip phones. I always hated cheap-ass flip phones. (Though I hear they have much fancier versions in smartphone now.) But also most things are run off a computer/phone and not doing that is A Problem.
"Luddite Club" is certainly...something.
“We’re here every Sunday, rain or shine, even snow. We don’t keep in touch with each other, so you have to show up.”
I'll bet!
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:05 PM on December 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
"Luddite Club" is certainly...something.
“We’re here every Sunday, rain or shine, even snow. We don’t keep in touch with each other, so you have to show up.”
I'll bet!
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:05 PM on December 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
I haven't read the article
Thanks to box, I have read it now. My earlier comment may have sounded dismissive, but that wasn't my intention. I love what these kids are doing and share all the worries they express about smartphones. Yes, it's sometimes inconvenient to do without one, but not so inconvenient that it can't be done. My Nokia dumbphone suits me much better and I've never regretted switching back to that option for a second.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:05 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
Thanks to box, I have read it now. My earlier comment may have sounded dismissive, but that wasn't my intention. I love what these kids are doing and share all the worries they express about smartphones. Yes, it's sometimes inconvenient to do without one, but not so inconvenient that it can't be done. My Nokia dumbphone suits me much better and I've never regretted switching back to that option for a second.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:05 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
Interesting - but Luddite is needlessly pejorative of the press. I couldn't open the NYT link but found it's also on USA Today.
I don't know if this is a thing in NZ yet but I wouldn't be surprised. I'm aware of activist meetings where everyone lives the phone outside the room. I can imagine two rapidly developing trends 1; people with apparently no phone, and 2; Physical phones sold with plausible ongoing updating as a 3rd part service (maybe a phone just for protests). Having no phone is now a suspicious activity in some places.
posted by unearthed at 3:07 PM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don't know if this is a thing in NZ yet but I wouldn't be surprised. I'm aware of activist meetings where everyone lives the phone outside the room. I can imagine two rapidly developing trends 1; people with apparently no phone, and 2; Physical phones sold with plausible ongoing updating as a 3rd part service (maybe a phone just for protests). Having no phone is now a suspicious activity in some places.
posted by unearthed at 3:07 PM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
Interesting to use luddite positively in this way. There was recently an interesting thread on twitter on the history of luddites. Origins are not really in rejecting technology but in rejecting workplace abuse and exploitation, though it was framed as being anti-technology.
posted by picklenickle at 3:11 PM on December 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by picklenickle at 3:11 PM on December 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
That whole article sounds like a setup for a tv series about a group of teens who solve crimes… the old fashioned way. Or possibly for a heist movie.
When I was in my late teens, early twenties, I belonged to an anti-cellphone club. Though back then, around the turn of the millennium, it wasn’t as wildly necessary as today. I was the second-to-last holdout. I just liked being unreachable, sometimes.
I still haven’t got a smartphone, just an old style Nokia, but I have an iPad Mini, and I’ve only once run into a problem where I couldn’t do something without an actual smartphone. Anyway, I’m fully reachable now, but at least I’m sometimes away from the internet. The office I share with my wife is internet free, and it’s nice to just be a bit isolated sometimes.
I hope those kids will have fun solving and/or doing crimes, and will spread their club elsewhere.
posted by Kattullus at 3:13 PM on December 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
When I was in my late teens, early twenties, I belonged to an anti-cellphone club. Though back then, around the turn of the millennium, it wasn’t as wildly necessary as today. I was the second-to-last holdout. I just liked being unreachable, sometimes.
I still haven’t got a smartphone, just an old style Nokia, but I have an iPad Mini, and I’ve only once run into a problem where I couldn’t do something without an actual smartphone. Anyway, I’m fully reachable now, but at least I’m sometimes away from the internet. The office I share with my wife is internet free, and it’s nice to just be a bit isolated sometimes.
I hope those kids will have fun solving and/or doing crimes, and will spread their club elsewhere.
posted by Kattullus at 3:13 PM on December 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
You know what's a really easy thing to do? Is to leave your smartphone someplace obscure in your house so it's not in your pocket all the time. Also, to leave your house without your smartphone and just be away from the interwebs entirely. One of the reasons I've never wanted to own a laptop is that I mostly am online over my desktop computer and I have zero desire to carry an equivalent around with me when I go places.
I treasure my time away from being "in contact". I also carry city map atlases in my car so if I need to, I can still find my way around.
I wonder if these luddite kids are doing map reading practice? It's a great skill to have, and is quickly being entirely lost to the causal person.
posted by hippybear at 3:19 PM on December 15, 2022 [12 favorites]
I treasure my time away from being "in contact". I also carry city map atlases in my car so if I need to, I can still find my way around.
I wonder if these luddite kids are doing map reading practice? It's a great skill to have, and is quickly being entirely lost to the causal person.
posted by hippybear at 3:19 PM on December 15, 2022 [12 favorites]
This is delightful.
And it's an added benefit that their parents can't track them anymore. It's a good thing to be young and out in the world without a digital tether. (It's a good thing to be old and tetherless, too.)
posted by mochapickle at 3:27 PM on December 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
And it's an added benefit that their parents can't track them anymore. It's a good thing to be young and out in the world without a digital tether. (It's a good thing to be old and tetherless, too.)
posted by mochapickle at 3:27 PM on December 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
Interesting - but Luddite is needlessly pejorative of the press.
They formed a group called "The Luddite Club," they hold "Luddite meetings," spread the "Luddite gospel" and one of them wrote a "Luddite Manifesto." How is the press using the name they self-identify with needlessly pejorative?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 3:28 PM on December 15, 2022 [12 favorites]
They formed a group called "The Luddite Club," they hold "Luddite meetings," spread the "Luddite gospel" and one of them wrote a "Luddite Manifesto." How is the press using the name they self-identify with needlessly pejorative?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 3:28 PM on December 15, 2022 [12 favorites]
What @hippybear said. Certain things are impossible without technological access and knowledge. And technological access can be prohibitively expensive. Which makes it infuriating how many basic social services can only be accessed via the web or a smartphone. It's frustrating and frightening.
I hope these kids keep asking questions about alternatives to technology, even about privilege. And encouraging others to think about their relationship to gadgets and technology.
posted by SaharaRose at 3:30 PM on December 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
I hope these kids keep asking questions about alternatives to technology, even about privilege. And encouraging others to think about their relationship to gadgets and technology.
posted by SaharaRose at 3:30 PM on December 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
As a teen there was no way I could have carried something as fragile as an iPhone. I couldn’t wear a wristwatch even; I broke several in less than a month and just gave up. Plus it felt like a manacle.
I doubt I could have owned an iPhone, I was just too rough on things.
Smart phones are imposing a life of physical passivity on kids, and I think that’s kind of a disaster.
posted by jamjam at 3:32 PM on December 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
I doubt I could have owned an iPhone, I was just too rough on things.
Smart phones are imposing a life of physical passivity on kids, and I think that’s kind of a disaster.
posted by jamjam at 3:32 PM on December 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
unearthed, your link goes to a site called "US Today News" not USA Today, and it is... odd.
Club founder Logan Lane's dad, IT exec Seth, in the NYT:
He’d heard about the Luddite Club’s hand-wringing over questions of privilege. “Well, it’s classist to make people need to have smartphones, too, right?” Mr. Lane said.
the quote at the US Today "reprint":
He’d heard about the Luddite Club’s hand-wringing over privilege. “Well, getting people to have smartphones is classy, isn’t it?” Mr Lane said.
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:35 PM on December 15, 2022 [11 favorites]
Club founder Logan Lane's dad, IT exec Seth, in the NYT:
He’d heard about the Luddite Club’s hand-wringing over questions of privilege. “Well, it’s classist to make people need to have smartphones, too, right?” Mr. Lane said.
the quote at the US Today "reprint":
He’d heard about the Luddite Club’s hand-wringing over privilege. “Well, getting people to have smartphones is classy, isn’t it?” Mr Lane said.
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:35 PM on December 15, 2022 [11 favorites]
I think these are smart and promising kids who are doing great stuff for themselves. But also: this is literally one high school clique. Which, to be honest, NYT lifestyle trend articles usually are about one high school clique, only much older and not named as such.
If I was a parent here, I would not be happy about having a kid in this particular article. It's basically sensitive, brownly dressed teens all saying they're too good for social media in an article that is going to be unleashed on social media. They're going to get pantsed. Hopefully, it will all be in online ways they never have to hear much about.
posted by Countess Elena at 3:38 PM on December 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
If I was a parent here, I would not be happy about having a kid in this particular article. It's basically sensitive, brownly dressed teens all saying they're too good for social media in an article that is going to be unleashed on social media. They're going to get pantsed. Hopefully, it will all be in online ways they never have to hear much about.
posted by Countess Elena at 3:38 PM on December 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
You know what's a really easy thing to do? Is to leave your smartphone someplace obscure in your house so it's not in your pocket all the time.
When my great aunt Ethel died, her stuff got parceled out and I got her phone table. Which, if you are not aware, was a piece of furniture with the specific purpose of holding a landline telephone with a cubby beneath for a phone book.
It’s where I keep my phone now when I’m not using it, and it never fails to crack me up.
posted by rhymedirective at 3:38 PM on December 15, 2022 [21 favorites]
When my great aunt Ethel died, her stuff got parceled out and I got her phone table. Which, if you are not aware, was a piece of furniture with the specific purpose of holding a landline telephone with a cubby beneath for a phone book.
It’s where I keep my phone now when I’m not using it, and it never fails to crack me up.
posted by rhymedirective at 3:38 PM on December 15, 2022 [21 favorites]
When my great aunt Ethel died, her stuff got parceled out and I got her phone table.
My childhood home up until age 10 had a built-in phone nook in the hallway, a little rounded top niche like for an icon statue or something, with a shelf below it for a phone book and a plug in the wall in the back to connect the landline.
posted by hippybear at 3:41 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
My childhood home up until age 10 had a built-in phone nook in the hallway, a little rounded top niche like for an icon statue or something, with a shelf below it for a phone book and a plug in the wall in the back to connect the landline.
posted by hippybear at 3:41 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
I did not see The Consolation of Philosophy coming in the inventory of their book bags.
I like this because I have teen children and would love a lower Verizon bill. And a phone that holds a charge for days. And doesn’t break. I think that’s great for THEM.
posted by Caxton1476 at 3:45 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
I like this because I have teen children and would love a lower Verizon bill. And a phone that holds a charge for days. And doesn’t break. I think that’s great for THEM.
posted by Caxton1476 at 3:45 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
the quote at the US Today "reprint": ... “Well, getting people to have smartphones is classy, isn’t it?” Mr Lane said.
That's a weird and possibly deliberate misquote, as it's clear the father (“Well, it’s classist to make people need to have smartphones, too, right?”) is referring to the earlier comments “One kid said it’s classist” / "... we’re a bunch of rich kids and expecting everyone to drop their phones is privileged.”
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:58 PM on December 15, 2022
That's a weird and possibly deliberate misquote, as it's clear the father (“Well, it’s classist to make people need to have smartphones, too, right?”) is referring to the earlier comments “One kid said it’s classist” / "... we’re a bunch of rich kids and expecting everyone to drop their phones is privileged.”
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:58 PM on December 15, 2022
“When I got my flip phone, things instantly changed,” Lola continued. “I started using my brain. It made me observe myself as a person. I’ve been trying to write a book, too. It’s like 12 pages now.”
This is comedy gold for anyone over a certain age. Pure catnip. They know their audience.
posted by pipeski at 3:58 PM on December 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
This is comedy gold for anyone over a certain age. Pure catnip. They know their audience.
posted by pipeski at 3:58 PM on December 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
I think it's good for everyone to be disconnected now and again, but I think the days when you can actually go without a smart phone (or other device such as a tablet) at all are numbered if you do any sort of travel or event attendance etc. Businesses of all kinds are saving so much money being fully digital that they're never going back.
posted by dg at 3:59 PM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by dg at 3:59 PM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
"the club has about 25 members"
posted by Iris Gambol at 4:03 PM on December 15, 2022
posted by Iris Gambol at 4:03 PM on December 15, 2022
I'm interested in what the current state of 'things you can't do without a smartphone' is.
Like, I understand that between tech adoption and pandemic stuff, there are probably places that simply aren't set up to pay in cash anymore. But one could use a debit card.
What are the things I don't know about? Like these kids can't go to the movies, because there's no such thing as a ticket booth anymore - all theatres now use an app and you show a QR code at the door.
I get the 'no more Ubers; and if we want to have a group chat, we all have to go to a physical location'. But what am I missing? Does the subway only take ApplePay now?
posted by bartleby at 4:29 PM on December 15, 2022
Like, I understand that between tech adoption and pandemic stuff, there are probably places that simply aren't set up to pay in cash anymore. But one could use a debit card.
What are the things I don't know about? Like these kids can't go to the movies, because there's no such thing as a ticket booth anymore - all theatres now use an app and you show a QR code at the door.
I get the 'no more Ubers; and if we want to have a group chat, we all have to go to a physical location'. But what am I missing? Does the subway only take ApplePay now?
posted by bartleby at 4:29 PM on December 15, 2022
On the one hand, I love the punk vibe, from DIY phone decoration to making zines.
On the other, yeah, they do seem to come from a lot of money (IT executive parent?). Hence the New York Times' love.
posted by doctornemo at 4:36 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
On the other, yeah, they do seem to come from a lot of money (IT executive parent?). Hence the New York Times' love.
posted by doctornemo at 4:36 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
Well, Ticketmaster is an already mentioned example. There are museums that offer tours that you can only do with your smartphone, as well as a lot of things like architectural tours of cities that only work with location services and a smartphone to give you the details about where you are and what you are looking at. Geocaching is nearly entirely a smartphone pastime these days, if you've ever heard of that. Those just are the ones that come immediately to mind, but I could come up with more if you wanted.
posted by hippybear at 4:36 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 4:36 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
I've recently encountered paid parking lots where the way to pay was to either scan a qr code or install their app. I didn't look closely to see if there was a backup method, though.
posted by primethyme at 4:39 PM on December 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by primethyme at 4:39 PM on December 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
First it's Luddism Club, then before you know it they're taking orders from Captain Swing
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 4:45 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 4:45 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
As long as they're not taking orders from Captain Trips....
posted by hippybear at 4:47 PM on December 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 4:47 PM on December 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
Metafilter: I haven't read the article, but
posted by Ahmad Khani at 5:16 PM on December 15, 2022 [13 favorites]
posted by Ahmad Khani at 5:16 PM on December 15, 2022 [13 favorites]
I've recently encountered paid parking lots where the way to pay was to either scan a qr code or install their app. I didn't look closely to see if there was a backup method, though.
You can call the posted number from...um...your cell phone, presumably.
posted by Chuffy at 5:22 PM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
I thought it was a sweet article. I don't know if I would have joined, but they are the kinds of kids I would have been friends with at that age. The writing was kind, while also being a bit tongue in cheek but without being mean. They'll all have great college application essays.
However, I will be disappointed if half of them don't end up in 10 or so years with job titles like Digital Director of User Engagement.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:34 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
However, I will be disappointed if half of them don't end up in 10 or so years with job titles like Digital Director of User Engagement.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:34 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
(It looks like "US Today" is one of those clickbait websites that takes articles from legit news organizations and very slightly rewrites them before resposting them. Hence that quote changed from "classist" to "classy," and the NYT's opening of a "brisk recent Sunday" becomes a "busy Sunday." The "US Today" site also takes away the original reporter's name, Alex Vadukul, and subs in "Daniel Fraser.")
posted by lisa g at 5:39 PM on December 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by lisa g at 5:39 PM on December 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
Like these kids can't go to the movies, because there's no such thing as a ticket booth anymore
You can buy tickets at the kiosk with a credit card, but if you want those tickets in advance, you'll have to go to the theater in advance.
NYC transit is phasing out the MetroCard, but you can purchase an OMNYcard for cash that fulfills the same purpose.
posted by praemunire at 5:43 PM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
You can buy tickets at the kiosk with a credit card, but if you want those tickets in advance, you'll have to go to the theater in advance.
NYC transit is phasing out the MetroCard, but you can purchase an OMNYcard for cash that fulfills the same purpose.
posted by praemunire at 5:43 PM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
I read the piece and they’re just adorable but I have a feeling that five years from now they’re going to be embarrassed they participated in this story. I’m happy that when I was their age I was able to be silly and pretentiously earnest and there wasn’t evidence of it in America’s publication of record.
posted by photoslob at 5:52 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by photoslob at 5:52 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
I've recently encountered paid parking lots where the way to pay was to either scan a qr code or install their app. I didn't look closely to see if there was a backup method, though.
I go to a parking garage near a theater and every time I lam trying to leave, there's a cloggy line trying to get out because people can't get the QR codes on their phone to swipe/work for like 15 minutes. I have learned to print the stupid thing out and work and fold it into a small enough piece of paper to scan it to get around this issue.
I really hate QR codes, btw. At least half the damn time the things do not work.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:56 PM on December 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
I go to a parking garage near a theater and every time I lam trying to leave, there's a cloggy line trying to get out because people can't get the QR codes on their phone to swipe/work for like 15 minutes. I have learned to print the stupid thing out and work and fold it into a small enough piece of paper to scan it to get around this issue.
I really hate QR codes, btw. At least half the damn time the things do not work.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:56 PM on December 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
Three wealthy kids in a park aren't a trend, Style section!
Anyway, here's a Style story from nearly 20 years ago with a similar vibe: A Crunchy Meal for a Youthful Crowd.
The invitation was explicit: ''Barefoot formal -- evening gowns, jewelry and no shoes!'' And so, on a recent rainy Friday night, 12 girls from St. Ann's, a private school in Brooklyn, pulled on their raincoats and headed over to the home of their friend Lena Dunham on College Place in Brooklyn Heights, where they left shoes and socks in puddles in the foyer.
I feel like Style needs some kind of Booker of Bookers to determine who was the most quirky yet wholesome, meaning rebellious in a parentally-approved way, teen they've profiled since Styles of Times began in the 1990s.
posted by betweenthebars at 6:07 PM on December 15, 2022 [8 favorites]
Anyway, here's a Style story from nearly 20 years ago with a similar vibe: A Crunchy Meal for a Youthful Crowd.
The invitation was explicit: ''Barefoot formal -- evening gowns, jewelry and no shoes!'' And so, on a recent rainy Friday night, 12 girls from St. Ann's, a private school in Brooklyn, pulled on their raincoats and headed over to the home of their friend Lena Dunham on College Place in Brooklyn Heights, where they left shoes and socks in puddles in the foyer.
I feel like Style needs some kind of Booker of Bookers to determine who was the most quirky yet wholesome, meaning rebellious in a parentally-approved way, teen they've profiled since Styles of Times began in the 1990s.
posted by betweenthebars at 6:07 PM on December 15, 2022 [8 favorites]
I have a feeling that five years from now they’re going to be embarrassed they participated in this story.
But in twenty years and onwards, they're going to look back and smile.
There's not a lot you can do at 16 that you won't find embarrassing at 21. Maybe win an Olympic gold in gymnastics.
posted by praemunire at 6:41 PM on December 15, 2022 [7 favorites]
But in twenty years and onwards, they're going to look back and smile.
There's not a lot you can do at 16 that you won't find embarrassing at 21. Maybe win an Olympic gold in gymnastics.
posted by praemunire at 6:41 PM on December 15, 2022 [7 favorites]
I'm interested in what the current state of 'things you can't do without a smartphone' is.
I only got a smartphone with a plan earlier this year. For a while I made do with a Google Voice number for receiving text messages for services that demand SMS to register, but that doesn't work for all of them.
As an "extremely online" person who likes to browse the web while eating, it limited the number of restaurants I was willing to go to to those offering Wifi. I still kind of prefer to use Wifi instead of putting data on the plan.
posted by JHarris at 6:50 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
I only got a smartphone with a plan earlier this year. For a while I made do with a Google Voice number for receiving text messages for services that demand SMS to register, but that doesn't work for all of them.
As an "extremely online" person who likes to browse the web while eating, it limited the number of restaurants I was willing to go to to those offering Wifi. I still kind of prefer to use Wifi instead of putting data on the plan.
posted by JHarris at 6:50 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
I still kind of prefer to use Wifi instead of putting data on the plan.
I'm running a TracFone here and I'm buying the scratch-off cards to recharge. It's great. I don't use my phone that much so I spend maybe $90-100 a year to keep my phone running. I can't imagine having a monthly fee for this service, but I guess if I used my phone for everything in my life that would make sense.
posted by hippybear at 6:54 PM on December 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
I'm running a TracFone here and I'm buying the scratch-off cards to recharge. It's great. I don't use my phone that much so I spend maybe $90-100 a year to keep my phone running. I can't imagine having a monthly fee for this service, but I guess if I used my phone for everything in my life that would make sense.
posted by hippybear at 6:54 PM on December 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
Those just are the ones that come immediately to mind, but I could come up with more if you wanted.
Anything people can think of, as long as it doesn't endanger the thread.
I ask for two reasons.
First, I'm trying to get a sense of how close we are on the 'you can't participate in society' scale. Say on phoneless vs penniless. Without a QR code, private parking is a hassle vs. you cant get on a city bus or use a public library.
Second, I have recurring daydreams about 'temporal resorts'. Like if Mackinac Island took their historic status so seriously that overnight guests would have to arrive in 1887 costume.
Addicted to streaming services and the 24/7 news cycle? Come visit the Hotel New Hampshire, where it's always 1953. If anyone from 'outside' needs to contact you in an emergency, we'll have a bellboy bring you a telegram.
So I'm thinking about what the experience would be for these flip-phone kids if they attended (instead of the exclusive private arts colleges their parents can afford) something like the University of 1990. If you're going to major in Classical Philosophy, what do you need networked computers for? If you need outside resources, we can have someone make you an interactive CD-ROM.
posted by bartleby at 6:58 PM on December 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
Anything people can think of, as long as it doesn't endanger the thread.
I ask for two reasons.
First, I'm trying to get a sense of how close we are on the 'you can't participate in society' scale. Say on phoneless vs penniless. Without a QR code, private parking is a hassle vs. you cant get on a city bus or use a public library.
Second, I have recurring daydreams about 'temporal resorts'. Like if Mackinac Island took their historic status so seriously that overnight guests would have to arrive in 1887 costume.
Addicted to streaming services and the 24/7 news cycle? Come visit the Hotel New Hampshire, where it's always 1953. If anyone from 'outside' needs to contact you in an emergency, we'll have a bellboy bring you a telegram.
So I'm thinking about what the experience would be for these flip-phone kids if they attended (instead of the exclusive private arts colleges their parents can afford) something like the University of 1990. If you're going to major in Classical Philosophy, what do you need networked computers for? If you need outside resources, we can have someone make you an interactive CD-ROM.
posted by bartleby at 6:58 PM on December 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
What are the things I don't know about?
Unless you shell out $ on a special security fob, nobody on my campus can access password-protected systems (the course management system, our Zoom, etc.) without a smartphone for two-factor identification. This has been known to cause, er, rage, especially if you are in a classroom trying to show students something you've made the mistake of storing in your campus OneDrive and managed to forget your phone back in your office.
posted by thomas j wise at 7:06 PM on December 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
Unless you shell out $ on a special security fob, nobody on my campus can access password-protected systems (the course management system, our Zoom, etc.) without a smartphone for two-factor identification. This has been known to cause, er, rage, especially if you are in a classroom trying to show students something you've made the mistake of storing in your campus OneDrive and managed to forget your phone back in your office.
posted by thomas j wise at 7:06 PM on December 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
the great thing about this story is that we can say what we like about them, odds are they'll never read it
what are they going to do, get MetaFilter over WAP?
posted by Merus at 7:20 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
what are they going to do, get MetaFilter over WAP?
posted by Merus at 7:20 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
NYT Ask Real Estate recently had an article My Building Has Replaced Our Keys With an App. Is That Legal? (gift link). The NYT answer was, yes, it's legal, sucks to be you, and the comments were overwhelmingly outraged.
Before the pandemic, my middle-aged friends and I went to see The Mekons in Williamsburg and I was personally outraged at having to download an app to get into the show, with absolutely no other alternative, an app that obviously was tracking me and my music listening habits. To see The Mekons no less! I considered writing to the NY AG about it because I was sure it could not be legal, then I realized it was just me being out of touch and that was the way things were.
posted by maggiemaggie at 7:24 PM on December 15, 2022 [7 favorites]
Before the pandemic, my middle-aged friends and I went to see The Mekons in Williamsburg and I was personally outraged at having to download an app to get into the show, with absolutely no other alternative, an app that obviously was tracking me and my music listening habits. To see The Mekons no less! I considered writing to the NY AG about it because I was sure it could not be legal, then I realized it was just me being out of touch and that was the way things were.
posted by maggiemaggie at 7:24 PM on December 15, 2022 [7 favorites]
Unless you shell out $ on a special security fob, nobody on my campus can access password-protected systems (the course management system, our Zoom, etc.) without a smartphone for two-factor identification.
All the two-factor security things my work IT keeps rolling out assume you will have a cellphone. Mostly they just require you to be able to receive a text, but now there are a couple of things requiring the use of an app to get the code that you then type into the work computer.
It's not (as far as I know) written into my job description, but realistically having a current smart phone is baked into the expectations of my job in terms of accessibility, being able to access email and messaging while traveling, being able to set up a hotspot, and so on. There isn't any expectation of 24/7 access, thankfully, but someone who insisted on only using a flip phone would functionally just create work for other people.
I'm ok with that if there is a subsidy or a work-provided phone option, or if salaries are scaled to account for that cost. But it is not cool to expect that of low-paid staff without subsidies, and that happens a lot.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:31 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
All the two-factor security things my work IT keeps rolling out assume you will have a cellphone. Mostly they just require you to be able to receive a text, but now there are a couple of things requiring the use of an app to get the code that you then type into the work computer.
It's not (as far as I know) written into my job description, but realistically having a current smart phone is baked into the expectations of my job in terms of accessibility, being able to access email and messaging while traveling, being able to set up a hotspot, and so on. There isn't any expectation of 24/7 access, thankfully, but someone who insisted on only using a flip phone would functionally just create work for other people.
I'm ok with that if there is a subsidy or a work-provided phone option, or if salaries are scaled to account for that cost. But it is not cool to expect that of low-paid staff without subsidies, and that happens a lot.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:31 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
There is some irony to me writing this comment from my iPhone, but I found it kind of moving seeing the picture of the kids sitting in the park all engrossed in paperbacks. Even knowing what I was clicking on it took me a second to remember this was a 2022 photo and not an archival photo from 1982.
posted by The Gooch at 7:40 PM on December 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by The Gooch at 7:40 PM on December 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
Bless their little hearts. Stay free, kids.
posted by ducky l'orange at 8:23 PM on December 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by ducky l'orange at 8:23 PM on December 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
All the two-factor security things my work IT keeps rolling out assume you will have a cellphone.
Interestingly, mine did, but now we have upgraded to a card reader that plugs into the laptop. I think the company-owned laptops might have built-in slots, even?
posted by praemunire at 8:38 PM on December 15, 2022
Interestingly, mine did, but now we have upgraded to a card reader that plugs into the laptop. I think the company-owned laptops might have built-in slots, even?
posted by praemunire at 8:38 PM on December 15, 2022
Smartphones are okay, but it being essential to have one, I'm not fond of. Phones run out of battery, for one thing, and I'm not fond of both of the big OS makers being kind of rapacious, in their own ways.
posted by JHarris at 8:43 PM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by JHarris at 8:43 PM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
Unless you shell out $ on a special security fob, nobody on my campus can access password-protected systems (the course management system, our Zoom, etc.) without a smartphone for two-factor identification.
They rolled this out for email at the school where I teach recently. It is maddening! You get two options but BOTH require you to have your phone - you can receive a text or get a phone call. We have to do this for every single session, many times a day. You can't just leave your phone in your purse in a locked drawer, you have to have it on you all the time (especially if you travel from room to room like I do). An older teacher does not have a smartphone, he simply does not receive email.
posted by subdee at 8:48 PM on December 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
They rolled this out for email at the school where I teach recently. It is maddening! You get two options but BOTH require you to have your phone - you can receive a text or get a phone call. We have to do this for every single session, many times a day. You can't just leave your phone in your purse in a locked drawer, you have to have it on you all the time (especially if you travel from room to room like I do). An older teacher does not have a smartphone, he simply does not receive email.
posted by subdee at 8:48 PM on December 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
I'm interested in what the current state of 'things you can't do without a smartphone' is.
There's the growing number of restaurants that only put their menus online only and a few have switched to having all the ordering and payment done through an app or website (while still asking for a 20% tip).
Many home security cameras don't have a way to activate/deactivate them without using the internet so unless you're willing to live with false alerts or leave a computer by the doorway without coverage by the cameras, you're out of luck.
Many drones are close to useless without a smartphone or tablet. I imagine a growing number of children's toys are as well.
One of my stock brokers has a feature that is only accessible by smartphone. And most banks require a smartphone for cashing checks remotely.
But other than that, I can't think of too many things in my life at this point that require a smart phone if one has access to a printer and is willing to print QR code tickets. The afore mentioned museum tours come close but the content is available online and you can read it before of afterwards at least.
posted by Candleman at 9:45 PM on December 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
There's the growing number of restaurants that only put their menus online only and a few have switched to having all the ordering and payment done through an app or website (while still asking for a 20% tip).
Many home security cameras don't have a way to activate/deactivate them without using the internet so unless you're willing to live with false alerts or leave a computer by the doorway without coverage by the cameras, you're out of luck.
Many drones are close to useless without a smartphone or tablet. I imagine a growing number of children's toys are as well.
One of my stock brokers has a feature that is only accessible by smartphone. And most banks require a smartphone for cashing checks remotely.
But other than that, I can't think of too many things in my life at this point that require a smart phone if one has access to a printer and is willing to print QR code tickets. The afore mentioned museum tours come close but the content is available online and you can read it before of afterwards at least.
posted by Candleman at 9:45 PM on December 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
Oh, sgu, I was hoping for quite the opposite.
'So, what do you do?'
I'm just here for the clothes, transistor radios, and indoor cigarette smoking.
posted by bartleby at 9:49 PM on December 15, 2022
'So, what do you do?'
I'm just here for the clothes, transistor radios, and indoor cigarette smoking.
posted by bartleby at 9:49 PM on December 15, 2022
So which one has a parent that works at the nyt, then
posted by ominous_paws at 11:27 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by ominous_paws at 11:27 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
As someone who's gone car-free and takes the bus everywhere, I'm perpetually delighted at the ability to plan routes on the fly and get real-time bus information on a smartphone, in comparison to Ye Olden Days of carrying around paper route maps/schedules for every bus I might possibly ever want to take. Some of that functionality can be approximated with a flip phone and calling the transit authority help line, but that depends on it being during staffed hours, and on a cold wet late night you'd hate to miss the last bus because you were on hold. That alone is enough to sway me anytime I briefly consider taking a retro step toward older phone tech.
posted by Stacey at 5:06 AM on December 16, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Stacey at 5:06 AM on December 16, 2022 [4 favorites]
Let's go for 1953, the good parts version.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 7:08 AM on December 16, 2022
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 7:08 AM on December 16, 2022
So I'm thinking about what the experience would be for these flip-phone kids if they attended (instead of the exclusive private arts colleges their parents can afford) something like the University of 1990. If you're going to major in Classical Philosophy, what do you need networked computers for? If you need outside resources, we can have someone make you an interactive CD-ROM.Hey now, we had networked computers. You just had to go to the library on campus and find a VAX terminal and then you could email anyone else who was also in college at the time and bothered to figure out how to get a school email address.
posted by eckeric at 7:24 AM on December 16, 2022 [5 favorites]
... That alone is enough to sway me anytime I briefly consider taking a retro step toward older phone tech.
Oh hell yes. I do not want a world in which I have to ask strangers for directions again, or even just steer a car by a paper list of them.
This article did make me think hard about my initial knee-jerk response to the kids, which was, shall we say, adolescent. I realized it was because they reminded me of a clique at my school (boarding school, long story) that dressed much the same and read the same books and was in big with the school's star English teacher who was arrested when -- Well, the point is, it's on me. I am also stung, I suppose, by the fact that as a teen, my friends and I were into computers, the BBS system on campus and games and the narrow window to the larger outside net, and the future we saw in them turned out to be, you know ... this.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:03 AM on December 16, 2022 [4 favorites]
Oh hell yes. I do not want a world in which I have to ask strangers for directions again, or even just steer a car by a paper list of them.
This article did make me think hard about my initial knee-jerk response to the kids, which was, shall we say, adolescent. I realized it was because they reminded me of a clique at my school (boarding school, long story) that dressed much the same and read the same books and was in big with the school's star English teacher who was arrested when -- Well, the point is, it's on me. I am also stung, I suppose, by the fact that as a teen, my friends and I were into computers, the BBS system on campus and games and the narrow window to the larger outside net, and the future we saw in them turned out to be, you know ... this.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:03 AM on December 16, 2022 [4 favorites]
I'm perpetually delighted at the ability to plan routes on the fly and get real-time bus information on a smartphone, in comparison to Ye Olden Days of carrying around paper route maps/schedules for every bus I might possibly ever want to take.
MTA BusTime may be the single biggest non-emergency-related contribution to my quality of life that the city made in the past decade, no lie.
If you're going to major in Classical Philosophy, what do you need networked computers for?
As a humanities major, I spent a meaningful chunk of the early 90s screwing around on telnet BBSes.
I am also stung, I suppose, by the fact that as a teen, my friends and I were into computers, the BBS system on campus and games and the narrow window to the larger outside net, and the future we saw in them turned out to be, you know ... this.
We all feel this pain, but this was our dream, it wasn't silly of us to dream it, and now that we have...this...instead it's good to see young people being thoughtful in their own ways about their own dreams.
posted by praemunire at 8:51 AM on December 16, 2022 [9 favorites]
MTA BusTime may be the single biggest non-emergency-related contribution to my quality of life that the city made in the past decade, no lie.
If you're going to major in Classical Philosophy, what do you need networked computers for?
As a humanities major, I spent a meaningful chunk of the early 90s screwing around on telnet BBSes.
I am also stung, I suppose, by the fact that as a teen, my friends and I were into computers, the BBS system on campus and games and the narrow window to the larger outside net, and the future we saw in them turned out to be, you know ... this.
We all feel this pain, but this was our dream, it wasn't silly of us to dream it, and now that we have...this...instead it's good to see young people being thoughtful in their own ways about their own dreams.
posted by praemunire at 8:51 AM on December 16, 2022 [9 favorites]
I'm interested in what the current state of 'things you can't do without a smartphone' is.
In my neighbourhood almost all restaurants abandoned physical menus due to the pandemic. If you cannot scan the QR code on the table you cannot order food. A few have dedicated apps that also handle the payments, so if you don't have a smart phone you really can't eat there. This is the case for many parking lots now, if you don't have a phone you can't pay. Many theatres also went this way: the pandemic justified abandoning paper tickets so without a smart phone you can't go to many shows or events. I went on a guided walking tour of historically interesting buildings, recently, that required I had an app to join, even though it was all walking and talking by people who were all physically present. The app was not doing anything a paper ticket or list of attendees couldn't have done.
My curmudgeonly father refuses to figure out how to scan QR codes or install apps on his phone, so whenever we go anywhere I have to be his minder -- paying for parking, ordering food, increasingly doing everything. It's frustrating on two levels: having to do all the work for my Dad when he could do it himself if he wasn't such a baby, but it is also frustrating that I have to do it at all because none of these systems are as seamless as they aspire to be. There's always a lot of futzing about troubleshooting why this app doesn't work &c. when all I want to do is read a menu.
posted by selenized at 9:14 AM on December 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
In my neighbourhood almost all restaurants abandoned physical menus due to the pandemic. If you cannot scan the QR code on the table you cannot order food. A few have dedicated apps that also handle the payments, so if you don't have a smart phone you really can't eat there. This is the case for many parking lots now, if you don't have a phone you can't pay. Many theatres also went this way: the pandemic justified abandoning paper tickets so without a smart phone you can't go to many shows or events. I went on a guided walking tour of historically interesting buildings, recently, that required I had an app to join, even though it was all walking and talking by people who were all physically present. The app was not doing anything a paper ticket or list of attendees couldn't have done.
My curmudgeonly father refuses to figure out how to scan QR codes or install apps on his phone, so whenever we go anywhere I have to be his minder -- paying for parking, ordering food, increasingly doing everything. It's frustrating on two levels: having to do all the work for my Dad when he could do it himself if he wasn't such a baby, but it is also frustrating that I have to do it at all because none of these systems are as seamless as they aspire to be. There's always a lot of futzing about troubleshooting why this app doesn't work &c. when all I want to do is read a menu.
posted by selenized at 9:14 AM on December 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
The "US Today" site also takes away the original reporter's name, Alex Vadukul, and subs in "Daniel Fraser.")
Oh, that's asshole.
I was personally outraged at having to download an app to get into the show, with absolutely no other alternative, an app that obviously was tracking me and my music listening habits.
So is that. Also I get ticked at certain websites that constantly nag you to download the app. I'M NOT DOWNLOADING AN APP TO READ ONE @$%$%@$ WEBSITE, THANK YOU.
All the two-factor security things my work IT keeps rolling out assume you will have a cellphone. Mostly they just require you to be able to receive a text, but now there are a couple of things requiring the use of an app to get the code that you then type into the work computer.
When they rolled out yet another security thing, my phone at the time had a bad jack and I knew I was going to have to get it repaired at some point. I got a physical token to use, but in general you're supposed to be using your smartphone for that. But I was all "what if I lose the phone, it's broken and getting repaired for a few days, etc." and thus stuck with the token. Then again, I forgot to bring said token to work a few days last month and had to go back home to get it, so....
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:49 AM on December 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
Oh, that's asshole.
I was personally outraged at having to download an app to get into the show, with absolutely no other alternative, an app that obviously was tracking me and my music listening habits.
So is that. Also I get ticked at certain websites that constantly nag you to download the app. I'M NOT DOWNLOADING AN APP TO READ ONE @$%$%@$ WEBSITE, THANK YOU.
All the two-factor security things my work IT keeps rolling out assume you will have a cellphone. Mostly they just require you to be able to receive a text, but now there are a couple of things requiring the use of an app to get the code that you then type into the work computer.
When they rolled out yet another security thing, my phone at the time had a bad jack and I knew I was going to have to get it repaired at some point. I got a physical token to use, but in general you're supposed to be using your smartphone for that. But I was all "what if I lose the phone, it's broken and getting repaired for a few days, etc." and thus stuck with the token. Then again, I forgot to bring said token to work a few days last month and had to go back home to get it, so....
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:49 AM on December 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
If you're going to major in Classical Philosophy, what do you need networked computers for?
To listen to true crime podcasts talking about that farmer you killed.
posted by betweenthebars at 10:58 AM on December 16, 2022 [8 favorites]
To listen to true crime podcasts talking about that farmer you killed.
posted by betweenthebars at 10:58 AM on December 16, 2022 [8 favorites]
For the record, all the high schools mentioned in the article - Edgar R Murrow, Beacon and Brooklyn Tech - are public schools. Beacon and Brooklyn Tech are very selective and you have to apply. Edward R Murrow has a good reputation but I don't know how selective it is.
So these kids are privileged, but not Secret History or Gossip Girl privileged.
posted by maggiemaggie at 11:12 AM on December 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
So these kids are privileged, but not Secret History or Gossip Girl privileged.
posted by maggiemaggie at 11:12 AM on December 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
They're more like Head of the Class privileged.
posted by box at 12:36 PM on December 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by box at 12:36 PM on December 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
At least one club member is townhouse-in-Cobble-Hill privileged, and Cobble Hill is regularly ranked as the most expensive neighborhood in Brooklyn.
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:44 PM on December 16, 2022
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:44 PM on December 16, 2022
It’s been a while, but I think she would be the Robin Givens character.
posted by box at 5:08 PM on December 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 5:08 PM on December 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
I was thinking maybe Khyrstyne Haje, the curly redhead poet from HotC?
Maybe it's the new version of that kid who we'll call the 'histori-goth'. You know, the one who wore bow ties and tweed and did their assignments on a manual typewriter? Affected a pipe?
Now it's a clique of kids wearing JNCO jeans, who carry Motorola RAZRs? 'Actually, I prefer cassettes; Spotify is too unfocused.' Fine. Do your thing, kids, as kids will do.
posted by bartleby at 6:44 PM on December 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
Maybe it's the new version of that kid who we'll call the 'histori-goth'. You know, the one who wore bow ties and tweed and did their assignments on a manual typewriter? Affected a pipe?
Now it's a clique of kids wearing JNCO jeans, who carry Motorola RAZRs? 'Actually, I prefer cassettes; Spotify is too unfocused.' Fine. Do your thing, kids, as kids will do.
posted by bartleby at 6:44 PM on December 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
Maybe it's the new version of that kid who we'll call the 'histori-goth'.
Here in the UK, we call them "young fogeys".
posted by Paul Slade at 11:48 PM on December 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
Here in the UK, we call them "young fogeys".
posted by Paul Slade at 11:48 PM on December 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
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Nope. My experience has been that NYT successfully paywalls reader view, too.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:28 PM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]