The Snitch Trying To Get Ghost Cars Off The Streets

January 9, 2023 12:38 PM

New York has an elaborate system of cameras to enforce the law on the road. (YT 9:21) Some drivers have decided they'd rather not play by the rules. Gersh Kuntzman, editor of Streetsblog NYC, bikes around the city un-defacing license plates. After an altercation in which another local cyclist (who's also a lawyer) was arrested for "criminal mischief" for a similar act, Kuntzman decided to document the pervasiveness of the problem and the city's refusal to do much of anything about it.
posted by threementholsandafuneral (34 comments total)

License plate covering should be considered premeditation in any and all vehicle-based crimes, no different than taking out an insurance policy on someone who soon dies under suspicious circumstances or walking into a bank with a ski mask over your face.

The only problem with this is that it would require vehicle-based crimes to be treated as crimes, as opposed to unavoidable whoopsies.
posted by Superilla at 12:44 PM on January 9, 2023 [66 favorites]

The only problem with this is that it would require vehicle-based crimes to be treated as crimes

The real problem is that a lot of the people doing this are cops themselves or cop-adjacent. Everyone in the city knows this, and also knows that our former cop Mayor Eric Adams isn't going to do anything about it, especially when one of his earlier prominent acts when he still just Borough President of Brooklyn was declaring he wouldn't do anything about his staff abusing their city parking placards to park illegally.
posted by star gentle uterus at 1:07 PM on January 9, 2023 [37 favorites]

The problem is that a lot of the people pulling this shit are cops, or are connected with cops. Police corruption means that nobody's going to bust of their own for breaking the law, so the problem is intractable without politicians taking it seriously. And politicians don't take it seriously because they don't want to get on the wrong side of the corrupt NYPD.
posted by SansPoint at 1:08 PM on January 9, 2023 [15 favorites]

I love how the billion-dollar-budget NYPD "lacks resources" to do anything.

Unrelated to criminal drivers/cops being cops, I admit to feeling uneasy about laws making surveillance of citizens easier, as a general rule.
posted by emjaybee at 1:09 PM on January 9, 2023 [10 favorites]

I’d settle for license plate covers to be bootable offenses from parking officers. Doesn’t matter where you’re from—license cover is a $500 fine and you aren’t moving until you pay it.

It’d be nice if NYC had a law like that, but there’s no reason Yonkers or any other town couldn’t do it and that would go a long way towards enforcement in the city too.
posted by thecaddy at 1:10 PM on January 9, 2023 [16 favorites]

I love how the billion-dollar-budget NYPD "lacks resources" to do anything.

10 billion per year! A tenth of the City's budget!
posted by entropone at 1:11 PM on January 9, 2023 [11 favorites]

I love how the billion-dollar-budget NYPD "lacks resources" to do anything.


It was ever thus. A year ago the Ottawa police declared their budget of $347 million left them unable to do anything but shrug when hundreds of antivaxxer protesters took over downtown for weeks. A lawyer friend of mine in Ottawa pointed out that it was an open secret that this was a po-po tantrum at not getting the $350 million budget they requested. “We’d love to help you out, really, but we are spread soooo thin right now...”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:23 PM on January 9, 2023 [10 favorites]

Holy crap. I thought this was going to be about those stupid, legally dubious plastic covers people put on their plates to make them slightly more difficult to read from high angles, but this is just blatant covering of the numbers.

So those awful thin blue line stickers weren't effective enough plumage for these jerks that they decided to start obliterating the numbers on their plates? I wonder how much this has to do with cameras and automated plate readers not having any "respect" those stupid little get-out-a-ticket-free-I'm-a-friend-of-a-cop stamps?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 1:35 PM on January 9, 2023 [6 favorites]

Just a reminder that the NYPD will arrest you for fare evasion on the subway (except if you're a Proud Boy) but won't do anything if you're doing illegal stuff with your car.

Can we please just have the DOT do traffic enforcement?
posted by entropone at 1:36 PM on January 9, 2023 [16 favorites]

Too few of New York's political leaders are eager to go down those paths, so the burden of enforcement will likely fall to the public, much as it does with the City's law that allows New Yorkers to report idling vehicles and collect some of the fine.

Brooklyn State Senator Andrew Gounardes is the sponsor of a bill that would create this kind of program for obscured or defaced license plates. And City Councilmember Lincoln Restler is the sponsor of a bill that would allow New Yorkers to report illegally parked vehicles.

"These idiots who think that they're better than everyone else: Stop covering your damn plates. Stop speeding," Gounardes said. "Your ability to get wherever you gotta go in your souped up Mazda, 37 seconds faster than me, when I'm trying to cross the street with my kid in a stroller—your right to travel does not overcome my right to travel the streets safely. So cut it out."

Right on.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:58 PM on January 9, 2023 [19 favorites]

And yet you get a ticket for parking with a hitch rack because your plate is “obscured.” So sick of this a-holes.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 2:09 PM on January 9, 2023 [1 favorite]

So, that guy meant "36 mph" over the limit, right?
posted by 3j0hn at 2:17 PM on January 9, 2023 [1 favorite]

I don't play the lottery, but I do enjoy the best part of playing the lottery: imagining what I might do with the winnings.
One thing that gives me great joy is imagining a hobby of finding people like this who have ambition and the fire to change things that are wrong and giving them a budget.

I think for a lot of activists involved in things like helping their community be less hostile to pedestrians or cyclists (or cleaning up needles from parks, or that one lady who waves down fast cars and politely asks them to slow down, etc), the money would be very effectively used, no matter how much.
People who are already putting in the time and effort to be helpers are great. If I were 'rich', finding these people would be a great pastime.

In reality I just end up annoying my local representatives with emails a lot. Less fun!
posted by Acari at 2:27 PM on January 9, 2023 [13 favorites]

I’d settle for license plate covers to be bootable offenses from parking officers. Doesn’t matter where you’re from—license cover is a $500 fine and you aren’t moving until you pay it.

Too easy to obscure the plate of a parked car in the hope of having hummer owner be fined, well said like this it’s more feature than bug but you can see what I mean. You at least have to give the driver a chance to inspect his vehicle and correct he plate situation before driving it.

Around here I seem to remember obscures plates are take very seriously.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 2:28 PM on January 9, 2023 [2 favorites]

I always thought active license plates were technically the property of the state and that this was one of the ways that they made sure any alterations/misuse was a serious offense because you're messing with state property.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 2:36 PM on January 9, 2023 [4 favorites]

I’d bet there’s a significant organized crime component to this as well, and that there are modes of covering the plates that cops recognize as a signature and know to ignore.
posted by jamjam at 2:37 PM on January 9, 2023 [3 favorites]

"I love how the billion-dollar-budget NYPD "lacks resources" to do anything."


This is the blanket response from police departments and their supporters from pretty much every big city in the U.S. in response to any kind of criticism of them. I wish I had a dime for every time I've heard one of these:

"We don't have the budget to do that." "We're understaffed." "We'd need to hire X more cops to take on that problem." "All our cops are too busy dealing with more serious crimes."

There is an intense PR campaign being conducted by law enforcement types from across the board to protect and enhance their existing money supply.

Meanwhile, in cities like San Francisco, you literally have video recordings of cops sitting idly in their cars watching crimes being committed right in front of them... It's outright extortion. Might as well be a mafia-controlled protection racket. Worse in some ways, since they're operating with the tacit approval of, and funding from, people in legitimate positions of power.
posted by mikeand1 at 2:48 PM on January 9, 2023 [13 favorites]

When people start to complain too much about covered plates, the cops start handing out tickets for the black plastic license plate frames that most dealers/auto shops put on, since they “obscure the plate”. Malicious compliance FTW.
posted by dr_dank at 3:15 PM on January 9, 2023 [1 favorite]

i see stuff like this all the time in michigan and we don't even have traffic cameras - i think it's becoming real obvious that many laws simply aren't going to be enforced

by the way a person who violates civil ordinances or laws is called a tortfeasor, not a criminal - just one more thing that doesn't impress me about mr snitch
posted by pyramid termite at 3:40 PM on January 9, 2023 [2 favorites]

All our cops are too busy dealing with more serious crimes."

Any law that cops are officially to busy to enforce just straight up shouldn't be crimes. Because the only time they will be applied is as a cludgel against the less fortunate or disadvantaged.
posted by Mitheral at 3:58 PM on January 9, 2023 [13 favorites]

a person who violates civil ordinances or laws is called a tortfeasor

Well, a tortfeasor is a someone who commits a tort. An infraction is not, in itself, a tort (although it may establish some of the elements of one).

I think it varies somewhat by jurisdiction and context, but at least some traffic infractions in some jurisdictions are considered criminal in nature and potentially subject to jury-trial requirements and the like. (Although demanding a jury trial for a traffic ticket is not generally recommended.)

My devotion to nitpickery does not currently extend to actually researching whether this is the case for the relevant NY law, although I am mildly curious.
posted by Not A Thing at 4:05 PM on January 9, 2023 [3 favorites]

This drives me absolutely nuts, and I appreciate the work he's doing. Around here (Seattle area) I don't notice the leaves, duct tape, etc -- although I'll probably start noticing it -- it's Teslas with no front plates, out-of-state plates that expired ages ago, and all those stupid covers.
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:37 PM on January 9, 2023 [1 favorite]

Civil infraction, noun. Crime, but the government doesn't have to go to the trouble of chain-of-evidence, innocent-until-proven-guilty, and all of those other annoying loopholes that just protect criminals before securing a conviction and penalty.
posted by Hatashran at 4:58 PM on January 9, 2023

They should all just move down here to NC. License plates are entirely optional as far as I can tell.
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 6:22 PM on January 9, 2023 [3 favorites]

Time to get out the brake fluid and start squirting these assholes' paint. (I like brake fluid because it's easy to obtain and you can keep it in a bicycle water bottle when someone needs a quick spritz. Just don't drink it by mistake!)

That's the only sort of thing that's going to change behavior. When people realize that acting like a shitlord will actually get their car vandalized (or straight-up get the shit beaten out of them), they'll stop doing it. Nothing else is going to cut it.

The law here has clearly failed. Seems like it's time to start figuring out how to bring the pain on the people who deserve to feel it.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:23 PM on January 9, 2023 [5 favorites]

jamjam I’d bet there’s a significant organized crime component to this as well, and that there are modes of covering the plates that cops recognize as a signature and know to ignore.

Well, seeing as the NYPD is the biggest gang in NYC...
posted by SansPoint at 5:49 AM on January 10, 2023 [5 favorites]

It's Teslas with no front plate

If I had the money and free time, I would take up the vigilante hobby of drilling front bumpers to install front plates holders (and probably a color photo of the rear plate - still working on details) on all the "luxury" cars (Teslas are a big slice here, but far from the only offenders) that don't include them for "style". (in California, a state with a two plate requirement )
posted by 3j0hn at 10:40 AM on January 10, 2023 [1 favorite]

Just a minute, 3j0hn -‌- License Plate Wrap is coming.
posted by Rash at 12:48 PM on January 10, 2023 [1 favorite]

I've definitely seen those in the wild, but I feel like the threat of a madman running around and drilling bumpers to mount traditional metal plates might encourage people to drop the $120 to get a wrap plate. As per the OP there seems to be 0 risk of getting a fix-it ticket for lack of front plate, let alone even lack of a place to even mount one.

This is really a regulatory oversight in CA where dealers are allowed to sell cars where there is no way to mount a plate on the front without the owner doing some DIY or paying extra. The fact that AB-984 makes more types of non-official plates legal is great, but it really should be required at vehicle purchase time to have one of those, or else a traditional mount.

Yes, I am upset by this, even though it's only been a couple years since CA made a law making it okay to ticket cars for not having any plates at all.
posted by 3j0hn at 3:05 PM on January 10, 2023

How do they ticket them, if they don't have a plate?
posted by The corpse in the library at 5:12 PM on January 10, 2023

Your 17-digit Vehicle ID (VID number) is usually visible through the lower corner of the windshield, under the driver's windshield wiper.
posted by Rash at 6:07 PM on January 10, 2023 [1 favorite]

As Rash says, for parked cars the owner can be looked up via the VIN. But, I was thinking of enforcement via traffic stops -- before 2018, in California you could be pulled over for having a broken tail light, but not for having no plates on your car.
posted by 3j0hn at 9:45 PM on January 10, 2023

Your 17-digit Vehicle ID (VID number) is usually visible through the lower corner of the windshield, under the driver's windshield wiper.

Police also don't enforce existing laws that would reduce their likelihood of traffic stop ambushes such as ticketing cars with illegally tinted windows and requiring them to remove the tinting. In Chicago I see cars with fully blacked out windows where you cannot even tell if there is a driver all the time.

jamjam I’d bet there’s a significant organized crime component to this as well, and that there are modes of covering the plates that cops recognize as a signature and know to ignore.

The signal for city workers and contractors to park illegally in Chicago is a high vis vest draped over the closed car door of the parked car. This let's the City Renue parking enforcement know they are not to be ticketed much like a Police Memorial Illinois license plate says don't write me a ticket. Also city politicians security convoys are exempted from traffic camera enforcement for some reason (the think of the children rationale used by the city for it's camera enforcement justification doesn't apply to mayors apparently). Also in Illinois low numbered license plates are a sign of significant clout so those probably aren't really messed with either. There are lots of "signals" in use once you learn to look for them.
posted by srboisvert at 2:15 PM on January 12, 2023 [1 favorite]

Forget obscuring the plate, you just gotta add an apostrophe and a bit of SQL magic. Voila! Nobody gets a ticket!

I remember reading about how Russian culture evolved from soviet times through dictatorship into a sort of pervasive "you gotta do what you gotta do to get by" mentality of hustling, grifting and generally accepted 'cheating' of cultural norms from driving on sidewalks through exploiting any possible connection to power to make your life easier in any way. I think American society is on that path as well, with extreme wealth inequality, and ascending fascism politically being main contributors.

I feel a bit torn: I'm generally against constant public surveillance, but I'm also a rules-stickler and plate-obscuring pisses me off. But most especially when done by people in government/public service roles.
posted by onehalfjunco at 9:20 AM on January 13, 2023 [3 favorites]