Russ Jones: Your ADHD Big Brother

January 11, 2023 7:10 AM

I want to share a podcast I've found helpful as I learn to cope with ADHD as an adult - something many of us working from home are discovering about ourselves. That podcast is ADHD Big Brother. Russ Jones is a single dad in his 40s who wants to help other adults who are also struggling with adhd and co-morbid depression symptoms. Each episode is a quick reminder to be kind to yourself, some advice about coping skills, and some high-energy banter thrown in too. Two good episodes are Why Affirmations Don't Work and Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria.

Apple Podcasts - Google Podcasts - Stitcher - Castbox - RSS - Pocket Casts - Overcast - Bullhorn - Castro - Player FM - Podcast Addict - Podbean - Podhero - Podcast Guru - Podcast Republic - Podfriend - RadioPublic - Sonnet - Subscribe on Android

posted by rebent (55 comments total)

Thank you! I've been needing something like this. I was listening to the WSJ podcast on Cerebral yesterday, and I started doing that extremely common (I think) thing where when you have ADHD and it's being managed, you immediately wonder if you actually have it or if you're a huge faker baby.

But we aren't. We're just getting through our days and lives as best we can.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 7:59 AM on January 11, 2023 [22 favorites]

wonder if you actually have it or if you're a huge faker baby.

I wasn't diagnosed until my late 30s, and it was really hard to shake this. Now I notice the difference between days with medication and days without so starkly that it finally persuaded me to stop blaming myself for failures of willpower or discipline or whatever.
posted by LooseFilter at 8:05 AM on January 11, 2023 [24 favorites]

I'm glad for this post, it's well timed for me. I'm currently in the process of being evaluated for ADHD as an adult. It's very genetic in my family; my son and my brother have both been diagnosed, my dad is undiagnosed but probably has it, and I feel like I have a lot of the symptoms and traits. But I'm also an adult woman with an atypical ADHD profile: I was historically a good student, have had consistent employment, no complaints from supervisors, not egregiously late or forgetful. I hear that it presents differently in women and we're conditioned to mask it more (I do a lot of "procrastinate until no other options, then do all the work while screaming" behind the scenes). My counselor is kind, but I have to jump through a lot of hoops for a diagnosis and she's offering suggestions like "how are you with lists?" which makes me think she doesn't really get it. But I do second-guess myself if I actually have it. My daughter is so clearly not ADHD compared to my son, and it makes me wonder if maybe it's just the men in my family who get it, and am I looking for shortcuts to make life easier, etc. etc.

Regardless, pills don't build skills, as they say, so I'm trying to learn some ADHD-management techniques on the assumption that I do have it or at least a subclinical version of it, in case my diagnosis doesn't pan out and I can't get medication. I will definitely be giving this podcast a listen.
posted by castlebravo at 8:46 AM on January 11, 2023 [16 favorites]

oooh this looks great, thanks for posting
posted by mrjohnmuller at 9:05 AM on January 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

I am into my 40’s without a formal diagnosis, thank you for sharing this as it’s another impetus to get me to make an appointment for formal evaluation. This is an aspect of my aneurotypicality that I’ve been able to push off for a long time but Covid has made it achingly clear that I probably need professional help. It sounds like others have had a similar experience.
posted by q*ben at 9:06 AM on January 11, 2023 [2 favorites]

As someone who was only diagnosed in my late 30s, due in large part to social media feeding me ADHD content, I am all for more ADHD educational content, both to help ADHDers gain skills and to make the wider population more aware that it is a lot more complex than little boys who can't sit still in school and that, in fact, most people do not grow out of it as they reach adulthood.

Also, the gifted student to struggling in adulthood due to undiagnosed ADHD pipeline is very real (and, as castlebravo notes, more common in girls and women due to both socialization and possible biological differences). I know. It was me. Especially in the mid-80s and early-90s, when ADHD was still very much thought of as a condition that mostly affected boys and presented as hyperactivity, I would never have been diagnosed because very few people knew that it could present any other way. I wonder if this explains, in part, why I was friends with a lot of kids who did have formal ADHD diagnoses when I was younger.
posted by asnider at 9:17 AM on January 11, 2023 [16 favorites]

I was diagnosed at 39 years old, in 2020. I have struggled daily with anxiety about the diagnosis (am I actually ADHD? does the medicine help me or just move things faster? why does it seem like everyone is so hesitant to treat me), feeling like a weakling or a phony or, since staying with a provider has been such an enormous challenge, like a drug-seeker. Every single thing I read or hear about ADHD makes me feel more confident that my personal history and my current state is being described, but it doesn't seem to get through to me. Starting medication didn't silence the incessant nattering in my own head, as I thought it would; it just lets me live (and work) through and past the nattering.

Anyway. I have nothing to add except thank you for this, and good luck to all the other folks with ADHD who have or will check in on this thread.
posted by penduluum at 9:33 AM on January 11, 2023 [9 favorites]

I was diagnosed as a child, but my parents opted not to medicate me. I started ADHD meds as an adult in my mid-30s, and it has been life changing.

The way I feel about taking ADHD meds has been informed by Driven From Distraction by Dr. Hallowell. He compares it to wearing glasses, and since I wear glasses every day so my eyes work properly, I don't need to have any issue with taking ADHD meds to help my brain work properly.
posted by SansPoint at 10:58 AM on January 11, 2023 [14 favorites]

Need to plan out some time to listen to an episode, I keep getting distracted.

…yeah I should probably get evaluated and formally diagnosed.
posted by bxvr at 10:59 AM on January 11, 2023 [2 favorites]

But I'm also an adult woman with an atypical ADHD profile: I was historically a good student, have had consistent employment, no complaints from supervisors, not egregiously late or forgetful.

I did get evaluated by my HMO (note: the one most in the news for being a failure at mental health and absolutely not wanting to provide that) and they said I was undiagnosable. Presumably they were checking for anything really, really impeding my life (or that I was actively suicidal/drugging/cutting or something?), but if I've got it, it isn't impeding my ability to live, and that seems to be what they were looking for.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:14 AM on January 11, 2023 [2 favorites]

Excellent thanks I'm definitely going to be listening to the episode on RSD.

I found the Neurodivergent Woman podcast really good too. Especially their episode on the overlap between Autism and ADHD.
posted by Zumbador at 11:42 AM on January 11, 2023 [5 favorites]

I did get evaluated by my HMO (note: the one most in the news for being a failure at mental health and absolutely not wanting to provide that) and they said I was undiagnosable. Presumably they were checking for anything really, really impeding my life (or that I was actively suicidal/drugging/cutting or something?), but if I've got it, it isn't impeding my ability to live, and that seems to be what they were looking for.

I've forgotten the thing exactly or where I saw it but it was something along the lines of, "Oh, I'm not X, I Just Have A System, and things get done. That's means it's not X." With responses of, "The system is the mechanism by which you are still with us."

So an HMO checking to see if you have impediments to living is like, no, guys, you check for the Rugged Engineering of things that keep the living from being impeded. Like that bit from WWII of "where do we up-armor the bombers".
posted by Slackermagee at 11:47 AM on January 11, 2023 [14 favorites]

I recently saw an Instagram reel or some other short form video called "Did I take my medicine or not?" and in the comments someone wrote: "If I didn't, then it will be noon, every cupboard in the house will be open and I will not have gotten anything done" I was diagnosed when I got married in 1994 at the young age of 28, but quit taking my medicine at the time because I was getting a twitchy eye and thought it was disrupting my sleep. I've restarted taking dextroamphetamine at age 56 because I realized that anxiety was causing the insomnia, and realized I was also using anxiety and self-loathing to regulate my productivity.

I am looking forward to this podcast.

Creators deserve to get paid, but the conversion funnel is tediously the same on so many sites--podcast, e-course, book, etc.
posted by mecran01 at 11:54 AM on January 11, 2023 [7 favorites]

I’ve suspected I have ADHD for years but was finally diagnosed two days ago. I’m really grateful you posted these resources, rebent.
posted by donatella at 12:18 PM on January 11, 2023 [10 favorites]

I’m 4 minutes into a recent podcast and he still hasn’t gotten anywhere. Maybe this the audible equivalent to the digression before the recipe. And now that he’s got to it - the first strut offered is to talk to 4 different people. That isn’t particularly brilliant and isn’t appropriate for the vast majority impulsive situations. Waiting 30 days and moving forms of payment out of reach are offered next. It’s a bit of a lad’s magazine- the cursing is fun, and it sounds like he’s on an adventure, but maybe it’s not for me. Especially as I listen at almost double speed.

I do love seeing these resources and different viewpoints entering the fray.
posted by zenon at 12:36 PM on January 11, 2023 [4 favorites]

I've forgotten the thing exactly or where I saw it but it was something along the lines of, "Oh, I'm not X, I Just Have A System, and things get done. That's means it's not X." With responses of, "The system is the mechanism by which you are still with us."

Could it be this tweet?

Neurodivergent screening tests will be like "do you struggle with wearing socks" and ND people will be like "nope does not describe me, for you see I have a System" and folks that is what the question is getting at

I laughed at this one, but then it got me thinking about why I don't eat meat. It wasn't because of the morals (although that has become genuinely important to me) but from a sudden textural repulsion in childhood. Being vegetarian started out as a System.

I am still struggling with reordering my life, having lived it just as castlebravo describes, thinking until this past couple of years that I was just a talented dilettante who lacked discipline and grit and etc.
posted by Countess Elena at 12:37 PM on January 11, 2023 [17 favorites]

I relate to the RSD thing big time. BIG TIME. I don't forget or forgive those disses and I cut people off or way downgrade them in my behavior when they do it. (But really, shouldn't I?) But when he said ADHD people get something like 20,000 (?) more insults...well, YES, OBVIOUSLY YOU FEEL LIKE COMPLETE SHIT WHEN EVERYONE ELSE TELLS YOU YOU'RE WRONG AND BAD ALL THE TIME. When you are a constant fuckup (note: go read the FanFare thread on "Spare" if you want more commentary on coming off as "Prince Thicko" and the like), of course everyone tells you you are and of course you hate yourself and of course you can't lie to yourself and tell yourself you're wonderful and deserve to be loved, because you don't when you are a constant fuckup and make everyone mad just by being you.

I'm not entirely sure if I comprehend the System conversation or if I'm getting it right, but it reminds me of how I need to be knitting/crocheting/otherwise DOING SOMETHING ELSE while say, sitting still and watching/listening to someone. Most people do not, will not, cannot, refuse to understand that I need to do that and if I'm not keeping some part of my body occupied with something fairly mindless, I will not actually be paying attention to you. A few people over the years while in school have let me demonstrate to them that yes, I was still following the conversation and let me be, but as an adult, nobody will ever give me that hall pass.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:46 PM on January 11, 2023 [18 favorites]

I too was diagnosed with ADHD later in life - at 41, in fact. It was really eye-opening to talk to the person doing the assessment and actually realizing that many of my issues were in fact just my brain and that it was not a moral failing to, for example, need any of the systems I created for myself to function like a "normal" adult or to not really grasp the neurotypical social models that I felt like I had to religiously study and analyze to truly understand. (Or to be tired all the time - until I was evaluated I had no idea that fatigue was a common ADHD symptom!) Medication isn't a magic bullet, but it does feel magical to be able to sit down and do a boring task without having to work up to it, or to have the energy after work to actually cook dinner from scratch and maybe do a household task or two instead of being burnt out from hyperfocus.

Anyway. All that to say THANK YOU for posting this, rebent. If it helps someone else realize that they aren't alone in their experience and that there are others with the same challenges out there then that's a net positive. Now to actually go check it out...
posted by daikaisho at 12:55 PM on January 11, 2023 [5 favorites]

Strongly recommend the Something Shiny podcast as well, by two therapists with ADHD.
posted by lookoutbelow at 1:14 PM on January 11, 2023 [8 favorites]

Neurodivergent screening tests will be like "do you struggle with wearing socks" and ND people will be like "nope does not describe me, for you see I have a System" and folks that is what the question is getting at

Thank you, Countess Elena and Slackermagee.

Also: Oh shit. Can folks in this thread please say more about "that is what the question is getting at"? Because I have a lot of systems.
posted by MonkeyToes at 1:42 PM on January 11, 2023 [5 favorites]

Wait... you mean not everybody has systems???
posted by rpfields at 2:01 PM on January 11, 2023 [4 favorites]

From what I can tell, neurodivergent people need systems to do things that neurotypicals just... do. Do you have a flow chart in your head for socks/no socks? Does doing laundry require 3-4 hours of lead time to psych yourself up? Have you developed routines that help you do things like take your medications, wash your face at night, pay your bills, or actually eat?

Talking about this sort of thing with a neurotypical person will 100% get you strange looks, but all the ND people I know get it.
posted by daikaisho at 2:03 PM on January 11, 2023 [18 favorites]

I suspect I have inattentive ADHD. I am not entirely sure the person my doctor referred me to knew what inattentive ADHD was. The first thing she asked me was, "Did you hear about this through TikTok? Because a lot of people are diagnosing themselves through TikTok." (Would she have approved if I said "no, I diagnosed myself through Metafilter?" Probably not.)

I have a system, developed over the past five years of of my life, that keeps my mental and physical health on an even keel: morning and evening routines, several checklists, a physical and digital calendar, about ten alarms that go off every day, a weekly review, a heavy watch around my wrist that sets off my sensory issues but reminds me that I should stand up from time to time, and more. Sticking to the system is absolutely exhausting, but when I do not do so, my life devolves into chaos, and it is very hard to drag myself back out of it and back into my routine. To her, the existence of this system meant I was fine. "People with ADD don't have good days and bad days. They're all bad days."

After I told her about having depression, and about the many things I've done to manage it, she informed me I had depression. Also, that my family had given me PTSD. (Yes, my family has some issues. No, they have not given me PTSD.)

Anyway, I find that when I treat myself as if I have ADHD and use whatever strategies I can find, my life gets a lot better. I'd still like to try medication, but I don't really know where to go from here as far as that's concerned. I can clearly see how it's affected me in the past, but with my better coping methods it is not all that bad right now. Just exhausting.
posted by shirobara at 2:12 PM on January 11, 2023 [9 favorites]

"People with ADD don't have good days and bad days. They're all bad days." WTF? I am sorry you have gotten a terrible referral, shirobara. I hope you can get a better one someday. My friends are sometimes annoyed by the bazillion alarms on my phone but that’s how I remember to take my meds, eat, etc. May things improve soon for many of us. Thanks for the post!
posted by Bella Donna at 2:41 PM on January 11, 2023 [10 favorites]

Thanks for posting this. I'm not very good at podcasts but will look for transcripts tomorrow when I have a better internet connexion.

I'm working with a decluttering coach who has pointed me to an online session for people who have been newly diagnosed with ADHD. I'm not attending (it has participation breakout sessions so I noped right out) but if anyone would like the details please MeMail me. It is tomorrow (12th) at 7pm UK time for two hours, cost £35 - unsure if there are future ones planned. The people running it look decent as far as I can tell.
posted by paduasoy at 2:57 PM on January 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

“that is what the question is getting at“

Well. A system can mean many things. It’s an adaptation, generally routine, to build out and achieve the desired/planned/needed result. If making certain generic decisions are a mental chore for you then you can minimize that by narrowing where and how you purchase shirts. If certain fabrics just feel awful and scratchy then you further limit your shirts to a few specific brands. And then layer up so you appear normal. Do not wear the same looking shirt every day, people will form negative opinions. And then scents are generally gross and always a nuisance so you launder in die free no scent and then after a period the shirts need a bit of softener so you debate logging the number of times washed on the tag but you removed those, except for the shirts you wear inside out, but those tags are black.

That’s my current shirt system. It could be improved. Relative to other routines this is relatively flexible, I can deviate a bit. I just have opinions, and luckily it’s mostly for items that go around my neck. Why be uncomfortable? Contrast that with my partners “OCD” about how she only wants white clothes hangers because of how it makes the closet look. Material? Design? The form and function is immaterial- future happiness is assured with the thing as long as it’s white. There is no adaptation needed, no further improvement or optimization.

Or the system might be to engage in your socialization with a text based medium where communication generally has to be unambiguous, and does not require inferences from tone, body language or facial expressions. A simple text forum without dark patterns of brief engagement, but one that permits/encourages longer wordy responses.
posted by zenon at 3:12 PM on January 11, 2023 [5 favorites]

TLDR- I read too much on metafilter and have long convoluted answers that meander, in part* because I have ADHD. The routines are the ADHD.

*the other part is I adore you and want you to have the fullest best answer. (Note:also ADHD)
posted by zenon at 3:19 PM on January 11, 2023 [5 favorites]

Need to plan out some time to listen to an episode, I keep getting distracted.

See and I found that I had to force myself to stop listening to episodes because I was no longer absorbing what he was saying. I'm going to have to find a way to simultaneously force & remind myself to only listen to a couple each morning. I know that if I just power through them all, I'll burn out on it in a few hours. That's how my particular brand of ADHD manifests itself. Different strokes, right?
posted by penduluum at 3:50 PM on January 11, 2023 [2 favorites]

I’m looking forward to checking out this podcast; I’ve downloaded a few to sample! Thanks for the new resource. I’m not in a place now to be diagnosed, but hearing techniques and stories from ADD gives me a lot of different tools to use in the mischief my brain gets up to. I’m very much in the “throw the whole pot of spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks” camp for things like this.

I’ve learned a few good things from “It’s the ADHD-Friendly Show” - it’s a little hokey at times, but her recommendations and energy are great. She does a good job of emphasizing the benefits of being neurodivergent.
posted by punchtothehead at 4:18 PM on January 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

in fact....
ADHD is not ADHD.

Ahem. What we call ADHD is a label for a group of similar outcomes based on differences in the development of the Executive Function.

The executive function is like a tech tree, where you have to max out one tech level, and combine it with another tech, to achieve the next tech level.

There's working memory ("If I do this, that happens"), inhibition control (I don't want that to happen, so I better not do that), visual working memory, verbal working memory, selective attention, and a few other base skills. And they combine to create.... strategic planning, organizational skills, goal setting, cognitive flexibility, and all sorts of advanced stuff.

I picked up on this while reading a couple ADHD books and listening to podcasts and videos. A lot of people are parroting what they hear from the scientists, and scientists are bad communicators. So a lot of people say "All adhd is like this" or "this is what adhd is".

For me, that's not true. For me, I've realized that my biggest struggle is with impulse control. Fantastic memory, smart as a whip, fantastic concentration. But I find my body and brain going off and doing things that my mind hasn't given the OK for. I will find myself clicking to a new tab, or find that I've left the video game I'm loving to play and have my head in the fridge even tho I just ate.

So, for me, somewhere along the development of my brain, the thing that deals with impulse didn't form the same way as others.

But it's not "playing life on hard mode" any more than playing as zerg is playing StarCraft on hard mode. I just need a different strategy. A rush of small investments so I can switch all the time and not lose out, instead of trying to invest in one big thing that I know I'll never get through. Being very mindful in my conversations to relax and listen and enjoy, just enjoy listening. Stuff like that.

So yeah, I wish I could recommend a book or video on this but I've honestly not found anything that really "works" for me, I've only figured this out by comparing notes I've taken from a few different books and podcasts. Maybe I'm off base. But - yeah, ADHD is not ADHD.
posted by rebent at 4:20 PM on January 11, 2023 [12 favorites]

I’m interested in this, but would be grateful to know where it falls on the spectrum between social and medical models of disability before I dive in. Anyone care to share? Thanks for the post!
posted by The Last Sockpuppet at 5:16 PM on January 11, 2023

It's disappointing to see yet another podcast without a transcript. Isn't audio processing disorder often comorbid with ADHD? (I have neither but am hard of hearing.)
posted by nezlamnyy at 5:27 PM on January 11, 2023 [11 favorites]

The other piece of the "have a system" thing that helped me explain to people is that the system does not always work. A neurotypical friend was replying to my examples with "well that happens to me too" and so on, until I explained that I have to remember the specific order of what to do in the shower (four things), and it still sometimes does not work. Yes, everyone forgets things sometimes. But when you 1) spend inordinate effort, time and thought trying to accomplish the thing, 2) still sometimes don't succeed, and 3) beat yourself up horrifically on those occasions (for what neurotypical people often would see as an inconsequential mistake if they did it), that's ADHD. But it presents in lots of different ways, and questionnaires cannot capture this.
posted by lookoutbelow at 6:26 PM on January 11, 2023 [8 favorites]

Another thanks here from someone who finds this timely indeed. I just recently looked into getting evaluated for ADHD, but the exorbitant cost of the process under my current insurance more or less put me off the idea.

It feels like a bit of a gamble on whether or not I can manage it well enough to find employment first that will accommodate the expense. In the meantime I'm glad to be made aware of resources like this podcast, for sure.
posted by otsebyatina at 9:19 PM on January 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

So my evaluation at age 35 in early 2019 was my GP doctor just asking me a few simple questions and prescribing my Adderall. My therapist had to convince me to bring it up to him.

So maybe your GP could help. If insurance is still awful then, our country fucking blows and I am sorry. It will be worth any hassle and pain if you can.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 10:04 PM on January 11, 2023

Thanks for the tip, OnTheLastCastle. My initial step was to bring it up with my primary care provider during a routine physical, but I guess based on my responses they thought it was presenting atypically and gave me a referral to a psychiatrist. Was going to follow through on that, but the office had an eight month wait, and by the time I found one taking new patients presently I had realized the cost issue and demurred.

It's odd, because I'm very reluctant to consider myself as having ADHD without a formal diagnosis, but I continue to seek out those that are diagnosed to learn from how they manage having it. So like, I want to express sympathy and appreciation at times, but feel a bit like I'm out of line participating overmuch in their spaces.
posted by otsebyatina at 10:27 PM on January 11, 2023 [3 favorites]

otsebyatina, you’re not out of line participating in our spaces unless you’re starting your sentences with “why don’t you just…”

Also, imposters syndrome is really really common among us. We’ve been beating ourselves up our whole lives for falling short when we know we can do the thing, so we’re convinced we’re just lazy and not really trying hard enough (despite the fact that we’ve tried a hundred ridiculous systems). Taking meds for the first time gives most of us the hint that.. no.. we’ve been working WAY harder than everyone else. But still, we often still need a lot of therapy to get over self-defeating negative self-talk that we’ve ingrained for years or decades.

I guess what I’m saying is, if you see the symptoms in yourself, but you feel like you’re an imposter about it.. that’s also a symptom.

And the “did you diagnose yourself on TikTok” thing really grinds my gears. I’ve heard from a psychiatrist who has specialized in ADHD for decades that the vast majority of his adult ADHD patients came in with a self-diagnosis. The symptoms are rarely visible to other people. Someone else might say, “oh look, your leg is broken, you should go get that checked out” but if you’re always late for meetings they’re just going to assume you don’t care, for instance. Self-diagnosis is the norm, not the exception, for adults.
posted by antinomia at 1:16 AM on January 12, 2023 [9 favorites]

(or if you’re never late for meetings because you show up a hour early every time to make SURE you’re not late for the meeting)
posted by antinomia at 1:28 AM on January 12, 2023 [7 favorites]

Oof yeah, my vaunted "punctuality" is for sure a function of allotting absurd quantities of time to the process of simply getting someplace. By this stage in life so much structure has been built up to support what may be a simulation of functional behavior that it takes some stepping back to notice the nature of what is actually being addressed by it all. Even those closest to me seem surprised to hear me describe the reasoning for approaching things as I do, astonished at the complexity of what appear to be simple idiosyncrasies.

Feeling like an imposter about feeling symptoms being itself a symptom is a relief to hear (and feels appropriate to learn about it here on MetaFilter). I'll keep that in mind and try to be less reluctant to participate in discussions on the subject. It's hard to imagine being a "why don't you just..." sort as you warn about, though I suppose there's a risk of exaggerating the effectiveness of my coping mechanisms prior to actually experiencing what it's like to be treated for ADHD with the right medication.

Regardless of how soon I'm able to try meds, I'll try to start putting in the work now to address the self-defeating negativity. No sense assuming drugs will be a panacea, and I surely could still go a long way with a more positive mindset alongside this newfound awareness of how this condition manifests. Thanks for sharing your insights, antinomia.
posted by otsebyatina at 3:22 AM on January 12, 2023 [3 favorites]

am I looking for shortcuts to make life easier

And even if so, what's wrong with using shortcuts to make life easier? Life is hard! Using tools/resources/shortcuts to make it easier isn't a moral failing!
posted by 168 at 6:08 AM on January 12, 2023 [5 favorites]

Seconding imposter syndrome being a sign. I've had numerous friends diagnosed with ADHD in the past few years. Prior to, they would say things preceded by five minutes of qualifications about how it's not that bad, they're not at all saying it's like people who really have it, they don't mean to undermine those people, then "I think I may have some ADHD traits but I'm probably just lazy/bad at stuff/making excuses". I wish this feeling went away after diagnosis but it doesn't as much as I would like.

The media constantly perpetuates a stigma against self-diagnosis and view that ADHD is widely over-diagnosed. I see these articles all the time. I understand that there are people who throw it around lightly. However, this shouldn't undermine the existence of people who rightly understand their own symptoms. ADHD is both over-diagnosed and under-diagnosed.
posted by lookoutbelow at 6:39 AM on January 12, 2023 [2 favorites]

I'm mid-30s, female, and have my official evaluation scheduled for early March (with results in mid-April theoretically). I never developed A System for doing things on time, I just developed Anxiety instead, so that's fun; I'm never late for things because oh my GOD if I walk in late then everyone's going to look at me and they'll KNOW that I am doomed to failure for my sin of not being able to organize things.

If we're linking adult-ADHD care podcasts, my therapist turned me on to KC Davis and her Struggle Care stuff. It's been immensely helpful in helping me reframe care tasks for myself.
posted by specialagentwebb at 7:02 AM on January 12, 2023 [1 favorite]

It's odd, because I'm very reluctant to consider myself as having ADHD without a formal diagnosis, but I continue to seek out those that are diagnosed to learn from how they manage having it. So like, I want to express sympathy and appreciation at times, but feel a bit like I'm out of line participating overmuch in their spaces.

I'd like to reframe that as you, without medication or a formal diagnosis, need even more support and encouragement. And most of us need a hell of a lot of support and encouragement even after diagnosis, therapy, medication, setting up systems, etc.

Since it's all an internal thing with us, it's very easy to doubt or exclude ourselves from conversations or spaces where we could get comradery and help. I've been mulling over systems, because I have sooooo many, and like I never lose my keys or wallet because I literally always put them in the same place. And I remember to do things because I run an exhaustive mental checklist before I leave my house or area often... I scramble back inside to turn something off. That's a system. My wife - who may or may not be NT - just kind of goes about her day without having these things guiding her. In fact, one time she moved my keys after using them and later I spent over an hour frantically searching for them just SURE that I was the one who lost them. Because I can't remember anything ever.

No, the system worked... but I was so instantly jumping to I did this that only when I texted her that I'd lost my keys did she say oh I put them in this other place (which I never would've found... like I said, she may not be NT after all.)
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 8:57 AM on January 12, 2023 [4 favorites]

Can I bring up one other thing related to ADHD and systems and memory? Mods remove a lot of comments in all threads, and I feel gaslit as hell every time. Someone messaged me a week or two ago asking about my depression because I had commented that a thread was really negative, but those negative comments were removed so I looked insane probably.

It really fucks with things and makes me feel like I should keep a record so I know I'm not imagining it.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 9:01 AM on January 12, 2023 [5 favorites]

It's odd, because I'm very reluctant to consider myself as having ADHD without a formal diagnosis, but I continue to seek out those that are diagnosed to learn from how they manage having it.

That's the great thing about this increased awareness and communication; everyone has executive function issues at times. Your boss sent you a "we need to talk" message and your brain is fried from the stress. You've just had a baby and are overwhelmed. You're having a depressive episode and still need to figure out how to feed yourself. No matter what the reason, sometimes you just do not have the focus and the ability to start things the way you need to, and a lot of these systems and mechanisms developed by or for ADHD individuals are extremely useful across the board.
posted by specialagentwebb at 9:05 AM on January 12, 2023 [5 favorites]

specialagentwebb: Your comment reminds me of the discourse a few years ago about whether it's wrong for someone who is able-bodied, has good vision, etc, to use software accessibility features on their devices. I can't, for the life of me, remember the justification against it. Sort of a "You don't need it, it's not for you" kind of nonsense, IIRC. It never made sense to me, because if you prefer how something works with an accessibility feature turned on, whether you "need" it or not, it's fine to use it that way. You're not taking away something from someone else to suit your preferences. Accessibility benefits everyone. The same applies to systems and tools for ADHD. If they benefit you, it's a benefit whether you have ADHD or not.
posted by SansPoint at 10:27 AM on January 12, 2023 [6 favorites]

Re: anxiety, a concept that has been very useful to me discussed on this Something Shiny podcast is that because ADHD brains are deficient in dopamine and struggle to do things without it, and anxiety produces dopamine, anxiety can sub-consciously become a habitual mechanism to get things done. Same goes for anger. They discuss trying to replace this with excitement instead. This is also why, for some people, ADHD meds reduce anxiety because they replace it as a means of getting enough dopamine.
posted by lookoutbelow at 10:53 AM on January 12, 2023 [14 favorites]

Wait... you mean not everybody has systems???

neurotypicals have habits for autopilot adulting
posted by Jacqueline at 11:47 AM on January 12, 2023 [3 favorites]

Following on lookoutbelow's great comment: after my late-in-life diagnosis and getting on the right stimulant medication, I thought my anxiety had gone down because it was easier to put tasks in order and be more productive. Procrastination tendencies were more manageable, getting through the to-do lists (plural; yes, there's a system) was easier, and I stopped getting lost while driving. I was screwing up less in general.

Much later, I also realized I wasn't as prone to replaying bad memories, holding imaginary arguments, and doing so much elaborate (maladaptive) daydreaming in a desperate effort to spur dopamine production.
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:58 PM on January 12, 2023 [9 favorites]

A few transcripts of ADHD-focused podcasts, though I can't vouch for content quality:

What is adult ADHD and how to treat it – The Conversation Weekly podcast transcript
ADHD Decoded, Episode Show Notes and Transcripts (scroll down)
The ADHD Gallery's “My Second Brain” Transcript
ADHD can disrupt adult life — here’s how to own it, transcript of interview with Russell Barkley ("professor of clinical psychiatry at the Virginia Commonwealth University Medical Center and a leading author and researcher on attention deficit hyperactivity disorder")
ADHD for Smart Ass Women - Transcripts
Long-running ADHD Experts Podcast from ADDitude has a "sign up for transcripts" link
posted by Iris Gambol at 4:17 PM on January 12, 2023 [2 favorites]

Wow, lookoutbelow, your comment above is mind-blowing to me. I have never ever heard of that concept, but will definitely check it out. It makes a ton of sense to me and may help explain a buddy with ADHD who is quick to anger. Or maybe not, either way, thank you so much!
posted by Bella Donna at 8:18 AM on January 14, 2023

Also, to rebent: I feel you on the impulse control front. We are not all the same, absolutely not. But I also missed the impulse control meter. Oddly, attending Al-Anon meetings over many years helped with that issue. I'm not perfect, but I am better and that's a win.
posted by Bella Donna at 8:27 AM on January 14, 2023 [1 favorite]

I believe that concept is discussed in this episode of the Something Shiny podcast, but also others. I cannot recall where else I've seen this.
posted by lookoutbelow at 9:51 AM on January 14, 2023 [2 favorites]

Hey, so for years I've been struggling with this but always thought, no, I'm just lazy, I just need to be more disciplined, one day I will figure this out. And I've also always thought, "no, I can't have ADHD because if you give me the right problem, I will sit for hours and try to figure it out without eating or even getting up." I don't know what caused me last weekend to realize that "hyperfocus" is actually a symptom of ADHD, but I did. So I came here and read this thread and recognized so many things that I've struggled with over the years (maladaptive daydreaming?! definitely had that in my teens and twenties!). It is such a fucking relief to know that I'm not just crazy or a failure, but there's actually something going on.

Now I've got to, y'know, do something about it. But at least I have a path forward to do something about it other than try a new management system that will work until I get bored of it.

So, thank you so much to everybody in this thread!
posted by thecaddy at 8:35 PM on January 26, 2023 [5 favorites]

Another transcript here: How ADHD Disorients Women, a recent podcast from Slate.
posted by paduasoy at 11:46 AM on February 9, 2023 [1 favorite]