Viola Davis is the newest EGOT
February 6, 2023 5:00 AM Subscribe
American actor Viola Davis becomes the 18th person to reach EGOT status, after winning her first Grammy Award. EGOT = a person who has won an Emmy, a Grammy, an Oscar and a Tony award during their career, reflecting their work in television, music, film and theatre.
Philip Michael Thomas needs to get it in gear already.
posted by Naberius at 5:58 AM on February 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Naberius at 5:58 AM on February 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
Looking through the list of EGOT winners, it skews heavily toward music composers, which seems a little off for me; Viola Davis is a multidisciplinary miracle; Andrew Lloyd Weber, Tim Rice, Alan Mencken et al are "just" composers. They have not mastered the craft of acting to perform on stage and in front of a camera, whereas EGOT winners who are primarily actors have also had to be brilliant musicians.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:10 AM on February 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:10 AM on February 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
EGOT winners who are primarily actors have also had to be brilliant musicians.
I think there's some fair overlap between the set of good actors and good singers. According to the article though, "Davis secured the G in her EGOT by winning a Grammy Award for best audiobook, narration, and storytelling recording for her memoir Finding Me."
posted by trig at 6:17 AM on February 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
I think there's some fair overlap between the set of good actors and good singers. According to the article though, "Davis secured the G in her EGOT by winning a Grammy Award for best audiobook, narration, and storytelling recording for her memoir Finding Me."
posted by trig at 6:17 AM on February 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
You could just as happily argue that the actor/musicians are 'just' performers, whereas Weber and Rice are composers, librettists, playwrights, creating work rather than 'merely' interpreting the compositions of others.
Really, I don't think either category is more valid than the other in that sense. Grammy awards for audiobook narration feel like more an inclusion on a technicality to me.
posted by Dysk at 6:20 AM on February 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
Really, I don't think either category is more valid than the other in that sense. Grammy awards for audiobook narration feel like more an inclusion on a technicality to me.
posted by Dysk at 6:20 AM on February 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
Rhode Island’s own! She deserves all the success.
posted by Ruki at 6:26 AM on February 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Ruki at 6:26 AM on February 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm 100% for including audiobook performances, because they are performances, usually pretty lengthy ones, and can add substantially to the work itself. And, of course, Davis is a great performer; I was very happy to read that new DC overlord James Gunn is planning a Peacemaker spin-off series titled Waller.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:30 AM on February 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:30 AM on February 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
Davis is the first person to get the EGOT strictly for performing either since Audrey Hepburn in 1993 -- if you're willing to count her hosting PBS a documentary about gardens, a juried award for which there were no other nominations -- or since John Gielgud in 1991 -- if you're willing to count a collective Tony for "Best Foreign Company" -- or since Helen Hayes in 1977, who unquestionably won all four as a performer in her own right. Which means that Viola Davis is the first actor to act her way to an EGOT since the first time anyone said the word EGOT.
posted by Etrigan at 6:40 AM on February 6, 2023 [21 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 6:40 AM on February 6, 2023 [21 favorites]
She is amazing!
posted by joannemerriam at 6:46 AM on February 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by joannemerriam at 6:46 AM on February 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
whereas EGOT winners who are primarily actors have also had to be brilliant musicians.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:10 AM on February 6 [1 favorite +] [!]
This isn't true. The EGOT winners who were primarily actors are Helen Hayes, Rita Moreno, John Gielgud, Audrey Hepburn, Whoopi Goldberg, Jennifer Hudson and Viola Davis. Out of those six, only Moreno and Hudson (and even then I am iffy if I consider Hudson a singer who acts or an actor who sings) won a Grammy for a musical performance (the rest won them for spoken word or, in Goldberg's case, a live standup album) and none of them won a Tony for performing in a musical.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 7:00 AM on February 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:10 AM on February 6 [1 favorite +] [!]
This isn't true. The EGOT winners who were primarily actors are Helen Hayes, Rita Moreno, John Gielgud, Audrey Hepburn, Whoopi Goldberg, Jennifer Hudson and Viola Davis. Out of those six, only Moreno and Hudson (and even then I am iffy if I consider Hudson a singer who acts or an actor who sings) won a Grammy for a musical performance (the rest won them for spoken word or, in Goldberg's case, a live standup album) and none of them won a Tony for performing in a musical.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 7:00 AM on February 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
Ruki: Rhode Island’s own!
It's worth pointing out that the town where Davis comes from -- Central Falls, Rhode Island -- is very small (one square mile) and very poor. The town declared bankruptcy a decade ago and came through it in a year, but it's just so small that they don't have enough business for a decent tax base.
Davis has visited the schools there and I believe given some money to them, but the community really struggles still. Without making her some kind of hero, I hope she can leverage her fame to bring something good to the community.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:08 AM on February 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
It's worth pointing out that the town where Davis comes from -- Central Falls, Rhode Island -- is very small (one square mile) and very poor. The town declared bankruptcy a decade ago and came through it in a year, but it's just so small that they don't have enough business for a decent tax base.
Davis has visited the schools there and I believe given some money to them, but the community really struggles still. Without making her some kind of hero, I hope she can leverage her fame to bring something good to the community.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:08 AM on February 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
Great for her! The two facts I know about EGOT date from the first time I knew it was a thing, back when Rita Moreno was the only one I knew about -
1) That Rita Moreno was the third person to receive one, and
2) She got her Emmy at least in part for this seminal performance of singing Fever with Animal.
posted by Mchelly at 7:12 AM on February 6, 2023 [15 favorites]
1) That Rita Moreno was the third person to receive one, and
2) She got her Emmy at least in part for this seminal performance of singing Fever with Animal.
posted by Mchelly at 7:12 AM on February 6, 2023 [15 favorites]
"Grammy awards for audiobook narration feel like more an inclusion on a technicality to me."
No. Audiobook narration is a real skill. I've had good narrators for my work and I had... less good narrators. The good narrators can break your heart or make you laugh until you cry. Less good narrators can make the words go "thud" in your ears. In a very real sense, audio narration is translation, and it is, always, a performance.
The audiobook world has its own professional awards (the Audies), but the fact that the Grammys recognize them as well seems entirely reasonable to me. The people making audiobooks are professionals working at the top of their game, and they deserve to be celebrated by the wider industry as such.
posted by jscalzi at 7:25 AM on February 6, 2023 [28 favorites]
No. Audiobook narration is a real skill. I've had good narrators for my work and I had... less good narrators. The good narrators can break your heart or make you laugh until you cry. Less good narrators can make the words go "thud" in your ears. In a very real sense, audio narration is translation, and it is, always, a performance.
The audiobook world has its own professional awards (the Audies), but the fact that the Grammys recognize them as well seems entirely reasonable to me. The people making audiobooks are professionals working at the top of their game, and they deserve to be celebrated by the wider industry as such.
posted by jscalzi at 7:25 AM on February 6, 2023 [28 favorites]
Davis is the first person to get the EGOT strictly for performing either since Audrey Hepburn in 1993 -- if you're willing to count her hosting PBS a documentary about gardens, a juried award for which there were no other nominations -- or since John Gielgud in 1991 -- if you're willing to count a collective Tony for "Best Foreign Company" -- or since Helen Hayes in 1977, who unquestionably won all four as a performer in her own right. Which means that Viola Davis is the first actor to act her way to an EGOT since the first time anyone said the word EGOT.
Yes, as much as I admire Whoopi and JHud, winning a Tony for all composing is cooler than winning for producing, and winning for all performing, cooler or not, is way rarer.
Also not all the composers won for just composing. ALW's Emmy is for producing, for instance.
Also I fell into a wikipedia hole and Alan Menken won a special Emmy award for a song from Cartoon All-Stars to the Rescue!! LOL
posted by lampoil at 7:58 AM on February 6, 2023
Yes, as much as I admire Whoopi and JHud, winning a Tony for all composing is cooler than winning for producing, and winning for all performing, cooler or not, is way rarer.
Also not all the composers won for just composing. ALW's Emmy is for producing, for instance.
Also I fell into a wikipedia hole and Alan Menken won a special Emmy award for a song from Cartoon All-Stars to the Rescue!! LOL
posted by lampoil at 7:58 AM on February 6, 2023
How come it's EGOT? Why can't it be GOTE?
posted by Melismata at 8:42 AM on February 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 8:42 AM on February 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
I don't understand the need for an asterisk on EGOT. Do they have one or more of each of the awards? Yes? Then they're in the club. I have a friend who has an Emmy award for his work on an animated feature. Having the trophy is cool, and distinguished. He laughs about it, but I can forever refer to him as my "Emmy Award-winning friend."
If they have the hardware, they qualify. 18 is a pretty small number.
posted by Chuffy at 8:48 AM on February 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
If they have the hardware, they qualify. 18 is a pretty small number.
posted by Chuffy at 8:48 AM on February 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
Fun to watch her steal the scene for a bit in Out of Sight. She wasn't as well known, back then, but no small roles, etc.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:07 AM on February 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:07 AM on February 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
The audiobook world has its own professional awards (the Audies), but the fact that the Grammys recognize them as well seems entirely reasonable to me. The people making audiobooks are professionals working at the top of their game, and they deserve to be celebrated by the wider industry as such.
You have to admit, though, that the people who win the Grammy in this category are not professional audiobook narrators or people who are otherwise lacking for celebration by the wider industry.
posted by Etrigan at 9:17 AM on February 6, 2023
You have to admit, though, that the people who win the Grammy in this category are not professional audiobook narrators or people who are otherwise lacking for celebration by the wider industry.
posted by Etrigan at 9:17 AM on February 6, 2023
How come it's EGOT?
As with so many injustices in the world, we can blame this one on Philip Michael Thomas.
posted by box at 10:02 AM on February 6, 2023
As with so many injustices in the world, we can blame this one on Philip Michael Thomas.
posted by box at 10:02 AM on February 6, 2023
Melismata YES! Awed as I am by anyone achieving EGOT status the ugliness of the abbreviation is distracting. I'd go further though, and say one of the awards has to change its name, probably the Grammy because of its high-scoring initial. Since Grammy is suggestive of gramophone, I suggest renaming them the Victrola awards, so we get VOTE.
posted by BCMagee at 10:03 AM on February 6, 2023
posted by BCMagee at 10:03 AM on February 6, 2023
Lin-Manuel Miranda is still just an O away from a MacPEGOT.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 10:10 AM on February 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by 1970s Antihero at 10:10 AM on February 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
No. Audiobook narration is a real skill.
This isn't the bit I'm contesting, it being awarded in the Grammys specifically is the bit I find something of a stretch. It is certainly skilled performance, because it is acting, which isn't what Grammys are otherwise awarded for.
posted by Dysk at 10:12 AM on February 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
This isn't the bit I'm contesting, it being awarded in the Grammys specifically is the bit I find something of a stretch. It is certainly skilled performance, because it is acting, which isn't what Grammys are otherwise awarded for.
posted by Dysk at 10:12 AM on February 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
I just think they'd be a better fit in either an acting or book awards show, basically.
posted by Dysk at 10:14 AM on February 6, 2023
posted by Dysk at 10:14 AM on February 6, 2023
Congrats!
But I would be more impressed with a wider spread of award categories?
Like I want someone to get bragged about because they've won an AACTA, a Juno, the Fields Medal, and Olympic bronze in the Winter Biathlon.
posted by bartleby at 10:33 AM on February 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
But I would be more impressed with a wider spread of award categories?
Like I want someone to get bragged about because they've won an AACTA, a Juno, the Fields Medal, and Olympic bronze in the Winter Biathlon.
posted by bartleby at 10:33 AM on February 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Do any of these people also have an Erdős number? If so, perhaps they could be listed as an EGŐT.
posted by automatronic at 10:34 AM on February 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by automatronic at 10:34 AM on February 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
I just think they'd be a better fit in either an acting or book awards show
You make a good point, but how else are the Grammys going to get people like the Clintons, the Obamas, Sidney Poitier, and Maya Angelou (okay, bad example) to show up to their awards show?
posted by box at 10:36 AM on February 6, 2023
You make a good point, but how else are the Grammys going to get people like the Clintons, the Obamas, Sidney Poitier, and Maya Angelou (okay, bad example) to show up to their awards show?
posted by box at 10:36 AM on February 6, 2023
"You have to admit, though, that the people who win the Grammy in this category are not professional audiobook narrators or people who are otherwise lacking for celebration by the wider industry."
If you want to ding a Grammy for celebrating the already celebrated, you will have to cast that net much wider than simply the audiobook category, I'm afraid. I would agree that the winners and nominees don't tend to be rank and file audiobook narrators. That doesn't mean they aren't giving very good audio performances, worthy of note (and, uh, awards).
"This isn't the bit I'm contesting, it being awarded in the Grammys specifically is the bit I find something of a stretch. It is certainly skilled performance, because it is acting, which isn't what Grammys are otherwise awarded for."
Singers don't act when they perform? This is news to me! Also, you are now calling into question the Best Musical Theatre Grammy, the albums there performed as they are by actors, who are to a lesser or greater degree capturing their stage acting performances in audio form.
Grammys are primarily about music, but they have several categories that encompass the wider audio world, which is why there are Grammys for comedy, spoken word poetry, boxed/limited edition packaging and (my favorite!) album notes. Moreover, spoken word, comedy, and packaging/note categories were part of the original Grammy lineup back in 1959. The recording industry appears to think these categories are valid for Grammy consideration. The people who win these Grammys are no less Grammy winners than those who win record or album of the year.
posted by jscalzi at 10:36 AM on February 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
If you want to ding a Grammy for celebrating the already celebrated, you will have to cast that net much wider than simply the audiobook category, I'm afraid. I would agree that the winners and nominees don't tend to be rank and file audiobook narrators. That doesn't mean they aren't giving very good audio performances, worthy of note (and, uh, awards).
"This isn't the bit I'm contesting, it being awarded in the Grammys specifically is the bit I find something of a stretch. It is certainly skilled performance, because it is acting, which isn't what Grammys are otherwise awarded for."
Singers don't act when they perform? This is news to me! Also, you are now calling into question the Best Musical Theatre Grammy, the albums there performed as they are by actors, who are to a lesser or greater degree capturing their stage acting performances in audio form.
Grammys are primarily about music, but they have several categories that encompass the wider audio world, which is why there are Grammys for comedy, spoken word poetry, boxed/limited edition packaging and (my favorite!) album notes. Moreover, spoken word, comedy, and packaging/note categories were part of the original Grammy lineup back in 1959. The recording industry appears to think these categories are valid for Grammy consideration. The people who win these Grammys are no less Grammy winners than those who win record or album of the year.
posted by jscalzi at 10:36 AM on February 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
Yeah, there is a fair argument for it, I just think the spoken word and comedy stuff are the outliers for not getting concerned with music. All the technical categories, even the liner notes stuff, is about music production and commercialisation. And while I don't deny that some form of acting is a huge part of a lot of music performance (including obviously music theater) they still share music as a unifying feature with the non-performance categories. So, and this is just my opinion, I do think the comedy and spoken word categories would fit more naturally into other awards. Not because I think they're lesser, not because I don't think they're worthy, just because I'm a nerd about categorising stuff, and I think they relate more closely to other kinds of acting or non-music stage performance.
posted by Dysk at 11:29 AM on February 6, 2023
posted by Dysk at 11:29 AM on February 6, 2023
But I would be more impressed with a wider spread of award categories?
Like I want someone to get bragged about because they've won an AACTA, a Juno, the Fields Medal, and Olympic bronze in the Winter Biathlon.
posted by bartleby at 10:33 AM on February 6 [+] [!]
Paul Robeson won an posthumous honorary Grammy, a Donaldson Award (a predecessor, of sorts, to the Tony) and is in the College Football Hall of Fame. Bob Dylan and George Bernard Shaw are the only two people who won an Oscar and a Nobel Prize.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 11:41 AM on February 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
Like I want someone to get bragged about because they've won an AACTA, a Juno, the Fields Medal, and Olympic bronze in the Winter Biathlon.
posted by bartleby at 10:33 AM on February 6 [+] [!]
Paul Robeson won an posthumous honorary Grammy, a Donaldson Award (a predecessor, of sorts, to the Tony) and is in the College Football Hall of Fame. Bob Dylan and George Bernard Shaw are the only two people who won an Oscar and a Nobel Prize.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 11:41 AM on February 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
It seems to me that the gramophone’s importance has less to do with music than for playing back *recordings*. If it can be recorded and then replayed on a gramophone, then it’s eligible for a Grammy.
posted by malthusan at 11:42 AM on February 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by malthusan at 11:42 AM on February 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
This goes way back to when MTV had some cultural relevance; and I also know little about music awards.
But I wonder if there's an audio version of what they did when they first began the MTV Movie Awards.
To highlight that this show was about mooovies, not ci-ne-ma.
Instead of the usual Oscar-bait incentivization, they gave out awards for Best Kiss, Best Fight, Most Frightened Performance in a Thriller, etc.
Would there be an audience for a Grammys-like awards for Sickest Beat, Most Earwormy, Best Lyrical Flow, Male Artist Most Likely to Get Your Mom to Fan Herself, etc.
The TikTok Viral Sample Dance Awards or something.
posted by bartleby at 12:32 PM on February 6, 2023
But I wonder if there's an audio version of what they did when they first began the MTV Movie Awards.
To highlight that this show was about mooovies, not ci-ne-ma.
Instead of the usual Oscar-bait incentivization, they gave out awards for Best Kiss, Best Fight, Most Frightened Performance in a Thriller, etc.
Would there be an audience for a Grammys-like awards for Sickest Beat, Most Earwormy, Best Lyrical Flow, Male Artist Most Likely to Get Your Mom to Fan Herself, etc.
The TikTok Viral Sample Dance Awards or something.
posted by bartleby at 12:32 PM on February 6, 2023
If it can be recorded and then replayed on a gramophone, then it’s eligible for a Grammy.
I thought the gramophone business had really slowed down of late.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:24 PM on February 6, 2023
I thought the gramophone business had really slowed down of late.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:24 PM on February 6, 2023
Not saying I'm happy this product exists, but it does.
(In other news, somebody's doing 8-track reissues now.)
posted by box at 1:43 PM on February 6, 2023
(In other news, somebody's doing 8-track reissues now.)
posted by box at 1:43 PM on February 6, 2023
The thing you have to understand about the Grammys is: for any given definition of "should", the Grammys do not award anyone who should be. The whole thing is a black box of questionable decisions, from categories to nominations to winners. The Oscars might often have terrible taste but at least it's consistently terrible.
If someone manages to make a Grammy fall out of that process with their name on it, more power to them, I say. Lord knows having a great audio performance is not enough.
posted by Merus at 1:59 PM on February 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
If someone manages to make a Grammy fall out of that process with their name on it, more power to them, I say. Lord knows having a great audio performance is not enough.
posted by Merus at 1:59 PM on February 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
But I would be more impressed with a wider spread of award categories?
Like I want someone to get bragged about because they've won an AACTA, a Juno, the Fields Medal, and Olympic bronze in the Winter Biathlon.
posted by bartleby at 10:33 AM on February 6 [+] [!]
"Kamilah, of course, is the youngest person ever to graduate from Oxford University, she's a world-class painter, social activist, iconoclast, Olympic gold medalist for archery, a BAFTA Award-winner for her documentary on her Grammy Award-winning album, and the person voted 'Most Likely to be Banksy.'"
posted by nightcoast at 2:04 PM on February 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
Like I want someone to get bragged about because they've won an AACTA, a Juno, the Fields Medal, and Olympic bronze in the Winter Biathlon.
posted by bartleby at 10:33 AM on February 6 [+] [!]
"Kamilah, of course, is the youngest person ever to graduate from Oxford University, she's a world-class painter, social activist, iconoclast, Olympic gold medalist for archery, a BAFTA Award-winner for her documentary on her Grammy Award-winning album, and the person voted 'Most Likely to be Banksy.'"
posted by nightcoast at 2:04 PM on February 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
I love arguments about which categories or performing arts should get an asterisk, as if winning any major award wasn't an absurd amalgamation of popularity, luck, studio politics, ephemeral social trends and a small degree of artistic excellence.
Anyways, over 3 years Ken Jennings has obtained half an EGOT, and that's my favorite current partial EGOT.
posted by midmarch snowman at 2:54 PM on February 6, 2023
Anyways, over 3 years Ken Jennings has obtained half an EGOT, and that's my favorite current partial EGOT.
posted by midmarch snowman at 2:54 PM on February 6, 2023
But I would be more impressed with a wider spread of award categories?
Shoot me if Tom Brady is the first SANE winner
Superbowl
AFC Champion
NFC Champion
Emmy Award for broadcasting
posted by Chuffy at 4:23 PM on February 6, 2023
Shoot me if Tom Brady is the first SANE winner
Superbowl
AFC Champion
NFC Champion
Emmy Award for broadcasting
posted by Chuffy at 4:23 PM on February 6, 2023
Are any Fields Medalists also Olympic Medalists?
Harald Bohr won a silver medal in the Olympics for soccer. And his brother Niels has a Nobel Prize, but I don’t know if any one person that’s done both.
posted by nat at 6:23 PM on February 6, 2023
Harald Bohr won a silver medal in the Olympics for soccer. And his brother Niels has a Nobel Prize, but I don’t know if any one person that’s done both.
posted by nat at 6:23 PM on February 6, 2023
Update: one of today's crosswords did have Viola Davis as the latest award winner.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:30 PM on February 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:30 PM on February 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
(I suppose my objection to the audiobook Grammy is actually largely informed by the EGOT context - if the idea is for it to reflect a breath of achievement, in stage, TV, cinema, and music, then it doesn't. You can get it for acting, acting, acting, and voice acting. Which I suppose is no different to getting it for composing, composing, composing, and composing.)
posted by Dysk at 4:39 AM on February 7, 2023
posted by Dysk at 4:39 AM on February 7, 2023
the world has really gone for acronyms
posted by elkevelvet at 7:41 AM on February 7, 2023
posted by elkevelvet at 7:41 AM on February 7, 2023
You can’t reduce this to actors & audio books. Spoken word recordings are their own genre & the Grammys have issued awards for Best Spoken Word Recording (or equivalent) since 1959.
posted by jonp72 at 8:25 AM on February 7, 2023
posted by jonp72 at 8:25 AM on February 7, 2023
You can’t reduce this to actors & audio books. Spoken word recordings are their own genre & the Grammys have issued awards for Best Spoken Word Recording (or equivalent) since 1959.
Sure, but in this century that's nearly a quarter over, there's one Grammy winner in this category who isn't "actor(s) or politician reading a book", and it was Maya Angelou reading a book.
posted by Etrigan at 9:05 AM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Sure, but in this century that's nearly a quarter over, there's one Grammy winner in this category who isn't "actor(s) or politician reading a book", and it was Maya Angelou reading a book.
posted by Etrigan at 9:05 AM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
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