"People don’t interfere in your life": Taliban on new lives in Kabul

February 8, 2023 5:46 AM

The traffic is terrible, the rents are high and what do you mean I have to sit at a desk from 8am to 4pm? Former Taliban fighters working for the government in Kabul have complaints that seem like those any rural soldier going to work in the big city after a war might have. They also cite similar benefits: everything from hospitals to shops to parks is accessible and people don't meddle in your life. But other joys and complaints are unique - and some reveal how the West lost the war for Afghanistan.
posted by rednikki (54 comments total)

Now do an interview asking WOMEN in Kabul what things are like for them.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:05 AM on February 8, 2023 [47 favorites]

Now do an interview asking WOMEN in Kabul what things are like for them.

Anyone who wants, DM me and I will send the writings of my "sister" in a small town, whose life has been getting smaller and more depressing over the last year. Her job as an NGO worker used to feed her extended family, now she is confined to her home without a mahram.

Now let's read the article about how the new Germans are adjusting to life ruling the General Government. Must be really different for them!
posted by Meatbomb at 6:34 AM on February 8, 2023 [13 favorites]

Afghan Analysts Network has an entire section on what is happening to women in Afghanistan. It's one click away from this article.
posted by rednikki at 6:43 AM on February 8, 2023 [8 favorites]

Afghan Analysts Network has an entire section on what is happening to women in Afghanistan.

I'd rather have read an FPP about that, to be honest.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:49 AM on February 8, 2023 [5 favorites]

I'd rather have read an FPP about that, to be honest.

Then perhaps you should post it?
posted by sid at 6:52 AM on February 8, 2023 [40 favorites]

One thing that struck me was the sense of uncertainty and anxiety these men have with regard to sorting out Good People from Bad People in their new environment.

This quote was illuminating:

"In the time of jihad, life was very simple. All we had to deal with was making plans for ta’aruz [attacks] against the enemy and for retreating. People didn’t expect much from us, and we had little responsibility towards them, whereas now if someone is hungry, he deems us directly responsible for that."
posted by cubeb at 7:04 AM on February 8, 2023 [16 favorites]

As a woman, I know very well that it matters more that women are suffering in Afghanistan. But I'm also interested in these sulky bastards finding out they don't like their new lives, for the same reason eviemath mentions.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:10 AM on February 8, 2023 [24 favorites]

I think this is a useful article. I got a real sense of what motivated Taliban fighters. They are mediocrities and unread clowns who just want to live in world where they are big heroes who can "ride horses and feel blessed" and not worry about how to keep the lights on.

There is a stunning lack of humility, vision, planning, discipline, and truly anything you need to build a country or even to lead a vaguely organized adult life.

Soon, we will see this guy and his colleagues trying to "seek asylum" in Europe. And if they succeed, they'll bring their version of Islam there.
posted by Didnt_do_enough at 7:11 AM on February 8, 2023 [12 favorites]

The interviewees come across as sullen teenagers cheezed off their parents are making them get jobs. They used to live a life of relative plenty with no responsibility and are now having to work for a living.

Many mujahedin, including me, are addicted to the internet, especially Twitter.

Now I want to know whether Elon's shitshow is destabilizing the Afgani government.
posted by Mitheral at 7:19 AM on February 8, 2023 [11 favorites]

> They are mediocrities and unread clowns who just want to live in world where they are big heroes who can "ride horses and feel blessed" and not worry about how to keep the lights on.

There is a stunning lack of humility, vision, planning, discipline, and truly anything you need to build a country or even to lead a vaguely organized adult life.

Yeah, conservatives are the same everywhere.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:21 AM on February 8, 2023 [34 favorites]

But I'm also interested in these sulky bastards finding out they don't like their new lives, for the same reason eviemath mentions.

That's a fair point.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:23 AM on February 8, 2023 [3 favorites]

They got what they wanted and hey, guess what, they actually have to run a country like real adults. We (the Wes)t shouldn’t have been there, but otherwise, no sympathy here. Time to walk away someone sane (and preferably, Afghani) kicks them to the curb.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 7:26 AM on February 8, 2023 [2 favorites]

Thanks for posting this. I'm not at all surprised, but I like to know rather than guess.

I'm reminded a bit of Barbara Tuchman's A Distant Mirror, where she points out that Europe in the 14th century was mostly ruled by very young people with a limited and very religious education and a love of violence. Today we heroize their courtly manners, but in real life we know that most people's brains aren't fully developed before the age of 24, and that lack of education amplifies the problematic natural properties of teen brains.

In a way it is hilarious as well as terrifying. Did all of them really complain that they have to go to work on time?

Anyway, one more contemporary comparison is the kids the Bush administration sent to Iraq, with tons of dollars on pallets. They were a wee bit better educated, so not as universally violent and ignorant, but in terms of actually governing a country they were at about the same level of competence.
posted by mumimor at 7:38 AM on February 8, 2023 [10 favorites]

I think it's worthwhile to learn that even the worst people are still human beings. And, while I haven't read the whole thing yet, it was interesting to see the one who thought people treated each other better in the city than in the small town he came from.

muminor: "They were a wee bit better educated, so not as universally violent and ignorant". I'm pretty sure education doesn't make a huge difference, it's more a matter of default behavior in a culture.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 8:24 AM on February 8, 2023 [3 favorites]

This was fascinating.

Some of the details that I found noteworthy:

the guy who keeps going to a class even though there's a woman among the other students, and theft and traffic as annoyances -- which indicate that locals do not instantly defer to these ex-fighters' wishes out of fear of violence (if so, then the ex-fighters could instantly wield a weapon to get through traffic jams, no one would try to rob them, and the woman in the class would leave before the guy explicitly raised an objection)

the experience of running into more status and hierarchy obstacles among people who used to be more accessible

"During the first days when women approached us, many mujahedin, including myself, were hiding from them because never in our whole lives have we talked to strange women. In the days that followed, the head of the hawza instructed us that sharia does allow us to talk to them because we are now the authorities and the only people that can solve their problems."

"Furthermore, when sometimes I want to come from home to Kabul, for example, and I don’t have a vehicle to go with, I come to the nearby road so a passer-by could pick me up and drive me to Kandahar. But once an old man with his old Corolla stopped, I thought he did so to pick me up, but he didn’t. Rather, he mockingly told me that now the entire government is in your hands, so you no longer deserve help, adding that now it’s your turn to pay back all the help we have given you."
posted by brainwane at 8:33 AM on February 8, 2023 [21 favorites]

Soon, we will see this guy and his colleagues trying to "seek asylum" in Europe. And if they succeed, they'll bring their version of Islam there.

Well, that's not where I would go from this article.
posted by away for regrooving at 8:34 AM on February 8, 2023 [15 favorites]

And if they succeed, they'll bring their version of Islam there.
Leaving aside the islamophobic and anti-refugee not-so-subtext here, I think there's too little discussion on the west's role in encouraging violent radicalization, by funneling arms to the mujahedeen during the cold war, and by turning a blind eye as Saudi Arabia exported their extreme sect of Islam throughout the world. And, of course, by causing violent instability through imperialist actions that cause desperate people to turn to radical ideologies.
posted by sid at 8:51 AM on February 8, 2023 [17 favorites]

I found this really interesting -- thanks for posting it, rednikki. For those interested in interviews with Afghan women, there are several good ones on the same site, including (but not limited to) these:
- One young woman's journey to an English course in Kabul
- How Afghan women working for NGOs are coping with the Taleban ban
- Strangers in Our Own Country: How Afghan women cope with life under the Islamic Emirate

Although I very, very, very much disagree with everything these men fought for, I found them very human, and very familiar. I was reminded of the book War is a Force that Gives Us Meaning, by a former war correspondent who describes how war can become an addictive high for those involved in it, rendering everything else pale and colorless by comparison. I am reminded of vets I know who have come home at complete loose ends, who have to work very hard to assemble a life that feels anything close to meaningful. I'm reminded of myself in times of intense crisis and chaos, and the feeling of emptiness that can come over me in the aftermath.

I'm hopeful that some of the interviewees described gaining new perspectives as they interacted with women and unfamiliar people. I'm concerned that some of them described hardening their views in the face of the same experiences. The future is still being decided -- it's not written yet, and I don't think it's possible (or advisable) to write these people off.
posted by ourobouros at 9:37 AM on February 8, 2023 [16 favorites]

So many of these guys joined when they were teenagers - child soldiers. In an alternate universe, they might have just been dumbass redditors. I hope that with peace, time and broader experiences they mellow out.
posted by airmail at 10:03 AM on February 8, 2023 [4 favorites]

Now let's read the article about how the new Germans are adjusting to life ruling the General Government. Must be really different for them!

Equating the Taliban with Nazis, I don't think that's particularly useful. By equating Taliban with Nazis, you're basically saying "the solution to the problem they represent is their extermination." Which, whatever moral arguments you might wish to make about that, it has the weakness as a policy that it has been tried and it comprehensively failed. Or rather, to be Scrupulously Fair, a prerequisite for it was tried, namely the conquest of and imposition of a stable government upon the territory of Afghanistan. Since it proved impossible to accomplish that, nobody is going to be exterminating the Taliban any time soon.

Also, whatever you want to say about the Taliban and their treatment of women, they absolutely are not building factories to turn women into ashes on an industrial scale. So please fuck all the way off with Nazi comparisons.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 10:32 AM on February 8, 2023 [6 favorites]

From my sister I have direct reports of the genocide of Hazaras at the hands of the Taliban. Their beliefs are counter to modern standards of human rights, and in a just world they would not be allowed to govern.

Sorry, I have too many friends and colleagues in Afghanistan, as well as many who managed to flee, to be willing to pretend this regime deserves a chance. They have already shown their true colours.
posted by Meatbomb at 10:38 AM on February 8, 2023 [14 favorites]

The US spent 20 years, 3,502 coalition casualties, 20,752 US wounded and trillions of dollars. The goal was pretty much revenge, difficult to define, with a hidden agenda of oil. Afghanistan is still producing lots of heroin, life in Afghanistan is still extremely restricted by their religious authoritarian repressive government. It's illegal to be gay, very difficult to be non-Muslim, alcohol is banned, punishments for many offenses are extremely violent, including death. The treatment of women and girls is abhorrent. Human Rights is not a valid concept. Religious fundamentalism has been a cause of war for centuries, and the practice of Islamic fundamentalism in Afghanistan is repulsive and indefensible.

It's personal for me, my son spent a year in Kandahar, and came home, but changed. Most of the US stopped paying attention to the war when we got out of Iraq; Afghanistan was kind of an afterthought. It should never have been started, and should have been ended long ago. Did we get out the best possible way? Probably not, but we got the fuck out, Thanks, Biden. We had 20 years to try to accomplish something. A lot of wells, schools, buildings, etc., could have been accomplished peacefully.

I know a number of people who have fought in active war zones, all men, and if they let down their guard, many of them will tell you that it's exciting, there's a sense of mission, and that those friendships and experiences are profound. They don't want to go back, generally, it really is horrible and traumatizing. The Talib fighters hung around with men, formed bonds, had a really strong sense of religious mission, had a sense of power and control; they miss that.

As long as they sit on oil, and as long as we depend on oil, Afghanistan won't be allowed to find a path to self-governance. The US, Russia, Europe, probably China and whoever else, have flooded Afghanistan and the Middle East with weapons for years. After however many generations of war, how do you learn a different way?
posted by theora55 at 10:57 AM on February 8, 2023 [3 favorites]

"[Living in Kabul] also has a positive feature: unlike the village, no one bothers you about what you do, what you wear, who comes to your home and who leaves it. People don’t interfere in your life and don’t talk about you behind your back."

So close, and yet...
posted by 4rtemis at 11:08 AM on February 8, 2023 [6 favorites]

The PBS NewsHour has not forgotten about Afghanistan, with regular reporting pieces (this one is from Monday):

Women in Afghanistan find ways to make their voices heard under Taliban oppression.
posted by JDC8 at 11:11 AM on February 8, 2023 [6 favorites]

Sorry, I have too many friends and colleagues in Afghanistan, as well as many who managed to flee, to be willing to pretend this regime deserves a chance. They have already shown their true colours.

I find the ideology that the Taliban supports abhorrent, and I don't think it should or will have a future long term, and I think the victims of the regime deserve far more understanding, sympathy, and resources than the Taliban itself.

I also don't think there's anyone who's arguing that the Taliban as a regime should be rehabilitated. I think this FFP is more about having some understanding of individual fighters whose circumstances, motivation, and actions can vary quite a bit, and whose worldview we likely can't conceive of as we are, for the most part, outsiders.


by equating Taliban with Nazis, you're basically saying "the solution to the problem they represent is their extermination."

But not all Nazis were exterminated? Some were executed, many were rehabilitated, many faced no consequences because they were important to the successor regime, or had very little investment or participation in the party they ostensibly supported. The Nazi party had over a million members, it would have been nigh-impossible to 'exterminate' all of them.
posted by sid at 11:13 AM on February 8, 2023 [4 favorites]

They sound exactly like all my small town relatives talking about NYC and Los Angeles, with the same petty complaints of US cities [traffic, thieves, lack of community ties]. It's kind of weird none seem to have issue with PTSD or anything (maybe the drone comments?), they are all pretty sad they are no longer soldiers with the war infrastructure support and now have to pay attention to their families and wives.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:54 AM on February 8, 2023 [1 favorite]

The US spent 20 years, 3,502 coalition casualties, 20,752 US wounded and trillions of dollars. The goal was pretty much revenge, difficult to define, with a hidden agenda of oil

There’s no oil in Afghanistan.
posted by Galvanic at 1:44 PM on February 8, 2023 [5 favorites]

As long as they sit on oil, and as long as we depend on oil, Afghanistan won't be allowed to find a path to self-governance.

Great comment, but there’s no* significant oil production in Afghanistan, and there hasn’t been for a long time.

There was some fantasy-level reporting about trillions in resources in Afghanistan around 2010, similar to reports from the 60s/70s about Vietnam’s untapped resources. What resources actually exist, there’s largely no economic way to extract them. The total pie in the sky theoretical oil reserves in Afghanistan are 1/30th of the US’s proven reserves (and 1/200th of Saudi reserves.) There were similar reports from the 60s/70s of Vietnam’s untapped resources.

Much of America’s foreign policy is dictated by Imperial resource exploitation, but Afghanistan was even stupider.

* A Chinese company recently signed a small development deal, but even optimistically it isn’t going to ever produce more than what the US spent in a month on fuel for AC in Iraq/Afghanistan.
posted by theclaw at 2:09 PM on February 8, 2023 [5 favorites]

The oil/gas thing in Afghanistan is about a pipeline from Tadjikistan through Afghanistan to Pakistan, not actual ressources in Afghanistan. As far as I know, there are still negotiations going on about it.
I don't believe that pipeline motivated the war. I'm old enough to remember how shocked and angry people were after 9/11, and how the US, but also its allies felt a need to DO SOMETHING. Afghanistan was harboring Bin Laden, and the Taliban were horrible people. It seemed like a simple, weak and hence good target. Pakistan and Saudi Arabia would have made more sense since they were very much in control of the situation in Afghanistan and also financial supporters of al Qaeda, but they are US allies. Whatever that means.
posted by mumimor at 2:47 PM on February 8, 2023 [1 favorite]

Tajikistan has minimal oil as well.
posted by Galvanic at 3:05 PM on February 8, 2023

Afghanistan is resource-rich, with uranium and a huge deposit of untapped lithium; "Afghanistan does sit atop huge deposits of copper, iron, marble, talc, coal, lithium, chromite, cobalt, gold, lapis lazuli, gemstones, and more—making Afghanistan one of the world’s most resource-rich countries on paper." (https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/11/afghanistan-taliban-mining-resources-rich-minerals/#:~:text=Afghanistan%20does%20sit%20atop%20huge,resource%2Drich%20countries%20on%20paper.) Not to mention its strategic location. Note that Russia invaded Ukraine just a few months after the US withdrawal from Afghanistan.
posted by erattacorrige at 3:24 PM on February 8, 2023

Afghanistan is resource-rich

Wow, yeah, how much did the US pillage in the 20 years we were ther?
posted by Galvanic at 3:31 PM on February 8, 2023

Tajikistan has minimal oil as well.

Sorry, I was confusing the -stans, it is Turkmenistan. But again. I don't think the pipeline was a major issue ever. I think it was a political thing about doing something in a. confusing and desperate time, where the actual perpetrators were deemed out of reach.
Afghanistan was chosen as the scapegoat because it was powerless and also had a despicable government, since the US government was not inclined to confront Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
posted by mumimor at 3:41 PM on February 8, 2023

> Note that Russia invaded Ukraine just a few months after the US withdrawal from Afghanistan.

I remember murmurs interpreting this the other way around: as Russia led up to the invasion of the Ukraine with the US intelligence community broadcasting their every move before they made it, Biden pulled troops from Afghanistan to make sure they were available.

I don't know which, if either, causation is correct.
posted by madhadron at 3:48 PM on February 8, 2023

I wanted to laugh SO HARD at "now we have to work from 8-4! You have to go there and stay there! Every day! If you don't go, you don't get paid!" and "I have to sit in front of a computer all day!" And finally, "In our ministry, there’s little work for me to do. Therefore, I spend most of my time on Twitter. We’re connected to speedy Wi-Fi and internet. Many mujahedin, including me, are addicted to the internet, especially Twitter."

Taleban men sounding like US dudes, just...the mind boggles.

(P.S. Why TalEban and not Tal-I-ban? When was that a thing that changed?)
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:56 PM on February 8, 2023

(P.S. Why TalEban and not Tal-I-ban? When was that a thing that changed?)

Just different transliterations I believe? Perhaps related to whether it's transliterated from Dari or Pashto? Similar to Zelensky vs Zelenskyy.
posted by sid at 6:12 AM on February 9, 2023

Afghanistan was chosen as the scapegoat because it was powerless and also had a despicable government

Afghanistan was chosen because Bin Laden, who had just killed 3000 Americans, was hiding there and the Taliban wouldn’t give him up.
posted by Galvanic at 6:20 AM on February 9, 2023 [2 favorites]

the Taliban wouldn't give him up

Uhhhh not true, "The United States today rejected yet another offer by Afghanistan's ruling Taliban to turn over Osama bin Laden for trial in a third country if the U.S. presents evidence against bin Laden and stops air attacks."
posted by erattacorrige at 1:20 PM on February 9, 2023 [3 favorites]

Sending him to a third country is not “giving him up”
posted by Galvanic at 2:22 PM on February 9, 2023 [2 favorites]

The purpose of sending him to a third country was for a diplomatic hand-off, kind of like meeting your toxic ex at a neutral site to transfer a child that is being coparented, and the point is: the Taliban offered on several occasions to "hand off" bin laden to the US, and we refused, costing us trillions of dollars and thousands of lives, not to mention what it cost Afghanistan
posted by erattacorrige at 3:10 PM on February 9, 2023 [1 favorite]

The purpose of offering to send him to a third country while attaching lots of other conditions was a way to appear reasonable while not, in fact, giving up Bin Laden.

The straightforward way to do it was to give up Bin Laden to the United States, rather than trying to get clever. Most of the Taliban leadership who tried to get clever paid for it with their lives and doomed hundreds of thousands of their fellow Afghans to a similar fate.
posted by Galvanic at 6:51 PM on February 9, 2023 [2 favorites]

It is complicated.

First of all, Bin Laden was found and killed in Pakistan, and as I understand it, he was traveling between Afghanistan and Pakistan already back in 2001, and Pakistani intelligence knew were he was and supported him at all times.

Second, and this it where it becomes difficult. My own democratic and western country will not hand over criminals to countries where the relevant punishments are deemed cruel and inhuman, and here, the death sentence is not accepted. So my government would not have handed over Bin Laden to the US government (well, the right-wing government we had then probably would have figured out a way to do it, but it wouldn't be legal). Now obviously the Taliban had different motivations for not handing over Bin Laden, and all the other terrorists, but a big part of me is kind of particular about the rights of nations and their autonomy. I wasn't against the invasion of Afghanistan, but it did give me some worries, and I certainly felt that all the propaganda surrounding the invasion reeked of post-justification (is that a thing?).

I don't know what to do about something like the Taliban. Obviously bombing the shit out of them didn't work. Someone I know has written a PhD about the problems with corruption and how to deal with them, and I guess someone should have studied that before invading Afganistan, because a huge reason for the popular support for Taliban is the widespread corruption in the country, which was not only tolerated, but actually exacerbated by the occupying forces. Maybe our best hope is that Taliban are corrupted ASAP, so the population looses trust in them.

Iraq was another thing, that was just bad.
posted by mumimor at 6:40 AM on February 10, 2023 [6 favorites]

muminor, how do you think it would have gone down if Bin Laden had been imprisoned for life in your country, or some other reliable country that wouldn't execute him?
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 6:58 AM on February 10, 2023

What’s a “reliable country”?
posted by Ahmad Khani at 7:21 AM on February 10, 2023

muminor, how do you think it would have gone down if Bin Laden had been imprisoned for life in your country, or some other reliable country that wouldn't execute him?

Well, it's hard to know. The Breivik person is in prison in Norway and even had a hearing because he complained about something, and I think the effect is that he is shown as a weak and shallow person. He still inspires terrorists, I think, but not to the same extent as if he had been a martyr.

With Bin Laden in life prison here, he would certainly be diminished as a powerful symbol, but he would probably also be able to influence individuals.

Generally, it can be shown that countries without capital punishment have less violence and crime that those with capital punishment, but there are so many other factors in play that I don't think there are direct correlations.

I'm not perfect. I'm very much against capital punishment, but I did not mind the assassination of Bin Laden. Some of my more righteous friends did.
posted by mumimor at 7:30 AM on February 10, 2023 [3 favorites]

I see pushback against "Taliban are not Nazis," with various remarks that don't show that the Taliban are Nazis, or perverse-seeming inability to comprehend that there are states between "peachy keen to be friends with" and "Nazi," and if one thinks that the Taliban are not Nazis, then one must think they are peachy keen to be friends with.

I expect better of you people. You're not supposed to be the thoughtless ones who only can get through life on what they learned by the end of 6th grade, in terms of processing nuance, and who don't instinctively respond to every criticism by finding the closest straw man and setting it on fire.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 7:55 AM on February 10, 2023

I do not think we really need to fight about this. My initial comment was intended as an analogy, Nazis and Taliban are both big jerks and maybe we can agree on that?
posted by Meatbomb at 8:41 AM on February 10, 2023 [2 favorites]

It is complicated

I think we're talking past each other a bit. My initial point was that Afghanistan was invaded because they wouldn't hand over Bin Laden to the United States. He was based in Afghanistan at the time and only resettled in Pakistan when the US actually did invade. I'm not arguing about whether it was right or wrong or complicated that they didn't hand him over or how the US was acting, I'm just making the point that the reason for the American invasion was to go after Bin Laden, not out of some imperialist impulse or for oil/natural resources.

Expanding that point a bit, the US was not going to accept any situation where bin Laden was locked up in Afghanistan or some third party. It was Oct 2001 and there were still bodies being pulled out of the smoking crater where the twin towers had been. There was no compromise available.
posted by Galvanic at 9:55 AM on February 10, 2023

I think we're talking past each other a bit.

Probably, yes. And I do agree with your main points. The thing is that it would probably have made more sense to pressure Pakistan and Saudi Arabia at the time (if you wanted to prosecute or kill Bin Laden), but no-one wanted to do that.

The Taliban are terrible people, I'm not defending them. But if the aim was to extract and punish the terrorists who killed thousands of Americans 9/11, the invasion of Afghanistan was not the most effective action, and that invasion has cost thousands of innocent lives.
posted by mumimor at 10:08 AM on February 10, 2023 [1 favorite]

the invasion of Afghanistan was not the most effective action,

I have no idea how to evaluate that and neither do you. And I’m not being snarky. You’re comparing a world of options that didn’t happen with something that did. There’s no way to know what might have happened with all the counter factuals, so asserting something about them is useless.
posted by Galvanic at 3:02 PM on February 10, 2023

Now I want to know whether Elon's shitshow is destabilizing the Afgani government.

Afghan, surely. Afghani is currency.
posted by aspersioncast at 3:34 PM on February 10, 2023 [1 favorite]

The -i suffix means "of/from"

Afghani = of/from/in the style of Afghanistan

Kabuli = of/from/in the style of Kabul

Both the government and the currency can be called Afghani.
posted by wandering zinnia at 3:19 AM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]

"The other positive feature of Kabul is its ethnic diversity. You can see an Uzbek, Pashtun and a Tajik living in one building and going to the same mosque."

I did not expect a Taliban member to say that ethnic diversity is a positive
posted by wandering zinnia at 3:28 AM on February 11, 2023 [2 favorites]

I have no idea how to evaluate that and neither do you. And I’m not being snarky. You’re comparing a world of options that didn’t happen with something that did.

It's been a while, but I have been thinking, and I have to say that I was alive at the time, and my job sent me to places where I could get an idea of how to evaluate the decisions, and my impression was that at least some American officials at the time felt that way, which was how I came to my own opinion. Obviously, others disagreed. The government in my own country were idiots. to put it mildly.
posted by mumimor at 2:21 PM on February 21, 2023