Clarence Thomas And The Billionaire
April 6, 2023 4:27 AM Subscribe
A ProPublica news piece has just dropped examining the relationship between Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas and Texas Real Estate Developer Harlan Crow, and the frequent travel-related gifts Crow has showered on Thomas for 20 years - all of which Thomas has failed to disclose.
In a recent interview, Thomas presented a different picture of his travel habits: “I prefer the RV parks. I prefer the Walmart parking lots to the beaches and things like that. There’s something normal to me about it....I come from regular stock, and I prefer that — I prefer being around that.”
However, that interview was conducted for a documentary about Thomas' life which Crow is helping to produce. ProPublica journalists have uncovered a somewhat different picture: trips on Crow's superyacht, flights on Crow's private jet, visits to the longtime conservative enclave Bohemian Grove, and annual visits to Crow's private resort "Camp Topridge" in New York's Adirondacks - there's even a painting at Camp Topridge depicting Crow and Thomas sitting on the patio smoking cigars along with three other guests - among them, Federalist Society leader Leonard Leo, long suspected of being behind the attempt to shift the Supreme Court Society towards the right. Leo is another frequent guest of Crow's; Crow insists his guests don't talk shop while visiting him, at least so far as he knows.
Crow's largesse doesn't extend to travel - in 2011, ProPublica uncovered Crow's earlier donation to a lobbyist group founded by Thomas' wife Ginni. Crow has also given Thomas a $19,000 bible that belonged to Frederick Douglass and a portrait of the justice and his wife, and Crow's foundation also gave $105,000 to Yale Law School, Thomas’ alma mater, for the “Justice Thomas Portrait Fund.”
Thomas disclosed the bible as a gift, but has been less open with Crow's other gifts; the pair appear to have found something of an ethics loophole. Justices are required to publicly report all gifts worth more than $415, but if someone hosts a justice at their own property, free food and lodging don’t have to be disclosed. That would exempt dinner at a friend’s house. Crow regularly picks up the tab for his friends' trips, so technically there's no need for Thomas to have disclosed them.
However - the exemption never applied to transportation, such as private jet flights or yacht trips, and recently updated filing instructions for the judiciary to clarify this. So Thomas absolutely should have reported the nine-day Indonesian cruise he took with Crow on his yacht. He also should have reported the three-hour use of Crow's private jet in 2021, which flew him to a small cemetery in upstate New York .- where Thomas unveiled a monument devoted to his own eighth-grade teacher. The monument itself was also paid for by Harlan Crow.
....As of this writing (7:25 am, Eastern Time, on April 6 2023), this news has only been public for 2 hours and it is unclear precisely what the impact will be.
In a recent interview, Thomas presented a different picture of his travel habits: “I prefer the RV parks. I prefer the Walmart parking lots to the beaches and things like that. There’s something normal to me about it....I come from regular stock, and I prefer that — I prefer being around that.”
However, that interview was conducted for a documentary about Thomas' life which Crow is helping to produce. ProPublica journalists have uncovered a somewhat different picture: trips on Crow's superyacht, flights on Crow's private jet, visits to the longtime conservative enclave Bohemian Grove, and annual visits to Crow's private resort "Camp Topridge" in New York's Adirondacks - there's even a painting at Camp Topridge depicting Crow and Thomas sitting on the patio smoking cigars along with three other guests - among them, Federalist Society leader Leonard Leo, long suspected of being behind the attempt to shift the Supreme Court Society towards the right. Leo is another frequent guest of Crow's; Crow insists his guests don't talk shop while visiting him, at least so far as he knows.
Crow's largesse doesn't extend to travel - in 2011, ProPublica uncovered Crow's earlier donation to a lobbyist group founded by Thomas' wife Ginni. Crow has also given Thomas a $19,000 bible that belonged to Frederick Douglass and a portrait of the justice and his wife, and Crow's foundation also gave $105,000 to Yale Law School, Thomas’ alma mater, for the “Justice Thomas Portrait Fund.”
Thomas disclosed the bible as a gift, but has been less open with Crow's other gifts; the pair appear to have found something of an ethics loophole. Justices are required to publicly report all gifts worth more than $415, but if someone hosts a justice at their own property, free food and lodging don’t have to be disclosed. That would exempt dinner at a friend’s house. Crow regularly picks up the tab for his friends' trips, so technically there's no need for Thomas to have disclosed them.
However - the exemption never applied to transportation, such as private jet flights or yacht trips, and recently updated filing instructions for the judiciary to clarify this. So Thomas absolutely should have reported the nine-day Indonesian cruise he took with Crow on his yacht. He also should have reported the three-hour use of Crow's private jet in 2021, which flew him to a small cemetery in upstate New York .- where Thomas unveiled a monument devoted to his own eighth-grade teacher. The monument itself was also paid for by Harlan Crow.
....As of this writing (7:25 am, Eastern Time, on April 6 2023), this news has only been public for 2 hours and it is unclear precisely what the impact will be.
It isn’t illegal the Supreme Court says so. The Republican’s won’t impeach him.
posted by interogative mood at 4:40 AM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 4:40 AM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
I prefer the RV parks. I prefer the Walmart parking lots to the beaches
God what a smarmy fucking asshole. He's got a lifetime appointment with no accountability, so who the hell is he even pandering to? Himself?
posted by cubeb at 4:45 AM on April 6, 2023 [72 favorites]
God what a smarmy fucking asshole. He's got a lifetime appointment with no accountability, so who the hell is he even pandering to? Himself?
posted by cubeb at 4:45 AM on April 6, 2023 [72 favorites]
For a light entertaining recap of Clarence Thomas' pragmatic career, Behind the Bastards has a two (three?) part episode
posted by anthill at 4:56 AM on April 6, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by anthill at 4:56 AM on April 6, 2023 [13 favorites]
The Republican’s won’t impeach him.
Of course not, and this impunity has certainly led to corruption, but as John Roberts knows, SCOTUS is heavily dependent on public perception of its legitimacy. The more the judges' corruption becomes public, the less credibility the court has, and the less the public will give the judges the respect and deference they feel is their due.
posted by Gelatin at 4:57 AM on April 6, 2023 [27 favorites]
Of course not, and this impunity has certainly led to corruption, but as John Roberts knows, SCOTUS is heavily dependent on public perception of its legitimacy. The more the judges' corruption becomes public, the less credibility the court has, and the less the public will give the judges the respect and deference they feel is their due.
posted by Gelatin at 4:57 AM on April 6, 2023 [27 favorites]
The public doesn't have any faith in SCOTUS ' legitimacy. I'm not sure it ever has. Most Americans don't understand how their own legal works and don't understand what the Court's job is. If they did understand these things they'd have even less faith in the Supreme Court.
The most recent polling I find says that 25% of the American public expressed a positive opinion of the Supreme Court. That ship has already sailed.
posted by 1adam12 at 5:25 AM on April 6, 2023 [9 favorites]
The most recent polling I find says that 25% of the American public expressed a positive opinion of the Supreme Court. That ship has already sailed.
posted by 1adam12 at 5:25 AM on April 6, 2023 [9 favorites]
The incredible thing to me remains how cheap all this corruption is. A few tens of thousand dollars here and there, to undermine the entire legal process? Paying for a few lavish meals so it's off the books? Christ, that's nothing. That's shake-out-the-couch money for these guys.
At some point we're going to have to realize that low marginal tax rates and loopholes in the tax system are national security risks.
posted by mhoye at 5:26 AM on April 6, 2023 [96 favorites]
At some point we're going to have to realize that low marginal tax rates and loopholes in the tax system are national security risks.
posted by mhoye at 5:26 AM on April 6, 2023 [96 favorites]
Oooo! Less deference! That’ll show them!
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 5:42 AM on April 6, 2023 [22 favorites]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 5:42 AM on April 6, 2023 [22 favorites]
“I prefer the RV parks. I prefer the Walmart parking lots to the beaches and things like that. There’s something normal to me about it....I come from regular stock, and I prefer that — I prefer being around that.”
What a fucking hipster.
posted by gauche at 5:53 AM on April 6, 2023 [11 favorites]
What a fucking hipster.
posted by gauche at 5:53 AM on April 6, 2023 [11 favorites]
but as John Roberts knows, SCOTUS is heavily dependent on public perception of its legitimacy. The more the judges' corruption becomes public, the less credibility the court has, and the less the public will give the judges the respect and deference they feel is their due.
This is the Supreme Court version of Green Lantern Theory. The Court isn't going to magically disappear or become irrelevant once it's credibility dips below a certain threshold. Likewise, John Roberts isn't going to step up and reign in the conservative majority (which he is a part of!) because he's concerned about the Court's legitimacy or his own legacy.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:54 AM on April 6, 2023 [13 favorites]
This is the Supreme Court version of Green Lantern Theory. The Court isn't going to magically disappear or become irrelevant once it's credibility dips below a certain threshold. Likewise, John Roberts isn't going to step up and reign in the conservative majority (which he is a part of!) because he's concerned about the Court's legitimacy or his own legacy.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:54 AM on April 6, 2023 [13 favorites]
Oooo! Less deference! That’ll show them!
All sarcasm aside, have you seen how much it irritates them when they don't get the deference they think they deserve? They crave it, and denying it to them hurts.
Besides, we've already established that the Republicans will go to bat for their SCOTUS judges (and presidents) no matter how openly corrupt, so impeachment is out. I'm all for criminal charges, but that process is long and slow. So why not show the contempt they deserve for starters?
Besides, denying them deference is a serious threat to their power. The SCOTUS has power inasmuch as people accept that it does. The more the attitude that the Federalist Society hacks are a bunch of corrupt political tools becomes prevalent, the less reforms like "expand the court to equal the number of circuits" and "force them to abide by ethics laws" will be outside the Overton window, which means they're that much closer to happening.
posted by Gelatin at 5:54 AM on April 6, 2023 [16 favorites]
All sarcasm aside, have you seen how much it irritates them when they don't get the deference they think they deserve? They crave it, and denying it to them hurts.
Besides, we've already established that the Republicans will go to bat for their SCOTUS judges (and presidents) no matter how openly corrupt, so impeachment is out. I'm all for criminal charges, but that process is long and slow. So why not show the contempt they deserve for starters?
Besides, denying them deference is a serious threat to their power. The SCOTUS has power inasmuch as people accept that it does. The more the attitude that the Federalist Society hacks are a bunch of corrupt political tools becomes prevalent, the less reforms like "expand the court to equal the number of circuits" and "force them to abide by ethics laws" will be outside the Overton window, which means they're that much closer to happening.
posted by Gelatin at 5:54 AM on April 6, 2023 [16 favorites]
seems like an excellent reason to pack the fucking court already
posted by logicpunk at 5:59 AM on April 6, 2023 [43 favorites]
posted by logicpunk at 5:59 AM on April 6, 2023 [43 favorites]
it is unclear precisely what the impact will be.
Some centrist ethicist types will express their concern, some liberals will call for Thomas to resign, some leftists will call for him to be impeached, some radicals will call for people to throw eggs at him, some bad-faith right-wing types will call all of those people racists, and the next guy who buys a Supreme Court justice will do a better job of covering his tracks.
posted by box at 6:01 AM on April 6, 2023 [39 favorites]
Some centrist ethicist types will express their concern, some liberals will call for Thomas to resign, some leftists will call for him to be impeached, some radicals will call for people to throw eggs at him, some bad-faith right-wing types will call all of those people racists, and the next guy who buys a Supreme Court justice will do a better job of covering his tracks.
posted by box at 6:01 AM on April 6, 2023 [39 favorites]
The Court isn't going to magically disappear or become irrelevant once it's credibility dips below a certain threshold.
I disagree. SCOTUS doesn't actually have much power under the Constitution -- not even judicial review, which the Court simply asserted for itself. There's a probably apocryphal quote by Andrew Jackson to the effect that the Supreme court can make rulings but can't enforce them.
It isn't necessarily a good thing that the Supreme Court becomes irrelevant, but it certainly could.
Likewise, John Roberts isn't going to step up and reign in the conservative majority (which he is a part of!) because he's concerned about the Court's legitimacy or his own legacy.
But that isn't for lack of trying; it's just that the conservative majority doesn't feel a need to temper their judicial activism any more.
Roberts tried to get his conservative majority not to explicitly overrule Roe, but just make another in a long series of rulings effectively annulling it (the way he's done with the Voting Rights Act, for example). But he failed to do so, and the backlash that he feared is costing Republicans at the ballot box.
posted by Gelatin at 6:04 AM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
I disagree. SCOTUS doesn't actually have much power under the Constitution -- not even judicial review, which the Court simply asserted for itself. There's a probably apocryphal quote by Andrew Jackson to the effect that the Supreme court can make rulings but can't enforce them.
It isn't necessarily a good thing that the Supreme Court becomes irrelevant, but it certainly could.
Likewise, John Roberts isn't going to step up and reign in the conservative majority (which he is a part of!) because he's concerned about the Court's legitimacy or his own legacy.
But that isn't for lack of trying; it's just that the conservative majority doesn't feel a need to temper their judicial activism any more.
Roberts tried to get his conservative majority not to explicitly overrule Roe, but just make another in a long series of rulings effectively annulling it (the way he's done with the Voting Rights Act, for example). But he failed to do so, and the backlash that he feared is costing Republicans at the ballot box.
posted by Gelatin at 6:04 AM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
Excited to see all of the consequences that will come of this
posted by windbox at 6:08 AM on April 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by windbox at 6:08 AM on April 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
(And again, to the extent that SCOTUS does have power, it can be checked by the Executive and Legislative branches. Hitherto, the idea of reforming the Court has been successfully portrayed by the so-called "liberal media" as a radical idea, but that situation is far from set in stone, and bad behavior by the judges -- in nakedly political rulings and in their personal corruption -- again only moves the Overton window in favor of reform.)
posted by Gelatin at 6:10 AM on April 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Gelatin at 6:10 AM on April 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
Every Democrat should be pushing for impeachment at every opportunity, Thomas delenda est style. Attach it to every bill, bring it up in every committee meeting, make the Republicans say "I don't think this is corruption", over and over again. Put "Abortion is illegal because this guy likes to eat at fancy restaurants for free." on the campaign signs all the way down to school board.
posted by Etrigan at 6:10 AM on April 6, 2023 [47 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 6:10 AM on April 6, 2023 [47 favorites]
The yacht: MICHAELA ROSE
It’s locator beacon was recently turned off, but it’s likely anchored at an island in the Mediterranean off the coast of Spain. Built in 1984, 49m/162ft., gross tons 525, 2080hp, 3800nm range @14kts, 16 passengers and 13 crew
The asshole: Harlan Crow is property holder, speculator and developer based in Texas. Famously the Crows have been the largest landlord in the United States. He is a leader and significant source of funding in the hard right.
posted by zenon at 6:11 AM on April 6, 2023 [14 favorites]
It’s locator beacon was recently turned off, but it’s likely anchored at an island in the Mediterranean off the coast of Spain. Built in 1984, 49m/162ft., gross tons 525, 2080hp, 3800nm range @14kts, 16 passengers and 13 crew
The asshole: Harlan Crow is property holder, speculator and developer based in Texas. Famously the Crows have been the largest landlord in the United States. He is a leader and significant source of funding in the hard right.
posted by zenon at 6:11 AM on April 6, 2023 [14 favorites]
As of this writing (7:25 am, Eastern Time, on April 6 2023), this news has only been public for 2 hours and it is unclear precisely what the impact will be
I can tell you already: none.
The cause and effect here is misplaced, though. Thomas didn’t get bribed to rule the way he does. This is pretty much what he's always believed and has said so regularly since being appointed.
Leonard Leo isn’t “suspected” of lobbying the Supreme Court rightward. He regularly announces that that’s what he’s doing.
They both predate the billionaires, though they’ve happily taken the money when offered.
posted by Galvanic at 6:25 AM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
I can tell you already: none.
The cause and effect here is misplaced, though. Thomas didn’t get bribed to rule the way he does. This is pretty much what he's always believed and has said so regularly since being appointed.
Leonard Leo isn’t “suspected” of lobbying the Supreme Court rightward. He regularly announces that that’s what he’s doing.
They both predate the billionaires, though they’ve happily taken the money when offered.
posted by Galvanic at 6:25 AM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
There will be absolutely zero impact to these disclosures. I'm not saying that's a good thing. But if I were a betting man I would bet on this being a non-event.
posted by sid at 6:35 AM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by sid at 6:35 AM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
They both predate the billionaires
I'm enjoying this phrasing because "predate the billionaires" is also a fancy way to say "eat the rich."
nakedly political rulings and in their personal corruption ... moves the Overton window in favor of reform
This is not my understanding of how Overton windows work. A sufficiently loud and sustained backlash might move the Overton window back toward reform, but the last seven years particularly the GOP have amply demonstrated that the more nakedly they cynically and corruptly abuse the system, the more wholeheartedly their base accept that the system is inherently cynical and corrupt and should be so abused.
posted by solotoro at 6:43 AM on April 6, 2023 [14 favorites]
I'm enjoying this phrasing because "predate the billionaires" is also a fancy way to say "eat the rich."
nakedly political rulings and in their personal corruption ... moves the Overton window in favor of reform
This is not my understanding of how Overton windows work. A sufficiently loud and sustained backlash might move the Overton window back toward reform, but the last seven years particularly the GOP have amply demonstrated that the more nakedly they cynically and corruptly abuse the system, the more wholeheartedly their base accept that the system is inherently cynical and corrupt and should be so abused.
posted by solotoro at 6:43 AM on April 6, 2023 [14 favorites]
The cause and effect here is misplaced, though. Thomas didn’t get bribed to rule the way he does. This is pretty much what he's always believed and has said so regularly since being appointed.
This is how modern corruption works: instead of suitcases full of unmarked bills in back alleys, you have an entire infrastructure of rewards for people who do and say the right things. You don't have to do anything so crass as bribing people when you just make sure that being the kind of person who does the things you want them to do will be, completely unrelated to any specific action they might take, rewarded.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:43 AM on April 6, 2023 [39 favorites]
This is how modern corruption works: instead of suitcases full of unmarked bills in back alleys, you have an entire infrastructure of rewards for people who do and say the right things. You don't have to do anything so crass as bribing people when you just make sure that being the kind of person who does the things you want them to do will be, completely unrelated to any specific action they might take, rewarded.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:43 AM on April 6, 2023 [39 favorites]
as John Roberts knows, SCOTUS is heavily dependent on public perception of its legitimacy
A lot has been made over the years about how very important this is to Roberts, but I can't buy it. If it were that important, I think we'd be seeing a lot more concrete expressions of that, beyond "Roberts sometimes presents a somewhat moderate voice alongside the ideological extremists". Amount other things, Roberts could have gotten the Court to define a stricter internal code of conduct for itself, regulating things like recusals (how did Thomas get to not recuse himself on cases connected to his own wife?) and activities like half the Court's constant appearances with, and funding by, a specific private organization that solely exists for the purpose of political activism; the Federalist Society states its aims very explicitly.
He could have done things like not hand over Kavanaugh's ethics investigation to a judge (Tymkovich) who was not only aligned with the Federalist Society but who also benefited from Kavanaugh's lobbying on his behalf to get him his position on the Tenth Circuit. (He could also have let that ethics investigation take place before Kavanaugh was confirmed, and he could have emphasized publicly and loudly during the nomination period how important it was for Justices to be free of even the appearance of impropriety. He could also have pulled a lot of strings against the nomination and confirmation behind the scenes, and possibly he did - but somehow I doubt it. He could have done similar things regarding the blatant hypocrisy over not confirming Garland and then fast-tracking Barrett. He didn't.)
Roberts' concern with the perception of legitimacy seems to go about as far as most politicians' "concern" about things. It's a cute PR narrative that doesn't end up amounting to nearly as much as it implies.
posted by trig at 6:44 AM on April 6, 2023 [51 favorites]
A lot has been made over the years about how very important this is to Roberts, but I can't buy it. If it were that important, I think we'd be seeing a lot more concrete expressions of that, beyond "Roberts sometimes presents a somewhat moderate voice alongside the ideological extremists". Amount other things, Roberts could have gotten the Court to define a stricter internal code of conduct for itself, regulating things like recusals (how did Thomas get to not recuse himself on cases connected to his own wife?) and activities like half the Court's constant appearances with, and funding by, a specific private organization that solely exists for the purpose of political activism; the Federalist Society states its aims very explicitly.
He could have done things like not hand over Kavanaugh's ethics investigation to a judge (Tymkovich) who was not only aligned with the Federalist Society but who also benefited from Kavanaugh's lobbying on his behalf to get him his position on the Tenth Circuit. (He could also have let that ethics investigation take place before Kavanaugh was confirmed, and he could have emphasized publicly and loudly during the nomination period how important it was for Justices to be free of even the appearance of impropriety. He could also have pulled a lot of strings against the nomination and confirmation behind the scenes, and possibly he did - but somehow I doubt it. He could have done similar things regarding the blatant hypocrisy over not confirming Garland and then fast-tracking Barrett. He didn't.)
Roberts' concern with the perception of legitimacy seems to go about as far as most politicians' "concern" about things. It's a cute PR narrative that doesn't end up amounting to nearly as much as it implies.
posted by trig at 6:44 AM on April 6, 2023 [51 favorites]
Since this story is so new, very few people have heard of it or know it exists.
Grab your Republican friend or relative and askl them if they heard about the new story about how Ketanji Brown Jackson has regularly been accepting trips on yachts, flights, vacations, and other gifts from George Soros without reporting them. Tell them how inappropriate and corrupt you feel that is. Allow them to express their own opinions. Get them to commit to what should be done about it.
Then look at your phone. "So sorry -- I had that wrong. It's actually Clarence Thomas and Harlan Crow."
posted by flarbuse at 6:45 AM on April 6, 2023 [104 favorites]
Grab your Republican friend or relative and askl them if they heard about the new story about how Ketanji Brown Jackson has regularly been accepting trips on yachts, flights, vacations, and other gifts from George Soros without reporting them. Tell them how inappropriate and corrupt you feel that is. Allow them to express their own opinions. Get them to commit to what should be done about it.
Then look at your phone. "So sorry -- I had that wrong. It's actually Clarence Thomas and Harlan Crow."
posted by flarbuse at 6:45 AM on April 6, 2023 [104 favorites]
I missed this at the time:
That same year [2011], Politico revealed that Crow had given half a million dollars to a Tea Party group founded by Ginni Thomas, which also paid her a $120,000 salary.posted by joannemerriam at 7:02 AM on April 6, 2023 [24 favorites]
all of the above, and, speaking as someone who used to do this kind of work: *slow clap* Check this out:
The story is so worth reading, but I gotta drop one little spoiler: At one point they mention a painting, hanging on the wall of the Adirondack lodge getaway... and they have a photo of the painting, complete with Thomas and Crow smoking cigars, with Leonard Leo of the Federalist Society .. and they have a photo of the painting, and they tracked down the artist who painted it.
it's just such excellent reporting. please click it, read it, refer it and send ProPublica a donation if you can.
posted by martin q blank at 7:03 AM on April 6, 2023 [46 favorites]
ProPublica uncovered the details of Thomas’ travel by drawing from flight records, internal documents distributed to Crow’s employees and interviews with dozens of people ranging from his superyacht’s staff to members of the secretive Bohemian Club to an Indonesian scuba diving instructor.
The story is so worth reading, but I gotta drop one little spoiler: At one point they mention a painting, hanging on the wall of the Adirondack lodge getaway... and they have a photo of the painting, complete with Thomas and Crow smoking cigars, with Leonard Leo of the Federalist Society .. and they have a photo of the painting, and they tracked down the artist who painted it.
it's just such excellent reporting. please click it, read it, refer it and send ProPublica a donation if you can.
posted by martin q blank at 7:03 AM on April 6, 2023 [46 favorites]
This is not my understanding of how Overton windows work. A sufficiently loud and sustained backlash might move the Overton window back toward reform, but the last seven years particularly the GOP have amply demonstrated that the more nakedly they cynically and corruptly abuse the system, the more wholeheartedly their base accept that the system is inherently cynical and corrupt and should be so abused.
So what? The Republican base may have outsized influence due to the countermajoritarian structures of the Senate and Electoral College, among others, but they are not a majority and they don't run the whole show. Far from it.
Of course the Republican base won't accept anything that reduces their power -- and since they're a majority with no hope of persuading a majority to adopt their terrible policies, of course they'll use whatever minority rule they can. But sufficiently motivated (say, by an overtly political ruling overturning Roe), the majority can and does assert its own power.
The Republican dilemma is that their base has been conditioned to love Trump-style corrupt authoritarianism -- because the entire premise of conservatism is that there must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect -- but the majority not only instinctively rejects that odious stance but recognizes the inherent threat to their own position. Which is why Republicans have been losing a lot, for example recently in Wisconsin.
posted by Gelatin at 7:03 AM on April 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
So what? The Republican base may have outsized influence due to the countermajoritarian structures of the Senate and Electoral College, among others, but they are not a majority and they don't run the whole show. Far from it.
Of course the Republican base won't accept anything that reduces their power -- and since they're a majority with no hope of persuading a majority to adopt their terrible policies, of course they'll use whatever minority rule they can. But sufficiently motivated (say, by an overtly political ruling overturning Roe), the majority can and does assert its own power.
The Republican dilemma is that their base has been conditioned to love Trump-style corrupt authoritarianism -- because the entire premise of conservatism is that there must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect -- but the majority not only instinctively rejects that odious stance but recognizes the inherent threat to their own position. Which is why Republicans have been losing a lot, for example recently in Wisconsin.
posted by Gelatin at 7:03 AM on April 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
The most recent polling I find says that 25% of the American public expressed a positive opinion of the Supreme Court.
This Gallup overview from the fall gives a 40 percent approval rating, but that's still historically low; it looks to have averaged around 50 percent since 2000. However, the share saying that the Court is too conservative grew from around 20 percent in the 2010s to 42 percent. Today, only 18 percent say it's too liberal, down from 37 percent in 2016.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 7:18 AM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
This Gallup overview from the fall gives a 40 percent approval rating, but that's still historically low; it looks to have averaged around 50 percent since 2000. However, the share saying that the Court is too conservative grew from around 20 percent in the 2010s to 42 percent. Today, only 18 percent say it's too liberal, down from 37 percent in 2016.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 7:18 AM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
I disagree. SCOTUS doesn't actually have much power under the Constitution -- not even judicial review, which the Court simply asserted for itself. There's a probably apocryphal quote by Andrew Jackson to the effect that the Supreme court can make rulings but can't enforce them.
This is just as fanciful as pretending that Biden can do more to advance progressive priorities in Congress. I'd argue that Andrew Jackson's remark about the court enforcing rulings is the quintessential argument in favor of Green Lantern Theory.
One third of the government isn't going to disappear or mend their dastardly ways because people are disrespecting them. What you say about general trends may be true, but you're doing an awful lot of hand-waiving in your arguments--Overton Windows, silent majorities, etc--when it comes to how change actually occurs.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:27 AM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
This is just as fanciful as pretending that Biden can do more to advance progressive priorities in Congress. I'd argue that Andrew Jackson's remark about the court enforcing rulings is the quintessential argument in favor of Green Lantern Theory.
One third of the government isn't going to disappear or mend their dastardly ways because people are disrespecting them. What you say about general trends may be true, but you're doing an awful lot of hand-waiving in your arguments--Overton Windows, silent majorities, etc--when it comes to how change actually occurs.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:27 AM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
The public doesn't have any faith in SCOTUS ' legitimacy. I'm not sure it ever has.
I lost my faith on December 12, 2000.
posted by TedW at 7:37 AM on April 6, 2023 [37 favorites]
I lost my faith on December 12, 2000.
posted by TedW at 7:37 AM on April 6, 2023 [37 favorites]
What you say about general trends may be true, but you're doing an awful lot of hand-waiving in your arguments--Overton Windows, silent majorities, etc--when it comes to how change actually occurs.
On the contrary, I am saying that change occurs when there's enough of a majority to overcome the counter-majoritarian structures in our system that favor the status quo.
posted by Gelatin at 7:54 AM on April 6, 2023
On the contrary, I am saying that change occurs when there's enough of a majority to overcome the counter-majoritarian structures in our system that favor the status quo.
posted by Gelatin at 7:54 AM on April 6, 2023
On the contrary, I am saying that change occurs when there's enough of a majority to overcome the counter-majoritarian structures in our system that favor the status quo.
Great! How do we build that majority with respect to the Supreme Court specifically?
posted by Gadarene at 7:58 AM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Great! How do we build that majority with respect to the Supreme Court specifically?
posted by Gadarene at 7:58 AM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
and send ProPublica a donation if you can
I've been sending them $10/month for years (tooting my own horn, rude!). Anyway, I get the emails and usually read the headlines. But I don't often read the stories. It's... too much. Too much corruption, too depressing, too much on top of everything else. I am happy (and lucky) I can support them. I wish their excellent, diligent work ended in charges or change or more discussion, more often. But sometimes it does!
posted by Glinn at 7:58 AM on April 6, 2023 [18 favorites]
I've been sending them $10/month for years (tooting my own horn, rude!). Anyway, I get the emails and usually read the headlines. But I don't often read the stories. It's... too much. Too much corruption, too depressing, too much on top of everything else. I am happy (and lucky) I can support them. I wish their excellent, diligent work ended in charges or change or more discussion, more often. But sometimes it does!
posted by Glinn at 7:58 AM on April 6, 2023 [18 favorites]
This story is enraging. I used to believe that the judicial branch in the US was the intellectual, honorable one. Above politics. And the Supreme Court was the best of the best. I've long since been disabused of that idea but it still pains me to see it so tackily corrupted like this.
But the much larger harms Thomas has done are his rulings. And the fact that his wife is working to overthrow the elected US government.
ProPublica is fantastic but has very little reach itself. They do however have a great reputation and other news outlets are happy to write stories based on their journalism. So far I'm seeing references or rewrites of this story in CNN, The Guardian, the Washington Post, CNBC, USA Today, MSNBC, Rolling Stone, NPR, etc. Presumably these outlets were pre-briefed before ProPublica published. The story will get out there although it remains to be seen whether it will actually have any practical impact.
posted by Nelson at 8:02 AM on April 6, 2023 [16 favorites]
But the much larger harms Thomas has done are his rulings. And the fact that his wife is working to overthrow the elected US government.
ProPublica is fantastic but has very little reach itself. They do however have a great reputation and other news outlets are happy to write stories based on their journalism. So far I'm seeing references or rewrites of this story in CNN, The Guardian, the Washington Post, CNBC, USA Today, MSNBC, Rolling Stone, NPR, etc. Presumably these outlets were pre-briefed before ProPublica published. The story will get out there although it remains to be seen whether it will actually have any practical impact.
posted by Nelson at 8:02 AM on April 6, 2023 [16 favorites]
Great! How do we build that majority with respect to the Supreme Court specifically?
By continuing to win the Presidency, which is necessary but not sufficient. By maintaining a Senate majority. And then, by both expanding the Supreme Court and subjecting it to binding ethics laws, on the grounds that it has shown that it's incapable of policing itself. The latter two would probably also require getting rid of the filibuster.
And no, none of those will be easy, but just as Dobbs is the spark behind a number of Democratic victories -- including a ten point margin in Wisconsin that may well break the back of Republican minority rule in that state -- directing public outrage at Republican judicial corruption will help.
It's heaps better than pretending that the Supreme Court doesn't matter when choosing who to vote for President.
posted by Gelatin at 8:05 AM on April 6, 2023 [17 favorites]
By continuing to win the Presidency, which is necessary but not sufficient. By maintaining a Senate majority. And then, by both expanding the Supreme Court and subjecting it to binding ethics laws, on the grounds that it has shown that it's incapable of policing itself. The latter two would probably also require getting rid of the filibuster.
And no, none of those will be easy, but just as Dobbs is the spark behind a number of Democratic victories -- including a ten point margin in Wisconsin that may well break the back of Republican minority rule in that state -- directing public outrage at Republican judicial corruption will help.
It's heaps better than pretending that the Supreme Court doesn't matter when choosing who to vote for President.
posted by Gelatin at 8:05 AM on April 6, 2023 [17 favorites]
Recall that, despite the fact that the Republicans outright stole one SCOTUS seat from Obama and then forced thru the current crop of extremists despite Trump's dubious legitimacy, when Biden was elected the notion of expanding the Court was said to be off the table by those (including the media and senators like Manchin and Sinema) with an interest in maintaining the status quo. Unlike Republican power grabs, which often occur outside of public notice and scrutiny, Democratic reform efforts will happen in the public view and so need public support. Which, given that the public in general does not support the agenda of the current radicals, is also necessary, if not sufficient.
posted by Gelatin at 8:11 AM on April 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Gelatin at 8:11 AM on April 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
This is how modern corruption works: instead of suitcases full of unmarked bills in back alleys, you have an entire infrastructure of rewards for people who do and say the right things
That structure exists across the political spectrum, albeit less well funded on the progressive side. A good progressive student gets a scholarship at school, does a paid internship (hey, Propublica has paid fellowships!) in the summer in a left leaning think tank, gets a job at an advocacy group or non-profit supported by donors (propublica's list of supporters is here: https://www.propublica.org/supporters/ ), goes to funded seminars during the summer, etc. etc.
The right has lots more money sloshing around the infrastructure, a particular affinity for really grifty stuff, and probably more super-yachts, but everybody in the system nurtures like-thinkers along the way.
posted by Galvanic at 8:13 AM on April 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
That structure exists across the political spectrum, albeit less well funded on the progressive side. A good progressive student gets a scholarship at school, does a paid internship (hey, Propublica has paid fellowships!) in the summer in a left leaning think tank, gets a job at an advocacy group or non-profit supported by donors (propublica's list of supporters is here: https://www.propublica.org/supporters/ ), goes to funded seminars during the summer, etc. etc.
The right has lots more money sloshing around the infrastructure, a particular affinity for really grifty stuff, and probably more super-yachts, but everybody in the system nurtures like-thinkers along the way.
posted by Galvanic at 8:13 AM on April 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
I'm going to bang this drum forever: Impeachment is removal from office, there is a baked in requirement that to continue holding office the justices exhibit Good Behavior.
Biden pro-rogues Thomas, requires that Congress affirm his Good Behavior requirement is being met.
Does it sound like Congress can't do that because that would never pass the dems in the senate? And that no action would get through the dems in the senate? And that impeachment of Biden could be quickly quashed by Senate dems?
Man, wild, that's exactly the gridlock that's keeping a corrupt jurist on the bench under a "no powers exist other than impeachment to address this" paradigm.
Tell Roberts the power to prorogue derives from the line below judicial review as per Marbury.
posted by Slackermagee at 8:25 AM on April 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
Biden pro-rogues Thomas, requires that Congress affirm his Good Behavior requirement is being met.
Does it sound like Congress can't do that because that would never pass the dems in the senate? And that no action would get through the dems in the senate? And that impeachment of Biden could be quickly quashed by Senate dems?
Man, wild, that's exactly the gridlock that's keeping a corrupt jurist on the bench under a "no powers exist other than impeachment to address this" paradigm.
Tell Roberts the power to prorogue derives from the line below judicial review as per Marbury.
posted by Slackermagee at 8:25 AM on April 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
they have a photo of the painting, complete with Thomas and Crow smoking cigars, with Leonard Leo of the Federalist Society
Who are the two other men in that painting?
posted by bq at 8:29 AM on April 6, 2023
Who are the two other men in that painting?
posted by bq at 8:29 AM on April 6, 2023
The incredible thing to me remains how cheap all this corruption is. A few tens of thousand dollars here and there, to undermine the entire legal process?
And for what? For a little bit of money? There's more to life than a little money, you know.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:37 AM on April 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
And for what? For a little bit of money? There's more to life than a little money, you know.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:37 AM on April 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
Who are the two other men in that painting?
Peter Rutledge and Mark Paoletta (per current caption in article).
posted by Not A Thing at 8:40 AM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Peter Rutledge and Mark Paoletta (per current caption in article).
posted by Not A Thing at 8:40 AM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Lawyers, judges, Roberts and the whole legal system doesn't particularly care about what the public thinks. It is a deeply insular society, a cult with a very rigid hierarchy. To join the cult you must go through an extremely extended hazing and the only people who are attracted to it are a special sort of debate club kid. Folks who can want to read all the lore, have an ability to retain the cannon and really love rigid application of rules. More than anything they crave being able to prove that their argument is right.
The extent of Roberts actual power almost entirely rests on just persuading other judges and lawyers. Conservative groups have simply hijacked this system, starting in law school they have built their own pipeline to supply conservative lawyers and judges to their political allies in the GOP. What matters in this alternative system is how closely you conform your thinking to your sponsors. Your actual legal arguments can be weak and unconvincing. Like Thomas. Or spectacular in their effort to contort history and reality into your theory, like Alito.
But the whole premise of the Federalist Society fails if it is unable to recruit, if it can't persuade new adherents. That is why the drama at law schools have become national news. Like the protests at Stanford when Kyle Duncan was recently invited to speak. Duncan is a notorious judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit who has had a very direct role in limiting the rights of people to live their identity. This bigot Duncan was invited to come by the school's Federalist society chapter.
The fall out from this protest was immense - starting with an Associate Dean for Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Tirien Steinbach who is now on leave. The school's leadership made a groveling apology. The Federalist Society also directly targeted the students future prospects, possibly the most important thing to law students. James Ho and Elizabeth Branch, 'judges', claim that they wouldn't take ANY clerks from Stanford. Of course this was announced at Federalist Society conference in Kentucky. Conservatives have weaponized the politics of respectability, which is how we ended up having famed internet lawyer popehat and John Banzhaf jump in on this as well. Banzhaf got himself on the news for saying he was going to file a bar complaint against the student protesters. Yes, the same guy who got the special prosecutor for Nixon going. And Trump in Georgia. It's beyond actual parody.
A similar reaction occurred last year, where Federalist Society affiliated judges said that they wouldn't work with a bunch of Yale law student protesters. The Yale students interrupted a fundamentalist attorney, Kristen Waggoner, who had been invited to speak on campus by a campus conservative group. Yep, Yale's federalist society invited a lawyer with hate group Alliance Defending Freedom, who was famous for defending that Colorado baker who refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding.
Roberts and his Federalist backers are failing to convince the next generation of lawyers/judges, because their arguments are actually rubbish, and this, more than anything, is what they hate most. The kids know they are right, and that's why the attacks on them are so emotional. Law students at Harvard, Stanford, Columbia and Yale should 'know their place' - and for their compliance they can expect to be reward in the law clerk grift. These law schools are critical parts of the whole legal system, hell, three of the current Supreme Court judges got their degrees at Yale. I hope every dollar that people like Barre Seid spent on this Federalist Society project will be wasted trying and utterly failing to win over a bunch of young idealists and pendants.
posted by zenon at 8:42 AM on April 6, 2023 [33 favorites]
The extent of Roberts actual power almost entirely rests on just persuading other judges and lawyers. Conservative groups have simply hijacked this system, starting in law school they have built their own pipeline to supply conservative lawyers and judges to their political allies in the GOP. What matters in this alternative system is how closely you conform your thinking to your sponsors. Your actual legal arguments can be weak and unconvincing. Like Thomas. Or spectacular in their effort to contort history and reality into your theory, like Alito.
But the whole premise of the Federalist Society fails if it is unable to recruit, if it can't persuade new adherents. That is why the drama at law schools have become national news. Like the protests at Stanford when Kyle Duncan was recently invited to speak. Duncan is a notorious judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit who has had a very direct role in limiting the rights of people to live their identity. This bigot Duncan was invited to come by the school's Federalist society chapter.
The fall out from this protest was immense - starting with an Associate Dean for Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Tirien Steinbach who is now on leave. The school's leadership made a groveling apology. The Federalist Society also directly targeted the students future prospects, possibly the most important thing to law students. James Ho and Elizabeth Branch, 'judges', claim that they wouldn't take ANY clerks from Stanford. Of course this was announced at Federalist Society conference in Kentucky. Conservatives have weaponized the politics of respectability, which is how we ended up having famed internet lawyer popehat and John Banzhaf jump in on this as well. Banzhaf got himself on the news for saying he was going to file a bar complaint against the student protesters. Yes, the same guy who got the special prosecutor for Nixon going. And Trump in Georgia. It's beyond actual parody.
A similar reaction occurred last year, where Federalist Society affiliated judges said that they wouldn't work with a bunch of Yale law student protesters. The Yale students interrupted a fundamentalist attorney, Kristen Waggoner, who had been invited to speak on campus by a campus conservative group. Yep, Yale's federalist society invited a lawyer with hate group Alliance Defending Freedom, who was famous for defending that Colorado baker who refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding.
Roberts and his Federalist backers are failing to convince the next generation of lawyers/judges, because their arguments are actually rubbish, and this, more than anything, is what they hate most. The kids know they are right, and that's why the attacks on them are so emotional. Law students at Harvard, Stanford, Columbia and Yale should 'know their place' - and for their compliance they can expect to be reward in the law clerk grift. These law schools are critical parts of the whole legal system, hell, three of the current Supreme Court judges got their degrees at Yale. I hope every dollar that people like Barre Seid spent on this Federalist Society project will be wasted trying and utterly failing to win over a bunch of young idealists and pendants.
posted by zenon at 8:42 AM on April 6, 2023 [33 favorites]
That structure exists across the political spectrum, albeit less well funded on the progressive side. A good progressive student gets a scholarship at school, does a paid internship (hey, Propublica has paid fellowships!) in the summer in a left leaning think tank, gets a job at an advocacy group or non-profit supported by donors (propublica's list of supporters is here: https://www.propublica.org/supporters/ ), goes to funded seminars during the summer, etc. etc.
The right has lots more money sloshing around the infrastructure, a particular affinity for really grifty stuff, and probably more super-yachts, but everybody in the system nurtures like-thinkers along the way.
There's pipelines into professionalism on both sides, but that's not what I'm talking about. Go look up how many ex-Congresscritters become well-paid lobbyists and board members and get ridiculously-priced speaking engagements and so forth. You don't get invited to serve on corporate boards after you've left your seat by voting to raise taxes and regulate business.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:42 AM on April 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
The right has lots more money sloshing around the infrastructure, a particular affinity for really grifty stuff, and probably more super-yachts, but everybody in the system nurtures like-thinkers along the way.
There's pipelines into professionalism on both sides, but that's not what I'm talking about. Go look up how many ex-Congresscritters become well-paid lobbyists and board members and get ridiculously-priced speaking engagements and so forth. You don't get invited to serve on corporate boards after you've left your seat by voting to raise taxes and regulate business.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:42 AM on April 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
ProPublica is fantastic but has very little reach itself. They do however have a great reputation and other news outlets are happy to write stories based on their journalism. So far I'm seeing references or rewrites of this story in CNN, The Guardian, the Washington Post, CNBC, USA Today, MSNBC, Rolling Stone, NPR, etc.
Confirming that it was actually an NPR piece on this article this morning that alerted me to it in the first place.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:53 AM on April 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
Confirming that it was actually an NPR piece on this article this morning that alerted me to it in the first place.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:53 AM on April 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
Ah good old state-affiliated media in action. ;-)
posted by Nelson at 8:57 AM on April 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 8:57 AM on April 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
This is how modern corruption works: instead of suitcases full of unmarked bills in back alleys, you have an entire infrastructure of rewards for people who do and say the right things
I've mentioned this in another thread about Joe Manchin but this is exactly right and I'd take it a step further than an "infrastructure" though it technically is one, perhaps in the same way I see a lot of extremely successful sales reps go on to become so friendly with some of their clients that they become more than just a salesperson but "the really good friend with the corporate card".
I highly doubt it even feels this way to anyone engaging in it - you can tell from looking at the pictures of their vacations - it's literally just people "doing business together and eventually becoming close friends that spend vacations and holidays together". There is no rubbing hands together over a pile of money or a Big Offer for a lavish vacation with a "you'll come through for me right??? wink wink", it's literally just "Harlan is great guy, we've been working together a long time, our family and the Harlan's are super close" and it gets to a point where you just don't say no to each other on business matters and cause tension, everyone is just Good People who Help Each Other Out.
In their mind they are literally just doing business and engaging in social activities as family friends, I think it's that entrenched. And when "activists" complain about it I think it doesn't even register, it's just a bunch of little gnat people buzzing like gnats who don't understand how business is done and how "real life" works.
posted by windbox at 8:59 AM on April 6, 2023 [24 favorites]
I've mentioned this in another thread about Joe Manchin but this is exactly right and I'd take it a step further than an "infrastructure" though it technically is one, perhaps in the same way I see a lot of extremely successful sales reps go on to become so friendly with some of their clients that they become more than just a salesperson but "the really good friend with the corporate card".
I highly doubt it even feels this way to anyone engaging in it - you can tell from looking at the pictures of their vacations - it's literally just people "doing business together and eventually becoming close friends that spend vacations and holidays together". There is no rubbing hands together over a pile of money or a Big Offer for a lavish vacation with a "you'll come through for me right??? wink wink", it's literally just "Harlan is great guy, we've been working together a long time, our family and the Harlan's are super close" and it gets to a point where you just don't say no to each other on business matters and cause tension, everyone is just Good People who Help Each Other Out.
In their mind they are literally just doing business and engaging in social activities as family friends, I think it's that entrenched. And when "activists" complain about it I think it doesn't even register, it's just a bunch of little gnat people buzzing like gnats who don't understand how business is done and how "real life" works.
posted by windbox at 8:59 AM on April 6, 2023 [24 favorites]
So what? The Republican base may have outsized influence due to the countermajoritarian structures of the Senate and Electoral College, among others, but they are not a majority and they don't run the whole show. Far from it.
You're right, I realized I should have completed my thinking, but then I was called away to other things. I meant to also say that while this sort of thing pulls the Overton window toward corruption for their base, it can also do so for their opposition, as many start to say 'welp, that's just what Republicans do now.' Again, see the last seven years in particular and the neverending chorus of sarcastic and wilting "surely this"s.
I'm not saying you're wrong that this might just whip up enough anger that things actually change toward the better. I'm saying that you're skipping a step when talking about Overton windows, it's the outrage and concrete consequences that would move it in the right direction, and we don't know yet whether that will materialize. In their absence, the blatancy of the corrupt acts moves the window in the wrong direction by taking a previously unthinkable act and making it thinkable. So I'm more interested in learning more about how we organize and get those consequences than I am in proclamations that it will definitely happen. I can't take that on faith anymore.
posted by solotoro at 9:01 AM on April 6, 2023
You're right, I realized I should have completed my thinking, but then I was called away to other things. I meant to also say that while this sort of thing pulls the Overton window toward corruption for their base, it can also do so for their opposition, as many start to say 'welp, that's just what Republicans do now.' Again, see the last seven years in particular and the neverending chorus of sarcastic and wilting "surely this"s.
I'm not saying you're wrong that this might just whip up enough anger that things actually change toward the better. I'm saying that you're skipping a step when talking about Overton windows, it's the outrage and concrete consequences that would move it in the right direction, and we don't know yet whether that will materialize. In their absence, the blatancy of the corrupt acts moves the window in the wrong direction by taking a previously unthinkable act and making it thinkable. So I'm more interested in learning more about how we organize and get those consequences than I am in proclamations that it will definitely happen. I can't take that on faith anymore.
posted by solotoro at 9:01 AM on April 6, 2023
I hope this results in action to remove him. I don't expect it will.
Still, should be a great "Court Culture" segment on the excellent Strict Scrutiny Podcast at least. Private jets? Luxury yachts? International travel? Expensive gifts? YOLO Court indeed.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 9:12 AM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Still, should be a great "Court Culture" segment on the excellent Strict Scrutiny Podcast at least. Private jets? Luxury yachts? International travel? Expensive gifts? YOLO Court indeed.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 9:12 AM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
I hope this results in action to remove him. I don't expect it will.
Surprise - one congresswoman has indeed officially called for Thomas to be impeached.
Mind you, that congresswoman is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, which means that it's going to get the requisite knee-jerk pushback from the entire right, so....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:17 AM on April 6, 2023 [15 favorites]
Surprise - one congresswoman has indeed officially called for Thomas to be impeached.
Mind you, that congresswoman is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, which means that it's going to get the requisite knee-jerk pushback from the entire right, so....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:17 AM on April 6, 2023 [15 favorites]
It's the top story linked on my Google News page. A lot of ProPublica articles end up in the top stories of Google News. I'm not sure what is meant by them not having much reach -- I see them everywhere, both their own articles and reporting on their reporting.
posted by hippybear at 9:29 AM on April 6, 2023
posted by hippybear at 9:29 AM on April 6, 2023
And for what? For a little bit of money? There's more to life than a little money, you know.
Break out the woodchipper!
posted by dlugoczaj at 9:33 AM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
Break out the woodchipper!
posted by dlugoczaj at 9:33 AM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
As of 1:00 PM it's today's most-read story on the Washington Post's website.
posted by martin q blank at 9:57 AM on April 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by martin q blank at 9:57 AM on April 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
Not reporting large gifts as a federal employee is a crime, right? Criminal charges are totally appropriate, and exactly the kind of blow to court legitimacy that will force him to step down.
posted by kaibutsu at 10:05 AM on April 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by kaibutsu at 10:05 AM on April 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
I don't use the algorithm, but my twitter has seen it posted 4 times, and it is ALL OVER Mastodon. This one is going wide really fast.
posted by hippybear at 10:14 AM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 10:14 AM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Not that it's likely, but... it's gotten so much play that I wouldn't be surprised if Thomas, or the court on his behalf, issued some sort of half-assed statement of regrets, etc.
But this one line in the PP story: "Thomas did not respond to a detailed list of questions."
It makes me so happy to know how pissed he must have been to learn there would be scrutiny and a public spotlight. And no doubt that list of questions was sent days or maybe weeks ago, so he's been stewing all this time. *chef's kiss*
posted by martin q blank at 10:16 AM on April 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
But this one line in the PP story: "Thomas did not respond to a detailed list of questions."
It makes me so happy to know how pissed he must have been to learn there would be scrutiny and a public spotlight. And no doubt that list of questions was sent days or maybe weeks ago, so he's been stewing all this time. *chef's kiss*
posted by martin q blank at 10:16 AM on April 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
He didn't seem to give a shit one iota about the public spotlight when he was responding to questions about Anita Hill. Like T, I need to start a new list of "Surely, this"s.
posted by Melismata at 10:19 AM on April 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 10:19 AM on April 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
yeah, poorly phrased on my part. I'm thinking it would be Roberts' call, and drafted by the Court's PR people, saying something mushy like "Justices are aware of the confusion over the reporting requirements and will review" hurr durr. Thomas himself will be silent.
posted by martin q blank at 10:24 AM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by martin q blank at 10:24 AM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Mind you, that congresswoman is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, which means that it's going to get the requisite knee-jerk pushback from the entire right, so....
even so, even so
with the times we live in, the fact that some people are still willing to bear witness and call out the bullshit, we can't forget that it's something
posted by elkevelvet at 10:27 AM on April 6, 2023 [17 favorites]
even so, even so
with the times we live in, the fact that some people are still willing to bear witness and call out the bullshit, we can't forget that it's something
posted by elkevelvet at 10:27 AM on April 6, 2023 [17 favorites]
A painting that hangs at Camp Topridge shows Crow, far right, and Thomas, second from right, smoking cigars at the resort. They are joined by lawyers Peter Rutledge, Leonard Leo and Mark Paoletta, from left. Credit:Painting by Sharif Tarabay
Does anyone else find it profoundly weird that this is a painting? like that hangs at the resort? Like, I would get it if it was some sort of artistic comment referencing the "dogs playing poker" painting, but it's not presented that way.
posted by Dr. Twist at 10:35 AM on April 6, 2023 [14 favorites]
Does anyone else find it profoundly weird that this is a painting? like that hangs at the resort? Like, I would get it if it was some sort of artistic comment referencing the "dogs playing poker" painting, but it's not presented that way.
posted by Dr. Twist at 10:35 AM on April 6, 2023 [14 favorites]
Quick aside - I agree with zenon that there are many idealists and pendants in the law school ranks, but in my experience your average lawyer is a liberal arts major who lacked the skill and/or self-confidence to try to make it as a novelist and couldn’t think of anything better to do than go law school.
More on point - I lost most of my idealism and naïveté decades ago, but some part of me is still profoundly shocked, disappointed, and saddened by this article. Maybe we really are living in a Cormac McCarthy novel.
posted by lumpy at 10:53 AM on April 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
More on point - I lost most of my idealism and naïveté decades ago, but some part of me is still profoundly shocked, disappointed, and saddened by this article. Maybe we really are living in a Cormac McCarthy novel.
posted by lumpy at 10:53 AM on April 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
We need to teach these people that there is no separate thing called "the appearance of a conflict of interest". The conflict exists as an ethically untenable thing whether you've provenly acted on it or not. "The appearance of a conflict of interest" is a deeply corrupt idea that never should have taken hold on either side. You want to be in public life? You must be entirely above ethical reproach. The end.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 10:54 AM on April 6, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 10:54 AM on April 6, 2023 [14 favorites]
Sharif Tarabay seems like exactly the kind of painter that rich conservative men would like.
posted by box at 11:03 AM on April 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by box at 11:03 AM on April 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
This is absolutely wrong, but I can't imagine that this particular case is affecting Thomas's decisions. Say what you will about the man (make it critical, and I'll probably agree with you), but he is a true believer. Certainly at this point at his life, hanging out with or having a luxury vacation paid for by a right-wing buddy is not going to sway his opinions. Rather, his choice of who to vacation with reflects them.
But it's certainly emblematic of the Federalist Society and the other right-wing infrastructure, which has pushed the judiciary to the right (even as law school faculty are, in general, much more liberal than the country overall).
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 11:04 AM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
But it's certainly emblematic of the Federalist Society and the other right-wing infrastructure, which has pushed the judiciary to the right (even as law school faculty are, in general, much more liberal than the country overall).
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 11:04 AM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
The question which has been going through my mind this morning has been how many reporters knew something of this story but never followed up for fear of repercussions. Neither Thomas seems like the sort of person not to mention their elite vacations, and I’d be surprised if at least some of that didn’t come up, say, Nina Totenberg’s dinner parties.
posted by adamsc at 11:10 AM on April 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by adamsc at 11:10 AM on April 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
> Sharif Tarabay seems like exactly the kind of painter that rich conservative men would like.
My lord those paintings are terrible, but that's just, like, my opinion, man. What isn't just my opinion is the fact that no golf course on Earth would have a green like this.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:11 AM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
My lord those paintings are terrible, but that's just, like, my opinion, man. What isn't just my opinion is the fact that no golf course on Earth would have a green like this.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:11 AM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
Certainly at this point at his life, hanging out with or having a luxury vacation paid for by a right-wing buddy is not going to sway his opinions.
I believe this as well. It's not an issue of corruption with a quid pro quo, but at the same time, there is the sense that it's letting Thomas know where his bread is buttered, right? "Stick with us kid, and you go far. New Zealand, even."
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:32 AM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
I believe this as well. It's not an issue of corruption with a quid pro quo, but at the same time, there is the sense that it's letting Thomas know where his bread is buttered, right? "Stick with us kid, and you go far. New Zealand, even."
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:32 AM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Certainly at this point at his life, hanging out with or having a luxury vacation paid for by a right-wing buddy is not going to sway his opinions.
On a broader scale, no. But it might at the very least subconsciously sway his opinion when it comes to which specific cases to select for a SCOTUS term.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:47 AM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
On a broader scale, no. But it might at the very least subconsciously sway his opinion when it comes to which specific cases to select for a SCOTUS term.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:47 AM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
And now the Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin has gone on record saying that the Senate Judiciary Committee will take action on this.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:43 PM on April 6, 2023 [23 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:43 PM on April 6, 2023 [23 favorites]
And for what? For a little bit of money?
Money is largely a proxy for power. Being able to get one over is also proof of power, actually better proof than money. Especially if you're able to get one over on the regular. And insomuch as the actor is directly conscious of Getting One Over, there's a little burst of adrenaline/dopamine when it happens.
It's also proof that I Am The Right Sort. These powerful people want to do me little favors. Inconsequential favors, really, which makes the favors not a big deal. Just proof that I'm well thought of in the right circles.
It's not about the amount of money, because that would mean that you need their money to exercise your power, and that those giving the money have the power. Instead, this is more like nobility offering small gifts of admiration to each other. You don't gift large amounts because either now they explicitly owe you, which makes you more powerful, or it's evidence that you must buy favors because you don't necessarily have the support of the other nobility, which indicates vulnerability.
The small amounts of money are the equivalent of giving a nod of recognition to an equal at a cocktail party when there's no particular reason to have a long conversation.
posted by tllaya at 12:52 PM on April 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
Money is largely a proxy for power. Being able to get one over is also proof of power, actually better proof than money. Especially if you're able to get one over on the regular. And insomuch as the actor is directly conscious of Getting One Over, there's a little burst of adrenaline/dopamine when it happens.
It's also proof that I Am The Right Sort. These powerful people want to do me little favors. Inconsequential favors, really, which makes the favors not a big deal. Just proof that I'm well thought of in the right circles.
It's not about the amount of money, because that would mean that you need their money to exercise your power, and that those giving the money have the power. Instead, this is more like nobility offering small gifts of admiration to each other. You don't gift large amounts because either now they explicitly owe you, which makes you more powerful, or it's evidence that you must buy favors because you don't necessarily have the support of the other nobility, which indicates vulnerability.
The small amounts of money are the equivalent of giving a nod of recognition to an equal at a cocktail party when there's no particular reason to have a long conversation.
posted by tllaya at 12:52 PM on April 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
The other thing to remember is that it's not just Thomas and Crow snuggling with each other. From the story:
posted by martin q blank at 1:06 PM on April 6, 2023 [18 favorites]
Crow’s access to the justice extends to anyone the businessman chooses to invite along. Thomas’ frequent vacations at Topridge have brought him into contact with corporate executives and political activists.All sorts of people -- right-wingers, to be sure -- are getting access to Thomas. They may even have had cases before the court. We have no idea. (Yet?)
During just one trip in July 2017, Thomas’ fellow guests included executives at Verizon and PricewaterhouseCoopers, major Republican donors and one of the leaders of the American Enterprise Institute, a pro-business conservative think tank, according to records reviewed by ProPublica. The painting of Thomas at Topridge shows him in conversation with Leonard Leo, the Federalist Society leader regarded as an architect of the Supreme Court’s recent turn to the right.
posted by martin q blank at 1:06 PM on April 6, 2023 [18 favorites]
As of 1:00 PM it's today's most-read story on the Washington Post's website.
It's also in prominent position on the Drudge Report
posted by chavenet at 1:30 PM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's also in prominent position on the Drudge Report
posted by chavenet at 1:30 PM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
In a way, this is a relief. I was struggling with figuring out how an honest person could be so wrong in so many ways. Now as it turns out he is just a corrupt piece of shit, everything makes sense. (Yes, I don't remember the whole Anita Hill thing very well, I wasn't very interested at the time).
posted by mumimor at 1:54 PM on April 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 1:54 PM on April 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
Well, I went looking to see if we'd ever figured out who paid off Justice Brett Kavanaugh's $200,000+ in personal debt - turned out his parents bailed him out, so that must be nice, and I was reminded that he's and Justice Thomas have "accused of sexual assault before taking the bench" in common, cool cool - but that reminded me that we haven't mentioned Ginni Thomas and the $1.5 million dollar ad campaign her "consulting" company created to support her husbands's nomination. That was paid for by, and gosh this name comes up a lot here, Leonard Leo.
Pretty crazy set of coincidences if you ask me.
posted by mhoye at 1:54 PM on April 6, 2023 [11 favorites]
Pretty crazy set of coincidences if you ask me.
posted by mhoye at 1:54 PM on April 6, 2023 [11 favorites]
My lord those paintings are terrible, but that's just, like, my opinion, man. What isn't just my opinion is the fact that no golf course on Earth would have a green like this.
Wow, those really are terrible. I thought Kinkade was horrible but even if I ignore the subject matter the, composition execution and production values of those are so bad they look like they were mostly pasted up out of cell phone photographs and run through a bad Photoshop filter or AI image generator.
They're so bad that it's like someone went to a diploma mill art school and had weird ideas that visual center, unified light and shadow and even basic perspective were too Communist or progressive and they swore to never use them.
Seriously I've seen examples of art-that-matches-the-couch in fleabag motels that was more visually appealing or dynamic than this.
I don't think I will ever understand why so many rich and/or powerful people have such awful taste in everything and I'm not sure if I even want to understand.
posted by loquacious at 1:58 PM on April 6, 2023 [11 favorites]
Wow, those really are terrible. I thought Kinkade was horrible but even if I ignore the subject matter the, composition execution and production values of those are so bad they look like they were mostly pasted up out of cell phone photographs and run through a bad Photoshop filter or AI image generator.
They're so bad that it's like someone went to a diploma mill art school and had weird ideas that visual center, unified light and shadow and even basic perspective were too Communist or progressive and they swore to never use them.
Seriously I've seen examples of art-that-matches-the-couch in fleabag motels that was more visually appealing or dynamic than this.
I don't think I will ever understand why so many rich and/or powerful people have such awful taste in everything and I'm not sure if I even want to understand.
posted by loquacious at 1:58 PM on April 6, 2023 [11 favorites]
The GOP's strategy to turn the entire judiciary into the de facto law-making body in the US has more than paid off for them. And even if Thomas is impeached, the Senate will never convict him. This may generate some unwelcome attention but it won't amount to much more than noise. Change must happen elsewhere.
posted by tommasz at 1:59 PM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 1:59 PM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
The problem is not whether or not these donations of private jet flights and rides on yachts inspire Thomas to rule differently. The problem is that Supreme Court Justices are not supposed to have even a whiff of conflict of interest about them, and this one really really really really does.
posted by hydropsyche at 2:20 PM on April 6, 2023 [23 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 2:20 PM on April 6, 2023 [23 favorites]
With the connections to Leo and his wife's now public flirting with treason, it's been obvious for a long while even before this that Thomas is spoiled milk. I don't know whether he was like this when he got into his position (I think the sexual harassment hearings were very trying for him, poor soul), but after getting there, he spent years being the least speaking person on the court, going an entire decade without one comment or question from the bench, and was only forced to change when pandemic remote court sessions involved people asking questions in turn and him having to go second.
He's been, at the very least, a bitter presence on the court for decades. He's probably been getting worse and at the same time more emboldened over the years as the court membership swung his way. He's been actually stating his desire to remake the American system all along in his dissenting opinions. We need to listen to people when they tell us who they are.
I don't know what need to happen to remove him, but I'd like to see him gone.
posted by hippybear at 2:37 PM on April 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
He's been, at the very least, a bitter presence on the court for decades. He's probably been getting worse and at the same time more emboldened over the years as the court membership swung his way. He's been actually stating his desire to remake the American system all along in his dissenting opinions. We need to listen to people when they tell us who they are.
I don't know what need to happen to remove him, but I'd like to see him gone.
posted by hippybear at 2:37 PM on April 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
More attention to Thomas' blatant defiance of any reasonable expectation of ethics and more scrutiny of the ocean of dark money and influence that sustains the Federalist Society are both desirable, but we are clearly screwed beyond easy recovery when:
posted by Nerd of the North at 2:45 PM on April 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
- this has apparently been going on for decades and nobody has managed to make an issue of it until now
- "Supreme Court Justice's insurrectionist wife was paid more than $100k salary by dark money group funded by billionaires' donations" is a neglected side-story that will be forgotten by the end of the holiday weekend, chiefly because it's not surprising to anyone who has been paying attention
- no meaningful penalty or censure is expected, but the corrupt justice might face a non-binding request to be less obvious in the future
posted by Nerd of the North at 2:45 PM on April 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
Great post, thanks OP! ❤️
posted by Bella Donna at 2:50 PM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 2:50 PM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Alexandra Petri weighs in: "Please keep in mind, my fellow Americans, that each moment I spent on the yacht was torment! That is why I did not disclose it."
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 2:53 PM on April 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 2:53 PM on April 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
The painting: The Conversation with Justice Thomas. It's described as "Oil Portrait of Harlan Crow, Justice Thomas, Bo Rutledge, Leonard Leo and Mark Paoletta relaxing as friends." Just a portrait of some dudes.
It's not the only one in this series - Contemplation featuring Harlan Crow and Charles Murray also has strong regular Joe vibe. My personal favorite just for it's realistic composition of the Zombie himself is President Bush with friends. It uses the term "relaxing" to describe Crow, the disgraced president, and presumably Mrs Crow, who doesn't get a name. They are depicted out boating while Bush clearly disassociates and appears to be haunted by the horrors of war.
posted by zenon at 3:11 PM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's not the only one in this series - Contemplation featuring Harlan Crow and Charles Murray also has strong regular Joe vibe. My personal favorite just for it's realistic composition of the Zombie himself is President Bush with friends. It uses the term "relaxing" to describe Crow, the disgraced president, and presumably Mrs Crow, who doesn't get a name. They are depicted out boating while Bush clearly disassociates and appears to be haunted by the horrors of war.
posted by zenon at 3:11 PM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Oil Portrait of Harlan Crow, Justice Thomas, Bo Rutledge, Leonard Leo and Mark Paoletta relaxing as friends." Just a portrait of some dudes.
Scrolling around in there is a ride. I mean, if you had a billion dollars, wouldn't you want to get important moments like that commemorated by a guy who'd also done a Larry The Cable Guy ad and actual dogs playing poker?
posted by mhoye at 3:22 PM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Scrolling around in there is a ride. I mean, if you had a billion dollars, wouldn't you want to get important moments like that commemorated by a guy who'd also done a Larry The Cable Guy ad and actual dogs playing poker?
posted by mhoye at 3:22 PM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Oil Portrait of Harlan Crow, Justice Thomas, Bo Rutledge, Leonard Leo and Mark Paoletta relaxing as friends
i know what the statue behind them is thinking
"calgon, take me away"
posted by pyramid termite at 3:46 PM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
i know what the statue behind them is thinking
"calgon, take me away"
posted by pyramid termite at 3:46 PM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think the sexual harassment hearings were very trying for him, poor soul
An excellent way for him to have avoided that would be to not sexually harass anyone in the first place, but I digress.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:03 PM on April 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
An excellent way for him to have avoided that would be to not sexually harass anyone in the first place, but I digress.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:03 PM on April 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
Yes, poor soul. He was so persecuted.
posted by hippybear at 4:12 PM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 4:12 PM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's time for the Democrats in the Senate to stand up on their hind legs and formally issue a decree declaring Thomas a Poopie Head. They can do it on a Frida afternoon when nobody's in the chamber except whoever has Speaker For The Day duty and the camera operator for CSPAN.
That'll rock SCOTUS to its foundations, and maybe even get some of them to resign.
posted by mule98J at 4:54 PM on April 6, 2023
That'll rock SCOTUS to its foundations, and maybe even get some of them to resign.
posted by mule98J at 4:54 PM on April 6, 2023
My favorite part was learning about Justice Thomas' philosophy on tipping:
posted by peeedro at 5:09 PM on April 6, 2023 [42 favorites]
As a token of his appreciation, he gave one yacht worker a copy of his memoir. Thomas signed the book: “Thank you so much for all your hard work on our New Zealand adventure.”The service staff doesn't want a copy of your fucking book, they want a smile, a handshake, and an envelope full of cash. No wonder the yacht staff were willing to talk to reporters.
posted by peeedro at 5:09 PM on April 6, 2023 [42 favorites]
I'm wondering if Thomas saw a NZ tourism ad which influenced his decision to head this way?
Also miffed this seemed to have completely been missed by NZ media at the time (who will merrily report on a celeb sighting at a local cafe at the drop of a hat). We will never know the answer to the oft asked NZ media question to famous visitors "So what do you think of NZ?"
posted by phigmov at 5:43 PM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
Also miffed this seemed to have completely been missed by NZ media at the time (who will merrily report on a celeb sighting at a local cafe at the drop of a hat). We will never know the answer to the oft asked NZ media question to famous visitors "So what do you think of NZ?"
posted by phigmov at 5:43 PM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
Ungated Dallas Morning News explainer on Harlan Crow. Come read for his political donations, stay and read further for rezoning his fancy-schmancy Highland Park home as a historical collection and the underground parking garage he had built so people could come to his library and his parties without parking on neighborhood streets (so gauche!).
posted by gentlyepigrams at 5:45 PM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by gentlyepigrams at 5:45 PM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Several of my Twitter buds have tweeted the same thing re this story, a phrase which is now an NZ Twitter in-joke: "Sound the New Zealand Relevance klaxon!"
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 5:55 PM on April 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 5:55 PM on April 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
Clarence Thomas Broke the Law and It Isn’t Even Close
posted by Artw at 5:56 PM on April 6, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:56 PM on April 6, 2023 [9 favorites]
Los Angeles Times reported about Justice Thomas’ gifts 20 years ago. After that he stopped disclosing them
posted by Etrigan at 8:04 PM on April 6, 2023 [18 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 8:04 PM on April 6, 2023 [18 favorites]
That painter is just.... I'm speechless. Here's grandpa about to break his grandson's back!
posted by TedW at 5:36 AM on April 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by TedW at 5:36 AM on April 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) yesterday on Twitter says good ol' Harlan isn't just an innocent purveyor of hospitality:
"Important for news media to not simply label this guy as a “GOP mega donor”. It’s so much worse. Crow has many interests before the Supreme Court. His groups file petitions before the court. It’s the clearest, most brazen violation of judicial ethics you can imagine."
posted by martin q blank at 6:50 AM on April 7, 2023 [18 favorites]
"Important for news media to not simply label this guy as a “GOP mega donor”. It’s so much worse. Crow has many interests before the Supreme Court. His groups file petitions before the court. It’s the clearest, most brazen violation of judicial ethics you can imagine."
posted by martin q blank at 6:50 AM on April 7, 2023 [18 favorites]
His defense is pretty silly. Just say "as a stalwart defender of capitalism, it's the lifestyle I deserve."
posted by Selena777 at 10:50 AM on April 7, 2023
posted by Selena777 at 10:50 AM on April 7, 2023
More on Thomas' defense
What a corrupt man.
posted by Nelson at 10:54 AM on April 7, 2023
was advised that this sort of personal hospitality from close personal friends, who did not have business before the court, was not reportableIt's remarkable he talked directly about business before the court, given the reporting on Crow's involvement in numerous court-related matters. Perhaps Crow didn't personally have a case of his own before the court?
What a corrupt man.
posted by Nelson at 10:54 AM on April 7, 2023
Just like the Times to carry Thomas' water so they can deflate another outlet's reporting.
One more reason I don't subscribe to them anymore.
posted by martin q blank at 11:19 AM on April 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
One more reason I don't subscribe to them anymore.
posted by martin q blank at 11:19 AM on April 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Advised by who? The close personal friends, or actual lawyers? The ignorance of the law defense doesn't look so good coming from a Supreme Court Justice.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:19 AM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:19 AM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
An analysis of Thomas' own defense I read kind of had a point....
Part of the problem is that the regulations for what SCOTUS judges had to disclose was kind of poorly written, and has only recently been clarified. That's exactly the loophole I mention in the post; the rules said only that if you were visiting a friend or went traveling with a friend, and the friend paid for the whole thing, you didn't have to disclose it. But if your friend paid for transport, you were supposed to disclose it. The gray area came in with "but isn't the transport part of the travel with your friend? Like, what, if my highschool BFF and I go on a weekend trip to Cooperstown and he pays for everything, are you saying I should only report the Uber to the hotel, but not the hotel or the dinners or the visit to the Cooperstown museum or the commemorative baseballs or any of that? That's ridiculous - clearly the Uber is part of that trip."
That point has been clarified for SCOTUS judges, but only recently. That's what Thomas means when he says that he had been under the impression he didn't need to report any of this sooner, but now he will report what he's expected to. (Of course, Thomas was also doing things like using Crow's private jet for a day trip to his old grade school, or using it to fly Ted Cruz from Dallas to DC so he could be present at a particular judicial swearing-in for a photo op, but hey.) The recent update also adds that from now on, you do need to disclose it if your buddy pays for you to stay at a resort as opposed to staying in his spare bedroom or whatever.
This whole situation is also calling to a lot of people's attention that every other judicial court in this country has an ethical code of conduct, but SCOTUS doesn't. Everyone just kind of assumes that they're supposed to abide by the code of conduct used for all federal judges. But SCOTUS has never come out and declared that "yep, this is officially what we're doing" or "nope, we're different, we're going to abide by THIS". In fact, in 2011, Chief Justice Roberts seemed to suggest that they didn't need to state one way or the other; his argument was that the Constitution called for the establishment of the Supreme Court, and gave them the power to create lower courts; and, it also gave them the power to set the standards for those other courts. But nothing in the Constitution said that SCOTUS also had to abide by those standards, or any standards. Instead, he basically argued that the SCOTUS judges would just sort of....always be noble enough to do the right thing. “I have complete confidence in the capability of my colleagues to determine when recusal is warranted,” Roberts he wrote.
So you have a loosey-goosey system governing those nine judges and a loosey-goosey set rules of conduct, and that leads to a whole lot of gray areas which guys like Thomas and Crow can slide right on through.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:57 AM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
Part of the problem is that the regulations for what SCOTUS judges had to disclose was kind of poorly written, and has only recently been clarified. That's exactly the loophole I mention in the post; the rules said only that if you were visiting a friend or went traveling with a friend, and the friend paid for the whole thing, you didn't have to disclose it. But if your friend paid for transport, you were supposed to disclose it. The gray area came in with "but isn't the transport part of the travel with your friend? Like, what, if my highschool BFF and I go on a weekend trip to Cooperstown and he pays for everything, are you saying I should only report the Uber to the hotel, but not the hotel or the dinners or the visit to the Cooperstown museum or the commemorative baseballs or any of that? That's ridiculous - clearly the Uber is part of that trip."
That point has been clarified for SCOTUS judges, but only recently. That's what Thomas means when he says that he had been under the impression he didn't need to report any of this sooner, but now he will report what he's expected to. (Of course, Thomas was also doing things like using Crow's private jet for a day trip to his old grade school, or using it to fly Ted Cruz from Dallas to DC so he could be present at a particular judicial swearing-in for a photo op, but hey.) The recent update also adds that from now on, you do need to disclose it if your buddy pays for you to stay at a resort as opposed to staying in his spare bedroom or whatever.
This whole situation is also calling to a lot of people's attention that every other judicial court in this country has an ethical code of conduct, but SCOTUS doesn't. Everyone just kind of assumes that they're supposed to abide by the code of conduct used for all federal judges. But SCOTUS has never come out and declared that "yep, this is officially what we're doing" or "nope, we're different, we're going to abide by THIS". In fact, in 2011, Chief Justice Roberts seemed to suggest that they didn't need to state one way or the other; his argument was that the Constitution called for the establishment of the Supreme Court, and gave them the power to create lower courts; and, it also gave them the power to set the standards for those other courts. But nothing in the Constitution said that SCOTUS also had to abide by those standards, or any standards. Instead, he basically argued that the SCOTUS judges would just sort of....always be noble enough to do the right thing. “I have complete confidence in the capability of my colleagues to determine when recusal is warranted,” Roberts he wrote.
So you have a loosey-goosey system governing those nine judges and a loosey-goosey set rules of conduct, and that leads to a whole lot of gray areas which guys like Thomas and Crow can slide right on through.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:57 AM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
His defense is pretty silly.
The fact that he’s bothering totalklie about it all is surprising.
posted by Etrigan at 12:51 PM on April 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
The fact that he’s bothering to
posted by Etrigan at 12:51 PM on April 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
<derail> I almost laughed in disbelief at that nytimes article - I think there's both a lot of bad and a lot of good in a lot of nytimes reporting, but things like this really make me hope the writer and editor of this article are somehow just too young to recognize how obscene this whitewashing is:
<\derail>
posted by trig at 12:54 PM on April 7, 2023 [25 favorites]
John Yoo, a law professor at the University of California, Berkeley, who clerked for Justice Thomas and served in President George W. Bush’s administration, said he did not believe that vacations or gifts would play any role in the decisions he issued.This is that John Yoo.
<\derail>
posted by trig at 12:54 PM on April 7, 2023 [25 favorites]
Then look at your phone. "So sorry -- I had that wrong. It's actually Clarence Thomas and Harlan Crow."
That doesn't work. The usual retort is 'ahh well they both do it anyway, they're all corrupt'
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 2:35 PM on April 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
That doesn't work. The usual retort is 'ahh well they both do it anyway, they're all corrupt'
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 2:35 PM on April 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
>Oil Portrait of Harlan Crow, Justice Thomas, Bo Rutledge, Leonard Leo and Mark Paoletta relaxing as friends
I have created my own version here. All billionaires please line up to the left, to receive your own "hand painted" and extremely personalized flattering portraits with only the most famous and recognizable people.
(P.S. Apologies for the rude gestures they are all making. Sometimes it is just so difficult to control the AI art process, and also the damn thing seems to have some kind of a filter preventing tobacco and alcohol products from being shown, something about "corrupting the youth" or some other damn nonsense. So "flipping the bird to everyone in sight" was about the best it could do in lieu of "casually smoking a cigar as large as my forearm".)
posted by flug at 5:33 PM on April 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have created my own version here. All billionaires please line up to the left, to receive your own "hand painted" and extremely personalized flattering portraits with only the most famous and recognizable people.
(P.S. Apologies for the rude gestures they are all making. Sometimes it is just so difficult to control the AI art process, and also the damn thing seems to have some kind of a filter preventing tobacco and alcohol products from being shown, something about "corrupting the youth" or some other damn nonsense. So "flipping the bird to everyone in sight" was about the best it could do in lieu of "casually smoking a cigar as large as my forearm".)
posted by flug at 5:33 PM on April 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
This is that John Yoo.It’s really something when the best person you can find to speak on someone’s behalf is John “crushing the child’s testicles” Yoo. The entire federalist society and that’s the strongest advocate?
posted by adamsc at 8:01 PM on April 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
More pertinant to this particular case, Yoo is one of the architects of the Unitary Executive and Theory. And as such I can easily see him feeling no qualms whatsoever for any person in power to be grabbing at anything that is offered in their direction as a symbol of that power.
posted by hippybear at 8:22 PM on April 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 8:22 PM on April 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
I guess, thinking about it a bit more over time, my frustration with Thomas and this whole situation, beyond the illegality of much of it, is this: I was taught growing up (somehow, don't know when or how) that the more power you have, the more you need to not look like you're doing anything wrong. The whole "appearance of impropriety" thing, only somehow from being like in 4th or 5th grade. And I'm left with this frustration I've been left with much of my adult life -- this was taught to me when I was a child, I was led to believe this is how the world works, but it doesn't work this way and I'm left the fool for having believed it worked that way.
So, basically, a big Mister Rogers finger wag at Justice Thomas, and that gentle voice saying, "You knew this was wrong all along, didn't you?" and me fantasizing lil Clarence looking at his shoes and saying meekly "yeah, I knew".
posted by hippybear at 8:31 PM on April 7, 2023 [12 favorites]
So, basically, a big Mister Rogers finger wag at Justice Thomas, and that gentle voice saying, "You knew this was wrong all along, didn't you?" and me fantasizing lil Clarence looking at his shoes and saying meekly "yeah, I knew".
posted by hippybear at 8:31 PM on April 7, 2023 [12 favorites]
It’s really something when the best person you can find to speak on someone’s behalf is John Yoo.More likely the NYT just had him on speed dial.
posted by Nerd of the North at 10:22 PM on April 7, 2023 [10 favorites]
From the Washingtonian:
Clarence Thomas’s Billionaire Benefactor Collects Hitler Artifacts
Harlan Crow also reportedly has a garden full of dictator statues.
posted by HeroZero at 6:51 AM on April 8, 2023 [16 favorites]
Clarence Thomas’s Billionaire Benefactor Collects Hitler Artifacts
Harlan Crow also reportedly has a garden full of dictator statues.
posted by HeroZero at 6:51 AM on April 8, 2023 [16 favorites]
“I still can’t get over the collection of Nazi memorabilia,” a visitor of Crow’s home told the Washingtonian. “It would have been helpful to have someone explain the significance of all the items. Without that context, you sort of just gasp when you walk into the room.”There's a word for a person with a collection of Nazi memorabilia. It's "Nazi".
(Once again reminded about how differently Germany approaches Nazi history. It's just unimaginable to have Hitler memorabilia on display in your house. I'm sure people do somewhere in Germany but it'd be hidden. And depending on what it is, they could face prosecution for even owning it.)
posted by Nelson at 9:39 AM on April 8, 2023 [14 favorites]
danah boyd and Ethan Zuckerman have been in Crow's house and saw his Nazi collection. danah talks about it in a thread here, Ethan is here. From danah:
Years later, I still shudder thinking about the Nazi uniform decorations in Harlan Crow’s house. And the painting. And the book. And the statues. And the “antebellum” (pro slavery) artifacts. I’m glad others are questioning the acceptability of those materials.posted by Nelson at 10:14 AM on April 8, 2023 [16 favorites]
The dictator-statue garden is, like, Bond-villain level weird.
I'm very much with Nelson on the memorabilia; I cannot imagine wanting to possess such tainted objects. Also, the various reports on how openly it's displayed: a mechanism for selecting like-minded acquaintances.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 9:30 AM on April 9, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm very much with Nelson on the memorabilia; I cannot imagine wanting to possess such tainted objects. Also, the various reports on how openly it's displayed: a mechanism for selecting like-minded acquaintances.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 9:30 AM on April 9, 2023 [5 favorites]
It's a great day for both the Nazi-adjacent conservative commentariat and the whiny "oh so everybody that disagrees with you is a Nazi?!" centrist reply guys.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 11:48 AM on April 9, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 11:48 AM on April 9, 2023 [3 favorites]
I don't know if this got posted here but ProPublica has a sequel to this article: Clarence Thomas Defends Undisclosed “Family Trips” With GOP Megadonor. Here Are the Facts.
posted by hippybear at 10:22 AM on April 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 10:22 AM on April 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
And I guess we get another article tomorrow about how the sausage of the first article was made. ProPublica reporting on its own reporting process?
posted by hippybear at 10:25 AM on April 10, 2023
posted by hippybear at 10:25 AM on April 10, 2023
From hippybear’s link: In a previous statement to ProPublica, Crow said that Thomas “never asked for any of this hospitality” and that his treatment of the justice was “no different from the hospitality we have extended to our many other dear friends.”
Well, now I am curious as to who those “other dear friends” are, and what government positions they are in. I have my suspicions.
posted by TedW at 12:17 PM on April 10, 2023 [5 favorites]
Well, now I am curious as to who those “other dear friends” are, and what government positions they are in. I have my suspicions.
posted by TedW at 12:17 PM on April 10, 2023 [5 favorites]
In a previous statement to ProPublica, Crow said that Thomas “never asked for any of this hospitality”
Whether Thomas asked for the hospitality has no bearing on the fact that his accepting it was likely illegal and certainly unethical.
and that his treatment of the justice was “no different from the hospitality we have extended to our many other dear friends.”
In addition to TedW's apt curiosity, whether Crowoffers in-kind bribed to other public officials "extends hospitality" to other "friends" has no bearing on the fact that his accepting it was likely illegal and certainly unethical.
posted by Gelatin at 12:51 PM on April 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
Whether Thomas asked for the hospitality has no bearing on the fact that his accepting it was likely illegal and certainly unethical.
and that his treatment of the justice was “no different from the hospitality we have extended to our many other dear friends.”
In addition to TedW's apt curiosity, whether Crow
posted by Gelatin at 12:51 PM on April 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
No, I wasn’t suspecting Jeffries. It really is all inbreeding. No wonder people think voting is a waste of time.
posted by TedW at 1:18 PM on April 10, 2023
posted by TedW at 1:18 PM on April 10, 2023
There's a big difference between giving a speech at an office park in Dallas and a million dollar vacation on a yacht in the Pacific.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:31 PM on April 10, 2023
posted by hydropsyche at 4:31 PM on April 10, 2023
So, in a case like this, does the IRS say “Hmm… I wonder if he paid taxes on those twenty years of gifts/all-expense-paid luxury vacations…”
—or does that only get looked at if he happens to be one of the people picked to get audited?
posted by blueberry at 1:38 AM on April 11, 2023
—or does that only get looked at if he happens to be one of the people picked to get audited?
posted by blueberry at 1:38 AM on April 11, 2023
Pretty sure the IRS’ thought process also has to include questions like “will the net outcome be that he and his colleagues decide 5-4 that the Founders did not give Congress the authority to establish an income tax?” or “will this get a ruling that if we accept a tax return we can’t go back later and ask you to pay the difference when we find an error?”
posted by adamsc at 4:38 AM on April 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by adamsc at 4:38 AM on April 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
There's a word for a person with a collection of Nazi memorabilia. It's "Nazi".
Unless you're the WSJ, who at this point I half expect would consider that another case of "adjectival overkill" whereas perhaps they'd prefer to simply describe him as a collector of memorabilia. Poynter calls out the WSJ's absurd take on ProPublica's reporting in this post.
posted by Pryde at 8:03 AM on April 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Unless you're the WSJ, who at this point I half expect would consider that another case of "adjectival overkill" whereas perhaps they'd prefer to simply describe him as a collector of memorabilia. Poynter calls out the WSJ's absurd take on ProPublica's reporting in this post.
posted by Pryde at 8:03 AM on April 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Shorter WSJ: We don't want to admit how bad Thomas' corruption looks, so we're going to complain about the adjectives used to describe said corruption!
(My only issue with the Poynter column is it needlessly giving the editorial writer the benefit of the doubt about "not realizing" how much it'd look like a whitewash.)
posted by Gelatin at 10:01 AM on April 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
(My only issue with the Poynter column is it needlessly giving the editorial writer the benefit of the doubt about "not realizing" how much it'd look like a whitewash.)
posted by Gelatin at 10:01 AM on April 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
From Talia Lavin's Substack: The collectors: on Harlan Crow, the human drive to accumulate, and what it means to own a country.
posted by box at 10:02 AM on April 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 10:02 AM on April 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
There's a word for a person with a collection of Nazi memorabilia. It's "Nazi".
Not many of them left but I still want to carve out an exception for Allied troops who brought stuff back. Not Nazi, but like a colleague's family who has a Carcano because their grandfather met a gentleman in Italy who didn't need his rifle anymore.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 11:57 AM on April 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Not many of them left but I still want to carve out an exception for Allied troops who brought stuff back. Not Nazi, but like a colleague's family who has a Carcano because their grandfather met a gentleman in Italy who didn't need his rifle anymore.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 11:57 AM on April 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
True, but there are significant and obvious differences between specific war spoils and memorabilia, especially an extensive collection that includes a statue garden of dictators.
posted by eviemath at 12:02 PM on April 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 12:02 PM on April 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
How does one even shop for dictator statues to put in one's garden?
posted by hippybear at 12:08 PM on April 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 12:08 PM on April 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
One shops with Nazis, I should think.
posted by solotoro at 12:37 PM on April 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by solotoro at 12:37 PM on April 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Pretty sure the IRS’ thought process also has to include questions like “will the net outcome be that he and his colleagues decide 5-4 that the Founders did not give Congress the authority to establish an income tax?”
I think your point is good, but I don't want to let anyone to think the court is going to make this particular decision. The court did make this exact decision in 1895, but that is now superseded by the 16th amendment (ratified 1913).
posted by polecat at 4:40 PM on April 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I think your point is good, but I don't want to let anyone to think the court is going to make this particular decision. The court did make this exact decision in 1895, but that is now superseded by the 16th amendment (ratified 1913).
posted by polecat at 4:40 PM on April 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
More court history, an NYTimes op/ed: 54 Years Ago, a Supreme Court Justice Was Forced to Quit for Behavior Arguably Less Egregious Than Thomas’s.
The NYTimes also has a profile of Harlan Crow framing him as "eccentric" with various "gosh that's weird" comments from his reprehensible friends about his Hitler painting.
posted by Nelson at 4:54 PM on April 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
The NYTimes also has a profile of Harlan Crow framing him as "eccentric" with various "gosh that's weird" comments from his reprehensible friends about his Hitler painting.
posted by Nelson at 4:54 PM on April 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
Video from ProPublica with the reporter of this story: Clarance Thomas' Secret Life Of Luxury [45m]
posted by hippybear at 8:53 AM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 8:53 AM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Every author I follow on any form of social media is saying "There is no editor I have ever worked with who would let me get away with Harlan Crow, who has a Garden of Evil and collects Hitler paintings", and the fucking NYT is firmly committed to normalizing him.
posted by Etrigan at 8:57 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 8:57 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
Clarence Thomas’s Billionaire Friend Is No Nazi, from Graeme Wood.
Excerpts:
"I am reminded of the old joke about the man at the bar who complains about his reputation, 'I build 1,000 bridges, but do they call me ‘McGregor the Bridge Builder’? No! But I screw one goat …'
...What is it about Nazism that makes these people lose all reason and sense of proportion? I guess it’s the industrial slaughter of Jews, [Roma], people with disabilities, and homosexuals, and the nearly successful attempt to conquer the planet. So I can see why someone might freak out over Hitler memorabilia. But everyone understands that his likenesses of Che Guevara, Hermann Göring, and Ceaușescu are not there for veneration (how could one venerate them all?) and that Crow is not America’s last surviving Hoxhaist. The accusation that he is a Nazi is similarly unwarranted.
...Crow’s politics are not mine. But in the matter of his pastimes, he is blameless. Billionaires have their hobbies, and to me, his are among the more relatable."
I'm convinced that Crow is not a Nazi sympathizer, but unlike Wood, I still think anyone who collects Nazi memorabilia - even as part of a far broader collection - is, if not evil, quite screwed up.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 10:24 AM on April 12, 2023
Excerpts:
"I am reminded of the old joke about the man at the bar who complains about his reputation, 'I build 1,000 bridges, but do they call me ‘McGregor the Bridge Builder’? No! But I screw one goat …'
...What is it about Nazism that makes these people lose all reason and sense of proportion? I guess it’s the industrial slaughter of Jews, [Roma], people with disabilities, and homosexuals, and the nearly successful attempt to conquer the planet. So I can see why someone might freak out over Hitler memorabilia. But everyone understands that his likenesses of Che Guevara, Hermann Göring, and Ceaușescu are not there for veneration (how could one venerate them all?) and that Crow is not America’s last surviving Hoxhaist. The accusation that he is a Nazi is similarly unwarranted.
...Crow’s politics are not mine. But in the matter of his pastimes, he is blameless. Billionaires have their hobbies, and to me, his are among the more relatable."
I'm convinced that Crow is not a Nazi sympathizer, but unlike Wood, I still think anyone who collects Nazi memorabilia - even as part of a far broader collection - is, if not evil, quite screwed up.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 10:24 AM on April 12, 2023
Last year, Crow and his wife, Kathy, put on an event to honor two Dallas humanitarians, and I was invited with about 100 others for cocktails and canapés in the Crows’ cavernous library—a Texas-scale wood-paneled room with a walk-in fireplace and a collection of art and memorabilia worthy of a Bond villain.
Monsters groom allies too, and Wood should be embarrassed that he sold himself this cheap.
Wood leans heavily on the idea that Crow can't possibly be a Nazi because he does other things besides be a Nazi, in a country that pushed Nazism into dark corners for decades. He has Black friends! cries Wood, apparently unaware that anyone has ever said anything remotely like this ever before to defend a racist.
Do I know whether, in his heart of hearts, Harlan Crow would snap to attention and raise his hand into the air if Hitler appeared before him? Of course I don't know that. But "He's not a literal, actual, card-carrying German National Socialist of the 1930s!" is an intentional distraction being peddled by people who were paid and groomed by Harlan Crow, and every new article that comes out by someone who's cheerfully taken his money or his booze only makes me wonder Why are they taking every opportunity to be this mad at everyone who says it?
posted by Etrigan at 10:48 AM on April 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
Monsters groom allies too, and Wood should be embarrassed that he sold himself this cheap.
Wood leans heavily on the idea that Crow can't possibly be a Nazi because he does other things besides be a Nazi, in a country that pushed Nazism into dark corners for decades. He has Black friends! cries Wood, apparently unaware that anyone has ever said anything remotely like this ever before to defend a racist.
Do I know whether, in his heart of hearts, Harlan Crow would snap to attention and raise his hand into the air if Hitler appeared before him? Of course I don't know that. But "He's not a literal, actual, card-carrying German National Socialist of the 1930s!" is an intentional distraction being peddled by people who were paid and groomed by Harlan Crow, and every new article that comes out by someone who's cheerfully taken his money or his booze only makes me wonder Why are they taking every opportunity to be this mad at everyone who says it?
posted by Etrigan at 10:48 AM on April 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
Notice how Crow's defenders are moving the goalposts from "Crow collects Nazi memorabilia" to "Is it fair to call Crow a Nazi?"
The ProPublica article didn't do that. But people are free to draw their own conclusions from the facts it presented.
The next time I encounter a good faith argument from the right will be the first time.
posted by Gelatin at 10:59 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
The ProPublica article didn't do that. But people are free to draw their own conclusions from the facts it presented.
The next time I encounter a good faith argument from the right will be the first time.
posted by Gelatin at 10:59 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
Notice how Crow's defenders are moving the goalposts from "Crow collects Nazi memorabilia" to "Is it fair to call Crow a Nazi?"
Scrolling up a few comments, I see: "There's a word for a person with a collection of Nazi memorabilia. It's 'Nazi'." I am not defending Crow. With all the valid and accurate criticisms to choose from, why make one up?
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 11:53 AM on April 12, 2023
Scrolling up a few comments, I see: "There's a word for a person with a collection of Nazi memorabilia. It's 'Nazi'." I am not defending Crow. With all the valid and accurate criticisms to choose from, why make one up?
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 11:53 AM on April 12, 2023
I mean, what would you call someone who is funding the oppression and eventual genocide of groups using the exact same classifications and reasons the Nazis did?
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 11:55 AM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 11:55 AM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think I know this one....
Nazi?
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 12:07 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Nazi?
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 12:07 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
With all the valid and accurate criticisms to choose from, why make one up?
You don't need to defend him. You really don't. He has already bought and cultivated enough advocates who are yelling on his behalf across all media about how unfair it is that he's suffering the worstest slandering that anyone has ever suffered.
posted by Etrigan at 12:12 PM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
You don't need to defend him. You really don't. He has already bought and cultivated enough advocates who are yelling on his behalf across all media about how unfair it is that he's suffering the worstest slandering that anyone has ever suffered.
posted by Etrigan at 12:12 PM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
...he already has enough advocates, you say, Etrigan?
posted by Shunra at 12:23 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Shunra at 12:23 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
I am not defending Crow. With all the valid and accurate criticisms to choose from, why make one up?
I'm referring to Crow's professional defenders, from the cited Graham Wood article to the Wall Street Journal's editorial page.
They are moving the goalposts to "he isn't an actual Nazi!" because they know how bad ProPublica's portrayal makes him look, creepy Nazi collection, dictator statue garden, and all.
posted by Gelatin at 12:29 PM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm referring to Crow's professional defenders, from the cited Graham Wood article to the Wall Street Journal's editorial page.
They are moving the goalposts to "he isn't an actual Nazi!" because they know how bad ProPublica's portrayal makes him look, creepy Nazi collection, dictator statue garden, and all.
posted by Gelatin at 12:29 PM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
(By the way, his apologists point to his dictator statue garden and say it's because he "hates tyranny." Which would be well and good, except that it's fairly common for right-wing billionaires to equate "tyranny" with "being subject to taxation and regulation at all.")
posted by Gelatin at 12:31 PM on April 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Gelatin at 12:31 PM on April 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
There's a word for a person with a collection of Nazi memorabilia. It's 'Nazi'.
I said that. I'll stand by that statement, at least in spirit. But since we're splitting hairs here...
First, I confused things talking about contemporary German attitudes about Nazis and Nazi lovers. I'm out of my depth here but my guess is a careful German would not take Crow's collection of Nazi memorabilia as definitive evidence he himself is literally a Nazi. "Nazi" is a word too important to German history to use imprecisely. I'm confident that most contemporary Germans would find Crow's collection horrifying or hideous or at the very least, in poor taste. And evidence for concern that he has Nazi ideology. And quite possibly illegal to own in Germany.
Second, in the American context I think it's possible to distinguish between "Nazi", "neo-Nazi", "Nazi sympathizer", and "simply amused and fascinated by Nazis". I'm not certain exactly which of these the Supreme Court justice's buddy is. Folks in the press (and maybe here?) seem to think "amused and fascinated by Nazis" is somehow OK and significantly different from "Nazi". I do not, particularly when coupled with supporting fascism and corruption of American legal institutions.
posted by Nelson at 4:33 PM on April 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
I said that. I'll stand by that statement, at least in spirit. But since we're splitting hairs here...
First, I confused things talking about contemporary German attitudes about Nazis and Nazi lovers. I'm out of my depth here but my guess is a careful German would not take Crow's collection of Nazi memorabilia as definitive evidence he himself is literally a Nazi. "Nazi" is a word too important to German history to use imprecisely. I'm confident that most contemporary Germans would find Crow's collection horrifying or hideous or at the very least, in poor taste. And evidence for concern that he has Nazi ideology. And quite possibly illegal to own in Germany.
Second, in the American context I think it's possible to distinguish between "Nazi", "neo-Nazi", "Nazi sympathizer", and "simply amused and fascinated by Nazis". I'm not certain exactly which of these the Supreme Court justice's buddy is. Folks in the press (and maybe here?) seem to think "amused and fascinated by Nazis" is somehow OK and significantly different from "Nazi". I do not, particularly when coupled with supporting fascism and corruption of American legal institutions.
posted by Nelson at 4:33 PM on April 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
I really dislike the derail (not just here, but in the media at large) about where Crow is a Nazi or not. It makes no difference at all. He's involved in the subversion of a key American institution and if he was doing it because it an enjoyable pastime or was guided by a Ouija board, the effect is the same. Focusing on an irrelevant question allows the main issue to take secondary status and it absolutely should not.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:32 PM on April 12, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:32 PM on April 12, 2023 [10 favorites]
Yeah, the discussion shouldn't be about whether Crow is the right person to be taking Thomas on half-million dollar trips, it's whether Thomas should be disclosing those trips, and whether this is a good thing for a Supreme Court Justice.
posted by hippybear at 8:36 PM on April 12, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 8:36 PM on April 12, 2023 [7 favorites]
Not a lot of non disclosure going on around innocuous good people with only good intent who don’t want to overthrow democracy, funnily enough.
posted by Artw at 9:52 PM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:52 PM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
> Mr.Know-it-some: "Clarence Thomas’s Billionaire Friend Is No Nazi, from Graeme Wood."
Tbh, I thought the key pull quote from this article is the very first sentence (emph. added):
Tbh, I thought the key pull quote from this article is the very first sentence (emph. added):
I have never met Harlan Crow, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas’s billionaire best friend, but I have peered through the fence surrounding his estate late at night, and once I went inside and snooped around for a couple of hours.posted by mhum at 10:53 AM on April 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Billionaire Harlan Crow Bought Property From Clarence Thomas. The Justice Didn’t Disclose the Deal. (ProPublica)
A federal disclosure law passed after Watergate requires justices and other officials to disclose the details of most real estate sales over $1,000. Thomas never disclosed his sale of the Savannah properties. That appears to be a violation of the law, four ethics law experts told ProPublica.posted by Nelson at 11:38 AM on April 13, 2023 [11 favorites]
Came here to post that ProPublica link. One of the many gross parts of this revelation is that it was hard not to believe that something like this was lurking in Crow's dealings with Thomas. Now that it's out there we all know the House as currently constituted will never impeach Thomas.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 12:18 PM on April 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by gentlyepigrams at 12:18 PM on April 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's okay, he bought the house because he needs to remember how much he hates Clarence Thomas's mother.
posted by Etrigan at 1:25 PM on April 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 1:25 PM on April 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Huh, it wasn't just that he bought the house (and additional lots):
The purchase put Crow in an unusual position: He now owned the house where the justice’s elderly mother was living. Soon after the sale was completed, contractors began work on tens of thousands of dollars of improvements on the two-bedroom, one-bathroom home, which looks out onto a patch of orange trees. The renovations included a carport, a repaired roof and a new fence and gates, according to city permit records and blueprints.posted by trig at 1:34 PM on April 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Today, the block is composed of a dwindling number of longtime elderly homeowners and a growing population of young newcomers. The vacant lots that the Thomas family once owned have been replaced by pristine two-story homes. An artisanal coffee shop and a Mediterranean bistro are within walking distance. Down the street, a multicolored pride flag blows in the wind.I would've thought my opinion of Harlan Crow couldn't dip much lower, and then I found out he's a gentrifier.
posted by box at 2:58 PM on April 13, 2023
I'm Justin Elliot, one of the ProPublica reporters who just published the investigation into Supreme Court Just Clarence Thomas... ASK ME ANYTHING (reddit)
posted by Glinn at 6:10 PM on April 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Glinn at 6:10 PM on April 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm starting to think that ProPublica has a bunch of this information and is going to drip drip drip them out over time, allowing the narrative to build slowly until what is going on cannot be denied by even the most stringent believers.
That is my hope, anyway.
posted by hippybear at 7:00 PM on April 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
That is my hope, anyway.
posted by hippybear at 7:00 PM on April 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
Interesting question brought up on Mastodon -- has Clarance Thomas' mother been living rent free on Harlan Crow's property?
posted by hippybear at 7:27 PM on April 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 7:27 PM on April 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Honestly, the more I think about it the odder it gets. Who sells their parent's house to a third party when the parent is still living in it, when they have zero financial need to do so? Is this some kind of convoluted two-birds-with-one-stone Medicaid spenddown?
posted by trig at 3:54 AM on April 14, 2023
posted by trig at 3:54 AM on April 14, 2023
Who sells their parent's house to a third party when the parent is still living in it, when they have zero financial need to do so?It’s hard to avoid the idea that this is all about funneling money covertly but the sums involved are so small. In 2014, Thomas’ salary was $213k and whatever Ginni was pulling in had to be in that range – her Heritage money he “didn’t know” he had to disclose was at least $170k/year in the mid-2000s. Even if they massively overpaid for his mothers house, $133k split three ways is not much and neither are renovations measured in the tens of thousands. DC isn’t cheap but that’s still a very comfortable living with very little optimization effort.
The museum idea is kind of silly on its face but he certainly has the ego for it. I wonder whether there was some kind of health scare making them start that process then, only not to need it.
posted by adamsc at 6:43 AM on April 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
the sums involved are so small
That's almost a cliche with political corruption. Which really is so weird.
posted by trig at 6:49 AM on April 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
That's almost a cliche with political corruption. Which really is so weird.
posted by trig at 6:49 AM on April 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
It’s hard to avoid the idea that this is all about funneling money covertly but the sums involved are so small.
It's not about the amount of money per se -- Thomas doesn't care about the numbers in his bank account as long as he's comfortable. So now his mom doesn't have to worry about loud neighbors or accessibility issues anymore. It's why Crow takes the Thomases on vacations rather than cutting them a check.
The "museum" ego boost is just a bonus-slash-cover story.
posted by Etrigan at 6:52 AM on April 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's not about the amount of money per se -- Thomas doesn't care about the numbers in his bank account as long as he's comfortable. So now his mom doesn't have to worry about loud neighbors or accessibility issues anymore. It's why Crow takes the Thomases on vacations rather than cutting them a check.
The "museum" ego boost is just a bonus-slash-cover story.
posted by Etrigan at 6:52 AM on April 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Thomas' mother still lives there, per the article and also Slate's recent reporting. The article says "Crow did not respond to questions about whether he has charged her rent" so presumably we don't know. Crow's been giving Thomas hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of other gifts without disclosure, so in some sense it doesn't matter, but then I'm all about documenting corruption. I imagine the details are in Crow's company's books or maybe supporting tax documents.
hippybear, I think you're right about ProPublica's strategy of feeding out articles strategically. They've done that before, as have other investigative journalist pieces. It's shrewd, often you can get the focus of the investigation to say something untrue in response to one article that you already have another article written to refute.
posted by Nelson at 6:58 AM on April 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
hippybear, I think you're right about ProPublica's strategy of feeding out articles strategically. They've done that before, as have other investigative journalist pieces. It's shrewd, often you can get the focus of the investigation to say something untrue in response to one article that you already have another article written to refute.
posted by Nelson at 6:58 AM on April 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Even if they massively overpaid for his mothers house, $133k split three ways is not much and neither are renovations measured in the tens of thousands.
I earn significantly more than Thomas (at least on the record) and 43K plus free renovations is not a trivial amount. Not life-changing or anything, but if I were a judge it would definitely make me look favorably on the source of those “gifts.”
posted by TedW at 9:14 AM on April 15, 2023 [5 favorites]
I earn significantly more than Thomas (at least on the record) and 43K plus free renovations is not a trivial amount. Not life-changing or anything, but if I were a judge it would definitely make me look favorably on the source of those “gifts.”
posted by TedW at 9:14 AM on April 15, 2023 [5 favorites]
That's after tax money. So about equal to a middling middle class full time job's annual salary
posted by Mitheral at 9:30 AM on April 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 9:30 AM on April 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
There's still the open question about whether Thomas' mother is paying market rent. Not clear who would have the authority to compel records like that. Any reasonable justice would welcome the investigation to dispel any doubt but that seems unlikely here.
Parody: Clarence Thomas Receives New Friendship Bracelet From Harlan Crow.
posted by Nelson at 2:41 PM on April 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
Parody: Clarence Thomas Receives New Friendship Bracelet From Harlan Crow.
posted by Nelson at 2:41 PM on April 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
To be clear, I’m not saying it’s nothing but it’s a bit over 10% of the annual income we know about (280 for Clarence, 170 for Ginni). Definitely still enough to get your attention but given the sums being spent on Republican politics I’d have thought Thomas would have held out for more. I guess it just speaks to the culture of corruption where he just takes it for granted that he’ll never be unable to get more when he needs it.Even if they massively overpaid for his mothers house, $133k split three ways is not much and neither are renovations measured in the tens of thousands.I earn significantly more than Thomas (at least on the record) and 43K plus free renovations is not a trivial amount. Not life-changing or anything, but if I were a judge it would definitely make me look favorably on the source of those “gifts.”
posted by adamsc at 11:00 AM on April 16, 2023
Hearing some noise going around about how with Citizen's United equating money with speech, then we need to look at this situation with Thomas in that context. Crow is having a lot more speech with Thomas than others through his money.
posted by hippybear at 8:11 AM on April 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 8:11 AM on April 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
> given the sums being spent on Republican politics I’d have thought Thomas would have held out for more
You would be amazed at how little it takes to buy a politician off - speaking from personal experience.
(Of getting shafted by some super rich dude giving a couple of grand to just the right politician.)
posted by flug at 12:52 AM on April 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
You would be amazed at how little it takes to buy a politician off - speaking from personal experience.
(Of getting shafted by some super rich dude giving a couple of grand to just the right politician.)
posted by flug at 12:52 AM on April 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
What worries me is, the excuse every time is "Oh, gosh, I just didn't understand that regulation correctly. It's ever so complicated, you know, and how could you expect poor little me?"
"Oh my heavens, I just misunderstood the instructions on the form! Oh me, oh my! They are ever so complicated!"
For diety's sake.
This guy who can't even properly fill out a financial disclosure form is responsible for the ultimate interpretation of the entire federal code and regulations, and the U.S. Constitution, in deciding the most complex legal cases in the country.
It's not so much a question of lacking ethics as demonstrably lacking the very most basic competence as a lawyer.
posted by flug at 12:59 AM on April 25, 2023 [6 favorites]
"Oh my heavens, I just misunderstood the instructions on the form! Oh me, oh my! They are ever so complicated!"
For diety's sake.
This guy who can't even properly fill out a financial disclosure form is responsible for the ultimate interpretation of the entire federal code and regulations, and the U.S. Constitution, in deciding the most complex legal cases in the country.
It's not so much a question of lacking ethics as demonstrably lacking the very most basic competence as a lawyer.
posted by flug at 12:59 AM on April 25, 2023 [6 favorites]
More corruption in the court: Law firm head bought Gorsuch-owned property
Nine days after he was confirmed by the Senate for a lifetime appointment on the Supreme Court, the then-circuit court judge got one: The chief executive of Greenberg Traurig, one of the nation’s biggest law firms with a robust practice before the high court. ... Gorsuch did not disclose the identity of the purchaser. That box was left blank.posted by Nelson at 6:54 AM on April 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
I hope that the IRS is taking a close look at Justice Thomas' returns. Arn't some of these "gifts" from Harlan Crow taxable?
posted by interogative mood at 7:22 AM on April 25, 2023
posted by interogative mood at 7:22 AM on April 25, 2023
Just take a moment to imagine how hard Fox et al are digging through every scrap of paper they can find with Sotomayor, Kagan, or Jackson's name on it, for anything remotely shady if you look at it from a certain angle squinting hard enough. And we haven't heard about anything. They must be so squeaky clean.
posted by Etrigan at 8:06 AM on April 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 8:06 AM on April 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
Some more on how deeply Roberts cares about the perception of the Court (his reaction to the scandal is "we're fine, we don't need a stronger ethics code, and no I won't testify in Congress about that").
Linked in one of the articles: A resolution passed by the American Bar Association, of all things, back in February - i.e., way before any of this emerged - urging the Supreme Court to adopt a binding code of ethics for itself, and also urging all other bar associations in the US (federal, state, etc.) to pass similar resolutions.
That resolution, unlike Roberts, really does stress the perception of legitimacy (emphasis mine):
And on another note: Senate investigation into Brett Kavanaugh assault claims contained serious omissions.
posted by trig at 4:06 AM on April 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
Linked in one of the articles: A resolution passed by the American Bar Association, of all things, back in February - i.e., way before any of this emerged - urging the Supreme Court to adopt a binding code of ethics for itself, and also urging all other bar associations in the US (federal, state, etc.) to pass similar resolutions.
That resolution, unlike Roberts, really does stress the perception of legitimacy (emphasis mine):
An independent judiciary is the cornerstone of the rule of law and our constitutional republic. It protects the liberty of the people. Yet public support for an independent judiciary can only be sustained if there is public confidence in the legitimacy of the
judiciary. Public confidence requires that the public believe judges act ethically according to standards firmly grounded in judicial independence, integrity, and impartiality.
Essentially every judge in every jurisdiction in the United States – city, county, state, tribal, territorial, and federal – is subject to a binding code of ethics that embodies basic judicial ethical precepts with enforcement mechanisms. Justices of the United States Supreme Court (the “Court”) are not.
[...]
The absence of a clearly articulated, binding code of ethics for the justices of the Court imperils the legitimacy of the Court. More than that, this absence potentially imperils the legitimacy of all American courts and the American judicial system, given the Court’s central role enshrined in our federal republic. If the legitimacy of the Court is diminished, the legitimacy of all our courts and our entire judicial system is imperiled.
And on another note: Senate investigation into Brett Kavanaugh assault claims contained serious omissions.
posted by trig at 4:06 AM on April 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
Jane Roberts, who is married to Chief Justice John Roberts, made $10.3 million in commissions from elite law firms, whistleblower documents show
Two years after John Roberts' confirmation as the Supreme Court's chief justice in 2005, his wife, Jane Sullivan Roberts, made a pivot. After a long and distinguished career as a lawyer, she refashioned herself as a legal recruiter, a matchmaker who pairs job-hunting lawyers up with corporations and firms.posted by Nelson at 1:23 PM on April 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
SCOTUS is the only branch of US government without any sort of regulatory body. It's like, what did we think would happen? All the judges, for all time, would be honorable and entirely above board with all their behaviors, so we don't need any oversight on this group of people and their lives?
posted by hippybear at 3:31 PM on April 29, 2023
posted by hippybear at 3:31 PM on April 29, 2023
The "regulatory body" was supposed to be Congress acting under threat of impeachment. The problem is that mechanism's requirements are basically impossible to meet at this point, and if you can't do that, forget trying to apply a fix via an amendment!
The other options would involve doing things like adding seats to the court to dilute corrupt justices power, and/or making justice's lives harder by making them do things like ride circuit, cut funding to limit clerks, etc., or restricting the court's jurisdiction...but all those things require passing one or more bills and appointing justices, and we're not currently in a position to do those things either because we both lack a majority in the house, and we barely have a functioning majority in the senate, many of whom wouldn't follow through on any of these things anyway.
posted by delicious-luncheon at 5:01 PM on April 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
The other options would involve doing things like adding seats to the court to dilute corrupt justices power, and/or making justice's lives harder by making them do things like ride circuit, cut funding to limit clerks, etc., or restricting the court's jurisdiction...but all those things require passing one or more bills and appointing justices, and we're not currently in a position to do those things either because we both lack a majority in the house, and we barely have a functioning majority in the senate, many of whom wouldn't follow through on any of these things anyway.
posted by delicious-luncheon at 5:01 PM on April 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
ProPublica is an absolute master of the drip-drip-drip release:
Clarence Thomas Had a Child in Private School. Harlan Crow Paid the Tuition.
posted by Etrigan at 5:24 AM on May 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
Clarence Thomas Had a Child in Private School. Harlan Crow Paid the Tuition.
posted by Etrigan at 5:24 AM on May 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
Etrigan: You stole both my comment and nearly my exact wording.
posted by hippybear at 8:49 AM on May 4, 2023
posted by hippybear at 8:49 AM on May 4, 2023
Statement on behalf of Thomas. The substance: "Harlan Crow’s tuition payments made directly to these schools on behalf of Justice Thomas’s great nephew did not constitute a reportable gift." (Though as the Propublica article notes, Thomas reported a previous contribution for his nephew's education.) The spin: "This malicious story shows nothing except for the fact that the Thomases and the Crows are kind, generous, and loving people who tried to help this young man."
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 9:10 AM on May 4, 2023
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 9:10 AM on May 4, 2023
"Look; the bag of money was sitting on the table when I got in the room. I never touched the bag, I did not personally take it out of the room. I did count the money in the bag and discussed with my patron how the bag of money would be used to directly benefit my family member. No crime was committed with this bag of money."
posted by Nelson at 9:27 AM on May 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Nelson at 9:27 AM on May 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Harlan Crow has long been passionate about the importance of quality education and giving back to those less fortunate, especially at-risk youthHow the hell is a legal ward of a Supreme Court justice an at risk youth?
posted by Mitheral at 9:28 AM on May 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
I think Crow almost said the quiet part out loud.
posted by Nelson at 9:29 AM on May 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 9:29 AM on May 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
The other part of Thomas defense is this remarkable bit of hair-splitting
posted by Nelson at 9:30 AM on May 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
Justice Thomas was not required to disclose the tuition payments made directly to Randolph Macon and the Georgia school on behalf of his great nephew because the definition of a “dependent child” under the Ethics in Government Act (5 U.S.C. 13101 (2)) does not include a “great nephew.” It is limited to a “son, daughter, stepson or stepdaughter.”So just remember; when bribing a Supreme Court justice do not give the bag of money directly to the justice or their son. Give it to their great-nephew who lives in their house and they are raising like a son. Then it's OK!
posted by Nelson at 9:30 AM on May 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
Did Harlan have a cousin named Jim?
posted by hippybear at 9:30 AM on May 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 9:30 AM on May 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Judicial activist directed fees to Clarence Thomas’s wife, urged ‘no mention of Ginni’
Conservative judicial activist Leonard Leo arranged for the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas to be paid tens of thousands of dollars for consulting work just over a decade ago, specifying that her name be left off billing paperwork, according to documents reviewed by The Washington Post.posted by Nelson at 4:31 PM on May 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
In January 2012, Leo instructed the GOP pollster Kellyanne Conway to bill a nonprofit group called the Judicial Education Project and use that money to pay Virginia “Ginni” Thomas, the documents show. The same year, the Judicial Education Project filed a brief to the Supreme Court in a landmark voting rights case.
So, if enough people march regularly, can we drive Thomas out of office? He's obviously bought and paid for at this point, and our elected representatives won't do anything because #Republicans. But what CAN be done?
posted by hippybear at 8:03 PM on May 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 8:03 PM on May 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
It’ll make Alito have a sad.
posted by Artw at 8:41 PM on May 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 8:41 PM on May 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Judicial activist directed fees to Clarence Thomas’s wife, urged ‘no mention of Ginni’
I was going to try to summarize that article here, but there's just so much, the longer you keep reading.
Justices shield spouses’ work from potential conflict of interest disclosures (a Politico article from back in 2022)
posted by trig at 1:37 AM on May 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
I was going to try to summarize that article here, but there's just so much, the longer you keep reading.
Justices shield spouses’ work from potential conflict of interest disclosures (a Politico article from back in 2022)
posted by trig at 1:37 AM on May 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
« Older Manifesting The Muse -- Dan Carlin and Rick Rubin... | Rishi Sunak appears to miss the prison hulks of... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by nofundy at 4:34 AM on April 6, 2023 [33 favorites]