A defiant wuxia epic characterized by rapid, brutal combat

April 20, 2023 6:49 AM

Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty - the most approachable Soulslike to date [Kotaku] “The term “Soulslike” generates a specific kind of game in the mind. It conjures something that’s hard as hell, with fearsome bosses to beat, intricate levels to explore, tight combat to experience, and a world rife with enough lore to fill several tomes. You may call games in the genre alluring, unforgettable, and sometimes super cheap, but if there’s one word you likely wouldn’t use to describe Soulslikes, it’s “approachable.” Until now. [...] Wo Long is the latest Soulslike from action game aficionados Team Ninja, whose previous efforts in the genre comprise the Nioh franchise. Set in 184 AD during the Later Han Dynasty, the game tasks you with stamping out the Yellow Turban Rebellion, a peasant revolt that sought to disrupt ancient China. However, weaved into this mythically fictionalized retelling of the historical events of the Three Kingdoms period is an even greater threat than the poor, emboldened to rise up by some bad dude. Nah, it’s a mystical drug called Elixir that’s corrupting the lands, poisoning the people, and raising the dead.” [Gameplay Trailer]

• Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty brings Sekiro’s combat to a mesmerizing new world [Polygon]

“Wo Long has zero patience for ineptitude — a refrain you probably expect if you’re familiar with Nioh or Nioh 2, Team Ninja’s soul-crushingly brutal games set in feudal Japan — as well as an unwillingness to tolerate negligence. Take my battle with Zhang Liang, which could only be won when I finally internalized his attacks and movements, doled out in rapid, erratic intervals: a leap into the air and the slamming of his mace onto the ground; several hefty swings of the same weapon, whirled around like a weightless twig; and unblockable critical attacks that drained my health rapidly. To achieve victory, I need to be familiar with the game’s key maneuvers of quick ripostes, dodges, and magical spells, and be able to perform them at exactly the right moment — before my enemy seizes the upper hand. I should understand the cadence and flow of this seemingly impossible skirmish. And just when I think I’m done, I should steel myself for an even more difficult second phase. This is the sort of demanding, almost onerous practice you need to maintain to overcome the harsh encounters in Wo Long. ”

• Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty - Souls-Like Of The Three Kingdoms [GameSpot]

“The first boss fight in Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty is right up there with the toughest first bosses in video game history. This opening battle pits you against Zhang Liang of the Yellow Turbans, as you clash in a kinetic two-phase fight to the death. It's an intense skill check that challenges your prowess of Wo Long's mechanics almost immediately. In many ways, it feels like a rite of passage for the rest of the game and a bold statement of intent from developer Team Ninja. I initially loved how it forced me to adapt to the demands of the game's particular brand of Souls-like combat, yet the further I progressed, the more this feeling dissipated as I realized that this introductory struggle was little more than an unbalanced outlier, providing a much sterner test than the bosses following it. For many, this sudden difficulty spike will be a barrier to entry, halting progress a mere 10 minutes into the game. It's a shame Wo Long begins with such a sturdy roadblock, not least because this initial undertaking isn't indicative of the rest of the game moving forward. In fact, outside of this first boss, Team Ninja has crafted one of the more approachable Souls-likes in what is a traditionally challenging genre.”

• Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty Is a Thrilling Soulslike With One Glaring Flaw [Inverse]

“Wo Long’s biggest pain point is that it doesn’t give you any other options. Get good or get out, because if you can’t learn to deflect, then you won’t be able to enjoy the rest of the game’s fun features and systems. Forcing you to utilize only one combat approach ruins the fun and discourages any other play style, which is at odds with the game’s supposed design philosophy of giving you lots of choices. That first boss battle is hands-down one of the most unrelenting, debilitating, and frustrating gaming experiences in recent memory, and it left me petrified – at the time – of the challenges ahead. You can grind to level yourself up enough to make future encounters easier, though, it’s still a major issue that power-leveling feels necessary to even stand a chance against some of the game’s basic bosses. Standard foes feel appropriately challenging, which only further highlights the disparity with boss difficulty.”

posted by Fizz (30 comments total)

I hope I never get tired of videos where a rider slides their horse dramatically sideways like it's Kaneda's bike.
posted by mhoye at 7:19 AM on April 20, 2023 [5 favorites]

That last quote makes me not optimistic about this one. I bounced off of the first big boss fight in Sekiro because I couldn't get the parry timing down and just sorta gave up because there didn't seem to be any alternatives. The Souls games (haven't played Elden Ring or Bloodbourne), for their vaunted difficulty, really did give you options, and if you were not great at the timing aspect of parrying, PvE was still very manageable. Like, I dont' think you ever HAD to parry a boss, although certainly it was fun when you managed.
posted by dismas at 7:46 AM on April 20, 2023 [1 favorite]

I've been vaguely interested in this game, but honestly, the description of the first boss puts me off. I'm not sure that I have the patience to beat a boss that professional games reviewers describe as extremely difficult and frustrating.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:46 AM on April 20, 2023 [2 favorites]

Bear in mind that criticism is it’s own skill; there aren’t a lot of F1 drivers out there doing YouTube reviews of family sedans on the side.
posted by mhoye at 7:49 AM on April 20, 2023

I've been vaguely interested in this game, but honestly, the description of the first boss puts me off. I'm not sure that I have the patience to beat a boss that professional games reviewers describe as extremely difficult and frustrating.

Hmm, so I did some digging and turns out the boss is not as bad as people think, the game is just bad at informing you of a specific action you need to hit when you reach phase 2 of the boss.

• Wo Long's First Boss Is Brutal Unless You Know What To Do [Kotaku]: The internet is getting bodied by the General of Man Zhang Liang, but he's easier than you might think

“Like the first phase, attack relentlessly and deflect when the opportunity arises, especially when he unleashes his critical blow. After you’ve shaved off about 50 percent of Liang’s health, the Blindfolded Boy, a major character who accompanies you for only this first mission, will mention something about the jade talisman he gave you during the intro sequence. This trinket houses your divine beast, an ultimate attack that summons a legendary animal to aid you in battle by either performing an AOE attack or imbuing your weapons with an element such as electricity or fire. And it’s this ultimate that quickly ends the fight, as using the divine beast triggers a cutscene of Liang getting munched on.”

Also, I read that in the most recent patch, they nerfed the boss to make it a bit easier, so early reviews are not as accurate with regards to its deep difficulty. I'm not saying its easy but its easier than its been described up above.
posted by Fizz at 7:56 AM on April 20, 2023 [1 favorite]

Games are enjoyable because learning new skills releases a lot of dopamine, and completing a task, especially a difficult & worthwhile one, releases a lot of serotonin. If a game spreads out the learning too much or turns it into a painful rote-memorization scenario, and makes task completion too infrequent and too hard, the game will not succeed. I'm not saying everything has to be Candy Crush in its optimisation of neurotransmitter release, but unlike most Soulselike pretenders to the throne, FromSoftware balances these chemical rewards into their games really quite well, and is why their games have staying power where most everyone else's just fade away after a few months.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:05 AM on April 20, 2023 [1 favorite]

I've only ever heard good things about Nioh/Nioh2 and now Wo Long. It's almost always contextualized in the following way, a soulslike for fans who want more brutality/technical prowess in their soulslike. I can usually get about half-way through these games before I bounce off but I appreciate that they're trying to do something that is not just a straight up FromSoft rip. Team Ninja wants to give more options, more numbers, more depth with tinkering with the way your character engages with these massocore bosses. Not for everyone but I personally think its a bit unfair to just call this a Soulslike rip off.
posted by Fizz at 8:11 AM on April 20, 2023 [1 favorite]

It’s a solid game but it really isn’t a souls-like and it’s kinda unfair to Team Ninja to push the comparison so much. Honestly it just feels to me like a natural progression of the gameplay design ideas that they’ve been playing around with since way back in the Ninja Gaiden Xbox days.

The combat is exceptional…but I haven’t found the overall game to be as compelling as Elden Ring. On the other hand I have heard others say the opposite. So again, really seems inaccurate to act like it’s even trying to be a souls-like.
posted by Doleful Creature at 8:13 AM on April 20, 2023 [1 favorite]

You’re telling me Team Ninja made a game that could be described as approachable? I’ve beat all of From’s soulsbornes (excepting Sekiro, arguably not a soulsborne) and I found Nioh 2 to be utterly impenetrable.
posted by rodlymight at 8:28 AM on April 20, 2023

I'd like to see this specific style of game made without any "bosses" whatsoever. It's a cheap mechanic that's getting really, really, really old; any random grunt is probably significantly more dangerous than their nominal boss, both now and throughout history, so it'd be nice to have an unexpectedly/randomly hardass janitor administer a beatdown while you can just walk up and tell the boss he's lost and that's that.
posted by aramaic at 8:36 AM on April 20, 2023 [7 favorites]

I have to agree with aramaic. I'm pretty tired of bosses, especially bosses with multiple stages/transformations.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:40 AM on April 20, 2023 [4 favorites]

I have to agree with aramaic. I'm pretty tired of bosses, especially bosses with multiple stages/transformations.

The next step of game unionization is within the game. Someone get Captain N a union card.
posted by curious nu at 10:00 AM on April 20, 2023 [3 favorites]

It's a really solid game, the first boss is challenging and frustrating as there was very limited build up to how critical blocking and timing is. Once you're through that boss many (most?) downstream bosses feel easier because you've been forced to learn the fundamental mechanics to survive.
posted by iamabot at 10:20 AM on April 20, 2023

I do love the fact that FromSoft games often have common, basic grunt enemies that can still easily wreck your shit even if you’re over-leveled. I at level 150 I still enjoy testing new builds on the Gatefront goons in Elden Ring quite a lot more than fighting many of its 200+ bosses.
posted by Doleful Creature at 10:24 AM on April 20, 2023

it just feels to me like a natural progression of the gameplay design ideas that they’ve been playing around with since way back in the Ninja Gaiden Xbox days.

Amen. It's a bit disappointing that people just latch on to a recent popular game and use '[Name]like' to describe zillions of other games, that often have little in common other than being vaguely in the same genre space, or worse yet sharing similar heritage and inspiration, but one happened to come out later. We don't go around calling every FPS a 'Doomlike' do we? Or call every adventure platformer a 'Mariolike'?

Anyway, this looks fun, and I think their own description of it as a "dark fantasy Three Kingdoms action RPG" is probably more clear.
posted by SaltySalticid at 11:04 AM on April 20, 2023

We don't go around calling every FPS a 'Doomlike' do we?

I mean.. we used to! "Doom clone" or "Diablo clone" and such(like). It took awhile for the form and catalog to mature enough to get a generic label. I'm still a fan of "procedural death labyrinth" for "roguelike" but it never seemed to catch on, alas.

I haven't dug into the linked articles yet, but there was a Besties episode on this game maybe.. a month ago? It sounds like a lot of the difficulty may be the leveling mechanic, both of your character and how you can de-level the boss with proper timing/attacks to get them into an easier state.

I don't think the character creator is robust enough for what I want these days so I'll pass, but maybe I'll watch a stream~
posted by curious nu at 11:10 AM on April 20, 2023 [2 favorites]

I don't think the character creator is robust enough for what I want these days so I'll pass,

I'm curious what your criteria are for wanting a more robust character creator? Are you talking strictly in build or cosmetic/design? There's a lot under the hood and Team Ninja absolutely lets you go wild with any kind of build or look you can imagine.
posted by Fizz at 11:17 AM on April 20, 2023

Hm, I recall people saying Doom was like Wolfenstein but better, but no way 'doom clone' lasted for the twelve years it's been since Dark Souls came out. Oh well, I'll see myself out, got some clouds to shake my fist at :)
posted by SaltySalticid at 11:31 AM on April 20, 2023

re: character creator: Oh dang, I must've looked at an old video or something. They do actually have NB pronouns available? Alright, reconsidering!

but no way 'doom clone' lasted for the twelve years

T-twelve years?! Wow yeah I think FPS was getting used much quicker.
posted by curious nu at 11:36 AM on April 20, 2023 [1 favorite]

T-twelve years?! Wow yeah I think FPS was getting used much quicker.

Well, you can compare... especially when looking at FPS vs 'Doom clone' in popular conversation, I think the real turning point happened around 1998 for some reason.
posted by FatherDagon at 11:45 AM on April 20, 2023 [1 favorite]

Aaaand it looks like the armor is pretty much the same regardless of which body type you use. Part of what drove me out of Monster Hunter was just the relentless unequal cosmetic treatments.

OK! Thanks for this post, Fizz. :)
posted by curious nu at 11:47 AM on April 20, 2023 [1 favorite]

I'd like to see this specific style of game made without any "bosses" whatsoever.

Looking forward to bad guy HR flattening the hierarchy so they can identify and leverage new opportunities that were not visible before! Maybe some outside consultants can bring in some slide decks.
posted by srboisvert at 1:50 PM on April 20, 2023 [1 favorite]

Some thought after finishing the game -

1. There are valid criticisms that the combat is overly focused on deflects, however... this game has some of the best deflects I've seen, so give me more! I uploaded a few short clips - some deflects against Lu Bu using a staff (11 seconds) and some deflects against Zhang Liang using a sword (15 seconds). The animations are just gorgeous, here's one in 20% slow motion against a random mook (23 seconds) - the backflip, the counter, it's work of art.

2. It's refreshingly honest of the developers to put the tough first boss in the first few minutes of the free demo - so players can decide whether this is the kind of game they like BEFORE putting down money for it.

3. The story though, to my disappointment, makes no sense to me, and will make no sense to anyone unless you are well versed with the Romance of the Three Kingdoms. I'd like this to being dragged in to watch Avengers Endgame without knowing anything that happened prior to that - you get a large cast of 20-30 characters who mostly show up for a few seconds, say a cool line and do a cool thing and then disappear.

4. The weapons feel very underbaked. There are something like 13-14 unique weapons in the game, and they're treated mostly like weapon skins - there's functionally not much difference between using a staff or a sword. I suppose it makes balance simpler. Which is, fine, maybe that's their intent, but I did like some of the martial distinctions in the early Demon Souls game where the attack motions made a big difference, if you were in a narrow corridor you couldn't use a scimitar because the slashing motion would see you strike the wall by accident, you would be better off with a spear, but then you also get into damage types, the spear damage (piercing) doesn't do much against skeletons, for that you want bludgeoning like a mace, so it actually made sense that you carried two weapon around, and swapped between them. Or even Monster Hunter World, where the 13 weapons were like playing 13 different games entirely, which added to its replay value, whereas in Wo Long once I've finished the game with a sword here's no point doing it again with a staff because it plays the same way.

5. For how important counter-elements are in the game, there isn't enough environmental foreshadowing. So for example, when a boss infuses itself with fire magic, you can douse it with water spells. Or when they unleash a wall of fire towards you, you can douse it with water spells too. But you start the fight without knowing what type of element the boss is going to use then you restart and set up your spells again, which seems really dumb. Like, why not, when I'm approaching the boss room, I can see evidence of fire magic (burn marks, or even fire burning and smoke, or something), give me a hint, damn it. Give me more environmental storytelling and less pointless dialogue.

Wo Long had fun elements in it and was worth playing overall!
posted by xdvesper at 4:42 PM on April 20, 2023 [2 favorites]

Yeah, I enjoyed this one but agree with xdvesper: it's like they spent so much time making the second-by-second combat feel good that they forgot to finish the rest of the game.

Try as I might, I could not find a reason to use anything but regular attacks and counters, with the occasional spell to imbue an element. You'd freeze for 3 seconds to cast this big fireball and it does 300 damage... but your sword does 150 damage three times a second. Why would I bother? Ultimately I stuck with regular swords because most of the other weapons' special attacks were totally impractical - like 5 seconds long and they'd whiff half the time! The whole element thing was wasted too - probably necessary on higher difficulties but it was only explained briefly and halfheartedly.

Perhaps the weirdest part was that when you finish a level it zips you to the next one, without alerting you at all that like 5 other variant levels and challenges opened up in a hidden tab on the map screen. Ludicrous!

Definitely a "buy on sale" thing because it really is fun and cool looking to play, but man, lots of strange choices in there!
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 5:46 PM on April 20, 2023 [1 favorite]

I mean.. we used to! "Doom clone" or "Diablo clone"

Eventually we settled on "ARPG" for the latter and then someone says "what's an ARPG" and we say "you know, like, a Diablo clone"
posted by cortex at 8:57 PM on April 20, 2023 [3 favorites]

The next step of game unionization is within the game. Someone get Captain N a union card.

Coming soon (not soon enough): Wildcat! where Sabo Cat takes on all of the bosses, fighting through levels of scabs, screws, and Pinkertons) with leaping, claws, and organizing. Power Up the hands of the workers!
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:01 AM on April 21, 2023 [2 favorites]

There is Disco Elysium for good union content, but the only real fighting you do is with yourself.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:40 AM on April 21, 2023 [2 favorites]

I do a lot of work with my union, fighting with myself is definitely part of it.
posted by curious nu at 7:58 AM on April 21, 2023 [2 favorites]

There's also Hardspace: Shipbreaker for an enthusiastic (if a bit hammy) pro-worker narrative married to blue collar shipyard decommissioning/deconstruction, in SPAAAAACE.
posted by cortex at 9:07 AM on April 21, 2023 [3 favorites]

Haven't given Wo Long a shot yet, but that's just because I'm working my way through Nioh 2 for the first time (first Team Ninja game I've played in ages). Definitely planning on tackling Wo Long next, though! From the demo, besides the emphasis on parrying, it struck me as a streamlined Nioh 2 (which I can get behind).

I should add that the only reason I'm touching games like this with a ten-foot pole is due to Elden Ring. I'm classically a casual gamer type looking for relaxation and escapism in games (to that end, I've always been shameless about using cheat codes and easy difficulty where possible in pretty much any game I played). I never would've expected to be able to play FromSoft games in a way that I'd enjoy before, but I'm so glad I picked up (and have darn near beaten) ER. Easily in my top 10 games of all time, which I never would've expected before trying it. For newcomers to FS games, the open world, pick-your-own-path approach works so well, and lets you find a way to play the game that works for you.

I do agree that the term "Soulslike" is a bit reductive (and it's not quite fair to label games as such when they're excellent and unique in their own right), but I think it serves its purpose. When I hear that term, I'm expecting challenging combat, stamina management, a save system that both functions as a mini-hub and resets enemies, etc. Providing the game isn't wildly mislabeled as such (which does admittedly happen quite a bit), I find it helpful.

I’ve beat all of From’s soulsbornes (excepting Sekiro, arguably not a soulsborne) and I found Nioh 2 to be utterly impenetrable

I totally get that, but oddly enough, I've had the opposite experience - while Nioh 2 is INCREDIBLY difficult, once I got used to recovering ki and stringing attacks together, I found that I can limp my way through the missions at a fairly steady pace. I attribute that to the many, many ways you can engage with enemies (between the distinct weapons and weapon types, multiple stances, items/armor, and customizable movesets). I don't think I've ever played a game with a better, more robust combat system.

By comparison, I've been garbage at every FS game I've tried since Elden Ring, except (arguably) Elden Ring itself. I'm stuck early on in Sekiro, DS3 and Demon's Souls, and I'm just hoping I can get over the hump and experience everything these games have to offer. Case in point: In Sekiro, I've probably tried (and failed) to beat Juzou the Drunkard at least 50 times by now, and he's super early in the game. God I hate that drunk bastard so much.

Parting thought: If you're a fan of games like this, I can't recommend Iron Pineapple's Steam Dumpster Diving YouTube series enough. He's basically on a quest to review every obscure game labeled as a Soulslike on Steam. Lots of rough games, but lots of hidden gems and passion projects too. Very entertaining!
posted by kryptondog at 2:21 PM on April 21, 2023