Train length has been essential to creating record profits
April 27, 2023 8:31 PM Subscribe
As Rail Profits Soar, Blocked Crossings Force Kids to Crawl Under Trains to Get to School (ProPublica, 4/26/2023) (CW: pictures of children crawling under freight trains).
“It is never safe for members of the public to try to cross the cars,” spokesperson Connor Spielmaker said. “We understand that a stopped train is frustrating, but trains can move at any time and with little warning — especially if you are far from the locomotive where the warning bell is sounded when a train starts.”How about: It's unacceptable to not have warning bells throughout the entire length of the train, if you're going to run trains this long. More than that: if a train is going to sit motionless in an area accessible to the public, it's not safe for the train to begin moving without a visual inspection.
[...]
The company will also review its procedures to see whether its trains can give louder warnings before they start moving.
The blame for any injury in that situation lies squarely on the shoulders of the train company.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 10:27 PM on April 27, 2023 [81 favorites]
That's horrifying.
I think if a fire truck is blocked by a train, they should be allowed to use the jaws of life or any other suitable equipment to physically cut a gap through the train.
If train companies don't want this to happen, don't block crossings.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 10:46 PM on April 27, 2023 [16 favorites]
I think if a fire truck is blocked by a train, they should be allowed to use the jaws of life or any other suitable equipment to physically cut a gap through the train.
If train companies don't want this to happen, don't block crossings.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 10:46 PM on April 27, 2023 [16 favorites]
"ProPublica reporters witnessed trains in Hammond start moving without warning."
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:25 PM on April 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:25 PM on April 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
If jaywalking is gonna exist, then these trains are jaywalking as fuck.
posted by away for regrooving at 11:42 PM on April 27, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by away for regrooving at 11:42 PM on April 27, 2023 [13 favorites]
The wheels of industry literally poised to crush children in the name of profit.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:45 PM on April 27, 2023 [19 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:45 PM on April 27, 2023 [19 favorites]
They should be made to pay for a footbridge
posted by Phanx at 12:41 AM on April 28, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by Phanx at 12:41 AM on April 28, 2023 [11 favorites]
In LA, DOTD paid to fence off the Shrewsbury rail crossing. Problem solved, in their mind.
In Manchester, Houston, the community is totally boxed in.
posted by eustatic at 3:03 AM on April 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
In Manchester, Houston, the community is totally boxed in.
posted by eustatic at 3:03 AM on April 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
I saw the CW at the top of the thread and didn’t think twice about it. But that clip of the kindergartner in red ducking underneath was chilling. I can’t unsee that.
They 100% need to give audible warnings for a full minute before resuming movement - that’s the lowest possible safety barrier and I’m pretty sure it could be instated immediately. Locomotives should still have warning horns / whistles for what’s ahead on the tracks.
They should be made to pay for a footbridge
That was my first thought as well. But it won’t be enough to solve the problem of blocking emergency vehicles.
posted by Mchelly at 3:14 AM on April 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
They 100% need to give audible warnings for a full minute before resuming movement - that’s the lowest possible safety barrier and I’m pretty sure it could be instated immediately. Locomotives should still have warning horns / whistles for what’s ahead on the tracks.
They should be made to pay for a footbridge
That was my first thought as well. But it won’t be enough to solve the problem of blocking emergency vehicles.
posted by Mchelly at 3:14 AM on April 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
Another good and necessary step would be banning ultra-long trains -- anything over 300-500 metres (about 50 containers) should be flat-out illegal because it's too damn long for the engineer in front to maintain situational awareness of what's happening behind them.
Yes, this will erode profits fiercely because it will require more locomotives and crew.
Well, newsflash: the mere existence of profit does not legitimize or legalize a business model. (See also CSAM on the internet, drug cartels, etc.)
posted by cstross at 3:35 AM on April 28, 2023 [41 favorites]
Yes, this will erode profits fiercely because it will require more locomotives and crew.
Well, newsflash: the mere existence of profit does not legitimize or legalize a business model. (See also CSAM on the internet, drug cartels, etc.)
posted by cstross at 3:35 AM on April 28, 2023 [41 favorites]
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posted by evilmomlady at 4:00 AM on April 28, 2023 [23 favorites]
ProPublica is a nonprofit newsroom that produces nonpartisan, evidence-based journalism to expose injustice, corruption and wrongdoing. We were founded in 2008 to fill a growing hole in journalism: Newsrooms were (and still are) shrinking, and legacy funding models are failing. Deep-dive reporting like ours is slow and expensive, and investigative journalism is a luxury in many newsrooms today — but it remains as critical as ever to democracy and our civic life.
posted by evilmomlady at 4:00 AM on April 28, 2023 [23 favorites]
I keep seeing headlines about train disasters and loosening of regulations. Corporate power!
posted by Jacen at 4:02 AM on April 28, 2023
posted by Jacen at 4:02 AM on April 28, 2023
When I was in the 4th grade my classmate Gary Haignre was crushed and killed when he ducked under a stationary train that suddenly started moving. I don’t mind using his name, because I imagine his family wouldn’t mind knowing that someone remembers their boy, even after 40 years.
They 100% need to give audible warnings for a full minute before resuming movement
My first thought here is — it’s the poorest of poor people who live near the train tracks. This would make life so much more awful for those people. Maybe warning lights on every car?
Combining this and the increased risk of derailment with ultra-longs, the best answer is total prohibition of ultra-longs, and huge hourly fines for any train that sits stationary over a railroad crossing.
posted by Silvery Fish at 4:18 AM on April 28, 2023 [25 favorites]
They 100% need to give audible warnings for a full minute before resuming movement
My first thought here is — it’s the poorest of poor people who live near the train tracks. This would make life so much more awful for those people. Maybe warning lights on every car?
Combining this and the increased risk of derailment with ultra-longs, the best answer is total prohibition of ultra-longs, and huge hourly fines for any train that sits stationary over a railroad crossing.
posted by Silvery Fish at 4:18 AM on April 28, 2023 [25 favorites]
A blatant example of raising private profits by passing the harm to the public.
The solution to the problem is to remove level crossings, either by sinking the rail lines below road level or by raising them above.
My State Government has been doing that for 110 of the suburban commuter rail lines here in Melbourne.
NIMBYs complained that the elevated railways would destroy their privacy, allowing passengers to peer into their backyards. A few screens fixed that, and the space beneath the rail lines has been freed up to create parkland, bicycle lanes and sports courts.
But this all costs money and requires a government that prioritises people over profit. So…
posted by davidwitteveen at 5:22 AM on April 28, 2023 [17 favorites]
The solution to the problem is to remove level crossings, either by sinking the rail lines below road level or by raising them above.
My State Government has been doing that for 110 of the suburban commuter rail lines here in Melbourne.
NIMBYs complained that the elevated railways would destroy their privacy, allowing passengers to peer into their backyards. A few screens fixed that, and the space beneath the rail lines has been freed up to create parkland, bicycle lanes and sports courts.
But this all costs money and requires a government that prioritises people over profit. So…
posted by davidwitteveen at 5:22 AM on April 28, 2023 [17 favorites]
My first thought here is — it’s the poorest of poor people who live near the train tracks.
That’s not entirely true, though. I’ve lived in two mid-size midwestern cities that were cut-through with rails. When a long train came through (which was a daily occurrence) it would cut-off entire neighborhoods of all economic classes from the rest of the city.
In one of those cities, if a long train came through (sometimes even stopping) it would cut-off the state university from the nearest hospital. The next closest hospital was clear on the other side of the city. There was also a rail line running through the city on that side, too.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:06 AM on April 28, 2023 [7 favorites]
That’s not entirely true, though. I’ve lived in two mid-size midwestern cities that were cut-through with rails. When a long train came through (which was a daily occurrence) it would cut-off entire neighborhoods of all economic classes from the rest of the city.
In one of those cities, if a long train came through (sometimes even stopping) it would cut-off the state university from the nearest hospital. The next closest hospital was clear on the other side of the city. There was also a rail line running through the city on that side, too.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:06 AM on April 28, 2023 [7 favorites]
What needs to be banned here is trains being stationary on crossings. If that can't be done, the crossings need replacing with bridges, underpasses or whatever suits the area. You can't have a train that just stops on a crossing for hours, that's absolutely ridiculous.
What an absolutely messed up situation.
posted by mathw at 6:39 AM on April 28, 2023 [20 favorites]
What an absolutely messed up situation.
posted by mathw at 6:39 AM on April 28, 2023 [20 favorites]
The history of this is weird. Railroads were the original distance transport and communities were thrilled to have tracks coming through town regardless of the inconvenience. Level crossings were the only option in most places.
Now trains in the US are largely a thing ordinary people don't care about. They're almost always freight, some business that individuals are completely unaware of. And yet they still have the rights of way, the dangerous level crossings. They take up too much space. They should be removed from the cities. Europe has largely managed to do this, why not the US?
I would love to read an account of how the Brightline commuter train got recently built in South Florida almost entirely with level crossings. It's on an existing track, so I presume that's why, but now Miami and Ft Lauderdale and Boca Raton and West Palm Beach all have a train barrelling through at 100mph with nothing but some sticks and flashing lights to keep people from getting killed. The new train took 20 lives in 2022 alone.
posted by Nelson at 6:40 AM on April 28, 2023 [4 favorites]
Now trains in the US are largely a thing ordinary people don't care about. They're almost always freight, some business that individuals are completely unaware of. And yet they still have the rights of way, the dangerous level crossings. They take up too much space. They should be removed from the cities. Europe has largely managed to do this, why not the US?
I would love to read an account of how the Brightline commuter train got recently built in South Florida almost entirely with level crossings. It's on an existing track, so I presume that's why, but now Miami and Ft Lauderdale and Boca Raton and West Palm Beach all have a train barrelling through at 100mph with nothing but some sticks and flashing lights to keep people from getting killed. The new train took 20 lives in 2022 alone.
posted by Nelson at 6:40 AM on April 28, 2023 [4 favorites]
The dangerous level crossings. They take up too much space. They should be removed from the cities. Europe has largely managed to do this, why not the US?
My understanding is that (at least in Germany) the mechanics are actually the opposite way around. Freight has been disappearing from rail lines because passenger traffic produces more income and high-speed passenger trains can't share the same tracks with slow freight trains. Level railroad crossings have been removed not just because they're a danger to people but because they're also a danger to high-speed trains; you can't maintain that velocity over a level crossing without an increased risk of derailment.
posted by Slothrup at 6:59 AM on April 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
My understanding is that (at least in Germany) the mechanics are actually the opposite way around. Freight has been disappearing from rail lines because passenger traffic produces more income and high-speed passenger trains can't share the same tracks with slow freight trains. Level railroad crossings have been removed not just because they're a danger to people but because they're also a danger to high-speed trains; you can't maintain that velocity over a level crossing without an increased risk of derailment.
posted by Slothrup at 6:59 AM on April 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
You can't have a train that just stops on a crossing for hours, that's absolutely ridiculous.
And yet this is just what used to happen in the town I grew up in. Population around 40,000 people. Every weekday morning around 7:30 (or earlier, or later!) a train would come through on the tracks that literally divided the town in half and would stop for about an hour, cutting off one half of the town from the other completely. I and many others were late to school many times because of this train and there was nothing anyone could do about it. You could leave early and still get caught up in it because the train was early that day! "The train made me late" wasn't a valid excuse in the eyes of the school. Traffic would back up for miles into subdivisions. It was ridiculous. It was still happening when I graduated and moved away.
posted by Servo5678 at 7:33 AM on April 28, 2023 [7 favorites]
And yet this is just what used to happen in the town I grew up in. Population around 40,000 people. Every weekday morning around 7:30 (or earlier, or later!) a train would come through on the tracks that literally divided the town in half and would stop for about an hour, cutting off one half of the town from the other completely. I and many others were late to school many times because of this train and there was nothing anyone could do about it. You could leave early and still get caught up in it because the train was early that day! "The train made me late" wasn't a valid excuse in the eyes of the school. Traffic would back up for miles into subdivisions. It was ridiculous. It was still happening when I graduated and moved away.
posted by Servo5678 at 7:33 AM on April 28, 2023 [7 favorites]
It's unacceptable to not have warning bells throughout the entire length of the train, if you're going to run trains this long. More than that: if a train is going to sit motionless in an area accessible to the public, it's not safe for the train to begin moving without a visual inspection.
The industry is trying to go the exact opposite direction: longer trains and a single person in the cab managing the whole train. The current situation — two people, an engineer and conductor, responsible for a miles-long train — is already absurd but that apparently doesn't deliver enough shareholder value…
posted by nathan_teske at 7:45 AM on April 28, 2023 [6 favorites]
The industry is trying to go the exact opposite direction: longer trains and a single person in the cab managing the whole train. The current situation — two people, an engineer and conductor, responsible for a miles-long train — is already absurd but that apparently doesn't deliver enough shareholder value…
posted by nathan_teske at 7:45 AM on April 28, 2023 [6 favorites]
@Nelson:
> Europe has largely managed to do this, why not the US?
Because it would cost money, and in America rich people have a veto over being taxed. They have not agreed to pay for this.
> ... now Miami and Ft Lauderdale and Boca Raton and West Palm Beach all have a train barrelling through at 100mph...
No.
I have ridden the Brightline. In the area you mention it goes, maybe faster than a freight train, but it is by no means high-speed rail. I did not read the thing you linked but I am ready to bet that most of those people died because they wanted to, and the unguarded level crossing was free was of managing that for sure.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 7:59 AM on April 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
> Europe has largely managed to do this, why not the US?
Because it would cost money, and in America rich people have a veto over being taxed. They have not agreed to pay for this.
> ... now Miami and Ft Lauderdale and Boca Raton and West Palm Beach all have a train barrelling through at 100mph...
No.
I have ridden the Brightline. In the area you mention it goes, maybe faster than a freight train, but it is by no means high-speed rail. I did not read the thing you linked but I am ready to bet that most of those people died because they wanted to, and the unguarded level crossing was free was of managing that for sure.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 7:59 AM on April 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
Maybe you should read the thing I linked. Exactly two of the 2022 incidents are listed as a possible suicide. Several are cars caught at the crossing. Many of the others are pedestrians.
It's particularly awful to dismiss a comment about train safety with a "eh, the victims were probably trying to kill themselves".
In the area you mention it goes, maybe faster than a freight train, but it is by no means high-speed rail.
I mentioned the entire current running route. 100mph is the speed commonly quoted for the train, but it gets to speeds of up to 130mph in the testing north of Palm Beach to Orlando. It would be interesting to know the speed it typically travels at each level crossing.
posted by Nelson at 8:11 AM on April 28, 2023 [6 favorites]
It's particularly awful to dismiss a comment about train safety with a "eh, the victims were probably trying to kill themselves".
In the area you mention it goes, maybe faster than a freight train, but it is by no means high-speed rail.
I mentioned the entire current running route. 100mph is the speed commonly quoted for the train, but it gets to speeds of up to 130mph in the testing north of Palm Beach to Orlando. It would be interesting to know the speed it typically travels at each level crossing.
posted by Nelson at 8:11 AM on April 28, 2023 [6 favorites]
That link of accidents is horrifying. Trains scare the hell out of me.
posted by tiny frying pan at 8:21 AM on April 28, 2023
posted by tiny frying pan at 8:21 AM on April 28, 2023
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posted by May Kasahara at 8:25 AM on April 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
Thank you for the reminder; I've just set up a monthly donation. They do fantastic work, as evidenced by the posts I see here.
posted by May Kasahara at 8:25 AM on April 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
I live in the Southeast, so not a dense rail corridor, but we do have trains coming through intersections near my house. Since I don't know anything about the realities of running and switching trains, if you ask me "How long is it reasonable for a train to block any road or pedestrian crossing, whether the train is moving or stopped?" I'd say, I dunno, five minutes? Obviously not doable, but the idea of a train fucking up people's daily movement for an hour is just ridiculous. Take measurements and fine the rail operators for missing the reliability and timing targets. Or just make them pay 50% of any costs to upgrade or retrofit crossings for safety (pedestrian bridges, etc).
posted by caviar2d2 at 8:52 AM on April 28, 2023
posted by caviar2d2 at 8:52 AM on April 28, 2023
Blocking crossings for substantial periods of time is a public nuisance and often a serious danger. I've lived in several cities that make it illegal to block crossings for more than a certain number of minutes and dispense fines to the railroad for violations. After the second or third time they suddenly figured out how to not do that any more.
People in cars losing all goddamned sense when they get in the driver's seat is a separate problem. People here in South Florida have been getting in the way of Tri-Rail trains for decades. I've personally been stuck on a train for hours because of the seeming compulsion to stop on the well marked tracks that some people have. The problem here isn't the trains, it's the goddamned cars and their drivers. (Which itself has a root cause of shitty transit making car ownership damn near mandatory)
posted by wierdo at 8:54 AM on April 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
People in cars losing all goddamned sense when they get in the driver's seat is a separate problem. People here in South Florida have been getting in the way of Tri-Rail trains for decades. I've personally been stuck on a train for hours because of the seeming compulsion to stop on the well marked tracks that some people have. The problem here isn't the trains, it's the goddamned cars and their drivers. (Which itself has a root cause of shitty transit making car ownership damn near mandatory)
posted by wierdo at 8:54 AM on April 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
Separating cars and trains is good for everyone. So is separating trains from pedestrians and bikes. Particularly for kids trying to get to school.
posted by Nelson at 9:05 AM on April 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 9:05 AM on April 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
I live near a non-freight (usually - a few times one has come through) level crossing, which kids cross to get to school. In fact, the trains run behind the schoolyard, with no fence but a good 10-15 metres of dense bush in between + the field is quite large. Still, realizing my 6 yo was having recess with unfenced access to a rail line was a moment.
I can't imagine living in a situation where my child would be crawling under a stopped freight train. That's horrific. Would it not be possible to have signals and find a stopping point further out of town where trains have to stop if there's a delay further ahead? Like, even setting more regulation than that aside.
I feel so much for the school that was like "we'll change our times just please give us a schedule."
As for train crossings in general, we have good gates and loud signals and lights, but it is definitely a hazard. We've had accidents. Deer, a person who was intoxicated, and this is why I stop far back - down the line, a car was stopped at the signal and van plowed into the back of them and pushed them into the train.
Also despite the technology, occasionally I have seen crazy things. A few times the gate has come down awfully late. They're usually good about getting someone out quickly in that case but I have personally witnessed it. Also, and this is more common, occasionally the gates get stuck down and traffic backs up...I've seen a Golf maneuvre between the gates to get through and that was kind of terrifying, since, person who made that decision, if the gate is already down you don't actually know when the train is coming through. There's reasonable but not fantastic line-of-sight and sometimes the Via trains are travelling a good clip.
To be fair to trains, I've seen more regular worse behaviour from the drivers trying to get to the commuter parking lot to get their trains than at the crossing.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:21 AM on April 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
I can't imagine living in a situation where my child would be crawling under a stopped freight train. That's horrific. Would it not be possible to have signals and find a stopping point further out of town where trains have to stop if there's a delay further ahead? Like, even setting more regulation than that aside.
I feel so much for the school that was like "we'll change our times just please give us a schedule."
As for train crossings in general, we have good gates and loud signals and lights, but it is definitely a hazard. We've had accidents. Deer, a person who was intoxicated, and this is why I stop far back - down the line, a car was stopped at the signal and van plowed into the back of them and pushed them into the train.
Also despite the technology, occasionally I have seen crazy things. A few times the gate has come down awfully late. They're usually good about getting someone out quickly in that case but I have personally witnessed it. Also, and this is more common, occasionally the gates get stuck down and traffic backs up...I've seen a Golf maneuvre between the gates to get through and that was kind of terrifying, since, person who made that decision, if the gate is already down you don't actually know when the train is coming through. There's reasonable but not fantastic line-of-sight and sometimes the Via trains are travelling a good clip.
To be fair to trains, I've seen more regular worse behaviour from the drivers trying to get to the commuter parking lot to get their trains than at the crossing.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:21 AM on April 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
"The train made me late" wasn't a valid excuse in the eyes of the school."
The worst thing about this sentence is that I bet nobody reading it who ever went to school or work is very shocked.
posted by serena15221 at 9:30 AM on April 28, 2023 [10 favorites]
The worst thing about this sentence is that I bet nobody reading it who ever went to school or work is very shocked.
posted by serena15221 at 9:30 AM on April 28, 2023 [10 favorites]
I would love to read an account of how the Brightline commuter train got recently built in South Florida almost entirely with level crossings. It's on an existing track, so I presume that's why, but now Miami and Ft Lauderdale and Boca Raton and West Palm Beach all have a train barrelling through at 100mph with nothing but some sticks and flashing lights to keep people from getting killed. The new train took 20 lives in 2022 alone.We talked about that when visiting last week (my 5yo ensured we saw every train in the area) and it sounds like that existing right of way was both what made it easy to build and the problem: people were used to slow freight trains so they got in the habit of ignoring the signals but that doesn’t work well when the trains are going 50-60 mph instead of 15-20. It’s definitely not like it’s some kind of Shinkansen going faster than humans can comprehend but the usual South Florida disregard for traffic laws was prominently on display when we were there so I’m hesitant to blame anyone other than the drivers for the vehicle collisions.
The pedestrian collisions have some of that I’m sure but also the general lack of infrastructure has to be a big factor. There were a few places where we see people walking next to the tracks because the alternative was guaranteed death by SUV on a sidewalk-less road or a massive unshaded detour. That’s not to excuse the railroad but rather note that train collisions are unusual in that we actually expect the operators to prevent them rather than shrugging and saying it’s the natural order of things the way we do for cars.
posted by adamsc at 9:32 AM on April 28, 2023 [4 favorites]
I live next to several train level crossings - thankfully, they only seem to block the street for ten minutes at maximum, and I'm also rarely in a rush. But to block the street for hours seems absurd. At the least, there should be signs about how to detour around the stopped train safely, until there's a better resolution. But thankfully people don't seem to drive around the safety gates as I've seen in other US states. It's a mix of slower freight and fast passenger trains, plus the safety gates seem to have timing irregularities, so it's quite unpredictable.
My first thought here is — it’s the poorest of poor people who live near the train tracks.
Definitely not here - there are $800K condos being built right next to the tracks (welcome to California!), thankfully with quadruple-paned windows to keep out the noise. Unless you mean the unhoused who literally live on the streets adjoining the track, and every few years one of them dies from being hit by the train, a different but related problem.
Glad to hear that some non-US countries have been tackling the problem with trains head-on, by removing their level crossings. Alas, the US bias towards inertia and property rights means that train companies win by default and it takes an incredible amount of effort to change anything.
posted by meowzilla at 9:39 AM on April 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
My first thought here is — it’s the poorest of poor people who live near the train tracks.
Definitely not here - there are $800K condos being built right next to the tracks (welcome to California!), thankfully with quadruple-paned windows to keep out the noise. Unless you mean the unhoused who literally live on the streets adjoining the track, and every few years one of them dies from being hit by the train, a different but related problem.
Glad to hear that some non-US countries have been tackling the problem with trains head-on, by removing their level crossings. Alas, the US bias towards inertia and property rights means that train companies win by default and it takes an incredible amount of effort to change anything.
posted by meowzilla at 9:39 AM on April 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
I live in the Nortwest, in an area with exceptionally heavy freight traffic, and trains blocking intersections to the point where ambulances are late because they have to drive several miles around these giant combinations is just a thing that happens
posted by LastAtlanticWalrus at 10:35 AM on April 28, 2023
posted by LastAtlanticWalrus at 10:35 AM on April 28, 2023
If you have hours to kills listening to banter with some information the Well There’s Your Problem the podcast about engineering disasters has done a few episodes on the state of the American freight rail industry most recent to oldest they are:
The East Palestine Derailment.
The American Freight Rail Industry
National Rail Strike
posted by interogative mood at 11:00 AM on April 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
The East Palestine Derailment.
The American Freight Rail Industry
National Rail Strike
posted by interogative mood at 11:00 AM on April 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
My personal experience with level-grade railroad crossings is in downtown San Diego. The freight and Amtrak depots are downtown, with tracks running several miles through the edge of the city near the harbor.
I think that there is no permanent housing that is cut off when trains pass through (unless you consider luxury hotels or yachts with helipads to be housing), but the San Diego Convention Center is on the harbor side of the tracks.
Prior to the completion of the pedestrian bridge in 2011, there was no way past the freight train. Which was a disturbing thought when leaving the convention center after Comic-Con ended for the day. The crowd could be thousands of people deep, and if there was a high-rise fire, train derailment or earthquake while the train was passing, the only escape route for many miles would be to run for the harbor and swim.
It is a comfort that the city also built a new fire station on the harbor side of the tracks. Bonus- the station looks like a LEGO model.
posted by JDC8 at 12:19 PM on April 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think that there is no permanent housing that is cut off when trains pass through (unless you consider luxury hotels or yachts with helipads to be housing), but the San Diego Convention Center is on the harbor side of the tracks.
Prior to the completion of the pedestrian bridge in 2011, there was no way past the freight train. Which was a disturbing thought when leaving the convention center after Comic-Con ended for the day. The crowd could be thousands of people deep, and if there was a high-rise fire, train derailment or earthquake while the train was passing, the only escape route for many miles would be to run for the harbor and swim.
It is a comfort that the city also built a new fire station on the harbor side of the tracks. Bonus- the station looks like a LEGO model.
posted by JDC8 at 12:19 PM on April 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
I've lived in several cities that make it illegal to block crossings for more than a certain number of minutes and dispense fines to the railroad for violations.
If those cities are in the US, it's very likely that they are no longer able to impose those fines. The railroad companies have been very successful in pushing an expansive view of the ICCTA's preemption provisions (49 USC 10501) as preempting not only state-level railroad regulations but even tort claims and criminal fines for blocking railroad crossings. Here is a recent Ohio opinion that follows the trend.
Here is what looks like a pretty good law review article on the subject.
posted by Not A Thing at 12:34 PM on April 28, 2023 [4 favorites]
If those cities are in the US, it's very likely that they are no longer able to impose those fines. The railroad companies have been very successful in pushing an expansive view of the ICCTA's preemption provisions (49 USC 10501) as preempting not only state-level railroad regulations but even tort claims and criminal fines for blocking railroad crossings. Here is a recent Ohio opinion that follows the trend.
Here is what looks like a pretty good law review article on the subject.
posted by Not A Thing at 12:34 PM on April 28, 2023 [4 favorites]
"Since 2019, in Arkansas, Iowa, Kansas, Georgia, Nebraska, Virginia, Washington, Arizona and other states, lawmakers have proposed maximum lengths of 1.4 to about 1.6 miles. (There is no limit now, and trains have been known to stretch for 2 or more miles.) Every proposal has died before becoming law."
"In Hammond, for instance, police used to be able to write tickets for about $150 every time they saw a train stalled at a crossing for more than five minutes. Instead of paying the individual citations, Hammond officials told ProPublica, Norfolk Southern would bundle them and negotiate a lower payment. 'We weren’t getting anything,' McDermott, the mayor, said, 'but it made our residents feel good.' An Indiana court took the industry’s side — as many courts in other states have done — ruling that only the federal government held power. over the rails 'We can’t even write tickets anymore,' the mayor said. 'It was more of an illusion, and we can’t even play the illusion anymore.'"
Hammond, the parking lot for Norfolk Southern's Snowpiercer-length trains, will get a state-funded $14 million overpass for cars (schoolkids remain SOL). The company [NYSE: NSC; 203.03 USD; +2.03 today] is kicking in a mere half-million to mitigate the problem it's created. On Wednesday, Norfolk Southern reported an initial $387 million charge associated with the company’s East Palestine, Ohio, derailment in February.
US Freight Workers Say It's Time to Nationalize the Railroads
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:28 PM on April 28, 2023 [6 favorites]
"In Hammond, for instance, police used to be able to write tickets for about $150 every time they saw a train stalled at a crossing for more than five minutes. Instead of paying the individual citations, Hammond officials told ProPublica, Norfolk Southern would bundle them and negotiate a lower payment. 'We weren’t getting anything,' McDermott, the mayor, said, 'but it made our residents feel good.' An Indiana court took the industry’s side — as many courts in other states have done — ruling that only the federal government held power. over the rails 'We can’t even write tickets anymore,' the mayor said. 'It was more of an illusion, and we can’t even play the illusion anymore.'"
Hammond, the parking lot for Norfolk Southern's Snowpiercer-length trains, will get a state-funded $14 million overpass for cars (schoolkids remain SOL). The company [NYSE: NSC; 203.03 USD; +2.03 today] is kicking in a mere half-million to mitigate the problem it's created. On Wednesday, Norfolk Southern reported an initial $387 million charge associated with the company’s East Palestine, Ohio, derailment in February.
US Freight Workers Say It's Time to Nationalize the Railroads
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:28 PM on April 28, 2023 [6 favorites]
From a European point of view, the idea of a train blocking a crossing in anything but the direst emergency (derailment, collision etc) messes with my brain. Who the hell designs the signalling for these lines? Are there no norms and track management?
In Poland at least "no level crossings" is a prerequisite to allowing trains to exceed 160 km/h (100 mph), based on reaction times, but it's only been achieved on a couple freshly modernised lines so far. Freight trains are limited to 750 metres / 820 yards long in EU norms and even at very low speeds that makes at most ten minutes' delay as the train clears a crossing. We still have accidents, but it's mostly idiots who a, think they're faster than the falling crossing barrier, and b, once trapped inside the crossing, are somehow afraid of breaking out. There's a big campaign to let people know that from the inside, those barriers fall off with a slight tap and no damage to the car.
And nope, trains are not removed from European cities, just level crossings if possible, especially on heavy-traffic lines. Getting trains underground is best because they stop being a barrier to crossing the city, putting them high up is second best, but freight trains are too heavy to manage swift altitude changes. Most ports for example are in the middle of big busy cities, so you need to get cargo through those cities too. Honestly looking at the situation in Gdansk lately - shipping Ukrainian grain out via the biggest port in Poland, and shipping coal in - everyone wants more freight trains in the city because otherwise the trucks are blocking half the city on roads shared by cars and buses.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 12:40 AM on April 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
In Poland at least "no level crossings" is a prerequisite to allowing trains to exceed 160 km/h (100 mph), based on reaction times, but it's only been achieved on a couple freshly modernised lines so far. Freight trains are limited to 750 metres / 820 yards long in EU norms and even at very low speeds that makes at most ten minutes' delay as the train clears a crossing. We still have accidents, but it's mostly idiots who a, think they're faster than the falling crossing barrier, and b, once trapped inside the crossing, are somehow afraid of breaking out. There's a big campaign to let people know that from the inside, those barriers fall off with a slight tap and no damage to the car.
And nope, trains are not removed from European cities, just level crossings if possible, especially on heavy-traffic lines. Getting trains underground is best because they stop being a barrier to crossing the city, putting them high up is second best, but freight trains are too heavy to manage swift altitude changes. Most ports for example are in the middle of big busy cities, so you need to get cargo through those cities too. Honestly looking at the situation in Gdansk lately - shipping Ukrainian grain out via the biggest port in Poland, and shipping coal in - everyone wants more freight trains in the city because otherwise the trucks are blocking half the city on roads shared by cars and buses.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 12:40 AM on April 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
Level crossings are an awful hazard at the best is times. We're clearly not living in the best of times.
posted by Dysk at 1:26 AM on April 29, 2023
posted by Dysk at 1:26 AM on April 29, 2023
Meanwhile in Canada: Underpass to serve 20,000 residents of Pit Meadows (outside Vancouver, BC) nixed after City refuses to pay 50 million to CP to construct it. The current level crossing is blocked for up to 3.5 hours a day and CP plans to install a third track will push that to 7 hours a day.
posted by Mitheral at 5:01 AM on April 29, 2023
posted by Mitheral at 5:01 AM on April 29, 2023
Thanks for the perspective, I claim sanctuary!
In Poland at least "no level crossings" is a prerequisite to allowing trains to exceed 160 km/h (100 mph)
I went looking for the US requirements and found this document that says the maximum for a level crossing in the US is 125mph (200 km/h), or 25% faster than in Poland. There's a requirement for an "impenetrable barrier" 110-125mph and then a vague "you need some sort of warning device" for anything under 110mph.
Freight trains in the US travel much slower than 110mph. This site says they average 25-30mph and max out about 70mph. Some passenger trains in the US go faster, like the Brightline that was just opened and is killing so many people.
All of this is a bit off-topic of me: the original article is about freight trains that go 0mph, every day parked in places where people live and need to cross the train line.
posted by Nelson at 6:41 AM on April 29, 2023
In Poland at least "no level crossings" is a prerequisite to allowing trains to exceed 160 km/h (100 mph)
I went looking for the US requirements and found this document that says the maximum for a level crossing in the US is 125mph (200 km/h), or 25% faster than in Poland. There's a requirement for an "impenetrable barrier" 110-125mph and then a vague "you need some sort of warning device" for anything under 110mph.
Freight trains in the US travel much slower than 110mph. This site says they average 25-30mph and max out about 70mph. Some passenger trains in the US go faster, like the Brightline that was just opened and is killing so many people.
All of this is a bit off-topic of me: the original article is about freight trains that go 0mph, every day parked in places where people live and need to cross the train line.
posted by Nelson at 6:41 AM on April 29, 2023
My second big-news story for my hometown paper in Ohio many years ago was about a woman being rushed to the hospital after some sort of seizure dying when all three rail crossings in town were simultaneously blocked by a long freight train and the ambulance couldn't cross over. She died.
The paper's management decided not to connect the two issues because, after all, it was a heavy industrial area that created a lot of jobs, and the train was, in fact, hauling new automobiles manufactured in town. What the family of the poor woman thought didn't matter.
The town and other government agencies did manage, about 10 years ago, to finally build an overpass for the crossing on the main drag. Expensive as hell.
I live in Long Island, NY, and laugh when people here complain delays caused by a 10-car commuter train speeding by. The trains in the midwest and west are another matter entirely from what we see here.
posted by etaoin at 6:02 PM on April 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
The paper's management decided not to connect the two issues because, after all, it was a heavy industrial area that created a lot of jobs, and the train was, in fact, hauling new automobiles manufactured in town. What the family of the poor woman thought didn't matter.
The town and other government agencies did manage, about 10 years ago, to finally build an overpass for the crossing on the main drag. Expensive as hell.
I live in Long Island, NY, and laugh when people here complain delays caused by a 10-car commuter train speeding by. The trains in the midwest and west are another matter entirely from what we see here.
posted by etaoin at 6:02 PM on April 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
The ultimate problem with blocked crossings isn't even that the trains are so long. The problem is that railroads don't give a shit because they don't have to. To some degree I sympathize with their position. In almost all cases in the US the track was there before the road and often before the town/city itself. It shouldn't be entirely on them to fix planning issues.
That said, they need to be made to help the problem through operational changes that cost them little to nothing rather than exacerbating it through operational changes that make them little to no money but merely happen to be convenient. If precision scheduled railroading was what it claimed to be in the name, trains wouldn't end up waiting for other trains and often blocking crossings while they do. Sometimes trains block crossings for crew changes, but they could in most cases easily change the location where they stop for such changes. The ones that cause problems are almost always done with crew vans anyway, not at a yard. Other times the issue is bad order cars forcing them to stop, but that can easily be fixed by making them actually maintain the fucking things, which they need to do for safety reasons anyway. These are all perfectly reasonable requirements to lay on the railroads.
What's not reasonable is expecting them to pay for grade separation in every town they pass through. Not just because they were there first, but because the last thing we need is to give them another major handicap when they are absolutely essential to getting trucks off the road, which itself needs to be done for a whole host of reasons. Some trucks need to exist, of course, but they're a bigger safety menace than railroads are even with their currently fucked state. They are constantly crashing into things, killing people, and dumping their often hazardous loads everywhere. It's just that they're the diffuse kind of disaster that we often fail to see because it fades into the background noise what with being a little here and a little there. And that's not even getting into the much greater pollution burden they represent both in terms of direct impacts from particulate and other "traditional" emissions and the excess carbon emissions compared to railroads.
posted by wierdo at 1:13 AM on April 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
That said, they need to be made to help the problem through operational changes that cost them little to nothing rather than exacerbating it through operational changes that make them little to no money but merely happen to be convenient. If precision scheduled railroading was what it claimed to be in the name, trains wouldn't end up waiting for other trains and often blocking crossings while they do. Sometimes trains block crossings for crew changes, but they could in most cases easily change the location where they stop for such changes. The ones that cause problems are almost always done with crew vans anyway, not at a yard. Other times the issue is bad order cars forcing them to stop, but that can easily be fixed by making them actually maintain the fucking things, which they need to do for safety reasons anyway. These are all perfectly reasonable requirements to lay on the railroads.
What's not reasonable is expecting them to pay for grade separation in every town they pass through. Not just because they were there first, but because the last thing we need is to give them another major handicap when they are absolutely essential to getting trucks off the road, which itself needs to be done for a whole host of reasons. Some trucks need to exist, of course, but they're a bigger safety menace than railroads are even with their currently fucked state. They are constantly crashing into things, killing people, and dumping their often hazardous loads everywhere. It's just that they're the diffuse kind of disaster that we often fail to see because it fades into the background noise what with being a little here and a little there. And that's not even getting into the much greater pollution burden they represent both in terms of direct impacts from particulate and other "traditional" emissions and the excess carbon emissions compared to railroads.
posted by wierdo at 1:13 AM on April 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
There is a train line right next to where I work. And of course I have to cross it every day. The last couple years (and still occasionally) freight trains were sitting blocking the the tracks for hours at a time. The same line has another crossing maybe a quarter mile down. Thankfully there is a side road that takes you around and under the line. But that gets backed up with people trying to get around the stopped trains coupled with poorly timed traffic lights. So my 4 minute commute can turn into 15. It extra special fun when they're doing construction on that back way. That turned a 15 minute commute into closer to 25.
posted by kathrynm at 7:46 AM on April 30, 2023
posted by kathrynm at 7:46 AM on April 30, 2023
I am a bit surprised that parents help their kids cross those blocked trains. I would expect *some* parents to uncouple a few cars, then go back home with the kiddos for the day. After the railroad had to spend an (unscheduled) hour getting their train moving again every time, they’d be more concerned about blocking the crossings.
Maybe it is harder to uncouple cars than I think it is?
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 5:00 AM on May 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
Maybe it is harder to uncouple cars than I think it is?
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 5:00 AM on May 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
Maybe it is harder to uncouple cars than I think it is?
That strikes me as exceedingly difficult and dangerous for a non-railworker to do.
posted by mmascolino at 7:56 AM on May 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
That strikes me as exceedingly difficult and dangerous for a non-railworker to do.
posted by mmascolino at 7:56 AM on May 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
as a railway worker, detaching the hoses is pretty easy but unhooking the coupler not so much.
posted by onya at 11:29 AM on May 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by onya at 11:29 AM on May 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
How do the air hoses work on a train? are they fail safe? Like on a big rig truck if you cut the air hoses, then the parking brakes will turn on, on the trailer.
posted by Iax at 10:02 PM on May 1, 2023
posted by Iax at 10:02 PM on May 1, 2023
yeah same theory, loss of pressure in the brake pipe causes the brakes to come on on every car.
posted by onya at 1:00 AM on May 2, 2023
posted by onya at 1:00 AM on May 2, 2023
Also isn't there a braking/resting/idk technique that essentially balances the train over a hill, which may be such a slow grade you dont even notice. I would think disconnecting the cars would be a terrible idea for that reason too
posted by LizBoBiz at 5:19 AM on May 3, 2023
posted by LizBoBiz at 5:19 AM on May 3, 2023
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