Daniel Ellsberg, April 7, 1931 – June 16, 2023
June 16, 2023 12:23 PM Subscribe
In recent years I've enjoyed Dan's frequent appearances on the American Exception podcast with Aaron Good, frequently accompanied by his friend Peter Dale Scott. One is available on YouTube.
posted by grobstein at 1:03 PM on June 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by grobstein at 1:03 PM on June 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
My earliest political memory was sitting on my mother's lap and watching Nixon resign, and saying "I thought he said he wasn't a quitter." It's all very quaint now of course, but at the time the Watergate scandal was HUGE. Nothing like that had ever happened before.
Ever see the 4(?)-part series about Vietnam on PBS? It was very good and thorough.
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posted by Melismata at 1:04 PM on June 16, 2023 [7 favorites]
Ever see the 4(?)-part series about Vietnam on PBS? It was very good and thorough.
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posted by Melismata at 1:04 PM on June 16, 2023 [7 favorites]
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posted by May Kasahara at 1:08 PM on June 16, 2023
posted by May Kasahara at 1:08 PM on June 16, 2023
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posted by brundlefly at 1:10 PM on June 16, 2023
posted by brundlefly at 1:10 PM on June 16, 2023
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posted by robotmachine at 1:16 PM on June 16, 2023
posted by robotmachine at 1:16 PM on June 16, 2023
I saw him speak in person once. Rare treat to see a true American hero in the flesh.
posted by potrzebie at 1:18 PM on June 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by potrzebie at 1:18 PM on June 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
When this exquisite residence up in the Berkeley Hills came up for sale in 2012 I was surprised to learn that Daniel Ellsberg was a neighbor!
It was an odd break that McNamara wanted to create a post mortem project researching how we got into the Vietnam mess, and stunning that Ellsberg chose to just photocopy the damn thing and free it, and even more stunning that Nixon Admin malfeasance let him get away with it.
Always wanted to attend one of his lectures and ask him to "compare & contrast" our intervention in Korea vs. Vietnam a decade later.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 1:20 PM on June 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
It was an odd break that McNamara wanted to create a post mortem project researching how we got into the Vietnam mess, and stunning that Ellsberg chose to just photocopy the damn thing and free it, and even more stunning that Nixon Admin malfeasance let him get away with it.
Always wanted to attend one of his lectures and ask him to "compare & contrast" our intervention in Korea vs. Vietnam a decade later.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 1:20 PM on June 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
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posted by mmascolino at 1:30 PM on June 16, 2023
posted by mmascolino at 1:30 PM on June 16, 2023
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posted by gentlyepigrams at 1:44 PM on June 16, 2023
posted by gentlyepigrams at 1:44 PM on June 16, 2023
The Pentagon Papers, for those who are not familiar with their significance, stemmed from an internal study by the armed forces that came to such conclusions as:
We cannot win this war.
We (the Pentagon and the White House) are lying to the American people about that fact.
Calling up more troops will generally be a waste of lives.
It was a game changer in bringing about the end of the war.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:54 PM on June 16, 2023 [35 favorites]
We cannot win this war.
We (the Pentagon and the White House) are lying to the American people about that fact.
Calling up more troops will generally be a waste of lives.
It was a game changer in bringing about the end of the war.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:54 PM on June 16, 2023 [35 favorites]
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posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 2:01 PM on June 16, 2023
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 2:01 PM on June 16, 2023
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posted by Winnie the Proust at 2:05 PM on June 16, 2023
posted by Winnie the Proust at 2:05 PM on June 16, 2023
“In his final days, surrounded by so much love from so many people, Daniel joked, ‘If I had known dying would be like this, I would have done it sooner …’"
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posted by riverlife at 2:17 PM on June 16, 2023 [15 favorites]
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posted by riverlife at 2:17 PM on June 16, 2023 [15 favorites]
My dad was an acquaintance of him, and one of my most prized possessions is a copy of his memoir that Mr. Ellsberg once inscribed some very important words, to me and just for me.
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posted by Jarcat at 2:22 PM on June 16, 2023 [17 favorites]
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posted by Jarcat at 2:22 PM on June 16, 2023 [17 favorites]
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posted by snuffleupagus at 2:33 PM on June 16, 2023
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:33 PM on June 16, 2023
Big damn hero. Rest in power, sir.
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posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 2:37 PM on June 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
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posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 2:37 PM on June 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
It was a game changer in bringing about the end of the war.
and in doing so, it saved a huge number of lives, many of them American, the vast majority Vietnamese.
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posted by philip-random at 2:54 PM on June 16, 2023 [9 favorites]
and in doing so, it saved a huge number of lives, many of them American, the vast majority Vietnamese.
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posted by philip-random at 2:54 PM on June 16, 2023 [9 favorites]
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posted by kitten kaboodle at 2:58 PM on June 16, 2023
posted by kitten kaboodle at 2:58 PM on June 16, 2023
>It was a game changer in bringing about the end of the war.
>and in doing so, it saved a huge number of lives, many of them American, the vast majority Vietnamese.
? "not really" to both of those IMO. I think the institutional US commitment cracked in mid-1969 after Hamburger Hill demonstrated to the brass and Nixon that Westmoreland's attrition strategy was lowering US combat effectiveness more than the enemy's. Nixon wanted 'Vietnamization" after that, and the US KIA count after 1969 reflected our ongoing withdrawal from ground combat:
1964: 216
1965: 1,928
1966: 6,350
1967: 11,363
1968: 16,899
1969: 11,780
1970: 6,173
1971: 2,414
1972: 759
1972 saw massive PAVN offensives across the DMZ toward Hue, out of Laos toward Pleiku, and out of Cambodia toward Saigon, but were fought against by the South Vietnamese with loads of technical and air support from the remaining US forces (public opposition was stoked by Tet '68 and the ensuing year of heavy combat the communist forces provoked).
The true power of the Pentagon Papers was its unvarnished, scholarly, no-spin exploration of what the hell happened ~1945 - ~65.
During this part of the 1970s I was more focussed on my Big Wheel and GI Joe doll collection so I could be wrong about this . . . I guess it could be said that the Pentagon Papers did push Congress to scale back our military support for the Saigon regime to the bare minimum after the peace agreement was reached in '73 . . .
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 3:16 PM on June 16, 2023 [7 favorites]
>and in doing so, it saved a huge number of lives, many of them American, the vast majority Vietnamese.
? "not really" to both of those IMO. I think the institutional US commitment cracked in mid-1969 after Hamburger Hill demonstrated to the brass and Nixon that Westmoreland's attrition strategy was lowering US combat effectiveness more than the enemy's. Nixon wanted 'Vietnamization" after that, and the US KIA count after 1969 reflected our ongoing withdrawal from ground combat:
1964: 216
1965: 1,928
1966: 6,350
1967: 11,363
1968: 16,899
1969: 11,780
1970: 6,173
1971: 2,414
1972: 759
1972 saw massive PAVN offensives across the DMZ toward Hue, out of Laos toward Pleiku, and out of Cambodia toward Saigon, but were fought against by the South Vietnamese with loads of technical and air support from the remaining US forces (public opposition was stoked by Tet '68 and the ensuing year of heavy combat the communist forces provoked).
The true power of the Pentagon Papers was its unvarnished, scholarly, no-spin exploration of what the hell happened ~1945 - ~65.
During this part of the 1970s I was more focussed on my Big Wheel and GI Joe doll collection so I could be wrong about this . . . I guess it could be said that the Pentagon Papers did push Congress to scale back our military support for the Saigon regime to the bare minimum after the peace agreement was reached in '73 . . .
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 3:16 PM on June 16, 2023 [7 favorites]
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posted by clavdivs at 3:55 PM on June 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by clavdivs at 3:55 PM on June 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
My earliest political memory was sitting on my mother's lap and watching Nixon resign
I wasn't sitting my mother's lap, but my earliest political memory is being sat in front of the television and being told "watch this, it's important".
It was many years later when I actually learned what I'd seen. It's been like peeling an onion for me across the decades.
Interesting comparison contrast involving the First Amendment press exemption to the Espionage Act. That and the anonymity of the source for so many decades kept anyone from being prosecuted for this even though they wanted to. Oh. So. Badly.
posted by hippybear at 4:06 PM on June 16, 2023 [7 favorites]
I wasn't sitting my mother's lap, but my earliest political memory is being sat in front of the television and being told "watch this, it's important".
It was many years later when I actually learned what I'd seen. It's been like peeling an onion for me across the decades.
Interesting comparison contrast involving the First Amendment press exemption to the Espionage Act. That and the anonymity of the source for so many decades kept anyone from being prosecuted for this even though they wanted to. Oh. So. Badly.
posted by hippybear at 4:06 PM on June 16, 2023 [7 favorites]
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posted by jim in austin at 4:25 PM on June 16, 2023
posted by jim in austin at 4:25 PM on June 16, 2023
A gutsy man. He knew he was setting loose a whirlwind but let fly anyways.
Equally important to me is his straight-up 100% support of Edward Snowden, a hero for our own time. Snowden caused the liars that run this show much more grief than Ellsberg did -- how I loved/love that even our "friends" phones and data lines were all tapped, and that our leaders were confronted on this, and no way out.
For whatever reason the look on Angela Merkel's face when she learned the deeper truth about Kissinger's line "America doesn't have friends, she only has interests." -- Merkel about looked like she was in shock. The whole thing was just beautiful. And Ellsberg gave Snowden the credit he's due.
A life lived well, the man had guts.
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posted by dancestoblue at 7:06 PM on June 16, 2023 [19 favorites]
Equally important to me is his straight-up 100% support of Edward Snowden, a hero for our own time. Snowden caused the liars that run this show much more grief than Ellsberg did -- how I loved/love that even our "friends" phones and data lines were all tapped, and that our leaders were confronted on this, and no way out.
For whatever reason the look on Angela Merkel's face when she learned the deeper truth about Kissinger's line "America doesn't have friends, she only has interests." -- Merkel about looked like she was in shock. The whole thing was just beautiful. And Ellsberg gave Snowden the credit he's due.
A life lived well, the man had guts.
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posted by dancestoblue at 7:06 PM on June 16, 2023 [19 favorites]
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posted by flabdablet at 7:18 PM on June 16, 2023
posted by flabdablet at 7:18 PM on June 16, 2023
This amazing passage about the effects of security clearances on people, from Ellsberg's book Secrets, has being doing the rounds on Twitter and Mastodon:
https://infosec.exchange/@agreenberg/110555615734675842
posted by riddley at 8:17 PM on June 16, 2023 [34 favorites]
https://infosec.exchange/@agreenberg/110555615734675842
posted by riddley at 8:17 PM on June 16, 2023 [34 favorites]
What a great piece, riddley, thank you for that.
posted by dancestoblue at 8:52 PM on June 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by dancestoblue at 8:52 PM on June 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
This amazing passage about the effects of security clearances on people, from Ellsberg's book Secrets, has being doing the rounds on Twitter and Mastodon:
https://infosec.exchange/@agreenberg/110555615734675842
I just clipped this same passage into my notes (was perusing old Ellsberg threads here) earlier today.
Very strong stuff.
posted by grobstein at 9:15 PM on June 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
https://infosec.exchange/@agreenberg/110555615734675842
I just clipped this same passage into my notes (was perusing old Ellsberg threads here) earlier today.
Very strong stuff.
posted by grobstein at 9:15 PM on June 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
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posted by JoeXIII007 at 9:30 PM on June 16, 2023
posted by JoeXIII007 at 9:30 PM on June 16, 2023
That passage, Daniel Ellsberg's advice to Henry Kissinger, is the best explanation of what happened to Obama after he got elected. Obama ran as the well-read professor who studied the world and drew reasonable conclusions about what should be done. He read the Atlantic and the Economist and Foreign Affairs and all those long articles by specialists and all the big well-recommended nonfiction books reviewed by the New York Times Book Review. And he was very clear about his beliefs and intentions in his speeches, which were easy to agree with because we liberals all got our opinions the same way.
And then he got in the White House and he didn't do the things he said he would. The new broom didn't sweep clean, it started deferring to the status quo. That's what Ellsberg is talking about: if you're someone who worships expertise, then getting access to the mass of top secret documents is pretty humbling. All of a sudden Obama realized that he'd been ignorant, pronouncing his opinions based on inadequate information, which is absolutely mortifying if you're the sort of guy he was. And so -- somehow we elected our guy and yet he didn't get us out of the Endless War immediately.
What Ellsberg is really saying is that it's easy to get snowed by all that inside intel. Behind those top secret documents are the hands of people in power who, like all writers, are trying to shape the way their readers think. But it can take years to figure that out.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 10:39 PM on June 16, 2023 [36 favorites]
And then he got in the White House and he didn't do the things he said he would. The new broom didn't sweep clean, it started deferring to the status quo. That's what Ellsberg is talking about: if you're someone who worships expertise, then getting access to the mass of top secret documents is pretty humbling. All of a sudden Obama realized that he'd been ignorant, pronouncing his opinions based on inadequate information, which is absolutely mortifying if you're the sort of guy he was. And so -- somehow we elected our guy and yet he didn't get us out of the Endless War immediately.
What Ellsberg is really saying is that it's easy to get snowed by all that inside intel. Behind those top secret documents are the hands of people in power who, like all writers, are trying to shape the way their readers think. But it can take years to figure that out.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 10:39 PM on June 16, 2023 [36 favorites]
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posted by Lesser Spotted Potoroo at 11:07 PM on June 16, 2023
posted by Lesser Spotted Potoroo at 11:07 PM on June 16, 2023
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posted by wicked_sassy at 4:46 AM on June 17, 2023
posted by wicked_sassy at 4:46 AM on June 17, 2023
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posted by Rustic Etruscan at 5:44 AM on June 17, 2023
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 5:44 AM on June 17, 2023
A hero - and much hated at the time.
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posted by doctornemo at 9:33 AM on June 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
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posted by doctornemo at 9:33 AM on June 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
Ellsberg’s quote also maybe explains the T-Man’s present legal difficulties, to some extent.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 10:45 AM on June 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 10:45 AM on June 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
I gave him a Pepsi at an anti war rally in the early 90s in DC so he could take some medicine.
posted by PHINC at 11:02 AM on June 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by PHINC at 11:02 AM on June 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
What Ellsberg is really saying is
I know it's not cool these days to speak of a "Deep State" but if that's not what Ellsberg is describing there, then I suspect we need to discuss definitions.
I'm not talking about grey aliens who can only sustain themselves with adrenochrome from murdered children and Tom Hanks is their leader. I do think it's entirely plausible that there are players (un-elected) who represent the so-called military industrial complex (etc) and yes, they have more than just the ear of the President. They aren't particularly racist. They aren't particularly sexist, homophobic, or even anti-trans. They aren't necessarily Republicans. But they have a lot of wheels in motion, they're heavily invested in a lot of complex initiatives which have long been playing out and they're not about to let some new guy who happens to be popular with a lot of normal everyday people step in and fuck everything up.
That's not how power works.
posted by philip-random at 11:28 AM on June 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
I know it's not cool these days to speak of a "Deep State" but if that's not what Ellsberg is describing there, then I suspect we need to discuss definitions.
I'm not talking about grey aliens who can only sustain themselves with adrenochrome from murdered children and Tom Hanks is their leader. I do think it's entirely plausible that there are players (un-elected) who represent the so-called military industrial complex (etc) and yes, they have more than just the ear of the President. They aren't particularly racist. They aren't particularly sexist, homophobic, or even anti-trans. They aren't necessarily Republicans. But they have a lot of wheels in motion, they're heavily invested in a lot of complex initiatives which have long been playing out and they're not about to let some new guy who happens to be popular with a lot of normal everyday people step in and fuck everything up.
That's not how power works.
posted by philip-random at 11:28 AM on June 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
This amazing passage about the effects of security clearances on people, from Ellsberg's book Secrets, has being doing the rounds on Twitter and Mastodon:
https://infosec.exchange/@agreenberg/110555615734675842
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Am I reading it right that the joke is that "Kissinger doesn't have any clearances, of course" (e.g. he may just well be laughing at me for believing that he doesn't). That's the joke, right?
posted by symbioid at 12:01 PM on June 17, 2023
https://infosec.exchange/@agreenberg/110555615734675842
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Am I reading it right that the joke is that "Kissinger doesn't have any clearances, of course" (e.g. he may just well be laughing at me for believing that he doesn't). That's the joke, right?
posted by symbioid at 12:01 PM on June 17, 2023
Erik Loomis's obit is (as usual) a solid read.
posted by General Malaise at 1:04 PM on June 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by General Malaise at 1:04 PM on June 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Am I reading it right that the joke is that "Kissinger doesn't have any clearances, of course" (e.g. he may just well be laughing at me for believing that he doesn't). That's the joke, right?
Ellsberg had this conversation with Kissinger when Kissinger had been nominated to be National Security Advisor in 1969. Before that, Kissinger had been an academic; while he had some level of security clearance and access to classified information, he was about to gain access to tremendously more information than he had ever had before. There isn't really a joke per se, just an observation that people who gain access to these highest corridors of power tend to get jaded about the possibility that anyone else could possibly tell them anything.
posted by Etrigan at 2:23 PM on June 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ellsberg had this conversation with Kissinger when Kissinger had been nominated to be National Security Advisor in 1969. Before that, Kissinger had been an academic; while he had some level of security clearance and access to classified information, he was about to gain access to tremendously more information than he had ever had before. There isn't really a joke per se, just an observation that people who gain access to these highest corridors of power tend to get jaded about the possibility that anyone else could possibly tell them anything.
posted by Etrigan at 2:23 PM on June 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Loomis can't resist making Ellsberg's death about how he's smarter than him cuz he's not "obsessed by [a] single issue." Stuff in the comments is really vile though.
posted by grobstein at 2:28 PM on June 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by grobstein at 2:28 PM on June 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Watergate happened when I was about 8-10 years old, and although I didn’t understand it very well at the time, it was obviously a big topic of conversation among the adults around me (as well as causing my usual after-school TV shows to be pre-emptied by hearings). And although the name “Ellsberg” and “The Pentagon Papers” kept coming up I really had no idea what they meant. Fast forward a few years to college and I began learning what happened and took it upon myself to read a lot about the topic. I really came to appreciate Ellsberg and the efforts (bumbling though they were) by the Nixon administration to silence him. I’m pretty sure I have his book “Secrets”, excerpted above, somewhere. I need to find and reread it. We desperately need more Marines like him.
posted by TedW at 3:58 PM on June 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by TedW at 3:58 PM on June 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
The Most Dangerous Man in America (kanopy, vimeo)[1,2,3,4,5,6]
"I work better under a deadline. It turns out that I live better under a deadline." -Daniel Ellsberg
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posted by kliuless at 9:41 AM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
"I work better under a deadline. It turns out that I live better under a deadline." -Daniel Ellsberg
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posted by kliuless at 9:41 AM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
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posted by gusandrews at 1:46 PM on June 18, 2023
posted by gusandrews at 1:46 PM on June 18, 2023
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posted by Mutant Lobsters from Riverhead at 3:37 PM on June 19, 2023
posted by Mutant Lobsters from Riverhead at 3:37 PM on June 19, 2023
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