It's got Zathras, but I hope Zathras is in it, too. And Zathras.

June 17, 2023 1:13 AM

The trailer for the next installment of the Babylon 5 saga has arrived: The Road Home. Much of the surviving cast returns, with Bruce Boxleitner, Claudia Christian, Peter Jurasik, Bill Mumy, Tracy Scoggins, and Patricia Tallman all reprising their iconic characters.
posted by The Great Big Mulp (46 comments total)

No on listens to Zathras.
posted by Faintdreams at 1:54 AM on June 17, 2023 [24 favorites]

Baylon Leap?! I must admit i am curious, the animation seems very uneven (erring towards basic) from the trailer, but I'm willing to give it a chance. I better rewatch B5 real quick to refresh my memory..
posted by Iteki at 2:08 AM on June 17, 2023 [5 favorites]

Sad how so much of the original cast aren’t left to reprise their roles. Looks OK but it’s a weird choice to do an animated movie now.
posted by brilliantmistake at 2:26 AM on June 17, 2023 [5 favorites]

I would imagine it's animated both because of the time between the original and now (unless they go the way of Picard with aged characters). And/or also because anything made in the last 3 years (particularly started in 2020 & 2021) will have been thinking about Covid on set.. so in a covid sense, easier and safer to make an animated movie with the voices of the original actors, where animators and voice actors can also work from home or smaller recording / editing studios.

They were probably looking at back catalogues to see what could be revived in this way.

But this is all speculation of course.
posted by many-things at 2:56 AM on June 17, 2023 [9 favorites]

Was that, like, Kari Wahlgren doing the voice of the computer in there?
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:35 AM on June 17, 2023

No Kosh?
posted by wittgenstein at 4:42 AM on June 17, 2023 [3 favorites]

My weekly nerdwatch group convinced us to start Babylon 5 this year, and we're just about to finish season 1. It is truly bonkers, in the best way. I mean, it's painfully 90s in ways that haven't always aged well. But I love that it leans equally hard into its Serious Social Issue side AND into its Camp Ridiculousness side and finds ways to cross-pollinate between them. While I enjoy a well-made dead-serious sci-fi vehicle (The Expanse, 2001), camp has such a history with the genre and Star Wars and Star Trek both get annoying when people take them so seriously they can't admit to the camp elements that are RIGHT THERE on its face.

The cheapness of the sets, the melodramatic speeches, the weird pseudo-historical costume choices, the "alien" hairstyles, Londo's Dracula voice. It all screams "This can't work! DO NOT take this show seriously!" And yet. And yet.
posted by rikschell at 4:49 AM on June 17, 2023 [24 favorites]

Oh man, I envy you your first watch. It gets so much better in the next few seasons, although there's a little weirdness where they thought they were getting canceled and tried to wrap everything up in season 4...and then oops, here's season 5. Still great, though. No spoilers, but keep an eye on the relationship between Londo and G'Kar.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 5:19 AM on June 17, 2023 [16 favorites]

So, does this make it some deep space franchise?
posted by Hactar at 5:24 AM on June 17, 2023 [4 favorites]

The Paramount Corporation disavows any knowledge of the similarities between any of its science-fiction properties and Babylon 5, unless you manage to find a copy of any documents the Paramount Corporation didn't manage to shred
posted by Merus at 5:30 AM on June 17, 2023 [10 favorites]

Season 1 is cringy but displays lots of potential in places. Season 2 following "Coming of Shadows" (which is a nearly perfect episode) and Season 3 are excellent. Season 4 tries but doesn't quite stick the landing. Season 5 is hot garbage. Crusade was dumb and franchise bait.

I personally think the series never quite knew where to go after the Season 3 finale. It was too good of an episode and once everything the show had been building up to finally hit the fan what followed seemed.....kind of underwhelming.

Babylon 5 was great when things were looming. It was atmospheric and dark and moody and always aware that the currents of history were flowing just below the surface. While it's great that the show actually had a long-planned resolution and JMS wasn't just jerking us around like some other creator, I honestly think he should have stepped aside and let someone else do the back half.

Everyone's fond of blaming "network interference" for seasons 4 and 5, but this trailer makes me think network interference isn't entirely to blame.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:46 AM on June 17, 2023 [2 favorites]

Though the appearance of G'Kar at the end of the trailer gives me goosebumps, even if he is played by someone else.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:49 AM on June 17, 2023 [5 favorites]

I would imagine it's animated both because of the time between the original and now (unless they go the way of Picard with aged characters

I mean, half the original cast is dead. Maybe more than half.
posted by rhymedirective at 6:03 AM on June 17, 2023 [1 favorite]

I mean, half the original cast is dead. Maybe more than half.

It's true. We've lost a lot of truly great people (Mira, rest in peace) and some not-so-great people (Jerry, your career in right-wing radio did the world no favors) who worked on that show. I know the theory that everyone was poisoned by toxic chemicals in the soundstage walls has been debunked, but what other hypotheses do we have? Some kind of curse?
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:55 AM on June 17, 2023 [1 favorite]

Zoot zoot!
posted by Captaintripps at 7:13 AM on June 17, 2023 [5 favorites]

Faint of Butt, it was probably the Zima.
posted by kokaku at 7:29 AM on June 17, 2023 [8 favorites]

Not what I was expecting and yet I'm going to watch it.
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:52 AM on June 17, 2023 [1 favorite]

I blame Jinxo.
posted by rikschell at 7:59 AM on June 17, 2023 [3 favorites]

Aw, hells yeah!
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 8:19 AM on June 17, 2023 [1 favorite]

I'm glad Straczynski has returned to B5 as a mature writer. At its best, the series is poetry on a cosmic scale. But there are many episodes where Straczynski would have benefited from a writers' room (like, ANYTHING to do with sexual attraction).

Hopefully if the series gets the rumoured reboot, WGA rules (currently being negotiated) will mandate that he have one.
posted by Pallas Athena at 8:51 AM on June 17, 2023 [5 favorites]

I know the theory that everyone was poisoned by toxic chemicals in the soundstage walls has been debunked, but what other hypotheses do we have? Some kind of curse?

I think it's just coincidence/confirmation bias in action.

To take that other space show as an example, IMO it's more odd that so many of the TOS actors lived to be 80+ years old, especially considering they had a lot of the same life-shortening additions (smoking, alcoholism) as some of the B5 cast.

The youngest when they died (Majel Barrett) was 76!
posted by rhymedirective at 9:08 AM on June 17, 2023 [4 favorites]

"This can't work!"

And yet it did, and does.
posted by doctornemo at 9:30 AM on June 17, 2023

Billy Pilgrim John Sheridan has come unstuck in time.
posted by nathan_teske at 9:43 AM on June 17, 2023 [4 favorites]

Nathan_teske beat me to it.
[Slaughterhouse|Babylon] 5.
posted by adamrice at 10:07 AM on June 17, 2023 [3 favorites]

I just hope they avoid B5: Multiverse of Fan Service
posted by kokaku at 10:10 AM on June 17, 2023 [1 favorite]

What, 25 comments and not one Sliders reference?

...that's ok, I can't think of one, either.
posted by Kyol at 10:37 AM on June 17, 2023 [2 favorites]

No Kosh?

Kosh has always been here.

If the alternate timelines involves losing the Shadow War to the point that the Shadows are ascendant, I assume it means the Vorlons either left the galaxy on their own or got wiped out. That being said, Kosh also made use of dreams to communicate in forms other than its own, so anyone appearing in this trailer could be Kosh.

I'm a huge B5 fan, and I'm a little disappointed by this trailer...it just feels fan-servicey (quotes from old episodes! all the familiar characters, including favorites like Zathras who only show up in 3 episodes! Time travel so we can revisit certain key moments!). Was hoping for something more forward looking,
posted by nubs at 11:11 AM on June 17, 2023 [2 favorites]

[Slaughterhouse|Babylon] 5.

The "unstuck in time" phrase was used on B5 in the very few episodes that dealt with time travel and it was acknowledged as coming from Vonnegut.
posted by nubs at 11:13 AM on June 17, 2023 [7 favorites]

Well, huh. I see it's written by J. Michael Straczynski. I remember when I devoured anything written by him. Not sure if my Babylon 5 memory-brain can make the jump to animation, but I'll sure give it a listen. Thanks for posting!
posted by Silvery Fish at 11:36 AM on June 17, 2023 [1 favorite]

Yeah, original 90s B5 was limited-budget sets, quirky early CGI spacecrafts, and slow set-up kinda profound scripts about facing adversity, which really resonated with me back then when I was going through some personal struggles, and waiting every week for the next episode. That was a time and place. (Ugh, Crusade was so lame).

Re-inventing that scenario now is uh something. Hope the youth like it.
posted by ovvl at 5:43 PM on June 17, 2023 [1 favorite]

I knew this was coming, and I’m quite excited about the series. Just seeing Susan Ivanova in new scenes was worth it! Having the trailer made by GNN was great, too. And yes, considering this is post-Sense8, I have great hopes that Straczynski has new and insightful stories to tell.
posted by Flight Hardware, do not touch at 5:49 PM on June 17, 2023 [5 favorites]

Somehow the 90s CGI never bothered me, even on my last rewatch in the early 2010s. It was artificial enough for me to suspend disbelief like watching a play on stage, where 00s to 10s stuff was just glossy enough to look fake, if you will.
posted by Flocculencio at 3:38 AM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]

Ah yes, the NewTek Video Toaster did the CGI. I wish I had tried to get an internship/job with them. I walked past the alley where their HQ was almost daily. They made lots of Amiga software/hardware for well TV worthy graphics in the early 90's.
posted by zengargoyle at 5:37 AM on June 18, 2023 [3 favorites]

So, this is not the G’Kar/Lyta road-trip show of my dreams?
posted by Thorzdad at 7:10 AM on June 18, 2023 [3 favorites]

> Season 5 is hot garbage.

The first half of Season 5 was cold garbage. "Hot" would mistakenly imply that there was some energy there.

The second half was decent with a few really good parts, though. Same sort of distribution as but better overall than season 1. I envy the group who's finished Season 1 and still raring to go; your perseverance is about to pay off.
posted by roystgnr at 10:28 AM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]

I'm with RonButNotStupid. From about mid-season 2 to mid-season 3 was genuinely good epic science fiction with flashes of greatness even. Season 4 on can be skipped, except it is worth watching the finale, and frankly season 1 can be skipped too. But even a season or two that mostly stuck the landing is pretty good for 90s TV scifi.
posted by tavella at 12:57 PM on June 18, 2023

It's pretty easy to create a "must see" short list for S1 and early S2. Mid S2 through S3 is all pretty good I think; S4 is uneven and rushed, sadly, and even as a huge B5 fan, I can say I only watched S5 once and really have limited memory of it. (For anyone watching for the first time: "Grey 17 is Missing" is one to absolutely skip)

So much of the payoffs come from the changes in the characters and their relationships, though, that I think sometimes you need to put up with the slog through some slow episodes for the character knowledge. I have no doubt a good writers room now could break the overall arcs and themes of B5 down into a much tighter, highly focused show...but that wasn't the model at the time, where there was a goal of syndication. Also, it is worth noting that for the time, having a SF show that had an overall arc and characters that changed over time was pretty different from the primarily episodic nature of most shows overall.
posted by nubs at 8:32 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]

Bruce Boxleitner, Claudia Christian, Peter Jurasik, Bill Mumy, Tracy Scoggins, and Patricia Tallman

I really like how all the actors from an unfamiliar TV show sound (and frequently look) like made-up people.
posted by grobstein at 9:25 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]

From the end of Season 1 to the end of Season 4, the show was really great, with a few lousy episodes in the mix. Season 5, it all went off the rails and it was so horrible. And Claudia Christian left, which hurt a lot. The Season 4 closer, when they thought the show wouldn't be renewed, was a spectacular episode and should have been the ending.

But the show gave us so much--Walter Koenig's leap from Chekov to the fantastically evil Bester, Stephen Furst as the wondeful Vir Cotto, Bill Mumy's return to scifi, Penn & Teller, Zathras, the Shadow War. And G'Kar and Londo were the stars; the greatest enemies to friends relationship ever. Andreas Katsulas, under all his makeup, was the most wonderfully expressive actor. And he found the perfect costar in Peter Jurasik.

When it was good, it was very very good.
posted by ceejaytee at 6:28 AM on June 19, 2023 [3 favorites]

My short list of the S1 episodes that should be watched:

Midnight on the Firing Line
Soul Hunter*
Mind War
The Parliament of Dreams*
And the Sky Full of Stars
Signs and Portents
A Voice in the Wilderness Pts 1 & 2
Babylon Squared
Chrysalis

*maybe these could be skipped, but they contain a couple of (IMO) key moments that become important later on.

But the show gave us so much--Walter Koenig's leap from Chekov to the fantastically evil Bester, Stephen Furst as the wondeful Vir Cotto, Bill Mumy's return to scifi, Penn & Teller, Zathras, the Shadow War. And G'Kar and Londo were the stars; the greatest enemies to friends relationship ever. Andreas Katsulas, under all his makeup, was the most wonderfully expressive actor. And he found the perfect costar in Peter Jurasik.

So many great moments and people. The G'Kar/Londo relationship is the moral centre of the show, and I can't imagine two other actors doing it better.

Koenig as Bester, one of the best recurring villains - they gave him so many good lines: "Anatomically impossible, Mr. Garibaldi. But you're welcome to try."
posted by nubs at 8:00 AM on June 19, 2023 [1 favorite]

"Grey 17 is Missing" is one to absolutely skip

Counterpoint: skip the main Garibaldi plot scenes, but absolutely DO watch the B-plot involving Marcus, Neroon and Delenn. A thousand Marcus/Neroon fanfics were born that day.
posted by Pallas Athena at 11:05 AM on June 19, 2023 [1 favorite]

Was a huge fan of the series but this seems like a mess of meh.
posted by billsaysthis at 11:59 AM on June 19, 2023

No Kosh?

They are all Kosh. That makes it really easy to collect action figures.
posted by TheHuntForBlueMonday at 12:50 PM on June 19, 2023 [2 favorites]

skip the main Garibaldi plot scenes, but absolutely DO watch the B-plot involving Marcus, Neroon and Delenn. A thousand Marcus/Neroon fanfics were born that day.

I have apparently eradicated so much of the episode from my mind that I have forgotten there was a B-plot. I will take your word for its existence.
posted by nubs at 6:30 PM on June 19, 2023 [1 favorite]

I missed Babylon 5 in the 90s and didn't end up watching it until five or six years ago. I was most of the way through a second viewing when it was removed from whatever streaming service I was watching it on -- HBO Max (pre just Max), maybe? Anyway, I'd watched through the various Star Trek series multiple to many times (save the post-Enterprise ones), and I felt that Babylon 5 was never as dull and uninteresting as a good chunk (possibly most?) of Voyager, never as confused and aimless as Enterprise's first two seasons (even in B5's listless 5th season) and, overall, had fewer clunky and irritating episodes than any of the Trek series, save possibly Deep Space 9. (Caveat: I haven't watched any of the B5 movies nor did I see Crusade.)

I'm looking forward to this. It got me excited enough to buy a box set of the B5 DVDs, so pretty soon, my partner and I will be up to our butts* in B5 episodes.

* Yes, I also find the awkwardly 90s dialogue strangely charming.
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 7:45 PM on June 19, 2023 [2 favorites]

And so it goes.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 10:54 PM on June 20, 2023