"A resounding victory for free and fair elections"
June 27, 2023 8:52 AM Subscribe
Supreme Court rejects independent state legislature theory (NYT, WaPo, CNN, Vanity Fair)
Chief Justice Roberts wrote the 6-3 majority opinion, with Alito, Gorsuch, and Thomas dissenting. The Constitution, Roberts wrote, “does not exempt state legislatures from the ordinary constraints imposed by state law.”
Because every Supreme Court post should have a Supremes song, here's their version of 'Ode to Billie Joe.'
Chief Justice Roberts wrote the 6-3 majority opinion, with Alito, Gorsuch, and Thomas dissenting. The Constitution, Roberts wrote, “does not exempt state legislatures from the ordinary constraints imposed by state law.”
Because every Supreme Court post should have a Supremes song, here's their version of 'Ode to Billie Joe.'
My immediate reaction was "oh, thank goodness," followed instantly by "what is the catch, am I allowed to feel relief yet"
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 8:56 AM on June 27, 2023 [64 favorites]
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 8:56 AM on June 27, 2023 [64 favorites]
A very predictable vote split. I'll have to see what sort of nonsense AGT write in their dissents.
posted by hippybear at 8:56 AM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 8:56 AM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile in Delaware.
What the WHAT. That is such a glaring, flaming loophole to bypass one-person-one-vote that it cannot possibly pass any sort of test of constitutionality. Or whatever, I'm not sure what the actual law is around that, but it can't be legal and at the very least should be demolished in the courts.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:15 AM on June 27, 2023 [13 favorites]
What the WHAT. That is such a glaring, flaming loophole to bypass one-person-one-vote that it cannot possibly pass any sort of test of constitutionality. Or whatever, I'm not sure what the actual law is around that, but it can't be legal and at the very least should be demolished in the courts.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:15 AM on June 27, 2023 [13 favorites]
I'll have to see what sort of nonsense AGT write in their dissents.
Basically they would have dismissed the case as moot, but then say "well, as long as we're talking about it, here's why our fringe-y independent state legislature theory is correct on the merits". It's more than a little hypocritical.
They likely take this approach because they knew they were losing on the merits and hoped to do what they could to preserve the issue for a hypothetical future case heard by an even more conservative Supreme Court. They would then argue that Moore v. Harper should have been dismissed as moot and thus should not "count" for stare decisis purposes and thus the court should feel free to overrule it.
posted by jedicus at 9:19 AM on June 27, 2023 [12 favorites]
Basically they would have dismissed the case as moot, but then say "well, as long as we're talking about it, here's why our fringe-y independent state legislature theory is correct on the merits". It's more than a little hypocritical.
They likely take this approach because they knew they were losing on the merits and hoped to do what they could to preserve the issue for a hypothetical future case heard by an even more conservative Supreme Court. They would then argue that Moore v. Harper should have been dismissed as moot and thus should not "count" for stare decisis purposes and thus the court should feel free to overrule it.
posted by jedicus at 9:19 AM on June 27, 2023 [12 favorites]
After Roe, is stare decisis even a thing anymore?
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:21 AM on June 27, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:21 AM on June 27, 2023 [14 favorites]
After Roe, is stare decisis even a thing anymore?
Is the constitution even a thing anymore? It feels like its being erased bit by bit.
posted by Fizz at 9:24 AM on June 27, 2023 [11 favorites]
Is the constitution even a thing anymore? It feels like its being erased bit by bit.
posted by Fizz at 9:24 AM on June 27, 2023 [11 favorites]
After Roe, is stare decisis even a thing anymore?
Not for the conservatives, but they like to have a fig leaf.
posted by jedicus at 9:25 AM on June 27, 2023 [10 favorites]
Not for the conservatives, but they like to have a fig leaf.
posted by jedicus at 9:25 AM on June 27, 2023 [10 favorites]
The New Yorker recently ran a good article explaining the background to all this.
posted by Paul Slade at 9:25 AM on June 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 9:25 AM on June 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
On behalf of NC, I'd like to apologize to the rest of you for Tim Moore.
posted by TheKaijuCommuter at 9:27 AM on June 27, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by TheKaijuCommuter at 9:27 AM on June 27, 2023 [12 favorites]
So Gorsuch didn't sign up for Thomas' rant about the independent state legislator theory, but did sign up for the point of moot argument. That's interesting. I thought he might bend toward that second part, too.
I love Roberts calling out Thomas over and over in the actual decision. Trying to defuse the kind of dissent "I'll quote from this to make an opposite decision look supported in a later case" move Thomas has been pulling for decades.
posted by hippybear at 9:33 AM on June 27, 2023 [18 favorites]
I love Roberts calling out Thomas over and over in the actual decision. Trying to defuse the kind of dissent "I'll quote from this to make an opposite decision look supported in a later case" move Thomas has been pulling for decades.
posted by hippybear at 9:33 AM on June 27, 2023 [18 favorites]
On behalf of NC, I'd like to apologize to the rest of you for Tim Moore.
Seconded.
posted by thivaia at 9:35 AM on June 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
Opinion analysis from Amy Howe at SCOTUS blog, on why the majority determined the case was not moot:
Affirmative action decisions still to come.
posted by the primroses were over at 9:39 AM on June 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
Roberts agreed that the court did have the power to decide the case on the merits. Among other things, he explained, the challengers had sought to block the use of the legislature’s 2021 plans. And although the recent North Carolina Supreme Court decision ruled that state courts can no longer consider partisan gerrymandering claims, he continued, the Republican legislators did not (because it was too late) ask the North Carolina Supreme Court to overrule the effect of its earlier decision barring the use of those plans in later elections. Therefore, Roberts reasoned, the Republican legislators still had a stake in the outcome of this proceeding, allowing the court to move forward.Looking forward to op eds citing this and last week's VRA case, which both merely avoiding wildly upending the status quo, as huge voting rights victories proving the legitimacy of the Roberts court, so quit yer whining about ethics and Dobbs and everything else.
Affirmative action decisions still to come.
posted by the primroses were over at 9:39 AM on June 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
Meanwhile in Delaware.
What the ACTUAL FUCK?!
posted by slkinsey at 9:46 AM on June 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
What the ACTUAL FUCK?!
posted by slkinsey at 9:46 AM on June 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
"what is the catch, am I allowed to feel relief yet"
The catch is that one third of the court thinks this is a good theory.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:46 AM on June 27, 2023 [22 favorites]
The catch is that one third of the court thinks this is a good theory.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:46 AM on June 27, 2023 [22 favorites]
How far the Overton window has shifted that we're celebrating this decision. Hooray, we've decided that the courts have some oversight to how elections are run and the state legislature doesn't have unchecked power to do whatever they want. Victory! I'm grateful for the decision but the idea that “independent state legislature theory” was ever considered coherent, viable, or historically motivated is just bonkers.
As for Delaware allowing corporations to vote, one-person-one-vote is not nearly as clear or settled a principle as you'd like to think. I mean, the US Constitution explicitly states that some people only counted for 3/5 a vote. (Not that those 60% people could personally vote or were entitled to liberty.) And while that particularly odious arithmetic no longer holds there's enormous questions about the right to vote in the US as well as what counts as "people" for proportional representation. A big part of the US Census fight in 2020 about a citizenship question was people trying to undermine the idea that non-citizens deserve representation in Congress.
posted by Nelson at 9:49 AM on June 27, 2023 [9 favorites]
As for Delaware allowing corporations to vote, one-person-one-vote is not nearly as clear or settled a principle as you'd like to think. I mean, the US Constitution explicitly states that some people only counted for 3/5 a vote. (Not that those 60% people could personally vote or were entitled to liberty.) And while that particularly odious arithmetic no longer holds there's enormous questions about the right to vote in the US as well as what counts as "people" for proportional representation. A big part of the US Census fight in 2020 about a citizenship question was people trying to undermine the idea that non-citizens deserve representation in Congress.
posted by Nelson at 9:49 AM on June 27, 2023 [9 favorites]
This is a good decision and there have been some other recent surprisingly good decisions, but I worry that it's partially about softening the blow of a really shitty student loan forgiveness decision to come during a time that the court is facing heightened scrutiny for multiple reasons
posted by jason_steakums at 9:52 AM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by jason_steakums at 9:52 AM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I will always believe that the only reason Barrett and Kavanaugh voted against it is that it came about in the 2022-2023 term rather than the 2023-2024 term. They're afraid of Democratic legislatures in swing states fucking with the 2024 election entirely out in the open over the next sixteen months if given the opportunity.
posted by Etrigan at 9:52 AM on June 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 9:52 AM on June 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
Meanwhile in Delaware.
"In 2019, it was revealed that a single property manager who controlled multiple LLCs voted 31 times in a Newark, Delaware, town referendum, an incident that led Newark to amend its rules. And residents in Rehoboth Beach in 2017 beat back a proposal to allow LLCs to vote."
posted by vverse23 at 9:53 AM on June 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
"In 2019, it was revealed that a single property manager who controlled multiple LLCs voted 31 times in a Newark, Delaware, town referendum, an incident that led Newark to amend its rules. And residents in Rehoboth Beach in 2017 beat back a proposal to allow LLCs to vote."
posted by vverse23 at 9:53 AM on June 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
"I'm grateful for the decision but the idea that 'independent state legislature theory' was ever considered coherent, viable, or historically motivated is just bonkers."
Some good reading on how completely ridiculous this theory is was recently published in the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy.
posted by N8yskates at 10:06 AM on June 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
Some good reading on how completely ridiculous this theory is was recently published in the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy.
posted by N8yskates at 10:06 AM on June 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
Slowing turning a dial marked “collapse of democracy” and constantly looking back at the audience for approval like a contestant on the price is right.
posted by Artw at 10:19 AM on June 27, 2023 [44 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:19 AM on June 27, 2023 [44 favorites]
The ironic thing about this is that today's decision will not immediately benefit the people of NC in any way, because the state supreme court that threw out the gerrymandering and redrew the maps itself no longer exists, and the new court is likely to think terrible partisan gerrymandering is awesome. But for the rest of us, especially those who live in states with some ability to have a less biased judiciary, this is a good thing.
posted by hydropsyche at 10:23 AM on June 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 10:23 AM on June 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
The Delaware corporate voting thing is even more heinous since 60% of Fortune 500 Companies are headquartered there. You know, to avoid paying state taxes and such where their actual HQs are.
For non US-residents, no we can't explain why this is allowed either.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:30 AM on June 27, 2023 [23 favorites]
For non US-residents, no we can't explain why this is allowed either.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:30 AM on June 27, 2023 [23 favorites]
I’m surprised it was even this close. The court would have had to constrain judicial review / oversight over a whole category of law.
posted by interogative mood at 10:47 AM on June 27, 2023
posted by interogative mood at 10:47 AM on June 27, 2023
I've been surprised that I haven't seen a link to the opinion in any of the stories I've looked at, but for anyone who'd like to read the opinion itself, I found it at the Supreme Court's home page - the case is Moore v. Harper .
Thank you for posting this, box - I had been dreading this decision, and I'm so glad justice prevailed in this case.
posted by kristi at 10:51 AM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Thank you for posting this, box - I had been dreading this decision, and I'm so glad justice prevailed in this case.
posted by kristi at 10:51 AM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Essentially 9 people were asked if they were interested in mass self-immolation and 3 voted YES
I mean, I'm very thankful, but...
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:05 AM on June 27, 2023 [20 favorites]
I mean, I'm very thankful, but...
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:05 AM on June 27, 2023 [20 favorites]
I've been surprised that I haven't seen a link to the opinion in any of the stories I've looked at, but for anyone who'd like to read the opinion itself, I found it at the Supreme Court's home page - the case is Moore v. Harper .
It was the first link in the first link in this post?
posted by pwnguin at 11:24 AM on June 27, 2023
It was the first link in the first link in this post?
posted by pwnguin at 11:24 AM on June 27, 2023
Now we just need rank choice voting and we can move the country forward
posted by Seattle Ballooning at 11:32 AM on June 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Seattle Ballooning at 11:32 AM on June 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
Ah, sorry, I missed that, pwnguin - I don't have a NYTimes subscription so those pages don't load for me, so I don't click nytimes.com links. Thanks!
posted by kristi at 11:45 AM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by kristi at 11:45 AM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's also the word "opinion" as a link in the first sentence below the fold in this FPP.
posted by hippybear at 11:48 AM on June 27, 2023
posted by hippybear at 11:48 AM on June 27, 2023
It is unsurprising that the courts decided that what the courts say should matter; we can view this as the supreme court hoarding more power for itself by reinforcing state courts. It's a good outcome, to be sure, but can be viewed through a certain realpolitik lens as well.
(also, approval voting or gtfo.)
posted by kaibutsu at 11:50 AM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
(also, approval voting or gtfo.)
posted by kaibutsu at 11:50 AM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
And in other court news.
Okay, everything about that makes my brain hurt.
posted by hippybear at 12:13 PM on June 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
Okay, everything about that makes my brain hurt.
posted by hippybear at 12:13 PM on June 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
what is the catch
Here you go:
There’s a Time Bomb in Progressives’ Big Supreme Court Voting Case Win
A bit too complex for quick quoting, so read for yourself, but the general outline:
...Moore is not all good news. In the last part of his majority opinion for the court, the chief justice got the liberal justices to sign onto a version of judicial review that is going to give the federal courts, and especially the Supreme Court itself, the last word in election disputes...
It is this milder version of the independent state legislature theory that the court embraced in Moore. It did not spell out its contours, and whether to adopt the Rehnquist Bush approach or some other approach...
Make no mistake: this apparent new test would give great power to federal courts, and especially to the U.S. Supreme Court, to second guess state court rulings in the most sensitive of cases...In the end, the liberals had to swallow a bitter pill without a word presumably to keep a majority with the conservative justices and reject the most extreme version of the theory...
But what Roberts left unresolved in his majority opinion is going to be hanging out there, a new tool to be used to rein in especially voter-protective rulings of state courts. Every expansion of voting rights in the context of federal litigation will now yield a potential second federal lawsuit with uncertain results. It’s going to be ugly, and it could lead to another Supreme Court intervention in a presidential election sooner rather than later. Moore gave voters a win today, but it sets up a Supreme Court power grab down the line.
posted by mediareport at 12:22 PM on June 27, 2023 [17 favorites]
Here you go:
There’s a Time Bomb in Progressives’ Big Supreme Court Voting Case Win
A bit too complex for quick quoting, so read for yourself, but the general outline:
...Moore is not all good news. In the last part of his majority opinion for the court, the chief justice got the liberal justices to sign onto a version of judicial review that is going to give the federal courts, and especially the Supreme Court itself, the last word in election disputes...
It is this milder version of the independent state legislature theory that the court embraced in Moore. It did not spell out its contours, and whether to adopt the Rehnquist Bush approach or some other approach...
Make no mistake: this apparent new test would give great power to federal courts, and especially to the U.S. Supreme Court, to second guess state court rulings in the most sensitive of cases...In the end, the liberals had to swallow a bitter pill without a word presumably to keep a majority with the conservative justices and reject the most extreme version of the theory...
But what Roberts left unresolved in his majority opinion is going to be hanging out there, a new tool to be used to rein in especially voter-protective rulings of state courts. Every expansion of voting rights in the context of federal litigation will now yield a potential second federal lawsuit with uncertain results. It’s going to be ugly, and it could lead to another Supreme Court intervention in a presidential election sooner rather than later. Moore gave voters a win today, but it sets up a Supreme Court power grab down the line.
posted by mediareport at 12:22 PM on June 27, 2023 [17 favorites]
Is the constitution even a thing anymore? It feels like its being erased bit by bit.
Well, at least according to one former republican president, it’s just a piece of paper.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:44 PM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Well, at least according to one former republican president, it’s just a piece of paper.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:44 PM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't have a NYTimes subscription so those pages don't load for me
They don't always work for everybody, but if I put a NYT or WaPo link in a post, it's a gift link.
posted by box at 12:56 PM on June 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
They don't always work for everybody, but if I put a NYT or WaPo link in a post, it's a gift link.
posted by box at 12:56 PM on June 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
I am happy about this, of course, but appalled that it's a Big Deal. it shouldn't have gotten that far, it shouldn't have been anything other than 9-0.
posted by theora55 at 12:57 PM on June 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 12:57 PM on June 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
I see I misspoke earlier. Alito took the bow out from the Thomas dissent supporting the state legislature theory thing. Thomas and Gorsuch are the two who went for that.
posted by hippybear at 1:02 PM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 1:02 PM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Do corporations have to register to vote in DE?
Do they have to be at least 18 years old?
posted by MtDewd at 1:30 PM on June 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
Do they have to be at least 18 years old?
posted by MtDewd at 1:30 PM on June 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
As I read it, the Deleware "thing" only applies to one town of 8,000 people. The state legislature is only deciding whether to give that one town the power to enact it (in Massachusetts we call this process a "home rule petition"). The linked article goes on to mention another town that has already banned it because of flagrant abuses, and there's pending statewide legislation that would ban towns completely from from enacting it.
Yeah it's appalling that anyone would even consider giving corporations the right to vote, but this isn't coming from on high, it's a wacky thing being proposed in a tiny corner of the state.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 1:41 PM on June 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
Yeah it's appalling that anyone would even consider giving corporations the right to vote, but this isn't coming from on high, it's a wacky thing being proposed in a tiny corner of the state.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 1:41 PM on June 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
As I read it, the Deleware "thing" only applies to one town of 8,000 people.
No, the article notes several towns in Delaware already have such laws:
If you’re referring to the aforementioned Newark, Delaware where an LLC manager was able to vote 31 times in a town referendum, the article says the law was amended, not repealed.
posted by star gentle uterus at 2:31 PM on June 27, 2023
No, the article notes several towns in Delaware already have such laws:
A handful of other Delaware towns, including Fenwick Island, Henlopen Acres and Dagsboro, already allow corporations to vote, according to Common Cause.The linked article goes on to mention another town that has already banned it because of flagrant abuses
If you’re referring to the aforementioned Newark, Delaware where an LLC manager was able to vote 31 times in a town referendum, the article says the law was amended, not repealed.
posted by star gentle uterus at 2:31 PM on June 27, 2023
So, how are the wackier corners of the conservative world taking this decision? The ones who thought the independent state legislature scheme was a solid idea?
posted by Thorzdad at 2:38 PM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Thorzdad at 2:38 PM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Fenwick Island, Pop 355
Henlopen Acres, Pop 122
Dagsboro, Pop 805
Newark is definitely the outlier with a population of 31,454. I'll give you that. But all of those other locations (assuming they were the most significant of the handful of other Delaware towns) are tiny little corners of nothing. They probably also have laws requiring ducks to wear long pants.
It's disturbing that someone would think of doing it, but we're definitely in the long tail here, so it really isn't all that surprising.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 2:46 PM on June 27, 2023
Henlopen Acres, Pop 122
Dagsboro, Pop 805
Newark is definitely the outlier with a population of 31,454. I'll give you that. But all of those other locations (assuming they were the most significant of the handful of other Delaware towns) are tiny little corners of nothing. They probably also have laws requiring ducks to wear long pants.
It's disturbing that someone would think of doing it, but we're definitely in the long tail here, so it really isn't all that surprising.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 2:46 PM on June 27, 2023
It's the Overton aspect of the Delaware stuff that's so disturbing. Can you imagine the questions during the 2028 primary debates?
"Mr. Cruz, you've stated that corporations should get 50 times the number of votes that citizens do in the upcoming election. Mr. Shapiro, you take the more moderate stance that corporations should only get twice as many. How many votes should corporations get relative to humans, and, in your opinion, should this be enacted via constitutional amendment or presidential fiat? And should the National Guard or paramilitary contractors be the ones who shoot those who object to corporate patriotism?"
In this timeline, that's barely hyperbole.
posted by Rykey at 2:54 PM on June 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
"Mr. Cruz, you've stated that corporations should get 50 times the number of votes that citizens do in the upcoming election. Mr. Shapiro, you take the more moderate stance that corporations should only get twice as many. How many votes should corporations get relative to humans, and, in your opinion, should this be enacted via constitutional amendment or presidential fiat? And should the National Guard or paramilitary contractors be the ones who shoot those who object to corporate patriotism?"
In this timeline, that's barely hyperbole.
posted by Rykey at 2:54 PM on June 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
This development, along with Pamela Hemphill, has restored some of my faith that there is a bottom to the willful violent stupidity that had seemingly overtaken America. MTG seems to be descending to that bottom as well, as she finds herself about to be voted out of the Freedom Caucus.
As for Delaware, I'm more afraid of corporations being allowed to run for, or be appoined to office. California Governor 'Walt Disney Corp.'? Treasury Sec'y 'Chase'? (Actually, its namesake did serve there). Greendale Community College Board members 'Subway' and 'Honda'? The mind boggles.
posted by zaixfeep at 3:53 PM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
As for Delaware, I'm more afraid of corporations being allowed to run for, or be appoined to office. California Governor 'Walt Disney Corp.'? Treasury Sec'y 'Chase'? (Actually, its namesake did serve there). Greendale Community College Board members 'Subway' and 'Honda'? The mind boggles.
posted by zaixfeep at 3:53 PM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
The business about corporations voting in town elections is wacky enough that it probably deserves its own thread, rather than derailing this one. I have about ten questions, but I would rather enjoy that y'all have given me permission to feel temporarily relieved.
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 4:19 PM on June 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 4:19 PM on June 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
hippybear wrote:
"I love Roberts calling out Thomas over and over in the actual decision."
All-the-while invoking 'stare derisive', I can only presume.
posted by splifingate at 5:09 PM on June 27, 2023
"I love Roberts calling out Thomas over and over in the actual decision."
All-the-while invoking 'stare derisive', I can only presume.
posted by splifingate at 5:09 PM on June 27, 2023
(Wait, what is this about MTG maybe being voted out of the Freedom Caucus?)
posted by eviemath at 5:29 PM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by eviemath at 5:29 PM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
(Wait, what is this about MTG maybe being voted out of the Freedom Caucus?)
Yeah, they took a vote on Friday and nobody knows where she stands right now. She's been running too much interference for Kevin McCarthy, even voting for the debt ceiling compromise bill which the "Freedom" (to die in a ditch) Caucus were firmly against.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 5:35 PM on June 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yeah, they took a vote on Friday and nobody knows where she stands right now. She's been running too much interference for Kevin McCarthy, even voting for the debt ceiling compromise bill which the "Freedom" (to die in a ditch) Caucus were firmly against.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 5:35 PM on June 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
The Delaware corporate voting thing is even more heinous since 60% of Fortune 500 Companies are headquartered there. You know, to avoid paying state taxes and such where their actual HQs are.
Not that it’s a good thing any way, but it’s important to note that this law was passed by Seaford, which is a small town in slower lower. There aren’t any Fortune 500 corporations headquartered in Seaford.
posted by rhymedirective at 6:05 PM on June 27, 2023
Not that it’s a good thing any way, but it’s important to note that this law was passed by Seaford, which is a small town in slower lower. There aren’t any Fortune 500 corporations headquartered in Seaford.
posted by rhymedirective at 6:05 PM on June 27, 2023
This ruling is the republican version of the Wagner Group marching unchecked toward Moscow then pulling back. The idea that this incredibly unconstitutional case got to the Supreme Court was the point.
posted by any major dude at 6:36 PM on June 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by any major dude at 6:36 PM on June 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
Newark is definitely the outlier with a population of 31,454. I'll give you that. But all of those other locations (assuming they were the most significant of the handful of other Delaware towns) are tiny little corners of nothing.
Delaware only has a million residents. Add the 8000 and you are looking at 4% of the population getting their votes diluted at best by corporations. It's not alot but it's not nothing.
posted by Mitheral at 7:35 PM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Delaware only has a million residents. Add the 8000 and you are looking at 4% of the population getting their votes diluted at best by corporations. It's not alot but it's not nothing.
posted by Mitheral at 7:35 PM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
As far as a I can tell the only bill up for a vote by the State Legislature will stop municipalities from having these laws in their charters and clarify that this is not allowed under Delaware Law.
posted by interogative mood at 8:15 PM on June 27, 2023
posted by interogative mood at 8:15 PM on June 27, 2023
real nailbiter, that. tbh, i expected isl to skate through. so relieved.
posted by j_curiouser at 8:39 PM on June 27, 2023
posted by j_curiouser at 8:39 PM on June 27, 2023
The Delaware thing seems like a derail, but to be fair, lobbyists win most elections anyway.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:13 PM on June 27, 2023
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:13 PM on June 27, 2023
So I think what this also says to me in - man there needs to be a word for Supreme Court watching similar to Kremlinology - is that Roberts is working behind the scenes to limit how much people want to follow Alito off a cliff. That’s a good thing, I think, even if this win isn’t actually that big.
posted by corb at 10:05 PM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 10:05 PM on June 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
The fact that the court ever took up the case shows how they were willing to even consider that a state legislature could simply throw out any federal election vote tally they didn't like. It should have been summarily dismissed not because it was moot but because it was patently ridiculous -- an opposite ruling would have entirely thrown out basically every constitutional question all the way back to Marbury v Madison.
The fact that enough justices voted to even hear the case at all bodes very ill for the republic.
posted by tclark at 10:52 PM on June 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
The fact that enough justices voted to even hear the case at all bodes very ill for the republic.
posted by tclark at 10:52 PM on June 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
also on the docket...
An Aggressive Supreme Court Reshapes the US as Its Standing Erodes - "A conservative supermajority is remaking US laws on the environment, health and firearms, even as public confidence declines and ethical questions grow."
An Aggressive Supreme Court Reshapes the US as Its Standing Erodes - "A conservative supermajority is remaking US laws on the environment, health and firearms, even as public confidence declines and ethical questions grow."
The unanimous 1984 ruling, Chevron v. Natural Resources Defense Council, requires judges to defer to regulatory agencies on the meaning of unclear statutes. What came to be known as “Chevron deference” is now an irritant to business, and overturning it an ardent desire of conservatives. Toppling the precedent would give opponents of big government one of their grandest prizes yet and potentially raise questions about reams of federal rules and regulations governing nearly every business in America.posted by kliuless at 1:27 AM on June 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
The fact that enough justices voted to even hear the case at all bodes very ill for the republic.
I agree because of the dissenters, but if memory serves me correctly SCOTUS could agree to hear a case solely to strike down whatever wacky argument i being made.
posted by Gelatin at 4:27 AM on June 28, 2023
I agree because of the dissenters, but if memory serves me correctly SCOTUS could agree to hear a case solely to strike down whatever wacky argument i being made.
posted by Gelatin at 4:27 AM on June 28, 2023
Dahlia Lithwick interviews J. Michael Luttig, an influential retired conservative judge, on why the court had an affirmative duty to issue a decision on the ISL theory, and on how that theory relates to the arguments Trump was trying to use on January 6th:
posted by the primroses were over at 5:20 AM on June 28, 2023 [6 favorites]
So from Bush v. Gore, fast forward to the 2020 presidential election, and long before the election, the former president and his allies began to argue for the so-called independent state legislature theory, as an interpretation of the electors clause of the Constitution. Those litigations were initiated in several of the states and they wound their way to the Supreme Court of the United States. And finally, it was in the first or second week of December of 2020 that the Supreme Court decided against taking the cases and therefore against deciding the independent state legislature theory. In my view, everyone could see, not even foresee, what the possibilities would be on Jan. 6 if the court did not take this case, because the independent state legislature theory was, as I’ve called it, the centerpiece of the efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election.This has been an ongoing constitutional controversy, and ignoring it would not make it go away. I don't think simply taking up the case is a sign of anything other than the need to settle the issue, which is one of the main reasons we have SCOTUS.
posted by the primroses were over at 5:20 AM on June 28, 2023 [6 favorites]
The problem is less that the Supreme Court of the United States took up this ridiculous "theory" and more that there were enough ridiculous state judges who were willing to entertain it. Plus this particular Supreme Court of the United States has shown that it does not give the tiniest shit about precedent if it doesn't want to, so this issue is no more settled than it was a week ago.
posted by Etrigan at 6:14 AM on June 28, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 6:14 AM on June 28, 2023 [7 favorites]
Sure, but even this court is unlikely to about face on ISL before November 2024.
posted by the primroses were over at 6:29 AM on June 28, 2023
posted by the primroses were over at 6:29 AM on June 28, 2023
OK, I'll accept Luttig's argument for why the SCOTUS needed to take up the case, but it should have never gotten to the Supreme Court in the first place. Every court should have summarily dismissed it on grounds of separation of powers.
posted by tclark at 8:12 AM on June 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by tclark at 8:12 AM on June 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
> tclark: "Every court should have summarily dismissed it on grounds of separation of powers."
Yeah, I think this is the other, less appreciated rot in the system. The Federalist Society isn't just focused on the Supreme Court, they've captured big chunks of the lower courts too.
posted by mhum at 9:07 AM on June 28, 2023 [4 favorites]
Yeah, I think this is the other, less appreciated rot in the system. The Federalist Society isn't just focused on the Supreme Court, they've captured big chunks of the lower courts too.
posted by mhum at 9:07 AM on June 28, 2023 [4 favorites]
The Supreme Court Rejected a Dangerous Elections Theory. But It’s Not All Good News. Another take on the story mediareport shared above from Slate, about how the decisions till embraces a weaker form of restraint on judicial oversight.
the court simultaneously endorsed a version of the independent state legislature theory. The court held that the Constitution imposes some limits on the way state courts interpret their own state constitutions. These limits also apply to the way state courts interpret state election statutes — as well as the way state election administrators apply state election statutes in federal elections.posted by Nelson at 11:30 AM on June 28, 2023
Yet the court offers no guidance, no standard at all, for lower courts to know when a state court has gone too far. The decision merely says that “state courts do not have free rein” and that they may not “transgress the ordinary bounds of judicial review such that they arrogate to themselves the power vested in state legislatures to regulate federal elections.”
The court offers no concrete understanding nor any example of what that means.
After Dobbs and other recent rulings the court has said precedents don’t matter and the law can be whatever the majority wants.
posted by interogative mood at 11:56 AM on June 28, 2023
posted by interogative mood at 11:56 AM on June 28, 2023
They’ll know it when they see it
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 12:22 PM on June 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 12:22 PM on June 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
Some of y'all are really strenuously trying to find the dark cloud attached to this silver lining.
("Metafilter: Some of y'all are really strenuously trying to...")
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:49 PM on June 28, 2023
("Metafilter: Some of y'all are really strenuously trying to...")
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:49 PM on June 28, 2023
> Meanwhile in Delaware.
FWIW it's very common around here for property owners - which of course includes companies, corporations, etc - to have some kind a vote in elections for/decisions of levee districts. Sometimes it is proportional according to acreage of land owned.
Here is an example statute. Another. A third that is proportional by acreage and miles of right-of-way owned, and also specifically allows corporations owning land a vote.
Often these are places that have few to no residents - due to the flood threat - and the idea is, who has the interest in these taxes and how they are spent? It is the property owners in the area, whoever they may be.
FWIW levee boards often tend to very much be incestuous old boys' clubs type of arrangements. Also they are perennially underfunded and always begging members of Congress to throw federal money their way - the more the better.
This is one way we get bazillions of federal dollars spent on rivers and streams and the areas surrounding them, yet literally no public access to the area. It's a bit like if we spent billions of federal tax money each year on the National Parks, but then the parks were open only to a selected cadre of billionaires.
posted by flug at 2:21 PM on June 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
FWIW it's very common around here for property owners - which of course includes companies, corporations, etc - to have some kind a vote in elections for/decisions of levee districts. Sometimes it is proportional according to acreage of land owned.
Here is an example statute. Another. A third that is proportional by acreage and miles of right-of-way owned, and also specifically allows corporations owning land a vote.
Often these are places that have few to no residents - due to the flood threat - and the idea is, who has the interest in these taxes and how they are spent? It is the property owners in the area, whoever they may be.
FWIW levee boards often tend to very much be incestuous old boys' clubs type of arrangements. Also they are perennially underfunded and always begging members of Congress to throw federal money their way - the more the better.
This is one way we get bazillions of federal dollars spent on rivers and streams and the areas surrounding them, yet literally no public access to the area. It's a bit like if we spent billions of federal tax money each year on the National Parks, but then the parks were open only to a selected cadre of billionaires.
posted by flug at 2:21 PM on June 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
> Clarentology?So, like missing wives, eternal servitude, e-meters, and space mollusks except somehow both more unbelievable and way more corrupt?
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 3:51 PM on June 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
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