It's really not that hard
July 14, 2023 8:56 AM Subscribe
xAI is a new company founded by Elon Musk that sets out to Understand the Universe.
Welcome to the lobby
Entering the plaza
Casual Friday
Evening drive
Midnight
Thank heaven for 7-11
Late summer drive
Aisle 420
VaporFunk Station đź“Ľ | 24/7 Vaporwave Radio
Welcome to the lobby
Entering the plaza
Casual Friday
Evening drive
Midnight
Thank heaven for 7-11
Late summer drive
Aisle 420
VaporFunk Station đź“Ľ | 24/7 Vaporwave Radio
Putting aside Musk's latest venture focusing on providing industry-appropriate footwear for the clowning and clowning-associated community, I would like to take a moment to say thank you for this fine selection of vaporwave.
Oh boy, the "Center for AI Safety"! That's where I'm avikingbasilisk!
posted by phooky at 9:14 AM on July 14, 2023 [21 favorites]
Oh boy, the "Center for AI Safety"! That's where I'm a
posted by phooky at 9:14 AM on July 14, 2023 [21 favorites]
wait isn't this what he named his kid
posted by paimapi at 9:15 AM on July 14, 2023 [32 favorites]
posted by paimapi at 9:15 AM on July 14, 2023 [32 favorites]
If we get them all together in a room we can lock the door and we'll all finally be free.
posted by hippybear at 9:15 AM on July 14, 2023 [15 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 9:15 AM on July 14, 2023 [15 favorites]
I'll save them some time. Assume a very spherical electron.
posted by credulous at 9:15 AM on July 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by credulous at 9:15 AM on July 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
also it's a bunch of dudes, like the most cis of dudes
I'm sure this will present no problems in terms of bias
posted by paimapi at 9:16 AM on July 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
I'm sure this will present no problems in terms of bias
posted by paimapi at 9:16 AM on July 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
The goal of xAI is to understand the true nature of the universe.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahhaahahahahahahaha.
posted by dutchrick at 9:21 AM on July 14, 2023 [36 favorites]
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahhaahahahahahahaha.
posted by dutchrick at 9:21 AM on July 14, 2023 [36 favorites]
Apparently the staff includes some pretty good automatic theorem proving people
posted by grobstein at 9:23 AM on July 14, 2023
posted by grobstein at 9:23 AM on July 14, 2023
42.
posted by straw at 9:24 AM on July 14, 2023 [22 favorites]
posted by straw at 9:24 AM on July 14, 2023 [22 favorites]
What is the connection or relevance of the above- and below-the-fold here? This feels like they're mixed up from two different posts?
posted by Dysk at 9:26 AM on July 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 9:26 AM on July 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
So wait, the post is a link to Musk's newest venture, but behind the fold is what turns out to be a bunch of unrelated vaporwave? That's intended as a comment on the announcement? If so I'm all in favor, but I want to make sure it's not some pestilent meme he's trying to push, because it's entirely in keeping with his personality to make a self-referential meme mocking his own product in attempt to win "points" or whatever.
Anyway. Find everyone who is uncritically ebullient about this new company (what is it, his fifth?), and remove them from your media diet. Just ignore everything they say. If killfiles were still a thing, you could add them to it. It would make your internet experience a little better.
posted by JHarris at 9:27 AM on July 14, 2023 [11 favorites]
Anyway. Find everyone who is uncritically ebullient about this new company (what is it, his fifth?), and remove them from your media diet. Just ignore everything they say. If killfiles were still a thing, you could add them to it. It would make your internet experience a little better.
posted by JHarris at 9:27 AM on July 14, 2023 [11 favorites]
paimapi: "the most cis of dudes "
Hey, watch it with the language.
posted by adamrice at 9:27 AM on July 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
Hey, watch it with the language.
posted by adamrice at 9:27 AM on July 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
paimapi: "wait isn't this what he named his kid"
I'm glad I'm not the only person that made this joke.
posted by deezil at 9:31 AM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm glad I'm not the only person that made this joke.
posted by deezil at 9:31 AM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
So basically they're just doing the Stephen Wolfram thing of disrupting the philosophy of science, except this time they're divining how the universe works through incomprehensible, black box AIs instead of cellular automation?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:34 AM on July 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:34 AM on July 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
JHarris: "So wait, the post is a link to Musk's newest venture, but behind the fold is what turns out to be a bunch of unrelated vaporwave?"
Vaporwave, vaporware, tomato, tomahto.
posted by deezil at 9:34 AM on July 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
Vaporwave, vaporware, tomato, tomahto.
posted by deezil at 9:34 AM on July 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
Hey, watch it with the language.
I'm sorry I meant to say the most gender performative internalized patriarchy boring-ass loves-to-mansplain-in-that-way-that-everyone-who-reads-reddit-religiously-does uncritcally-watches-and-enjoys-marvel-movies has-an-opinion-on-IPAs cargo short wearing thinks-buying-j-crew-factory-is-fashion thinks-he's-a-nice-guy quotes-will-ferrell-as-a-personality cares-about-being-perceived-as-effeminate-in-any-way thinks of women as conquests only and tries to 'optimize' their online dating experience thinks-being-a-billionaire-and-exploiting-the-surplus-labor-of-capital-is-what-we-should-all-strive-for ass kinda dudes
posted by paimapi at 9:36 AM on July 14, 2023 [32 favorites]
I'm sorry I meant to say the most gender performative internalized patriarchy boring-ass loves-to-mansplain-in-that-way-that-everyone-who-reads-reddit-religiously-does uncritcally-watches-and-enjoys-marvel-movies has-an-opinion-on-IPAs cargo short wearing thinks-buying-j-crew-factory-is-fashion thinks-he's-a-nice-guy quotes-will-ferrell-as-a-personality cares-about-being-perceived-as-effeminate-in-any-way thinks of women as conquests only and tries to 'optimize' their online dating experience thinks-being-a-billionaire-and-exploiting-the-surplus-labor-of-capital-is-what-we-should-all-strive-for ass kinda dudes
posted by paimapi at 9:36 AM on July 14, 2023 [32 favorites]
Some useful background to this escapade is that Elon Musk was part of the crew that founded OpenAI, the company behind ChatGPT but huffed off when they wouldn't let him be in charge.
Then he was one of those signatories on that open letter calling for a six month pause in AI development, which I found extremely disingenuous.
And now he's starting up this AI company, and it feels like his latest grift--a way for him to leverage the greed of VC investors to hop on the next big thing, and the grasping desire to crush the ability of labor to make demands of his class.
posted by foxfirefey at 9:38 AM on July 14, 2023 [13 favorites]
Then he was one of those signatories on that open letter calling for a six month pause in AI development, which I found extremely disingenuous.
And now he's starting up this AI company, and it feels like his latest grift--a way for him to leverage the greed of VC investors to hop on the next big thing, and the grasping desire to crush the ability of labor to make demands of his class.
posted by foxfirefey at 9:38 AM on July 14, 2023 [13 favorites]
And--why do I get the feeling that this whole venture came about because Musk was at some rich people's meet-and-greet, like the kind of thing that, oh, say Jeffery Epstein used to put together, was drunk and/or high with a bunch of math people, got his head full of ideas he had no hope of actually understanding, and made a promise that he decided not to go back on when he was sober (assuming that ever happens these days)?
posted by JHarris at 9:39 AM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 9:39 AM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
someone should tell all those people whose twitter accounts are linked on that page that some asshole is using their likenesses for a parody website
I know just the law firm for the job.
posted by The Bellman at 9:45 AM on July 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
I know just the law firm for the job.
posted by The Bellman at 9:45 AM on July 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
Vocal Jazz Vaporwave Cassette | Revised, Repaired, Extended
posted by flabdablet at 9:48 AM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 9:48 AM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
There was a blind item going around Twitter last year about a rich techie who strongly believed in the "simulation hypothesis" and had hired some programmers to basically hack the simulation. Most people guessed it was about Musk and I suppose this is the reveal. Personally if we are all really living in a simulation I would appreciate it if we DIDN'T get hacked from the inside but when did the thought of anyone else's life or existence affect the behavior of Musk?
posted by muddgirl at 9:49 AM on July 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 9:49 AM on July 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
foxfirefy: Some useful background to this escapade is that Elon Musk was part of the crew that founded OpenAI, the company behind ChatGPT but huffed off when they wouldn't let him be in charge.
In his own words: "man, fate loves irony, next-level"
posted by Corvinity at 9:49 AM on July 14, 2023
In his own words: "man, fate loves irony, next-level"
posted by Corvinity at 9:49 AM on July 14, 2023
There's a kind of dark forest thing here where, if we think it might be possible to hack the Matrix, we should under no circumstances allow anyone to try, just in case they 1) succeed and become a god, or 2) succeed and piss off whoever's outside the simulation.
posted by BungaDunga at 9:50 AM on July 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by BungaDunga at 9:50 AM on July 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
Vaporwave, vaporware, tomato, tomahto.
Vaporwave actually exists.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:51 AM on July 14, 2023 [11 favorites]
Vaporwave actually exists.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:51 AM on July 14, 2023 [11 favorites]
finally, a worthy nemesis for Superalignment
posted by chavenet at 9:59 AM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by chavenet at 9:59 AM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
[insert several parts of benoit blanc's speech from the climax of glass onion here]
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 10:09 AM on July 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 10:09 AM on July 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
Why'd he name it after his kid?
Using my edit window to admit defeat.
posted by Stonestock Relentless at 10:11 AM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Using my edit window to admit defeat.
posted by Stonestock Relentless at 10:11 AM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Mod note: One comment. If you don't like a post feel free to skip it, instead of leaving a dismissive comment.
posted by loup (staff) at 10:14 AM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by loup (staff) at 10:14 AM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
The stupidity is already here. It’s just not evenly distributed yet.
posted by RakDaddy at 10:24 AM on July 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by RakDaddy at 10:24 AM on July 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
someone should tell all those people whose twitter accounts are linked on that page that some asshole is using their likenesses for a parody website
You'd probably have to explain what "parody" means first.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:26 AM on July 14, 2023
You'd probably have to explain what "parody" means first.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:26 AM on July 14, 2023
this is clearly dumb, but any money and time Elon spends on universe math is money and time he's not spending on hurting people, so go nuts.
posted by saturday_morning at 10:32 AM on July 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 10:32 AM on July 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
ok fine, do that Elon. but you're still a self entitled jerk.
posted by bluesky43 at 10:35 AM on July 14, 2023
posted by bluesky43 at 10:35 AM on July 14, 2023
money and time Elon spends on universe math is money and time he's not spending on hurting people
Assumes facts not in evidence
posted by flabdablet at 10:37 AM on July 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
Assumes facts not in evidence
posted by flabdablet at 10:37 AM on July 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
And--why do I get the feeling that this whole venture came about because Musk was at some rich people's meet-and-greet, like the kind of thing that, oh, say Jeffery Epstein used to put together, was drunk and/or high with a bunch of math people, got his head full of ideas he had no hope of actually understanding, and made a promise that he decided not to go back on when he was sober (assuming that ever happens these days)?
He really is the Trump of the tech world, isn’t he?
posted by Silvery Fish at 10:42 AM on July 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
He really is the Trump of the tech world, isn’t he?
posted by Silvery Fish at 10:42 AM on July 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
I wonder how much of this is just another shell company for him to do more tax crimes through. I have no idea why people keep thinking this man is smart enough to run a company. I wouldn't trust him to set the clocks on my oven. But here we are.
posted by Fizz at 10:45 AM on July 14, 2023 [16 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 10:45 AM on July 14, 2023 [16 favorites]
Also, can someone please take this man's marijuana away
posted by saturday_morning at 10:52 AM on July 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 10:52 AM on July 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
Leaving - Epoch (and also the rest of the Paradise Killer soundtrack)
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 11:01 AM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 11:01 AM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Re: the Wolfram thing. I don't think that's quite fair. Yes, ANKoS wasn't new, and it wasn't science. But it was kind of science. And Wolfram is by all accounts (of my neighbors and friends who have worked for him) a giant ass, and an abusive jerk of a boss. A megalomaniac who wants all the attention and his name on everything, especially when his reach exceeds his grasp.
And yes he did basically steal the key IP for his business, which he produced for the University of California.
....Ok I guess the main difference is I'm confident Wolfram has some strong skills in math.
posted by SaltySalticid at 11:14 AM on July 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
And yes he did basically steal the key IP for his business, which he produced for the University of California.
....Ok I guess the main difference is I'm confident Wolfram has some strong skills in math.
posted by SaltySalticid at 11:14 AM on July 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
Understand the “true nature” of the universe? Does this imply some mystical, revelatory wisdom passed down from the Ascended Wisdom Masters? Do they have some breakthrough scientific insight into physics that no one else has?
Given all the references to “AI”, I think the first case is probably more accurate.
I find it to be quite humorous that in order to see the credentials of this team of guys requires you to have a Twitter account. That is of course, if those links point to credentials and not to đź’©.
posted by njohnson23 at 11:22 AM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Given all the references to “AI”, I think the first case is probably more accurate.
I find it to be quite humorous that in order to see the credentials of this team of guys requires you to have a Twitter account. That is of course, if those links point to credentials and not to đź’©.
posted by njohnson23 at 11:22 AM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
AskMeFi solved this question with the best answer ages ago.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 11:22 AM on July 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 11:22 AM on July 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm beginning to accrue evidence that the person responsible is given to self-serving hyperbole.
posted by credulous at 11:23 AM on July 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by credulous at 11:23 AM on July 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
> There's a kind of dark forest thing here where, if we think it might be possible to hack the Matrix, we should under no circumstances allow anyone to try, just in case they 1) succeed and become a god, or 2) succeed and piss off whoever's outside the simulation.
oh god my hobbyhorse. i must jump on it.
(tl;dr: take simulationists seriously until they mention computers or anything resembling computers and then laugh at them, because the moment they mention computers they've revealed themselves as dummy-dums).
so anyway, i like that the simulationist hypothesis is around. i really really like that the simulationist hypothesis is around. not because i think the hypothesis is any good — i don't, or i guess to be precise i'd say that the aspects of the hypothesis that are interesting are the ones that the people making the hypothesis run away from — but because it's so useful for identifying which people are idiots.
here's the deal: the simulationist hypothesis doesn't say what its supporters think it says. the baseline idea is that:
why is this a top-notch buffoon trap? because when an idiot sees that, they think "maybe we can, from inside the simulated universe, ferret out information about the simulating universe, and once we've done that the sky's the limit, right? if we're in a simulation we're just in a big ol' computer! forget hacking the planet! let's hack the universe!"
and don't get me wrong, i am a big big fan of hacking the universe, i am convinced that we have exited the anthropocene and entered a time period which i provisionally refer to as the "lolyolocene," and there's nothing more lol yolo than hacking the universe.
but nevertheless, we now have our idiot detector in place, because our idiot has just made a jump from "we make simulations in computers, which use coded instructions to generate rules that from the inside look like a coherent self-supporting system of physics" to "simulations are things that happen in computers so if we're in a simulation we're in a computer."
why the blistering hell would that be true? why are you, you unimaginative jackass, positing a similarity between the rules of our simulated universe and the rules of the universe doing the simulating? what makes you think that we inside the simulation can say anything at all about the exterior universe? does it resemble ours in any particular? does it differ from ours in every particular? both you and I know that we can't answer those questions, because no one inside the simulation can know the relationship between the rules of the simulated universe and the rules of the simulating universe, because the physics and everything inside the simulation are arbitrary, bearing no necessary connection whatsoever to the physics and everything outside it.
most simulation-detection plans strategically ignore the necessary discontinuity between the physics of the simulated universe and the physics of the simulating universe. for example, when someone says "let's do a lot of really complicated, hard to simulate high-energy particle physics and see if the system running the simulation slows down or starts glitching," that person is making the assumption that something that's expensive to simulate in the simulation is going to be expensive to simulate in the simulating universe. and that is very specifically the thing we can't say, because we are creatures of the simulated universe with no direct access to that universe's substrate or the rules of that substrate.
so what are we saying when we say the universe is simulatable? we're not saying "dude we're in a machine maybe we can figure out a way to see out," we're saying "there is a potential discontinuity in the laws of physics between different regions of the universe." that's a very different claim! that's a fundamentally metaphysical claim, the truth or nontruth of which is inaccessible by empirical means. and don't get me wrong, i think metaphysical claims are interesting, i am a big big fan of metaphysical claims, i'm such a huge fan of metaphysical claims that i get actively pissed off when a pack of vainglorious buffoons stand up on their hind legs and start doing metaphysics so badly.
like, come on, dudes, you think up a system that establishes a veil of absolute unknowability between one region of the universe (the simulation) and another (the simulator) and then talk like it's obvious what's on the other side of that veil? do you think your unpierceable opaque veil is something you can look straight through, some kind of glass onion?
dumb, dumb, dumb.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 11:32 AM on July 14, 2023 [57 favorites]
oh god my hobbyhorse. i must jump on it.
(tl;dr: take simulationists seriously until they mention computers or anything resembling computers and then laugh at them, because the moment they mention computers they've revealed themselves as dummy-dums).
so anyway, i like that the simulationist hypothesis is around. i really really like that the simulationist hypothesis is around. not because i think the hypothesis is any good — i don't, or i guess to be precise i'd say that the aspects of the hypothesis that are interesting are the ones that the people making the hypothesis run away from — but because it's so useful for identifying which people are idiots.
here's the deal: the simulationist hypothesis doesn't say what its supporters think it says. the baseline idea is that:
- if universes are simulatable (which we're not sure about but which is not on the face of it wrong), and
- if universes are sufficiently easily simulatable that a bunch of simulated universes can be embedded in one universe, or, even better
- if simulated universes can have sub-simulations in them, then
- we are almost certainly living in a simulation (i feel like there's a misapplication of statistics there, but let's let it pass. we're not at our buffoon detector yet.)
- what is a simulation
why is this a top-notch buffoon trap? because when an idiot sees that, they think "maybe we can, from inside the simulated universe, ferret out information about the simulating universe, and once we've done that the sky's the limit, right? if we're in a simulation we're just in a big ol' computer! forget hacking the planet! let's hack the universe!"
and don't get me wrong, i am a big big fan of hacking the universe, i am convinced that we have exited the anthropocene and entered a time period which i provisionally refer to as the "lolyolocene," and there's nothing more lol yolo than hacking the universe.
but nevertheless, we now have our idiot detector in place, because our idiot has just made a jump from "we make simulations in computers, which use coded instructions to generate rules that from the inside look like a coherent self-supporting system of physics" to "simulations are things that happen in computers so if we're in a simulation we're in a computer."
why the blistering hell would that be true? why are you, you unimaginative jackass, positing a similarity between the rules of our simulated universe and the rules of the universe doing the simulating? what makes you think that we inside the simulation can say anything at all about the exterior universe? does it resemble ours in any particular? does it differ from ours in every particular? both you and I know that we can't answer those questions, because no one inside the simulation can know the relationship between the rules of the simulated universe and the rules of the simulating universe, because the physics and everything inside the simulation are arbitrary, bearing no necessary connection whatsoever to the physics and everything outside it.
most simulation-detection plans strategically ignore the necessary discontinuity between the physics of the simulated universe and the physics of the simulating universe. for example, when someone says "let's do a lot of really complicated, hard to simulate high-energy particle physics and see if the system running the simulation slows down or starts glitching," that person is making the assumption that something that's expensive to simulate in the simulation is going to be expensive to simulate in the simulating universe. and that is very specifically the thing we can't say, because we are creatures of the simulated universe with no direct access to that universe's substrate or the rules of that substrate.
so what are we saying when we say the universe is simulatable? we're not saying "dude we're in a machine maybe we can figure out a way to see out," we're saying "there is a potential discontinuity in the laws of physics between different regions of the universe." that's a very different claim! that's a fundamentally metaphysical claim, the truth or nontruth of which is inaccessible by empirical means. and don't get me wrong, i think metaphysical claims are interesting, i am a big big fan of metaphysical claims, i'm such a huge fan of metaphysical claims that i get actively pissed off when a pack of vainglorious buffoons stand up on their hind legs and start doing metaphysics so badly.
like, come on, dudes, you think up a system that establishes a veil of absolute unknowability between one region of the universe (the simulation) and another (the simulator) and then talk like it's obvious what's on the other side of that veil? do you think your unpierceable opaque veil is something you can look straight through, some kind of glass onion?
dumb, dumb, dumb.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 11:32 AM on July 14, 2023 [57 favorites]
Not a single hard science person listed that I could see. All computer people, no physicists.
They're going to end up discovering how the imaginary universe they create in a computer works, but not the actual universe.
posted by hippybear at 11:32 AM on July 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
They're going to end up discovering how the imaginary universe they create in a computer works, but not the actual universe.
posted by hippybear at 11:32 AM on July 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
rich techie who strongly believed in the "simulation hypothesis" and had hired some programmers to basically hack the simulation
I saw this episode of Doctor Who. Peter Capaldi was brilliant.
posted by Servo5678 at 11:32 AM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I saw this episode of Doctor Who. Peter Capaldi was brilliant.
posted by Servo5678 at 11:32 AM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
lolyolocene. yep. we are in it.
posted by supermedusa at 11:44 AM on July 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 11:44 AM on July 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
I was going to make a Peter Molyneux joke, but honestly, that doesn't seem fair to Peter Molyneux.
posted by chromecow at 11:50 AM on July 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by chromecow at 11:50 AM on July 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
My faith in Rokos basilisk assures me that Musk’s judgement by our coming AI masters will be certain. I for one welcome our new AI overlords and look forward to helping them.
posted by interogative mood at 12:00 PM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 12:00 PM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think Musk read Our Mathematical Universe or similar book and took it at face value (the whole Computable Universe Hypothesis thing is hand wavy enough to align with hack-it-from the inside simulationists).
At first I thought it was to get access to the parallel universe where he IS smart and sexy and funny and no one ever leaves him, but then I remembered something and had to go look it up: “When the number of yous increases, you perceive subjective randomness. When the number of yous decreases, you perceive subjective immortality.”
Now it is clear to me that Musk is on a mission to kill all other Musks, an infinite number, to be the only one and thus immortal.
BTW, I was looking at a recall notice for a device I bought and found out, maybe it’s old news for you all, that in 2022 the The Tesla Cyberquad for Kids (a 2k quad bike for kids inspired by the cybertruck and sold exclusively through Tesla) got recalled for, according to the CSPC, “fails to comply with the federal mandatory safety standard requirements for youth ATVs, including mechanical suspension and maximum tire pressure.” And we were worried that it was through self driving algorithms that Musk would first cause children to die.
posted by Dr. Curare at 12:00 PM on July 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
At first I thought it was to get access to the parallel universe where he IS smart and sexy and funny and no one ever leaves him, but then I remembered something and had to go look it up: “When the number of yous increases, you perceive subjective randomness. When the number of yous decreases, you perceive subjective immortality.”
Now it is clear to me that Musk is on a mission to kill all other Musks, an infinite number, to be the only one and thus immortal.
BTW, I was looking at a recall notice for a device I bought and found out, maybe it’s old news for you all, that in 2022 the The Tesla Cyberquad for Kids (a 2k quad bike for kids inspired by the cybertruck and sold exclusively through Tesla) got recalled for, according to the CSPC, “fails to comply with the federal mandatory safety standard requirements for youth ATVs, including mechanical suspension and maximum tire pressure.” And we were worried that it was through self driving algorithms that Musk would first cause children to die.
posted by Dr. Curare at 12:00 PM on July 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
the physics and everything inside the simulation are arbitrary, bearing no necessary connection whatsoever to the physics and everything outside it
And it's even worse than that, because even if the physics and everything inside the simulation are computations, identical computations can provably be performed on literally anything capable of emulating enough of a Turing machine. So the simulator's architecture is unknowable, even within its unknowable physics.
I think Musk read Our Mathematical Universe or similar book
I think he got Rogan to precis it for him.
posted by flabdablet at 12:08 PM on July 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
And it's even worse than that, because even if the physics and everything inside the simulation are computations, identical computations can provably be performed on literally anything capable of emulating enough of a Turing machine. So the simulator's architecture is unknowable, even within its unknowable physics.
I think Musk read Our Mathematical Universe or similar book
I think he got Rogan to precis it for him.
posted by flabdablet at 12:08 PM on July 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Calling it now, our universe is a simulation run by a bored accountant on the celestial equivalent of Excel. Musk is going to get us erased when he causes the payroll table to mess up tax withholding.
posted by Eddie Mars at 12:16 PM on July 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Eddie Mars at 12:16 PM on July 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Lo, the many ways the Musk finds to diddle his flacid ego.
posted by BlueHorse at 12:19 PM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by BlueHorse at 12:19 PM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Musk is going to get us erased when he causes the payroll table to mess up tax withholding
It's OK. I've already rigged a Raspberry Pi in my back shed for the simulator to fail over onto when he does that. It's a bit slow but we won't notice. Self-hosting ftw, baby.
posted by flabdablet at 12:20 PM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's OK. I've already rigged a Raspberry Pi in my back shed for the simulator to fail over onto when he does that. It's a bit slow but we won't notice. Self-hosting ftw, baby.
posted by flabdablet at 12:20 PM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Man, eff that guy
posted by Going To Maine at 12:25 PM on July 14, 2023
posted by Going To Maine at 12:25 PM on July 14, 2023
So...what exactly are they going to do?
Does it matter?
posted by Naberius at 12:28 PM on July 14, 2023
Does it matter?
posted by Naberius at 12:28 PM on July 14, 2023
Another bit of performative art designed to sucker marks out of their money, either investors or fanbois.
posted by Wetterschneider at 12:31 PM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Wetterschneider at 12:31 PM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
> identical computations can provably be performed on literally anything capable of emulating enough of a Turing machine.
we can't even get that far, since we can't say anything about the nature or even the existence of anything that is or resembles math in the outside universe. like even if you go whole-hog into mathematical platonism (don't do this, mathematicians, it is wrong, mathematical platonism is wrong) even if you go whole-hog into mathematical platonism i don't think you get to say anything about whether the ideality of math extends past the boundaries of the simulation.
and like why are we talking about that silly plato guy when everyone knows that parmenides was right about everything
sorry, felt compelled to mention parmenides just because i think the simulationists come very very close to some interestingly parmenidean concepts but they're too self-regarding to follow their own logic to its parmenidean conclusion
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 12:36 PM on July 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
we can't even get that far, since we can't say anything about the nature or even the existence of anything that is or resembles math in the outside universe. like even if you go whole-hog into mathematical platonism (don't do this, mathematicians, it is wrong, mathematical platonism is wrong) even if you go whole-hog into mathematical platonism i don't think you get to say anything about whether the ideality of math extends past the boundaries of the simulation.
and like why are we talking about that silly plato guy when everyone knows that parmenides was right about everything
sorry, felt compelled to mention parmenides just because i think the simulationists come very very close to some interestingly parmenidean concepts but they're too self-regarding to follow their own logic to its parmenidean conclusion
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 12:36 PM on July 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
Our team is led by Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla and SpaceX.
Ok, I do find it a bit delightful his one-line bio doesn't mention Twitter.
posted by coffeecat at 12:45 PM on July 14, 2023 [20 favorites]
Ok, I do find it a bit delightful his one-line bio doesn't mention Twitter.
posted by coffeecat at 12:45 PM on July 14, 2023 [20 favorites]
since we can't say anything about the nature or even the existence of anything that is or resembles math in the outside universe
That's why I added that heavy qualification about if the hypothetical simulation is a computation, specifically not choosing to say anything about either non-computational simulation or outer-world vaguely-computation-likes. My point is that even if a simulating world's physics and mathematics substantially resemble ours, perhaps on the basis of handwavey metaphysics about the inevitability of homomorphisms across all such systems, computational simulation can still glean no information about what it's running on.
Unless, of course, the simulator is a janky cheap-ass bug-ridden clusterfuck that doesn't do what it claims to. Which, come to think of it, Phony Stark is the right man to replicate.
posted by flabdablet at 12:51 PM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
That's why I added that heavy qualification about if the hypothetical simulation is a computation, specifically not choosing to say anything about either non-computational simulation or outer-world vaguely-computation-likes. My point is that even if a simulating world's physics and mathematics substantially resemble ours, perhaps on the basis of handwavey metaphysics about the inevitability of homomorphisms across all such systems, computational simulation can still glean no information about what it's running on.
Unless, of course, the simulator is a janky cheap-ass bug-ridden clusterfuck that doesn't do what it claims to. Which, come to think of it, Phony Stark is the right man to replicate.
posted by flabdablet at 12:51 PM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
“Our Mathematical Universe”. When that book came out, the author Tegmark was on NPR to promote the book. I called in and asked if the math was just a model of the universe, and being a model it was like a map, and that we all know the map is not the territory. The NPR guy said, Yeah, what about that? Tegmark sort of hemmed and hawed and didn’t answer the question.
posted by njohnson23 at 1:11 PM on July 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 1:11 PM on July 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
The NPR guy said, Yeah, what about that?
That would have been the venerable Neal Conan, whose on-air call-in show skills have never been equaled in the history of interviewing with live questions. When Talk Of The Nation was unceremoniously cancelled, I feel life lost a lot of color that day.
posted by hippybear at 1:23 PM on July 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
That would have been the venerable Neal Conan, whose on-air call-in show skills have never been equaled in the history of interviewing with live questions. When Talk Of The Nation was unceremoniously cancelled, I feel life lost a lot of color that day.
posted by hippybear at 1:23 PM on July 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
I mean, it should be no surprise that people who live in reality distortion fields become obsessed with knowing and then controlling the very nature of reality.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 1:30 PM on July 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by RonButNotStupid at 1:30 PM on July 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
> I mean, it should be no surprise that people who live in reality distortion fields become obsessed with knowing and then controlling the very nature of reality.
hey. hey! i would like to know and then control the very nature of reality, or at the very least know the very nature of reality and then politely persuade it to make existence more tenable as a place to exist in. as i see it there is nothing wrong about wanting to unlock the secrets of the universe or whatever.
but god though this placeholder for an idea that elon musk hopes to have some day is so dumb. the broad vague portfolio alone marks it as dumb — i feel like a student just told me that they want to write their dissertation on the topic of "death and stuff" and then refused to further elaborate.
i hate this so much that i've gotta go listen to penelope scott now.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 2:11 PM on July 14, 2023 [15 favorites]
hey. hey! i would like to know and then control the very nature of reality, or at the very least know the very nature of reality and then politely persuade it to make existence more tenable as a place to exist in. as i see it there is nothing wrong about wanting to unlock the secrets of the universe or whatever.
but god though this placeholder for an idea that elon musk hopes to have some day is so dumb. the broad vague portfolio alone marks it as dumb — i feel like a student just told me that they want to write their dissertation on the topic of "death and stuff" and then refused to further elaborate.
i hate this so much that i've gotta go listen to penelope scott now.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 2:11 PM on July 14, 2023 [15 favorites]
placeholder for an idea that elon musk hopes to have some day
This is a good description.
posted by mhoye at 2:19 PM on July 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
This is a good description.
posted by mhoye at 2:19 PM on July 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
when you get down to it i don't trust anyone, i really don't, who doesn't think that (for example) we really should get around to solving that whole death thing.
Flip side of that is me, who doesn't trust anyone, I really don't, who thinks that death per se is a problem.
Premature death, sure. Violent death, sure. Suffering in the leadup to death, sure. But death itself? Nah. If living things didn't die we'd just pile up all over.
posted by flabdablet at 2:20 PM on July 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
Flip side of that is me, who doesn't trust anyone, I really don't, who thinks that death per se is a problem.
Premature death, sure. Violent death, sure. Suffering in the leadup to death, sure. But death itself? Nah. If living things didn't die we'd just pile up all over.
posted by flabdablet at 2:20 PM on July 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
The idea that entities from a simulated world are by definition not capable of determining anything about the world of the simulators seems to be based on ill-founded assumptions to me. It may be true in certain cases, but it clearly depends upon the nature of the simulation. Truman, for example, determined things about the Truman Show.
I'll shut up now, mainly because I have very little confidence that I understand pretty much anything about this post, but I did just want to add that.
posted by Flunkie at 2:31 PM on July 14, 2023
I'll shut up now, mainly because I have very little confidence that I understand pretty much anything about this post, but I did just want to add that.
posted by Flunkie at 2:31 PM on July 14, 2023
>> when you get down to it i don't trust anyone, i really don't, who doesn't think that (for example) we really should get around to solving that whole death thing.
> Flip side of that is me, who doesn't trust anyone, I really don't, who thinks that death per se is a problem.
whoops, thought i got that line out of there faster than i did.
anyway: we are on opposite sides of an incommensurable divide which neither of us will ever cross and that's cool. no minds will be changed this day, but there's no harm in that. for my part i can't get past the idea that death marks the retroactive obliteration of not just a prospective future but of the past and present as well, and as such is indicative of the nonexistence — again, not just in the future but at all potential moments — of any potential self, or anything pertaining to a self, or anything for a self to perceive.
and i'm like, given that we always-already don't exist we might as well go down swinging, go down into the voidness that we're already in, i mean, even if all of the things we can do to death right now are about as effective as punching the pacific ocean.
i've punched that ocean. i've punched that ocean, i've kicked that ocean, i've thrown a knife at that ocean, and let me tell you i'd do it all again. taste my fist, pacific ocean. fear my tiny wrath.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 2:34 PM on July 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
> Flip side of that is me, who doesn't trust anyone, I really don't, who thinks that death per se is a problem.
whoops, thought i got that line out of there faster than i did.
anyway: we are on opposite sides of an incommensurable divide which neither of us will ever cross and that's cool. no minds will be changed this day, but there's no harm in that. for my part i can't get past the idea that death marks the retroactive obliteration of not just a prospective future but of the past and present as well, and as such is indicative of the nonexistence — again, not just in the future but at all potential moments — of any potential self, or anything pertaining to a self, or anything for a self to perceive.
and i'm like, given that we always-already don't exist we might as well go down swinging, go down into the voidness that we're already in, i mean, even if all of the things we can do to death right now are about as effective as punching the pacific ocean.
i've punched that ocean. i've punched that ocean, i've kicked that ocean, i've thrown a knife at that ocean, and let me tell you i'd do it all again. taste my fist, pacific ocean. fear my tiny wrath.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 2:34 PM on July 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
i can't get past the idea that death marks the retroactive obliteration of not just a prospective future but of the past and present as well
So when Isaac Newton died, everything he did in his lifetime just didn't matter anymore? Because I think history contradicts that assertion.
posted by hippybear at 2:41 PM on July 14, 2023
So when Isaac Newton died, everything he did in his lifetime just didn't matter anymore? Because I think history contradicts that assertion.
posted by hippybear at 2:41 PM on July 14, 2023
As with all of Elon Musk's ideas, this is obviously stupid. But in this case, it has a lovely fractal stupidity about it: If we take his premise seriously---we're in a simulation---then he believes this simulation is so shoddy that a handful of AI researchers are going to be able to find the seams. I don't know why you'd hire AI researchers to do this, unless it's somehow wrapped up in singularity nonsense. It seems like you'd hire physicists if you were trying to poke holes in reality, but what do I know. I truly hope it's all actually just an excuse for these dudes to hang out and do ketamine.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 2:45 PM on July 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 2:45 PM on July 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
> It may be true in certain cases, but it clearly depends upon the nature of the simulation. Truman, for example, determined things about the Truman Show.
right — but statements about the nature of the simulation are necessarily themselves metaphysical. well, and the truman show was a fiction about someone living in a fiction made by people in the universe, rather than someone living in an actually entirely simulated-from-soup-to-nuts simulation. maybe the outside is in some fundamental way analogous to the simulation and comprehensible in terms of the simulation, but maybe it isn't — if there's an answer to what outside is, it's by necessity metaphysical rather than something that can be reached by empirical means, and there are no guarantees that the experience of seeing outside the simulation we're in is anything like the experience of things within simulations we make ourselves. we're in unknown lands.
i mean okay etymological arguments aren't great but right now we're talking about something that is beyond physics. how could it not be metaphysics?
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 2:53 PM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
right — but statements about the nature of the simulation are necessarily themselves metaphysical. well, and the truman show was a fiction about someone living in a fiction made by people in the universe, rather than someone living in an actually entirely simulated-from-soup-to-nuts simulation. maybe the outside is in some fundamental way analogous to the simulation and comprehensible in terms of the simulation, but maybe it isn't — if there's an answer to what outside is, it's by necessity metaphysical rather than something that can be reached by empirical means, and there are no guarantees that the experience of seeing outside the simulation we're in is anything like the experience of things within simulations we make ourselves. we're in unknown lands.
i mean okay etymological arguments aren't great but right now we're talking about something that is beyond physics. how could it not be metaphysics?
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 2:53 PM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
eponysterical
posted by Flunkie at 2:59 PM on July 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Flunkie at 2:59 PM on July 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
> So when Isaac Newton died, everything he did in his lifetime just didn't matter anymore? Because I think history contradicts that assertion.
i think likely the thing that is weird about my sense of the universe is that i can't shake off a conviction in radical presentism; whatever past there is is embedded in the present, likewise whatever future there might be.
under these terms the revocation of the present in which a past and future can be embedded results in the obliteration of not just the present and not just potential futures but of the actual past itself, because the existence of the past is the memory of the past in the present. appealing to the memory of the past experienced by living others in the new present moments they continue to experience is just a way to kick the can down the road a little.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 3:04 PM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
i think likely the thing that is weird about my sense of the universe is that i can't shake off a conviction in radical presentism; whatever past there is is embedded in the present, likewise whatever future there might be.
under these terms the revocation of the present in which a past and future can be embedded results in the obliteration of not just the present and not just potential futures but of the actual past itself, because the existence of the past is the memory of the past in the present. appealing to the memory of the past experienced by living others in the new present moments they continue to experience is just a way to kick the can down the road a little.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 3:04 PM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
i hate this so much that i've gotta go listen to penelope scott now.
This is exactly my reaction when this stuff comes up, too. Glad I'm not the only one.
There's just something cathartic about
Fuck your tunnels
Fuck your cars
Fuck your rockets
Fuck your cars again
...I should figure out how to throw her some $ for the number of times this song has regulated my anger.
posted by rhiannonstone at 3:51 PM on July 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
This is exactly my reaction when this stuff comes up, too. Glad I'm not the only one.
There's just something cathartic about
Fuck your tunnels
Fuck your cars
Fuck your rockets
Fuck your cars again
...I should figure out how to throw her some $ for the number of times this song has regulated my anger.
posted by rhiannonstone at 3:51 PM on July 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
Infinite duration existence opens the door to infinite suffering. Let the billionaires build their own cyber-hell, I will pick nonexistence if it's an option.
posted by Pyry at 5:03 PM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Pyry at 5:03 PM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
A friendly reminder of the time he launched a robot company in 2021 by having a dude in spandex come out and dance a jig.
posted by Tacodog at 5:08 PM on July 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Tacodog at 5:08 PM on July 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Christ I am so fucking tired of this dumbass and his juvenile ideas. He’s living proof that humanity is fundamentally stupid on a genetic level — that this loudly ignorant fucker is fantastically wealthy and beloved by idiots everywhere because of how smart his dumbass ideas are.
God, it makes me want to go start grifting these fools, to hell with morality and/or criminal law.
posted by aramaic at 7:00 PM on July 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
God, it makes me want to go start grifting these fools, to hell with morality and/or criminal law.
posted by aramaic at 7:00 PM on July 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
God, it makes me want to go start grifting these fools, to hell with morality and/or criminal law.
There's an application form to work for them if you want to grift from the inside, right on their website.
posted by hippybear at 7:07 PM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
There's an application form to work for them if you want to grift from the inside, right on their website.
posted by hippybear at 7:07 PM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
what is a simulation
no, seriously, what's a simulation? the buffoons do a little bit of cute sleight of hand here, and most of them (because they are idiots) probably don't even realize they're doing it. here in our universe, if we're talking about a simulation we're talking about stuff happening in a computer.
People also see 'simulation' and assume 'happening in a computer' because they are historically ignorant and incurious. There is a grand history of types of simulation that has nothing to do with and which predates computers.
Hilariously, Melon Husk is even personally familiar with a second branch of the history of simulation; he has played Dungeons and Dragons, which was adapted from historical wargaming, which goes back to 1780 in Prussia; the first wargame used no mathematics beyond counting the number of moves, and you need no major jumps to draw a line from there through Kreigspeil and eventually to D&D, which was after all published originally by Tactical Studies Rules, Inc.
But that's not all, of course; he's also got some familiarity with a third branch of simulation, scale model simulation, where the forces in or on a large structure are tested with a miniaturized version. It would be preposterous for someone involved in either the aerospace or automotive industries to be unfamiliar with the wind tunnel, which is a 150+ year old analog technology still being used as such today; like here's a Tesla vehicle being wind tunnel tested this past spring.
There are other scale model simulations than wind tunnels, though; there's structural scale models, where either a small scale version of a structure or a life-size version of a small portion of a structure (a unusual joint between materials, for instance) are tested with some forces that are expected; this would also include the shake table that tests structures in earthquake-prone areas for resonance. There's also a history of hydraulic scale simulation, including a 200-acre scale model of the Mississippi river that was built in Jackson, MS, and a 1:1000 scale simulation of the San Francisco Bay that is still operating in a former aircraft hangar in Sausalito.
But while I'm on the topic of simulation using water, I need to tell you about MONIAC, a simulation of a national economy -- interest rates, investment, household consumption, imports and exports, GDP, taxes, currency exchange rates -- all the big components. It uses water flowing through pipes and into tanks to do the simulation; here's a 5 minute quick video and a longer hour if you want.
So let's imagine that a drop of water has as much intelligence as a billionaire multi-CEO. What chance does it have to learn about the Federal Reserve, much less the actual real economy that consists of people spending money?
posted by Superilla at 8:58 PM on July 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
no, seriously, what's a simulation? the buffoons do a little bit of cute sleight of hand here, and most of them (because they are idiots) probably don't even realize they're doing it. here in our universe, if we're talking about a simulation we're talking about stuff happening in a computer.
People also see 'simulation' and assume 'happening in a computer' because they are historically ignorant and incurious. There is a grand history of types of simulation that has nothing to do with and which predates computers.
Hilariously, Melon Husk is even personally familiar with a second branch of the history of simulation; he has played Dungeons and Dragons, which was adapted from historical wargaming, which goes back to 1780 in Prussia; the first wargame used no mathematics beyond counting the number of moves, and you need no major jumps to draw a line from there through Kreigspeil and eventually to D&D, which was after all published originally by Tactical Studies Rules, Inc.
But that's not all, of course; he's also got some familiarity with a third branch of simulation, scale model simulation, where the forces in or on a large structure are tested with a miniaturized version. It would be preposterous for someone involved in either the aerospace or automotive industries to be unfamiliar with the wind tunnel, which is a 150+ year old analog technology still being used as such today; like here's a Tesla vehicle being wind tunnel tested this past spring.
There are other scale model simulations than wind tunnels, though; there's structural scale models, where either a small scale version of a structure or a life-size version of a small portion of a structure (a unusual joint between materials, for instance) are tested with some forces that are expected; this would also include the shake table that tests structures in earthquake-prone areas for resonance. There's also a history of hydraulic scale simulation, including a 200-acre scale model of the Mississippi river that was built in Jackson, MS, and a 1:1000 scale simulation of the San Francisco Bay that is still operating in a former aircraft hangar in Sausalito.
But while I'm on the topic of simulation using water, I need to tell you about MONIAC, a simulation of a national economy -- interest rates, investment, household consumption, imports and exports, GDP, taxes, currency exchange rates -- all the big components. It uses water flowing through pipes and into tanks to do the simulation; here's a 5 minute quick video and a longer hour if you want.
So let's imagine that a drop of water has as much intelligence as a billionaire multi-CEO. What chance does it have to learn about the Federal Reserve, much less the actual real economy that consists of people spending money?
posted by Superilla at 8:58 PM on July 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
That would have been the venerable Neal Conan, whose on-air call-in show skills have never been equaled in the history of interviewing with live questions.
Which is presumably why he was a Marvel comics character.
posted by The Tensor at 8:58 PM on July 14, 2023
Which is presumably why he was a Marvel comics character.
posted by The Tensor at 8:58 PM on July 14, 2023
Apparently the new hires were told the new company was already worth $20 billion.
it's not about how much stock you have; it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building with.
posted by credulous at 11:15 PM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
it's not about how much stock you have; it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building with.
posted by credulous at 11:15 PM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
the revocation of the present in which a past and future can be embedded results in the obliteration of not just the present and not just potential futures but of the actual past itself
Sure, but where's your evidence that your death, or mine, or that of any living thing, constitutes revocation of the present? That really only works if you assume solipsism, which strikes me as an utterly inadequate metaphysics; in less idiotic frameworks, death results in the obliteration of at most some organism's map of the territory it's spent its lifetime exploring. Or is the "death" you're trying to "solve" even more bombastic than I've given you credit for?
taste my fist, pacific ocean. fear my tiny wrath.
ocean says "splosh"
posted by flabdablet at 11:26 PM on July 14, 2023
Sure, but where's your evidence that your death, or mine, or that of any living thing, constitutes revocation of the present? That really only works if you assume solipsism, which strikes me as an utterly inadequate metaphysics; in less idiotic frameworks, death results in the obliteration of at most some organism's map of the territory it's spent its lifetime exploring. Or is the "death" you're trying to "solve" even more bombastic than I've given you credit for?
taste my fist, pacific ocean. fear my tiny wrath.
ocean says "splosh"
posted by flabdablet at 11:26 PM on July 14, 2023
If a company achieves understanding of the universe, what then would be its business model? You too can truly know the cosmos for $999.99 per month with our platinum subscription? Partially grok some of the universe from only $99.99? Or perhaps a 'free' product delivering fundamental insights into the very nature of existence mixed with 'sponsored content' and tailored advertising?
posted by misteraitch at 11:53 PM on July 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by misteraitch at 11:53 PM on July 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
Perhaps you can buy a blue checkmark attesting that you understand the Universe for $8 per month?
posted by flabdablet at 12:01 AM on July 15, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 12:01 AM on July 15, 2023 [4 favorites]
So...what exactly are they going to do?
1. Spend a significant amount of other peoples money
2. Spend a significant amount of Elongated Muskrat's money
3. Create very little value for shareholders or anyone else (the programmers will probably be paid pretty well, though)
4. Provide a certain type of person on Reddit large amounts of half-understood concepts that they will discuss ad nauseum in the mistaken belief that it makes them appear intelligent
5. Possibly bring about the sudden end of our universe through hubristic meddling
Does it matter?
Depends on where you're sitting. For most of us probably not.
posted by ananci at 2:00 AM on July 15, 2023
1. Spend a significant amount of other peoples money
2. Spend a significant amount of Elongated Muskrat's money
3. Create very little value for shareholders or anyone else (the programmers will probably be paid pretty well, though)
4. Provide a certain type of person on Reddit large amounts of half-understood concepts that they will discuss ad nauseum in the mistaken belief that it makes them appear intelligent
5. Possibly bring about the sudden end of our universe through hubristic meddling
Does it matter?
Depends on where you're sitting. For most of us probably not.
posted by ananci at 2:00 AM on July 15, 2023
a new company founded by Elon Musk that sets out to Understand the Universe
I find it difficult to believe that Musk understands a concept as simple as door handles, let alone The Universe.
"Why can't I turn it the other way?"
"Because it won't open then, Elon."
"But I want to turn it the other way."
"..."
"It's broken, look..."
"It's not broken, Elon. Turn it the other way."
"I don't want to turn it the other way. Wokists broke it."
posted by Grangousier at 2:19 AM on July 15, 2023 [4 favorites]
I find it difficult to believe that Musk understands a concept as simple as door handles, let alone The Universe.
"Why can't I turn it the other way?"
"Because it won't open then, Elon."
"But I want to turn it the other way."
"..."
"It's broken, look..."
"It's not broken, Elon. Turn it the other way."
"I don't want to turn it the other way. Wokists broke it."
posted by Grangousier at 2:19 AM on July 15, 2023 [4 favorites]
This feels like Musk's just read that old Greg Egan story about a billionaire with a universe simulator supercomputer which he uses to evolve artificial intelligences, then force them to learn real-world physics.
posted by ver at 2:44 AM on July 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by ver at 2:44 AM on July 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
Concerning
posted by Reyturner at 7:46 AM on July 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Reyturner at 7:46 AM on July 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
I notice there are no women on that landing page. Either this means women are too smart for this shit, or (more likely) women aren't real, and this will be verified when their research is all done and they understand the universe.
posted by Gorgik at 7:56 AM on July 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Gorgik at 7:56 AM on July 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
Could this simulation just be Musk’s Truman Show? The universe exists for him only. Fits his mind set!
posted by njohnson23 at 8:28 AM on July 15, 2023
posted by njohnson23 at 8:28 AM on July 15, 2023
We joke but The Algorithm just resurfaced for me that wild interview with Grimes from last year where she tried to hide a secret baby in the same house as the reporter. But more pertinent, she mused that her and Musk often wonder if she is a real person, or just a simulation in Musk's mind of a perfect woman for him. I think Gen Z calls this Main Character syndrome - we are all NPCs in Musk's video game.
posted by muddgirl at 8:40 AM on July 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 8:40 AM on July 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
It's probably fine, the AI will probably just search for a better way to factor large numbers, y'know, as an academic exercise.
posted by credulous at 9:25 AM on July 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by credulous at 9:25 AM on July 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
I mean… will this project spread Nazi beliefs or anti vaccine lies or idiot political ideology to people? Will it destroy a communications platform that people use routinely for benign purposes? Sounds like a bunch of rich people smoking pot and having stupid “insights”. I hope people sell them fancy computers and lots of snacks and fleece them for every penny they have.
More seriously, is this Musk showing the beginning of mental health issues? Believing you are in a simulation and everyone you see is not really them but an actor playing them sounds like Capgras syndrome.
posted by Vatnesine at 9:56 AM on July 15, 2023
More seriously, is this Musk showing the beginning of mental health issues? Believing you are in a simulation and everyone you see is not really them but an actor playing them sounds like Capgras syndrome.
posted by Vatnesine at 9:56 AM on July 15, 2023
Apparently the staff includes some pretty good automatic theorem proving people
posted by grobstein at 11:23 AM on July 14 [+] [!]
A bunch of Cocks? (that's a joke about the "Coq Proof Assistant", people, sheesh!)
posted by symbioid at 10:14 AM on July 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by grobstein at 11:23 AM on July 14 [+] [!]
A bunch of Cocks? (that's a joke about the "Coq Proof Assistant", people, sheesh!)
posted by symbioid at 10:14 AM on July 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's impressing the Musk fanbois.
PROOF Tesla Is Creating a WORLD MODEL!! (32m10s)
CURIOSITY Over MORALIZING: How Elon Musk's New XAI Will Be Fundamentally Different! (16m45s)
FSD Is SOLVED, and it Was SO SIMPLE--Elon Musk!! (17m21s)
(CW: Musk pontifications taken as factual, ELYA5 AI drivel, nutritional supplements and crypto being flogged in the video descriptions)
posted by flabdablet at 2:02 PM on July 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
PROOF Tesla Is Creating a WORLD MODEL!! (32m10s)
CURIOSITY Over MORALIZING: How Elon Musk's New XAI Will Be Fundamentally Different! (16m45s)
FSD Is SOLVED, and it Was SO SIMPLE--Elon Musk!! (17m21s)
(CW: Musk pontifications taken as factual, ELYA5 AI drivel, nutritional supplements and crypto being flogged in the video descriptions)
posted by flabdablet at 2:02 PM on July 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
Step 1: Understand the UNIVERSE
Step 2: Build self-driving cars
Step 3: Build tunnels, but faster
Step 4: Turn Twitter into a success
The first step — which, since it's not that simple — could take a few months or even a year. But, once that's in the bag and out of the way, steps 2-3 should be a breeze. Step 4, which would be pretty much the peak of simulated human creativity, well... I have my doubts if it can be done at all. Knowing how the universe works will probably be a hindrance if anything.
posted by UN at 8:12 AM on July 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Step 2: Build self-driving cars
Step 3: Build tunnels, but faster
Step 4: Turn Twitter into a success
The first step — which, since it's not that simple — could take a few months or even a year. But, once that's in the bag and out of the way, steps 2-3 should be a breeze. Step 4, which would be pretty much the peak of simulated human creativity, well... I have my doubts if it can be done at all. Knowing how the universe works will probably be a hindrance if anything.
posted by UN at 8:12 AM on July 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Eh, I kind of approve of this. But then, I approve of most enterprises that will redistribute Elon Musk's wealth to other people.
posted by suetanvil at 8:51 AM on July 18, 2023
posted by suetanvil at 8:51 AM on July 18, 2023
It occurs to me that if we're talking about exploiting glitches in our reality to hack an underlying reality, we've already done that. If the wavefunction collapse of quantum mechanics is just decoherence -- and wavefunction collapse looks suspiciously like decoherence -- then the underlying reality described by quantum mechanics is something utterly alien beyond lovecraftean horror.
posted by mscibing at 4:03 PM on July 18, 2023
posted by mscibing at 4:03 PM on July 18, 2023
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someone should tell all those people whose twitter accounts are linked on that page that some asshole is using their likenesses for a parody website
posted by logicpunk at 9:08 AM on July 14, 2023 [32 favorites]