An Assassination In The True North
September 18, 2023 2:56 PM Subscribe
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has formally accused the Indian government of involvement in the murder of Canadian Sikh leader Hardeep Singh Nijjar this past June. (SLCBC)
Nijjar, a Canadian citizen, had been an advocate for a Sikh home state and had been branded a terrorist by the Modi government. Prior to his murder, he had reported threats to his life as well as surveillance of by Indian intelligence. As part of this announcement, Canada has also formally expelled Indian intelligence chief Pavan Kumar Rain from the country.
Nijjar, a Canadian citizen, had been an advocate for a Sikh home state and had been branded a terrorist by the Modi government. Prior to his murder, he had reported threats to his life as well as surveillance of by Indian intelligence. As part of this announcement, Canada has also formally expelled Indian intelligence chief Pavan Kumar Rain from the country.
Wow.
posted by leotrotsky at 3:14 PM on September 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 3:14 PM on September 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
To the extent that the UK could not or did not respond to chemical and nuclear attacks on its soil, it raises questions of what Canada can actually do in response to an attack within its borders.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:27 PM on September 18, 2023
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:27 PM on September 18, 2023
This is very fire for Canada. Trudeau must have astonishing levels of proof.
posted by seanmpuckett at 3:42 PM on September 18, 2023 [21 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 3:42 PM on September 18, 2023 [21 favorites]
I’m not surprised at the possibility that this happened, but I’m very surprised they just came right out and said it. Honestly I tend to assume this sort of thing happens all the time, so my question is, what is it about this time that made Canada willing to actually make an accusation publicly?
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:43 PM on September 18, 2023 [18 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:43 PM on September 18, 2023 [18 favorites]
This may explain some of the tension between Modi & Trudeau at the G20 summit last week.
posted by nubs at 3:45 PM on September 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by nubs at 3:45 PM on September 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
it raises questions of what Canada can actually do in response to an attack within its borders.
We can continue to ask with a great deal of firmness that the government of India cooperate with Canada to shed light on this situation.
posted by mazola at 3:53 PM on September 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
We can continue to ask with a great deal of firmness that the government of India cooperate with Canada to shed light on this situation.
posted by mazola at 3:53 PM on September 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Honestly I tend to assume this sort of thing happens all the time, so my question is, what is it about this time that made Canada willing to actually make an accusation publicly?
It really doesn't, and to the degree it does, governments try to keep a degree of plausible deniability (see: the North Korean assassination of one of the extended Kim family a few years back, where they used a patsy who had no idea she was executing a hit.) And if Trudeau is publicly announcing this, the Canadians very likely have solid proof of Indian involvement, because you don't make such accusations and start booting diplomats otherwise.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:54 PM on September 18, 2023 [11 favorites]
It really doesn't, and to the degree it does, governments try to keep a degree of plausible deniability (see: the North Korean assassination of one of the extended Kim family a few years back, where they used a patsy who had no idea she was executing a hit.) And if Trudeau is publicly announcing this, the Canadians very likely have solid proof of Indian involvement, because you don't make such accusations and start booting diplomats otherwise.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:54 PM on September 18, 2023 [11 favorites]
We can continue to ask with a great deal of firmness that the government of India cooperate with Canada to shed light on this situation.
We've also paused trade talks and booted a senior diplomat; coming out in the open with this accusation is a pretty big step as well on a diplomatic level. Economic sanctions might be the next step, I guess, though I suspect by informing (and sharing the intel with) the UK, US, and France, there might be some hope of a united front on what the next steps are.
posted by nubs at 4:03 PM on September 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
We've also paused trade talks and booted a senior diplomat; coming out in the open with this accusation is a pretty big step as well on a diplomatic level. Economic sanctions might be the next step, I guess, though I suspect by informing (and sharing the intel with) the UK, US, and France, there might be some hope of a united front on what the next steps are.
posted by nubs at 4:03 PM on September 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
booted a senior diplomat
No, the Canadians booted India's chief spook. Which says a lot about what's going on.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:05 PM on September 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
No, the Canadians booted India's chief spook. Which says a lot about what's going on.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:05 PM on September 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
Such assassinations do happen on occasion, and are typically kept quiet. In this case it appears that the media caught wind and Trudeau wanted to get ahead of it.
By all reliable accounts Modi is an authoritarian bordering on fascist, so he is in a position to be generously slapped down.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 4:10 PM on September 18, 2023 [14 favorites]
By all reliable accounts Modi is an authoritarian bordering on fascist, so he is in a position to be generously slapped down.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 4:10 PM on September 18, 2023 [14 favorites]
For context, Wikipedia article on Sikhism in Canada. Sikhs represent a higher percentage of the total population in Canada than they do in India.
posted by lookoutbelow at 4:16 PM on September 18, 2023 [15 favorites]
posted by lookoutbelow at 4:16 PM on September 18, 2023 [15 favorites]
And a Sikh, Jagmeet Singh, is head of one of Canada's three major political parties (specifically, the NDP.) Needless to say, he is taking this as a rather personal message to himself and his kin, and had a rather furious response to the news.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:22 PM on September 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:22 PM on September 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
What's astonishing to me is not just that India might have assassinated a Canadian citizen in Canada. But they did so without getting a clandestine OK or maybe even telling the Canadians ahead of time. Which suggests India didn't think they could convince the Canadians of their claim the man was involved in a terrorist attack in Punjab. And they thought they could get away with the murder without getting caught. It's all a spectacular failure not just of law and human rights but also the politesse of diplomacy and espionage.
posted by Nelson at 4:30 PM on September 18, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 4:30 PM on September 18, 2023 [17 favorites]
It's all a spectacular failure not just of law and human rights but also the politesse of diplomacy and espionage.
I imagine that Modi has been looking to throw elbows in the Great Game, and felt that this was a way of doing so.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:32 PM on September 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
I imagine that Modi has been looking to throw elbows in the Great Game, and felt that this was a way of doing so.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:32 PM on September 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
...the politesse of diplomacy and espionage.
aka covert assassination.
posted by y2karl at 4:37 PM on September 18, 2023
aka covert assassination.
posted by y2karl at 4:37 PM on September 18, 2023
What's astonishing to me is not just that India might have assassinated a Canadian citizen in Canada. But they did so without getting a clandestine OK or maybe even telling the Canadians ahead of time.
It happens, and is usually kept quiet.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 4:38 PM on September 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
It happens, and is usually kept quiet.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 4:38 PM on September 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
1. What's astonishing to me is not just that India might have assassinated a Canadian citizen in Canada. But they did so without getting a clandestine OK or maybe even telling the Canadians ahead of time.
I'm sorry, but no democratic government would meekly acceded to a request or friendly heads up from another country to enter their territory and murder one of their citizens. Any politician or bureaucrat dumb enough to okay such an act would face multiple serious federal charges.
2. It happens, and is usually kept quiet.
No, it really doesn't. And citing the case of Gerald Bull, who was murdered in a third country, as 'proof' is clearly misleading.
posted by senor biggles at 5:10 PM on September 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
I'm sorry, but no democratic government would meekly acceded to a request or friendly heads up from another country to enter their territory and murder one of their citizens. Any politician or bureaucrat dumb enough to okay such an act would face multiple serious federal charges.
2. It happens, and is usually kept quiet.
No, it really doesn't. And citing the case of Gerald Bull, who was murdered in a third country, as 'proof' is clearly misleading.
posted by senor biggles at 5:10 PM on September 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
I suspect politics on Trudeau's part, get in front of the issue and force pollivere to take the side of a fascist third party, Modi. Pretty acute actually.
posted by Keith Talent at 5:49 PM on September 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Keith Talent at 5:49 PM on September 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
The CPC and conservative media was making a lot of hay over the apparent tension between Trudeau and Modi during Trudeau's visit to India, i.e. they implied Modi was snubbing Trudeau because he regards him as a lightweight, claimed Trudeau was damaging Canada's international standing, spoke admiringly about Modi, etc. Do they ever have egg on their faces now. Conservative leader Pierre Poilievre has refused to get the clearance necessary to be read in on security matters and doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
Also, Pierre Poilievre accidentally said the n-word in the House of Commons when he extended his condolences to the family of Hardeep Singh Nijjar. There's been concern that Polievre might be able to become Canada's PM in the next election, but while I certainly won't dismiss such a possibility entirely, my prediction is that he's going to prove to be a wash out, just as Rona Ambrose, Andrew Scheer, Erin O'Toole, and Candice Bergen all did. He's such an incompetent clown that he's constantly self-sabotaging.
posted by orange swan at 5:52 PM on September 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
Also, Pierre Poilievre accidentally said the n-word in the House of Commons when he extended his condolences to the family of Hardeep Singh Nijjar. There's been concern that Polievre might be able to become Canada's PM in the next election, but while I certainly won't dismiss such a possibility entirely, my prediction is that he's going to prove to be a wash out, just as Rona Ambrose, Andrew Scheer, Erin O'Toole, and Candice Bergen all did. He's such an incompetent clown that he's constantly self-sabotaging.
posted by orange swan at 5:52 PM on September 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
orce pollivere to take the side of a fascist third party, Modi
Conservative leader Pierre Poilievre has refused to get the clearance necessary to be read in on security matters and doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
It's always politics at some level, but it seems like Pierre is making the right noises for now, calling for the Indian government to act with full transparency. Pierre refused to accept the offered security clearance to be read in on the investigation into foreign interference back when that first blew up this spring, but he & Singh were both briefed by the PMO ahead of this announcement; not sure exactly what they saw/were told.
posted by nubs at 6:00 PM on September 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Conservative leader Pierre Poilievre has refused to get the clearance necessary to be read in on security matters and doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
It's always politics at some level, but it seems like Pierre is making the right noises for now, calling for the Indian government to act with full transparency. Pierre refused to accept the offered security clearance to be read in on the investigation into foreign interference back when that first blew up this spring, but he & Singh were both briefed by the PMO ahead of this announcement; not sure exactly what they saw/were told.
posted by nubs at 6:00 PM on September 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
No, the Canadians booted India's chief spook.
What does this mean?
posted by waving at 6:23 PM on September 18, 2023
What does this mean?
posted by waving at 6:23 PM on September 18, 2023
No, the Canadians booted India's chief spook.
What does this mean?
As stated in the OP, the Canadian government expelled the head of India's intelligence agency from the country.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:35 PM on September 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
What does this mean?
As stated in the OP, the Canadian government expelled the head of India's intelligence agency from the country.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:35 PM on September 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Some proportion of the staff in every embassy has elements of their portfolio that are not strictly diplomatic. There's a constant international game of cat and mouse where you try to figure out which diplomats in your country are actually spies or spymasters while also ensuring that your spies and spymasters are not discovered. Everyone is doing this.
If you've figured out that the ambassador's second assistant undersecretary of whatever is actually running a huge spy network in your country, you don't just kick them out right away, because they'll only be replaced by someone you don't know yet. Instead you keep an eye on them and wait. If a time comes that you want to set back their intelligence network and also deliver a public rebuke, you expel one or more of the spies you know about.
Of course, there's a lot more going on in any particular case, so that doesn't actually tell us anything very deep about what's happening here, but that's the general background.
posted by echo target at 6:38 PM on September 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
If you've figured out that the ambassador's second assistant undersecretary of whatever is actually running a huge spy network in your country, you don't just kick them out right away, because they'll only be replaced by someone you don't know yet. Instead you keep an eye on them and wait. If a time comes that you want to set back their intelligence network and also deliver a public rebuke, you expel one or more of the spies you know about.
Of course, there's a lot more going on in any particular case, so that doesn't actually tell us anything very deep about what's happening here, but that's the general background.
posted by echo target at 6:38 PM on September 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
I suspect politics on Trudeau's part,
he is a politician.
get in front of the issue and force pollivere to take the side of a fascist third party, Modi. Pretty acute actually.
this is pretty much my immediate takeaway. I do try not to invest too much of my conscious life in national politics, but every now and then something happens that hogs all the headlines, can't be ignored. To his (and his team's) credit, I view this as Trudeau playing a definite power move.
As late as last week, the few headlines I was noticing were tending to paint him as something of a lightweight and a lame duck, people getting tired of his pretty boy looks (a recent separation from his wife), and overall just too long in power, reaching that point where he can't really blame any of the nation's big problems on his opponents anymore ...
And then this happens. I'm not suggesting any part of it's been manufactured. But it is politics. It is being played ...
posted by philip-random at 6:46 PM on September 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
What's astonishing to me is.... But they did so without getting a clandestine OK or maybe even telling the Canadians ahead of time.
Does this happen anywhere? Even if the gov't hosting the target was okay with the target being dead, the violation of their sovereignty and the pre-emption of their own legal system, seems an insurmountable barrier to getting permission. And if you ask/inform and the country says "hell no," you've pretty much blocked your own assassination scheme because if the target is suddenly dead, it's pretty obvious what happened, and you've destroyed diplomatic relations.
And this is assuming the press doesn't get hold of the story and reveal that the gov't was complicit in another country's extrajudicial killing on their own soil. There's just zero upside to asking or granting permission.
posted by fatbird at 6:57 PM on September 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Does this happen anywhere? Even if the gov't hosting the target was okay with the target being dead, the violation of their sovereignty and the pre-emption of their own legal system, seems an insurmountable barrier to getting permission. And if you ask/inform and the country says "hell no," you've pretty much blocked your own assassination scheme because if the target is suddenly dead, it's pretty obvious what happened, and you've destroyed diplomatic relations.
And this is assuming the press doesn't get hold of the story and reveal that the gov't was complicit in another country's extrajudicial killing on their own soil. There's just zero upside to asking or granting permission.
posted by fatbird at 6:57 PM on September 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Thinking Trudeau a lightweight has lost them three elections now. Poilievre really is a lightweight, dog-ate-my-homework kind of guy and I wouldn't put it past the Liberals to play dirty pool to triangulate him on what they can. But I don't think that's a major consideration here.
I actually kind of doubt this is being done (entirely) for domestic political advantage, but we do have the ongoing context of an inquiry into foreign powers meddling in Canadian politics. China is the favourite punching bag of the Conservatives, but India has long been trying to fuck with Canada too, and Modi seems to really dislike Trudeau on a personal level. This may simply be a Canadian Cabinet finally fed up with being nice with India.
posted by bonehead at 7:20 PM on September 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
I actually kind of doubt this is being done (entirely) for domestic political advantage, but we do have the ongoing context of an inquiry into foreign powers meddling in Canadian politics. China is the favourite punching bag of the Conservatives, but India has long been trying to fuck with Canada too, and Modi seems to really dislike Trudeau on a personal level. This may simply be a Canadian Cabinet finally fed up with being nice with India.
posted by bonehead at 7:20 PM on September 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
As stated in the OP, the Canadian government expelled the head of India's intelligence agency from the country.
The head of India’s intelligence agency in Canada, i.e., the embassy’s station chief, “posted to Ottawa as minister (eco, coordination, community affairs) in the Indian high commission.” Every embassy of every country has an equivalent, and every host country knows exactly who it is, whether officially or otherwise.
posted by Etrigan at 7:58 PM on September 18, 2023
The head of India’s intelligence agency in Canada, i.e., the embassy’s station chief, “posted to Ottawa as minister (eco, coordination, community affairs) in the Indian high commission.” Every embassy of every country has an equivalent, and every host country knows exactly who it is, whether officially or otherwise.
posted by Etrigan at 7:58 PM on September 18, 2023
Does this happen anywhere?
Not really. The US does do extrajudicial killings (e.g. drone strikes, osama bin laden), but I do not think the host country is warned beforehand.
posted by ryanrs at 8:10 PM on September 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Not really. The US does do extrajudicial killings (e.g. drone strikes, osama bin laden), but I do not think the host country is warned beforehand.
posted by ryanrs at 8:10 PM on September 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Some may believe otherwise with regard to Trudeau, but one doesn't become the PM for three elections by being a lightweight. There are exceptions, I suppose but Trudeau isn't one of them. Poilievre has a very different style of politics (which I worry about, to be honest) than Trudeau but he also isn't a lightweight and it's a foolish person who underestimates him. Both of them are saying the right things in this situation and there is no doubt in my mind that there's some jockeying for position. There is also no doubt in my mind that they actually mean what they're saying; you can't assassinate a Canadian citizen on Canadian land and get caught doing it without repercussions.
posted by ashbury at 8:24 PM on September 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by ashbury at 8:24 PM on September 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
Ugh.
I have lived most of my life in British Columbia, Vancouver more than any other place, and have seen political killings in the Indian community before. A former NDP premiere, Ujjal Dosanjh, was attacked for his moderate Sikh views years back in 1985 by a man wielding a metal pipe. He was battered and bloodied but he survived. This was years before he became premier.
But, I have not seen anything like this before; an assassination of a prominent Sikh leader directly linked to India's head of state.
That is all I have. I don't think I am qualified to comment any further other than to say how horrible this is.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 8:37 PM on September 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
I have lived most of my life in British Columbia, Vancouver more than any other place, and have seen political killings in the Indian community before. A former NDP premiere, Ujjal Dosanjh, was attacked for his moderate Sikh views years back in 1985 by a man wielding a metal pipe. He was battered and bloodied but he survived. This was years before he became premier.
But, I have not seen anything like this before; an assassination of a prominent Sikh leader directly linked to India's head of state.
That is all I have. I don't think I am qualified to comment any further other than to say how horrible this is.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 8:37 PM on September 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
...he's going to prove to be a wash out, just as Rona Ambrose, Andrew Scheer, Erin O'Toole, and Candice Bergen all did.
According to CPC party constitution, interim leaders are not allowed to run for leadership election. Ambrose was a moderate conservative and might have made a reasonable showing as a candidate, but her political career was winding down by this point. Also, the only CPC leader in the 21st century who was not completely repellent in my opinion.
posted by ovvl at 9:08 PM on September 18, 2023
According to CPC party constitution, interim leaders are not allowed to run for leadership election. Ambrose was a moderate conservative and might have made a reasonable showing as a candidate, but her political career was winding down by this point. Also, the only CPC leader in the 21st century who was not completely repellent in my opinion.
posted by ovvl at 9:08 PM on September 18, 2023
This may explain some of the tension between Modi & Trudeau at the G20 summit last week.
Wasn't that partly due to the parade float recreating the assassination of Indira Gandhi (by her Sikh bodyguards) with the word "REVENGE" in big letters at a Sikh parade in Ontario on June 4th, which caused a huge stir in India? You can see the float on Twitter here. Nijjar was killed in British Columbia 2 weeks later on June 18.
Tangentially, I wonder if Biden's fist-bump with Mohammed bin Salman during his visit to Saudi Arabia last year had anything to do with emboldening Modi in his own extrajudicial murder of a political opponent in another country. MBS at least waited until Jamal Khashoggi was in Turkey before cutting him into pieces.
This picture of bin Salman, Modi and Biden shaking hands at the G20 summit in New Delhi nine days ago certainly takes on new meaning in light of Trudeau's announcement, and probably was another bit that didn't make Trudeau very happy at the time.
posted by mediareport at 9:09 PM on September 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
Wasn't that partly due to the parade float recreating the assassination of Indira Gandhi (by her Sikh bodyguards) with the word "REVENGE" in big letters at a Sikh parade in Ontario on June 4th, which caused a huge stir in India? You can see the float on Twitter here. Nijjar was killed in British Columbia 2 weeks later on June 18.
Tangentially, I wonder if Biden's fist-bump with Mohammed bin Salman during his visit to Saudi Arabia last year had anything to do with emboldening Modi in his own extrajudicial murder of a political opponent in another country. MBS at least waited until Jamal Khashoggi was in Turkey before cutting him into pieces.
This picture of bin Salman, Modi and Biden shaking hands at the G20 summit in New Delhi nine days ago certainly takes on new meaning in light of Trudeau's announcement, and probably was another bit that didn't make Trudeau very happy at the time.
posted by mediareport at 9:09 PM on September 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
I would imagine that the only(?) time it makes sense for one country would let another country know that they were planning an extrajudicial action against someone within the 2nd country's borders would be if the target were someone both nations wanted captured/killed.
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:31 PM on September 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:31 PM on September 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Meant to link this June story at Al Jazeera about the tensions after the Sikh parade. I'll leave aside thoughts about Indian pols calling out another country for making space for violent extremists, but thought the backstory might be useful.
posted by mediareport at 10:29 PM on September 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by mediareport at 10:29 PM on September 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think a lot of dead leftists in murdered countries they were not native to might disagree with some of the takes in this thread. Operation condor, anti-basque separatist operations, Chileans in Washington DC… The amount of outrage correlates pretty strongly with whether the establishment of the “other” country has decided whether the assassinating country is “good” or “bad” (and oddly enough goodness and badness correlates pretty strongly with alignment to US business and capital interests)
posted by youthenrage at 3:19 AM on September 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by youthenrage at 3:19 AM on September 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
*who were murdered in countries
posted by youthenrage at 4:33 AM on September 19, 2023
posted by youthenrage at 4:33 AM on September 19, 2023
It's always politics at some level, but it seems like Pierre is making the right noises for now, calling for the Indian government to act with full transparency.
Lucky for him, then, that his newly minted foreign policy guru had already expressed last week that Trudeau and the "woke establishment" would put out a smear designed to "vilify" Modi and India. Now the CPC is happily on both sides of the issue: it's a serious violation of Canadian sovereignty AND a false flag.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 6:26 AM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Lucky for him, then, that his newly minted foreign policy guru had already expressed last week that Trudeau and the "woke establishment" would put out a smear designed to "vilify" Modi and India. Now the CPC is happily on both sides of the issue: it's a serious violation of Canadian sovereignty AND a false flag.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 6:26 AM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Apparently the comment I made about Saskatchewan losing their shit about lentils was deleted*? Should probably clarify Saskatchewan grows a lot of pulses and exports a lot of them to India, and their conservative/Conservative politicians were already making concerned noises about Trudeau's fractious relationship with Modi before this.
*It was late, maybe I dreamed it or wrote it and close the window before hitting post or maybe I've been silenced all my life
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 6:34 AM on September 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
*It was late, maybe I dreamed it or wrote it and close the window before hitting post or maybe I've been silenced all my life
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 6:34 AM on September 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
NYTimes: Canada’s Startling Claim Punctuates Tension With India Over Separatists. Contains India's response (bit of a mixed message):
posted by Nelson at 7:01 AM on September 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
India forcefully dismissed the allegation. In a statement, its Foreign Ministry rejected “any attempts to connect the government of India” to Mr. Nijjar’s death and accused Canada of sheltering “extremists and terrorists” who “continue to threaten India’s sovereignty and territorial integrity.”The article has some useful history on Sikh separatism and the politics of the Sikh community in India. Another NYT article from a few hours before also talks about another Sikh being murdered in Canada, Ripudaman Singh Malik. He had been investigated and acquitted in a 1985 airplane bombing.
posted by Nelson at 7:01 AM on September 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
The 1985 bombing was Air India 182 plane that was brought down by a bomb near Scotland, for context. One of the worst terrorist events the world had seen until 9/11.
The perpetrators were Sikh separatists, deeply involved in Khalistan. They were not prosecuted quickly or well by the Canadian establishment, and that's always been a major source of friction with India. The likely planner and instigator of the Air India disaster never saw a day in jail due to RCMP bungling. Many of those involved have been murdered or died violently subsequently.
posted by bonehead at 7:27 AM on September 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
The perpetrators were Sikh separatists, deeply involved in Khalistan. They were not prosecuted quickly or well by the Canadian establishment, and that's always been a major source of friction with India. The likely planner and instigator of the Air India disaster never saw a day in jail due to RCMP bungling. Many of those involved have been murdered or died violently subsequently.
posted by bonehead at 7:27 AM on September 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
Some may believe otherwise with regard to Trudeau, but one doesn't become the PM for three elections by being a lightweight.
The RWNJs on Twitter talk about Trudeau as though he were too stupid and inept to tie his shoes (i.e., "Trudope"), and simultaneously a criminal mastermind who is singlehandedly orchestrating global events far beyond the control of any one head of state. The truth is that Trudeau, while not a genius, is at least as intelligent as any of the parade of leaders the Conservatives have managed to come up with of late years, and certainly far ahead of Poilievre. To be clear, I'm not a Trudeau supporter. I consider him a mediocre leader and would like to see him replaced with someone more progressive. However, he has his good qualities and he was the best option among the available national party leaders when he first got elected, and he still is. (I like Jagmeet Singh, but I've seen some really disappointing behaviour from him too and am not sure he'd be an improvement either, although I'd like to see him as Opposition Leader while the Cons stew in their own rancid juices on the back benches.)
Trudeau is doing the right thing here by holding the Indian government to account for its horrifying murder of a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil, but I can't help savouring the way he hung the Conservative leadership out to dry in the process. Poilievre's playing checkers to Trudeau's modest chess. Stephen Harper also was made to look like a clueless toady, not that he needs any help in that department. Shut up and go away, Stephen.
posted by orange swan at 7:45 AM on September 19, 2023 [7 favorites]
The RWNJs on Twitter talk about Trudeau as though he were too stupid and inept to tie his shoes (i.e., "Trudope"), and simultaneously a criminal mastermind who is singlehandedly orchestrating global events far beyond the control of any one head of state. The truth is that Trudeau, while not a genius, is at least as intelligent as any of the parade of leaders the Conservatives have managed to come up with of late years, and certainly far ahead of Poilievre. To be clear, I'm not a Trudeau supporter. I consider him a mediocre leader and would like to see him replaced with someone more progressive. However, he has his good qualities and he was the best option among the available national party leaders when he first got elected, and he still is. (I like Jagmeet Singh, but I've seen some really disappointing behaviour from him too and am not sure he'd be an improvement either, although I'd like to see him as Opposition Leader while the Cons stew in their own rancid juices on the back benches.)
Trudeau is doing the right thing here by holding the Indian government to account for its horrifying murder of a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil, but I can't help savouring the way he hung the Conservative leadership out to dry in the process. Poilievre's playing checkers to Trudeau's modest chess. Stephen Harper also was made to look like a clueless toady, not that he needs any help in that department. Shut up and go away, Stephen.
posted by orange swan at 7:45 AM on September 19, 2023 [7 favorites]
Another disturbing aspect of this issue is that "Facebook is blocking Canadians’ posts about the assassination of a BC Sikh leader. Their posts were targeted by India’s government. Canadian Sikh FB users were told their posts were taken down because they violate Indian law."
posted by orange swan at 8:29 AM on September 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 8:29 AM on September 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
The RWNJs on Twitter talk about Trudeau as though he were too stupid and inept to tie his shoes (i.e., "Trudope"), and simultaneously a criminal mastermind who is singlehandedly orchestrating global events far beyond the control of any one head of state.
RIGHT????
I love doing this to those people. "So wait: which is he, Gordon*? A bumbling fool or a devious mastermind? Because you can't have it both ways, you absolute turnip."
*There are a lot of Gords in Canada
posted by Kitteh at 8:45 AM on September 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
RIGHT????
I love doing this to those people. "So wait: which is he, Gordon*? A bumbling fool or a devious mastermind? Because you can't have it both ways, you absolute turnip."
*There are a lot of Gords in Canada
posted by Kitteh at 8:45 AM on September 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
And gourds! This is the best time of year for gourds.
posted by bonehead at 8:58 AM on September 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 8:58 AM on September 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
talk about Trudeau as though he were too stupid and inept to tie his shoes (i.e., "Trudope"), and simultaneously a criminal mastermind who is singlehandedly orchestrating global events far beyond the control of any one head of state.
This is classic fascist rhetoric: our enemies are a weak, cowardly minority yet they are so powerful they control the world. Jews, homoesexuals, trans folks, feminists, people who live in cities, etc. Once you see this pattern you see it everywhere in right-wing speech.
posted by riotnrrd at 1:27 PM on September 19, 2023 [15 favorites]
This is classic fascist rhetoric: our enemies are a weak, cowardly minority yet they are so powerful they control the world. Jews, homoesexuals, trans folks, feminists, people who live in cities, etc. Once you see this pattern you see it everywhere in right-wing speech.
posted by riotnrrd at 1:27 PM on September 19, 2023 [15 favorites]
Apparently the comment I made about Saskatchewan losing their shit about lentils was deleted*?
For the record, I saw this comment and knew it was about agriculture. Saskatchewan lentils are a big deal. And remember the Dijon mustard shortage last year? Also Saskatchewan, they're a huge mustard seed exporter.
There is a big Saskatchewan/India food trade that most people don't know about. Kinda like how everyone is learning how important Ukraine is for wheat.
posted by ryanrs at 9:37 PM on September 19, 2023
For the record, I saw this comment and knew it was about agriculture. Saskatchewan lentils are a big deal. And remember the Dijon mustard shortage last year? Also Saskatchewan, they're a huge mustard seed exporter.
There is a big Saskatchewan/India food trade that most people don't know about. Kinda like how everyone is learning how important Ukraine is for wheat.
posted by ryanrs at 9:37 PM on September 19, 2023
Conservative leader Pierre Poilievre has refused to get the clearance necessary
Why did he refuse to get clearance?
posted by trig at 4:54 AM on September 20, 2023
Why did he refuse to get clearance?
posted by trig at 4:54 AM on September 20, 2023
Why did he refuse to get clearance?
It goes back to David Johnston's report on foreign interference. Both Poilievre and the BQ leader Blanchet have refused to get the necessary clearance because it would require them to swear not to reveal any of the information publicly.
posted by papercrane at 6:09 AM on September 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
It goes back to David Johnston's report on foreign interference. Both Poilievre and the BQ leader Blanchet have refused to get the necessary clearance because it would require them to swear not to reveal any of the information publicly.
posted by papercrane at 6:09 AM on September 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
Why did he refuse to get clearance?
It would interfere with him being able to say any old shit.
posted by mazola at 6:55 AM on September 20, 2023 [6 favorites]
It would interfere with him being able to say any old shit.
posted by mazola at 6:55 AM on September 20, 2023 [6 favorites]
Apparently the comment I made about Saskatchewan losing their shit about lentils was deleted*? Should probably clarify Saskatchewan grows a lot of pulses and exports a lot of them to India, and their conservative/Conservative politicians were already making concerned noises about Trudeau's fractious relationship with Modi before this.
That's interesting and useful; thanks, Alvy Ampersand. If there was more to it, or a link, please repost.
Also, I'll send a note to the mods and encourage others to use the "contact" link at the bottom of the page to do so too; they're supposed to note in-thread when something has been deleted, but it seems to not happen sometimes.
posted by mediareport at 8:13 AM on September 20, 2023
That's interesting and useful; thanks, Alvy Ampersand. If there was more to it, or a link, please repost.
Also, I'll send a note to the mods and encourage others to use the "contact" link at the bottom of the page to do so too; they're supposed to note in-thread when something has been deleted, but it seems to not happen sometimes.
posted by mediareport at 8:13 AM on September 20, 2023
CBC is reporting that the Canadian government are in possession of intercepted communications involving Indian officials:
The Canadian government has amassed both human and signals intelligence in a months-long investigation of a Sikh activist's death that has inflamed relations with India, sources tell CBC News.posted by Nerd of the North at 10:09 PM on September 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
That intelligence includes communications involving Indian officials themselves, including Indian diplomats present in Canada, say Canadian government sources.
And it looks like part of those intercepts likely came from the nice folks at Fort Meade, which makes one wonder how much the US knows.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:41 PM on September 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:41 PM on September 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
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