France offers subsidies for clothing repairs
October 4, 2023 11:53 AM Subscribe
Broken Zipper? France Will Pay to Get It Fixed Starting this month, anyone in France who has shoes resoled or clothing repaired will receive a subsidy. The repair bonus of between six and 25 euros is intended to encourage consumers to visit cobblers and tailors instead of throwing away old shoes and clothes. Some 154 million euros are available for the program until 2028, according to Klaus Sieg writing in Reasons to be Cheerful. ...In this way, the French government is responding to an ecological problem that is only gradually coming to the public’s attention. Ever shorter life cycles for clothing are consuming resources and growing mountains of waste. Hardly any other flow of goods has grown so dramatically in recent years, and with so little regulation, as the ballooning textile industry.
... In downtown Bordeaux, the big fashion brands of the world dominate the district around Rue Sainte-Catherine, nearly upstaging the St. Andre Cathedral and the famous Grand Theatre de Bordeaux. Their LED signs blaze from behind magnificent neoclassical facades: H&M, Old Navy, G-Star RAW — a modern cultural form embedded within the old.
Mireille Paumier’s studio for repairs is located on a far less ostentatious side street. Top Retouches is written on a green sign at the entrance. A steep staircase leads up to the first floor, where the 56-year-old sits at her sewing machine under a bright neon lamp and sews a zipper into a pair of trousers. A customer waits at a small counter, leafing through a magazine. Mireille Paumier repairs many things. She replaces buttons and jacket linings, renews broken seams, changes waistbands and skirt waists, plugs holes or patches them with a piece of fabric. “People often stop wearing their clothes because some little thing is wrong or broken.” The seamstress, who works by appointment, looks up only briefly through her large glasses. “Because of my work, customers use their clothes longer.”
... In downtown Bordeaux, the big fashion brands of the world dominate the district around Rue Sainte-Catherine, nearly upstaging the St. Andre Cathedral and the famous Grand Theatre de Bordeaux. Their LED signs blaze from behind magnificent neoclassical facades: H&M, Old Navy, G-Star RAW — a modern cultural form embedded within the old.
Mireille Paumier’s studio for repairs is located on a far less ostentatious side street. Top Retouches is written on a green sign at the entrance. A steep staircase leads up to the first floor, where the 56-year-old sits at her sewing machine under a bright neon lamp and sews a zipper into a pair of trousers. A customer waits at a small counter, leafing through a magazine. Mireille Paumier repairs many things. She replaces buttons and jacket linings, renews broken seams, changes waistbands and skirt waists, plugs holes or patches them with a piece of fabric. “People often stop wearing their clothes because some little thing is wrong or broken.” The seamstress, who works by appointment, looks up only briefly through her large glasses. “Because of my work, customers use their clothes longer.”
I wish decent tailors and cobblers were a common thing but the fact that clothing is so disposable has mostly eliminated the existence of them in most places.
posted by Ferreous at 12:08 PM on October 4, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by Ferreous at 12:08 PM on October 4, 2023 [14 favorites]
Too true. I am super excited about this new development in France. More locally, I have a small leather bag/backpack with a broken zipper and I was happy to discover that there is a shoe, zipper, etc. repair place downtown. So I will be taking the bag, a pair of shoes, and a pair of slippers for repair this week. Cannot wait for them to be useable again. When you can buy new things on sale at H&M for $7 on some days, it is not surprising that tailors and cobblers have gone out of business. Perhaps those honourable vocations will soon get a new lease on life.
posted by Bella Donna at 12:12 PM on October 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 12:12 PM on October 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
No link?
I wonder how this works, bureaucracy-wise? Who applies for the subsidy, the tailor or the customer? What's to prevent someone from setting up an assembly line of damaging and perfunctorily patching discarded clothes?
posted by alexei at 12:21 PM on October 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
I wonder how this works, bureaucracy-wise? Who applies for the subsidy, the tailor or the customer? What's to prevent someone from setting up an assembly line of damaging and perfunctorily patching discarded clothes?
posted by alexei at 12:21 PM on October 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Sounds like something that will benefit richer consumers who can afford clothes that are worth repairing in the first place. I’m not sure how much tailoring you can do on a thin, weak cotton fast fashion items.
posted by rh at 12:23 PM on October 4, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by rh at 12:23 PM on October 4, 2023 [13 favorites]
Sounds like something that will benefit richer consumers who can afford clothes that are worth repairing in the first place. I’m not sure how much tailoring you can do on a thin, weak cotton fast fashion items.
This might have changed or I could just be wrong, but I believe europeans in general have much smaller wardrobes than Americans and quality clothing is readily available on the second-hand market. There's the old saying that cheap boots are more expensive than good boots because one falls apart after a season while the other lasts years before needing a somewhat inexpensive repair.
Anything that discourages the absurd amounts of waste and pollution from fast fashion is a universal good in my opinion.
posted by mikesch at 12:27 PM on October 4, 2023 [24 favorites]
This might have changed or I could just be wrong, but I believe europeans in general have much smaller wardrobes than Americans and quality clothing is readily available on the second-hand market. There's the old saying that cheap boots are more expensive than good boots because one falls apart after a season while the other lasts years before needing a somewhat inexpensive repair.
Anything that discourages the absurd amounts of waste and pollution from fast fashion is a universal good in my opinion.
posted by mikesch at 12:27 PM on October 4, 2023 [24 favorites]
My neoliberal instinct is that this is clunky: If the problem is people buying too many new clothes, tax new clothes. If the problem is people throwing away too much junk, put higher fees on trash. But 154 million euros over 5 years is less than 50 cents per person per year. It's also only about 0.1 percent of the total spending on clothing, which is not enough to make a real financial difference. I think that's a good thing, because it won't distort the market too much. But it might get people thinking about the option of repairing clothes, which is a good thing. In fact, it may be more effective than spending the same amount on ads encouraging reuse.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 12:29 PM on October 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 12:29 PM on October 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
How do you even make an FPP without a link? I thought the engine would reject it?
Anyway, I'm quite interested in this except who is buying shoes that a cobbler can repair these days? I buy work boots that could be worked on, but most people today I see, at least in the US, are wearing the kind of shoes that are glued together with layers of rubber in the soles and I don't know if you can repair sneakers or Vans or whatever.
posted by hippybear at 12:35 PM on October 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
Anyway, I'm quite interested in this except who is buying shoes that a cobbler can repair these days? I buy work boots that could be worked on, but most people today I see, at least in the US, are wearing the kind of shoes that are glued together with layers of rubber in the soles and I don't know if you can repair sneakers or Vans or whatever.
posted by hippybear at 12:35 PM on October 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
As always, it's the Sam Vimes’s ‘Boots’ Theory of Socio-economic Unfairness, yo.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:41 PM on October 4, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by wenestvedt at 12:41 PM on October 4, 2023 [17 favorites]
Seems like a good idea, although will it avoid a cobra effect?
posted by grokus at 12:45 PM on October 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by grokus at 12:45 PM on October 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm glad to see a nice headline coming about France for a change.
Too much lately about rats and bedbugs.
Less trash is a good thing. Reviving skilled labor is a good thing. Making better things and fixing them when they break is a good thing. Anything that helps achieve those ends is a positive in my book.
posted by tempestuoso at 12:49 PM on October 4, 2023 [16 favorites]
Too much lately about rats and bedbugs.
Less trash is a good thing. Reviving skilled labor is a good thing. Making better things and fixing them when they break is a good thing. Anything that helps achieve those ends is a positive in my book.
posted by tempestuoso at 12:49 PM on October 4, 2023 [16 favorites]
bootstraps!
posted by clavdivs at 1:06 PM on October 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 1:06 PM on October 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
You can actually do quite a lot with many cheap shoes to extend their life. Not to the degree that you can with fancy shoes, but my former shoe guy and I used to talk about this. For cheap shoes, you can reglue soles that are peeling away, add a sole cover to extend the life of worn non-replaceable soles, place various patches inside the shoes where the lining is worn, attach new heel covers, etc. A talented cobbler can do a good deal with cheap shoes - the results aren't as nice or durable as on fancy shoes, but if you have comfortable, inexpensive shoes with peeling parts or a worn sole, it may be worthwhile to consult a cobbler. They do in fact work on cheap shoes - they won't kick you out just because you didn't bring a $500 benchmade boot.
My former shoe guy passed away only in his sixties just this year - I'm sad every time I look at the shoes he worked on for me and I've hardly had the heart to wear anything but Vans since he at least attached sole covers on the vast majority of my other shoes. He was a really nice guy. We used to talk shoes for a while every time I went in and I can still hear his voice. Treasure the nice people in your life, you will miss them when they are gone.
posted by Frowner at 1:21 PM on October 4, 2023 [40 favorites]
My former shoe guy passed away only in his sixties just this year - I'm sad every time I look at the shoes he worked on for me and I've hardly had the heart to wear anything but Vans since he at least attached sole covers on the vast majority of my other shoes. He was a really nice guy. We used to talk shoes for a while every time I went in and I can still hear his voice. Treasure the nice people in your life, you will miss them when they are gone.
posted by Frowner at 1:21 PM on October 4, 2023 [40 favorites]
For a while, there were two "boot and tarp" repair shops in town, about two blocks apart. Repair Shop 1 was on a side street, Repair Shop 2 was on the main drag.
Repair Shop 1 rented the billboard on the same street as Repair Shop 2 and put a big arrow on it "BOOT AND TARP REPAIR 2 BLOCKS" -- this was within eyeshot of Repair Shop 2, like stare at it from their front door. I don't know if it actually diverted traffic from one to the other, but I can only imagine the bad blood between these two guys in the same industry.
My wife loves her cowboy boots, though, and when the off-the-shelf soles were wearing away she went down to the boot shop, got them resoled, cleaned, and fixed, for like $40. I was expecting to cost at least double, if not triple, that, based on how expensive her nice boots are in the first place. They lasted at least as long as the original soles, they haven't worn out yet but were getting there.
Now both places are gone, and she resorted to just buying new boots.
I'm also disappointed by these other losses too, but also amazed that they lasted so long: we had a razor service/repair shop and a actual television repair shop up until not too long ago. I think Covid may not have ended them but were enough of an excuse to finally toss in the towel.
posted by AzraelBrown at 1:25 PM on October 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
Repair Shop 1 rented the billboard on the same street as Repair Shop 2 and put a big arrow on it "BOOT AND TARP REPAIR 2 BLOCKS" -- this was within eyeshot of Repair Shop 2, like stare at it from their front door. I don't know if it actually diverted traffic from one to the other, but I can only imagine the bad blood between these two guys in the same industry.
My wife loves her cowboy boots, though, and when the off-the-shelf soles were wearing away she went down to the boot shop, got them resoled, cleaned, and fixed, for like $40. I was expecting to cost at least double, if not triple, that, based on how expensive her nice boots are in the first place. They lasted at least as long as the original soles, they haven't worn out yet but were getting there.
Now both places are gone, and she resorted to just buying new boots.
I'm also disappointed by these other losses too, but also amazed that they lasted so long: we had a razor service/repair shop and a actual television repair shop up until not too long ago. I think Covid may not have ended them but were enough of an excuse to finally toss in the towel.
posted by AzraelBrown at 1:25 PM on October 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
who is buying shoes that a cobbler can repair these days
I got leather boots off Poshmark and then had a cobbler re-sole them with sturdier soles. It's not that hard and I'm excited to see this happening. I wish it would come to the US - repairs are so expensive here now that fewer people are repairing things.
posted by corb at 1:31 PM on October 4, 2023 [10 favorites]
I got leather boots off Poshmark and then had a cobbler re-sole them with sturdier soles. It's not that hard and I'm excited to see this happening. I wish it would come to the US - repairs are so expensive here now that fewer people are repairing things.
posted by corb at 1:31 PM on October 4, 2023 [10 favorites]
There's a pretty big culture around repairing/mending outdoor clothes so you can still use them. I know that for my Patagonia stuff I can take it back to the store to get a zipper replaced, and they even have videos on their website showing how to make repairs on your own, and MEC (like a Canadian version of REI) has a section of buckles and cords so that you can repair your stuff too. For a lot of my outdoor gear I've taken to first repairing them with some tenacious tape and then on top of that applying some retoreflective tape. My wife complains about the random silver patches on my dark blue winter coat but there's a high chance I'll be wearing it at night so I think that little bit of extra visibility has to be a good thing. Maybe its because so much of it is made from plastic but I find that outdoor clothes can last a really long time.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:39 PM on October 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:39 PM on October 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
Too much lately about rats and bedbugs.
Subsidies for rat and bedbug repair are being considered.
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:51 PM on October 4, 2023 [8 favorites]
Subsidies for rat and bedbug repair are being considered.
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:51 PM on October 4, 2023 [8 favorites]
I mean, I'll be honest -- if I could send the pairs of Danners I have that are old and sitting in my closet back to the shop for repairs and get a subsidy on them, I would.
I worked at a job that would give me money every year for new work boots. This was not enough for a pair of Danners, they were planning on me spending less money on crappier shoes, but these boots work so well for me and my feet that I would buy them every couple of years and eat the difference. So I have several pairs of these boots that are worn but not broken.
I have had two major roadblocks for me getting these boots repaired. The first is, I don't know how much the repairs will cost. You have to send the boots in and wait for them to tell you what all they're going to do to repair them and then you know the cost. That's always going to be cheaper than new boots, but the money from my job wasn't for boot repairs, it was for new boots.
The second roadblock is the turnaround. I'd have to box the boots up and ship them to Portland for these repairs, and they don't tell you how long this will take. If I'm needing new boots I'm needing them now, and yes I have several pairs of these boots. But when I started this, I had no backup so shipping off my footwear for in indeterminate amount of time was unimaginable.
I guess when i'm rolling with money again I should get all these boots repaired and I likely won't have to spend much on boots for many many years. But just because you have footwear that can be repaired doesn't mean getting it repaired is something easy or reasonable.
posted by hippybear at 1:52 PM on October 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
I worked at a job that would give me money every year for new work boots. This was not enough for a pair of Danners, they were planning on me spending less money on crappier shoes, but these boots work so well for me and my feet that I would buy them every couple of years and eat the difference. So I have several pairs of these boots that are worn but not broken.
I have had two major roadblocks for me getting these boots repaired. The first is, I don't know how much the repairs will cost. You have to send the boots in and wait for them to tell you what all they're going to do to repair them and then you know the cost. That's always going to be cheaper than new boots, but the money from my job wasn't for boot repairs, it was for new boots.
The second roadblock is the turnaround. I'd have to box the boots up and ship them to Portland for these repairs, and they don't tell you how long this will take. If I'm needing new boots I'm needing them now, and yes I have several pairs of these boots. But when I started this, I had no backup so shipping off my footwear for in indeterminate amount of time was unimaginable.
I guess when i'm rolling with money again I should get all these boots repaired and I likely won't have to spend much on boots for many many years. But just because you have footwear that can be repaired doesn't mean getting it repaired is something easy or reasonable.
posted by hippybear at 1:52 PM on October 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
I visit my cobbler almost every spring to get my winter boots re-heeled plus scratches repaired. Less so with mild winters - I managed the last one in my trainers 90% of the time - but then he gets business from me on things like breaking in the heels on new trainers or stretching them out. He's saved boots I thought were absolute goners before. The guy's over 80 and I really hope someone decent will eventually take over the lease...
posted by I claim sanctuary at 1:55 PM on October 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by I claim sanctuary at 1:55 PM on October 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
Chaco Sandals has a repair service. I am on my second set of straps and 4th sole. A new strap and sole is the same price as buying a whole new set of Chacos made overseas, but the repairs are done is Wisconsin. I would love a subsidy that keeps that money here
My dad had boot boots and dress shoes that went through multiple soles and heels in his lifetime
posted by CostcoCultist at 2:55 PM on October 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
My dad had boot boots and dress shoes that went through multiple soles and heels in his lifetime
posted by CostcoCultist at 2:55 PM on October 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
We had an old cobbler in town who said he could replace soles on Merrills and such . Unfortunately he got sick and closed up shop before I could have him do a pair and see how well that worked. Now, we have no cobbler within 25 miles. Next pair of Merrills I wear out, I'm going to call and see if they can fix them.
posted by beagle at 2:57 PM on October 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by beagle at 2:57 PM on October 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
We do also have two custom bookmakers here in town. Which is a bit of a wealth of riches, truly. And having a pair of their boots would be amazing. I think the last time I checked they would run me about $400. But at least if I had that, I'd have local service for them, unlike my Danners.
posted by hippybear at 3:14 PM on October 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 3:14 PM on October 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
who is buying shoes that a cobbler can repair these days
I am. It's one of the factors I take into consideration when buying shoes in the first place.
I also support companies like VivoBarefoot, which allow you to ship back the shoes when you've worn through the soles and have them replaced with new soles for a nominal fee (only works in some countries, but still...).
posted by dobbs at 3:22 PM on October 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
I am. It's one of the factors I take into consideration when buying shoes in the first place.
I also support companies like VivoBarefoot, which allow you to ship back the shoes when you've worn through the soles and have them replaced with new soles for a nominal fee (only works in some countries, but still...).
posted by dobbs at 3:22 PM on October 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
In my mid sized European city, we had an influx of tailors from Iran. Maybe Iranians get their clothes altered more? I suspect American cultural norms mean that a lot of clothes don’t get fixed in the same way, but there’s a lot of European areas where fit is very important, especially for things like jeans, and they’ve been keeping these tailors going with minor alterations.
posted by The River Ivel at 3:26 PM on October 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by The River Ivel at 3:26 PM on October 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
Bravó. Encore, mais avec l'électronique.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:16 PM on October 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:16 PM on October 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
Meh. This is one of those things that sounds neat, probably better than it would actually be.
On a personal level, I found buying longer lasting, repairable attire isn't really worth it. There are precious few articles of clothing or footwear I've wanted to keep for that long. The only thing I currently own that's worth repairing is a pair of Thorogood boots. They're work boots. The biggest reason I'd be reluctant to spend much effort getting them fixed is that they are easily the least comfortable properly sized shoes I have ever worn. They're durable as hell. And since I only wear them on appropriate occasion means they'll probably last forever, as long as my dog doesn't find them. Virtually everything else I wear is inexpensive enough that it's a waste to get professionally repaired even if they're repairable. Even if the government were to pay the bill.
posted by 2N2222 at 4:19 PM on October 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
On a personal level, I found buying longer lasting, repairable attire isn't really worth it. There are precious few articles of clothing or footwear I've wanted to keep for that long. The only thing I currently own that's worth repairing is a pair of Thorogood boots. They're work boots. The biggest reason I'd be reluctant to spend much effort getting them fixed is that they are easily the least comfortable properly sized shoes I have ever worn. They're durable as hell. And since I only wear them on appropriate occasion means they'll probably last forever, as long as my dog doesn't find them. Virtually everything else I wear is inexpensive enough that it's a waste to get professionally repaired even if they're repairable. Even if the government were to pay the bill.
posted by 2N2222 at 4:19 PM on October 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
In my mid sized European city, we had an influx of tailors from Iran.
This happened in SoCal too. Presumably, with the fall of the Shah — that also tracks with them starting to go away, as the proprietors reach retirement age. The few that remain are presumably the families with kids who were interested in staying in the trade over other more 'professional' careers.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:25 PM on October 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
This happened in SoCal too. Presumably, with the fall of the Shah — that also tracks with them starting to go away, as the proprietors reach retirement age. The few that remain are presumably the families with kids who were interested in staying in the trade over other more 'professional' careers.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:25 PM on October 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
My neoliberal instinct is that this is clunky: If the problem is people buying too many new clothes, tax new clothes. If the problem is people throwing away too much junk, put higher fees on trash.
But the problem is that repairable clothing is wastefully being thrown out. If you tax new clothes, you will achieve the opposite effect of what you want; cheap disposable clothes will be a larger share of the market. If you tax garbage, you will do next to nothing on this front, as clothing is a small share of the household waste stream and many households in France live in multi-family buildings with shared garbage collection.
And any policy involving the cost of clothing is really working with a poor signal because clothing production has a lot of externalities -- labour abuse, water consumption, pollution -- that are not priced into the clothing, and that are unlikely to be in the near future (since fibre and garment production are low-capital low-skill industries that are done largely interchangeably by low-income countries; Vietnam is not well motivated to regulate their garment labour, which would just increase prices and shift exports to Bangladesh or whoever).
Simple economics can easily produce simple -- and incorrect -- solutions. Say that a tailor can repair 20 garments a day and works 225 days a year. If they live in a community of 10,000 people, one in four of which repair a garment in a given year, how many garments will they repair? The simple answer is to ignore the first sentence as a red herring, and conclude that 10,000 / 4 = 2,500 garments repaired per year.
But the first sentence is actually crucial; the tailor can repair 20 * 225 = 4,500 garments in a year, so if only one in four people fix a garment, the tailor will not have nearly enough business to keep the lights on, they will close shop and the correct answer is actually that no garments at all will be repaired. And not only 2,500 garments that people wanted to have fixed get thrown out, the years of experience and skill that the tailor has are also discarded. (And yes, this is a made-up example and there are lots of large cities in France; but it's important to consider that unless it's a wedding dress or vintage Dior or something, people aren't going to spend an hour on the metro going to fix their clothes, so garment repair depends on local markets.)
I was wondering how many businesses this is; I couldn't find clothing repair statistics, but there are around 3,500 shoe and leather goods repair shops in France (compared with about 800 in the five-times-larger USA). If there are a similar number of clothing repair shops to shoe shops, this is €4-5K per shop per year, which is not a huge amount but could help keep the lights on in some marginal cases.
posted by Superilla at 4:54 PM on October 4, 2023 [8 favorites]
But the problem is that repairable clothing is wastefully being thrown out. If you tax new clothes, you will achieve the opposite effect of what you want; cheap disposable clothes will be a larger share of the market. If you tax garbage, you will do next to nothing on this front, as clothing is a small share of the household waste stream and many households in France live in multi-family buildings with shared garbage collection.
And any policy involving the cost of clothing is really working with a poor signal because clothing production has a lot of externalities -- labour abuse, water consumption, pollution -- that are not priced into the clothing, and that are unlikely to be in the near future (since fibre and garment production are low-capital low-skill industries that are done largely interchangeably by low-income countries; Vietnam is not well motivated to regulate their garment labour, which would just increase prices and shift exports to Bangladesh or whoever).
Simple economics can easily produce simple -- and incorrect -- solutions. Say that a tailor can repair 20 garments a day and works 225 days a year. If they live in a community of 10,000 people, one in four of which repair a garment in a given year, how many garments will they repair? The simple answer is to ignore the first sentence as a red herring, and conclude that 10,000 / 4 = 2,500 garments repaired per year.
But the first sentence is actually crucial; the tailor can repair 20 * 225 = 4,500 garments in a year, so if only one in four people fix a garment, the tailor will not have nearly enough business to keep the lights on, they will close shop and the correct answer is actually that no garments at all will be repaired. And not only 2,500 garments that people wanted to have fixed get thrown out, the years of experience and skill that the tailor has are also discarded. (And yes, this is a made-up example and there are lots of large cities in France; but it's important to consider that unless it's a wedding dress or vintage Dior or something, people aren't going to spend an hour on the metro going to fix their clothes, so garment repair depends on local markets.)
I was wondering how many businesses this is; I couldn't find clothing repair statistics, but there are around 3,500 shoe and leather goods repair shops in France (compared with about 800 in the five-times-larger USA). If there are a similar number of clothing repair shops to shoe shops, this is €4-5K per shop per year, which is not a huge amount but could help keep the lights on in some marginal cases.
posted by Superilla at 4:54 PM on October 4, 2023 [8 favorites]
“Sewing in a new zipper costs more than a new jacket at H&M,” says Paumier
This is absolutely part of the problem. I had a pair of work boots resoled recently, it cost $150. Same pair of boots new? ~$200. We can get into the weeds about how a lot boots cost much more than that, but the vast majority of people are not wearing anything that pricey. A lot of the time it is absolutely cheaper to get something new than to repair it. Glad that someone is taking things a step in the right direction.
posted by ockmockbock at 4:57 PM on October 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
This is absolutely part of the problem. I had a pair of work boots resoled recently, it cost $150. Same pair of boots new? ~$200. We can get into the weeds about how a lot boots cost much more than that, but the vast majority of people are not wearing anything that pricey. A lot of the time it is absolutely cheaper to get something new than to repair it. Glad that someone is taking things a step in the right direction.
posted by ockmockbock at 4:57 PM on October 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Frowner, I was so shocked 5 years ago in Nigeria to get a pair of plastic flipflops mended by the cobbler for (calculates exchange rate) pennies! he machine sewed the break, they lasted another year. Best thing ever to wear in the rainy season. And here in uk we have a cobbler in the high street who will also mend anything, for more like a fiver tho. Very worth doing, well done France, keep those artisans in business.
posted by glasseyes at 5:00 PM on October 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by glasseyes at 5:00 PM on October 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
I got a pair of hiking boots repaired recently. The soles were coming unglued, so getting them glued back on plus courtesy cleaning and waterproofing cost me $25. I go to a cobbler in the nearest city to me, which is an hour drive away. So I combine errands when I go, which means my boots were sitting around waiting for me to take them in for a couple months, until there was a time I was going in during the day, and would be back the next week also during the day. But it’s worth the extra effort for me to be able to get things repaired when they are only minorly broken, and it’s quite affordable (for shoe repairs - clothing alterations cost more) in my experience.
New soles are going to be more expensive than just re-gluing, but $150 sounds extortionate.
posted by eviemath at 5:18 PM on October 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
New soles are going to be more expensive than just re-gluing, but $150 sounds extortionate.
posted by eviemath at 5:18 PM on October 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
people aren't going to spend an hour on the metro going to fix their clothes
Well obviously not. But that's not how it works. People are already on the metro, so at most it's an extra stop, and these shops are likely in a downtown or local commercial center where people are going to be anyway. Since (IME) they use little space, they can exist in even somewhat high-rent areas. Looking in San Francisco, there appear to be a dozen shoe repair spots around the city, many downtown but also in neighborhood centers, so the business is not dead yet, apparently.
IMO this is also an example of why downtowns are so important and functional, which has often been forgotten in the last few years.
posted by alexei at 5:28 PM on October 4, 2023 [13 favorites]
Well obviously not. But that's not how it works. People are already on the metro, so at most it's an extra stop, and these shops are likely in a downtown or local commercial center where people are going to be anyway. Since (IME) they use little space, they can exist in even somewhat high-rent areas. Looking in San Francisco, there appear to be a dozen shoe repair spots around the city, many downtown but also in neighborhood centers, so the business is not dead yet, apparently.
IMO this is also an example of why downtowns are so important and functional, which has often been forgotten in the last few years.
posted by alexei at 5:28 PM on October 4, 2023 [13 favorites]
Well obviously not. But that's not how it works. People are already on the metro, so at most it's an extra stop, and these shops are likely in a downtown or local commercial center where people are going to be anyway.
In my experience, not really. Are you going to carry around some old clothes with you all day so you can stop at a repair shop that might take a couple days to fix the item and you actually don't know if you are going to be in the area again any time soon because it is actually kind of inconvenient from your office or whatever?
Around here, anyway, almost every dry cleaner does basic repairs, and there is a guy with a truck that does shoe repair, sofa reupholstery (maybe just minor repairs? I have never really asked), and knife sharpening. He parks outside the gate to my apartment complex once or twice a week and people bring out their stuff.
Similarly, there is a guy with a bike repair business in his truck that comes by once a week or so to do basic bicycle maintenance. I'm lucky enough that bicycle repair is also offered for free (or the cost of parts) at the local community center, so it keeps my crummy commuter in working order. That being said, every year the apartment maintenance staff purge hundreds of derelict bikes from the apartment complex bike racks (in a complex of a bit over 1,000 units), so even with all these options available for keeping bikes on the road, they still get abandoned by the truckload.
To bring this back to clothes, I regularly go around to various apartment complex clothes recycling areas (they are actually run by private companies, but whatever) and find people's thrown away brand name items that are basically new. The majority of my wardrobe is made up from these found clothes, which is to say that repairing clothes is one piece to the equation, but people just buying stuff and then never wearing it is another problem on its own.
posted by Literaryhero at 6:29 PM on October 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
In my experience, not really. Are you going to carry around some old clothes with you all day so you can stop at a repair shop that might take a couple days to fix the item and you actually don't know if you are going to be in the area again any time soon because it is actually kind of inconvenient from your office or whatever?
Around here, anyway, almost every dry cleaner does basic repairs, and there is a guy with a truck that does shoe repair, sofa reupholstery (maybe just minor repairs? I have never really asked), and knife sharpening. He parks outside the gate to my apartment complex once or twice a week and people bring out their stuff.
Similarly, there is a guy with a bike repair business in his truck that comes by once a week or so to do basic bicycle maintenance. I'm lucky enough that bicycle repair is also offered for free (or the cost of parts) at the local community center, so it keeps my crummy commuter in working order. That being said, every year the apartment maintenance staff purge hundreds of derelict bikes from the apartment complex bike racks (in a complex of a bit over 1,000 units), so even with all these options available for keeping bikes on the road, they still get abandoned by the truckload.
To bring this back to clothes, I regularly go around to various apartment complex clothes recycling areas (they are actually run by private companies, but whatever) and find people's thrown away brand name items that are basically new. The majority of my wardrobe is made up from these found clothes, which is to say that repairing clothes is one piece to the equation, but people just buying stuff and then never wearing it is another problem on its own.
posted by Literaryhero at 6:29 PM on October 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Wait they have Old Navy in France, the fashion capital of the world….why??? I’m at a loss, unless it’s US fashion like Jerry Lewis was US comedy?
posted by LizBoBiz at 7:05 PM on October 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by LizBoBiz at 7:05 PM on October 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
> Bravó. Encore, mais avec l'électronique.
"France’s new requirements for longer-lasting electronics aim to encourage maintenance and consequently reduce electrical and electronic waste (e-waste) from discarded devices and appliances.—
The country’s new Repairability Index also represents a key first step towards a circular economy for digital tech and household goods.
As of the start of this year, France became the first European country to implement a legally binding repairability index, with a new set of criteria for manufacturers spanning five types of electronics and home appliances.
The new Anti-waste Law (2020-105), also described as a ‘law against waste and for the circular economy’, requires producers of electronic devices such as smartphones, TVs, and laptops to disclose how ‘repairable’ their products are on a scale of one to ten."
The International Telecommunication Union (ITU) is the United Nations specialized agency for information and communication technologies – ICTs.
https://www.itu.int/hub/2021/10/frances-repairability-index-inches-toward-circular-economy/#:~:text=France%E2%80%99s%20new%20requirements,one%20to%20ten
"On April 22, 2023, France published three new decrees in the Official Journal covering the availability of spare parts for the following products: motorized DIY and gardening tools, sports and leisure equipment and motorized personal transport devices. These texts aim to guarantee that spare parts, including spare parts from the circular economy, are made available for the maintenance and repair of defined products. This will contribute towards the implementation of a circular economy where resources are used more responsibly and sustainably, give consumers greater choice when choosing parts for repair – new versus circular economy parts – and reduce the environmental impact of these products by extending their life span."—
https://www.sgs.com/en/news/2023/05/safeguards-5423-new-reparability-decrees-in-france#:~:text=On%20April%2022%2C%202023%2C%20France%20published%20three,these%20products%20by%20extending%20their%20life%20span.
The French anti-waste and circular economy legislation will create a fund dedicated to the financing of repairs.posted by sebastienbailard at 8:12 PM on October 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
France plans to introduce the repair fund for electrical and electronic equipment (EEE) like printers and computers etc., on the 1 January 2022 via the countries Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR) channels. The fund will provide a reduction in the repair bills paid by consumers.
https://www.therecycler.com/posts/france-to-tackle-the-cost-of-repairs/
Half the time when your zipper is broken it’s not actually missing any teeth- the slide is just gotten bent out of shape and needs to be replaced. Zipper slides are 10 cent parts. This is more like 90% of the time on your luggage where pulls get abused.
A friendly zipper fact.
posted by q*ben at 8:16 PM on October 4, 2023 [12 favorites]
A friendly zipper fact.
posted by q*ben at 8:16 PM on October 4, 2023 [12 favorites]
About 10 years ago I was coming home from work. About 3 doors up the street from my building, I noticed someone had put a pair of womens' boots out by the trash.
They were fairly nice boots. In my size. And I have a bit of an odd sized foot.
I stopped to examine them. They were a little wear-and-tear scuffed, but the only thing I could really find wrong with them was - one of them had a broken zipper. I took them home immediately, and after a test wear to check the fit (they fit perfectly, BTW) I brought them to a cobbler in the neighborhood to get that zipper fixed.
And that is how I got a pair of dress boots for only $20.
Repairing clothing is smart, yo.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:16 PM on October 4, 2023 [17 favorites]
They were fairly nice boots. In my size. And I have a bit of an odd sized foot.
I stopped to examine them. They were a little wear-and-tear scuffed, but the only thing I could really find wrong with them was - one of them had a broken zipper. I took them home immediately, and after a test wear to check the fit (they fit perfectly, BTW) I brought them to a cobbler in the neighborhood to get that zipper fixed.
And that is how I got a pair of dress boots for only $20.
Repairing clothing is smart, yo.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:16 PM on October 4, 2023 [17 favorites]
Belated apologies for the broken link earlier. That is all.
posted by Bella Donna at 3:18 AM on October 5, 2023
posted by Bella Donna at 3:18 AM on October 5, 2023
You can actually do quite a lot with many cheap shoes to extend their life.
And here in uk we have a cobbler in the high street who will also mend anything, for more like a fiver tho.
And if you're very lucky, the nice man in Timpson's will fix the flappy sole on your cheap knock-off Redwings and then refuse to charge you for it because, while perfectly functional, he couldn't make it look as neat as he thought it should.
If you're in the UK and think cheap shoes can't be repaired, take them to Timpson's. Seriously, in my experience they'll have a go at most things and often not charge you if it doesn't work out.
posted by BlueNorther at 3:58 AM on October 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
And here in uk we have a cobbler in the high street who will also mend anything, for more like a fiver tho.
And if you're very lucky, the nice man in Timpson's will fix the flappy sole on your cheap knock-off Redwings and then refuse to charge you for it because, while perfectly functional, he couldn't make it look as neat as he thought it should.
If you're in the UK and think cheap shoes can't be repaired, take them to Timpson's. Seriously, in my experience they'll have a go at most things and often not charge you if it doesn't work out.
posted by BlueNorther at 3:58 AM on October 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
...I'm sorry, I don't know why that last bit insists on being in italics but I can't persuade it not to. Anyway, Timpson's ftw! They also guarantee job interviews for people leaving prison who often struggle to find work, so double win.
posted by BlueNorther at 4:02 AM on October 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by BlueNorther at 4:02 AM on October 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
There's a small independent business that opened near me called "Fix Your Kicks" which does repair on sneakers and really any kind of shoe you need fixing. I had some new-ish Ecco brand boots I had paid probably $150 for which had started to come apart at the seams after very little wear. Problem was I got them on sale the season before, and no longer had the receipt, and it was probably a year and a half until I got them fixed.
Anyway, they did a really great job patching and repairing them. Problem was it was $65 plus tax for the repairs. Didn't break my bank account, and it was worth it, but barely. I understand the small biz needs to make money, but a $65 repair is probably out of bounds for lower income people. It wasn't replacing some exotic high end leather, just a couple triangular patches and some new stitching. The repair price would likely be the same or close on any shoe/boot, regardless of price.
I'd love to see more of this, but with fast fashion so crazy inexpensive, I find it hard to believe the fix-it places could serve lower income people with any consistency, regardless of subsidies.
posted by SoberHighland at 5:35 AM on October 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
Anyway, they did a really great job patching and repairing them. Problem was it was $65 plus tax for the repairs. Didn't break my bank account, and it was worth it, but barely. I understand the small biz needs to make money, but a $65 repair is probably out of bounds for lower income people. It wasn't replacing some exotic high end leather, just a couple triangular patches and some new stitching. The repair price would likely be the same or close on any shoe/boot, regardless of price.
I'd love to see more of this, but with fast fashion so crazy inexpensive, I find it hard to believe the fix-it places could serve lower income people with any consistency, regardless of subsidies.
posted by SoberHighland at 5:35 AM on October 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
SoberHighland: I had some new-ish Ecco brand boots I had paid probably $150 for... Problem was it was $65 plus tax for the repairs.
The economic distortion here, I think, is how little the people who made your shoes were probably paid. If they were paid fairly, the original shoe cost would've been higher, and the repair cost might've been more worth it in comparison.
And of course that would put decent shoes out of reach for many people. Right now we've organized our economy around making prices barely tolerable for poor people here, on the backs of intolerable wages for poor people somewhere else, and I dunno what the answer is.
posted by clawsoon at 6:00 AM on October 5, 2023 [6 favorites]
The economic distortion here, I think, is how little the people who made your shoes were probably paid. If they were paid fairly, the original shoe cost would've been higher, and the repair cost might've been more worth it in comparison.
And of course that would put decent shoes out of reach for many people. Right now we've organized our economy around making prices barely tolerable for poor people here, on the backs of intolerable wages for poor people somewhere else, and I dunno what the answer is.
posted by clawsoon at 6:00 AM on October 5, 2023 [6 favorites]
Skipping TFA and most of the thread to make an observation: Not France, but I was recently travelling in Italy, off the beaten track, staying in Airbnbs in neighborhoods that were non- or minimally-gentrified, where a walk would take you past a hardware store with pruning shears on display but no tourist osteria or souvenir shops.
I saw small hole-in-the-wall tailor shops in every town (4/4) I visited. If France is anything at all like Italy, the infrastructure is in place and it won't cater mostly the elites.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 7:30 AM on October 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
I saw small hole-in-the-wall tailor shops in every town (4/4) I visited. If France is anything at all like Italy, the infrastructure is in place and it won't cater mostly the elites.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 7:30 AM on October 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
@clawsoon neatly recapitulates the "Boots Theory of Economic Inequality."
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 7:33 AM on October 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 7:33 AM on October 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
SoberHighland: I had some new-ish Ecco brand boots I had paid probably $150 for... Problem was it was $65 plus tax for the repairs.
The economic distortion here, I think, is how little the people who made your shoes were probably paid.
Sure the people who make shoes don't get paid much, but they are also able to take advantage of mass production techniques and have an endless supply of material and design specs at their disposal, whereas the guy who repairs shoes has to bake all those costs into every single job. A repair basically turns a mass-produced item into a custom-built item, and the cost differential between the two is real.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:23 AM on October 5, 2023 [7 favorites]
I mean, that's why so many people (it's me) goes on youtube to take advantage of the built in knowledge base to try to repair things. The materials cost is just one portion of the total expense.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:29 AM on October 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:29 AM on October 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
also I will say, outside of the most bottom of the barrel fast fashion trash you can fix a lot of problems in chain store quality clothing. I've fixed tears in basic button down shirts from old navy or target, I've glued back together shoes that cost 30 bucks. It's not only high end clothing is able to be repaired. Also, while shoe repairs can be fairly spendy, I've had minor tailoring repairs done that were like 5 bucks.
Maybe if fast fashion is such irreparable trash there should be enormous tariffs on it to discourage the import and production of said garbage.
posted by Ferreous at 8:37 AM on October 5, 2023 [7 favorites]
Maybe if fast fashion is such irreparable trash there should be enormous tariffs on it to discourage the import and production of said garbage.
posted by Ferreous at 8:37 AM on October 5, 2023 [7 favorites]
Repair work was part of the ecology/economy of local skilled optimization that included fitting and went up to custom making (which could be fancy, the part that barely survives in the US, or simple). AIUI, where there are lots of these, they sort themselves into different classes, but in harder times getting enough repair work can keep a shop open until people can afford custom clothes again.
posted by clew at 9:10 AM on October 5, 2023
posted by clew at 9:10 AM on October 5, 2023
snuffleupagus: Bravó. Encore, mais avec l'électronique.
Carinthia / Kärnten, the southern Austrian state I call home, has a program like this for repairing electronics. They'll kick in up to 100 Euros toward repair of qualifying electronics by a qualifying repair firm. I've used this once, so far, to have someone take a look at our washing machine, which had started making some loud noises. Turned out it was an easy fix, and it was nice to have the price offset. I also plan to take my Samsung Note 8 in for a glass case replacement. 200 Euros is the normal cost, but I will be able to get it done for half the price.
Austria had a program like this at the federal level last year. I'm not sure whether it's still going.
EmpressCallipygos: And that is how I got a pair of dress boots for only $20.
I bought a pair of $800 Italian designer boots in Miami for $100. They'd been sitting in the hot Miami sun in the shop window, and the sun had bleached the black goatskin leather. I polished them up and wore them in Miami. Later, visiting my mom in Texas, I took them to the local cobbler (goes by Smiley). He charged me $40 to recondition the leather, and they were like new when he finished. They're still in great shape, 15 years later.
And that is how I got a pair of Italian designer boots for $140 :)
------
I keep clothes practically forever. I'm sure I still have (and even wear) some items I've had more than 20 years. My wife, M-I-L and wife's aunt are all good, to differing degrees, at repairing clothes, and that helps. We also have tailors and cobblers in town who will repair clothes and shoes at reasonable prices, so it's not too hard to keep quality items serviceable for a while.
Unfortunately, I recently threw away a pair of almost new Nike basketball shoes because the rubber soles were coming off. I'd had them in the basement for way too long. I then bought a new pair over the weekend. In retrospect, I wish I would have taken the old pair to the cobbler to see whether he could have fixed them. Other than the soles coming off, they looked like they'd never been worn.
posted by syzygy at 9:29 AM on October 5, 2023 [6 favorites]
Carinthia / Kärnten, the southern Austrian state I call home, has a program like this for repairing electronics. They'll kick in up to 100 Euros toward repair of qualifying electronics by a qualifying repair firm. I've used this once, so far, to have someone take a look at our washing machine, which had started making some loud noises. Turned out it was an easy fix, and it was nice to have the price offset. I also plan to take my Samsung Note 8 in for a glass case replacement. 200 Euros is the normal cost, but I will be able to get it done for half the price.
Austria had a program like this at the federal level last year. I'm not sure whether it's still going.
EmpressCallipygos: And that is how I got a pair of dress boots for only $20.
I bought a pair of $800 Italian designer boots in Miami for $100. They'd been sitting in the hot Miami sun in the shop window, and the sun had bleached the black goatskin leather. I polished them up and wore them in Miami. Later, visiting my mom in Texas, I took them to the local cobbler (goes by Smiley). He charged me $40 to recondition the leather, and they were like new when he finished. They're still in great shape, 15 years later.
And that is how I got a pair of Italian designer boots for $140 :)
------
I keep clothes practically forever. I'm sure I still have (and even wear) some items I've had more than 20 years. My wife, M-I-L and wife's aunt are all good, to differing degrees, at repairing clothes, and that helps. We also have tailors and cobblers in town who will repair clothes and shoes at reasonable prices, so it's not too hard to keep quality items serviceable for a while.
Unfortunately, I recently threw away a pair of almost new Nike basketball shoes because the rubber soles were coming off. I'd had them in the basement for way too long. I then bought a new pair over the weekend. In retrospect, I wish I would have taken the old pair to the cobbler to see whether he could have fixed them. Other than the soles coming off, they looked like they'd never been worn.
posted by syzygy at 9:29 AM on October 5, 2023 [6 favorites]
also I will say, outside of the most bottom of the barrel fast fashion trash you can fix a lot of problems in chain store quality clothing. I've fixed tears in basic button down shirts from old navy or target, I've glued back together shoes that cost 30 bucks. It's not only high end clothing is able to be repaired. Also, while shoe repairs can be fairly spendy, I've had minor tailoring repairs done that were like 5 bucks.
Where this gets less true is with knits, and especially women's knit clothing. That tends to be made of incredibly shitty viscose blends that could no doubt be repaired by a skilled and patient person, but they are so thin and fragile that most darns and mends are going to be lumpy and extremely visible, and not in any kind of cool boro way. A small separation right on the seam could probably be fixed by a careful person. The more clothes are supposed to cling tightly to the body, the harder they are to repair.
(This is different than woven clothes which are cut and fitted close to the body - fascinatingly, one of the reasons that corsets/stays/pairs of bodies/etc work as they do is so that the woven garments can be fitted very exactly over a predictable and firm shape without any stretch. Also the weight of the garments can be supported by the core through the corset and that makes it easier to wear heavy, sweepy clothes.)
posted by Frowner at 9:32 AM on October 5, 2023 [8 favorites]
Where this gets less true is with knits, and especially women's knit clothing. That tends to be made of incredibly shitty viscose blends that could no doubt be repaired by a skilled and patient person, but they are so thin and fragile that most darns and mends are going to be lumpy and extremely visible, and not in any kind of cool boro way. A small separation right on the seam could probably be fixed by a careful person. The more clothes are supposed to cling tightly to the body, the harder they are to repair.
(This is different than woven clothes which are cut and fitted close to the body - fascinatingly, one of the reasons that corsets/stays/pairs of bodies/etc work as they do is so that the woven garments can be fitted very exactly over a predictable and firm shape without any stretch. Also the weight of the garments can be supported by the core through the corset and that makes it easier to wear heavy, sweepy clothes.)
posted by Frowner at 9:32 AM on October 5, 2023 [8 favorites]
Maybe if fast fashion is such irreparable trash there should be enormous tariffs on it to discourage the import and production of said garbage.
IMO the majority of clothes are disposed of because either fashions change or the person's size changes, not because it was actually worn out or damaged. So again IMO the complaints about fast fashion should be more that it enables affordable 'fast fashion', not that it's made cheaply. So to me, moderate tariffs against fast fashion would be a good idea, but I also recognize that is extremely class-based, and that I as a middle class white guy can afford the decreased social capital associated with wearing clothes that are out of style. I recognize that is not true of everyone.
Also that people change sizes - some of it is unable to be controlled -kids for example, and the rest I'm not actually sure it's a 'problem' that needs to be dealt with.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:35 AM on October 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
IMO the majority of clothes are disposed of because either fashions change or the person's size changes, not because it was actually worn out or damaged. So again IMO the complaints about fast fashion should be more that it enables affordable 'fast fashion', not that it's made cheaply. So to me, moderate tariffs against fast fashion would be a good idea, but I also recognize that is extremely class-based, and that I as a middle class white guy can afford the decreased social capital associated with wearing clothes that are out of style. I recognize that is not true of everyone.
Also that people change sizes - some of it is unable to be controlled -kids for example, and the rest I'm not actually sure it's a 'problem' that needs to be dealt with.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:35 AM on October 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Those can be valid issues but at the same time don't justify the use of sweatshop or slave labor to create clothes that are meant to be functionally disposable at huge environmental and human costs. In a system with better quality clothing all around second hand use of clothes is far more viable solution for kids or other people with body change related needs. Most stuff you find in thrift stores these days is unsalable junk that ends up treating the global south as a landfill.
posted by Ferreous at 10:31 AM on October 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Ferreous at 10:31 AM on October 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
Most stuff you find in thrift stores these days is unsalable junk that ends up treating the global south as a landfill.
This is not my experience of thrifting. The sheer volume of it defines its (lack of) value, not it's quality. Every member of the global south doesn't need 1000 shirts, nor do I (or anyone else at the store) even if each costs a nickel and is made of fabric that would last 50 years.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:16 AM on October 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
This is not my experience of thrifting. The sheer volume of it defines its (lack of) value, not it's quality. Every member of the global south doesn't need 1000 shirts, nor do I (or anyone else at the store) even if each costs a nickel and is made of fabric that would last 50 years.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:16 AM on October 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
This is not my experience of thrifting. The sheer volume of it defines its (lack of) value, not it's quality
It's both. So:
- You have clothing that is stained, which no one knows how to get the stains out, and the fabric was made cheaply such that it stains immensely easily.
- You have clothing that is poorly cut in such a way that it is flattering for nearly no one
- You have clothing that is made of cheap material, such that it is flattering for nearly no one.
- You have clothing that only exists in a specific variety of sizes, most of which don't fit most people going there.
And if by chance you happen to find something that isn't cheaply made, it's going to cost about the same as it would cost to buy a new piece of clothing in a store.
posted by corb at 11:39 AM on October 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's both. So:
- You have clothing that is stained, which no one knows how to get the stains out, and the fabric was made cheaply such that it stains immensely easily.
- You have clothing that is poorly cut in such a way that it is flattering for nearly no one
- You have clothing that is made of cheap material, such that it is flattering for nearly no one.
- You have clothing that only exists in a specific variety of sizes, most of which don't fit most people going there.
And if by chance you happen to find something that isn't cheaply made, it's going to cost about the same as it would cost to buy a new piece of clothing in a store.
posted by corb at 11:39 AM on October 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
Thrifting has changed almost completely in the last 15-20 years. Often, items of real value are put aside (ethically or unethically) by the charity organization employees and sold to "regulars" who are often re-sellers who put it up on Ebay or whatever.
My friend used to do this. She'd get items that were quietly "put aside" by the clerks at the Salvation Army (or whatever). She bought them at an unethical cash-markup from the unethical employees of the thrift organization, so that minimum-wage paid person turned a small profit. Then my friend would re-sell the item (her most lucrative were women's sweaters) and sometimes make $50-$300 on a sale from her Ebay store. A much larger profit.
The clerks doing this get paid very little, and have little to lose. They see a Gucci label or Ralph Lauren tag or whatever on a piece of clothing that's not damaged, and just "set it aside" for a day or two. An Ebay reseller (my friend certainly wasn't the only one) would come in regularly and ask the thrift employee for the "good stuff." Meanwhile all the regular stuff makes it to the floor of the thrift shop and gets sold for a few dollars each.
Not saying this happens everywhere all the time. But in better neighborhoods, there's wealthy people that wear an outfit once or twice and then get rid of them. Certain thrift stores are known for having high quality goods that can be sold on Ebay for a good profit.
My friend no longer does this as it's kind of a PITA and she was working a full time job on top of all this, and just drifted out of the "business." But she's told me the stories. She made $600 on a woman's sweater one time.
Yes, it is true you can still get decent to good items at thrift stores, I'm just saying what happens in specific neighborhoods in a wealthy city in the USA.
posted by SoberHighland at 12:12 PM on October 5, 2023 [8 favorites]
My friend used to do this. She'd get items that were quietly "put aside" by the clerks at the Salvation Army (or whatever). She bought them at an unethical cash-markup from the unethical employees of the thrift organization, so that minimum-wage paid person turned a small profit. Then my friend would re-sell the item (her most lucrative were women's sweaters) and sometimes make $50-$300 on a sale from her Ebay store. A much larger profit.
The clerks doing this get paid very little, and have little to lose. They see a Gucci label or Ralph Lauren tag or whatever on a piece of clothing that's not damaged, and just "set it aside" for a day or two. An Ebay reseller (my friend certainly wasn't the only one) would come in regularly and ask the thrift employee for the "good stuff." Meanwhile all the regular stuff makes it to the floor of the thrift shop and gets sold for a few dollars each.
Not saying this happens everywhere all the time. But in better neighborhoods, there's wealthy people that wear an outfit once or twice and then get rid of them. Certain thrift stores are known for having high quality goods that can be sold on Ebay for a good profit.
My friend no longer does this as it's kind of a PITA and she was working a full time job on top of all this, and just drifted out of the "business." But she's told me the stories. She made $600 on a woman's sweater one time.
Yes, it is true you can still get decent to good items at thrift stores, I'm just saying what happens in specific neighborhoods in a wealthy city in the USA.
posted by SoberHighland at 12:12 PM on October 5, 2023 [8 favorites]
Want to add: I'm not casting shade on employees of thrift stores. They're running the same racket my friend was running. And they make far too little money for their work,
posted by SoberHighland at 12:54 PM on October 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by SoberHighland at 12:54 PM on October 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
I've actually had decent luck patching knit clothing with patches made from (thrifted, size XS, natch) knit clothing of similar fabric and shade, and lots of zigzag stitch on my sewing machine. Yeah, it's visible, but in a cool boro way indeed, and seems to hold up decently.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 1:05 PM on October 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by I claim sanctuary at 1:05 PM on October 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
SoberHighland: I had some new-ish Ecco brand boots I had paid probably $150 for... Problem was it was $65 plus tax for the repairs.
The economic distortion here, I think, is how little the people who made your shoes were probably paid.
It's further distorted when you consider that the company selling the shoe probably spent $20 to get them manufactured. The price you pay for shoes is generally WAAAAY more than the cost to the manufacturer.
posted by MrBobaFett at 1:34 PM on October 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
The economic distortion here, I think, is how little the people who made your shoes were probably paid.
It's further distorted when you consider that the company selling the shoe probably spent $20 to get them manufactured. The price you pay for shoes is generally WAAAAY more than the cost to the manufacturer.
posted by MrBobaFett at 1:34 PM on October 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Back in the days when I was a whitewater guide and doing a lot off rock climbing, I resoled not only my climbing shoes, but my whitewater sandals (I forget whether they were Teva or Chacos, both were popular at the time, and we tended to put climbing rubber on both of them). And, of course, in my Birkenstock years I also re-soled those, or had them re-soled.
These days I tend to wear minimalist shoes, and those soles wear through fairly quickly, so I recently bought some gasket rubber and Shoe GOO and slapped a new heel on those. I need to find a cheaper source of rubber.
But in all of that, it was only the Birkenstocks that I had re-soled, and those largely because the last remaining shoe repair store in San Rafael California was run by some distant relatives of my wife. Else I'd just do it myself. And I know where to find local folks with a sewing machine to do alterations to vintage clothing, or at least I did before my favorite vintage clothing store got priced out of the rental market here, but.... I'm a software developer. I wear jeans and T-shirts until they literally fall apart, and only wear the vintage stuff when I'm playing dress-up.
And, sure, I pay extra for the real cotton jeans, because the fabric lasts longer, but I also wear clothes pretty hard, and unless I'm gonna go full hippy and do flower patches on my denim it's hard to justify doing anything with decade old jeans that I've worn through.
But that brings me to SoberHighland's note about thrifting: those folks who were stashing the good stuff behind the counter and getting a kickback were just keeping the money local. As this Planet Money episode on the afterlife of a T-shirt talks about, the major thrift chains are already centralizing sorting and redistributing clothing donations, selling the high value stuff to the vintage dealers, and I think Goodwill's experiment with the "Georgi & Willow" brand was a victim of Covid, but they were trying to cut out the vintage dealers altogether.
posted by straw at 3:35 PM on October 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
These days I tend to wear minimalist shoes, and those soles wear through fairly quickly, so I recently bought some gasket rubber and Shoe GOO and slapped a new heel on those. I need to find a cheaper source of rubber.
But in all of that, it was only the Birkenstocks that I had re-soled, and those largely because the last remaining shoe repair store in San Rafael California was run by some distant relatives of my wife. Else I'd just do it myself. And I know where to find local folks with a sewing machine to do alterations to vintage clothing, or at least I did before my favorite vintage clothing store got priced out of the rental market here, but.... I'm a software developer. I wear jeans and T-shirts until they literally fall apart, and only wear the vintage stuff when I'm playing dress-up.
And, sure, I pay extra for the real cotton jeans, because the fabric lasts longer, but I also wear clothes pretty hard, and unless I'm gonna go full hippy and do flower patches on my denim it's hard to justify doing anything with decade old jeans that I've worn through.
But that brings me to SoberHighland's note about thrifting: those folks who were stashing the good stuff behind the counter and getting a kickback were just keeping the money local. As this Planet Money episode on the afterlife of a T-shirt talks about, the major thrift chains are already centralizing sorting and redistributing clothing donations, selling the high value stuff to the vintage dealers, and I think Goodwill's experiment with the "Georgi & Willow" brand was a victim of Covid, but they were trying to cut out the vintage dealers altogether.
posted by straw at 3:35 PM on October 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's both. So:
I still don't know...from the NPR article. Clothes that fail to sell at Goodwill go overseas:
1) "It's in remarkably good condition, though, for being 20 years old." - for a t-shirt for a ceremony, probably worn once at most.
2) "(Through interpreter) This may not be abusive, but..." - offensive or abusive text on the shirt. Extremely limited market, even in the US.
3) "It's size extra-large, wherein lies the wide gulf between the Western T-shirt market and the African physique. Many of the used shirts that pop out of a bale in African simply cannot be sold as is." -- body shape changes.
It also says that stained shirts are turned into dog beds and teddy bear stuffing, so even Goodwill isn't putting that stuff on the floor. The stuff on the floor of a thrift store is out of style, not damaged.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:43 AM on October 6, 2023
I still don't know...from the NPR article. Clothes that fail to sell at Goodwill go overseas:
1) "It's in remarkably good condition, though, for being 20 years old." - for a t-shirt for a ceremony, probably worn once at most.
2) "(Through interpreter) This may not be abusive, but..." - offensive or abusive text on the shirt. Extremely limited market, even in the US.
3) "It's size extra-large, wherein lies the wide gulf between the Western T-shirt market and the African physique. Many of the used shirts that pop out of a bale in African simply cannot be sold as is." -- body shape changes.
It also says that stained shirts are turned into dog beds and teddy bear stuffing, so even Goodwill isn't putting that stuff on the floor. The stuff on the floor of a thrift store is out of style, not damaged.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:43 AM on October 6, 2023
It also says that stained shirts are turned into dog beds and teddy bear stuffing, so even Goodwill isn't putting that stuff on the floor. The stuff on the floor of a thrift store is out of style, not damaged.
Yeah, but it doesn't say how stains are defined. Like, the number one kind of stain I get that ruins my clothing and makes it unusable for me is the same type of stain I tend to see at thrift stores - oil/grease stains, where it's not a colored stain, but there is a slightly darker spot on the fabric. That means I can't wear it, and I'd better hope I notice, but there's no guarantee that will be noticed by people trying to get stuff out onto the floor. I don't even blame them.
posted by corb at 12:45 PM on October 6, 2023
Yeah, but it doesn't say how stains are defined. Like, the number one kind of stain I get that ruins my clothing and makes it unusable for me is the same type of stain I tend to see at thrift stores - oil/grease stains, where it's not a colored stain, but there is a slightly darker spot on the fabric. That means I can't wear it, and I'd better hope I notice, but there's no guarantee that will be noticed by people trying to get stuff out onto the floor. I don't even blame them.
posted by corb at 12:45 PM on October 6, 2023
In my county, the Recycling Ambassadors and other volunteers run Fix-It Clinics, usually held in public library meeting rooms once a month around the area. Volunteers proficient in sewing, small engines, electrical repairs, and similar fix whatever people bring in to be repaired--new zippers in jackets, jeans, coveralls, etc, fixing tears/holes in jeans and other clothing, hemming/shortening pants/skirts/ sleeves, sewing on buttons, and similar sewing/mending. Other volunteers fix lamps, vacuum cleaners, small appliances, radios/stereos, blenders, fans, toasters, jewelry, sewing machines, and other items. Not usually shoes, although some sneakers have shown up to be glued. No guarantee an item will be fixed, but we give it our best shot. People are encouraged to learn from the volunteers about how to fix things. Referrals are offered for major repairs or proper disposal of unrepairable items. It is a fun and useful 3 hours--people save some money and stuff can be kept out of the landfills.
posted by Nosey Mrs. Rat at 2:59 PM on October 8, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by Nosey Mrs. Rat at 2:59 PM on October 8, 2023 [7 favorites]
> who is buying shoes that a cobbler can repair these days
> I am. It's one of the factors I take into consideration when buying shoes in the first place.
Same here. I have dress boots and work boots that I spent $ on up front and have now owned for decades through multiple repairs and re-solings. I care for them well (enlisted soldier Army veteran), and they look glorious in their patinated age and are now enormously comfortable.
posted by vitia at 9:43 AM on October 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
> I am. It's one of the factors I take into consideration when buying shoes in the first place.
Same here. I have dress boots and work boots that I spent $ on up front and have now owned for decades through multiple repairs and re-solings. I care for them well (enlisted soldier Army veteran), and they look glorious in their patinated age and are now enormously comfortable.
posted by vitia at 9:43 AM on October 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
This post has been added to the Best Of blog !
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:05 AM on October 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:05 AM on October 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
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