Avoiding the News - ethical?
October 21, 2023 9:09 AM Subscribe
Five years ago we learned of one man's struggle to avoid the news, in a NY Times article, The Man Who Knew Too Little. (Archive link, and previously.) He called it The Blockade, or a DIY version of moving to Canada. Inside Hook has an update, an even more radical approach: Could "News Sobriety" Save Your Mental Health?
"No notifications, no nothing. It's a seductive idea, but is it ethical?" The subject of this one claims that he's been 'sober' for ten years now. Do you believe we have a civic responsibility to 'keep up' with The News?
"No notifications, no nothing. It's a seductive idea, but is it ethical?" The subject of this one claims that he's been 'sober' for ten years now. Do you believe we have a civic responsibility to 'keep up' with The News?
"No notifications, no nothing. It's a seductive idea, but is it ethical?" The subject of this one claims that he's been 'sober' for ten years now. Do you believe we have a civic responsibility to 'keep up' with The News?
I've never kept, or subscribed to, a news feed. I have zero notifications. I watch no tv news. MeFi counts as anything remotely resembling a "news" site that I might frequent. Oddly, though, I keep quite up-to-date with the world's news. It seems that anything that actually matters has a way of leaking out into the wider world.
On the down side, merely knowing the news makes me a nervous wreck these days.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:40 AM on October 21, 2023 [31 favorites]
I've never kept, or subscribed to, a news feed. I have zero notifications. I watch no tv news. MeFi counts as anything remotely resembling a "news" site that I might frequent. Oddly, though, I keep quite up-to-date with the world's news. It seems that anything that actually matters has a way of leaking out into the wider world.
On the down side, merely knowing the news makes me a nervous wreck these days.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:40 AM on October 21, 2023 [31 favorites]
oh, right:
- pick a lane. the metric you use for determining your lane is "can i use knowledge of news from this lane to make conversations on a dying website from the late 1900s more weird?" follow news from that lane, post recherché nonsense about it whenever possible.
"He wouldn’t put it exactly this way, but he talks about the land in part as penance for the moral cost of his Blockade. He has come to believe that being a news consumer doesn’t enhance society. He also believes that restoring a former coal mine and giving it to the future does."
+100.
I know lots of folks who are online a lot and extremely doom-y. It's hard not to be when you read lots of news: The news is oriented around bad stuff happening right now, which leads to focusing on the bad things that can happen in the future. As we move towards more globalized news, there's a bigger pool to pull 'bad stuff' from, and it's increasingly non-local, and thus removed from the average reader's day-to-day life. It's stuff we have no ability to influence or control, which increases our sense of powerlessness.
We can't fix everything, but we can, individually, improve something and strive to leave the world a somewhat better place than it would otherwise be. Lots of the things that can most use improvement are local, and completely outside of the realm of the news: improving a local bit of land either through a preservation project or just guerilla gardening, helping out with an after-school program, or getting a stop-light installed.
And while this might sound like hiding, it's actually practicing power. Power is making decisions and changing the world, even in small ways. And it is a muscle, which can weaken and atrophy when left unused. When all one does is read the news and complain about the world, one is practicing powerlessness. On the other hand, once you do get that stop-light installed, it can lead to bigger things: now you know how to get a stop-light installed, which involves a level of coordination and knowledge that will make it easier to enact the next change.
posted by kaibutsu at 9:46 AM on October 21, 2023 [43 favorites]
+100.
I know lots of folks who are online a lot and extremely doom-y. It's hard not to be when you read lots of news: The news is oriented around bad stuff happening right now, which leads to focusing on the bad things that can happen in the future. As we move towards more globalized news, there's a bigger pool to pull 'bad stuff' from, and it's increasingly non-local, and thus removed from the average reader's day-to-day life. It's stuff we have no ability to influence or control, which increases our sense of powerlessness.
We can't fix everything, but we can, individually, improve something and strive to leave the world a somewhat better place than it would otherwise be. Lots of the things that can most use improvement are local, and completely outside of the realm of the news: improving a local bit of land either through a preservation project or just guerilla gardening, helping out with an after-school program, or getting a stop-light installed.
And while this might sound like hiding, it's actually practicing power. Power is making decisions and changing the world, even in small ways. And it is a muscle, which can weaken and atrophy when left unused. When all one does is read the news and complain about the world, one is practicing powerlessness. On the other hand, once you do get that stop-light installed, it can lead to bigger things: now you know how to get a stop-light installed, which involves a level of coordination and knowledge that will make it easier to enact the next change.
posted by kaibutsu at 9:46 AM on October 21, 2023 [43 favorites]
I've become disinterested in news of the world and pop culture as I've gotten older... There's nothing new under the sun. It's just wrapped in different paper.
posted by Czjewel at 9:53 AM on October 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Czjewel at 9:53 AM on October 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
it's important to note, too, that avoiding the day to day stream of news in favor of reading a lot of books is a way to watch the deep underlying persistent currents instead of getting distracted by the frothy aleatoric waves on the surface, the stuff that seems very important indeed the day it happens but which if remembered at all will be remembered as pieces of obscure trivia.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:53 AM on October 21, 2023 [21 favorites]
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:53 AM on October 21, 2023 [21 favorites]
He called it The Blockade, or a DIY version of moving to Canada.
We... also have news in Canada...?
posted by heatherlogan at 9:54 AM on October 21, 2023 [64 favorites]
We... also have news in Canada...?
posted by heatherlogan at 9:54 AM on October 21, 2023 [64 favorites]
I've been thinking a lot lately about how I felt more comprehensively informed twenty years ago, when things weren't quite so 24/7. The daily newspaper had the stories that it had, but because they were on paper, I actually generally read the whole thing: it was consumable, and it was finite.
Online, I'm less likely to click on stories that I'm not already interested in, and the constant flow of new stories means that it's impossible to "finish" the news. Hence the rise of doomscrolling and all its negative effects.
There are definite benefits to the new model: the ease of publishing has opened up the world to new voices and perspectives that got smoothed together or ignored in the previous era. But it has its own way of narrowing focus and polarizing people (to say nothing of the fact that the financial model supporting journalism has completely collapsed).
posted by thecaddy at 10:05 AM on October 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
Online, I'm less likely to click on stories that I'm not already interested in, and the constant flow of new stories means that it's impossible to "finish" the news. Hence the rise of doomscrolling and all its negative effects.
There are definite benefits to the new model: the ease of publishing has opened up the world to new voices and perspectives that got smoothed together or ignored in the previous era. But it has its own way of narrowing focus and polarizing people (to say nothing of the fact that the financial model supporting journalism has completely collapsed).
posted by thecaddy at 10:05 AM on October 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
I've long been skeptical of The News for reasons, Breaking News in particular by which I mean big deal world breaking to the point of apocalyptic stuff, or maybe just horrible (the latest school shooting, for instance). But the outbreak of the war in Ukraine marked a change in my overall strategy toward taking on the state of the world. Starting in early 2022, I cut Breaking News out pretty much altogether -- certainly in terms of tracking it myself, day by day, minute by minute. Because, quite simply, there's NOTHING I can do about it except get swallowed.
The only exceptions are local things (ie: things I can do something about), things that are of professional interest (ie: ignorance of them could negatively effect me in that regard) and big deal stuff that I find actually entertaining (ie: the Speaker stuff).
But this is just about online stuff (and TV). As I put it a while back in this askMe answer
I subscribe to the Guardian Weekly -- which tends to show up ten days or two weeks after the fact. So whatever's making the headlines, it's always way in the rear view in comparison to whatever's breaking right now right here on CNN or wherever. It may be bloody awful news but still, something about it being already "old" calms me. I guess it tells me, well, okay that thing you thought was the end of the fucking world two weeks ago wasn't, humanity has survived, we've got other problems now, maybe even bigger ones, but what the hell, you can read about them in two weeks. In the meantime, concentrate on your breathing, and tend that garden.
Highly recommended.
posted by philip-random at 10:06 AM on October 21, 2023 [9 favorites]
The only exceptions are local things (ie: things I can do something about), things that are of professional interest (ie: ignorance of them could negatively effect me in that regard) and big deal stuff that I find actually entertaining (ie: the Speaker stuff).
But this is just about online stuff (and TV). As I put it a while back in this askMe answer
I subscribe to the Guardian Weekly -- which tends to show up ten days or two weeks after the fact. So whatever's making the headlines, it's always way in the rear view in comparison to whatever's breaking right now right here on CNN or wherever. It may be bloody awful news but still, something about it being already "old" calms me. I guess it tells me, well, okay that thing you thought was the end of the fucking world two weeks ago wasn't, humanity has survived, we've got other problems now, maybe even bigger ones, but what the hell, you can read about them in two weeks. In the meantime, concentrate on your breathing, and tend that garden.
Highly recommended.
posted by philip-random at 10:06 AM on October 21, 2023 [9 favorites]
I honestly don't know. Ten years ago I would have said that it's the responsibility of a citizen in a democracy to stay informed, but what does that even mean in the age of the internet when people are exposed to more (possibly false) information than they can possibly process, let alone act meaningfully on?
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:10 AM on October 21, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:10 AM on October 21, 2023 [14 favorites]
We... also have news in Canada...?
Yes, but, it’s that silly metric news.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:21 AM on October 21, 2023 [21 favorites]
Yes, but, it’s that silly metric news.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:21 AM on October 21, 2023 [21 favorites]
Read all the news you can handle at once in the morning, or evening, or whenever suits you and ignore it the rest of the day. Avoiding doomscrolling can be done without being ignorant.
posted by farlukar at 10:22 AM on October 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by farlukar at 10:22 AM on October 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
On one hand I see being able to accept the world’s realities as a sign of functional adulthood, but on the other hand I see my father get worked up about real things he can’t change and thanks to social media, fake things designed to upset him and worry that he will give himself a heart attack. Why not moderate, curated consumption of news instead of complete abstinence?
posted by Selena777 at 10:29 AM on October 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Selena777 at 10:29 AM on October 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
A lot of (if not all) online breaking news sources and social media algorithms are optimized for creating clicks and interaction. In other words, optimized for making you feel anxious or angry. Cutting back on that stuff seems like a healthy move and isn't remotely unethical. Personally I go through phases, times where I enjoy being connected to that flow of both information and outrage, and other times where I can feel it making me anxious so I disconnect.
But, I do feel like keeping abreast of at least the large strokes of society (meaning arts, culture, environment, political trends) is healthy and helps one be engaged in the world. Having said that, I still wouldn't say that someone who chooses to disconnect from that as well is "unethical" any more than I'd say that disengaging (to the extent possible) from the monetary economy is "unethical."
posted by Dip Flash at 10:31 AM on October 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
But, I do feel like keeping abreast of at least the large strokes of society (meaning arts, culture, environment, political trends) is healthy and helps one be engaged in the world. Having said that, I still wouldn't say that someone who chooses to disconnect from that as well is "unethical" any more than I'd say that disengaging (to the extent possible) from the monetary economy is "unethical."
posted by Dip Flash at 10:31 AM on October 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
Ten years ago I would have said that it's the responsibility of a citizen in a democracy to stay informed
I wouldn't say that I feel very well informed about events in the Middle East, or Ukraine, or the House of Representatives, despite these topics dominating the major news sites at the moment. I have read stories about these things, full of characters, plots, pathos, poetry, surprises, cliff-hangers, and so on. I know that many have died and many are suffering, and it worries me and saddens me and angers me, and so I feel the need to read more stories to find out how it all turns out.
I would like to think that if I didn't have this news habit, and instead got most of my information from books, long walks, and my own observations of the world directly in front of me, that I would actually understand a lot more of what was happening in the Middle East, Ukraine, the House of Representatives, or anywhere else. Because maybe this narrow focus would provide a depth of understanding that penetrates beyond the surface level.
Instead of casting a wide net, I would cast a single line, and instead of pulling up garbage, I'd pull up exactly what I was looking for, from somewhere deep and dark.
It takes more patience and skill that way, but that's the dream.
posted by swift at 10:32 AM on October 21, 2023 [10 favorites]
I wouldn't say that I feel very well informed about events in the Middle East, or Ukraine, or the House of Representatives, despite these topics dominating the major news sites at the moment. I have read stories about these things, full of characters, plots, pathos, poetry, surprises, cliff-hangers, and so on. I know that many have died and many are suffering, and it worries me and saddens me and angers me, and so I feel the need to read more stories to find out how it all turns out.
I would like to think that if I didn't have this news habit, and instead got most of my information from books, long walks, and my own observations of the world directly in front of me, that I would actually understand a lot more of what was happening in the Middle East, Ukraine, the House of Representatives, or anywhere else. Because maybe this narrow focus would provide a depth of understanding that penetrates beyond the surface level.
Instead of casting a wide net, I would cast a single line, and instead of pulling up garbage, I'd pull up exactly what I was looking for, from somewhere deep and dark.
It takes more patience and skill that way, but that's the dream.
posted by swift at 10:32 AM on October 21, 2023 [10 favorites]
When I lived in Canberra, I stopped reading the news because it was too depressing, and then one day I was hanging out the washing and flakes of ash the size of my thumbnail were falling from the sky, and I realised that I had no way of knowing if my city was on fire, and how close the fire was to me, and if I was in danger. (The fire was actually a long way away - it was the massive Blue Mountain fires, the wind had carried the ash.)
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 10:42 AM on October 21, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 10:42 AM on October 21, 2023 [17 favorites]
What with everything going on in the world, a couple of years ago I could feel myself really taking a mental health battering that just seemed worse every day. So I just really scaled back my news consumption. I still am up to date with local news and politics (i.e. my town and county), reasonably up to date with culture and business news and very up to date with the niche topics that really interest me (e.g. transport.) And that's all: nothing else. Some targeted filters keep everything I don't want to see out of my inbox, I'm very good at not looking at sidebars on some websites and there are some sites I just don't visit anymore.
And it has worked. I'm a lot less stressed than I was, at the cost of being a lot less informed. I'm fine with this trade off. It's how I can be normal.
An unexpected upside is that although I tried using keywords to block some social media posts, certain stories kept breaking through. So my social media use has essentially dropped to zero, which means both less stress and more free time.
posted by YoungStencil at 10:52 AM on October 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
And it has worked. I'm a lot less stressed than I was, at the cost of being a lot less informed. I'm fine with this trade off. It's how I can be normal.
An unexpected upside is that although I tried using keywords to block some social media posts, certain stories kept breaking through. So my social media use has essentially dropped to zero, which means both less stress and more free time.
posted by YoungStencil at 10:52 AM on October 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
Swift, you must already know people who don’t consume much news. Do you get the feeling that they have a deeper understanding of the issues?
posted by Selena777 at 10:58 AM on October 21, 2023
posted by Selena777 at 10:58 AM on October 21, 2023
a DIY version of moving to Canada.
We... also have news in Canada...?
To be clear, the goal of Erik Hagerman, subject of the NY Times article, was to avoid hearing anything about the then-president (since presumably, one sees less of TFG in Canadian media); whereas the strategy of Sam Corcos, subject of this new article, is to avoid everything online and just read books, instead.
posted by Rash at 10:59 AM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
We... also have news in Canada...?
To be clear, the goal of Erik Hagerman, subject of the NY Times article, was to avoid hearing anything about the then-president (since presumably, one sees less of TFG in Canadian media); whereas the strategy of Sam Corcos, subject of this new article, is to avoid everything online and just read books, instead.
posted by Rash at 10:59 AM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'd say it's the responsibility of a citizen to vote well. I can't pin down what this means, but I'm sure it doesn't require being up on the news all the time.
I don't think it requires doing a bunch of research, necessarily, either. If you know some people in your local community whose values you align with and who you have good reason to think are more informed than you, I think you can reasonably rely on that as an information gathering option. And even if you do research, it doesn't have to be all formal news - you can go out to events, etc.
So I also don't buy into the idea that it's inherently virtuous or necessary to be "up on the news".
News is a revenue-generating activity and it's skewed towards what keeps eyeballs glued. Anger and anxiety are by far the easiest to provoke, and they're addictive.
Purveyors of news are not engaged in a project to cultivate citizens who have the best possible overall perspective on reality. They exist to sell news.
posted by lookoutbelow at 11:02 AM on October 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
I don't think it requires doing a bunch of research, necessarily, either. If you know some people in your local community whose values you align with and who you have good reason to think are more informed than you, I think you can reasonably rely on that as an information gathering option. And even if you do research, it doesn't have to be all formal news - you can go out to events, etc.
So I also don't buy into the idea that it's inherently virtuous or necessary to be "up on the news".
News is a revenue-generating activity and it's skewed towards what keeps eyeballs glued. Anger and anxiety are by far the easiest to provoke, and they're addictive.
Purveyors of news are not engaged in a project to cultivate citizens who have the best possible overall perspective on reality. They exist to sell news.
posted by lookoutbelow at 11:02 AM on October 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
Nobody is under any obligation to consume what's called "the news" in the US. It's a commercial product, propaganda, or both. I feel it's important to stay informed, but news in the US doesn't serve that purpose generally.
posted by abucci at 11:03 AM on October 21, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by abucci at 11:03 AM on October 21, 2023 [11 favorites]
> (since presumably, one sees less of TFG in Canadian media);
one of the less important but nevertheless truly infuriating drawbacks of massive globe-spanning imperial states is that you can never escape news from the metropole no matter where you go.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 11:16 AM on October 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
one of the less important but nevertheless truly infuriating drawbacks of massive globe-spanning imperial states is that you can never escape news from the metropole no matter where you go.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 11:16 AM on October 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
presumably, one sees less of TFG in Canadian media
Nope. We get everything about him, plus all our own homegrown assholes.
posted by saturday_morning at 11:17 AM on October 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
Nope. We get everything about him, plus all our own homegrown assholes.
posted by saturday_morning at 11:17 AM on October 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
We... also have news in Canada...?
posted by heatherlogan at 12:54 on October 21
meh, give this to our American friends. God knows many of us Canadians have a hard time getting through a day without laughing or shaking our heads at the latest follies out of the US (and have done since before Canada was Canada).
posted by senor biggles at 11:33 AM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by heatherlogan at 12:54 on October 21
meh, give this to our American friends. God knows many of us Canadians have a hard time getting through a day without laughing or shaking our heads at the latest follies out of the US (and have done since before Canada was Canada).
posted by senor biggles at 11:33 AM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
I remember when that NYT article about the guy who ignored the news was first posted on Metafilter. Some people howled about how "privileged" he was and other racist oriented nonsense instead of admitting how relatable that desire is. Choosing to ignore the news is a perfectly sane thing to do.
I wouldn't want to ignore all of it completely but dialing it back significantly will only improve your sanity and help your animal brain to stop from tailspinning into anxiety every day.
posted by Liquidwolf at 11:45 AM on October 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
I wouldn't want to ignore all of it completely but dialing it back significantly will only improve your sanity and help your animal brain to stop from tailspinning into anxiety every day.
posted by Liquidwolf at 11:45 AM on October 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
The only pundit I seek out to read any more is Bill Palmer of the Palmer Report. This isn't to say that I always agree with him, especially since he's got a lot of axes to grind. But there are a couple of those axes that no one else is grinding.
One is that the mainstream media is not on your side. There are no ratings in good news, at least not the kind that feed on themselves. Clicks are driven by fear, shock, hate. To get those, it inflates threats so much that they actually come into existence. Hillary's emails! Trump as a serious candidate! They got clicks, and that was all the media wanted.
For that reason, it's important not to be terrified by a political news story without further, deeper insight into it. A lot of awful things haven't come to pass -- the government shutdowns, Trump avoiding consequences, Fani Willis being ousted, etc. He likes to say that no one in government "has a magic wand," and they can't just make things happen without consequences or process. Getting unwarranted power from the media increases their ability to do what they can, though. Obviously, terrible things do happen every day, but if you're paralyzed with fear about things that aren't as likely to, you aren't working to prepare for or fight the things that will.
posted by Countess Elena at 11:48 AM on October 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
One is that the mainstream media is not on your side. There are no ratings in good news, at least not the kind that feed on themselves. Clicks are driven by fear, shock, hate. To get those, it inflates threats so much that they actually come into existence. Hillary's emails! Trump as a serious candidate! They got clicks, and that was all the media wanted.
For that reason, it's important not to be terrified by a political news story without further, deeper insight into it. A lot of awful things haven't come to pass -- the government shutdowns, Trump avoiding consequences, Fani Willis being ousted, etc. He likes to say that no one in government "has a magic wand," and they can't just make things happen without consequences or process. Getting unwarranted power from the media increases their ability to do what they can, though. Obviously, terrible things do happen every day, but if you're paralyzed with fear about things that aren't as likely to, you aren't working to prepare for or fight the things that will.
posted by Countess Elena at 11:48 AM on October 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 11:51 AM on October 21, 2023 [5 favorites]War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
What is right with this picture?
I do feel that it’s a good idea to be informed about the news of your community and, to a lesser extent, the world at large. However, given how damned noisy the information environment has become, I think it’s extremely reasonable to limit the pace of news you keep up with, and be intentional in how you do so.
For myself, I seem to have settled on a twice-weekly purely-local news podcast which is a good length for dog walks; a weekly newsletter for professional news; and a weekly world news magazine. I pick up some additional daily news through my work Slack, a professional community Slack, and MetaFilter; but apart from those sites I pretty much ignore social media at this point. (Having previously been addicted to Twitter, it’s felt weird but very refreshing!)
posted by learning from frequent failure at 12:00 PM on October 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
For myself, I seem to have settled on a twice-weekly purely-local news podcast which is a good length for dog walks; a weekly newsletter for professional news; and a weekly world news magazine. I pick up some additional daily news through my work Slack, a professional community Slack, and MetaFilter; but apart from those sites I pretty much ignore social media at this point. (Having previously been addicted to Twitter, it’s felt weird but very refreshing!)
posted by learning from frequent failure at 12:00 PM on October 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Years ago, I cut down my news consumption considerably. I listen to NPR's morning news podcast, keep up with a couple local subreddits, and that's about it. I figure anything else important I need to know about will find me, and it certainly does. It's been so great for my mental health.
posted by SansPoint at 12:02 PM on October 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by SansPoint at 12:02 PM on October 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
I can see how making the argument about how ethical it is gets pretty finger waggy very quickly. I don't think there's a strong ethical argument to be made.
I haven't been a big news consumer for decades. Not only is it time consuming, it's also pointlessly stressful. These days, I give a quick look at lite.cnn.com for broad info. A local TV channel's news site for any relevant local stuff. (Los Angeles... most places have no comparable outlet). A few niche sources online. These provide more than enough grist to follow in more detail for topics that are close to my interests. Following any/all of the topics presented out of some sense of duty is a path to madness. And it's a path that's too easily derailed for most people. Maybe all. For any number of reasons.
I think it takes a certain amount of wisdom/self restraint/self awareness to not not follow news. To allow oneself the privilege of restricting one's consumption of news is the simplest of self care.
posted by 2N2222 at 12:05 PM on October 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
I haven't been a big news consumer for decades. Not only is it time consuming, it's also pointlessly stressful. These days, I give a quick look at lite.cnn.com for broad info. A local TV channel's news site for any relevant local stuff. (Los Angeles... most places have no comparable outlet). A few niche sources online. These provide more than enough grist to follow in more detail for topics that are close to my interests. Following any/all of the topics presented out of some sense of duty is a path to madness. And it's a path that's too easily derailed for most people. Maybe all. For any number of reasons.
I think it takes a certain amount of wisdom/self restraint/self awareness to not not follow news. To allow oneself the privilege of restricting one's consumption of news is the simplest of self care.
posted by 2N2222 at 12:05 PM on October 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Funny how these articles always seem to come out when a lot of the wealthy and powerful don't want people watching the day's news.
posted by MrVisible at 12:23 PM on October 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by MrVisible at 12:23 PM on October 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
I’ve cut my news intake to the daily newspaper (delivered in dead tree format and read over coffee with breakfast), CBC radio, and the occasional item online. No television news. I avoid most news about internal USA politics and affairs. Nothing I can do about what you guys are doing down there, and the news that makes it up here seems to be mostly depressing crazy-town stuff anyways.
That seems to be enough to keep me up to date with local, Canadian, and world news without being overwhelming.
posted by fimbulvetr at 12:39 PM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
That seems to be enough to keep me up to date with local, Canadian, and world news without being overwhelming.
posted by fimbulvetr at 12:39 PM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
If you're going to do nothing with the news but worry about it -- if you don't vote, if you aren't an activist -- you could benefit by ignoring the news and you would do no harm to others. But I guess it's like keeping up with baseball: people do it out of curiosity and to give themselves something to talk about with others. "How 'bout them Mets?"
posted by pracowity at 12:51 PM on October 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by pracowity at 12:51 PM on October 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
If he needs to post on social media — or respond to someone — it’s handled through his executive assistants.
Extreme lifestyle choices like this almost always involve the paid help of other people that your average person doesn't have access to. Must be nice.
posted by tafetta, darling! at 1:09 PM on October 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
Extreme lifestyle choices like this almost always involve the paid help of other people that your average person doesn't have access to. Must be nice.
posted by tafetta, darling! at 1:09 PM on October 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
I stopped looking at a lot of news even before the Internet when I found out about "If it bleeds it leads". Since its gotten much worse since then I don't look at a lot.
That and I found myself disagreeing with most of the commenters (and the way the news itself was slanted).
Really, *why* would a National news service have a story about a local murder in a town on the other side of the Continent from me? Why would I read it?
posted by aleph at 1:19 PM on October 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
That and I found myself disagreeing with most of the commenters (and the way the news itself was slanted).
Really, *why* would a National news service have a story about a local murder in a town on the other side of the Continent from me? Why would I read it?
posted by aleph at 1:19 PM on October 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Funny how these articles always seem to come out when a lot of the wealthy and powerful don't want people watching the day's news.
WAKE UP SHEEPLE!
You have to go down a rabbit hole over who doesn't want you to know what (They don't want you to know!) and whatever reasons they may have. And then ignore the wealthy and powerful who are doing their best to keep you tuned in.
Really, do you think Fox/CBS/Bilderbergers/Soros are seeding stories trying to persuade you from watching the day's news?
posted by 2N2222 at 1:25 PM on October 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
WAKE UP SHEEPLE!
You have to go down a rabbit hole over who doesn't want you to know what (They don't want you to know!) and whatever reasons they may have. And then ignore the wealthy and powerful who are doing their best to keep you tuned in.
Really, do you think Fox/CBS/Bilderbergers/Soros are seeding stories trying to persuade you from watching the day's news?
posted by 2N2222 at 1:25 PM on October 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
This is something that has forever plagued my thinking. How much does the news affect your day-to-day life? Some people wholeheartedly get captured; it emitters them. Others shield & seem happier (having witnessed its effects on myself!). But urban life gives rise to a forevergoing push-pull. The news is relevant & affective. Sometimes even, interesting & helpful. A good means of self-selection is a good route to live by. But we're often if not always exposed to the 30-second dosage of your best headlines to capture my attention. The bread & butter of the printing press! It mutates - whether it be on Snapchat or MSN or a 2-minute radio show break, finding a way to live on.
posted by thisisarandomname07 at 1:28 PM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by thisisarandomname07 at 1:28 PM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
I can see how making the argument about how ethical it is gets pretty finger waggy very quickly.
Yes.
Whatever beneficial correlation I once thought existed between participating in social media and improving the world for anyone is now mostly gone when it comes to issues, news, or similar large-scale developments. Too many people are spreading too goddamn much misinformation. People I know and otherwise respect have turned into tiny Steve Bannons, flooding the zone with shit as fast as they can, and if they're called on it ("your video is actually from a bombing seven years ago," "the vaccine is widely available in our city, just call CVS," or whatever), many just throw up their hands, or ignore contrary evidence. Good information from reliable sources can, generally, be found at the reliable source, but "feeds," eh.
posted by cupcakeninja at 1:30 PM on October 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
Yes.
Whatever beneficial correlation I once thought existed between participating in social media and improving the world for anyone is now mostly gone when it comes to issues, news, or similar large-scale developments. Too many people are spreading too goddamn much misinformation. People I know and otherwise respect have turned into tiny Steve Bannons, flooding the zone with shit as fast as they can, and if they're called on it ("your video is actually from a bombing seven years ago," "the vaccine is widely available in our city, just call CVS," or whatever), many just throw up their hands, or ignore contrary evidence. Good information from reliable sources can, generally, be found at the reliable source, but "feeds," eh.
posted by cupcakeninja at 1:30 PM on October 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
While it's true that we, as observers, are essentially powerless to do much about a seemingly endless stream of catastrophes, both natural and man-made, I still sometimes wonder if that is the only criterion upon which to determine whether to be informed or not and the ethical implications of either approach.
And then, as a mental exercise, I try to use as much empathy as I can muster to ask how I'd feel in a world of turned tables. If a cat 5 hurricane or earthquake were to reduce my home to rubble or if the horrors of war invaded my neighborhood or region, would I want others outside of my region to be witness to it or to turn away + spare themselves the anxiety that witnessing my tragedy would probably bring?
Alas, this doesn't always make the decision all that much easier ... but it leads to other questions, such as whether witnessing such things and then communicating about them within one's small network might in some way bring about at least small changes as awareness grows to give such things more visibility ?
Of course another angle to consider in relation to all of this is how quickly media attention fades from one scenario to the next, doesn't Maui seem like eons ago in the news cycle? What about the catastrophic earthquake in Afghanistan recently? How valuable could bearing witness to such things be, really, when there's barely enough time for any single event to get the traction needed to affect change in any meaningful way?
No answers here, folks ... just a few additional questions to throw into the mix ... I'd not dare to come down on either side of this one, I've never been able to conclude whether monks retreating to a monastery are to be esteemed as honorable and noble or to be criticized as cowardly for disengaging from the world with all of its challenges and threats.
Of course one other consideration when it comes to choosing to remain engaged is all the intere$t$ $erved other than one's own (or of those unfortunate beneficiaries of the latest catastrophe) in so doing. Denying companies additional clicks might actually be the scale tipper that helps one decide to prefer one approach over the other, actually. Or at least in helping to reduce the # of news outlets / sources ( mefi remains a compelling alternative in such cases, luckily) :)
posted by clandestiny's child at 1:33 PM on October 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
And then, as a mental exercise, I try to use as much empathy as I can muster to ask how I'd feel in a world of turned tables. If a cat 5 hurricane or earthquake were to reduce my home to rubble or if the horrors of war invaded my neighborhood or region, would I want others outside of my region to be witness to it or to turn away + spare themselves the anxiety that witnessing my tragedy would probably bring?
Alas, this doesn't always make the decision all that much easier ... but it leads to other questions, such as whether witnessing such things and then communicating about them within one's small network might in some way bring about at least small changes as awareness grows to give such things more visibility ?
Of course another angle to consider in relation to all of this is how quickly media attention fades from one scenario to the next, doesn't Maui seem like eons ago in the news cycle? What about the catastrophic earthquake in Afghanistan recently? How valuable could bearing witness to such things be, really, when there's barely enough time for any single event to get the traction needed to affect change in any meaningful way?
No answers here, folks ... just a few additional questions to throw into the mix ... I'd not dare to come down on either side of this one, I've never been able to conclude whether monks retreating to a monastery are to be esteemed as honorable and noble or to be criticized as cowardly for disengaging from the world with all of its challenges and threats.
Of course one other consideration when it comes to choosing to remain engaged is all the intere$t$ $erved other than one's own (or of those unfortunate beneficiaries of the latest catastrophe) in so doing. Denying companies additional clicks might actually be the scale tipper that helps one decide to prefer one approach over the other, actually. Or at least in helping to reduce the # of news outlets / sources ( mefi remains a compelling alternative in such cases, luckily) :)
posted by clandestiny's child at 1:33 PM on October 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
And then, as a mental exercise, I try to use as much empathy as I can muster to ask how I'd feel in a world of turned tables.
100000%. I have been trying to do that, selectively, when reading the news this week. It actually inspired me to reach out to a colleague to see about doing a (small) thing to provide slightly better access to information for people trying to get information about one of those flood-the-zone-with-shit issues. We'll see if it pans out, but I was inspired by empathic thinking.
posted by cupcakeninja at 1:44 PM on October 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
100000%. I have been trying to do that, selectively, when reading the news this week. It actually inspired me to reach out to a colleague to see about doing a (small) thing to provide slightly better access to information for people trying to get information about one of those flood-the-zone-with-shit issues. We'll see if it pans out, but I was inspired by empathic thinking.
posted by cupcakeninja at 1:44 PM on October 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
Swift, you must already know people who don’t consume much news. Do you get the feeling that they have a deeper understanding of the issues?
I know people who don't consume much news, but they consume a lot of other online media. I would say they have a deep understanding of pop culture, trends, memes, etc. A lot of people fit into this category.
I don't think people who mostly read books and go on long walks are necessarily enlightened, but I think book-reading can lead to greater empathy, and a life with more IRL interaction can be more meaningful and less abstract than one spent in front of a screen. But I realize this position can be a privileged one.
My grandparents were people who lived in rural Texas, read a ton of books, and did not necessarily keep up with all the latest news. I think they had a deep understanding of "the issues" as it pertained to them -- raising various children, grandchildren, animals, etc. to be healthy and happy; understanding and reading people, and knowing when someone was full of shit; keeping up with their neighbors, who was sick, who needed help, whose kids were having kids of their own; maintaining contact with a local network of friends, businesses, and officials; and keeping up with their own little plot of land, the vegetable garden, the fence posts, the wasp nest by the barn, the live oak trees, the mailbox, the propane tank, the flower beds, the comings and goings of the birds, the movement of cattle on the ranch across the road, the Air Force jets maneuvering in the skies, the thermometer and the barometer and the rain gauge.
They did read the local newspaper, but I think the front page was the least interesting part to them.
I have no illusion that they would have a great understanding of Ukraine, but they knew conflict and war firsthand. They might not know much about the latest Israel and Palestine conflict, but they knew that history, and they had seen bigotry and religious persecution. And they might have had a surface knowledge of the current players in US politics, but they knew American history as well as anybody, and seen their fair share of shady Congress-folk.
So I just have to wonder if this hyper-connected lifestyle, with news and information constantly vying for attention, really grants us deeper understanding of the issues, or whether it grants us the illusion of understanding. It feels to me that after a certain point, there are steeply diminishing returns when it comes to consuming information.
What does it mean to be "ignorant?" Is it more ignorant to ignore The New York Times, or is it more ignorant to ignore the birds at the feeder?
posted by swift at 2:02 PM on October 21, 2023 [11 favorites]
I know people who don't consume much news, but they consume a lot of other online media. I would say they have a deep understanding of pop culture, trends, memes, etc. A lot of people fit into this category.
I don't think people who mostly read books and go on long walks are necessarily enlightened, but I think book-reading can lead to greater empathy, and a life with more IRL interaction can be more meaningful and less abstract than one spent in front of a screen. But I realize this position can be a privileged one.
My grandparents were people who lived in rural Texas, read a ton of books, and did not necessarily keep up with all the latest news. I think they had a deep understanding of "the issues" as it pertained to them -- raising various children, grandchildren, animals, etc. to be healthy and happy; understanding and reading people, and knowing when someone was full of shit; keeping up with their neighbors, who was sick, who needed help, whose kids were having kids of their own; maintaining contact with a local network of friends, businesses, and officials; and keeping up with their own little plot of land, the vegetable garden, the fence posts, the wasp nest by the barn, the live oak trees, the mailbox, the propane tank, the flower beds, the comings and goings of the birds, the movement of cattle on the ranch across the road, the Air Force jets maneuvering in the skies, the thermometer and the barometer and the rain gauge.
They did read the local newspaper, but I think the front page was the least interesting part to them.
I have no illusion that they would have a great understanding of Ukraine, but they knew conflict and war firsthand. They might not know much about the latest Israel and Palestine conflict, but they knew that history, and they had seen bigotry and religious persecution. And they might have had a surface knowledge of the current players in US politics, but they knew American history as well as anybody, and seen their fair share of shady Congress-folk.
So I just have to wonder if this hyper-connected lifestyle, with news and information constantly vying for attention, really grants us deeper understanding of the issues, or whether it grants us the illusion of understanding. It feels to me that after a certain point, there are steeply diminishing returns when it comes to consuming information.
What does it mean to be "ignorant?" Is it more ignorant to ignore The New York Times, or is it more ignorant to ignore the birds at the feeder?
posted by swift at 2:02 PM on October 21, 2023 [11 favorites]
I use a news break as my way of observing Shabbat. I really enjoy that one day away from the stress of the news cycle. The rest of the time, I try to use my local paper as my main news source, and that helps avoid the constant stress of 24 hour news.
Having the events in Israel happen during Sukkot this year really tested that for me, but it was probably good to take a breath before coming out of news isolation into the horror of reality.
posted by Flight Hardware, do not touch at 2:08 PM on October 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
Having the events in Israel happen during Sukkot this year really tested that for me, but it was probably good to take a breath before coming out of news isolation into the horror of reality.
posted by Flight Hardware, do not touch at 2:08 PM on October 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
Funny how these articles always seem to come out when a lot of the wealthy and powerful don't want people watching the day's news.
The wealthy and powerful famously never benefit from people watching the news, nor shape its content for this express purpose.
posted by atoxyl at 2:15 PM on October 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
The wealthy and powerful famously never benefit from people watching the news, nor shape its content for this express purpose.
posted by atoxyl at 2:15 PM on October 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
Obviously I'm being a little unfair here, and I don't mean to suggest that it's not possible to glean anything of value from news media, but when people talk about consciously disconnecting from The News, I have to think that impulse has a lot to do with the realization that a lot of it isn't fundamentally aiming to enlighten.
posted by atoxyl at 2:20 PM on October 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by atoxyl at 2:20 PM on October 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
Related: Local Newspapers Are Vanishing. How Should We Remember Them? (ProPublica)
posted by credulous at 2:23 PM on October 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by credulous at 2:23 PM on October 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Funny how these articles always seem to come out when a lot of the wealthy and powerful don't want people watching the day's news.
The wealthy and powerful famously never benefit from people watching the news, nor shape its content for this express purpose.
It's almost as though the wealthy and powerful have constructed society in such a way that almost any choice we make serves their interests in one way or another, and the only solution is to directly and permanently ensure that they can never do this again.
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:30 PM on October 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
The wealthy and powerful famously never benefit from people watching the news, nor shape its content for this express purpose.
It's almost as though the wealthy and powerful have constructed society in such a way that almost any choice we make serves their interests in one way or another, and the only solution is to directly and permanently ensure that they can never do this again.
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:30 PM on October 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
I think there's a huge difference between tuning out current events, which is unethical, and deciding not to participate in the 24/7 news cycle, which is a reasonable thing to do to protect your emotional well being. When I first started paying attention to world events, the way that you stayed abreast of the news was that you read the newspaper every morning and maybe you watched the news on TV every evening. And if something really earth-shattering happened, an announcer would break into whatever TV show was playing, and some friend or relative would probably call you and say "holy shit, turn on your TV, the president has been shot." But short of the president being shot, there wasn't an expectation that you had to experience breaking news in real time. That changed first with cable news channels and then with the internet, and now it seems natural that we're all plugged in 24/7. But I think it's fine to check in with breaking news daily or a couple of times a day, particularly if you supplement that with in-depth analysis that isn't produced in real time.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:39 PM on October 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:39 PM on October 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
So, we talk about this in terms of politics - and it's certainly possible to be an informed voter and get up to speed before an election without subscribing to the 24x7 news cycle - but the curious thing missing from these articles and this discussion are issues related to weather, local catastrophes and COVID-19.
In 2020 and 2021, there were extremely valuable things on the news related to the spread and risks of COVID, closures of businesses and local government offices, local regulations regarding masking, domestic or international travel restrictions, and availability of the vaccines. When I think about someone "avoiding the news" over the past several years, I wonder how they functioned during a bona fide pandemic.
Combine that with things like the Texas "big freeze" in 2021 - which in my recollection I received no government or emergency notifications for, despite being suddenly stranded without power or the easy ability to leave our home for 5 days. I was aware of the possibility of the big freeze and had prepared, but that was only due to following weather forecasts in the local media, and if I had not, we would not have had shelf-stable supplies of food and water. Even then, the situation was difficult and we followed on our cell phones and radio as much as we could to determine what was happening.
It is bizarre for me to think about giving up local media having to do with local health and safety issues, while the same time I understand (and think it's possible) to avoid engaging with national political media on a daily basis. These articles don't provide any sort of differentiation in those "types" of news, even though to me, they're as different as night and day.
posted by eschatfische at 2:42 PM on October 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
In 2020 and 2021, there were extremely valuable things on the news related to the spread and risks of COVID, closures of businesses and local government offices, local regulations regarding masking, domestic or international travel restrictions, and availability of the vaccines. When I think about someone "avoiding the news" over the past several years, I wonder how they functioned during a bona fide pandemic.
Combine that with things like the Texas "big freeze" in 2021 - which in my recollection I received no government or emergency notifications for, despite being suddenly stranded without power or the easy ability to leave our home for 5 days. I was aware of the possibility of the big freeze and had prepared, but that was only due to following weather forecasts in the local media, and if I had not, we would not have had shelf-stable supplies of food and water. Even then, the situation was difficult and we followed on our cell phones and radio as much as we could to determine what was happening.
It is bizarre for me to think about giving up local media having to do with local health and safety issues, while the same time I understand (and think it's possible) to avoid engaging with national political media on a daily basis. These articles don't provide any sort of differentiation in those "types" of news, even though to me, they're as different as night and day.
posted by eschatfische at 2:42 PM on October 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
I ran a script somewhere around the 2016 election to turn off retweets for everyone I was following on Twitter. Trump's idiot face and the shit he was doing kept creeping into my Twitter feed anyway. Then I moved to Mastodon, which has a switch that lets me turn off reblogs for everyone I follow. It's great. I still see news but it's when I explicitly say "I want to know what is going on in the world" and go look for it instead of having it constantly popping up when I just wanna know what my friends are doing.
I just do not want to see the fucking news 24/7 but it feels like all the corporate social media want me to. Or more precisely they want me to see Content that Creates Engagement, and they do not give a single shit as to whether it makes anyone happy to Engage with this Content, as long as they reply and/or reblog it. I'm just done with that.
posted by egypturnash at 2:48 PM on October 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
I just do not want to see the fucking news 24/7 but it feels like all the corporate social media want me to. Or more precisely they want me to see Content that Creates Engagement, and they do not give a single shit as to whether it makes anyone happy to Engage with this Content, as long as they reply and/or reblog it. I'm just done with that.
posted by egypturnash at 2:48 PM on October 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
I often think about the famous Lenin quote, “there are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen”. Newsworthy events are not evenly distributed over time but the news industry must deliver a same-sized package every day. In Interesting Times our media won’t be up to the task of keeping us caught up; when there’s not much happening they will fill space with garbage anyway. It’s like the loudness war with attention instead of audio: how can you know your local media is no longer just occupying space to maintain advertising relationships and reporting on something worth following, like a pandemic or other risk?
posted by migurski at 2:51 PM on October 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by migurski at 2:51 PM on October 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
We've been through terrible times before -- during the Reagan-Bush years, I always felt like NPR was a reasonable source of a reasonable worldview.
During Trump? Maybe I changed, but I think they did. The very real threat of No More Gov't Funding maybe? I couldn't even listen to them anymore. (And sorry, Steve Innskeep fans, but I couldn't listen to that guy in any case.)
So now I pick and choose my news.
The other day I asked my love if we could retire to Canada so I could have the CBC. Maybe it's just as bad, but I won't be informed enough to know.
posted by allthinky at 3:06 PM on October 21, 2023
During Trump? Maybe I changed, but I think they did. The very real threat of No More Gov't Funding maybe? I couldn't even listen to them anymore. (And sorry, Steve Innskeep fans, but I couldn't listen to that guy in any case.)
So now I pick and choose my news.
The other day I asked my love if we could retire to Canada so I could have the CBC. Maybe it's just as bad, but I won't be informed enough to know.
posted by allthinky at 3:06 PM on October 21, 2023
When 9-11 happened, I was working as a journalist, and I was in the newsroom when I saw the second plane fly into WTC. After that came an extreme intensity for years, and I think it might have broken me in a way that exacerbated my pre-existing PTSD.
So now, with the Hamas attack on Israel, I have avoided the news about the situation, because I could feel that same thing, I don't know what to call it. A sense of all reason draining out of the world, perhaps. The attack was so cruel, but also so insanely suicidal. Everyone knows what will happen now, whatever Biden or others try to say. I mean, I already wrote more than I wanted to.
The thing is, even though I avoid the news, I know exactly as much as my friend who follows the news very carefully. We were talking about it the other day, and both quite fascinated by the fact that it makes no difference. Obviously I don't live in a remote place with no internet, and I am involved in stuff, so I see headlines and hear news while I'm driving that I don't actively shut off. But still...
posted by mumimor at 3:09 PM on October 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
So now, with the Hamas attack on Israel, I have avoided the news about the situation, because I could feel that same thing, I don't know what to call it. A sense of all reason draining out of the world, perhaps. The attack was so cruel, but also so insanely suicidal. Everyone knows what will happen now, whatever Biden or others try to say. I mean, I already wrote more than I wanted to.
The thing is, even though I avoid the news, I know exactly as much as my friend who follows the news very carefully. We were talking about it the other day, and both quite fascinated by the fact that it makes no difference. Obviously I don't live in a remote place with no internet, and I am involved in stuff, so I see headlines and hear news while I'm driving that I don't actively shut off. But still...
posted by mumimor at 3:09 PM on October 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
Stories like this make me think of the Neal Stephenson novel Anathem<> wherein some of the characters are secluded monks in orders which only interact with the outside world every 1, 10, 100, or 1,000 years. I think just getting my news via a Sunday paper would be fine, allowing local emergency issues to break through.
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 3:09 PM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 3:09 PM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
After almost a year of not checking in on Xitter I popped back over to see what some of my favorite journalists who have written thoughtful pieces related to current news topics were linking to and the vast majority of comments on their posts were toxic diatribes, accusations, threats of violence, and hate speech. Don't read that shit. It's not good for you. But it's also not "news." Like others in this thread, I think that it makes sense to identify a few limited sources that will give you a good overview of what's happening in the world without transforming you into a doomsaying cynic. Not a single one of those sources should involve corporatized social media or any local news source that won't let you hide/avoid comments.
I'm coming to believe that there's a level of toxicity in self-care culture that excuses selfish and/or antisocial behavior. I think it's perfectly valid--desirable, even--to carefully manage your exposure to information in order to avoid overload and despair. But every single person I know in life who proudly proclaims that they don't watch any news makes me feel a level of visceral disgust--because every single one of them is lying. They are on TikTok, Facebook, and IG, and they are most certainly getting "news" from those places. And if it's not directly from the source, it's second or third hand from friends and co-workers.
For instance, I have one relative who prided herself on reading the real newspaper, front to back, every single day. Now the local paper only publishes one or two anemic hard copies on newsprint a week, so she cancelled it. Without realizing it, she now gets all her news from her Trumpy right wing boyfriend who spends all of his free time doing backstrokes in the MAGA media swamp. In the couple of years since she cancelled her paper subscription she's transformed from being one of the most well-informed relatives I have to being someone who sends "Biden dog abuse!!!!!" videos to the group text.
So even if you think you're on a news diet--you aren't. Better to cultivate your own sources than fall into the trap of relying on hearsay from your bubble buddies.
posted by MagnificentVacuum at 3:10 PM on October 21, 2023 [9 favorites]
I'm coming to believe that there's a level of toxicity in self-care culture that excuses selfish and/or antisocial behavior. I think it's perfectly valid--desirable, even--to carefully manage your exposure to information in order to avoid overload and despair. But every single person I know in life who proudly proclaims that they don't watch any news makes me feel a level of visceral disgust--because every single one of them is lying. They are on TikTok, Facebook, and IG, and they are most certainly getting "news" from those places. And if it's not directly from the source, it's second or third hand from friends and co-workers.
For instance, I have one relative who prided herself on reading the real newspaper, front to back, every single day. Now the local paper only publishes one or two anemic hard copies on newsprint a week, so she cancelled it. Without realizing it, she now gets all her news from her Trumpy right wing boyfriend who spends all of his free time doing backstrokes in the MAGA media swamp. In the couple of years since she cancelled her paper subscription she's transformed from being one of the most well-informed relatives I have to being someone who sends "Biden dog abuse!!!!!" videos to the group text.
So even if you think you're on a news diet--you aren't. Better to cultivate your own sources than fall into the trap of relying on hearsay from your bubble buddies.
posted by MagnificentVacuum at 3:10 PM on October 21, 2023 [9 favorites]
In 2020 and 2021, there were extremely valuable things on the news related to the spread and risks of COVID, closures of businesses and local government offices, local regulations regarding masking, domestic or international travel restrictions, and availability of the vaccines.That's interesting. I wasn't able to follow the 24/7 news cycle in March-July 2020 because of general life crap, and I don't actually feel like I missed out on much at all. It was fine to wait until the end of the day to find out about any changes to local regulations regarding masking and whatnot. And while I was back on Twitter and whatnot by the time vaccines became available, I actually found that the news media was pretty useless when it came to figuring out whether I was eligible for a vaccine and where to get one. I ended up finding one through a website set up by an IT guy at a local university, which turned out to be vastly more helpful than anything the news media or the government put out.
I don't know. I finally quit Twitter, and I think it's been good for my emotional well-being, so maybe that's what is driving this.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:13 PM on October 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
It was fine to wait until the end of the day to find out about any changes to local regulations regarding masking and whatnot.
I wasn't talking about being so plugged in you had to wait until the end of day to get guidance - certainly, many of us had to do that whether we wanted to or not! - I was talking about the "news sobriety" approach described in the OP, describing approaches replacing current news with books, which would have been absurd IMO during COVID or weather catastrophes, where day by day or week by week guidance was actually beneficial.
I don't know. I finally quit Twitter
Yeah, my comment certainly wasn't talking about Twitter. Oof. I'm no longer on, uh, whatever it's called these days, too.
posted by eschatfische at 3:46 PM on October 21, 2023
I wasn't talking about being so plugged in you had to wait until the end of day to get guidance - certainly, many of us had to do that whether we wanted to or not! - I was talking about the "news sobriety" approach described in the OP, describing approaches replacing current news with books, which would have been absurd IMO during COVID or weather catastrophes, where day by day or week by week guidance was actually beneficial.
I don't know. I finally quit Twitter
Yeah, my comment certainly wasn't talking about Twitter. Oof. I'm no longer on, uh, whatever it's called these days, too.
posted by eschatfische at 3:46 PM on October 21, 2023
I didn’t quit Twitter; Twitter quit me. Either way I am better off.
posted by thecaddy at 3:48 PM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by thecaddy at 3:48 PM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
I put myself on a news diet years ago for my mental health - I'd become more aware of exactly how curated this stuff was, and the agendas behind some of it, and how traumatising the constant flow of shit actually was to me. I stopped reading newspapers and my TV consumption got turned way wayyyyyy down to almost nothing. I still get news headlines from a variety of online sources but I expend a bit of effort to make sure that they're 1) as trustworthy sources as I can get, 2) quite disparate sources to try and cover any issues with point 1, and 3) more immediately local news.
And even so, as MagnificentVacuum points out - I still get random bullshit seeping into my life. I don't think you can be online in any form and NOT get it. But turning off the fire hydrant in my living room frees up the buckets to deal with drips that come through the ceiling.
posted by ninazer0 at 3:53 PM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
And even so, as MagnificentVacuum points out - I still get random bullshit seeping into my life. I don't think you can be online in any form and NOT get it. But turning off the fire hydrant in my living room frees up the buckets to deal with drips that come through the ceiling.
posted by ninazer0 at 3:53 PM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
My Democratic in-laws watch too much TV news, and all the reports of murders have pushed them steadily to the right, I think. That alone makes me think avoiding TV news is a good thing.
I was never a big news reader until 9/11. I guess that’s when my doomscrolling habit started. I don’t actually feel particularly well-informed. I think the “pick a lane” strategy articulated above has a lot to recommend it.
posted by eirias at 4:16 PM on October 21, 2023
I was never a big news reader until 9/11. I guess that’s when my doomscrolling habit started. I don’t actually feel particularly well-informed. I think the “pick a lane” strategy articulated above has a lot to recommend it.
posted by eirias at 4:16 PM on October 21, 2023
Until The Correspondent on the Continent died in August and our 110,000 message decade-long correspondence came to an end, he and I were among the best informed people in the Anglosphere. Despite the fact that neither one of us would willingly watch most news programs. But sure, unserious article on unserious website, I'm the problem because I think all three national nightly news broadcasts and nearly all major daily newspapers are bad for human beings and continuing to participate on Twitter makes one a collaborator.
posted by ob1quixote at 4:25 PM on October 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 4:25 PM on October 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Ten years ago I would have said that it's the responsibility of a citizen in a democracy to stay informed
Ten years ago, there were many more journalists.
Since wall street has expected newspapers to be, not just profitable, but as obscenely profitable as a "tech" company
And since Facebook 's lies about pivot to video, which turned good journalists into video producers,
"Being informed" is no longer related much at all to watching "the news".
It used to be that we would talk about how the poor, or communities of color were not represented by media, now it s nearly everyone.
I say this as someone who covers the environment and often helps journalists meet their deadlines on local and regionL environmental issues. There are just many fewer people reporting than there were ten years ago, due to the actions of Wall Street investors
posted by eustatic at 4:50 PM on October 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
Ten years ago, there were many more journalists.
Since wall street has expected newspapers to be, not just profitable, but as obscenely profitable as a "tech" company
And since Facebook 's lies about pivot to video, which turned good journalists into video producers,
"Being informed" is no longer related much at all to watching "the news".
It used to be that we would talk about how the poor, or communities of color were not represented by media, now it s nearly everyone.
I say this as someone who covers the environment and often helps journalists meet their deadlines on local and regionL environmental issues. There are just many fewer people reporting than there were ten years ago, due to the actions of Wall Street investors
posted by eustatic at 4:50 PM on October 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
It's very funny to hear him brag about getting his perspective of world events from books when you look at his reading list.
posted by Reyturner at 5:26 PM on October 21, 2023
posted by Reyturner at 5:26 PM on October 21, 2023
> Do you believe we have a civic responsibility to 'keep up' with The News?
Leaving the "responsibility" part for later -- If "keep up" means:
* Catching up with the news once in a while, as in monthly or weekly? Sure.
* Constant doomscrolling? Fuck no.
I've been thinking a lot about how I used to consume news back in the pre-www era. It's been a while, but I do remember that I definitely didn't read the news on daily basis. I seem to remember catching up by occasionally reading the Sunday paper. That was it. I had plenty enough going on in my immediate spheres to worry about to give much attention to world events. And life went on. The world was gonna do what it was gonna do whether I was caught-up-to-the-instant or not. The world didn't give a fuck about my opinions. And it still doesn't.
I think the whole news-as-entertainment trope kind of ruined things for a lot of people. It did more to introduce constant anxiety into people's lives than anything else. And if I remember correctly, it was CNN that originally pioneered it. I thank my lucky stars I never bothered to get cable TV back then.
As to whether we ultimately have a responsibility to keep up with news -- I'm on the fence about that, but if push came to shove, I'd probably come down on the side of "no".
posted by smcdow at 5:30 PM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Leaving the "responsibility" part for later -- If "keep up" means:
* Catching up with the news once in a while, as in monthly or weekly? Sure.
* Constant doomscrolling? Fuck no.
I've been thinking a lot about how I used to consume news back in the pre-www era. It's been a while, but I do remember that I definitely didn't read the news on daily basis. I seem to remember catching up by occasionally reading the Sunday paper. That was it. I had plenty enough going on in my immediate spheres to worry about to give much attention to world events. And life went on. The world was gonna do what it was gonna do whether I was caught-up-to-the-instant or not. The world didn't give a fuck about my opinions. And it still doesn't.
I think the whole news-as-entertainment trope kind of ruined things for a lot of people. It did more to introduce constant anxiety into people's lives than anything else. And if I remember correctly, it was CNN that originally pioneered it. I thank my lucky stars I never bothered to get cable TV back then.
As to whether we ultimately have a responsibility to keep up with news -- I'm on the fence about that, but if push came to shove, I'd probably come down on the side of "no".
posted by smcdow at 5:30 PM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
> I often think about the famous Lenin quote, “there are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen”.
i'm a simple man: i see that lenin quote, i favorite the comment it's in.
we're in the middle of a major upheaval in the media ecosystem, as major as the upheaval that occurred with the end of the print era and the start of the Internet era. whereas for the past 15 years or so we were accustomed to the model where journalists propped up by organizations like mother jones and so forth were able to make a living doing journalism in public on twitter et al, now most of those journalism jobs are gone and most of the public platforms have become openly hostile toward everything but a very specific type of toxic quasi-reportage that can be loosely summed up as "stuff elon musk likes." and by designating this stuff as "stuff elon musk likes" i'm not identifying elon musk as the taproot or whatever of the problem, because the stuff that elon musk likes is on the whole the stuff that elon musk's class likes. it's just that elon musk is the one dumb enough to make it blazingly, undeniably obvious what that stuff is.
much like our social lives have moved off of social media and are now taking place in private group chats and discords — we've all realized that it's stupid to put our lives on public platforms owned by private interests — so too news distribution must happen in private group chats and discords. the public sphere has become terminally enshittified and is no longer a useful place to get news nor participate in debate nor live. if we want to do those things now, we must learn to do them in private. person to person, group chat to group chat, cell to cell.
the age of publicity has ended. the age of conspiracy has begun.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 5:44 PM on October 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
i'm a simple man: i see that lenin quote, i favorite the comment it's in.
we're in the middle of a major upheaval in the media ecosystem, as major as the upheaval that occurred with the end of the print era and the start of the Internet era. whereas for the past 15 years or so we were accustomed to the model where journalists propped up by organizations like mother jones and so forth were able to make a living doing journalism in public on twitter et al, now most of those journalism jobs are gone and most of the public platforms have become openly hostile toward everything but a very specific type of toxic quasi-reportage that can be loosely summed up as "stuff elon musk likes." and by designating this stuff as "stuff elon musk likes" i'm not identifying elon musk as the taproot or whatever of the problem, because the stuff that elon musk likes is on the whole the stuff that elon musk's class likes. it's just that elon musk is the one dumb enough to make it blazingly, undeniably obvious what that stuff is.
much like our social lives have moved off of social media and are now taking place in private group chats and discords — we've all realized that it's stupid to put our lives on public platforms owned by private interests — so too news distribution must happen in private group chats and discords. the public sphere has become terminally enshittified and is no longer a useful place to get news nor participate in debate nor live. if we want to do those things now, we must learn to do them in private. person to person, group chat to group chat, cell to cell.
the age of publicity has ended. the age of conspiracy has begun.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 5:44 PM on October 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
Swift, as someone who also has deep roots in rural Texas, your description of your grandparents totally resonates with me.
posted by smcdow at 5:44 PM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by smcdow at 5:44 PM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
When I buy a newspaper - and I do, occasionally, because it's nice to have something to read while sitting in the park and eating breakfast - the first section I turn to is Letters to the Editor.
I do that because gauging the tone of the letters that a newspaper is willing to publish tells me who that paper sees as its core audience, which is pretty much everything I need to know about its editorial biases.
The news doesn't depress me. What truly does is the avid willingness of so many to accept what's presented on it - especially the TV variety - completely uncritically, and that's a source of stress that has nothing to do with whether or not I'm consuming news personally.
I wish I knew how to change the general public's ongoing aversion to critical thinking, but I don't. If there was more of it about, there would be much less bad news to report.
posted by flabdablet at 5:48 PM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
I do that because gauging the tone of the letters that a newspaper is willing to publish tells me who that paper sees as its core audience, which is pretty much everything I need to know about its editorial biases.
The news doesn't depress me. What truly does is the avid willingness of so many to accept what's presented on it - especially the TV variety - completely uncritically, and that's a source of stress that has nothing to do with whether or not I'm consuming news personally.
I wish I knew how to change the general public's ongoing aversion to critical thinking, but I don't. If there was more of it about, there would be much less bad news to report.
posted by flabdablet at 5:48 PM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
(and yes, just like you i too would prefer it if people used irc instead of discord, but discord is tolerable for now)
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 5:48 PM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 5:48 PM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
What bothers me most about declaring it unethical to avoid the news, is the suggestion that it'll somehow fix our world if we all do our civic duty and keep informed. Which is just a load of absolute bullshit. There are plenty folks who keep well aware of the news every day, even feel it's their civic duty to do so... and ended up supporting fascists for their effort.
The news isn't something that imparts empathy, wisdom or good judgement. Not even the most impartial, non profit driven news source could be expected to do so. Hell, religion can't even be relied upon to do take up that task.
posted by 2N2222 at 6:39 PM on October 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
The news isn't something that imparts empathy, wisdom or good judgement. Not even the most impartial, non profit driven news source could be expected to do so. Hell, religion can't even be relied upon to do take up that task.
posted by 2N2222 at 6:39 PM on October 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
We... also have news in Canada...?
It’s odd that several people above mention Twitter; I am not a twittering fellow, but Facebook has famously blockaded all news links for Canadian users.
Just this evening I was scrolling back through my Facebook feed looking for something and I saw a news-adjacent thing I posted last August. And then I saw it vanish.
Background: surrounding Toronto is a greenbelt of wetlands that is ecologically sensitive and which several successive governments have agreed to preserve. Opening it up is the third rail of provincial politics.
Current premier Doug Ford floated the trial balloon of giving some of the land to developers about five years ago. He saw a lot of resistance to the idea, so in 2018 he tweeted:
I posted this screenshot without comment in August. Today I was trying to find something I had posted last summer; as I say, I saw my post from then vanish and get replaced with a note that this could not be displayed on Facebook. Simultaneously a notification arrived that a post of mine had been removed for violating community standards on spam. (No further details — if I had not seen it flicker before my eyes, I’d have had no idea to what this referred to.)
I mentioned in a post this evening that it was passing strange that posting a social media communication from the head of the provincial government on government policy was deemed spam. Minutes later my original post from August reappeared and then my new one questioning Facebook’s moderation was disappeared. Ten minutes later it came back.
I can’t imagine why the trust from the user base is eroding.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:40 PM on October 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
It’s odd that several people above mention Twitter; I am not a twittering fellow, but Facebook has famously blockaded all news links for Canadian users.
Just this evening I was scrolling back through my Facebook feed looking for something and I saw a news-adjacent thing I posted last August. And then I saw it vanish.
Background: surrounding Toronto is a greenbelt of wetlands that is ecologically sensitive and which several successive governments have agreed to preserve. Opening it up is the third rail of provincial politics.
Current premier Doug Ford floated the trial balloon of giving some of the land to developers about five years ago. He saw a lot of resistance to the idea, so in 2018 he tweeted:
I was clear during the campaign. I listened to the people and we are not touching the Greenbelt. We will protect it and all its beauty.This summer he changed his mind and quietly arranged a multibillion-dollar deal with developers to let them build there. When news of it came to light, he spent months defending it. A couple of cabinet ministers and several appointees fell on their swords, and someone dug up the above tweet, with the note that it had been deleted by the tweet author. (DoFo eventually reversed the decision on allowing development.)
I posted this screenshot without comment in August. Today I was trying to find something I had posted last summer; as I say, I saw my post from then vanish and get replaced with a note that this could not be displayed on Facebook. Simultaneously a notification arrived that a post of mine had been removed for violating community standards on spam. (No further details — if I had not seen it flicker before my eyes, I’d have had no idea to what this referred to.)
I mentioned in a post this evening that it was passing strange that posting a social media communication from the head of the provincial government on government policy was deemed spam. Minutes later my original post from August reappeared and then my new one questioning Facebook’s moderation was disappeared. Ten minutes later it came back.
I can’t imagine why the trust from the user base is eroding.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:40 PM on October 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
I used to be much more informed about the news, when I used social media more, but at a certain point I had to ask myself what was it for? The 2016 US election was really the breaking point for me, everyone I knew, it seemed, was extremely stressed out about it but, being Canadian, there was nothing I could productively *do* with the daily firehose of information. I really took stock of what actually impacts my life, day to day, and what I can actually have a impact on. I think that is ofen the missing piece: what can I do with this information?
Now I mostly get my news from CBC Edmonton, and listen to a local news podcast that covers city hall. I am probably too well informed on the zoning by-laws.
I have noticed that the perpetually online (and especially perpetually on X/Twitter) people that I know IRL end up repeating the same talking points as each other, especially regarding local politics, which is sometimes surreal. It's a window into what the hive mind is thinking, which is often pretty detached from reality as I experience it.
posted by selenized at 6:41 PM on October 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Now I mostly get my news from CBC Edmonton, and listen to a local news podcast that covers city hall. I am probably too well informed on the zoning by-laws.
I have noticed that the perpetually online (and especially perpetually on X/Twitter) people that I know IRL end up repeating the same talking points as each other, especially regarding local politics, which is sometimes surreal. It's a window into what the hive mind is thinking, which is often pretty detached from reality as I experience it.
posted by selenized at 6:41 PM on October 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
On the one hand I'm against doomscrolling and the the outrage of the day. I often take several day or week breaks from "the news". On the other hand, when I go to the ballot box, I'm sure the Republicans would love it if I had no idea everything they say is a lie and that they're trying to overthrow the government any way they can. I'm sure Putin would love it if I didn't give a shit about what's happening in Ukraine. I'm sure Moms of whatever the fuck would prefer if I didn't know what they were trying to do to school boards. A few examples of hundreds big and small.
The main problem is 'news' (what's going on) is not the same as 'The News' (for-profit media). I'm not sure how to square those two things. But taking breaks is good.
posted by ctmf at 6:49 PM on October 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
The main problem is 'news' (what's going on) is not the same as 'The News' (for-profit media). I'm not sure how to square those two things. But taking breaks is good.
posted by ctmf at 6:49 PM on October 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
Maybe if there was a trustworthy, high-journalistic-quality "last week's news" I would read that. There is almost no "breaking" news that requires my immediate knowledge or action. Even if I need to know it, it can usually wait a few days until the real facts are known.
posted by ctmf at 7:04 PM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by ctmf at 7:04 PM on October 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
When someone calls me unethical for not watching or reading "The News" I have to laugh. I suspect we don't agree on where a trustworthy news source can be found. I find it unethical that people take in the biased pablum fed to us as "News".
posted by evilDoug at 7:18 PM on October 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by evilDoug at 7:18 PM on October 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
Maybe if there was a trustworthy, high-journalistic-quality "last week's news" I would read thatFor the past ten seasons, John Oliver’s comedy show has been a decent approximation of this.
posted by migurski at 7:57 PM on October 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
I'm just glad here is still here (and, of course, all y'all). Because, jesus, the news today
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 9:20 PM on October 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 9:20 PM on October 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Over the past year I've consciously chosen to focus almost solely on local news. I'll hear about big national/ world events via friends/ social media, and will consciously read up on them if I decide I want to know more about them. But putting my energy into learning about what's going on locally is empowering (I'm more likely going to be able to affect it) and connects me to my community in a more meaningful way. I know when my nearest city is considering improving renter protections, and when my town is collecting input on traffic calming measures, and the outcomes of police brutality investigations, and which companies are getting IDA funds; and instead of making me feel doomed it encourages me to advocate for the things I care about. I can actually go and talk to most of the people who show up in local news; I rarely actually make the effort to do that but I know I can.
posted by metasarah at 2:19 AM on October 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by metasarah at 2:19 AM on October 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
My wife uses absolutely no social media, and in fact has no Internet presence of any kind (unless you count the Steam account I set up for her that she has used exactly once, and then only to buy a thing).
She also consumes absolutely zero news directly and on purpose, and hardly any secondhand: I am under orders not to tell her about the latest bullshit unless it will directly affect her (e.g. Roe, or some local stuff).
She is therefore not what I would call "well-informed" but her broad liberal arts education allows her to remain what I would call a "responsible citizen."
The only downside of these policies for her, near as I can figure, is that occasionally she finds herself visibly left out of current events conversations in mixed company, but shit's so fucked up these days that (A) nobody at her work would be gauche enough to even broach those subjects and (B) even our friends/family won't dwell on such topics because we're trying to enjoy each other's company ferchrissakes.
Makes me wonder sometimes why I don't unplug too.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 4:59 AM on October 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
She also consumes absolutely zero news directly and on purpose, and hardly any secondhand: I am under orders not to tell her about the latest bullshit unless it will directly affect her (e.g. Roe, or some local stuff).
She is therefore not what I would call "well-informed" but her broad liberal arts education allows her to remain what I would call a "responsible citizen."
The only downside of these policies for her, near as I can figure, is that occasionally she finds herself visibly left out of current events conversations in mixed company, but shit's so fucked up these days that (A) nobody at her work would be gauche enough to even broach those subjects and (B) even our friends/family won't dwell on such topics because we're trying to enjoy each other's company ferchrissakes.
Makes me wonder sometimes why I don't unplug too.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 4:59 AM on October 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
more music, less news. think of music as news.
posted by graywyvern at 6:33 AM on October 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by graywyvern at 6:33 AM on October 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
It was just three years ago when ignoring the news could easily turn deadly for you. Beyond that though, when everything is so fucked up, I feel this weird duty to look right at it, as if that somehow affects it for the better, and even if that hurts me, because other people are hurting worse.
Just yesterday I saw a news report that kids these days are able to access war news in Ukraine and Gaza too easily and may be getting emotionally hurt, and my reaction was maybe let's rather focus on the kids in those war zones losing family members and/or their own lives instead. Let first world kids be their first generation to really see this in detail instead of being shielded, and maybe the next generation will actually have less of it.
How old was Greta Thunberg when she became active? What if she had been shielded?
posted by hypnogogue at 6:34 AM on October 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
Just yesterday I saw a news report that kids these days are able to access war news in Ukraine and Gaza too easily and may be getting emotionally hurt, and my reaction was maybe let's rather focus on the kids in those war zones losing family members and/or their own lives instead. Let first world kids be their first generation to really see this in detail instead of being shielded, and maybe the next generation will actually have less of it.
How old was Greta Thunberg when she became active? What if she had been shielded?
posted by hypnogogue at 6:34 AM on October 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
I prefer to engage with the news in small doses when I feel ready for it, and through certain filters. Certainly no notifications, and I don't know how my parents and in-laws stay sane with the news on TV all the time like they do.
My own particular dislike with news is the "gossip column" style thing about politics. "OMG did you hear what (right-wing douchebag) said? It was a bunch of right-wing douchebaggery!" What passes for "left-ish" in the US media is just as much an outrage machine as the Fox/Breitbart/etc. end of things.
posted by Foosnark at 6:36 AM on October 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
My own particular dislike with news is the "gossip column" style thing about politics. "OMG did you hear what (right-wing douchebag) said? It was a bunch of right-wing douchebaggery!" What passes for "left-ish" in the US media is just as much an outrage machine as the Fox/Breitbart/etc. end of things.
posted by Foosnark at 6:36 AM on October 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
I remember when you had to actively go out and find out things, whether it was local politics, what was going on in other countries, or pretty much anything else. You had to read books, newspapers, magazines, go to the library reference desk, watch TV news, etc. Now we're awash in "information" to the point it's damaging our mental health. You can't help but think that "information at our (literal) fingertips" isn't the panacea it was supposed to be. We want the proverbial Middle Way, but is there one? Or is the price of awareness only payable by anxiety and depression?
posted by tommasz at 6:44 AM on October 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by tommasz at 6:44 AM on October 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have absolutely unplugged in the past year or so, and I do not regret it one bit. We are in a bit of an unusual living situation (living outside the US at the moment and likely will continue to do so for at least the next couple of years) which has admittedly made it much easier to avoid the worst of the US news cycle. My current news diet is mostly just skimming local/EU news once a day and maybe turning on TV news when I cook dinner (helps me practice my Swedish which is a bonus) and that's about it. Being too busy at work to doom-scroll really helps as well.
My own particular dislike with news is the "gossip column" style thing about politics. "OMG did you hear what (right-wing douchebag) said? It was a bunch of right-wing douchebaggery!" What passes for "left-ish" in the US media is just as much an outrage machine as the Fox/Breitbart/etc. end of things.
BINGO. This was actually the biggest catalyst for me, I want to be informed but i was sick of the gossipy crap - that's not news, that's clickbait and both sides absolutely engage in it. It desn't help that one of my wife's closest friends is probably the biggest doom-scroller I've ever met - literally the ONLY thing she's capable of talking about for years now is Trump this, Trump that, or how horrible SCOTUS/GOP/whatever is. Which I totally get and is absolutely important. But if that is literally the only you're capable of discussing with other people, to the point where you have no other interests in life, then you might be overdoing it a bit.
posted by photo guy at 8:03 AM on October 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
My own particular dislike with news is the "gossip column" style thing about politics. "OMG did you hear what (right-wing douchebag) said? It was a bunch of right-wing douchebaggery!" What passes for "left-ish" in the US media is just as much an outrage machine as the Fox/Breitbart/etc. end of things.
BINGO. This was actually the biggest catalyst for me, I want to be informed but i was sick of the gossipy crap - that's not news, that's clickbait and both sides absolutely engage in it. It desn't help that one of my wife's closest friends is probably the biggest doom-scroller I've ever met - literally the ONLY thing she's capable of talking about for years now is Trump this, Trump that, or how horrible SCOTUS/GOP/whatever is. Which I totally get and is absolutely important. But if that is literally the only you're capable of discussing with other people, to the point where you have no other interests in life, then you might be overdoing it a bit.
posted by photo guy at 8:03 AM on October 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
I think Twitter still work fine. I follow many scientists and activists who discuss environmental concerns, like climate & ecological collapse, as well as the info sec privacy crowd, so I basically hear most everything important.
I do need to mute the right keywords of course: Trump, Musk, Israel, Gaza, Palestine, Bitcoin, BTC, Ethereum, ETH. Arguably you should mute some states like California too. I like the Houthi btw, like who could no like people who blow up Saudi refineries?
Anyways if you mute the pointless stupidity then Twitter becomes usable. At least until they pull a couch surfing.
posted by jeffburdges at 9:18 AM on October 22, 2023
I do need to mute the right keywords of course: Trump, Musk, Israel, Gaza, Palestine, Bitcoin, BTC, Ethereum, ETH. Arguably you should mute some states like California too. I like the Houthi btw, like who could no like people who blow up Saudi refineries?
Anyways if you mute the pointless stupidity then Twitter becomes usable. At least until they pull a couch surfing.
posted by jeffburdges at 9:18 AM on October 22, 2023
more music, less news. think of music as news.
There's a quote from Bob Dylan that I can't find, where he says traditional folk songs were just like the news for him when he first started out, that he felt the great calamities of a hundred years ago as if they were happening right now.
posted by swift at 10:00 AM on October 22, 2023
There's a quote from Bob Dylan that I can't find, where he says traditional folk songs were just like the news for him when he first started out, that he felt the great calamities of a hundred years ago as if they were happening right now.
posted by swift at 10:00 AM on October 22, 2023
Lots of interesting stuff in here…
I get the impression that this “social media” stuff has gotten so ubiquitous that it has become difficult to see the forest for the trees. Better than 20 years ago i ran into a description of the basics of Situationist thought and that has helped me avoid being so deeply drawn into this stuff that I lose myself in it (which I am very prone to do). I have pretty much avoided a lot of commercial media since then, or altered its display whenever possible.
From the Wikipedia article:
Essential to situationist theory was the concept of the spectacle, a unified critique of advanced capitalism of which a primary concern was the progressively increasing tendency towards the expression and mediation of social relations through images.[2] The situationists believed that the shift from individual expression through directly lived experiences, or the first-hand fulfillment of authentic desires, to individual expression by proxy through the exchange or consumption of commodities, or passive second-hand alienation, inflicted significant and far-reaching damage to the quality of human life for both individuals and society.[1] Another important concept of situationist theory was the primary means of counteracting the spectacle; the construction of situations, moments of life deliberately constructed for the purpose of reawakening and pursuing authentic desires, experiencing the feeling of life and adventure, and the liberation of everyday life.[1][3]
I particularly like that last sentence.
I do not have a TV in what was once the “traditional” sense. I watch movies and not much else. But visual media is not the same as it once was, with the advent of Web3 or whatever it is. It is broader and deeper in impact because you can talk back to it, and to the other consumers.
I had a Facebook for a short while. I gave it up right after the pandemic started because what I hoped was a place where you could just meet some folks of like mind and have conversations with them turned into this thing where other people would wander in and want to pick an argument. It reminded me of things I had seen before on other forums. I saw sites blow up and die because of trolling and just incredibly nasty manners (used to be on Kuro5hin back in the day) and so just left. It is one thing to be a little snarky now and then, entirely another to be just plain up shit stirring cruel and entirely dismissive of basic humanity.
I still have a LinkedIn, and still wonder why. I don’t do much with it. Sure do not interact with the comments and postings, as many of those come from the same kind of shit stirring motives that Facebook has.
What I want to do is to be aware without being obsessed. That is hard to do because the platforms want you to be obsessed. But in that facet it really is not so much different from what TV news has been, with the difference of it being interactive.
With all the dangerous stuff out there one really ought to know about it does not seem prudent to me to just not look at anything. Ignorance is not necessarily bliss, or freedom. I learned to look at motives. Why does something or someone want me to look at it? Fortunately the profit motives for the modern web seem to be pretty obvious now.
I have been limiting the capitalist aspects of what I read online for some time now. I block ads aggressively, and would rather pay a subscription than view ads. Some publications are thoroughly corrupted with clickbait and articles written to deploy spectacular points of view yet have some things I want to know about but I have deep qualms about compensating their business in any way. Those get a paywall blocker, and then I am very careful what to look at. The way I have come to see media in general has made it easier to spot things that will upset my equilibrium in a disproportionate way.
There’s lots of stuff that probably needs to be known about, from a perspective that does not inflate or amplify, or tend to cause turmoil. Some things are going to be upsetting; sometimes “if you’re not outraged then you're not paying attention”. It is also good to know what motives drive things that others talk about now and then. I work in mental health and it seems pretty essential sometimes to know what the hell drives upset people who seek services. What is real and what is just a symptom? And symptoms often turn out to be driven by situations, instead of just “well, he went a little funny in the head”. Something happened to the person I am working with, and I want to have some idea of what those situations are.
The subject of media seems pretty trivial, but this stuff sits just under the surface of nearly every major issue of our time. The fellow in the last link is either sufficiently insulated from those issues or is a driver of them (I have learned to be wary of “tech CEOs”). He can act like he is some sort of digital monk. It’s a little harder for the rest of us.
posted by cybrcamper at 11:18 AM on October 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
I get the impression that this “social media” stuff has gotten so ubiquitous that it has become difficult to see the forest for the trees. Better than 20 years ago i ran into a description of the basics of Situationist thought and that has helped me avoid being so deeply drawn into this stuff that I lose myself in it (which I am very prone to do). I have pretty much avoided a lot of commercial media since then, or altered its display whenever possible.
From the Wikipedia article:
Essential to situationist theory was the concept of the spectacle, a unified critique of advanced capitalism of which a primary concern was the progressively increasing tendency towards the expression and mediation of social relations through images.[2] The situationists believed that the shift from individual expression through directly lived experiences, or the first-hand fulfillment of authentic desires, to individual expression by proxy through the exchange or consumption of commodities, or passive second-hand alienation, inflicted significant and far-reaching damage to the quality of human life for both individuals and society.[1] Another important concept of situationist theory was the primary means of counteracting the spectacle; the construction of situations, moments of life deliberately constructed for the purpose of reawakening and pursuing authentic desires, experiencing the feeling of life and adventure, and the liberation of everyday life.[1][3]
I particularly like that last sentence.
I do not have a TV in what was once the “traditional” sense. I watch movies and not much else. But visual media is not the same as it once was, with the advent of Web3 or whatever it is. It is broader and deeper in impact because you can talk back to it, and to the other consumers.
I had a Facebook for a short while. I gave it up right after the pandemic started because what I hoped was a place where you could just meet some folks of like mind and have conversations with them turned into this thing where other people would wander in and want to pick an argument. It reminded me of things I had seen before on other forums. I saw sites blow up and die because of trolling and just incredibly nasty manners (used to be on Kuro5hin back in the day) and so just left. It is one thing to be a little snarky now and then, entirely another to be just plain up shit stirring cruel and entirely dismissive of basic humanity.
I still have a LinkedIn, and still wonder why. I don’t do much with it. Sure do not interact with the comments and postings, as many of those come from the same kind of shit stirring motives that Facebook has.
What I want to do is to be aware without being obsessed. That is hard to do because the platforms want you to be obsessed. But in that facet it really is not so much different from what TV news has been, with the difference of it being interactive.
With all the dangerous stuff out there one really ought to know about it does not seem prudent to me to just not look at anything. Ignorance is not necessarily bliss, or freedom. I learned to look at motives. Why does something or someone want me to look at it? Fortunately the profit motives for the modern web seem to be pretty obvious now.
I have been limiting the capitalist aspects of what I read online for some time now. I block ads aggressively, and would rather pay a subscription than view ads. Some publications are thoroughly corrupted with clickbait and articles written to deploy spectacular points of view yet have some things I want to know about but I have deep qualms about compensating their business in any way. Those get a paywall blocker, and then I am very careful what to look at. The way I have come to see media in general has made it easier to spot things that will upset my equilibrium in a disproportionate way.
There’s lots of stuff that probably needs to be known about, from a perspective that does not inflate or amplify, or tend to cause turmoil. Some things are going to be upsetting; sometimes “if you’re not outraged then you're not paying attention”. It is also good to know what motives drive things that others talk about now and then. I work in mental health and it seems pretty essential sometimes to know what the hell drives upset people who seek services. What is real and what is just a symptom? And symptoms often turn out to be driven by situations, instead of just “well, he went a little funny in the head”. Something happened to the person I am working with, and I want to have some idea of what those situations are.
The subject of media seems pretty trivial, but this stuff sits just under the surface of nearly every major issue of our time. The fellow in the last link is either sufficiently insulated from those issues or is a driver of them (I have learned to be wary of “tech CEOs”). He can act like he is some sort of digital monk. It’s a little harder for the rest of us.
posted by cybrcamper at 11:18 AM on October 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
The problem goes away if we limit the definition of news to *news*, and exclude opinion, punditry, lay commentary, "takes", etc. I know there's no super clear dividing line, believe me, I do know that. But it works as a guideline. In practice for me this looks like listening to a 15 minute headline roundups every morning from NPR, BBC, or Al Jazeera (in turns) on Spotify. That's it. I also read longform articles and books if I want to dig into a topic, but that's not news either, it's just optional learning.
I do not kid myself that my social media habit has anything at all to do with my obligation to be an informed citizen. To use an almost archaic word, all this is just infotainment. An information-like substance, similar to food like substances that do not nourish. I do it because I have the information equivalent of a sweet tooth.
posted by MiraK at 1:06 PM on October 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
I do not kid myself that my social media habit has anything at all to do with my obligation to be an informed citizen. To use an almost archaic word, all this is just infotainment. An information-like substance, similar to food like substances that do not nourish. I do it because I have the information equivalent of a sweet tooth.
posted by MiraK at 1:06 PM on October 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
I think it's possible to be across issues without being up-to-the-minute with new developments. In fact it's often easier. Most of what's offered as "news" isn't new at all, merely the latest instance of the same old same old.
I'll pay attention to a news outlet that makes a serious case that a tiny coterie of blinkered old men are no longer casually juggling billions of lives for their own entertainment while displaying total unawareness of their own comprehensive incompetence coupled with an outsized self-assessment of their own worth. But unless and until that happens, really, what's the point?
posted by flabdablet at 5:46 PM on October 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'll pay attention to a news outlet that makes a serious case that a tiny coterie of blinkered old men are no longer casually juggling billions of lives for their own entertainment while displaying total unawareness of their own comprehensive incompetence coupled with an outsized self-assessment of their own worth. But unless and until that happens, really, what's the point?
posted by flabdablet at 5:46 PM on October 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
"can i use knowledge of news from this lane to make conversations on a dying website from the late 1900s more weird?"
A dying website from the late 1900s. Oh my goodness, that was a kick in the feels.
posted by mecran01 at 6:31 PM on October 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
A dying website from the late 1900s. Oh my goodness, that was a kick in the feels.
posted by mecran01 at 6:31 PM on October 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think there is a balance that can be had, pretty easily, by mostly avoiding social media and not being Extremely OnlineTM.
My mental health increased for the better when I mostly got off Twitter and Facebook. I also heavily reduced the number of political podcasts I listen to (actually, COVID mostly killed my podcast-listening, since it turns out it's a thing I can mostly only do if I'm otherwise occupied: such as during my morning commute which didn't exist during the long stretch of mandatory work-from-home orders. I cannot simply sit in a chair and listen to podcasts; my ADHD refuses to allow it).
I think I'm reasonably informed by taking a quick scan of the news and listening to CBC radio. If I strongly feel the need to discuss the zeitgeist or whatever, I drop a link in a small group chat I have with some friends, rather than rage-posting to social media. It's probably equally echo-chambery, but at least we tend to have actual conversations instead of just typing talking points in all caps at each other.
posted by asnider at 10:54 AM on October 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
My mental health increased for the better when I mostly got off Twitter and Facebook. I also heavily reduced the number of political podcasts I listen to (actually, COVID mostly killed my podcast-listening, since it turns out it's a thing I can mostly only do if I'm otherwise occupied: such as during my morning commute which didn't exist during the long stretch of mandatory work-from-home orders. I cannot simply sit in a chair and listen to podcasts; my ADHD refuses to allow it).
I think I'm reasonably informed by taking a quick scan of the news and listening to CBC radio. If I strongly feel the need to discuss the zeitgeist or whatever, I drop a link in a small group chat I have with some friends, rather than rage-posting to social media. It's probably equally echo-chambery, but at least we tend to have actual conversations instead of just typing talking points in all caps at each other.
posted by asnider at 10:54 AM on October 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
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- pick a lane. use whatever metric you deem best to determine your lane. follow news from that lane, defer to people you trust on everything outside that lane.
- pick a lane. use whatever metric you deem best to determine your lane but with the additional constraint that you must be yourself personally doing a meaningful amount of work toward influencing what happens in that lane. ideally work that involves actual labor from you to some extent, because we're monkeys and monkeys attach more to stuff they've put their own personal funny little monkey hands on, but i guess giving money counts too. follow news from that lane, defer to people you trust on everything outside that lane.
- pick a lane. the metric you use to pick your lane is "is this thing funny?" this sanity-preservation strategy just maybe might be why i can tell you vastly more about how stanford and mit's finest cryptodoofuses have just spent two weeks beclowning themselves in court hearings than i can tell you about what's happening in the middle east right now. follow news from your lane, which should be easy because if you've picked the right lane the news from it is hilarious, defer to people you trust on everything outside that lane.
- pick a lane.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:33 AM on October 21, 2023 [17 favorites]