"I would have worked at Bandcamp until I retired, happily"
November 21, 2023 11:54 PM Subscribe
Yeah, this is very depressing. The speculation by former Bandcamp employees that Epic was merely acquired for the offshoot chance to have leverage against Google in a court case...
posted by bigendian at 1:14 AM on November 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by bigendian at 1:14 AM on November 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Tim Sweeney is a parasite whose goal in life appears to be ruining good things. There, I said it.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:35 AM on November 22, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:35 AM on November 22, 2023 [13 favorites]
Aw, fuck it. Bandcamp has been my primary source for new music for a hell of a long time now.
That said, the possibility of exactly this kind of thing is why I have always downloaded an archival FLAC copy of everything I bought through them instead of relying solely on their otherwise excellent buy-once-play-anywhere cloud offering.
posted by flabdablet at 4:07 AM on November 22, 2023 [12 favorites]
That said, the possibility of exactly this kind of thing is why I have always downloaded an archival FLAC copy of everything I bought through them instead of relying solely on their otherwise excellent buy-once-play-anywhere cloud offering.
posted by flabdablet at 4:07 AM on November 22, 2023 [12 favorites]
> Tim Sweeney is a parasite whose goal in life appears to be ruining good things. There, I said it.
yeah he's been coasting on all that goodwill from zzt for decades
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 4:11 AM on November 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
yeah he's been coasting on all that goodwill from zzt for decades
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 4:11 AM on November 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
This is grim, and what's most annoying is I feel like unfortunately I now have to give money to the parasites who swooped on Bandcamp in order to support creators I like. BC is still, for now, I think, the best option for buying digital music with minimal screwing over of artists and small labels. As in, more money goes to the actual creators via BC still than via any other channel (other than where artists sell via their own sites, obvs, or at gigs).
I suppose I can restrict all my purchases to BC Fridays, for as long as those last, anyway, oh well...
posted by tomsk at 4:48 AM on November 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
I suppose I can restrict all my purchases to BC Fridays, for as long as those last, anyway, oh well...
posted by tomsk at 4:48 AM on November 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
I want to do more Bandcamping, but at least here in Canada it's hard when I look at apples-to-apples pricing to buy albums digitally.
I've looked at several albums recently; including Blanck Mass' World Eater, which is $9 USD or $12.50 CAD at current exchange rates. On iTunes, in Canada, it's $9 CAD. Aesop Rock's Integrated Tech Solutions is $10 USD / $14 CAD, but $11 CAD on iTunes. Mountain Goats' Jenny from Thebes, $8 USD / $11 CAD vs. $10 CAD on iTunes.
I love music, I buy a lot of music, and that adds up quickly. I'm all in on supporting artists, but I'd rather support more artists by buying more music than pay more per album and support fewer artists -- maybe this is not the optimally ethical thing to do, but money is tight here as it is everywhere these days.
posted by Shepherd at 4:57 AM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
I've looked at several albums recently; including Blanck Mass' World Eater, which is $9 USD or $12.50 CAD at current exchange rates. On iTunes, in Canada, it's $9 CAD. Aesop Rock's Integrated Tech Solutions is $10 USD / $14 CAD, but $11 CAD on iTunes. Mountain Goats' Jenny from Thebes, $8 USD / $11 CAD vs. $10 CAD on iTunes.
I love music, I buy a lot of music, and that adds up quickly. I'm all in on supporting artists, but I'd rather support more artists by buying more music than pay more per album and support fewer artists -- maybe this is not the optimally ethical thing to do, but money is tight here as it is everywhere these days.
posted by Shepherd at 4:57 AM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
As long time music nerd, is it just me, or we experiencing an accelerating enshittification of music streaming services? I ditched my CD player some years ago, but am now considering re-purchasing one and going back to owning physical copies of my music. I have always had a soft spot for Bandcamp, since I like to see artists get the rewards rather than the hedgelords - and hope that it can at least continue in some form as the best go-to for independent music.
posted by aeshnid at 5:02 AM on November 22, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by aeshnid at 5:02 AM on November 22, 2023 [12 favorites]
[are] we experiencing an accelerating enshittification of music streaming services?
Yes.
artists get the rewards rather than the hedgelords
That is why. Predatory commerce is just as much about destroying fairer sales models to prevent the masses from getting accustomed to them, as it is about fighting to hoover up every viable resource in sight.
posted by CynicalKnight at 5:20 AM on November 22, 2023 [18 favorites]
Yes.
artists get the rewards rather than the hedgelords
That is why. Predatory commerce is just as much about destroying fairer sales models to prevent the masses from getting accustomed to them, as it is about fighting to hoover up every viable resource in sight.
posted by CynicalKnight at 5:20 AM on November 22, 2023 [18 favorites]
As a buck-toothed Limey I am constantly amazed by the kind of atrocities that appear to be legal under American employment law.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 5:25 AM on November 22, 2023 [28 favorites]
posted by Cardinal Fang at 5:25 AM on November 22, 2023 [28 favorites]
I had fallen behind on downloading my purchases because I'm trying to figure out an issue with my music library, but I went on a spree and caught up after the sale was announced, so I'm glad I don't have to put that on my holiday weekend to-do list. This is sad and frustrating. I found a lot of interesting music on Bandcamp.
I have not gone hardcore back to buying CDs but I will if I have to. Renting access to my music while musicians get screwed over on streams is not a model I'm interested in engaging with.
posted by EvaDestruction at 5:54 AM on November 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
I have not gone hardcore back to buying CDs but I will if I have to. Renting access to my music while musicians get screwed over on streams is not a model I'm interested in engaging with.
posted by EvaDestruction at 5:54 AM on November 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
This news about BMI feels like it belongs in the enshittification discussion.
posted by jstncwlcx at 5:55 AM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by jstncwlcx at 5:55 AM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
... experiencing an accelerating enshittification of music streaming services? I ditched my CD player some years ago, but am now considering re-purchasing one and going back to owning physical copies of my music.
I never entirely abandoned CDs and LPs, and have recently - after years of leaning pretty heavily on digital - started buying more. Two weeks ago, I wanted to check out an album I was unfamiliar with [Bill Fay's "Time of the Last Persecution"], so tried to listen to it via YouTube Music. YTM used to be OK, but it now (at least for me here in the US) injects 1 or 2 shrill, stupid ads before every single track in an LP unless I'm a subscriber, which would cost me $10.99 a month (ditto for Spotify and Apple Music - iHeart, the other option, I could have for a buck less). The CD cost $13 with shipping. I listened to one track via YTM, decided it was worth the gamble, and ordered the physical copy. Turns out it's great, and I can now enjoy it without being loudly shilled by Chick-fil-a and Verizon every 3 minutes.
posted by ryanshepard at 6:20 AM on November 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
I never entirely abandoned CDs and LPs, and have recently - after years of leaning pretty heavily on digital - started buying more. Two weeks ago, I wanted to check out an album I was unfamiliar with [Bill Fay's "Time of the Last Persecution"], so tried to listen to it via YouTube Music. YTM used to be OK, but it now (at least for me here in the US) injects 1 or 2 shrill, stupid ads before every single track in an LP unless I'm a subscriber, which would cost me $10.99 a month (ditto for Spotify and Apple Music - iHeart, the other option, I could have for a buck less). The CD cost $13 with shipping. I listened to one track via YTM, decided it was worth the gamble, and ordered the physical copy. Turns out it's great, and I can now enjoy it without being loudly shilled by Chick-fil-a and Verizon every 3 minutes.
posted by ryanshepard at 6:20 AM on November 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
Wow, I had no idea this was happening so thanks for sharing. It's good to read those voices from Deerhoof and The Mountain Goats.
As a buck-toothed Limey I am constantly amazed by the kind of atrocities that appear to be legal under American employment law.
Ooh, mate... as a foreiner working on a UK skilled worker visa, I encourage you to reassess for whom and under what conditions employment law is sensible on these islands. Like when people wax poetic about NHS, I think that's more of a rosy memory than a reflection of the status quo. No state has a monopoly on bad practices.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 6:37 AM on November 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
As a buck-toothed Limey I am constantly amazed by the kind of atrocities that appear to be legal under American employment law.
Ooh, mate... as a foreiner working on a UK skilled worker visa, I encourage you to reassess for whom and under what conditions employment law is sensible on these islands. Like when people wax poetic about NHS, I think that's more of a rosy memory than a reflection of the status quo. No state has a monopoly on bad practices.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 6:37 AM on November 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
Did someone say.... musician co-op...?
posted by amtho at 7:10 AM on November 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by amtho at 7:10 AM on November 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
I don’t see what the big deal is, I can make money with my music on streaming services. I make micro-pennies there! Provided I get at least 1000 streams a month! Micro!!
posted by misterpatrick at 8:03 AM on November 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by misterpatrick at 8:03 AM on November 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
... experiencing an accelerating enshittification of music streaming services?
Hard to imagine streaming services being enshittified - they've been shitty since the beginning, a form of quantity-over-quality music delivery that works absolutely against any kind of serious listening and engagement.
posted by remembrancer at 8:10 AM on November 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
Hard to imagine streaming services being enshittified - they've been shitty since the beginning, a form of quantity-over-quality music delivery that works absolutely against any kind of serious listening and engagement.
posted by remembrancer at 8:10 AM on November 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
the streaming services are what they give music lovers who've been sent to the medium place
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 8:35 AM on November 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 8:35 AM on November 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
As long time music nerd, is it just me, or we experiencing an accelerating enshittification of music streaming services?
I helped build a digital music sales service that was at times only second to iTunes. Even when we were kicking ass (we sold 25% of the first week digital sales world wide of Arcade Fire’s Reflektor album, for instance) the financial numbers stopped making sense. Then it became clear the era was over and money would no longer be there, and our investors pulled the plug. That was late 2013 to early 2014.
Bandcamp’s entire existence was in a world where their sales model was unsustainable.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 8:36 AM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
I helped build a digital music sales service that was at times only second to iTunes. Even when we were kicking ass (we sold 25% of the first week digital sales world wide of Arcade Fire’s Reflektor album, for instance) the financial numbers stopped making sense. Then it became clear the era was over and money would no longer be there, and our investors pulled the plug. That was late 2013 to early 2014.
Bandcamp’s entire existence was in a world where their sales model was unsustainable.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 8:36 AM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Bandcamp has claimed to have been profitable since 2012 so I doubt that.
posted by tiny frying pan at 8:40 AM on November 22, 2023 [18 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 8:40 AM on November 22, 2023 [18 favorites]
Tangentially, does anyone know how Beatport fairs in terms of artist compensation?
It seems like a big site doing a similar thing, but I never hear it in the same breath as Bandcamp so always assumed it just wasn’t as pleasant.
posted by TangoCharlie at 8:43 AM on November 22, 2023
It seems like a big site doing a similar thing, but I never hear it in the same breath as Bandcamp so always assumed it just wasn’t as pleasant.
posted by TangoCharlie at 8:43 AM on November 22, 2023
Bandcamp has claimed to have been profitable since 2012 so I doubt that.
They are also the online storefront for merch and physical media for tons of independent bands, they don’t just sell files.
posted by atoxyl at 9:09 AM on November 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
They are also the online storefront for merch and physical media for tons of independent bands, they don’t just sell files.
posted by atoxyl at 9:09 AM on November 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
Pondering Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme's comment about working on something "second only to iTunes" in 2013/14 has me wondering what Bandcamp was doing to stay profitable that an iTunes competitor wasn't, and my biggest guess is "not making deals that exchange huge chunks of their profits for the ability to sell major-label stuff".
Which this article says was something Epic was trying to change, so maybe in the world where Epic still owns Bandcamp, we are currently seeing an announcement that they're going to start selling stuff from major labels, followed shortly by a musician posting about the huge rise in Bandcamp's cut that brings the expected payouts for anyone *but* those super-star major label artists down to about zero, and enshittification is happening there too.
(Or maybe we are not because maybe that world's Bandcamp is a union shop that has managed to put "keep the artists' interests in mind too" in the company's bylaws, and they could not come to an agreement with the major labels that did not result in having to rob every small-label/self-pub musician already on the site so they could pay what the labels want...)
I'm gonna miss Bandcamp, if I'm going to buy someone's music then it's still the first place I check. If it's electronic and not on there then Bleep is usually my second stop, and then it's a shrug and off to the Fucking Apple Music Store with a 50% chance of some swearing when I end up on the artist's page on the Fucking Apple Music Subscription Site, which has *no way to get to the version where you can just pay for a download* save for starting from the top of the store.
posted by egypturnash at 9:13 AM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Which this article says was something Epic was trying to change, so maybe in the world where Epic still owns Bandcamp, we are currently seeing an announcement that they're going to start selling stuff from major labels, followed shortly by a musician posting about the huge rise in Bandcamp's cut that brings the expected payouts for anyone *but* those super-star major label artists down to about zero, and enshittification is happening there too.
(Or maybe we are not because maybe that world's Bandcamp is a union shop that has managed to put "keep the artists' interests in mind too" in the company's bylaws, and they could not come to an agreement with the major labels that did not result in having to rob every small-label/self-pub musician already on the site so they could pay what the labels want...)
I'm gonna miss Bandcamp, if I'm going to buy someone's music then it's still the first place I check. If it's electronic and not on there then Bleep is usually my second stop, and then it's a shrug and off to the Fucking Apple Music Store with a 50% chance of some swearing when I end up on the artist's page on the Fucking Apple Music Subscription Site, which has *no way to get to the version where you can just pay for a download* save for starting from the top of the store.
posted by egypturnash at 9:13 AM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
At that point, just start pirating the music and send the artists anonymous donations.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 9:17 AM on November 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by I-Write-Essays at 9:17 AM on November 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
Actually reading that article, things sound a bit better than I expected given other reporting (but still quite bad). Until there is some sort of viable alternative that actually scales down to the individual artist level, I think it makes sense to keep buying music on Bandcamp as it is still an efficient way to give money to artists. As far as I am aware the only real viable alternatives to Bandcamp are either running your own site (which is very hard to do these days for legal/payment reasons), or working with a 3rd party licensing group or major label that handles selling it to one of the big companies like Apple/Spotify. Beatport does seem to be a reasonable alternative for electronic music and I wonder if more artists will focus there (while still selling on bandcamp)
Bandcamp working at half strength is probably still better for the indie music industry than any of the current alternatives.
posted by JZig at 9:36 AM on November 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
Bandcamp working at half strength is probably still better for the indie music industry than any of the current alternatives.
posted by JZig at 9:36 AM on November 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
What can we do to get newly minted billionaire Taylor Swift to buy Bandcamp? I’m sure Phoebe and Matt can help her run it…
posted by pxe2000 at 10:08 AM on November 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by pxe2000 at 10:08 AM on November 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
No to go off topic, but thank you for pointing me in the direction of Aftermath! I was missing a quality video games and entertainment news website.
posted by exolstice at 10:10 AM on November 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by exolstice at 10:10 AM on November 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Man, Bandcamp is the last place on the internet where a musician can get a fair shake. Pay has gotten so bad everywhere that the only point of even touring is to sell t-shirts, and I'm sure someone has heir eye on the merch too, if they can just find a way to take that away from us.
Bandcamp has been great to me. I've sold over $800-worth of free jazz, by a band that has played a total of 3 gigs to a total of 10 people at each, and I've had sales in England, France, Canada, Russia, Kenya and Australia. We have like 5 ardent fans that have bought everything I've put up there. There's no other way we would have ever reached those people.
I hope that they can hang in there/get acquired by someone who cares.
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:31 AM on November 22, 2023 [24 favorites]
Bandcamp has been great to me. I've sold over $800-worth of free jazz, by a band that has played a total of 3 gigs to a total of 10 people at each, and I've had sales in England, France, Canada, Russia, Kenya and Australia. We have like 5 ardent fans that have bought everything I've put up there. There's no other way we would have ever reached those people.
I hope that they can hang in there/get acquired by someone who cares.
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:31 AM on November 22, 2023 [24 favorites]
I am a very stupid person. What would it take to create a viable, good, Bandcamp alternative?
posted by Hermione Dies at 10:41 AM on November 22, 2023
posted by Hermione Dies at 10:41 AM on November 22, 2023
I mean, not personally.
posted by Hermione Dies at 10:42 AM on November 22, 2023
posted by Hermione Dies at 10:42 AM on November 22, 2023
100 billion dollars.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 10:43 AM on November 22, 2023
posted by I-Write-Essays at 10:43 AM on November 22, 2023
Pondering Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme's comment about working on something "second only to iTunes" in 2013/14 has me wondering what Bandcamp was doing to stay profitable that an iTunes competitor wasn't, and my biggest guess is "not making deals that exchange huge chunks of their profits for the ability to sell major-label stuff".
To go back to mid-00s Wired terminology for a minute, they are the core online platform for “true fan” purchases from “long tail” bands. Music, merch, but more importantly music-as-merch. So yes, I think they serve a different sort of market than Big Company Music Store.
posted by atoxyl at 10:46 AM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
To go back to mid-00s Wired terminology for a minute, they are the core online platform for “true fan” purchases from “long tail” bands. Music, merch, but more importantly music-as-merch. So yes, I think they serve a different sort of market than Big Company Music Store.
posted by atoxyl at 10:46 AM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Of course Big Company Music Stores in 2013-2014 saw that piddly stuff as not worth their while, probably correctly in their terms, compared to leaning into streaming - which left it to Bandcamp.
posted by atoxyl at 10:52 AM on November 22, 2023
posted by atoxyl at 10:52 AM on November 22, 2023
One thing about Bandcamp, along with the digitial sales and working as a physical media storefront, is that it isn't only used by small musicians or whatnot. Peter Gabriel has released all the tracks from his new album there.
On some level it does seem that the best solution for a company like Bandcamp when they're starting up is to never allow themselves to be bought out if they want the service they started to survive much longer.
posted by hippybear at 10:58 AM on November 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
On some level it does seem that the best solution for a company like Bandcamp when they're starting up is to never allow themselves to be bought out if they want the service they started to survive much longer.
posted by hippybear at 10:58 AM on November 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
We need to go back to 2007-2011 before Spotify (and iphone and "The Stream" and FB took over) and when last.fm ruled and we could scrobble to our hearts content, find friends, share music and do it more organically.
*sigh*
FTS.
posted by symbioid at 11:08 AM on November 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
*sigh*
FTS.
posted by symbioid at 11:08 AM on November 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
I am a very stupid person. What would it take to create a viable, good, Bandcamp alternative?
It's a lot more difficult I think than it was the first time around - Bandcamp came of age alongside users who were, generally speaking, very used to buying and searching for and sharing music. You were talking users who were used to ripping MP3s from CDs and using Napster/Kazaa already, so the idea of a site that gave you that kind of stuff but legally and supported an artist you liked directly was not a far bridge back then.
Now, all but the true die-hards are content with leasing low-quality music at a low price and the cost to acquire customers in a marketplace that has Spotify spending billions to get them is very high. And you're not only trying to convert them to another platform, but also to consume music differently and to pay a fair rate to do so.
Re-creating a platform would be the easy part - trying to grow another Bandcamp with a bunch of giants stepping on your neck this time around I think would be momentously difficult. It's what has made Bandcamp's existence such a good thing and why this whole ride is particularly shitty.
posted by openhearted at 12:15 PM on November 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
It's a lot more difficult I think than it was the first time around - Bandcamp came of age alongside users who were, generally speaking, very used to buying and searching for and sharing music. You were talking users who were used to ripping MP3s from CDs and using Napster/Kazaa already, so the idea of a site that gave you that kind of stuff but legally and supported an artist you liked directly was not a far bridge back then.
Now, all but the true die-hards are content with leasing low-quality music at a low price and the cost to acquire customers in a marketplace that has Spotify spending billions to get them is very high. And you're not only trying to convert them to another platform, but also to consume music differently and to pay a fair rate to do so.
Re-creating a platform would be the easy part - trying to grow another Bandcamp with a bunch of giants stepping on your neck this time around I think would be momentously difficult. It's what has made Bandcamp's existence such a good thing and why this whole ride is particularly shitty.
posted by openhearted at 12:15 PM on November 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
Building the storefront and distribution part likely isn’t hard as these things go. Payments harder depending on how much you want to be able to handle internally?
But at the moment Bandcamp as a basic storefront platform still exists. It’s support and in-house curation/marketing that have been cut to the bone.
a bunch of giants stepping on your neck this time around
I don’t really think so. The whole thing is they do something the giants aren’t really interested in. Spotify isn’t going to elbow in on vinyl and t-shirt sales. I guess maybe this is another comment written with the assumption that Bandcamp was forced to sell because their business was in decline but I still haven’t seen any actual indication of that.
posted by atoxyl at 12:39 PM on November 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
But at the moment Bandcamp as a basic storefront platform still exists. It’s support and in-house curation/marketing that have been cut to the bone.
a bunch of giants stepping on your neck this time around
I don’t really think so. The whole thing is they do something the giants aren’t really interested in. Spotify isn’t going to elbow in on vinyl and t-shirt sales. I guess maybe this is another comment written with the assumption that Bandcamp was forced to sell because their business was in decline but I still haven’t seen any actual indication of that.
posted by atoxyl at 12:39 PM on November 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
The thing that upsets me most about this entire bandcamp situation is that the business model works and everyone made money. According to the front page: "Fans have paid artists $1.21 billion using Bandcamp, and $193 million in the last year."
The problem seems to be that in this current era of Capitalism, everyone making money is a bad thing, only a tiny sliver of humanity should be entitled to everything, and everyone else deserves to waste away. This winner take all mindset is a cancer for society and the planet. This feels like when a toddler is asked to share something, and instead of sharing the thing decides to devour/destroy it.
Seconding what CynicalKnight said above:
That is why. Predatory commerce is just as much about destroying fairer sales models to prevent the masses from getting accustomed to them, as it is about fighting to hoover up every viable resource in sight.
posted by nikoniko at 1:16 PM on November 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
The problem seems to be that in this current era of Capitalism, everyone making money is a bad thing, only a tiny sliver of humanity should be entitled to everything, and everyone else deserves to waste away. This winner take all mindset is a cancer for society and the planet. This feels like when a toddler is asked to share something, and instead of sharing the thing decides to devour/destroy it.
Seconding what CynicalKnight said above:
That is why. Predatory commerce is just as much about destroying fairer sales models to prevent the masses from getting accustomed to them, as it is about fighting to hoover up every viable resource in sight.
posted by nikoniko at 1:16 PM on November 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
That BMI news spells trouble as well. Let's watch how a non-profit platform that serves its constituents and helps them make money from their labor, turns into a hydra that serves its shareholders and private equity masters by siphoning its erstwhile constituents labor/money into the new owner's pockets.
posted by nikoniko at 1:29 PM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by nikoniko at 1:29 PM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Of course Big Company Music Stores in 2013-2014 saw that piddly stuff as not worth their while
The "Big Company Music Stores" of which you speak had ~30 employees at its peak. At the end it was me and two other software (one mid career, one junior) on the engineering side keeping things going. Our customer service department was 3 people, although almost all their work was merch/event related, which we also sold.
Although, I do wish I had convinced some friends and family to loan me to money to pick up the pieces we sold of to a private equity. It was losing money, but me and a couple friends could have kept costs extremely low by running it out of one of our houses and turned a decent profit.
You did get the last part right. After our investors pulled the plug, I got acquired two separate times and 14 months later I was one of the many people that made Apple Music happen.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 4:42 PM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
The "Big Company Music Stores" of which you speak had ~30 employees at its peak. At the end it was me and two other software (one mid career, one junior) on the engineering side keeping things going. Our customer service department was 3 people, although almost all their work was merch/event related, which we also sold.
Although, I do wish I had convinced some friends and family to loan me to money to pick up the pieces we sold of to a private equity. It was losing money, but me and a couple friends could have kept costs extremely low by running it out of one of our houses and turned a decent profit.
You did get the last part right. After our investors pulled the plug, I got acquired two separate times and 14 months later I was one of the many people that made Apple Music happen.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 4:42 PM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
"I was one of the many people that made Apple Music happen" posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme
Oh dear, that feels ominous.
posted by hippybear at 4:52 PM on November 22, 2023
Oh dear, that feels ominous.
posted by hippybear at 4:52 PM on November 22, 2023
I was one of the many people that made Apple Music happen.
I remember you talking about working for/being acquired by Apple, if I’m conflating things that’s why, sorry.
posted by atoxyl at 5:19 PM on November 22, 2023
I remember you talking about working for/being acquired by Apple, if I’m conflating things that’s why, sorry.
posted by atoxyl at 5:19 PM on November 22, 2023
after reading the article, im honestly pleasantly surprised that epic was mostly hands off in its approach of managing bandcamp and even increase the artai (artists who are in contracts that can't sell on Bandcamp ad mentioned in the article: I'm really interested to hear more about this). . As a Bandcamp customer, i hadn't noticed any difference in my experience ((while epic owned it).
posted by fizzix at 7:09 PM on November 22, 2023
posted by fizzix at 7:09 PM on November 22, 2023
I don’t really think so. The whole thing is they do something the giants aren’t really interested in. Spotify isn’t going to elbow in on vinyl and t-shirt sales. I guess maybe this is another comment written with the assumption that Bandcamp was forced to sell because their business was in decline but I still haven’t seen any actual indication of that
I think perhaps you misread my comment - I don't think Spotify is interested in the specific business that Bandcamp does, but it certainly is competing over people looking for music. Bandcamp to my knowledge has an incredibly loyal and long-standing clientele who find out about artists through the platform and is I think 100% why they, as a company, were actually successful - they have a community that has propelled their growth directly by sharing music to their friends, family, etc. A new platform would not have that kind of momentum behind them and, in the era of the streaming giants, I think that getting that community will be more difficult in 2023 than it was in 2007 because the nature of the internet has fundamentally changed.
posted by openhearted at 12:33 PM on November 23, 2023
Yeah, exactly. Bandcamp had a long-standing community behind them. As a service, there were actually lots of gentle complaints people made about what they did. Stuff like no volume slider, no way to collapse your collection by artist, year purchased, year released, etc., no way to set up collaborative records that linked to two or more artist profiles simultaneously. Any Bandcamp replacement could fix those things, and make it ten times better in the process, and still never get anywhere near the widespread adoption that Bandcamp has. Bandcamp is a platform where a death metal band and smooth jazz saxophonist can make the same amount of money side-by-side. It's truly a special platform.
posted by Cpt. The Mango at 5:20 PM on November 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Cpt. The Mango at 5:20 PM on November 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm deep into the techno/club music world and have been for almost 18 years. As far as underground/more avant stuff and music by just like, less represented communities, bandcamp was it.
There isn't any other super good way to get stuff out there. Physical media is super expensive to produce now(especially vinyl) with godawful lead times, and the vast majority of people just load wavs/mp3s onto a USB stick anyways.
Everyone is going through the stages of grief on this and mourning it hard. Even out of people i directly know(or have known) there's music up there by projects that don't exist anymore, people that died and other than piracy i don't know how you'd get it. There's a lot of stuff on there i haven't even seen up that way.
Over the past few years multiple people have either gotten the remnants of old legendary underground labels, or gotten the rights to them and released their entire catalogs on bandcamp. A lot of times there's no other way to buy this stuff. A lot of times it was old enough to have been vinyl and cd or even just vinyl only, and expensive on discogs.
I honestly don't know if there will be the will to build this all back up again if it implodes. It took this long to be seen as enough of a pillar to even draw in the people it needed to, or seem permanent enough to be worth committing the time/effort to. I don't even know how much of that would really be done again.
So many people i know, or work alongside, casually communicate with, follow etc are mourning this in all different ways. It's really fucked up and bleak.
Bandcamp, and bc fridays was a massive catalyst for an explosion of creativity in the dance music scene during 2020/21. I have several friends who have real, international touring careers now that were built significantly off of just cranking out great stuff and throwing it up on there in that time period. Everyone in the scene, and all the publications and tastemakers/curators that mattered were watching that site like a hawk.
It's all just really, really sad. And fucked.
posted by emptythought at 3:27 PM on November 24, 2023 [5 favorites]
There isn't any other super good way to get stuff out there. Physical media is super expensive to produce now(especially vinyl) with godawful lead times, and the vast majority of people just load wavs/mp3s onto a USB stick anyways.
Everyone is going through the stages of grief on this and mourning it hard. Even out of people i directly know(or have known) there's music up there by projects that don't exist anymore, people that died and other than piracy i don't know how you'd get it. There's a lot of stuff on there i haven't even seen up that way.
Over the past few years multiple people have either gotten the remnants of old legendary underground labels, or gotten the rights to them and released their entire catalogs on bandcamp. A lot of times there's no other way to buy this stuff. A lot of times it was old enough to have been vinyl and cd or even just vinyl only, and expensive on discogs.
I honestly don't know if there will be the will to build this all back up again if it implodes. It took this long to be seen as enough of a pillar to even draw in the people it needed to, or seem permanent enough to be worth committing the time/effort to. I don't even know how much of that would really be done again.
So many people i know, or work alongside, casually communicate with, follow etc are mourning this in all different ways. It's really fucked up and bleak.
Bandcamp, and bc fridays was a massive catalyst for an explosion of creativity in the dance music scene during 2020/21. I have several friends who have real, international touring careers now that were built significantly off of just cranking out great stuff and throwing it up on there in that time period. Everyone in the scene, and all the publications and tastemakers/curators that mattered were watching that site like a hawk.
It's all just really, really sad. And fucked.
posted by emptythought at 3:27 PM on November 24, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm waiting on an actual vinyl I bought. Should have been here the 15th and the help page does say that the actual fulfillment is done by the re4cord company but.....what if they were never paid.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 3:49 PM on November 26, 2023
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 3:49 PM on November 26, 2023
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What a disaster.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:44 AM on November 22, 2023 [7 favorites]