Your Favorite Thing Sucks
December 1, 2023 2:30 AM Subscribe
What intrigues me about musical anhedonia, and the 5 percent of the human population who supposedly suffer from it, is the possibility—indeed, the likelihood—that 5 percent is an underestimate. I strongly suspect there are a lot more than four hundred million people out there who would rather opt out. from Who Doesn’t Like Music? Nabokov, For Starters, an excerpt from Listen by Michel Faber
This whole piece is strange. He equates being in the cultural minority of not caring for music as the same as being oppressed for being gay (without even mentioning the obvious, if no less offensive, comparison point of asexuals many of whom have struggled for acceptance even within the LGBTQA+ community).
"And our society has decided that not caring for music is unacceptable."
It's probably because of the comparison to the struggles of gay people but I bristle at the fundamental idea that being in a minority automatically makes you an oppressed minority. I mean, on a high level point of view, it's true that being in a minority creates more friction in your life than if you were part of the majority. But when you equate this general friction to being oppressed for being gay it just feels wrong to me. Music might be omnipresent and but teenagers aren't being sent to music conversion camps against their will.
Not liking music is out of the ordinary, but so is "I don't watch TV" or "I don't drink" or really any abstinence from things a plurality of humans partake in. I'm sure anyone who identifies with these statements has experiences of people being rude about it and it's not fun being surrounded by reminders that most people enjoy these things and you don't.
And then seemingly out of nowhere he brings up how hyperbole about experiences with music is dishonest and also capitalism has forced music everywhere and back in the good old days we were just happy with silence.
Odd piece that I don't feel actually does much to explore humanity's relationship to music beyond some weird sweeping statements based on his own observations.
posted by slimepuppy at 4:17 AM on December 1, 2023 [24 favorites]
"And our society has decided that not caring for music is unacceptable."
It's probably because of the comparison to the struggles of gay people but I bristle at the fundamental idea that being in a minority automatically makes you an oppressed minority. I mean, on a high level point of view, it's true that being in a minority creates more friction in your life than if you were part of the majority. But when you equate this general friction to being oppressed for being gay it just feels wrong to me. Music might be omnipresent and but teenagers aren't being sent to music conversion camps against their will.
Not liking music is out of the ordinary, but so is "I don't watch TV" or "I don't drink" or really any abstinence from things a plurality of humans partake in. I'm sure anyone who identifies with these statements has experiences of people being rude about it and it's not fun being surrounded by reminders that most people enjoy these things and you don't.
And then seemingly out of nowhere he brings up how hyperbole about experiences with music is dishonest and also capitalism has forced music everywhere and back in the good old days we were just happy with silence.
Odd piece that I don't feel actually does much to explore humanity's relationship to music beyond some weird sweeping statements based on his own observations.
posted by slimepuppy at 4:17 AM on December 1, 2023 [24 favorites]
beethoven, famously, listened to music less and less even as he became a composer of some repute
posted by logicpunk at 4:40 AM on December 1, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by logicpunk at 4:40 AM on December 1, 2023 [10 favorites]
This feels much more like a teaser than an excerpt!
posted by mittens at 5:06 AM on December 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by mittens at 5:06 AM on December 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
Faber does not specifically equate being gay with not liking music.
Instead, he mentions that not long ago being gay was socially unacceptable in a way that’s scarcely conceivable now as a leadin to an anecdote in which a musical anhedonic compares his musical anhedonia to being gay:
posted by jamjam at 5:08 AM on December 1, 2023 [10 favorites]
Instead, he mentions that not long ago being gay was socially unacceptable in a way that’s scarcely conceivable now as a leadin to an anecdote in which a musical anhedonic compares his musical anhedonia to being gay:
Strikingly, a “musical anhedonic” who offered himself for study at Boston’s Northeastern University told one of the professors that admitting to not liking music was rather like coming out as gay. The “problem” was not his relationship with music per se, but his relationship with the normal people who couldn’t tolerate him being different. The researchers didn’t seem very interested in this social alarm bell. Instead, they used biomedical imaging to study the auditory regions of his cerebrum.I read that anecdote as coming from a person who has come out as gay and sees similarities to admitting their own musical anhedonia.
posted by jamjam at 5:08 AM on December 1, 2023 [10 favorites]
The analogy with coming out as gay is useful here.
That is pretty hard evidence of a comparison using like or as between gayness and "not wanting the radio so loud".
posted by MonsieurPEB at 5:32 AM on December 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
That is pretty hard evidence of a comparison using like or as between gayness and "not wanting the radio so loud".
posted by MonsieurPEB at 5:32 AM on December 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
The point of the analogy is that it breaks down on closer analysis. The analogy is "useful" because it highlights the difference (although sharing an ultimate cause). Note the function of whereas in this sentence, it's doing all the work: "Gay people who try to live as straights keep colliding with their desires, over and over, and those collisions have consequences, whereas the absence of a love for music can be much more easily managed." And he finishes up the analogy in a way that should make it absolutely clear that he's not trying to draw some one-to-one correspondence of oppression: "Being bored or distracted is hardly hellish torture. You could cope with it all your life and never shed a tear or cause a scene."
posted by mittens at 5:45 AM on December 1, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by mittens at 5:45 AM on December 1, 2023 [9 favorites]
He keeps hitting that comparison throughout the piece. It's not a one-off.
Historically, it’s a scarily short time ago that homosexuality was classified a disease and feminism was seen as a disorder that might require surgery. How judgmentally normative is a “normal” relationship with music?
...
The analogy with coming out as gay is useful here. We know there are lots of homosexuals around, because faking one’s sexuality is so difficult to sustain. Gay people who try to live as straights keep colliding with their desires, over and over, and those collisions have consequences, whereas the absence of a love for music can be much more easily managed.
He brings it up three separate times. I feel like that's not just me overreading into this. Maybe it's poor choice of excerpts but it got my hackles up.
posted by slimepuppy at 5:45 AM on December 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
Historically, it’s a scarily short time ago that homosexuality was classified a disease and feminism was seen as a disorder that might require surgery. How judgmentally normative is a “normal” relationship with music?
...
The analogy with coming out as gay is useful here. We know there are lots of homosexuals around, because faking one’s sexuality is so difficult to sustain. Gay people who try to live as straights keep colliding with their desires, over and over, and those collisions have consequences, whereas the absence of a love for music can be much more easily managed.
He brings it up three separate times. I feel like that's not just me overreading into this. Maybe it's poor choice of excerpts but it got my hackles up.
posted by slimepuppy at 5:45 AM on December 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
No journalist would dare to say that if you don’t love model trains, T. S. Eliot, jogging or Star Wars, you must be clinically dead. They feel free to say it about your failure to adore their favorite sounds.
If you don't warm to The Muppets, you're dead inside
Anecdotally, I think whether people treating not liking music as a big deal or just another preference, like preferring coffee to tea, or not liking sweets or whatever, will vary based on your culture/subculture. There are and have been many people in my life who don't really do music at all. It's never been anything anyone has made a fuss over, as far as I'm aware. Some people you invite to your board game nights. Some you invite to the pub. Some you invite to your gig. Not everyone likes the same things. Hell, I play several instruments and have been in several gigging bands, but I very rarely go to a concert. Not much more common for me to listen to music at home (maybe for an hour or so every few weeks?), and I never have music on when I'm out and about - I want to be aware of my surroundings.
I've had just as strong as in the article - but also just as rare in my above anecdote - reactions from people when I tell them I don't really like watching films or TV. It seems to be a medium that's treated as just as universal and essential in modern life.
But I don't see either being treated as unacceptable? Unusual, sure, maybe even a bit odd. But I've never seen attitudes of it being a problem, outside of the hyperbole of fans (who will devote this kind of hyperbole to whatever they are a fan of, especially if it's the slightest bit socially approved - not liking poetry is described by many poetry fans as a moral failing, "Without art, the crudeness of reality would make the world unbearable" and so on, for example).
So: I guess I just don't move in the same circles as the author. I don't discount their experiences, but I do question the universality of it.
posted by Dysk at 5:50 AM on December 1, 2023 [11 favorites]
If you don't warm to The Muppets, you're dead inside
Anecdotally, I think whether people treating not liking music as a big deal or just another preference, like preferring coffee to tea, or not liking sweets or whatever, will vary based on your culture/subculture. There are and have been many people in my life who don't really do music at all. It's never been anything anyone has made a fuss over, as far as I'm aware. Some people you invite to your board game nights. Some you invite to the pub. Some you invite to your gig. Not everyone likes the same things. Hell, I play several instruments and have been in several gigging bands, but I very rarely go to a concert. Not much more common for me to listen to music at home (maybe for an hour or so every few weeks?), and I never have music on when I'm out and about - I want to be aware of my surroundings.
I've had just as strong as in the article - but also just as rare in my above anecdote - reactions from people when I tell them I don't really like watching films or TV. It seems to be a medium that's treated as just as universal and essential in modern life.
But I don't see either being treated as unacceptable? Unusual, sure, maybe even a bit odd. But I've never seen attitudes of it being a problem, outside of the hyperbole of fans (who will devote this kind of hyperbole to whatever they are a fan of, especially if it's the slightest bit socially approved - not liking poetry is described by many poetry fans as a moral failing, "Without art, the crudeness of reality would make the world unbearable" and so on, for example).
So: I guess I just don't move in the same circles as the author. I don't discount their experiences, but I do question the universality of it.
posted by Dysk at 5:50 AM on December 1, 2023 [11 favorites]
In a publisher's blurb for the book from which this was excerpted: There are countless books on music with much analysis given to musicians, bands, eras and/or genres. But rarely does a book delve into what's going on inside us when we listen.
Rarely? I don't think so. There are so many books on the neuroaesthetics of music out there it's impossible to avoid running across one if you are interested in music and titallated by all the neurosciency content out there.
Here are just seven of the many books on the subject.
(Although it looks like Faber's book looks like it may be a snarky break from the usual pedantic take on the subject.)
posted by kozad at 5:53 AM on December 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
Rarely? I don't think so. There are so many books on the neuroaesthetics of music out there it's impossible to avoid running across one if you are interested in music and titallated by all the neurosciency content out there.
Here are just seven of the many books on the subject.
(Although it looks like Faber's book looks like it may be a snarky break from the usual pedantic take on the subject.)
posted by kozad at 5:53 AM on December 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
I am a bit of a music obsessive, but I completely understand how music doesn't work for people. Competitive sports do not work for me, really, at all, and I would be perfectly happy if I never had to listen/see/participate in any of them again. I just don't get it (data point: I don't really like competitive reality shows either--no matter whether they're doing a "Survivor" thing or baking cakes. Sometimes I like to see end results if they are attractive or have a good story, but honestly, the least interesting part is who wins/loses).
posted by thivaia at 6:07 AM on December 1, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by thivaia at 6:07 AM on December 1, 2023 [5 favorites]
If a character in fiction has no appreciation for music, the author is almost always trying to convey something negative. My mind jumps to something like the father in Footloose or a warped James Bond villain.
So I see the author’s point. I agree that the analogy to sexuality is a poor choice, but mostly in magnitude and not in quality. No one ever got thrown in jail or lost a job for insufficient toe-tapping.
posted by condour75 at 6:07 AM on December 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
So I see the author’s point. I agree that the analogy to sexuality is a poor choice, but mostly in magnitude and not in quality. No one ever got thrown in jail or lost a job for insufficient toe-tapping.
posted by condour75 at 6:07 AM on December 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
Another thought- I’m pretty much exactly this way about sports, and it’s probably affected my life in a million ways, but it’s never endangered me and I wouldn’t equate myself to a persecuted minority.
posted by condour75 at 6:14 AM on December 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by condour75 at 6:14 AM on December 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
Commercial culture does assume everyone likes music, the same way it assumes everyone wants sex. I assumed these things, too, for a while.
Once I became exposed to statistics about actual music listening, I came across ones like the Peter Gabriel finding in the article:
Some of the reason musicians don’t get paid living wages for their work are terrible middlemen, like labels and, to a less extent, streaming music companies. But I do think there is some credence to the idea that people shy away from talking about: People just don’t think music is as valuable as culture at large says it is.
posted by ignignokt at 6:17 AM on December 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
Once I became exposed to statistics about actual music listening, I came across ones like the Peter Gabriel finding in the article:
“I read this scary statistic from America,” Peter Gabriel told Rolling Stone in 1987, just after So had hit pay dirt, “that the average album is played 1.2 times. It’s an impulse buy, or something to impress a girlfriend, part of the artillery with which you announce yourself to the world.”I don’t have the citation on hand, but in 1999, the average yearly spending on music was somewhere around $25/year. And yet, the underlying narrative then and now is that everyone was passionate about music.
Some of the reason musicians don’t get paid living wages for their work are terrible middlemen, like labels and, to a less extent, streaming music companies. But I do think there is some credence to the idea that people shy away from talking about: People just don’t think music is as valuable as culture at large says it is.
posted by ignignokt at 6:17 AM on December 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
Commercial culture does assume everyone likes music, the same way it assumes everyone wants sex.
No more so than it assumes everyone likes chocolate, I'd posit.
Thinking about it, I think on my circles (including mefi) you are much more likely to encounter the idea that if you don't read books, you are somehow deficient as a person, and it's more likely to be meant in earnest, rather than as playful hyperbole.
posted by Dysk at 6:24 AM on December 1, 2023 [7 favorites]
No more so than it assumes everyone likes chocolate, I'd posit.
Thinking about it, I think on my circles (including mefi) you are much more likely to encounter the idea that if you don't read books, you are somehow deficient as a person, and it's more likely to be meant in earnest, rather than as playful hyperbole.
posted by Dysk at 6:24 AM on December 1, 2023 [7 favorites]
If a character in fiction has no appreciation for music, the author is almost always trying to convey something negative.
That's true of the first instance I thought of. From Jane Austen's Emma (1816):
". . . for married women, you know—there is a sad story against them, in general. They are but too apt to give up music.”
“But you, who are so extremely fond of it—there can be no danger, surely?”
“I should hope not; but really when I look around among my acquaintance, I tremble. Selina has entirely given up music—never touches the instrument—though she played sweetly. And the same may be said of Mrs. Jeffereys—Clara Partridge, that was—and of the two Milmans, now Mrs. Bird and Mrs. James Cooper; and of more than I can enumerate. Upon my word it is enough to put one in a fright. I used to be quite angry with Selina; but really I begin now to comprehend that a married woman has many things to call her attention. I believe I was half an hour this morning shut up with my housekeeper.”
“But every thing of that kind,” said Emma, “will soon be in so regular a train—”
“Well,” said Mrs. Elton, laughing, “we shall see.”
Emma, finding her so determined upon neglecting her music, had nothing more to say . . . "
posted by JanetLand at 6:45 AM on December 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
That's true of the first instance I thought of. From Jane Austen's Emma (1816):
". . . for married women, you know—there is a sad story against them, in general. They are but too apt to give up music.”
“But you, who are so extremely fond of it—there can be no danger, surely?”
“I should hope not; but really when I look around among my acquaintance, I tremble. Selina has entirely given up music—never touches the instrument—though she played sweetly. And the same may be said of Mrs. Jeffereys—Clara Partridge, that was—and of the two Milmans, now Mrs. Bird and Mrs. James Cooper; and of more than I can enumerate. Upon my word it is enough to put one in a fright. I used to be quite angry with Selina; but really I begin now to comprehend that a married woman has many things to call her attention. I believe I was half an hour this morning shut up with my housekeeper.”
“But every thing of that kind,” said Emma, “will soon be in so regular a train—”
“Well,” said Mrs. Elton, laughing, “we shall see.”
Emma, finding her so determined upon neglecting her music, had nothing more to say . . . "
posted by JanetLand at 6:45 AM on December 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
> "If a character in fiction has no appreciation for music, the author is almost always trying to convey something negative."
Honestly, the only such character that leapt to mind for me was Horatio Hornblower, who was the hero.
posted by kyrademon at 6:51 AM on December 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
Honestly, the only such character that leapt to mind for me was Horatio Hornblower, who was the hero.
posted by kyrademon at 6:51 AM on December 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
beethoven, famously, listened to music less and less even as he became a composer of some repute
He certainly wasn't listening to the music inside his head less.
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 6:52 AM on December 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
He certainly wasn't listening to the music inside his head less.
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 6:52 AM on December 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
And Jane Austen is pretty evenhanded about it, actually. In Sense and Sensibility (1811), the narrator says this about Elinor, who is one of the heroines and meant to be admired:
"As Elinor was neither musical, nor affecting to be so, she made no scruple of turning her eyes from the grand pianoforte, whenever it suited her, and unrestrained even by the presence of a harp, and violoncello, would fix them at pleasure on any other object in the room."
posted by JanetLand at 6:54 AM on December 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
"As Elinor was neither musical, nor affecting to be so, she made no scruple of turning her eyes from the grand pianoforte, whenever it suited her, and unrestrained even by the presence of a harp, and violoncello, would fix them at pleasure on any other object in the room."
posted by JanetLand at 6:54 AM on December 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
My grandma was like this and people were so so weird about it. I'd compare it to being asexual, or being vegetarian or sober for "I just don't enjoy the taste" preference reasons, over being gay, because it's very much the same skepticism that you could possibly actually just not want to hear music and just haven't heard the right music yet. Into her 80s she was still getting "oh but I bet you'll get into music when you hear [musician]!!!" Like buddy if someone made it to the retirement home finding all music annoying do you really think your favorite band is what they've been missing?? Gimme a break.
posted by potrzebie at 6:55 AM on December 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by potrzebie at 6:55 AM on December 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
That is pretty hard evidence of a comparison using like or as between gayness and "not wanting the radio so loud".
I can fully identify with the constant invasion of other people's unwanted music into one's silence. For neurotypicals it is often annoying. For autistic people it can be overwhelming. Don't belittle us with snark.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 7:00 AM on December 1, 2023 [7 favorites]
I can fully identify with the constant invasion of other people's unwanted music into one's silence. For neurotypicals it is often annoying. For autistic people it can be overwhelming. Don't belittle us with snark.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 7:00 AM on December 1, 2023 [7 favorites]
I dunno, as an autistic gay person, I find the comparison between being queer and not wanting noises going on unnecessarily odious as well. The radio being so loud can be overwhelming, even physically painful for me (“so loud" here is not very loud at all to most other people) but it is still Not Cool to suggest it is as marginalising as being queer.
posted by Dysk at 7:07 AM on December 1, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 7:07 AM on December 1, 2023 [8 favorites]
Not liking music is out of the ordinary, but so is "I don't watch TV" or "I don't drink" or really any abstinence from things a plurality of humans partake in. I'm sure anyone who identifies with these statements has experiences of people being rude about it and it's not fun being surrounded by reminders that most people enjoy these things and you don't.
Absolutely this. I'm 30 years sober and I still get 'Buhuh! You don't drink?! But... you're British! Can't you have just one?' If they're really obnoxious I tell them a couple of my drinking stories; that shuts them up.
Where other people's intrusive music is concerned, I have noise-cancelling headphones. I haven't yet had to pull out my phone, put on Tokyo Anal Dynamite, crank it up to 11 and exclaim 'You want music? Here's some music.' But that day will probably come.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 7:07 AM on December 1, 2023 [5 favorites]
Absolutely this. I'm 30 years sober and I still get 'Buhuh! You don't drink?! But... you're British! Can't you have just one?' If they're really obnoxious I tell them a couple of my drinking stories; that shuts them up.
Where other people's intrusive music is concerned, I have noise-cancelling headphones. I haven't yet had to pull out my phone, put on Tokyo Anal Dynamite, crank it up to 11 and exclaim 'You want music? Here's some music.' But that day will probably come.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 7:07 AM on December 1, 2023 [5 favorites]
As a straight man who loves music but empathizes with the thing being said in this piece quite a lot, I'm irritated that so many comparisons were made to being gay specifically because, all of a sudden, the things I'd love to add to this conversation—about how alienating it can be to be told, en masse, that your involuntary feelings about a thing aren't correct and are wrong and maybe even offensive—feel grossly like an attempt to equate something that I admittedly really do hate with the often-perilous and torturous experience of being gay in a nation that's less universally okay with LGBT experiences than this author claims.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 7:14 AM on December 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 7:14 AM on December 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
But just think of the savings! says a person who bought the record, then the tape, then the CD, then the mp3 and now the flac.
posted by a humble nudibranch at 7:18 AM on December 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by a humble nudibranch at 7:18 AM on December 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
Like Faber himself, I am autistic/hetero. From my limited perspective, I agree that his comparison between anhedonia and sexuality is not a good one. I think he's just trying too hard - he felt the need to make an analogy of some kind in order to reinforce his point, and dug himself into a hole.
What was his point exactly? Four words stuck out for me in the article: 'Unaccompanied silence was normal'. It's not really about anhedonia. It's about how nowadays there's music on, everywhere, all the time. And this may be annoying for neurotypicals, but can be overwhelming for autistics. For example, the recent prevalence of 'sound design' on TV shows - where there's background music in every scene, whether it adds anything or not - often means I can't actually hear the dialogue.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 7:20 AM on December 1, 2023 [8 favorites]
What was his point exactly? Four words stuck out for me in the article: 'Unaccompanied silence was normal'. It's not really about anhedonia. It's about how nowadays there's music on, everywhere, all the time. And this may be annoying for neurotypicals, but can be overwhelming for autistics. For example, the recent prevalence of 'sound design' on TV shows - where there's background music in every scene, whether it adds anything or not - often means I can't actually hear the dialogue.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 7:20 AM on December 1, 2023 [8 favorites]
I absolutely love music but I find nearly all music that is played publicly—-from current pop to 1970s classic rock—to be absolute shit. And I’ve always felt this way. So I empathize.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 7:27 AM on December 1, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 7:27 AM on December 1, 2023 [10 favorites]
"And our society has decided that not caring for music is unacceptable."
That's a dumb thing to write. When a society decides something is unacceptable, it is made illegal and/or otherwise openly criticized and reviled by political authorities. There are no anti-music haters rallies, or legislation pending in state legislatures to outlaw not listening to music, or whatever. The author is conflating people's opinions with systematic persecution, and that's gross.
I'm a musician, and I don't care whether or not the author loves music, at all. Just like I don't get upset if an audience member doesn't like something I programmed on a concert or show: if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you, and I'm not going to try and convince you that you're wrong for not liking it. In fact, I'll most likely thank you for showing up and giving it a chance, and supporting our performances. And for every person who just plain doesn't like music for whatever reason, there are like 95 people who do like music for lots of reasons, so I'm not going to worry about 100% capture; the potential audiences are big enough already.
(Maybe I should go write a think piece about how people who have never seen a Star Wars product are the new social pariahs or something.)
What was his point exactly? Four words stuck out for me in the article: 'Unaccompanied silence was normal'. It's not really about anhedonia. It's about how nowadays there's music on, everywhere, all the time.
This would be a much more interesting essay, one that considers how much music--or sound generally--is too much? And why is it too much for some and not others? Or maybe simply an essay about anhedonia: "here is this interesting way that my brain works, that is apparently not so common, but affects very common things like listening to music. Here is what listening to music is like for someone with anhedonia, and why I don't enjoy it...."
posted by LooseFilter at 7:29 AM on December 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
That's a dumb thing to write. When a society decides something is unacceptable, it is made illegal and/or otherwise openly criticized and reviled by political authorities. There are no anti-music haters rallies, or legislation pending in state legislatures to outlaw not listening to music, or whatever. The author is conflating people's opinions with systematic persecution, and that's gross.
I'm a musician, and I don't care whether or not the author loves music, at all. Just like I don't get upset if an audience member doesn't like something I programmed on a concert or show: if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you, and I'm not going to try and convince you that you're wrong for not liking it. In fact, I'll most likely thank you for showing up and giving it a chance, and supporting our performances. And for every person who just plain doesn't like music for whatever reason, there are like 95 people who do like music for lots of reasons, so I'm not going to worry about 100% capture; the potential audiences are big enough already.
(Maybe I should go write a think piece about how people who have never seen a Star Wars product are the new social pariahs or something.)
What was his point exactly? Four words stuck out for me in the article: 'Unaccompanied silence was normal'. It's not really about anhedonia. It's about how nowadays there's music on, everywhere, all the time.
This would be a much more interesting essay, one that considers how much music--or sound generally--is too much? And why is it too much for some and not others? Or maybe simply an essay about anhedonia: "here is this interesting way that my brain works, that is apparently not so common, but affects very common things like listening to music. Here is what listening to music is like for someone with anhedonia, and why I don't enjoy it...."
posted by LooseFilter at 7:29 AM on December 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
Perhaps he should have compared musical anhedonia to asexuality. A sex scene in a movie is exciting to sexual people. But to asexual people, it's just a reminder that they are different.
posted by SPrintF at 7:30 AM on December 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by SPrintF at 7:30 AM on December 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
A sex scene in a movie is exciting to sexual people.
This is also far from a universal truth. A sex scene in a movie is going to make me roll my eyes and groan (..not like that!) It is definitely not something I would describe as exciting, or indeed enjoyable in any way. Call me a prude (many do) but while I enjoy getting between the sheets with someone I love, I do not need or want to see others doing it, or have everything revolve around sex. Our society way over-emphasises sex and sex appeal in my opinion, as a "sexual person" (god I hate that phrasing, but I can't come up with anything else that isn't a double-negative).
posted by Dysk at 7:42 AM on December 1, 2023 [7 favorites]
This is also far from a universal truth. A sex scene in a movie is going to make me roll my eyes and groan (..not like that!) It is definitely not something I would describe as exciting, or indeed enjoyable in any way. Call me a prude (many do) but while I enjoy getting between the sheets with someone I love, I do not need or want to see others doing it, or have everything revolve around sex. Our society way over-emphasises sex and sex appeal in my opinion, as a "sexual person" (god I hate that phrasing, but I can't come up with anything else that isn't a double-negative).
posted by Dysk at 7:42 AM on December 1, 2023 [7 favorites]
Not liking music is out of the ordinary, but so is "I don't watch TV" or "I don't drink" or really any abstinence from things a plurality of humans partake in. I'm sure anyone who identifies with these statements has experiences of people being rude about it and it's not fun being surrounded by reminders that most people enjoy these things and you don't.
Except you can pretty easily not watch TV or you can choose not to drink and avoid having it end up on its way down your throat. You cannot escape music in a lot of situations. I won't go out for dinner after 6pm because I find the volume of the music in restaurants unbearable and it is very socially isolating to do this. If I do go out it is socially isolating even then because I can't hear a goddamn thing anyone is saying. Mostly I put this down to young extroverts just absolutely dominating all the social spaces in this world.
What I want is to consent to music I hear and I don't want to have cancel out all sound or replace it to get that control. Music in public places is a great example of the tyranny of the majority.
posted by srboisvert at 7:59 AM on December 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
Except you can pretty easily not watch TV or you can choose not to drink and avoid having it end up on its way down your throat. You cannot escape music in a lot of situations. I won't go out for dinner after 6pm because I find the volume of the music in restaurants unbearable and it is very socially isolating to do this. If I do go out it is socially isolating even then because I can't hear a goddamn thing anyone is saying. Mostly I put this down to young extroverts just absolutely dominating all the social spaces in this world.
What I want is to consent to music I hear and I don't want to have cancel out all sound or replace it to get that control. Music in public places is a great example of the tyranny of the majority.
posted by srboisvert at 7:59 AM on December 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
Only one person in my life said he didn't like music, and he did happen to be a fairly awful person in general. There's no causality there though, he was just a rich narcissist.
I've certainly known plenty of music lovers and music makers who appear to be small-minded, inconsiderate, or simply annoying twerps.
Music is huge to me. I listen to music while working and driving and while falling asleep. I spend a lot of my free time making music, and some reading about music. It's not what I do for a living, but it's my #1 passion.
There is, of course, plenty of music that I find irritating, and often I'd rather listen to the music in my head than whatever is being forced on everyone in that space. Stores and restaurants rarely play the stuff that I like and often play stuff I don't even want to have to tolerate (especially during Christmas season).
posted by Foosnark at 8:02 AM on December 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've certainly known plenty of music lovers and music makers who appear to be small-minded, inconsiderate, or simply annoying twerps.
Music is huge to me. I listen to music while working and driving and while falling asleep. I spend a lot of my free time making music, and some reading about music. It's not what I do for a living, but it's my #1 passion.
There is, of course, plenty of music that I find irritating, and often I'd rather listen to the music in my head than whatever is being forced on everyone in that space. Stores and restaurants rarely play the stuff that I like and often play stuff I don't even want to have to tolerate (especially during Christmas season).
posted by Foosnark at 8:02 AM on December 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
My hearing deficits were not diagnosed until I was middle-aged, and I'm sure it affects my ability to listen to music. I do love some music, and like a lot of music, but I don't keep the radio/ spotify/ etc., on all the time the way some people I know do.
There's ample evidence that music affects buying. Agrarian societies have working songs to keep up the pace while sowing, harvesting, etc. I am very susceptible to rhythm for dance or other activity; that seems pretty hard-wired in humans. Those who don't respond to music, do you respond to rhythm? I find exercise without music unpleasant, but will happily dance hard to music that moves me.
Like many Westerners, the Western, diatonic, scale is familiar and other scales sound off. I listen to a fair bit of Eastern European music, and have come to find a lot of pop music boring because the time signature is usually in 4/4 and it gets old.
srboisvert, get your hearing tested; hearing aids have improved considerably, and can be used to limit external sound, as well.
posted by theora55 at 8:11 AM on December 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
There's ample evidence that music affects buying. Agrarian societies have working songs to keep up the pace while sowing, harvesting, etc. I am very susceptible to rhythm for dance or other activity; that seems pretty hard-wired in humans. Those who don't respond to music, do you respond to rhythm? I find exercise without music unpleasant, but will happily dance hard to music that moves me.
Like many Westerners, the Western, diatonic, scale is familiar and other scales sound off. I listen to a fair bit of Eastern European music, and have come to find a lot of pop music boring because the time signature is usually in 4/4 and it gets old.
srboisvert, get your hearing tested; hearing aids have improved considerably, and can be used to limit external sound, as well.
posted by theora55 at 8:11 AM on December 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
Music is absolutely essential to me. But I can see how modern life is frustrating to people for whom it is an active displeasure. Music is ubiquitous and difficult to ignore, you really cannot switch off your ears (and if you could, you'd probably just get tinnitus, which sucks). I don't think there's a particularly good comparison with anything else. That's slightly separate to the cultural thing that it's uncool and slightly philistine-ish to dislike music. Which I think actually is worse in some circles for books and reading.
posted by plonkee at 8:21 AM on December 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by plonkee at 8:21 AM on December 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
If you don't warm to The Muppets, you're dead inside
or maybe you just hit your teens just as they showed up on the cultural radar. I don't hate the Muppets, I just don't quite see what ALL the fuss is about. Also moving through my teens at a time when TV options were comparatively limited, they did seem to be on ALL THE FUCKING TIME (particularly before say 7pm) ... so bemusement became a thing. I also feel the same way about Star Fucking Wars.
Except you can pretty easily not watch TV
Not in very many homes I've been to. You walk in the door and the TV is on in the main room where you are invited to take a seat. Also many bars and restaurants and ... you name it. And yes, I am that guy who has often not didn't have a TV in his home (certainly not one that was immediately accessible) even as I've often as not made my living in (or adjacent to) the movie-TV biz. "Make TV, don't watch it," as I've heard it put.
An interview with Zoviet France (ambient-noise masters) comes to mind where one of them defines noise as "just sound you don't want to hear". I do think there's a lotta lotta noise in the world these days, and not just the audible kind, which when combined with how gloriously deaf-blind-unconscious to it so many are (even as it drives them subtly crazy on an unconscious level) makes everyday life something of a war zone. Or as Marshall McLuhan put it well over half a century ago:
World War 3 is a guerrilla information war with no division between military
and civilian participation.
We're all in it whether we realize it or not.
posted by philip-random at 8:51 AM on December 1, 2023 [5 favorites]
or maybe you just hit your teens just as they showed up on the cultural radar. I don't hate the Muppets, I just don't quite see what ALL the fuss is about. Also moving through my teens at a time when TV options were comparatively limited, they did seem to be on ALL THE FUCKING TIME (particularly before say 7pm) ... so bemusement became a thing. I also feel the same way about Star Fucking Wars.
Except you can pretty easily not watch TV
Not in very many homes I've been to. You walk in the door and the TV is on in the main room where you are invited to take a seat. Also many bars and restaurants and ... you name it. And yes, I am that guy who has often not didn't have a TV in his home (certainly not one that was immediately accessible) even as I've often as not made my living in (or adjacent to) the movie-TV biz. "Make TV, don't watch it," as I've heard it put.
An interview with Zoviet France (ambient-noise masters) comes to mind where one of them defines noise as "just sound you don't want to hear". I do think there's a lotta lotta noise in the world these days, and not just the audible kind, which when combined with how gloriously deaf-blind-unconscious to it so many are (even as it drives them subtly crazy on an unconscious level) makes everyday life something of a war zone. Or as Marshall McLuhan put it well over half a century ago:
World War 3 is a guerrilla information war with no division between military
and civilian participation.
We're all in it whether we realize it or not.
posted by philip-random at 8:51 AM on December 1, 2023 [5 favorites]
The parts of the brain that process music are not as quickly affected by Alzheimers dementia, which suggests that the ability to respond to music is embedded in various parts of our brains.
posted by theora55 at 8:58 AM on December 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 8:58 AM on December 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
Except you can pretty easily not watch TV or you can choose not to drink and avoid having it end up on its way down your throat.
Like I said, and the only reason I am sober at all is because I accepted the fact that I cannot choose not to drink.
Mostly I put this down to young extroverts just absolutely dominating all the social spaces in this world.
I'm not a psychologist, but I have heard it posited that this is not actually a symptom of extroversion but of conditioned neurosis - that is, we have a whole generation who have become so overstimulated that they can no longer handle silence; they subconsciously feel threatened by it.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 9:10 AM on December 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
Like I said, and the only reason I am sober at all is because I accepted the fact that I cannot choose not to drink.
Mostly I put this down to young extroverts just absolutely dominating all the social spaces in this world.
I'm not a psychologist, but I have heard it posited that this is not actually a symptom of extroversion but of conditioned neurosis - that is, we have a whole generation who have become so overstimulated that they can no longer handle silence; they subconsciously feel threatened by it.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 9:10 AM on December 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
where there's background music in every scene, whether it adds anything or not - often means I can't actually hear the dialogue.
Putting music with lyrics over dialogue should be subject to criminal penalty. Okay, okay, not really, but maybe some people need a stern talking to about it.
Being autistic, music has been a fixation of mine since I was a tween, with a strong connection to my maladaptive daydreaming, but, as I get older, it overstimulates me more. I can't deal with loud music anymore, when I used to blast punk and metal. There was a day when my 87-year-old mother, who is losing her hearing, was very loudly playing a Tex Ritter album and, combined with how warm she keeps her house (terrarium warm), I started losing my mind. Picking a new restaurant to try is a crap shoot, since it is in vogue to play loud music to prevent conversation so people eat and leave faster. I'm starting to appreciate silence more.
posted by LindsayIrene at 9:28 AM on December 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
Putting music with lyrics over dialogue should be subject to criminal penalty. Okay, okay, not really, but maybe some people need a stern talking to about it.
Being autistic, music has been a fixation of mine since I was a tween, with a strong connection to my maladaptive daydreaming, but, as I get older, it overstimulates me more. I can't deal with loud music anymore, when I used to blast punk and metal. There was a day when my 87-year-old mother, who is losing her hearing, was very loudly playing a Tex Ritter album and, combined with how warm she keeps her house (terrarium warm), I started losing my mind. Picking a new restaurant to try is a crap shoot, since it is in vogue to play loud music to prevent conversation so people eat and leave faster. I'm starting to appreciate silence more.
posted by LindsayIrene at 9:28 AM on December 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
Actual silence is really expensive nowadays. I was grooving on
posted by clew at 9:33 AM on December 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
This would be a much more interesting essay, one that considers how much music--or sound generally--is too much? And why is it too much for some and not others?philip-random’s war, maybe, and it’s a war with a lot of sides and we maybe don’t know which one we’re on.
posted by clew at 9:33 AM on December 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
Somewhat related, the movie "Sound of Noise" is about a group of anarchist drummers that stage drum-based crimes (halfway between a drum concert and a real crime) and the only detective who can solve the case has musical anhedonia. Plus he stomps on bagpipes at one point, which is the correct response.
posted by edward_5000 at 10:59 AM on December 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by edward_5000 at 10:59 AM on December 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
This would be a much more interesting essay, one that considers how much music--or sound generally--is too much? And why is it too much for some and not others?
That sounds like you're arguing that an essay which is essentially
posted by zamboni at 12:19 PM on December 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
That sounds like you're arguing that an essay which is essentially
some people don't like music, and some people don't like that the other people don't like musicbe replaced with
why don't some people like music, and what is wrong with them.
posted by zamboni at 12:19 PM on December 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
METAFILTER: he stomps on bagpipes at one point, which is the correct response.
posted by philip-random at 12:34 PM on December 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by philip-random at 12:34 PM on December 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
I tend to not wear my hearing aids when I'm at home on my own. The dog barks if someone comes to the door. It's bad for my hearing comprehension, but pretty peaceful, except that my neighbor's heat pump makes a incessant hum.
posted by theora55 at 1:52 PM on December 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 1:52 PM on December 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
as a "sexual person" (god I hate that phrasing, but I can't come up with anything else that isn't a double-negative).
"Allosexual" is the (other) antonym to asexual!
posted by lysimache at 2:32 PM on December 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
"Allosexual" is the (other) antonym to asexual!
posted by lysimache at 2:32 PM on December 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
'Cuz you like all o' that sex
posted by JDHarper at 3:13 PM on December 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by JDHarper at 3:13 PM on December 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
Can't find it now but long ago I posted about how I hate music, it ruined my life and I will always avoid it if possible, and y'all acted like I confessed to eating babies. Someone said that 'well I don't like dogs but people are always walking dogs around" and I said that gee, are you forced hold a dog while you shop? While you wait on hold? While you watch TV? Because music is a lot more ubiquitous than dogs.
posted by The otter lady at 4:25 PM on December 1, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by The otter lady at 4:25 PM on December 1, 2023 [8 favorites]
Someone said that 'well I don't like dogs but people are always walking dogs around"
Someone responded to your assertion that it is possible to entirely avoid dogs by pointing out that this isn't true. They weren't claiming an equivalence.
posted by Dysk at 8:53 PM on December 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
Someone responded to your assertion that it is possible to entirely avoid dogs by pointing out that this isn't true. They weren't claiming an equivalence.
posted by Dysk at 8:53 PM on December 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
People just don’t think music is as valuable as culture at large says it is.
How valuable does culture at large say it is? I think my baseline assumption would be that the vast majority of people - we can go with the 95 percent figure - enjoy music at least situationally, the majority enjoy music fairly regularly but without a ton of investment, listening to the radio in the background or putting on a favorite song from time to time, and only a minority are enthusiasts who continually look for new music, especially past young adulthood. I would venture that this kind of pattern holds for most cultural media. I listen to music every day but I doubt that I’ve watched more than a dozen movies this year and almost all of them were while I was hanging out with people who watch a lot of movies. And I like movies, and I’ve seen plenty of them in the past, it’s just not what I default to doing with my time these days.
posted by atoxyl at 11:12 PM on December 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
How valuable does culture at large say it is? I think my baseline assumption would be that the vast majority of people - we can go with the 95 percent figure - enjoy music at least situationally, the majority enjoy music fairly regularly but without a ton of investment, listening to the radio in the background or putting on a favorite song from time to time, and only a minority are enthusiasts who continually look for new music, especially past young adulthood. I would venture that this kind of pattern holds for most cultural media. I listen to music every day but I doubt that I’ve watched more than a dozen movies this year and almost all of them were while I was hanging out with people who watch a lot of movies. And I like movies, and I’ve seen plenty of them in the past, it’s just not what I default to doing with my time these days.
posted by atoxyl at 11:12 PM on December 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
I would call myself a musician. Learned to play at age 7, studied music into my 20s, been a performer. I have lost interest in listening to music because I hear too much. I positively dislike some music I haven't asked for because music sucks me in and not paying attention, tuning it out, costs me mental energy. Bad music - we'll leave defining "bad" for another comment - even more so. I resent attentional cost so much.
Beyond that I have music in my head all the time, snatches or even whole pieces like tics. I don't need to listen to music. It's already there.
This is a very different problem to musical anhedonia, but it is real.
I would be very interested to know if people with actual musical anhedonia can do things like tap their feet in time, or sing a note they just heard at the same pitch, and whether they have issues dancing, or if they can synchronise their movements to other people's. Is it a matter of taste? Or is some capability missing? And if it is, is it tied to other aspects of life?
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:33 AM on December 2, 2023 [3 favorites]
Beyond that I have music in my head all the time, snatches or even whole pieces like tics. I don't need to listen to music. It's already there.
This is a very different problem to musical anhedonia, but it is real.
I would be very interested to know if people with actual musical anhedonia can do things like tap their feet in time, or sing a note they just heard at the same pitch, and whether they have issues dancing, or if they can synchronise their movements to other people's. Is it a matter of taste? Or is some capability missing? And if it is, is it tied to other aspects of life?
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:33 AM on December 2, 2023 [3 favorites]
Is this where we complain about people playing music on their Bluetooth speakers in public? I was on the subway yesterday and some guy had a Bluetooth speaker hooked to his belt loop and it was ok and just blasting music. Asshole, get some headphones! It’s not about you!
I will not go to the Jersey shore during the summer because the entire beach is littered with doofus’ blasting music. It never used to be this way.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 3:21 AM on December 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
I will not go to the Jersey shore during the summer because the entire beach is littered with doofus’ blasting music. It never used to be this way.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 3:21 AM on December 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
A lot of these comments seem to be less anti-music, per se, and more pro-quiet. Which puts me in mind of how popular it is to mock and class-criticize the idea that even portions of the library should be quiet. Don't get me wrong, I feel strongly that public libraries should have sections set apart for kids and teenagers where the rules are much more relaxed, but seeing the latest round of online arguments about it, I noticed that even pro-quiet people felt they needed to reach for all sorts of unlikely arguments in defense rather than state plainly that there should be somewhere people can go to read and think in peace. A few years ago I popped into the main UM undergrad library and was startled to see that they had converted most of the study areas to collaborative workspace. Where the heck does a student go just to study?
posted by praemunire at 6:30 AM on December 2, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 6:30 AM on December 2, 2023 [5 favorites]
No, this is about the ordinary folks who wish the restaurant wouldn’t play music while they’re eating, the person who hates the way her flatmate switches the radio on as soon as she wakes up, the person who nods with feigned approval when his pals enthuse about a forthcoming concert that he has not the faintest desire to attend, the tourists who return from an overseas adventure unable to recall anything they heard, the driver who has the car radio tuned to talk shows and the news, the rambler who explores the woods all day, feeling no need for any musical accompaniment to that activity.
I have rarely felt more seen.
I used to love music. I have been in bands, I've been to more shows than I can count, I worked at a record store for years, etc. But the past few decades it's been rare for me to think "I wish there was some music playing now." I'll sometimes put music on in the car, especially if I feel like singing along, but that's just about it.
The other day I was waiting for a bus and realized I found the sound of passing cars very pleasant. There was one truck at a red light that was making the most interesting sound. It all drew me in like music used to. It's happened just the once and I have no idea what that was all about -- I guess the part of my brain that appreciates music is still there, just sleeping?
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:15 AM on December 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
I have rarely felt more seen.
I used to love music. I have been in bands, I've been to more shows than I can count, I worked at a record store for years, etc. But the past few decades it's been rare for me to think "I wish there was some music playing now." I'll sometimes put music on in the car, especially if I feel like singing along, but that's just about it.
The other day I was waiting for a bus and realized I found the sound of passing cars very pleasant. There was one truck at a red light that was making the most interesting sound. It all drew me in like music used to. It's happened just the once and I have no idea what that was all about -- I guess the part of my brain that appreciates music is still there, just sleeping?
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:15 AM on December 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
I could write a lot about the Nabokov aspect of this, but I'll just point out that -- despite the fact that much is made of that line in Speak, Memory -- his writings make it clear that he had an understanding of music theory.
His early short stories include one entitled "Music", in which the main character comes to realize that the music he hears and dismisses at a party was actually "incredible bliss, a magic glass dome that had embraced and imprisoned him and her".
Also, his only child Dmitri, to whom he was extremely devoted, became a famous opera singer, so it is unlikely that he was actively "anti-music".
posted by trip and a half at 8:28 AM on December 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
His early short stories include one entitled "Music", in which the main character comes to realize that the music he hears and dismisses at a party was actually "incredible bliss, a magic glass dome that had embraced and imprisoned him and her".
Also, his only child Dmitri, to whom he was extremely devoted, became a famous opera singer, so it is unlikely that he was actively "anti-music".
posted by trip and a half at 8:28 AM on December 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
It is still much more easy to avoid dogs than music. I have a friend who hates dogs and has not come within melee range of one for years. The grocery store has a big "NO DOGS EXCEPT SERVICE ANIMALS" sign but I get ear fucked by "Santa Baby" while I'm trying to buy food.
You know how you'd hate it if, to go through a daily routine, you got sprayed with perfume everywhere you went? Bank, perfume. Store, three or four sprays of perfume. Watch TV? Perfume out of the speakers. THATS WHAT MUSIC IS LIKE TO ME and I can't even ask for any kind of accomodations because people go "Oh my GOD how can you hate MUSIC WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?! YOU ARE WRONG!!!!"
"But perfume lasts, music is instant!" Unless you have a mind like mine that drags every fucking tune over and over and over like your brain is being ripped up by steel combs. It's rude, invasive, and borderline assault. I'd rather listen to Trump's speeches than Santa Baby.
posted by The otter lady at 10:26 AM on December 2, 2023 [5 favorites]
You know how you'd hate it if, to go through a daily routine, you got sprayed with perfume everywhere you went? Bank, perfume. Store, three or four sprays of perfume. Watch TV? Perfume out of the speakers. THATS WHAT MUSIC IS LIKE TO ME and I can't even ask for any kind of accomodations because people go "Oh my GOD how can you hate MUSIC WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?! YOU ARE WRONG!!!!"
"But perfume lasts, music is instant!" Unless you have a mind like mine that drags every fucking tune over and over and over like your brain is being ripped up by steel combs. It's rude, invasive, and borderline assault. I'd rather listen to Trump's speeches than Santa Baby.
posted by The otter lady at 10:26 AM on December 2, 2023 [5 favorites]
Also, his only child Dmitri, to whom he was extremely devoted, became a famous opera singer, so it is unlikely that he was actively "anti-music".
As we all know, kids never do the opposite of what their parents want.
posted by zamboni at 11:41 AM on December 2, 2023 [3 favorites]
As we all know, kids never do the opposite of what their parents want.
posted by zamboni at 11:41 AM on December 2, 2023 [3 favorites]
It is still much more easy to avoid dogs than music.
I agree; I was also not claiming an equivalence.
posted by Dysk at 12:14 PM on December 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
I agree; I was also not claiming an equivalence.
posted by Dysk at 12:14 PM on December 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
Re dogs and cats: it seems to be a movie trope that good people like dogs and villains like cats. I have occasionally got funny looks after admitting I don't like pets and would never have one.
posted by Vegiemon at 5:27 PM on December 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Vegiemon at 5:27 PM on December 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
I’m reading this out in public, and luckily the music is only humming in the background, but I’ve been inspired to just listen to the world around mea and it’s pretty nice. I think when I’m not listening to music, I mostly tune out the world, but just listening it quite nice actually.
posted by LizBoBiz at 5:39 PM on December 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by LizBoBiz at 5:39 PM on December 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
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posted by Literaryhero at 3:48 AM on December 1, 2023 [7 favorites]