Outports begone
January 19, 2024 11:55 PM Subscribe
The government of Newfoundland and Labrador has been pursuing a Resettlement policy of drawing in the tentacles of its reach, so the limited tax bucks can get better bangs - as defined by levelling payment per tax-payer. Recent case in point is Gaultois; a tiny settlement on a biggish (½ the size of Nantucket) island off the South coast of Newfoundland. In Spring 2023, a 64% majority of the stake-holders voted to accept an offer of ~$250,000 CAD each to leave their home. Not reaching the threshold of 75% meant that nobody could claim the resettlement grant.
The calculus is that it would cost the government $10million to shutter Gaultois now; but the payback time from trimming service provision (ferry service, water treatment, electric, school, town-hall, mail) off the budget is ten years. Similar (much more expensive) scheme being mooted in Grindavík. MetaPrev outport resettlement mention: fimbulvetr. Metafilter will be relieved to hear that, come what may, the 32 feral cats will be cared for [60 sec from 30 min 2023 documentary about Gaultois]. Recent adjacent Mefi thread about insurance, uninhabitability and climate.
The calculus is that it would cost the government $10million to shutter Gaultois now; but the payback time from trimming service provision (ferry service, water treatment, electric, school, town-hall, mail) off the budget is ten years. Similar (much more expensive) scheme being mooted in Grindavík. MetaPrev outport resettlement mention: fimbulvetr. Metafilter will be relieved to hear that, come what may, the 32 feral cats will be cared for [60 sec from 30 min 2023 documentary about Gaultois]. Recent adjacent Mefi thread about insurance, uninhabitability and climate.
It's the unsustainability problem of suburbs writ large. These sorts of communities don't remotely pay their own way and in this case also have disproportionately large CO2 emissions.
On top of that major infrastructure is at current sea level and is going to be taken out of service in the fairly short term.
Gaultois is very likely to not be a year round community in my life time. Good on the Newfoundland and Labrador for trying to wind these places down gracefully instead of via climate disaster or economic uncertainty where the government just doesn't fix the dock (eliminating ferry service).
But expect to see lots of opposition from land owners like Martine Blue, who owns at least one other rural property and was therefor unable to vote, who expect heavy public subsidies to fund their rec properties.
The way we live in Canada is unsustainable in many ways and I'm sure hoping we manage to pull back in an organized way but expect it to be messilly unplanned and more expensive than it needs to be.
posted by Mitheral at 5:32 AM on January 20 [24 favorites]
On top of that major infrastructure is at current sea level and is going to be taken out of service in the fairly short term.
Gaultois is very likely to not be a year round community in my life time. Good on the Newfoundland and Labrador for trying to wind these places down gracefully instead of via climate disaster or economic uncertainty where the government just doesn't fix the dock (eliminating ferry service).
But expect to see lots of opposition from land owners like Martine Blue, who owns at least one other rural property and was therefor unable to vote, who expect heavy public subsidies to fund their rec properties.
The way we live in Canada is unsustainable in many ways and I'm sure hoping we manage to pull back in an organized way but expect it to be messilly unplanned and more expensive than it needs to be.
posted by Mitheral at 5:32 AM on January 20 [24 favorites]
A question - is 250K CAD enough to buy a house in Canada?
posted by corb at 5:40 AM on January 20 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 5:40 AM on January 20 [2 favorites]
A question - is 250K CAD enough to buy a house in Canada?
The average house price in Canada is $655,507. The cheapest cities in Canada to buy a house in are Brandon, MB, with an average house price of $265,690, and Saint John, NB, with $297,400.
There are certainly houses available for less than $250K but they will be older, or smaller, or in bad condition, not luxury second homes in scenic locations, nor homes in locations with a lot of decent employment opportunities.
posted by Jane the Brown at 6:16 AM on January 20 [5 favorites]
The average house price in Canada is $655,507. The cheapest cities in Canada to buy a house in are Brandon, MB, with an average house price of $265,690, and Saint John, NB, with $297,400.
There are certainly houses available for less than $250K but they will be older, or smaller, or in bad condition, not luxury second homes in scenic locations, nor homes in locations with a lot of decent employment opportunities.
posted by Jane the Brown at 6:16 AM on January 20 [5 favorites]
In Newfoundland, yes, though certainly not a mc mansion.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:16 AM on January 20 [3 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:16 AM on January 20 [3 favorites]
A question - is 250K CAD enough to buy a house in Canada?
Probably in the Prairies still--Winnipeg still had reasonably affordable homes when we almost moved relocated there a couple of years ago--but anywhere else? Nope. I live in small city in Ontario and my home is now worth $650k, despite having bought it for $305k a decade ago.
posted by Kitteh at 6:17 AM on January 20 [1 favorite]
Probably in the Prairies still--Winnipeg still had reasonably affordable homes when we almost moved relocated there a couple of years ago--but anywhere else? Nope. I live in small city in Ontario and my home is now worth $650k, despite having bought it for $305k a decade ago.
posted by Kitteh at 6:17 AM on January 20 [1 favorite]
It strikes me that the failure to get a 75% threshold is the best possible result for the Newfoundland Government. It means they can much more readily let the community wash away when the port facilities are destroyed by rising sea levels, because they certainly won't need to give the residents another better offer after their community fails.
If they evacuate them and give them $30,000 per household to re-establish themselves, they can easily argue that the residents of the community had their chance already and rejected it, and suggest that the Red Cross might provide additional help but there isn't any more available from them.
posted by Jane the Brown at 6:25 AM on January 20 [3 favorites]
If they evacuate them and give them $30,000 per household to re-establish themselves, they can easily argue that the residents of the community had their chance already and rejected it, and suggest that the Red Cross might provide additional help but there isn't any more available from them.
posted by Jane the Brown at 6:25 AM on January 20 [3 favorites]
If this were the United States, they would build an LNG Export refinery there, on 700 acres
posted by eustatic at 6:28 AM on January 20
posted by eustatic at 6:28 AM on January 20
And build it below sea level, if possible
posted by eustatic at 6:29 AM on January 20 [1 favorite]
posted by eustatic at 6:29 AM on January 20 [1 favorite]
eustatic: If this were the United States, they would build an LNG Export refinery there, on 700 acres
In my post about Coastal Erosion in Eastern England last month, I learned about the 180 ac Bacton Gas Terminal, 30 min drive North of Hemsby. Whereas little can be done for the inhabitants of chalets in Hemsby, £5 million of tax payers money (25% of cost) was found to protect the Gas plant by beach enhancement. The citizens of Bacton and Walcott are collateral beneficiaries. Which may be the silver lining of having an industrial mega-complex plunked in their midst 50+ years ago.
posted by BobTheScientist at 8:46 AM on January 20 [1 favorite]
In my post about Coastal Erosion in Eastern England last month, I learned about the 180 ac Bacton Gas Terminal, 30 min drive North of Hemsby. Whereas little can be done for the inhabitants of chalets in Hemsby, £5 million of tax payers money (25% of cost) was found to protect the Gas plant by beach enhancement. The citizens of Bacton and Walcott are collateral beneficiaries. Which may be the silver lining of having an industrial mega-complex plunked in their midst 50+ years ago.
posted by BobTheScientist at 8:46 AM on January 20 [1 favorite]
I can't help but think about the evacuation of St Kilda in 1930, ending continuous human occupation dating back to the Iron Age. Not quite the same perhaps, but it's sad that there's not much room for insular communities except as seasonal playgrounds for the rich, even reasonably large ones.
posted by 1adam12 at 8:51 AM on January 20 [3 favorites]
posted by 1adam12 at 8:51 AM on January 20 [3 favorites]
"It strikes me that the failure to get a 75% threshold is the best possible result for the Newfoundland Government."
I suppose so, if you don't care about the humans.
posted by oddman at 9:18 AM on January 20 [2 favorites]
I suppose so, if you don't care about the humans.
posted by oddman at 9:18 AM on January 20 [2 favorites]
It's not though. Payback on the relocation is very short. They are likely to spend the entire sum before a forced relocation and then spend money on the unplanned relocation.
posted by Mitheral at 9:23 AM on January 20 [2 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 9:23 AM on January 20 [2 favorites]
There are certainly houses available for less than $250K but they will be older, or smaller, or in bad condition, not luxury second homes in scenic locations, nor homes in locations with a lot of decent employment opportunities.
You don't exactly need to buy a new house free and clear--it's a respectable down payment in most parts of North America--and, while it's hard to find exact numbers, $250K seems to exceed the value of the average home in Gaultois considerably.
It's a pretty good deal for land that's going to have to be abandoned at some point anyway.
posted by praemunire at 1:42 PM on January 20 [5 favorites]
You don't exactly need to buy a new house free and clear--it's a respectable down payment in most parts of North America--and, while it's hard to find exact numbers, $250K seems to exceed the value of the average home in Gaultois considerably.
It's a pretty good deal for land that's going to have to be abandoned at some point anyway.
posted by praemunire at 1:42 PM on January 20 [5 favorites]
It's always a question in relocation -- are people entitled to the fair value of their homes, or to the cost of obtaining reasonably equivalent replacement homes elsewhere. Which of those is seen as fair tends to depend on whether the affected people are seen as victims of some deliberate action (contamination, highway construction) or simply of circumstance.
From TFA it sounds like this situation could be viewed either way -- resettlement is for the provincial government's benefit, but only because economic circumstances outside the government's control have made the village unsustainable -- which could lead to reasonable disagreement over whether the compensation is fair .
posted by Not A Thing at 4:46 PM on January 20 [2 favorites]
From TFA it sounds like this situation could be viewed either way -- resettlement is for the provincial government's benefit, but only because economic circumstances outside the government's control have made the village unsustainable -- which could lead to reasonable disagreement over whether the compensation is fair .
posted by Not A Thing at 4:46 PM on January 20 [2 favorites]
It's pretty wild that the government is subsidizing the ferry service to the tune of $10,000 per resident per year. Seems pretty reasonable to say that the time has come.
This is Newfoundland, houses are quite cheap relative to the rest of Canada. $250k is nearly the median house price (which currently stands at $283k), so $250-$270k seems like a fairly good deal.
posted by ssg at 9:33 PM on January 20 [3 favorites]
This is Newfoundland, houses are quite cheap relative to the rest of Canada. $250k is nearly the median house price (which currently stands at $283k), so $250-$270k seems like a fairly good deal.
posted by ssg at 9:33 PM on January 20 [3 favorites]
The average house price in Canada is $655,507. The cheapest cities in Canada to buy a house in are Brandon, MB, with an average house price of $265,690, and Saint John, NB, with $297,400.
There are certainly houses available for less than $250K but they will be older, or smaller, or in bad condition, not luxury second homes in scenic locations, nor homes in locations with a lot of decent employment opportunities.
There are a lot of places in Newfoundland where $250,000 will buy you a decent full-sized home - maybe not St. John's unless you're willing to go condo, but Corner Brook, Mount Pearl, Grand Falls. All of the larger municipal areas other than St. John's, basically. And from the Newfoundland government's perspective, that's a win because you're concentrating people into municipal areas which makes services more cost-efficient.
posted by mightygodking at 1:48 AM on January 21 [3 favorites]
There are certainly houses available for less than $250K but they will be older, or smaller, or in bad condition, not luxury second homes in scenic locations, nor homes in locations with a lot of decent employment opportunities.
There are a lot of places in Newfoundland where $250,000 will buy you a decent full-sized home - maybe not St. John's unless you're willing to go condo, but Corner Brook, Mount Pearl, Grand Falls. All of the larger municipal areas other than St. John's, basically. And from the Newfoundland government's perspective, that's a win because you're concentrating people into municipal areas which makes services more cost-efficient.
posted by mightygodking at 1:48 AM on January 21 [3 favorites]
I did a search on Zillow and there are currently 32 houses for sale in St. John's, NL for $250k or less.
posted by joannemerriam at 7:09 PM on January 21 [1 favorite]
posted by joannemerriam at 7:09 PM on January 21 [1 favorite]
y, £5 million of tax payers money (25% of cost) was found to protect the Gas plant by beach enhancement. The citizens of Bacton and Walcott are collateral beneficiaries
In Louisuana, it is the opposite. The refinery is a beneficiary of the levee built as a post Katrina appropriation. Its levee was built to protect people, many of whom have been displaced by the LNG.
CoastL Gentrification, by the plantation owners
posted by eustatic at 6:04 PM on February 5
In Louisuana, it is the opposite. The refinery is a beneficiary of the levee built as a post Katrina appropriation. Its levee was built to protect people, many of whom have been displaced by the LNG.
CoastL Gentrification, by the plantation owners
posted by eustatic at 6:04 PM on February 5
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posted by thegirlwiththehat at 12:53 AM on January 20 [1 favorite]