A remarkably efficient way to reduce America’s international reach
February 3, 2024 1:34 AM Subscribe
The risk of Americans being held on spurious charges by a foreign government is now so widespread that the State Department warns U.S. citizens against traveling to countries accounting for nearly a quarter of the world’s population. In diplomatic parlance, those nine nations are classified “D” for the risk of detention. Classification D is America’s gathering new reality: an increasingly piratical global system where the taking and trading of foreign citizens—once the preserve of guerrilla bands or fundamentalist insurgencies—has become a tactic deployed by nuclear states. from How Snatching American Citizens Turned Into a Tool of Hostile Governments [WSJ; ungated]
I have it down to Fox "News" working out that you don't actually need to pay for foreign correspondents to get the populace riled up behind your fascist of choice, all you need is dipshits with weird heads shouting at them all day every day from every screen in every public place everywhere, plus a chyron.
posted by flabdablet at 3:25 AM on February 3 [3 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 3:25 AM on February 3 [3 favorites]
There are currently nineteen countries declared "Level 4 Do Not Travel" for U.S. citizens, and also a few special announcements for some destinations, including China, which has the D Detention warning flag.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories.html
Note that countries can be assigned a lower threat level but still contain advisories forbidding travel to specific regions.
Most of the countries with the D flag are at "Level 4 Do Not Travel" status. Many countries also have the K for Kidnapping warning flag... I went to the .gov site to try and find the nations mentioned in the article, and now I'm lost in the data....
posted by in_lieu_of_fiction at 3:26 AM on February 3 [4 favorites]
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories.html
Note that countries can be assigned a lower threat level but still contain advisories forbidding travel to specific regions.
Most of the countries with the D flag are at "Level 4 Do Not Travel" status. Many countries also have the K for Kidnapping warning flag... I went to the .gov site to try and find the nations mentioned in the article, and now I'm lost in the data....
posted by in_lieu_of_fiction at 3:26 AM on February 3 [4 favorites]
It would be helpful if we could manage to export a few hundred Proud Boys and other far right extremists to some of these countries.
posted by DJZouke at 5:02 AM on February 3 [6 favorites]
posted by DJZouke at 5:02 AM on February 3 [6 favorites]
The risk of Americans being held on spurious charges
Meanwhile, in Guantanamo...
posted by biffa at 5:06 AM on February 3 [32 favorites]
Meanwhile, in Guantanamo...
posted by biffa at 5:06 AM on February 3 [32 favorites]
There are currently nineteen countries declared "Level 4 Do Not Travel" for U.S. citizens, and also a few special announcements for some destinations, including China, which has the D Detention warning flag.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories.html
It's interesting to read the travel advisories for countries where I've lived. In one case the neighboring village to the one I had lived in is specifically called out in the "do not travel" list; when I lived there, there would have been no reason at all to list it, which makes me wonder if there was a specific incident (like a tourist being attacked) that later occurred there so it got listed. But a similar travel advisory for the country was in place when I lived there and largely it was irrelevant to actual life.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:19 AM on February 3 [6 favorites]
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories.html
It's interesting to read the travel advisories for countries where I've lived. In one case the neighboring village to the one I had lived in is specifically called out in the "do not travel" list; when I lived there, there would have been no reason at all to list it, which makes me wonder if there was a specific incident (like a tourist being attacked) that later occurred there so it got listed. But a similar travel advisory for the country was in place when I lived there and largely it was irrelevant to actual life.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:19 AM on February 3 [6 favorites]
The archive.is link isn't loading....the banner on the main article seems to show a lot of countries that the right-wing hates, and doesn't include any big surprises. Sure, it's problematic for US citizens to go to Iran, and almost certainly dangerous if you oppose the regime, but how is that any different today than it's been for forty years or more?
posted by gimonca at 6:29 AM on February 3 [2 favorites]
posted by gimonca at 6:29 AM on February 3 [2 favorites]
Official travel advisories tend to be way, way overblown and paranoid. France right now is set to "Exercise Increased Caution" by the U.S. State Department, which seems more like a standup comedy premise than a serious alert. It's not just the U.S. either: Canada, UK, Australia aren't much better.
I'm reminded of the travel posters in the movie "The Truman Show": IT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU.
posted by gimonca at 6:40 AM on February 3 [6 favorites]
I'm reminded of the travel posters in the movie "The Truman Show": IT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU.
posted by gimonca at 6:40 AM on February 3 [6 favorites]
The travel advisories are compelling reading. I get anxious driving across town, but spent the last, oh, 45 minutes reading various advisories. Not sure what that says about me.
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 6:46 AM on February 3 [1 favorite]
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 6:46 AM on February 3 [1 favorite]
Sure, it's problematic for US citizens to go to Iran, and almost certainly dangerous if you oppose the regime, but how is that any different today than it's been for forty years or more?
The major subtext from the article is Russia and China detaining journalists and CEOs respectively. I agree the examples are reprehensible but I also think the risk for the average person is pretty close to nil.
posted by q*ben at 7:06 AM on February 3 [4 favorites]
The major subtext from the article is Russia and China detaining journalists and CEOs respectively. I agree the examples are reprehensible but I also think the risk for the average person is pretty close to nil.
posted by q*ben at 7:06 AM on February 3 [4 favorites]
Like a random citizen travelling to Russia?
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 7:27 AM on February 3 [1 favorite]
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 7:27 AM on February 3 [1 favorite]
Where can I find travel advisories for states, regions, and towns within the USA?
I found the hard way that there is increased risk of being harassed by the people and detained by the police in some parts of the USA if you sound and look like me.
posted by Dr. Curare at 8:38 AM on February 3 [19 favorites]
I found the hard way that there is increased risk of being harassed by the people and detained by the police in some parts of the USA if you sound and look like me.
posted by Dr. Curare at 8:38 AM on February 3 [19 favorites]
Antarctica is at "Level 2: Exercise Increased Caution", but the travel advisory page is totally blank.
posted by Pyry at 9:07 AM on February 3 [4 favorites]
posted by Pyry at 9:07 AM on February 3 [4 favorites]
> how is that any different today than it's been for forty years or more
Pretty close to the worst times in that span. There used to be moderate amounts of exchange, especially via universities.
posted by constraint at 9:09 AM on February 3 [4 favorites]
Pretty close to the worst times in that span. There used to be moderate amounts of exchange, especially via universities.
posted by constraint at 9:09 AM on February 3 [4 favorites]
Where can I find travel advisories for states, regions, and towns within the USA?
Lots of countries have travel advisories for the US, including some that focus in on specific areas; here's a pretty typical round-up of some.
The Canadian travel warnings for the US read kind of oddly, including broad warnings about drug trafficking violence in TX, NM, AZ, and CA (i.e., four of the six largest states and totaling a significant percent of the land mass of the continental US), and with this warning on violent crime; the final sentence is almost certainly not correct:
Within large urban areas, violent crime more commonly occurs in poor neighbourhoods, particularly from dusk to dawn. It often involves intoxication. Incidents of violent crime are mainly carried out by gangs or members of organized crime groups but may also be perpetrated by lone individuals.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:15 AM on February 3 [4 favorites]
Lots of countries have travel advisories for the US, including some that focus in on specific areas; here's a pretty typical round-up of some.
The Canadian travel warnings for the US read kind of oddly, including broad warnings about drug trafficking violence in TX, NM, AZ, and CA (i.e., four of the six largest states and totaling a significant percent of the land mass of the continental US), and with this warning on violent crime; the final sentence is almost certainly not correct:
Within large urban areas, violent crime more commonly occurs in poor neighbourhoods, particularly from dusk to dawn. It often involves intoxication. Incidents of violent crime are mainly carried out by gangs or members of organized crime groups but may also be perpetrated by lone individuals.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:15 AM on February 3 [4 favorites]
I think these “abductor states” are actually desperate, weak and have been reduced to mob tactics. It's actually the opposite of an efficient method of reducing America's international power, it's fully acquiescing to the current international order and just abusing it. The US and its allies often abuse their dominance of the international system to also 'abduct' folks and even detain some of these people outside the legal system.
The primary difference is that the goal, generally, for western nations is not to use these people as bargaining chips or to fuel internal propaganda. Consider the relative cost, both in reputation and money, of keeping Gitmo running to any of its alternatives.
Recent history demonstrates how one sided the current international political situation is - the US invaded and destroyed Iraq essentially on a whim and a grudge. The US started a whole second war, and also continued military operations in dozens of other countries that are oceans and continents apart.
The US continued a campaign of extra-judicial executions via special operations in an unknown number of other countries. And it was the US that ushered the world into a new era of military operations with drone warfare.
In terms of international power dynamics I find Crimea and invasion of Ukraine relatively more of an issue than a relative increase of abductions of western citizens. India's extra-judicial assignations, Chinese control/spy network for its citizens abroad are also an increasing challenge for western nations, and ones that I think are more of an actual direct challenge to western power.
posted by zenon at 9:15 AM on February 3 [3 favorites]
The primary difference is that the goal, generally, for western nations is not to use these people as bargaining chips or to fuel internal propaganda. Consider the relative cost, both in reputation and money, of keeping Gitmo running to any of its alternatives.
Recent history demonstrates how one sided the current international political situation is - the US invaded and destroyed Iraq essentially on a whim and a grudge. The US started a whole second war, and also continued military operations in dozens of other countries that are oceans and continents apart.
The US continued a campaign of extra-judicial executions via special operations in an unknown number of other countries. And it was the US that ushered the world into a new era of military operations with drone warfare.
In terms of international power dynamics I find Crimea and invasion of Ukraine relatively more of an issue than a relative increase of abductions of western citizens. India's extra-judicial assignations, Chinese control/spy network for its citizens abroad are also an increasing challenge for western nations, and ones that I think are more of an actual direct challenge to western power.
posted by zenon at 9:15 AM on February 3 [3 favorites]
The major subtext from the article is Russia and China detaining journalists and CEOs respectively. I agree the examples are reprehensible but I also think the risk for the average person is pretty close to nil.
Do I still have a valid Russian visa? Yes. Will I ever use it in the future? Hell fucking no. Russian cops will happily sprinkle a little crack on you. Or just beat you up because, well, Russia. If you're an American in Russia right now, you're either on TV acting like a Tucker Carlson clone (they love him) or keeping your head down as much as humanly possible. It's bad.
China felt much safer as a foreigner, even though it's a literal surveillance state with a camera pointed at your face every five feet. The police were always friendly and helpful. The most attention I got was from little kids who'd never met an American before and wanted to say hi. They were delightful! Entering China is like stepping into an alternate reality, but you're invited.
That being said, China has so many people. There's a culture of if you want something, you gotta just take it, because if you don't then someone else will. There's also more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual "rules." It's an attitude that bubbles up to the top of China's government. So when I read about a Chinese official ignoring an international treaty, my first response is, "Yeah, that tracks."
posted by lock robster at 11:17 AM on February 3 [9 favorites]
Do I still have a valid Russian visa? Yes. Will I ever use it in the future? Hell fucking no. Russian cops will happily sprinkle a little crack on you. Or just beat you up because, well, Russia. If you're an American in Russia right now, you're either on TV acting like a Tucker Carlson clone (they love him) or keeping your head down as much as humanly possible. It's bad.
China felt much safer as a foreigner, even though it's a literal surveillance state with a camera pointed at your face every five feet. The police were always friendly and helpful. The most attention I got was from little kids who'd never met an American before and wanted to say hi. They were delightful! Entering China is like stepping into an alternate reality, but you're invited.
That being said, China has so many people. There's a culture of if you want something, you gotta just take it, because if you don't then someone else will. There's also more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual "rules." It's an attitude that bubbles up to the top of China's government. So when I read about a Chinese official ignoring an international treaty, my first response is, "Yeah, that tracks."
posted by lock robster at 11:17 AM on February 3 [9 favorites]
In all fairness, after the big Canadian 'two Michael's' scandal, it turned out one of them was passing on information to Canadian intelligence services. So that one wasn't really a kidnapping, even if for 2 years the government pretended it was. It was almost certainly retribution, but it also probably wasn't exactly the random kidnapping of a competely uninvolved, innocent individual.
posted by whm at 2:39 PM on February 3 [4 favorites]
posted by whm at 2:39 PM on February 3 [4 favorites]
Antarctica is at "Level 2: Exercise Increased Caution", but the travel advisory page is totally blank.
White-out conditions?
posted by TedW at 6:49 PM on February 3 [9 favorites]
White-out conditions?
posted by TedW at 6:49 PM on February 3 [9 favorites]
Oh, there are travel advisories within the US. The NAACP is another resource.
posted by tigrrrlily at 8:20 AM on February 4 [2 favorites]
posted by tigrrrlily at 8:20 AM on February 4 [2 favorites]
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posted by Literaryhero at 2:47 AM on February 3 [4 favorites]