Who told them to seek escapism instead of an escape?
February 27, 2024 6:02 AM Subscribe
The “Disney adult” industrial complex The grown-up Disney superfan has become a much-mocked phenomenon online. But creating these consumers was always part of the corporation’s plan.
An interesting read on consumerism that draws from Henry Giroux's The Mouse that Roared: Disney and the End of Innocence as well as interviews with Disney influencers.
Note: Please keep the discussion kind, as there are as many folks here that may fans of Disney as are critical of it (or both).
An interesting read on consumerism that draws from Henry Giroux's The Mouse that Roared: Disney and the End of Innocence as well as interviews with Disney influencers.
Note: Please keep the discussion kind, as there are as many folks here that may fans of Disney as are critical of it (or both).
One of my sisters is a Disney Adult, and so are two of our friends here in Philadelphia. It makes them happy! I'm not into it, but you know, who cares? If someone managed to create an entertainment empire based on Commodore 64s, Amigas, Danger Mouse and The Last Unicorn, I'd probably be a superfan of that.
In 2022, 2.2 million people watched a video of her breaking down in tears upon meeting a Goofy mascot at a Disney park – many commenters told her to “grow up”, but others told her she was “pure”.
I feel this. In 2013 I was at SuperCon in Orlando with MC Frontalot. The con was a mixture of comic books, nerdcore and wrestling. We were supposed to do a panel and walked into the room where we would talk. I looked up at the stage and saw a figure that I instantly recognized but couldn't believe was there. It was Sgt. Slaughter, in the flesh. I hadn't been a wrestling fan since I was a little kid and hadn't given him much thought in the interim, but it was like that scene in Ratatouille where Anton Ego takes a bite and all of a sudden is whisked back into his childhood. I was dumbstruck and kind of freaking out that this character from my childhood was now in the same room as me, in the same chair that I would soon be sitting in. Later, in the expo hall, I tried to get a photo with him but only his handler would talk to me and they didn't take cards and when I came back with $30 in cash they weren't there. The magic moment faded. Luckily we had shared pizza backstage with Hacksaw Jim Duggan earlier, so I went over to him and he was happy to take a snap with me for free.
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:29 AM on February 27 [21 favorites]
In 2022, 2.2 million people watched a video of her breaking down in tears upon meeting a Goofy mascot at a Disney park – many commenters told her to “grow up”, but others told her she was “pure”.
I feel this. In 2013 I was at SuperCon in Orlando with MC Frontalot. The con was a mixture of comic books, nerdcore and wrestling. We were supposed to do a panel and walked into the room where we would talk. I looked up at the stage and saw a figure that I instantly recognized but couldn't believe was there. It was Sgt. Slaughter, in the flesh. I hadn't been a wrestling fan since I was a little kid and hadn't given him much thought in the interim, but it was like that scene in Ratatouille where Anton Ego takes a bite and all of a sudden is whisked back into his childhood. I was dumbstruck and kind of freaking out that this character from my childhood was now in the same room as me, in the same chair that I would soon be sitting in. Later, in the expo hall, I tried to get a photo with him but only his handler would talk to me and they didn't take cards and when I came back with $30 in cash they weren't there. The magic moment faded. Luckily we had shared pizza backstage with Hacksaw Jim Duggan earlier, so I went over to him and he was happy to take a snap with me for free.
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:29 AM on February 27 [21 favorites]
Whether Disney adults are embarrassing or enchanting is largely a matter of opinion.
I know some people who are Disney Adults and go there fairly frequently. They love it and are self-aware of why others might find it embarrassing. What I hadn't known (as someone who has never been to a Disney park in my life) until they explained it is that you can have a very adult vacation there, sort of in parallel to all the families with kids that are there. It's not my thing at all, but they enjoy it and it isn't hurting anything other than their bank accounts, so I don't see any need to criticize. I don't get the appeal, but that's true of lots of things that for whatever reason I don't have any connection to.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:32 AM on February 27 [14 favorites]
I know some people who are Disney Adults and go there fairly frequently. They love it and are self-aware of why others might find it embarrassing. What I hadn't known (as someone who has never been to a Disney park in my life) until they explained it is that you can have a very adult vacation there, sort of in parallel to all the families with kids that are there. It's not my thing at all, but they enjoy it and it isn't hurting anything other than their bank accounts, so I don't see any need to criticize. I don't get the appeal, but that's true of lots of things that for whatever reason I don't have any connection to.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:32 AM on February 27 [14 favorites]
I mean, isn't this the aim of any pop-culture media machine? Star Wars? Marvel? Even before their Disney acquisitions, they were both earnestly working to convert their childhood fans into adult fans, with great success, too.
Then, there's the whole Nintendo universe. I see far more adults playing Mario Kart than I do kids.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:34 AM on February 27 [6 favorites]
Then, there's the whole Nintendo universe. I see far more adults playing Mario Kart than I do kids.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:34 AM on February 27 [6 favorites]
Yeah I can't really mock Disney Adults because I'm a Nintendo Adult
posted by Doleful Creature at 6:38 AM on February 27 [29 favorites]
posted by Doleful Creature at 6:38 AM on February 27 [29 favorites]
The Disney critique video genre is something I enjoy on YouTube. A recent video featured observations that the tickets etc were so expensive yet the park was so crowded.
50,000 people (50% capacity) is a crowd, 365 days a year = 18M visitors per year, that's 0.2% of the global population able to visit 1 day a year . . . of course Disney is going to raise prices to the market-clearing price.
Glad I got to see Disneyland during GradNight in the mid-80s, that was the best time to go I guess.
posted by torokunai at 6:40 AM on February 27 [4 favorites]
50,000 people (50% capacity) is a crowd, 365 days a year = 18M visitors per year, that's 0.2% of the global population able to visit 1 day a year . . . of course Disney is going to raise prices to the market-clearing price.
Glad I got to see Disneyland during GradNight in the mid-80s, that was the best time to go I guess.
posted by torokunai at 6:40 AM on February 27 [4 favorites]
I believe the Disney Adult demographic has broken the supply/demand curve in the parks. This graph is pretty well shared and shows that the price of visiting the park has blown way past inflation, yet they're all still at full capacity for way longer than it used to be normal.
In my view this means you have a generation, if not multiple generations, of visitors that will literally pay any price to be in those theme parks.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:03 AM on February 27 [11 favorites]
In my view this means you have a generation, if not multiple generations, of visitors that will literally pay any price to be in those theme parks.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:03 AM on February 27 [11 favorites]
Disney for decades has had a hard lock on the science of delivering the least amount of genuine excitement necessary to offset the real hassle, tedium and expense of the parks. The media properties build that "i will see it in person" anticipation to a height, making you appreciate the tiny dose you do get all the more. Jacking up the prices to make a park visit not a regular occurrence but a once-in-a-lifetime aspiration helps the phenomenon. It is masterful. And appalling.
When we went to parks regularly, living in South Florida, Disney was always the bottom of the list for all of us for overall enjoyment vs expense. But the kids wanted to see the media properties, so what do you do. You take them. Then you go to Six Flags or Universal and have some actual fun.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:04 AM on February 27 [8 favorites]
When we went to parks regularly, living in South Florida, Disney was always the bottom of the list for all of us for overall enjoyment vs expense. But the kids wanted to see the media properties, so what do you do. You take them. Then you go to Six Flags or Universal and have some actual fun.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:04 AM on February 27 [8 favorites]
I believe the Disney Adult demographic has broken the supply/demand curve in the parks. This graph is pretty well shared and shows that the price of visiting the park has blown way past inflation, yet they're all still at full capacity for way longer than it used to be normal.
In my view this means you have a generation, if not multiple generations, of visitors that will literally pay any price to be in those theme parks.
At least for the people I know who go, they are successful professionals with disposable income. The gate fees are kind of irrelevant, plus they pay extra to avoid lines and so on. I'm sure there's a price point at which they would balk, but it is well above whatever the current prices are.
For the people with kids I know who have gone in the past few years, it's more of a "save up the vacation budget for two or three years" thing, so again they are willing to pay high costs, but the high costs mean they go very infrequently.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:09 AM on February 27
In my view this means you have a generation, if not multiple generations, of visitors that will literally pay any price to be in those theme parks.
At least for the people I know who go, they are successful professionals with disposable income. The gate fees are kind of irrelevant, plus they pay extra to avoid lines and so on. I'm sure there's a price point at which they would balk, but it is well above whatever the current prices are.
For the people with kids I know who have gone in the past few years, it's more of a "save up the vacation budget for two or three years" thing, so again they are willing to pay high costs, but the high costs mean they go very infrequently.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:09 AM on February 27
I'm a middle-aged man and I collect and read Carl Barks' and Don Rosa's Uncle Scrooge and Donald Duck comics. Dunno if that makes me a "Disney Adult", but if it does I don't care. Those are damn good comics.
posted by fimbulvetr at 7:16 AM on February 27 [14 favorites]
posted by fimbulvetr at 7:16 AM on February 27 [14 favorites]
Oh man, this topic. Don't miss Disney Weddings, including the Disney bridal gowns and Cinderella's Coach.
I myself (irony: see below) am a graduate of the Disney Institute's on-demand courses for Customer Service and Employee Engagement, both of which were darkly fascinating (and did inform some of the work I was doing at the time; my boss signed me up for them.) My cousin completed an internship at Disney University.
My mother, a Boomer, is an OG Disney adult - we went to Disney World frequently growing up, and had all the songs from the original animated films memorized as well as the Mickey's Clubhouse theme and a whole bunch of things. She hand quilted a Mickey Mouse print quilt for my toddler bed.
As grown Boomers, my parents love cruises and investigated the possibility of retiring to Celebration, Florida. I am not a Disney adult, and actually have avoided Disney World/Land trips although my husband is at a conference there right now.
I do believe that my parents' belief in Disney is their share of a societal cancer. They are both, particularly my dad, people who want to do good in the world and to believe in good in the world. And they both consistently share a belief that "good" means clean, bright, happy, and unambiguous - not just externally, but that is how they want to feel. They want to feel happy. (I myself would divorce their 'happy' from my 'joy.')
They have accumulated a good deal of wealth, much of it generational and some of it through real estate, and they spend it on creating and maintaining those experiences for themselves. Their tolerance for their kids being "not perfect" is very thin. I believe that the sanitized experience they have in their minds (I could go on at length but won't) is a direct result of both the 1950s and the marketing born of the 1950s, which is also expressed in evangelical prosperity gospel (which they don't follow, but their religious views have some flavour of it.)
While I think there's a significant difference in degree between benign fandom and my mother, I also feel like I lived some of the darkest expression of the Disney marketing funnel and also the down side of escapist fandom. Because my mum suffers from mental health issues, it was pretty extreme. The soundtrack to her being unwell are branded on my brain - Whistle While You Work, the Bare Necessities, Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo...these were the songs that heralded the start of a Really Bad Time, because if my sister and I were messy or god forbid, sick, or didn't wear pretty dresses during those times, we got hell for it. Because somewhere in my mother's brain, I truly believe, is a sense that if the world is NOT like a Disney experience, someone, somewhere is Wrong and Bad.
I do draw a line from this to the rise of populist politics, but I am hardly unbiased.
Anyways, for me...the drive to engage in Disney really is about flattening human experience. It's going from Grimm's Fairy Tales to Disney's versions; for a long time it was about eliminating diversity even if this is improving some. It's about no garbage and cheery greeters. I don't judge people for wanting to vacation there, but I seriously worry about people who want to live there.
This graph is pretty well shared and shows that the price of visiting the park has blown way past inflation, yet they're all still at full capacity for way longer than it used to be normal.
I think Disney has been pivoting to a higher-end market for a long time.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:20 AM on February 27 [47 favorites]
I myself (irony: see below) am a graduate of the Disney Institute's on-demand courses for Customer Service and Employee Engagement, both of which were darkly fascinating (and did inform some of the work I was doing at the time; my boss signed me up for them.) My cousin completed an internship at Disney University.
My mother, a Boomer, is an OG Disney adult - we went to Disney World frequently growing up, and had all the songs from the original animated films memorized as well as the Mickey's Clubhouse theme and a whole bunch of things. She hand quilted a Mickey Mouse print quilt for my toddler bed.
As grown Boomers, my parents love cruises and investigated the possibility of retiring to Celebration, Florida. I am not a Disney adult, and actually have avoided Disney World/Land trips although my husband is at a conference there right now.
I do believe that my parents' belief in Disney is their share of a societal cancer. They are both, particularly my dad, people who want to do good in the world and to believe in good in the world. And they both consistently share a belief that "good" means clean, bright, happy, and unambiguous - not just externally, but that is how they want to feel. They want to feel happy. (I myself would divorce their 'happy' from my 'joy.')
They have accumulated a good deal of wealth, much of it generational and some of it through real estate, and they spend it on creating and maintaining those experiences for themselves. Their tolerance for their kids being "not perfect" is very thin. I believe that the sanitized experience they have in their minds (I could go on at length but won't) is a direct result of both the 1950s and the marketing born of the 1950s, which is also expressed in evangelical prosperity gospel (which they don't follow, but their religious views have some flavour of it.)
While I think there's a significant difference in degree between benign fandom and my mother, I also feel like I lived some of the darkest expression of the Disney marketing funnel and also the down side of escapist fandom. Because my mum suffers from mental health issues, it was pretty extreme. The soundtrack to her being unwell are branded on my brain - Whistle While You Work, the Bare Necessities, Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo...these were the songs that heralded the start of a Really Bad Time, because if my sister and I were messy or god forbid, sick, or didn't wear pretty dresses during those times, we got hell for it. Because somewhere in my mother's brain, I truly believe, is a sense that if the world is NOT like a Disney experience, someone, somewhere is Wrong and Bad.
I do draw a line from this to the rise of populist politics, but I am hardly unbiased.
Anyways, for me...the drive to engage in Disney really is about flattening human experience. It's going from Grimm's Fairy Tales to Disney's versions; for a long time it was about eliminating diversity even if this is improving some. It's about no garbage and cheery greeters. I don't judge people for wanting to vacation there, but I seriously worry about people who want to live there.
This graph is pretty well shared and shows that the price of visiting the park has blown way past inflation, yet they're all still at full capacity for way longer than it used to be normal.
I think Disney has been pivoting to a higher-end market for a long time.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:20 AM on February 27 [47 favorites]
We went to Disney Sea in Tokyo last summer and it was excellent.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:20 AM on February 27 [1 favorite]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:20 AM on February 27 [1 favorite]
When we went to parks regularly, living in South Florida, Disney was always the bottom of the list for all of us for overall enjoyment vs expense. But the kids wanted to see the media properties, so what do you do. You take them. Then you go to Six Flags or Universal and have some actual fun.
Huh... in my experience, growing up in the 70s-80s in Florida, Disney World / EPCOT and Busch Gardens were the good parks. I don't much recall Six Flags in Atlanta, but the times I've visited the one in St. Louis as an adult it was kind of a dump in terms of maintenance, cleanliness, accessibility etc.
You couldn't drag me to a Disney park today unless it was some limited-access special event and paid for by somebody else. I'd like to see the Star Wars area once and I'm always down to ride Space Mountain. But the extreme price hikes, the app BS with reserved times for rides and paying extra to skip in line, etc. and just dealing with big crowds in general as an adult would sour the entire thing for me. (Not to mention... Florida. I don't ever want to go back, especially not under the DeSantis regime.)
posted by Foosnark at 7:22 AM on February 27 [4 favorites]
Huh... in my experience, growing up in the 70s-80s in Florida, Disney World / EPCOT and Busch Gardens were the good parks. I don't much recall Six Flags in Atlanta, but the times I've visited the one in St. Louis as an adult it was kind of a dump in terms of maintenance, cleanliness, accessibility etc.
You couldn't drag me to a Disney park today unless it was some limited-access special event and paid for by somebody else. I'd like to see the Star Wars area once and I'm always down to ride Space Mountain. But the extreme price hikes, the app BS with reserved times for rides and paying extra to skip in line, etc. and just dealing with big crowds in general as an adult would sour the entire thing for me. (Not to mention... Florida. I don't ever want to go back, especially not under the DeSantis regime.)
posted by Foosnark at 7:22 AM on February 27 [4 favorites]
This graph is pretty well shared and shows that the price of visiting the park has blown way past inflation...
That's a pretty silly comparison, though. Disney is continually growing, updating, and improving the parks, and probably needs to charge more than the rate of inflation in order to fund R&D, etc. for the parks. That level of reinvestment is not generally found in the areas of rent, wages, petrol, etc.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:24 AM on February 27 [1 favorite]
That's a pretty silly comparison, though. Disney is continually growing, updating, and improving the parks, and probably needs to charge more than the rate of inflation in order to fund R&D, etc. for the parks. That level of reinvestment is not generally found in the areas of rent, wages, petrol, etc.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:24 AM on February 27 [1 favorite]
True, and the other data point missing is the price of on-park accommodations and dining. Disney, at least in the Florida complex, did an incredible job of expanding room count in every possible trim level to capture more money than the theme park admission ever could.
The Galactic Starcruiser might have been their bridge too far, though. Lots of analysis about that one but when it was first proposed you had this idea that Disney saw a huge new market in immersive experiences. It's just incredibly expensive to run and maintain.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:32 AM on February 27
The Galactic Starcruiser might have been their bridge too far, though. Lots of analysis about that one but when it was first proposed you had this idea that Disney saw a huge new market in immersive experiences. It's just incredibly expensive to run and maintain.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:32 AM on February 27
The only thing I've ever wanted to do at amusement parks is ride my favorite rides as many times as possible. I've never wanted to meet characters or see a show or absorb a vibe. Disney is inescapable but I never found the "world" dreamed up by Walt very interesting.
Our local Six Flags was seedy and grimy in comparison, but you could ride the same coaster 10 times and do nothing else if you wanted to and that was always ok with me.
I worked with a Disney Adult and she struck me as someone who needed that feeling of safety that the park experience gave her. She'd been raised pretty sheltered and conservative and didn't do well with complexity. I didn't respect that then, but I can see now how someone might need that comfort for lots of reasons. Life is hard and we all need comforts. But I do feel weird about a giant megacorp benefitting so much from that need.
posted by emjaybee at 7:33 AM on February 27 [14 favorites]
Our local Six Flags was seedy and grimy in comparison, but you could ride the same coaster 10 times and do nothing else if you wanted to and that was always ok with me.
I worked with a Disney Adult and she struck me as someone who needed that feeling of safety that the park experience gave her. She'd been raised pretty sheltered and conservative and didn't do well with complexity. I didn't respect that then, but I can see now how someone might need that comfort for lots of reasons. Life is hard and we all need comforts. But I do feel weird about a giant megacorp benefitting so much from that need.
posted by emjaybee at 7:33 AM on February 27 [14 favorites]
It's not exactly surprising that the Disney corporation has cultivated the creation of Disney Adults. If you sell merchandise to children, the child is almost never the primary consumer. If you want to maximize "share of wallet" in marketing-speak terms, you always go after the parents, because they have the bigger bankroll. What's the best way to maximize your share of wallet with parents and other people who may be parents someday? It's simple. You create an adult constituency that has almost zero sales resistance to your product, which means that their kids will also be raised on the same product. That's why we have Disney adults.
posted by jonp72 at 7:44 AM on February 27 [4 favorites]
posted by jonp72 at 7:44 AM on February 27 [4 favorites]
I don't identify as a Disney Adult but probably people in my life would call me one. I was definitely one - well, at least a "Disneyland Adult" - before I had kids. I've never really been a collector but I did love spending time in the parks. Now that I do have kids, it just kinda feels like part of the job, and while I'm at the parks it's not so relaxing because I'm primarily focused on their good time and not my own. Plus, the parks are objectively so much more work and stress than they used to be - you have to reserve dining months in advance, you're constantly on the fucking app trying to get your passes, etc. You can't just show up with your cash and no planning and have a good time if you're paying to have a whole family there.
I grew up in southern California and Disneyland was always my happy place. I had a ton of formative experiences in the parks and spent a lot of time with people I loved there over the years. It's as simple as that. I have a terrible sense of direction but I'm never lost there. The place gets entwined in your memories. Most of the Disney dorks I've met since I moved to the Seattle area are people who used to live in southern California.
posted by potrzebie at 7:55 AM on February 27 [3 favorites]
I grew up in southern California and Disneyland was always my happy place. I had a ton of formative experiences in the parks and spent a lot of time with people I loved there over the years. It's as simple as that. I have a terrible sense of direction but I'm never lost there. The place gets entwined in your memories. Most of the Disney dorks I've met since I moved to the Seattle area are people who used to live in southern California.
posted by potrzebie at 7:55 AM on February 27 [3 favorites]
I've been to Disneyland once as an adult, shortly before the 2016 Presidential election. It was a family trip organized by my sister, and I went because it was an opportunity to have the entire family (our parents, my siblings and I and their kids and partners) go somewhere together for what turned out to be the last time. I...didn't hate it is the best I can say, but I'll never go back. The old-style Fast Passes were still in effect, and I was impressed by how efficient they (along with an app my sister had which listed lineup times) made the experience of getting around the place and choosing which rides to go on and when (I don't think we waited in line longer than 45 minutes for anything, and most of the wait times were under half that), but the Disney Experience (and theme/amusement parks in general) are just not my thing anymore, and while I liked some of the movies and whatnot I was never a Disney Kid.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:56 AM on February 27 [3 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:56 AM on February 27 [3 favorites]
The thing that really made me understand the Disney Adult worldview was something different from my own was when I was researching a visit to Disneyland Paris. The big US based Disney blogs and guides would all have a sidebar encouraging their readers to take a daytrip to actual Paris during your weeklong stay at the park, explaining how close the park was to the city and how many cool things there were to see and do.
The idea that someone from the US would fly into de Gaulle, take the train straight to Disneyland, and then just stay in the park was so foreign to me. My last two trips to a Disney park have a been a 1 day visit during a larger trip to LA or Paris. I'd love to visit Tokyo Disney, but only in the context of a trip to Tokyo not just for the Disney park. I just can't imagine flying to Paris to eat at a Ratatouille themed Disney restaurant instead of actual Parisian bistro or taking photos in front of the Disney castle instead of going to an actual palace. But there are clearly people out that who prefer the corporate facsimile to the real even when both are literally side by side.
(and a quick aside - my browser's grammar helper really wants me to capitalize the P in "Disney park" - Disney's marketing reach even goes into spell checkers.)
posted by thecjm at 8:20 AM on February 27 [17 favorites]
The idea that someone from the US would fly into de Gaulle, take the train straight to Disneyland, and then just stay in the park was so foreign to me. My last two trips to a Disney park have a been a 1 day visit during a larger trip to LA or Paris. I'd love to visit Tokyo Disney, but only in the context of a trip to Tokyo not just for the Disney park. I just can't imagine flying to Paris to eat at a Ratatouille themed Disney restaurant instead of actual Parisian bistro or taking photos in front of the Disney castle instead of going to an actual palace. But there are clearly people out that who prefer the corporate facsimile to the real even when both are literally side by side.
(and a quick aside - my browser's grammar helper really wants me to capitalize the P in "Disney park" - Disney's marketing reach even goes into spell checkers.)
posted by thecjm at 8:20 AM on February 27 [17 favorites]
I used to work with a woman whose family were dedicated Disney park goers, because her brother has Down Syndrome and Disney was a super accessible experience for him. She's also in some ways what you'd expect from a Disney adult (a blonde evangelical beauty queen), but the specific reason her family ended up there was interesting to me.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:26 AM on February 27 [10 favorites]
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:26 AM on February 27 [10 favorites]
I'd love to visit Tokyo Disney, but only in the context of a trip to Tokyo not just for the Disney park.
That's what we did. Sixteen days in Japan overall, but just the one at Disney. The parks there are much more reasonably priced, about a third of what Disney World charges, by way of comparison.
We also opted for DisneySea over Disneyland. If I was gonna indulge the kiddo with a theme park, I strongly preferred the weird, imaginative, theme park deisgners gone wild vibe of Disney Sea to just another Disney park. A Jules Verne themed island? Yes, please. 1920's NYC style harbor? Sure! Retro-futurist harbor? Cool. Mini-Venice? Yes, let's do that.
If you're not familiar with DisneySea, check it out on YT or via pictures. The entire place is themed and there's a lot of imagination involved that has little to nothing to do with Disney IP.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:30 AM on February 27 [12 favorites]
That's what we did. Sixteen days in Japan overall, but just the one at Disney. The parks there are much more reasonably priced, about a third of what Disney World charges, by way of comparison.
We also opted for DisneySea over Disneyland. If I was gonna indulge the kiddo with a theme park, I strongly preferred the weird, imaginative, theme park deisgners gone wild vibe of Disney Sea to just another Disney park. A Jules Verne themed island? Yes, please. 1920's NYC style harbor? Sure! Retro-futurist harbor? Cool. Mini-Venice? Yes, let's do that.
If you're not familiar with DisneySea, check it out on YT or via pictures. The entire place is themed and there's a lot of imagination involved that has little to nothing to do with Disney IP.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:30 AM on February 27 [12 favorites]
Thanks; I was just about to bring that up. I've never been a fan of Disney, but now that I've been to the parks a few times I've been deeply impressed with how much work they put into making sure that kids and adults with challenges can have a great time. This goes all the way from mobility issues to even little things like food allergies-- you can go up to a pretzel stand and they'll have a chart of potential allergens. They didn't need to go as hard on this as they did, and it's really fantastic.
(What really reconciled me to the parks, though, was the robots. They build fantastic, rock-solid robots that operate nearly around the clock, and it's just nuts what they've pulled off in terms of expressiveness and materials. Much respect to Disney's roboticists, and if they replace DeSantis with a robotic double I don't think anyone will be mad.)
also it was too expensive but RIP Galactic Starcruiser, you were too crazy to live but too young to die
posted by phooky at 8:38 AM on February 27 [10 favorites]
(What really reconciled me to the parks, though, was the robots. They build fantastic, rock-solid robots that operate nearly around the clock, and it's just nuts what they've pulled off in terms of expressiveness and materials. Much respect to Disney's roboticists, and if they replace DeSantis with a robotic double I don't think anyone will be mad.)
also it was too expensive but RIP Galactic Starcruiser, you were too crazy to live but too young to die
posted by phooky at 8:38 AM on February 27 [10 favorites]
I've got friends who are Disney adults. They have a time share, and at least used to go every year. Often, they'd take another family with them for company, and to help hold down expenses. Parts were programmed so we'd hit highlights. (We had an early dinner at the Brown Derby to get guaranteed seating at Fantasmic, and dinner at the Contemporary resort's rooftop restaurant to so we could watch the fireworks from there. ) It was a lot of fun.
posted by Spike Glee at 9:01 AM on February 27
posted by Spike Glee at 9:01 AM on February 27
Whenever others disappointed him, I once knew a guy who'd start talking about about the cleanliness of bathrooms at Walt Disney World and how nobody cuts corners there because the whole park is so highly organized and efficiently run and they expect nothing less than everyone giving 100%, even the minimium-wage janitors working in the bathrooms.
This guy was exactly as conservative as you're imagining him to be. He also always took his family to the park for an annual vacation.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:07 AM on February 27 [9 favorites]
This guy was exactly as conservative as you're imagining him to be. He also always took his family to the park for an annual vacation.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:07 AM on February 27 [9 favorites]
My dad's cousin and her (now ex-) husband were Disney Adults (timeshare with multiple trips a year, home decor, clothing, gifts). They had kids late in life and at least one of them is also a Disney Adult. Not sure if the cousin and her ex are still Disney Adults. But their kid honeymooned at Disney and had Disney-themed baby announcement photos, so they certainly fit that '90s Disney Adults creating the next generation. In each couple, a lot of the Disney Adult-ness came from one person in the couple; I don't know how much the other was/is an active and enthusiastic participant or more in a supportive (or not) on the sidelines kind of role.
As a kid, we watched Disney movies, had some Disney stuff, much of it from that cousin, and we went to Disney World twice. We camped at their campground, so in a lot of ways, it felt a lot like other vacations we took. But one of us can still get the whole family riled up singing something from hoop-de-doo more than 2 decades later, so it definitely made its mark, just not one that created Disney Adults out of any of us.
posted by carrioncomfort at 9:11 AM on February 27
As a kid, we watched Disney movies, had some Disney stuff, much of it from that cousin, and we went to Disney World twice. We camped at their campground, so in a lot of ways, it felt a lot like other vacations we took. But one of us can still get the whole family riled up singing something from hoop-de-doo more than 2 decades later, so it definitely made its mark, just not one that created Disney Adults out of any of us.
posted by carrioncomfort at 9:11 AM on February 27
I'm not a Disney Adult, and not a huge fan of Disney to begin with -- as an animation fan, I respect their place in animation history, and some of their triumphs are fantastic films, and it doesn't hurt that I grew up during the Disney Renaissance. My friend introduced my partner to some Disney YouTubers, so we watch them a lot. Some of them are silly, some of them have found their passion and get to engage in that every day as a living, and some of them are Disney's biggest critics.
But in terms of theme parks, I think they're the best in the industry. They're Very Good at what they do. I grew up going to Six Flags, even had season passes for a while. And I had fun! But having been to Disneyland in November, I can see where the polish goes. They don't have The Screaming Eagle, but Pirates of the Caribbean and Rise of the Resistance are masterpieces.
I don't particularly like Disney as a company; they're greedy, they've fucked up the US copyright system, and more and more they feel like they don't understand what has made them successful in the past. And that's not to mention how horribly they pay their staff in the parks. One of the streamers we watch used to be a Cast Member, and she mentioned that it's very, very hard to work at the parks and make a solid living. Most of the people working there, she said, work two jobs. And to me, that's inexcusable.
One of the criticisms I see a lot of from the YouTubers is that Disney keeps giving less and less for the price, taking more and more from the Experience that makes it all special. It's corporate greed and lack of long term planning. The more they raise their prices and nickel and dime their customers, the more those customers resent it. And that's going to be an issue they need to deal with or they risk losing a significant base (I'm sure they're not really worried).
Also, for what it's worth, Tokyo Disney is a franchise, licensed by the Oriental Land Company, which is why their Disneyland and Disney Sea operate the way they do, and why they get to make super cool stuff we'll never have. Consensus by those who have been seem to be that Disney Sea is the best theme park in the world. I'd love to see it some day.
posted by gc at 9:18 AM on February 27 [8 favorites]
But in terms of theme parks, I think they're the best in the industry. They're Very Good at what they do. I grew up going to Six Flags, even had season passes for a while. And I had fun! But having been to Disneyland in November, I can see where the polish goes. They don't have The Screaming Eagle, but Pirates of the Caribbean and Rise of the Resistance are masterpieces.
I don't particularly like Disney as a company; they're greedy, they've fucked up the US copyright system, and more and more they feel like they don't understand what has made them successful in the past. And that's not to mention how horribly they pay their staff in the parks. One of the streamers we watch used to be a Cast Member, and she mentioned that it's very, very hard to work at the parks and make a solid living. Most of the people working there, she said, work two jobs. And to me, that's inexcusable.
One of the criticisms I see a lot of from the YouTubers is that Disney keeps giving less and less for the price, taking more and more from the Experience that makes it all special. It's corporate greed and lack of long term planning. The more they raise their prices and nickel and dime their customers, the more those customers resent it. And that's going to be an issue they need to deal with or they risk losing a significant base (I'm sure they're not really worried).
Also, for what it's worth, Tokyo Disney is a franchise, licensed by the Oriental Land Company, which is why their Disneyland and Disney Sea operate the way they do, and why they get to make super cool stuff we'll never have. Consensus by those who have been seem to be that Disney Sea is the best theme park in the world. I'd love to see it some day.
posted by gc at 9:18 AM on February 27 [8 favorites]
If you have two hours to spare, or can stand watching at 1.75x speed, Defunctland's video on Fastpass is a fun watch.
Bonus: I was one of the underqualified, fly-by-night contractors he mentions that worked on the mobile app! (The problem wasn't actually the contractors. Disney isn't a web technology company, and doesn't know how to scale web services. Plus, they totally overhired for the apps. Organizing teams of hundreds that should have been teams of tens was, and might still be a problem there)
I'll say that being in the parks for free was a blast though. Your FTE orientation allows you to just hang out for a day and wander. You're also at the same orientation as janitors and actors in the shows, so rubbing elbows with people making just above minimum wage (and working harder than you are for it) while you're a webdev is a humbling experience.
posted by fnerg at 9:43 AM on February 27 [5 favorites]
Bonus: I was one of the underqualified, fly-by-night contractors he mentions that worked on the mobile app! (The problem wasn't actually the contractors. Disney isn't a web technology company, and doesn't know how to scale web services. Plus, they totally overhired for the apps. Organizing teams of hundreds that should have been teams of tens was, and might still be a problem there)
I'll say that being in the parks for free was a blast though. Your FTE orientation allows you to just hang out for a day and wander. You're also at the same orientation as janitors and actors in the shows, so rubbing elbows with people making just above minimum wage (and working harder than you are for it) while you're a webdev is a humbling experience.
posted by fnerg at 9:43 AM on February 27 [5 favorites]
I love Disney Adults because it is behind them that I hide my Adult Fan of LEGO sweater jacket.
posted by MonsieurPEB at 9:52 AM on February 27 [9 favorites]
posted by MonsieurPEB at 9:52 AM on February 27 [9 favorites]
If you're not familiar with DisneySea, check it out on YT .
Tokyo DisneySeas is considered by many to be the best themed entertainment area/park/attraction in the world. I'm not a Disney Adult but I do appreciate the design and implementation of themed, immersive worlds.
posted by mmascolino at 10:23 AM on February 27
Tokyo DisneySeas is considered by many to be the best themed entertainment area/park/attraction in the world. I'm not a Disney Adult but I do appreciate the design and implementation of themed, immersive worlds.
posted by mmascolino at 10:23 AM on February 27
You take them. Then you go to Six Flags or Universal and have some actual fun
I'm gonna guess you're a rides person. I used to be a rides person too. But I'm older and the novelty has worn off, and my patience for waiting in 45 minute lines for a 2 minute experience has grown thin.
I didn't really think I had any desire to go to Disney World, but I went with my husband (who has a weak stomach and was NEVER a rides person) and my two kids who were, at the time, too young to want to go on most of the big rides. We did a few of them (and, thanks to the app, completely skipped the lines), and mostly filled our day with other things... And I can say the non-rides stuff is the stuff Disney excels at.
We saw parades. Multiple parades per day with, like, Broadway production values! The costumes, the floats, the giant animated dragon!
We ate at restaurants, where the food was fine I guess, but the service was great and the atmosphere was an experience in itself. Especially in Epcot, where we ate in "Germany" and ended up clapping along to the live music in spite of ourselves.
We saw weirdly charming animatronic shows, a documentary about Walt himself in a museum featuring his original weirdly charming animatronic puppet things, and a Donald Duck cartoon with truly amazing 3D effects.
We saw death defying stunt shows, and awesome live theater. (Beauty and the Beast, and songs from the Lion King produced with stagecraft rivaling Taylor Swift.)
We saw live lions and zebras and gorillas and giraffes. We wandered through magical man-made landscapes with waterfalls and giant trees and, of course, castles. We met a couple of Princesses, who charmed the kids.
Oh, and we met Darth Vader and built our own droids.
And we tried on funny hats, and bought a couple of them, and some stuffed animals, and some T-shirts FOR the stuffed animals, because we were just enjoying shopping.
Then we watched fireworks, and they were the best fireworks I've ever seen. The first couple of nights, we stayed on the property, and could see the Magic Kingdom ones from our room, over the lagoon. Then we moved off site (to save money!) and had to stay late at Epcot to catch them, and it was fricking psychedelic.
The kids were never bored. The adults were never bored. Everything was beautiful, and thanks to the planning I put in with the app and reservations and whatnot, mostly felt effortless. Experiencing joy with my children like that was worth the ridiculous price, I'd have to say. I'd do it more often if I could afford to.
If Walt Disney's goal was to create stuff that kids and adults could both enjoy (as the documentary claimed), I think he succeeded. The rides were, like 2% of the experience. I don't know of anywhere else I can experience the rest of that stuff, at least not all together like that.
I wasn't a Disney Adult before, but maybe I am now? I don't know. I guess I can say I kinda get it, at least.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:36 AM on February 27 [24 favorites]
I'm gonna guess you're a rides person. I used to be a rides person too. But I'm older and the novelty has worn off, and my patience for waiting in 45 minute lines for a 2 minute experience has grown thin.
I didn't really think I had any desire to go to Disney World, but I went with my husband (who has a weak stomach and was NEVER a rides person) and my two kids who were, at the time, too young to want to go on most of the big rides. We did a few of them (and, thanks to the app, completely skipped the lines), and mostly filled our day with other things... And I can say the non-rides stuff is the stuff Disney excels at.
We saw parades. Multiple parades per day with, like, Broadway production values! The costumes, the floats, the giant animated dragon!
We ate at restaurants, where the food was fine I guess, but the service was great and the atmosphere was an experience in itself. Especially in Epcot, where we ate in "Germany" and ended up clapping along to the live music in spite of ourselves.
We saw weirdly charming animatronic shows, a documentary about Walt himself in a museum featuring his original weirdly charming animatronic puppet things, and a Donald Duck cartoon with truly amazing 3D effects.
We saw death defying stunt shows, and awesome live theater. (Beauty and the Beast, and songs from the Lion King produced with stagecraft rivaling Taylor Swift.)
We saw live lions and zebras and gorillas and giraffes. We wandered through magical man-made landscapes with waterfalls and giant trees and, of course, castles. We met a couple of Princesses, who charmed the kids.
Oh, and we met Darth Vader and built our own droids.
And we tried on funny hats, and bought a couple of them, and some stuffed animals, and some T-shirts FOR the stuffed animals, because we were just enjoying shopping.
Then we watched fireworks, and they were the best fireworks I've ever seen. The first couple of nights, we stayed on the property, and could see the Magic Kingdom ones from our room, over the lagoon. Then we moved off site (to save money!) and had to stay late at Epcot to catch them, and it was fricking psychedelic.
The kids were never bored. The adults were never bored. Everything was beautiful, and thanks to the planning I put in with the app and reservations and whatnot, mostly felt effortless. Experiencing joy with my children like that was worth the ridiculous price, I'd have to say. I'd do it more often if I could afford to.
If Walt Disney's goal was to create stuff that kids and adults could both enjoy (as the documentary claimed), I think he succeeded. The rides were, like 2% of the experience. I don't know of anywhere else I can experience the rest of that stuff, at least not all together like that.
I wasn't a Disney Adult before, but maybe I am now? I don't know. I guess I can say I kinda get it, at least.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:36 AM on February 27 [24 favorites]
IME, they increasingly hire young Disney adults to be Cast Members, so that they have a dedicated army with little class consciousness. I don't know if that was a part of their strategy or not. I did know someone who had been both a Disney princess and in the Army; she said Disney was tougher.
The FastPass video explained so much about Disney parks to me, and theme parks in general. A few years ago, I was planning to go on a big Disney trip with someone who loves it, but she canceled when she turned out to be expecting -- a much happier occasion for her, and probably for me as well. This was at the point where you had to wake up at, like, 6 am exactly 60 days from your stay to reserve your rides. I hadn't realized that, and I was not at all sure how to have a good time when there was all this research to do. There was plenty of material, all presented by very serious adults who were wearing mouse ears in their long YouTube videos. But it was not chill.
Even so, if they've sorted that out to some degree, I'd like to see it again sometime. I was very small the first time, and most of the rides scared me. But when I was watching a recent video about Super Nintendo World, I realized that was what I wanted to see and what would probably trick me into being a "Disney adult." How has it taken Nintendo this long to license theme parks? (Although they would have been pretty ugly in the 80s, I think.)
posted by Countess Elena at 10:37 AM on February 27 [1 favorite]
The FastPass video explained so much about Disney parks to me, and theme parks in general. A few years ago, I was planning to go on a big Disney trip with someone who loves it, but she canceled when she turned out to be expecting -- a much happier occasion for her, and probably for me as well. This was at the point where you had to wake up at, like, 6 am exactly 60 days from your stay to reserve your rides. I hadn't realized that, and I was not at all sure how to have a good time when there was all this research to do. There was plenty of material, all presented by very serious adults who were wearing mouse ears in their long YouTube videos. But it was not chill.
Even so, if they've sorted that out to some degree, I'd like to see it again sometime. I was very small the first time, and most of the rides scared me. But when I was watching a recent video about Super Nintendo World, I realized that was what I wanted to see and what would probably trick me into being a "Disney adult." How has it taken Nintendo this long to license theme parks? (Although they would have been pretty ugly in the 80s, I think.)
posted by Countess Elena at 10:37 AM on February 27 [1 favorite]
I never did go to Disney World or Disneyland growing up - it was too expensive. (Actually, going anywhere other than relatives' houses was off the table).
Now my income is great, but judging by the increase in costs, I'm still never going to get to go. Unless I win the Superbowl - I guess I have to learn how to play football.
posted by jb at 10:38 AM on February 27 [1 favorite]
Now my income is great, but judging by the increase in costs, I'm still never going to get to go. Unless I win the Superbowl - I guess I have to learn how to play football.
posted by jb at 10:38 AM on February 27 [1 favorite]
The Galactic Starcruiser might have been their bridge too far, though. Lots of analysis about that one but when it was first proposed you had this idea that Disney saw a huge new market in immersive experiences. It's just incredibly expensive to run and maintain.
As a v1 effort, it was definitely ambitious to a fault. And, it had serious problems that, ultimately doomed it. That said, you can bet your bottom dollar that the failure is being deeply unpacked and analyzed to see where things went wrong and, more importantly, how might they be fixed or avoided...next time. And there will be a next time somewhere down the road.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:40 AM on February 27 [2 favorites]
As a v1 effort, it was definitely ambitious to a fault. And, it had serious problems that, ultimately doomed it. That said, you can bet your bottom dollar that the failure is being deeply unpacked and analyzed to see where things went wrong and, more importantly, how might they be fixed or avoided...next time. And there will be a next time somewhere down the road.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:40 AM on February 27 [2 favorites]
I have an annual pass to the Disneyland Resorts, and have been going to Disney since the 70's. For a long period of time, I didn't visit the park, living in Northern California, but now we go once or twice a month. It's a great opportunity to get some walking in, and share time with my family, and the occasional visit with other friends who like to visit the park.
I still see new things every time I go. There is so much history, art, landscaping, creativity...and with the annual pass, we can go, catch some rides or just walk around, and leave before it gets too crowded for comfort.
I've had conversations with people who think it's weird or creepy, sure, but I don't really mind...I like what I like and I do what I want.
posted by Chuffy at 10:40 AM on February 27 [5 favorites]
I still see new things every time I go. There is so much history, art, landscaping, creativity...and with the annual pass, we can go, catch some rides or just walk around, and leave before it gets too crowded for comfort.
I've had conversations with people who think it's weird or creepy, sure, but I don't really mind...I like what I like and I do what I want.
posted by Chuffy at 10:40 AM on February 27 [5 favorites]
I see that my original idea of what Disney Adult entertainment meant was way off.
It might have enticed me to visit if they had adult entertainment-themed park.
posted by MtDewd at 11:03 AM on February 27
It might have enticed me to visit if they had adult entertainment-themed park.
posted by MtDewd at 11:03 AM on February 27
It might have enticed me to visit if they had adult entertainment-themed park.
The re-imagining of Mr.Toad's Wild Ride alone...
posted by Thorzdad at 11:39 AM on February 27 [4 favorites]
The re-imagining of Mr.Toad's Wild Ride alone...
posted by Thorzdad at 11:39 AM on February 27 [4 favorites]
It might have enticed me to visit if they had adult entertainment-themed park
They used to have Pleasure Island at Disney World, conceived as a place that adults could go after the parks closed so they would stay on Disney property. I've only been once, early in 2008 (the year they closed). I remember really enjoying it, particularly the Comedy Warehouse and Adventures Club (huge cult following). I was like 22? I remember the drink being relatively cheaper.
posted by lizjohn at 11:51 AM on February 27 [6 favorites]
They used to have Pleasure Island at Disney World, conceived as a place that adults could go after the parks closed so they would stay on Disney property. I've only been once, early in 2008 (the year they closed). I remember really enjoying it, particularly the Comedy Warehouse and Adventures Club (huge cult following). I was like 22? I remember the drink being relatively cheaper.
posted by lizjohn at 11:51 AM on February 27 [6 favorites]
So here's where my wheelhouse is. I used to be an Imagineer back in the day and worked for the Mouse for years. (I worked on a number of in park image capture solution and early prototypes of FastPass and the MagicBand amongst others)
The Disney Adult thing is absolutely an accidental market extension because all the way back in the 90's, the company identified that they were suffering from massive age compression. (i.e. kids were younger and younger before they started saying things like "Disney is for babies"). It was a radical shift - before the 90's, that was usually around the double digit mark. The marketers had identified the shift getting closer to age 6. So they scrambled to find ways to extend the market - as LizJohn just pointed out - Pleasure Island was absolutely part of that effort. (As were things like the Disney Institute, Celebration, etc), but the actual phenom of the "Disney Adult" afaik was completely a fan created market that the company latched onto with things like pins, badges and cruises and.... (This is incidentally also way Disney got into the Marvel/Star Wars market to have IPs that targetted tween and teen boys)
They attempted to address the ticket cost by expanding into Location Based Entertainment (LBE) with projects like DisneyQuest.
Disney is very, very good at extending their reach.
One note about TDS, TDL and OLC. OLC licenses Disney IP and operate the parks (and they're fanatical about it in a way that Disney Park Ops wishes they were), but the parks themselves are still designed by Imagineers. The Asian Parks were always way more fun projects to work on (and that also includes Hong Kong and Shanghai - though I never got to work on those)
posted by drewbage1847 at 12:01 PM on February 27 [21 favorites]
The Disney Adult thing is absolutely an accidental market extension because all the way back in the 90's, the company identified that they were suffering from massive age compression. (i.e. kids were younger and younger before they started saying things like "Disney is for babies"). It was a radical shift - before the 90's, that was usually around the double digit mark. The marketers had identified the shift getting closer to age 6. So they scrambled to find ways to extend the market - as LizJohn just pointed out - Pleasure Island was absolutely part of that effort. (As were things like the Disney Institute, Celebration, etc), but the actual phenom of the "Disney Adult" afaik was completely a fan created market that the company latched onto with things like pins, badges and cruises and.... (This is incidentally also way Disney got into the Marvel/Star Wars market to have IPs that targetted tween and teen boys)
They attempted to address the ticket cost by expanding into Location Based Entertainment (LBE) with projects like DisneyQuest.
Disney is very, very good at extending their reach.
One note about TDS, TDL and OLC. OLC licenses Disney IP and operate the parks (and they're fanatical about it in a way that Disney Park Ops wishes they were), but the parks themselves are still designed by Imagineers. The Asian Parks were always way more fun projects to work on (and that also includes Hong Kong and Shanghai - though I never got to work on those)
posted by drewbage1847 at 12:01 PM on February 27 [21 favorites]
missing from the conversation, and kinda new to my understanding of the acquisitions: the giant forever-fans markets of Star Wars Adults and Marvel Adults. Who are on the other end of the gender imbalance and probably help make more straight couples harmonious in their desire to visit the parks.
posted by obsoletefuture at 12:07 PM on February 27 [5 favorites]
posted by obsoletefuture at 12:07 PM on February 27 [5 favorites]
Are they bringing in new customers with kids at all? Anecdotal but most of my friends with kids are spending their vacation dollars somewhere else because they're cash nervous compared to our parents' generation. Those who do have the cash and don't come in converted aren't impressed, because if you have the cash to do it right you're used to Michelin meals and boutique hotels.
It just seems extremely culty compared to when it was a common middle class trip because the grandparents were retired in Florida.
(Note: there are some devoted Star Wars fans among them, but "Luke died" so it's a no go.)
posted by kingdead at 12:10 PM on February 27 [1 favorite]
It just seems extremely culty compared to when it was a common middle class trip because the grandparents were retired in Florida.
(Note: there are some devoted Star Wars fans among them, but "Luke died" so it's a no go.)
posted by kingdead at 12:10 PM on February 27 [1 favorite]
The demographics listed in the article are pretty interesting. What is it about Disney, specifically, that captures the white female market? Does it tie into the "purity" the influencer Rachul is labeled with? I can attest that my own partner, a white woman raised in a conservative background, was only really allowed to watch Disney films growing up because they were viewed as clean and safe compared to the rest of culture. I suppose that "purity" has a specific appeal for the kind of evangelical parents of daughters in ways it may not apply to sons, and the article seems to indicate Disney leans into that appeal, but I'd imagine they'd like it to encompass all children. Is there more to it?
posted by TheKaijuCommuter at 12:16 PM on February 27 [3 favorites]
posted by TheKaijuCommuter at 12:16 PM on February 27 [3 favorites]
Disney always has the cachet of "safe, family friendly and nostalgia" tied to it - mixed with an air of individual empowerment (see all the heroes/heroines of the animated films). That's very appealing (and amusingly Disney - which is not terribly progressive in a number of ways - gets attacked from conservative elements all the time as a great moral outrage "Gay Days at the park demonstrate that even Disney is in league with the forces of cultural degradation")
That really applies across the breadth of Disney properties (and why it was such a huge risk when they opened other film slates like Touchstone, Hollywood Pictures - acquired Miramax, etc.).
It's why when I worked at Disney Online our whole mandate from the Division was to develop software and tecniques to keep kids safe from Internet predators - in part to avoid damaging the family friendly and safe qualities of the brand.
posted by drewbage1847 at 12:24 PM on February 27 [4 favorites]
That really applies across the breadth of Disney properties (and why it was such a huge risk when they opened other film slates like Touchstone, Hollywood Pictures - acquired Miramax, etc.).
It's why when I worked at Disney Online our whole mandate from the Division was to develop software and tecniques to keep kids safe from Internet predators - in part to avoid damaging the family friendly and safe qualities of the brand.
posted by drewbage1847 at 12:24 PM on February 27 [4 favorites]
What is it about Disney, specifically, that captures the white female market?
Probably that so many of their movies feature female leads, which surprisingly, females like.
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:26 PM on February 27 [15 favorites]
Probably that so many of their movies feature female leads, which surprisingly, females like.
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:26 PM on February 27 [15 favorites]
The way each park has a hierarchy of price points has me wondering if some people get a certain kind of validation by thinking of it as an experience tree to be climbed, i.e. two years ago we stayed at a budget resort but thanks to that promotion now we're on the monorail!
posted by RonButNotStupid at 12:57 PM on February 27 [4 favorites]
posted by RonButNotStupid at 12:57 PM on February 27 [4 favorites]
Reading the article, I'm just not sure the Disney Adult industrial complex is all that different from the NFL. Or MLB, or other major league sporting. Or, if there's an argument about athletic contests versus scripted narratives, WWE. Big characters, legacies, history, merchandising, high ticket prices. No?
posted by I EAT TAPAS at 1:49 PM on February 27 [6 favorites]
posted by I EAT TAPAS at 1:49 PM on February 27 [6 favorites]
I work with a Disney Adult, she's there right now; she always goes around March, which is also her birthday month. It doesn't matter that she just had surgery with a "NO ROLLER COASTERS" warning from her doctor, she's going to Disney and nothing can affect that.
My inlaws, a couple years after I married into their family with my kid, took themselves and our new blended family of 5 to Disneyworld, and I get the feeling they expected me to be...more excited about it. I mean, I like Disney films, and I did have fun, but it wasn't a life changing experience or anything. It was a lot of walking and logistics and making kids keep up and finding bathrooms and some people are hungry but the inlaws had a tradition of eating at a certain restaurant so we had to wait until we got there, etc., etc. I wonder if not having kids is part of why adults find it more fun
posted by AzraelBrown at 1:53 PM on February 27 [5 favorites]
My inlaws, a couple years after I married into their family with my kid, took themselves and our new blended family of 5 to Disneyworld, and I get the feeling they expected me to be...more excited about it. I mean, I like Disney films, and I did have fun, but it wasn't a life changing experience or anything. It was a lot of walking and logistics and making kids keep up and finding bathrooms and some people are hungry but the inlaws had a tradition of eating at a certain restaurant so we had to wait until we got there, etc., etc. I wonder if not having kids is part of why adults find it more fun
posted by AzraelBrown at 1:53 PM on February 27 [5 favorites]
It might have enticed me to visit if they had adult entertainment-themed park.
The re-imagining of Mr.Toad's Wild Ride alone.
Mr. Choad’s Wild Ride? Sorry , inappropriate!
posted by caviar2d2 at 2:46 PM on February 27 [3 favorites]
The re-imagining of Mr.Toad's Wild Ride alone.
Mr. Choad’s Wild Ride? Sorry , inappropriate!
posted by caviar2d2 at 2:46 PM on February 27 [3 favorites]
When I was growing up getting to watch Wonderful World of Disney was a super-special treat, because it came on on Sunday nights. Southern Baptists — and their captive children — were at church during prime time. My mom held a vague conspiracy that the time slot was a satanic plot to keep kids out of church. We couldn't have afforded to go even if we wanted to, as my dad needed those funds for poker and waitresses. Perhaps as a result, I don't understand Disney Adults and the mania for childish things in general.
Two years ago I went to a conference in Disneyworld where they literally shut down Epcot for our private group and we were escorted in front of God and everybody for the rides. I will say that the new Star Wars ride was an amazing immersive experience. Not sure if I'd feel the same if it hadn't been free and with zero wait time. No, wait. It was amazing, but there's no way I'd go on my own dime and my own time. YDAMMV
If you have a chance to see Space Explorers: The Infinite, by all means do so. It's a VR visit to the ISS and I actually cried.
posted by cyndigo at 3:33 PM on February 27 [2 favorites]
Two years ago I went to a conference in Disneyworld where they literally shut down Epcot for our private group and we were escorted in front of God and everybody for the rides. I will say that the new Star Wars ride was an amazing immersive experience. Not sure if I'd feel the same if it hadn't been free and with zero wait time. No, wait. It was amazing, but there's no way I'd go on my own dime and my own time. YDAMMV
If you have a chance to see Space Explorers: The Infinite, by all means do so. It's a VR visit to the ISS and I actually cried.
posted by cyndigo at 3:33 PM on February 27 [2 favorites]
I used to work with a woman whose family were dedicated Disney park goers, because her brother has Down Syndrome and Disney was a super accessible experience for him
I have a friend who is loyal to Disney because they have the best accessibility services she’s ever experienced. Their family of 8 includes 5 people with varying degrees of blindness and autism, and Disney is very special to them because of how easy it is to communicate with Disney about accessibility needs, and how solid the assistance is once they’ve arrived.
posted by Well I never at 3:34 PM on February 27 [11 favorites]
I have a friend who is loyal to Disney because they have the best accessibility services she’s ever experienced. Their family of 8 includes 5 people with varying degrees of blindness and autism, and Disney is very special to them because of how easy it is to communicate with Disney about accessibility needs, and how solid the assistance is once they’ve arrived.
posted by Well I never at 3:34 PM on February 27 [11 favorites]
Disney holds no appeal for me as an adult (I’m going to Vegas in six weeks, lest you think I’m don’t-own-a-TV-ing) but I quite enjoyed the limited series podcast Keys to the Kingdom, on what it’s like to be a Disney performer.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 3:41 PM on February 27 [2 favorites]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 3:41 PM on February 27 [2 favorites]
When I was a kid growing up going to Disney was never an option because if we were going to fly somewhere during the summer it would be back to Pakistan to visit family with maybe some stopovers along the way. Now that I've got kids its a similar thing where if we're going to fly somewhere it'll be to Japan so that my kids can spend time with their cousins and grandparents. There's always the possibility that we could visit one of the Tokyo Disney parks but the next time we go the priority for anything like that kind of thing would be the Ghibli park near Nagoya or maybe catching a One Piece show at Universal Studios Japan.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 3:42 PM on February 27
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 3:42 PM on February 27
The parents I know who are dedicated Disney people are, yes, in it for the accessibility for their disabled and/or neurodivergent kids. Disney is so many leagues ahead of basically anyone else for those families’ needs that they have their loyalty for life, probably.
I had enough of Disney as a kid, when we would visit family in California every year and always ended up there. It was…fine? We were a wide age range of cousins and it was probably the best way to engage all the kids, but I was the eldest and least enthralled. I don’t feel any need to return. But I’m very glad they have made family vacations accessible and enjoyable for some of my dear friends and colleagues.
posted by Stacey at 4:59 PM on February 27 [3 favorites]
I had enough of Disney as a kid, when we would visit family in California every year and always ended up there. It was…fine? We were a wide age range of cousins and it was probably the best way to engage all the kids, but I was the eldest and least enthralled. I don’t feel any need to return. But I’m very glad they have made family vacations accessible and enjoyable for some of my dear friends and colleagues.
posted by Stacey at 4:59 PM on February 27 [3 favorites]
I have a family member with a food allergy, and the Disneyland restaurants are very good about accommodating allergies. Each restaurant has a menu you can ask for that lists items that can be made allergen-free, and you can also talk to a chef about what dishes can be modified to be safe. They are very careful about it. Disneyland is one of our top vacation destinations for this reason -- Disney really does care about accessibility for people with medical/health issues.
posted by Mallenroh at 5:13 PM on February 27 [3 favorites]
posted by Mallenroh at 5:13 PM on February 27 [3 favorites]
My husband and I took our kids to Disney World in Dec 2022. It was the first time I had been in decades, since the early 90s. The four of us, including a 6 year old and a 20 year old, had a really terrific time. We enjoyed it so much we went back the next year, and had another great trip.
We are rides people, but also "vibes" people, and are increasingly shows people. The only thing that doesn't really overexcite me are the character meets, but I'm definitely not here to yuk anyone's Disney yum. It's very clean, there are customer service people easily accessible all over the parks, the food is fine and often fun and interesting. I have big nostalgia for some rides and things (Haunted Mansion, Pirates, Spaceship Earth).
As others have noted, they are very good on supporting a great experience for people of all abilities, but this extends beyond people with disabilities. They are also great at creating very exciting rides for people of all sizes (meaning from early elementary children to large adults). The Guardians of the Galaxy ride at EPCOT, for example, is a very thrilling coaster that accommodates a wide range of body types. The shows are very high quality as well, and are targeted at wide range of ages.
I don't really consider us "Disney Adults" - we don't have Disney decor or wear Disney outfits. But it is a fun and reliable vacation experience, at least for us. I'm sort of conflicted about it, because maybe we should be going to the Grand Canyon or something. And it is expensive. We're doing something else this year, but thinking about a return in 2025.
posted by jeoc at 5:41 PM on February 27 [3 favorites]
We are rides people, but also "vibes" people, and are increasingly shows people. The only thing that doesn't really overexcite me are the character meets, but I'm definitely not here to yuk anyone's Disney yum. It's very clean, there are customer service people easily accessible all over the parks, the food is fine and often fun and interesting. I have big nostalgia for some rides and things (Haunted Mansion, Pirates, Spaceship Earth).
As others have noted, they are very good on supporting a great experience for people of all abilities, but this extends beyond people with disabilities. They are also great at creating very exciting rides for people of all sizes (meaning from early elementary children to large adults). The Guardians of the Galaxy ride at EPCOT, for example, is a very thrilling coaster that accommodates a wide range of body types. The shows are very high quality as well, and are targeted at wide range of ages.
I don't really consider us "Disney Adults" - we don't have Disney decor or wear Disney outfits. But it is a fun and reliable vacation experience, at least for us. I'm sort of conflicted about it, because maybe we should be going to the Grand Canyon or something. And it is expensive. We're doing something else this year, but thinking about a return in 2025.
posted by jeoc at 5:41 PM on February 27 [3 favorites]
The way each park has a hierarchy of price points has me wondering if some people get a certain kind of validation by thinking of it as an experience tree to be climbed, i.e. two years ago we stayed at a budget resort but thanks to that promotion now we're on the monorail!
My partner is very prone to experience-tree thinking and, yes, definitely. Disney does a really good job of having essentially infinite unlockable price points. You can ALWAYS pay more and the experience is almost always actually commensurately better when you do. More convenient, less time in line, better food, special seating, special access - you name it, and Disney can probably make it happen if you can cough up the scratch. I've spent seriously embarrassing amounts of money on special days at Disneyland but honestly, I generally felt pretty okay about the value I got for the money compared to baseline. Like yes you have to pay $15 for Any Old Meal and that's ridiculous, but if you pay 3x that, the Three Times As Expensive meal usually feels about three times as good. If you pay once-in-a-lifetime cash you will probably walk away feeling like you got a once-in-a-lifetime experience out of it. But I guess I've already drunk the kool-aid, because I was willing to pony it up in the first place.
We definitely have had conversations like "we had a pretty good year, do you want to stay at the Grand Californian this time?" And he actually wants to go back to WDW sometime and stay in the Contemporary, because last time we went we were too poor to do that, but I'm pretty allergic to the state of Florida at the moment.
posted by potrzebie at 5:59 PM on February 27 [2 favorites]
My partner is very prone to experience-tree thinking and, yes, definitely. Disney does a really good job of having essentially infinite unlockable price points. You can ALWAYS pay more and the experience is almost always actually commensurately better when you do. More convenient, less time in line, better food, special seating, special access - you name it, and Disney can probably make it happen if you can cough up the scratch. I've spent seriously embarrassing amounts of money on special days at Disneyland but honestly, I generally felt pretty okay about the value I got for the money compared to baseline. Like yes you have to pay $15 for Any Old Meal and that's ridiculous, but if you pay 3x that, the Three Times As Expensive meal usually feels about three times as good. If you pay once-in-a-lifetime cash you will probably walk away feeling like you got a once-in-a-lifetime experience out of it. But I guess I've already drunk the kool-aid, because I was willing to pony it up in the first place.
We definitely have had conversations like "we had a pretty good year, do you want to stay at the Grand Californian this time?" And he actually wants to go back to WDW sometime and stay in the Contemporary, because last time we went we were too poor to do that, but I'm pretty allergic to the state of Florida at the moment.
posted by potrzebie at 5:59 PM on February 27 [2 favorites]
I'm not what one might consider a "Disney Adult", but I did grow up going to Disney World and have many fond memories there.
However, I now count among the masses who have been priced out. My last trip there was in 2016 with my now-ex wife and son. We had an enjoyable trip then, but recently when I thought about taking my son back before he gets too "teen" to enjoy it, the cost was simply staggering.
I doubt we will ever go back to Disney World unless I score a new job with a massive increase in pay.
posted by Fleebnork at 5:50 AM on February 28
However, I now count among the masses who have been priced out. My last trip there was in 2016 with my now-ex wife and son. We had an enjoyable trip then, but recently when I thought about taking my son back before he gets too "teen" to enjoy it, the cost was simply staggering.
I doubt we will ever go back to Disney World unless I score a new job with a massive increase in pay.
posted by Fleebnork at 5:50 AM on February 28
I have some relatives with Club 33 membership. I believe even Club 33 membership doesn't get you unlimited skip the line passes, just like 10 or something, (maybe per day, IDK).
The Mouse is cruel.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:51 AM on February 28
The Mouse is cruel.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:51 AM on February 28
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