Texas Red...and Other Chili Recipes
February 28, 2024 10:36 PM Subscribe
The dish known as chili, or chilli, or chile, is a land of contrasts. Let's just get that out of the way up front.
The origins of chili are not fully clear, but it seems to have come primarily from San Antonio Texas in the 1800's, where a hash or stew of beef, chili peppers, and other spices called "chili con carne" was popular. It is apparently not of Mexican origin but rather a "Tex-Mex" recipe of primarily US origin.
Anyway, on to the recipes!
What constitutes "authentic" chili?
Highly debatable. The reality seems to be that there is no One True Recipe, but the minimum requirements for what we call "chili" today - most specifically the "Texas Red" version - are beef, chili peppers, salt, and water or stock. But onions, garlic, cumin, and oregano are frequently added, and that's not the end of differences between recipes. For instance:
- Beef chunks vs. ground beef - Chunks are more traditional, ground is easier/quicker. If using chunks, sear the meat first, and simmer the stew until it's fall-apart tender.
- Tomato paste/diced tomatoes or both vs. none.
- A few high-quality ingredients vs. lots of extra flavorings (e.g. bacon, coffee, beer, tequila, sugar, cinnamon, unsweetened chocolate/cacao powder, allspice, coriander, nutmeg, cloves ...)
- Beans vs. no beans - Supposedly, "real Texans" will tell you "real chili" contain NO BEANS...but even then that doesn't seem to be a unanimous rule. Red kidney, pinto, or both are often used, though there are also recipes that specifically use black beans.
See? Land of contrasts! Clearly though, the heart of a chili con carne recipe is the beef and the chile peppers.
- Cuts of beef: Chuck steak/roast, tri-tip, and top sirloin are popular and usually less expensive than brisket, short ribs, flat iron or hanger steak. For ground beef, ground chuck is usual.
- Chiles: These can usually be found in the "Latin" aisle of the supermarket if you're not fortunate enough to live near a bodega or Mexican grocery. Using these is strongly recommended, as the pre-made bottled "chili powder" from the spice aisle simply cannot hold a candle to the real thing! Using a mix of dried chiles results in a deeper more complex flavor, and allows the heat to be dialed up or down to one's personal preference - most of the chiles used have little or no spiciness (especially with the seeds removed) and just contribute flavor, and only certain kinds are specifically added for heat. The best, most detailed description of choosing and preparing dried chiles I have found is in J. Kenji Lopez-Alt's Original Texas Chili Con Carne recipe. In brief: use a mix of chili types, de-stem and de-seed, lightly toast then soften in stock until tender, then blend into a smooth sauce.
So anyway, how about some recipes!?
"Traditional" Chili con carne / Texas Red and don't skimp on the chiles - it's Texas, we're talking hearty!
But other well-established regional styles of chili have arisen over the decades, which also bear mentioning. The recipes below are relatively representative for each style, without too many non-typical ingredients. But use this as an introduction, don't assume this is the Last Word in chili recipes. There are MANY other excellent recipes out there! And of course, feel free to add your own favorites to the thread.
Bonus: For a quick easy visualization of the different kinds of ingredients used in the various chili styles, see this clever Venn diagram (Reddit).
Chile/Chili Verde - A southwestern US favorite usually made with pork or chicken, roasted green peppers (poblano, hatch, jalapeno, etc.), tomatillos, onions, garlic, oregano, optionally cumin and/or cilantro - but no beans.
White Chili - Chicken, white beans, mild green chiles, chicken broth (no tomatoes).
Cincinatti/Skyline Chili - Ground beef and/or pork, a sweeter flavor using some combination of cinnamon/chocolate/allspice/cloves/nutmeg, paprika, Worcestershire. Doesn't usually contain beans. Most often served on a bed of spaghetti and topped with shredded cheddar and maybe chopped raw onions.
Oklahoma Chili - Similar to Texas red, but Oklahomans have a less rigid attitude toward additional ingredients such as masa, beans, and cocoa powder. Ground beef or chunks may be used. (The author of the linked recipe calls it "authentic Texas", but...well, we've already covered that above.)
Springfield IL Chilli (two l's, like in Illinois, get it?) - Ground beef, bacon, onions, Worcestershire, beer, pinto beans.
Kansas City Chili - Barbecue influenced, of course: pulled pork or burnt ends of brisket for the meat. Beans, tomatoes, Worcestershire sauce, cumin, and chili powder, maybe a dollop or two of BBQ sauce. Typical toppings can include ketchup, vinegar-based hot sauce, spicy mustard, shredded cheddar, sour cream, diced onions.
Cajun/Creole chili - starts with a typical Texas-style base and includes the holy trinity as well as Creole/Cajun spices and hot sauce. May be made with chicken and/or Andouille sausage.
Vegetarian Chili - Pretty much anything but meat! Including beans, natch.
Which chili is "best"?
Why, the one in front of you, of course, made by someone who loves you!
Previously:
Miles Davis' "famous" chili recipe (2020)
Mark Bittman pisses off Texas (2015)
Chile con Carne (2003)
History of chile peppers (2018)
Chile Pepper Time (2010)
Everything you never wanted to know about chillies (2002)
Additional resources:
AllRecipes - The Surprising (and Speculative) History of Chili and Basic Guide to America's Most Beloved Regional Chili Recipes
XLNT Foods - Guide to The Best Types of Chili Across the Country
Taste of Home - 9 Essential Types of Chili Every Cook Should Know
Serious Eats - Divided States of Chili: A Guide to America's Most Contentious Stew
The origins of chili are not fully clear, but it seems to have come primarily from San Antonio Texas in the 1800's, where a hash or stew of beef, chili peppers, and other spices called "chili con carne" was popular. It is apparently not of Mexican origin but rather a "Tex-Mex" recipe of primarily US origin.
Anyway, on to the recipes!
What constitutes "authentic" chili?
Highly debatable. The reality seems to be that there is no One True Recipe, but the minimum requirements for what we call "chili" today - most specifically the "Texas Red" version - are beef, chili peppers, salt, and water or stock. But onions, garlic, cumin, and oregano are frequently added, and that's not the end of differences between recipes. For instance:
- Beef chunks vs. ground beef - Chunks are more traditional, ground is easier/quicker. If using chunks, sear the meat first, and simmer the stew until it's fall-apart tender.
- Tomato paste/diced tomatoes or both vs. none.
- A few high-quality ingredients vs. lots of extra flavorings (e.g. bacon, coffee, beer, tequila, sugar, cinnamon, unsweetened chocolate/cacao powder, allspice, coriander, nutmeg, cloves ...)
- Beans vs. no beans - Supposedly, "real Texans" will tell you "real chili" contain NO BEANS...but even then that doesn't seem to be a unanimous rule. Red kidney, pinto, or both are often used, though there are also recipes that specifically use black beans.
See? Land of contrasts! Clearly though, the heart of a chili con carne recipe is the beef and the chile peppers.
- Cuts of beef: Chuck steak/roast, tri-tip, and top sirloin are popular and usually less expensive than brisket, short ribs, flat iron or hanger steak. For ground beef, ground chuck is usual.
- Chiles: These can usually be found in the "Latin" aisle of the supermarket if you're not fortunate enough to live near a bodega or Mexican grocery. Using these is strongly recommended, as the pre-made bottled "chili powder" from the spice aisle simply cannot hold a candle to the real thing! Using a mix of dried chiles results in a deeper more complex flavor, and allows the heat to be dialed up or down to one's personal preference - most of the chiles used have little or no spiciness (especially with the seeds removed) and just contribute flavor, and only certain kinds are specifically added for heat. The best, most detailed description of choosing and preparing dried chiles I have found is in J. Kenji Lopez-Alt's Original Texas Chili Con Carne recipe. In brief: use a mix of chili types, de-stem and de-seed, lightly toast then soften in stock until tender, then blend into a smooth sauce.
So anyway, how about some recipes!?
"Traditional" Chili con carne / Texas Red and don't skimp on the chiles - it's Texas, we're talking hearty!
But other well-established regional styles of chili have arisen over the decades, which also bear mentioning. The recipes below are relatively representative for each style, without too many non-typical ingredients. But use this as an introduction, don't assume this is the Last Word in chili recipes. There are MANY other excellent recipes out there! And of course, feel free to add your own favorites to the thread.
Bonus: For a quick easy visualization of the different kinds of ingredients used in the various chili styles, see this clever Venn diagram (Reddit).
Chile/Chili Verde - A southwestern US favorite usually made with pork or chicken, roasted green peppers (poblano, hatch, jalapeno, etc.), tomatillos, onions, garlic, oregano, optionally cumin and/or cilantro - but no beans.
White Chili - Chicken, white beans, mild green chiles, chicken broth (no tomatoes).
Cincinatti/Skyline Chili - Ground beef and/or pork, a sweeter flavor using some combination of cinnamon/chocolate/allspice/cloves/nutmeg, paprika, Worcestershire. Doesn't usually contain beans. Most often served on a bed of spaghetti and topped with shredded cheddar and maybe chopped raw onions.
Oklahoma Chili - Similar to Texas red, but Oklahomans have a less rigid attitude toward additional ingredients such as masa, beans, and cocoa powder. Ground beef or chunks may be used. (The author of the linked recipe calls it "authentic Texas", but...well, we've already covered that above.)
Springfield IL Chilli (two l's, like in Illinois, get it?) - Ground beef, bacon, onions, Worcestershire, beer, pinto beans.
Kansas City Chili - Barbecue influenced, of course: pulled pork or burnt ends of brisket for the meat. Beans, tomatoes, Worcestershire sauce, cumin, and chili powder, maybe a dollop or two of BBQ sauce. Typical toppings can include ketchup, vinegar-based hot sauce, spicy mustard, shredded cheddar, sour cream, diced onions.
Cajun/Creole chili - starts with a typical Texas-style base and includes the holy trinity as well as Creole/Cajun spices and hot sauce. May be made with chicken and/or Andouille sausage.
Vegetarian Chili - Pretty much anything but meat! Including beans, natch.
Which chili is "best"?
Why, the one in front of you, of course, made by someone who loves you!
Previously:
Miles Davis' "famous" chili recipe (2020)
Mark Bittman pisses off Texas (2015)
Chile con Carne (2003)
History of chile peppers (2018)
Chile Pepper Time (2010)
Everything you never wanted to know about chillies (2002)
Additional resources:
AllRecipes - The Surprising (and Speculative) History of Chili and Basic Guide to America's Most Beloved Regional Chili Recipes
XLNT Foods - Guide to The Best Types of Chili Across the Country
Taste of Home - 9 Essential Types of Chili Every Cook Should Know
Serious Eats - Divided States of Chili: A Guide to America's Most Contentious Stew
Adding on - the recipes and history posted look amazing, but the question above is genuine confusion. I always assumed it was a special beef curry that was very American sort of like the strangeness of Chicago deep dish and your thanksgiving side dishes, but these descriptions make it so that what I ate last night (Chinese-Thai olive rice!) would count as Chilli. What makes chilli american/texmex?
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 11:24 PM on February 28
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 11:24 PM on February 28
I'd say primarily because different chiles and spices.
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:25 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:25 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]
It’s early in the year to have such a competitive entry in the reductionism olympics, but in the same way that any dish is just “plants, flesh, and water”, then sure, i guess so.
It’s the Kenji recipe for me.
posted by supercres at 11:26 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]
It’s the Kenji recipe for me.
posted by supercres at 11:26 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]
I cannot stress strongly enough that using dried chiles as described above is SO worth the effort! In fact I find that the resulting chile flavor is such a star that all those "lots of extra flavorings" listed above are rendered superfluous. I've gone through a few different chili recipes in my life, and after discovering the wonder of dried chiles I settled on a "fewer, high-quality ingredients" recipe, close to "Texas red" but with a couple of variations (including beans, don't @ me):
4 whole sweet fresh dried chilies like New Mexico/California/Anaheim, Costeño, or Choricero
4 whole rich fruity dried chiles like Ancho, Negro, Pasilla, or Mulatto
4 whole dried smoky chiles like Guajillo, Nora, or Pasilla de Oaxaca
4 whole dried smoked chiles (Chipotle/Meca/Morita)
4-5 small hot dried chiles like Cascabel or Arbol
Other spices:
2 Tbsp cumin seeds (or cumin powder)
2 Tbsp dried oregano
2 large or 4 small bay leaves
2 tsp cacao powder (optional)
2 tsp instant espresso powder (optional)
1-2 quarts low sodium chicken broth
2 pounds beef chuck steak, trimmed of excess gristle and fat
Kosher salt and freshly ground black pepper
2 tablespoons vegetable oil
1 large onion, finely diced
6 medium cloves garlic, grated
2-3 Tbsp cornmeal
2 Tbsp apple cider vinegar (or more, to taste)
2 cans EACH kidney and pinto beans
Optional: Hot sauce, cilantro, chopped onions, scallions, grated cheese, lime wedges, and warm tortillas
De-seed, toast, simmer, and blend chiles per Kenji.
Season trimmed steak pieces generously with salt and pepper. Heat oil in the base of a Dutch oven over high heat until just starting to smoke. Add the meat in a single layer (DO NOT crowd the pot, sear the pieces in stages if necessary) and cook without moving until deeply browned, about 6 minutes. Flip and brown second side, 3 to 4 minutes longer. You're not cooking the meat all the way through, just getting it browned to add that crucial flavor to the finished dish. Transfer steaks to a cutting board. When cool enough to handle, cut the pieces into 1 1/2- to 2-inch chunks.
Preheat the oven to 200° - 250°F (95° - 120°C).
Lower the heat to medium high, then return the Dutch oven to the burner. Add onions and a little salt (always salt, lightly, as you go!) and pepper and cook, stirring frequently until translucent and softened - this will take a few minutes. Once the onions are well softened add the garlic and cook another minute or two, stirring constantly, until the garlic is fragrant (but not browned!). Add meat chunks back to the pan along with the chili puree and just enough chicken broth to cover everything. Stir to combine. Bring to a boil over high heat, then put in the oven with the lid of the Dutch oven slightly ajar. Let simmer until the meat is nearly falling-apart tender (about an hour, maybe two).
Meanwhile, grind the other spices. I find that the cacao and espresso add a depth and roundness, but are totally optional.
Stir in beans, ground spices, cornmeal, and vinegar. Let simmer for another 30 minutes then add salt, more vinegar, and/or hot sauce to taste.
Can be served immediately, or allow chili to cool and store in the refrigerator up to five days before reheating and serving.
Serve in bowls with with lime wedges and tortillas on the side. Garnish with choice of cilantro, chopped onions, scallions, and grated cheese.
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:26 PM on February 28 [20 favorites]
4 whole sweet fresh dried chilies like New Mexico/California/Anaheim, Costeño, or Choricero
4 whole rich fruity dried chiles like Ancho, Negro, Pasilla, or Mulatto
4 whole dried smoky chiles like Guajillo, Nora, or Pasilla de Oaxaca
4 whole dried smoked chiles (Chipotle/Meca/Morita)
4-5 small hot dried chiles like Cascabel or Arbol
Other spices:
2 Tbsp cumin seeds (or cumin powder)
2 Tbsp dried oregano
2 large or 4 small bay leaves
2 tsp cacao powder (optional)
2 tsp instant espresso powder (optional)
1-2 quarts low sodium chicken broth
2 pounds beef chuck steak, trimmed of excess gristle and fat
Kosher salt and freshly ground black pepper
2 tablespoons vegetable oil
1 large onion, finely diced
6 medium cloves garlic, grated
2-3 Tbsp cornmeal
2 Tbsp apple cider vinegar (or more, to taste)
2 cans EACH kidney and pinto beans
Optional: Hot sauce, cilantro, chopped onions, scallions, grated cheese, lime wedges, and warm tortillas
De-seed, toast, simmer, and blend chiles per Kenji.
Season trimmed steak pieces generously with salt and pepper. Heat oil in the base of a Dutch oven over high heat until just starting to smoke. Add the meat in a single layer (DO NOT crowd the pot, sear the pieces in stages if necessary) and cook without moving until deeply browned, about 6 minutes. Flip and brown second side, 3 to 4 minutes longer. You're not cooking the meat all the way through, just getting it browned to add that crucial flavor to the finished dish. Transfer steaks to a cutting board. When cool enough to handle, cut the pieces into 1 1/2- to 2-inch chunks.
Preheat the oven to 200° - 250°F (95° - 120°C).
Lower the heat to medium high, then return the Dutch oven to the burner. Add onions and a little salt (always salt, lightly, as you go!) and pepper and cook, stirring frequently until translucent and softened - this will take a few minutes. Once the onions are well softened add the garlic and cook another minute or two, stirring constantly, until the garlic is fragrant (but not browned!). Add meat chunks back to the pan along with the chili puree and just enough chicken broth to cover everything. Stir to combine. Bring to a boil over high heat, then put in the oven with the lid of the Dutch oven slightly ajar. Let simmer until the meat is nearly falling-apart tender (about an hour, maybe two).
Meanwhile, grind the other spices. I find that the cacao and espresso add a depth and roundness, but are totally optional.
Stir in beans, ground spices, cornmeal, and vinegar. Let simmer for another 30 minutes then add salt, more vinegar, and/or hot sauce to taste.
Can be served immediately, or allow chili to cool and store in the refrigerator up to five days before reheating and serving.
Serve in bowls with with lime wedges and tortillas on the side. Garnish with choice of cilantro, chopped onions, scallions, and grated cheese.
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:26 PM on February 28 [20 favorites]
Call me a heretic but I have generally preferred to make chili with brisket (stands up to long slow cooking better, I think it has a better flavour) and sometimes cross cut blade (which I think might be a local cut) which has a big wodge of connective tissue in the middle which just melts with long cooking and gives great flavour and texture.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:00 AM on February 29 [3 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:00 AM on February 29 [3 favorites]
Wait so it’s just spicy beef?
Technically, yes. The words literally mean 'chili peppers with meat(contextually beef)'. So yeah.
But I'd compare it to what defines 'a curry'. The base requirement is that curry is involved, yes?
Same with 'a bowl of chili'.
I'm sure you could come up with a concoction of capsicums and kangaroo that makes a perfectly cromulent 'Australian chili'. (or Spicy Skippy Stew. Big Red n' Beans?)
Its very broad. Turkey (mince) chili. All veggie chili. All beef chili (NO BEANS!). Five-Bean chili. Goat meat chili.
All born of a solution to 'all we have to eat today are these tough cuts of meat and a string of dried chili peppers. Put em both in a pot of water and cook until they soften and fall apart. Add whatever else you can forage. Yum.'
posted by bartleby at 12:18 AM on February 29 [4 favorites]
Technically, yes. The words literally mean 'chili peppers with meat(contextually beef)'. So yeah.
But I'd compare it to what defines 'a curry'. The base requirement is that curry is involved, yes?
Same with 'a bowl of chili'.
I'm sure you could come up with a concoction of capsicums and kangaroo that makes a perfectly cromulent 'Australian chili'. (or Spicy Skippy Stew. Big Red n' Beans?)
Its very broad. Turkey (mince) chili. All veggie chili. All beef chili (NO BEANS!). Five-Bean chili. Goat meat chili.
All born of a solution to 'all we have to eat today are these tough cuts of meat and a string of dried chili peppers. Put em both in a pot of water and cook until they soften and fall apart. Add whatever else you can forage. Yum.'
posted by bartleby at 12:18 AM on February 29 [4 favorites]
How is it different from spaghetti bolognaise with a lot of chilli?
In this house it's not. I make a bog, eat it with pasta then the next day cook up the leftovers with spices, beans and chillies and call it chilli. I'm open about this but am not sure if I might be offending two cultures at once. I make it with kangaroo mince generally, wallaby if I'm feeling posh.
posted by deadwax at 12:21 AM on February 29 [3 favorites]
In this house it's not. I make a bog, eat it with pasta then the next day cook up the leftovers with spices, beans and chillies and call it chilli. I'm open about this but am not sure if I might be offending two cultures at once. I make it with kangaroo mince generally, wallaby if I'm feeling posh.
posted by deadwax at 12:21 AM on February 29 [3 favorites]
One thing that I really appreciate when making chili is cooking dry beans separately, then using that broth when making the actual chili. I love a nice bean broth and it really levels up a chili.
posted by Carillon at 12:29 AM on February 29 [6 favorites]
posted by Carillon at 12:29 AM on February 29 [6 favorites]
Wait so it’s just spicy beef? How is it different from spaghetti bolognaise with a lot of chilli?
In the UK it is canonically the same as bolognese except with chili and red kidney beans. Not that we have any entitlement to have a chili con carne canon, but invariably you will be served the exact same thing if you order it anywhere.
posted by plonkee at 12:47 AM on February 29
In the UK it is canonically the same as bolognese except with chili and red kidney beans. Not that we have any entitlement to have a chili con carne canon, but invariably you will be served the exact same thing if you order it anywhere.
posted by plonkee at 12:47 AM on February 29
When Lt. Columbo takes time out from detective work for a meal break, his default meal is a bowl of chili. Improved by crushing a fistful of crackers and letting the crumbles fall on top.
Recipe in Polish
posted by bartleby at 12:52 AM on February 29 [3 favorites]
Recipe in Polish
posted by bartleby at 12:52 AM on February 29 [3 favorites]
While you could make a chili dish with kangaroo, it would just not be the same.
Kangaroo has a chewy, gamey texture that does not to me (an Aussie) feel like what you would call a say Tex-Mex style chili.
That said, give it a crack! The other problem with kangaroo is it stinks while cooking, so if attempting, do it outside.
posted by chmmr at 1:03 AM on February 29
Kangaroo has a chewy, gamey texture that does not to me (an Aussie) feel like what you would call a say Tex-Mex style chili.
That said, give it a crack! The other problem with kangaroo is it stinks while cooking, so if attempting, do it outside.
posted by chmmr at 1:03 AM on February 29
As a Pregeant, I think 'Cajun Chili' just sounds like what you tell a bunch of Aggies you're making so you can serve them Andouille until they leave Opelousas
posted by eustatic at 1:46 AM on February 29 [3 favorites]
posted by eustatic at 1:46 AM on February 29 [3 favorites]
When I add beans, I say a quiet “fuck texas” over the pot, and it always tastes delicious.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:49 AM on February 29 [25 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 2:49 AM on February 29 [25 favorites]
This is a candidate for Best Damn Post Ever, 2024 Edition. Flagged as delicious. Thank you, Greg_Ace! I do turkey chili most of the time these days, frequently with a side of “Mexican” cornbread that I expect originated in the Crocker region of “Mexico.”
posted by cupcakeninja at 3:24 AM on February 29 [3 favorites]
posted by cupcakeninja at 3:24 AM on February 29 [3 favorites]
As a lifelong hater of beans, the Texas style of chili is a godsend, and gives me an excuse for leaving them out. "Wait, where are the beans?" someone will ask, and I'll say, "oh, I only make authentic Texas style chili," which allows me to replace my embarrassment at being a picky eater with my embarrassment at sounding like a snobby asshole.
But even then, I'm open to a whole bunch of variety. For one, every time I make sausage, there's always a little meat left in the stuffer, so I wrap it up and toss it in the freezer. When chili making time comes around, I grab five or six chunks of leftover sausage meat from the freezer, and they go in the pot, too. Chunks of beef (I just prefer it to ground) mixed in with bits of bratwurst, polish sausage, andouille, chorizo, breakfast sausage, or whatever (but not Jerk sausage, those flavors didn't play well with chili), onions, celery, dried chilies, a chipotle or two, a whole mess of cumin, a bunch of white pepper, and a ton of oregano. I usually add a can or two of dark beer, then crushed tomatoes, then water from reconstituting the dried chiles, if I have it.
To me, the spices are what says "this is chili, not (meat stew from other cuisine)." Without cumin, without oregano, it just doesn't taste like chili to me. With the right spices? Sure, why not "white chili" with chicken and chicken stock (no beans, please). Hell, I'd give a chili spiced version of mapo tofu a go, though I imagine it would be weird as hell at first, before just being delicious.
posted by Ghidorah at 3:30 AM on February 29 [7 favorites]
But even then, I'm open to a whole bunch of variety. For one, every time I make sausage, there's always a little meat left in the stuffer, so I wrap it up and toss it in the freezer. When chili making time comes around, I grab five or six chunks of leftover sausage meat from the freezer, and they go in the pot, too. Chunks of beef (I just prefer it to ground) mixed in with bits of bratwurst, polish sausage, andouille, chorizo, breakfast sausage, or whatever (but not Jerk sausage, those flavors didn't play well with chili), onions, celery, dried chilies, a chipotle or two, a whole mess of cumin, a bunch of white pepper, and a ton of oregano. I usually add a can or two of dark beer, then crushed tomatoes, then water from reconstituting the dried chiles, if I have it.
To me, the spices are what says "this is chili, not (meat stew from other cuisine)." Without cumin, without oregano, it just doesn't taste like chili to me. With the right spices? Sure, why not "white chili" with chicken and chicken stock (no beans, please). Hell, I'd give a chili spiced version of mapo tofu a go, though I imagine it would be weird as hell at first, before just being delicious.
posted by Ghidorah at 3:30 AM on February 29 [7 favorites]
"How is it different from spaghetti bolognaise with a lot of chilli?"
That has spaghetti. Chili is sometimes served on macaroni, though more usually with rice. I hope this clears things up.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 4:00 AM on February 29
That has spaghetti. Chili is sometimes served on macaroni, though more usually with rice. I hope this clears things up.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 4:00 AM on February 29
Belated apologies to Ghidorah, but....I mean, I'm a Rancho Gordo stan, I'm going to have beans in my chili. My last bean club box even included a variety they said is especially good in chili.
Here's a list of the chili recipes they have on their site.
Rowan Family Black Bean Chili
Rancho Gordo Chili Sin Carne
Rancho Gordo Chili Con Carne
Bison Chili with Chocolate
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:04 AM on February 29 [3 favorites]
Here's a list of the chili recipes they have on their site.
Rowan Family Black Bean Chili
Rancho Gordo Chili Sin Carne
Rancho Gordo Chili Con Carne
Bison Chili with Chocolate
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:04 AM on February 29 [3 favorites]
Then there's Chili, NY. It's pronounced chye lye. Whiskey tango foxtrot.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:15 AM on February 29 [3 favorites]
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:15 AM on February 29 [3 favorites]
Excellent post!
Growing up in Sweden, we often got “chili con carne” in the school cafeteria - basically a bolognese with canned white beans. It was always a favorite, but absolutely did not have more than a tiny smidge of actual chili in it!
These days I favor the Messy Apron version of a crockpot chili. Takes a bit of prep, but is super tasty and makes enough to freeze or to serve to guests. I use ground turkey for part of it, and I think the key here is including spicy Italian sausage meat and slow cooking. So delicious!
FTR I do not like the Cincinnati version of chili, served on spaghetti. I think the spices are off somehow, and it feels too greasy for me. At least the Skyline/commercial varieties, that is.
Time to make some chili this weekend, looks like!
posted by gemmy at 4:34 AM on February 29
Growing up in Sweden, we often got “chili con carne” in the school cafeteria - basically a bolognese with canned white beans. It was always a favorite, but absolutely did not have more than a tiny smidge of actual chili in it!
These days I favor the Messy Apron version of a crockpot chili. Takes a bit of prep, but is super tasty and makes enough to freeze or to serve to guests. I use ground turkey for part of it, and I think the key here is including spicy Italian sausage meat and slow cooking. So delicious!
FTR I do not like the Cincinnati version of chili, served on spaghetti. I think the spices are off somehow, and it feels too greasy for me. At least the Skyline/commercial varieties, that is.
Time to make some chili this weekend, looks like!
posted by gemmy at 4:34 AM on February 29
I'm making chili this weekend too, but mostly because I have cooked, shredded short rib meat to use up. I got a call a few weeks ago from my friend -- "I need you to come get some beef, it's an emergency." (This sort of emergency is what happens when a person has half a home-raised beef cow frozen in a chest freezer that is plugged into a stupid GFI outlet that clicks off unexpectedly.) Like a good friend, I hied over to her place right away, got twenty pounds of partly-defrosted beef (mostly short ribs) and cooked it up that day so that it wouldn't be wasted. Once it was cooked to softness, I shredded the cooked meat and froze it in ready-to-use packets. Yay, free beef.
But also in the course of this beef emergency, I discovered that short rib meat doesn't skimp on the beefy flavor. (I do not buy beef. I have friends who raise a beef annually and provide me with beef on request. I'm a household of one and I eat maybe five pounds of beef a year in normal years. I had not, heretofore, spent much time with cuts of beef other than "burger" and this was my first time meeting short ribs. I had to google what to do with it, but again, one must rise to the occasion during beef emergencies.) Because of the very beefy flavor and exceptional richness, which is kind of... a lot... short rib meat needs to be used in something pretty robust. Chili fits the bill perfectly. Five stars, would recommend.
posted by which_chick at 5:07 AM on February 29 [8 favorites]
But also in the course of this beef emergency, I discovered that short rib meat doesn't skimp on the beefy flavor. (I do not buy beef. I have friends who raise a beef annually and provide me with beef on request. I'm a household of one and I eat maybe five pounds of beef a year in normal years. I had not, heretofore, spent much time with cuts of beef other than "burger" and this was my first time meeting short ribs. I had to google what to do with it, but again, one must rise to the occasion during beef emergencies.) Because of the very beefy flavor and exceptional richness, which is kind of... a lot... short rib meat needs to be used in something pretty robust. Chili fits the bill perfectly. Five stars, would recommend.
posted by which_chick at 5:07 AM on February 29 [8 favorites]
I always add a small amount of sausage and a tablespoon or two of cocoa powder. And sometimes I use "meatloaf mix" (beef, veal, and pork) instead of just beef. I'm from New York, so no one gets offended.
posted by tommasz at 5:08 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 5:08 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
When my parents got married my dad took his family’s chili recipe and added some influence from my mom’s side. I took that and have added different things to it over the years to get what I consider to be my own personal chili recipe. From a Texas standpoint, it’s heretic chili, but it’s wonderful to have a hot bowl of it on a cold day.
First time I made chili for my wife (we were engaged at the time but not yet married), she kept coming over to my place, reheating the leftovers, until there was nothing left. I took that as a good sign. I’ve tried various other chilis over the years, but even at a chili cookoff trying tons of different variants she quietly told me “I like yours best.” I tried one of the Serious Eats chili verde recipes once, and while I liked it, she was not a fan - “this is ok but when you said you were making chili, I expected chili, not this.” (One other attempt, in which I made my usual chili but used tomatillo instead of tomato, with ground pork, white beans, and no other modifications from the norm, she did like.)
So it’s not Texas chili, it probably isn’t the world’s greatest chili, but it is the world’s best to the one person who matters to me most, so there. I win.
Ground or coarsely chopped beef or other meat (bison, pork, turkey, etc.), I use a mix of canned bean varieties for convenience (draining the bean juice unless they are seasoned black or chili beans), dried or fresh peppers (rehydrate in boiling water, then drain and blend - if no fresh or dried peppers available a can of chipotle in adobo sauce works well in a pinch), can of corn (yes, corn, my dad always added it, it feels WRONG to me not to include a southwestern staple vegetable in a southwestern staple dish!), mushrooms (diced portobellos are nice), chopped or crushed tomato, chili powder (mix of plain, ancho, and paprika, which is a sweet chili, adding flavor without ramping heat up too high), cumin (usually toast seeds then grind), garlic, ginger (added because I read it in a James Clavell novel, tried it, and liked the extra punch). That’s the basic gist. There is no real written recipe, because if you are following a written recipe you are not making chili. What feels right to you right now is an important part of the process.
posted by caution live frogs at 5:17 AM on February 29 [5 favorites]
First time I made chili for my wife (we were engaged at the time but not yet married), she kept coming over to my place, reheating the leftovers, until there was nothing left. I took that as a good sign. I’ve tried various other chilis over the years, but even at a chili cookoff trying tons of different variants she quietly told me “I like yours best.” I tried one of the Serious Eats chili verde recipes once, and while I liked it, she was not a fan - “this is ok but when you said you were making chili, I expected chili, not this.” (One other attempt, in which I made my usual chili but used tomatillo instead of tomato, with ground pork, white beans, and no other modifications from the norm, she did like.)
So it’s not Texas chili, it probably isn’t the world’s greatest chili, but it is the world’s best to the one person who matters to me most, so there. I win.
Ground or coarsely chopped beef or other meat (bison, pork, turkey, etc.), I use a mix of canned bean varieties for convenience (draining the bean juice unless they are seasoned black or chili beans), dried or fresh peppers (rehydrate in boiling water, then drain and blend - if no fresh or dried peppers available a can of chipotle in adobo sauce works well in a pinch), can of corn (yes, corn, my dad always added it, it feels WRONG to me not to include a southwestern staple vegetable in a southwestern staple dish!), mushrooms (diced portobellos are nice), chopped or crushed tomato, chili powder (mix of plain, ancho, and paprika, which is a sweet chili, adding flavor without ramping heat up too high), cumin (usually toast seeds then grind), garlic, ginger (added because I read it in a James Clavell novel, tried it, and liked the extra punch). That’s the basic gist. There is no real written recipe, because if you are following a written recipe you are not making chili. What feels right to you right now is an important part of the process.
posted by caution live frogs at 5:17 AM on February 29 [5 favorites]
Chili is sometimes served on macaroni, though more usually with rice.
Texas style chili is best served though either by itself or over Doritos. Just open a snack-sized bag of Doritos into a bowl and add a scoop of chili. If you don't have a bowl, you can pour the chili directly into the opened bag.
And chili cooks-offs may be starting to outnumber barbeque cook-offs in my part of Texas and the Terlingua Chili Cook Off led the way.
posted by beaning at 5:55 AM on February 29
Texas style chili is best served though either by itself or over Doritos. Just open a snack-sized bag of Doritos into a bowl and add a scoop of chili. If you don't have a bowl, you can pour the chili directly into the opened bag.
And chili cooks-offs may be starting to outnumber barbeque cook-offs in my part of Texas and the Terlingua Chili Cook Off led the way.
posted by beaning at 5:55 AM on February 29
As a Texan, I believe that Texas chili is chile con carne. That said, I prefer a bean-based chili.
You do you.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 6:01 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
You do you.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 6:01 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
"How is it different from spaghetti bolognaise with a lot of chilli?"
That has spaghetti. Chili is sometimes served on macaroni, though more usually with rice. I hope this clears things up.
The latter is chili-mac. The former is huh?
posted by slogger at 6:01 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
That has spaghetti. Chili is sometimes served on macaroni, though more usually with rice. I hope this clears things up.
The latter is chili-mac. The former is huh?
posted by slogger at 6:01 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
Then there's Chili, NY. It's pronounced chye lye. Whiskey tango foxtrot.
GCU Sweet and Full of Grace
New Yorkers are always pronouncing Texan terms incorrectly, like Houston.
posted by star gentle uterus at 6:17 AM on February 29 [5 favorites]
GCU Sweet and Full of Grace
New Yorkers are always pronouncing Texan terms incorrectly, like Houston.
posted by star gentle uterus at 6:17 AM on February 29 [5 favorites]
Chili is sometimes served on macaroni, though more usually with rice. I hope this clears things up.
This must be a regional variation? I've never seen this before. (Don't get me wrong, I would totally eat chili on macaroni, but I've never encountered that combination aside from boxed mac and cheese with a can of "chili" dumped in. Chili on rice does not sound appealing to me.)
Adding on - the recipes and history posted look amazing, but the question above is genuine confusion. I always assumed it was a special beef curry that was very American sort of like the strangeness of Chicago deep dish and your thanksgiving side dishes, but these descriptions make it so that what I ate last night (Chinese-Thai olive rice!) would count as Chilli. What makes chilli american/texmex?
I've never had olive rice before, but if the recipes from googling it are correct, I can't see any overlap between that and American chili in terms of ingredients or cooking methods. Despite all the variations listed, they mostly aren't all that different and all of them are recognizable from a pretty consistent flavor profile from chiles (native to the American southwest and northern Mexico), ranging from extremely mild (barely any heat or chile flavor) to intense. It's like how someone might say a ham sandwich with mustard is completely different from a ham sandwich with mayo, but really they are both completely recognizable as ham sandwiches. The cooking technique is the same as any braised/stewed dish, including curries and so on, but with distinct ingredients and flavors.
I tried one of the Serious Eats chili verde recipes once, and while I liked it, she was not a fan - “this is ok but when you said you were making chili, I expected chili, not this.”
I think of chili verde as belonging on the same continuum as New Mexican green chile stew, which is very, very good but with a quite different flavor profile from the more common tomato-based chilis. And all of the chili variations are on the same continuum as many of the Mexican guisados, but recognizably different.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:17 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
This must be a regional variation? I've never seen this before. (Don't get me wrong, I would totally eat chili on macaroni, but I've never encountered that combination aside from boxed mac and cheese with a can of "chili" dumped in. Chili on rice does not sound appealing to me.)
Adding on - the recipes and history posted look amazing, but the question above is genuine confusion. I always assumed it was a special beef curry that was very American sort of like the strangeness of Chicago deep dish and your thanksgiving side dishes, but these descriptions make it so that what I ate last night (Chinese-Thai olive rice!) would count as Chilli. What makes chilli american/texmex?
I've never had olive rice before, but if the recipes from googling it are correct, I can't see any overlap between that and American chili in terms of ingredients or cooking methods. Despite all the variations listed, they mostly aren't all that different and all of them are recognizable from a pretty consistent flavor profile from chiles (native to the American southwest and northern Mexico), ranging from extremely mild (barely any heat or chile flavor) to intense. It's like how someone might say a ham sandwich with mustard is completely different from a ham sandwich with mayo, but really they are both completely recognizable as ham sandwiches. The cooking technique is the same as any braised/stewed dish, including curries and so on, but with distinct ingredients and flavors.
I tried one of the Serious Eats chili verde recipes once, and while I liked it, she was not a fan - “this is ok but when you said you were making chili, I expected chili, not this.”
I think of chili verde as belonging on the same continuum as New Mexican green chile stew, which is very, very good but with a quite different flavor profile from the more common tomato-based chilis. And all of the chili variations are on the same continuum as many of the Mexican guisados, but recognizably different.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:17 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
A friend once served her family's Cincinnati Chili. It was very puzzling to me, a New Englander. I'm used to a very un-Texas chili with beans, sometimes meat, canned tomatoes, onions and garlic, sometimes bell peppers, sometimes corn, and, to be honest, pre-ground spices. I may try it with proper whole dried chilis sometime when I have time. But chili is usually a quick dinner fix for me. Definitely never eaten over spaghetti or macaroni or rice. Eat with cornbread or tortilla chips. Probably could stir up some trouble talking about cornbread, though. . . .
posted by carrioncomfort at 6:47 AM on February 29 [3 favorites]
posted by carrioncomfort at 6:47 AM on February 29 [3 favorites]
My wife and daughter will really only eat chili if it's served over spaghetti. Macaroni is frowned upon and rice is a hard no (though I am fine with any of these, or none at all, or, like Columbo, with crackers). In truth, I think they don't really like chili and only want spaghetti in the first place.
Since it's received with only mild enthusiasm at best, I have never gotten too worked up about elaborate recipes for chili. I always use ground beef and kidney beans. I often use just a little chipotle in adobo, but only if I remember to buy some. Once in a while, I might use some finely diced jalapeno instead, but I like the smoky flavor of the chipotle better.. Red and green bell peppers, onion, and garlic, of course. Canned crushed tomatoes. Supermarket "chili powder" with some additional cumin, along with oregano, basil and thyme. A dash of cayenne.
posted by briank at 6:51 AM on February 29
Since it's received with only mild enthusiasm at best, I have never gotten too worked up about elaborate recipes for chili. I always use ground beef and kidney beans. I often use just a little chipotle in adobo, but only if I remember to buy some. Once in a while, I might use some finely diced jalapeno instead, but I like the smoky flavor of the chipotle better.. Red and green bell peppers, onion, and garlic, of course. Canned crushed tomatoes. Supermarket "chili powder" with some additional cumin, along with oregano, basil and thyme. A dash of cayenne.
posted by briank at 6:51 AM on February 29
I really ought to try more chili recipes, but the Randomlet loves my standard version and begs for it every couple weeks through the winter and spring, so *shrug*.
(For spicing, it's dried peppers from the ristra picked up in Hatch (usually Anaheims), half a bottle of cumin, oregano, garlic, and a couple bay leaves.)
posted by Quasirandom at 6:56 AM on February 29
(For spicing, it's dried peppers from the ristra picked up in Hatch (usually Anaheims), half a bottle of cumin, oregano, garlic, and a couple bay leaves.)
posted by Quasirandom at 6:56 AM on February 29
In "The Enchanted Kiss," O. Henry, who lived in Texas from 1882 (when he moved there in the hope that the climate would improve his breathing) to 1896 (when he jumped bail as an embezzler), writes of chili con carne "composed of delicate meats minced with aromatic herbs and the poignant chili colorado"; those delicate meats apparently usually consisting of "the beef or the chicken," but sometimes, on very special occasions, carved from "the flesh of the senorita--young and tender."
He makes no mention of beans.
posted by what does it eat, light? at 6:56 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
He makes no mention of beans.
posted by what does it eat, light? at 6:56 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
Cincinnati/Skyline Chili - Ground beef and/or pork, a sweeter flavor using some combination of cinnamon/chocolate/allspice/cloves/nutmeg, paprika, Worcestershire. Doesn't usually contain beans. (emphasis mine)
Lifelong Cincinnati-area resident here: "Doesn't usually contain beans" should be changed to "Doesn't contain beans by default."
Cincinnati chili on its own is just a Greek-inspired meat sauce, and nobody (except for some true weirdoes) eats it on its own like Texas-style chili. You can put it on spaghetti or hot dogs (i.e. a "coney"), or stick it in a burrito, but to know how people here typically enjoy it, you have to understand the "way" system:
3-Way: Chili, spaghetti, and shredded cheese (usually but not always cheddar)
4-Way: 3-Way plus either onions OR beans
5-Way: 3-Way plus onions AND beans
I would argue that the 5-Way -- WITH BEANS -- is the ideal arrangement of Cincinnati chili and toppings, and the choice of true connoisseurs. The other two are for people with more sensitive digestive systems that react non-ideally to onions/beans.
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:09 AM on February 29 [3 favorites]
Lifelong Cincinnati-area resident here: "Doesn't usually contain beans" should be changed to "Doesn't contain beans by default."
Cincinnati chili on its own is just a Greek-inspired meat sauce, and nobody (except for some true weirdoes) eats it on its own like Texas-style chili. You can put it on spaghetti or hot dogs (i.e. a "coney"), or stick it in a burrito, but to know how people here typically enjoy it, you have to understand the "way" system:
3-Way: Chili, spaghetti, and shredded cheese (usually but not always cheddar)
4-Way: 3-Way plus either onions OR beans
5-Way: 3-Way plus onions AND beans
I would argue that the 5-Way -- WITH BEANS -- is the ideal arrangement of Cincinnati chili and toppings, and the choice of true connoisseurs. The other two are for people with more sensitive digestive systems that react non-ideally to onions/beans.
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:09 AM on February 29 [3 favorites]
The famously most important question in New Mexico is “Red or Green?”, “chile” is implied. Almost always the correct answer is “Christmas.”
The recipe here, but stopping with only the red chiles (no spices, meat, etc) would be a solid example of a “red chile.”
Green chile, again as opposed to its constituent roasted green chiles, varies wildly but I think the best is usually a very roasty purée of green Chiles only flavored with salt. Adding any chunky veggies, meat etc makes the same thing north of the New Mexico-Colorado border Green Chile the same as the more rare Green Chile Stew south of the line.
Also, no Frito Chile Pie? This patchy regional favorite has baffled my most hipster of friends who believed it was supposed to be a real crusted pie.
And don’t forget Coneys, a phenomenon definitely not limited to Michigan.
posted by rubatan at 7:12 AM on February 29 [5 favorites]
The recipe here, but stopping with only the red chiles (no spices, meat, etc) would be a solid example of a “red chile.”
Green chile, again as opposed to its constituent roasted green chiles, varies wildly but I think the best is usually a very roasty purée of green Chiles only flavored with salt. Adding any chunky veggies, meat etc makes the same thing north of the New Mexico-Colorado border Green Chile the same as the more rare Green Chile Stew south of the line.
Also, no Frito Chile Pie? This patchy regional favorite has baffled my most hipster of friends who believed it was supposed to be a real crusted pie.
And don’t forget Coneys, a phenomenon definitely not limited to Michigan.
posted by rubatan at 7:12 AM on February 29 [5 favorites]
Oh oh oh oh! I have some good, if very hyper-local, good news for chili fans in NYC (or planning to visit NYC) for March 10th!
...so, back in 2004, this Brooklyn actor named Matt Timms got the idea to start hosing amateur chili cookoffs in a bar in Brooklyn somewhere. That really caught on, and he started expanding into other cookoffs - macaroni-and-cheese, ice cream, cookies, and bacon (including one such cookoff in 2009, which both I and erstwhile Mefite GregNog joined; that one got covered by Good Morning America, and the winning entry was a bourbon-bacon ice cream which Diane Sawyer said "sounds like Kentucky porn").
This became Timms' job, basically, and the competitions (or "Takedowns") got corporate sponsorship and some swanky prizes. There's a judges' prize, but there's also a peoples' vote prize, voted on by happy guests who sample all the entrants' offerings. Then Covid and just overwhelm put the brakes on things for a while.
Well - Timms is bringing the Takedowns back, starting once again with Chili. If you're looking for something to do on the afternoon of March 10th, and you'll be close enough to Brooklyn and can get a ticket, stop by.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:22 AM on February 29
...so, back in 2004, this Brooklyn actor named Matt Timms got the idea to start hosing amateur chili cookoffs in a bar in Brooklyn somewhere. That really caught on, and he started expanding into other cookoffs - macaroni-and-cheese, ice cream, cookies, and bacon (including one such cookoff in 2009, which both I and erstwhile Mefite GregNog joined; that one got covered by Good Morning America, and the winning entry was a bourbon-bacon ice cream which Diane Sawyer said "sounds like Kentucky porn").
This became Timms' job, basically, and the competitions (or "Takedowns") got corporate sponsorship and some swanky prizes. There's a judges' prize, but there's also a peoples' vote prize, voted on by happy guests who sample all the entrants' offerings. Then Covid and just overwhelm put the brakes on things for a while.
Well - Timms is bringing the Takedowns back, starting once again with Chili. If you're looking for something to do on the afternoon of March 10th, and you'll be close enough to Brooklyn and can get a ticket, stop by.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:22 AM on February 29
chili was invented in Sudbury Ontario: ground road kill, cigarette butts, and spittoon sputum
posted by elkevelvet at 7:38 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
posted by elkevelvet at 7:38 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
Ya know, I have to wonder just who in the hell is being a gatekeeper about chili. Make them run through a field of thorns and dive into a vat of habañero juice … naked.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 7:43 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 7:43 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
How is it different from spaghetti bolognaise with a lot of chilli?
The spice mix is different. Garlic and onions are common, but oregano is not common. Basil, thyme, oregano = spaghetti sauce.
cumin, chili peppers = chili
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:45 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
The spice mix is different. Garlic and onions are common, but oregano is not common. Basil, thyme, oregano = spaghetti sauce.
cumin, chili peppers = chili
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:45 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
What makes chilli american/texmex?
OP is intentionally being inclusive about the weird offshoots of chili but classic chili con carne is gonna have classically Tex/Mex spices and pepper varieties:
Without cumin, without oregano, it just doesn't taste like chili to me.
And if you’re not in deep Tex-Mex territory (or if you’re getting it from a can) a lot of times it will have beans, which is why chili connoisseur feel the need to stress that it shouldn’t.
posted by atoxyl at 7:58 AM on February 29
OP is intentionally being inclusive about the weird offshoots of chili but classic chili con carne is gonna have classically Tex/Mex spices and pepper varieties:
Without cumin, without oregano, it just doesn't taste like chili to me.
And if you’re not in deep Tex-Mex territory (or if you’re getting it from a can) a lot of times it will have beans, which is why chili connoisseur feel the need to stress that it shouldn’t.
posted by atoxyl at 7:58 AM on February 29
“The secret’s in the cinnamon. See, what you do is you take that cinnamon, and you put it in the cupboard and keep it away from your chili, because it’s got no damn business being there in the first place.” - Bos, from Halt and Catch Fire, line read and made legendary by one of the indisputably greatest linereaders Toby Huss.
posted by General Malaise at 8:16 AM on February 29 [8 favorites]
posted by General Malaise at 8:16 AM on February 29 [8 favorites]
I am very fond of chili and make it numerous ways, depending on mood. If you have access to a good variety of fresh chili pods, using those is in fact a quite different effect than powder. A good ratio for getting started is two each of anchos, pasillas, guijillos, and a couple or three arbols, for each pound of meat. Round out the seasonings with a teaspoon of salt, a teaspoon of cumin, a half tsp of oregano, and a couple of cloves of garlic, also per pound of meat.
I prep the chili pods by splitting them, seeding and coring, and tearing into 1" square pieces. Place these in a pint or quart Pyrex measure and drown with boiling hot water. Soak for 10 minutes, and place the rehydrated pieces in a blender or food processor to puree, with some of the soaking liquid. Optionally rub the puree through a mesh strainer to remove pieces of skin.
You can add a 8oz can of tomato sauce per pound of meat but it will be plenty red without that.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 8:19 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
I prep the chili pods by splitting them, seeding and coring, and tearing into 1" square pieces. Place these in a pint or quart Pyrex measure and drown with boiling hot water. Soak for 10 minutes, and place the rehydrated pieces in a blender or food processor to puree, with some of the soaking liquid. Optionally rub the puree through a mesh strainer to remove pieces of skin.
You can add a 8oz can of tomato sauce per pound of meat but it will be plenty red without that.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 8:19 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
The Kenji recipe is basically my go-to, and I've recently gotten to a place where I can have a garden and grow my own ingredients to some extent. So, how important are dried chiles for that recipe? What if I grow the variety of chiles I want in my own garden - can I just puree fresh ones (stems and seeds removed; slightly toasted chiles) with broth and cook the meat in that or does drying the chiles out first and then reconstituting them inherently do something to the flavor?
posted by LionIndex at 8:24 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
posted by LionIndex at 8:24 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
This thread would not be complete without a mention of Kevin's Famous Chili from the American version of The Office.
posted by indexy at 8:24 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
posted by indexy at 8:24 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
twenty pounds of ... beef (mostly short ribs)
I envy you intensely.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:28 AM on February 29
I envy you intensely.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:28 AM on February 29
My general feeling is that any chili recipe that has “too many ingredients” deserves some side eye. To my mind, it’s peasant food — hearty, fairly cheap, made from what’s close — and getting too fancy or expensive kind of misses the point. How many ingredients are “too many” and how the ingredients are counted varies by day, weather, and mood.
I once one second place in a chili cookoff in Texas, so I have some credentials. I will confess that a) it had too many ingredients, b) was the only vegan or vegetarian option (so it tied up those votes), and c) was spicier than planned (so it picked up votes from spice lovers). I still count it as a victory, even with the asterisks.
Like a lot of things, the best chili is the one I am about to eat.
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:31 AM on February 29 [5 favorites]
I once one second place in a chili cookoff in Texas, so I have some credentials. I will confess that a) it had too many ingredients, b) was the only vegan or vegetarian option (so it tied up those votes), and c) was spicier than planned (so it picked up votes from spice lovers). I still count it as a victory, even with the asterisks.
Like a lot of things, the best chili is the one I am about to eat.
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:31 AM on February 29 [5 favorites]
There's either some incredible coincident evolution going on, or chili con carne somehow was derived from qorma from Afghanistan. They are remarkably similar, yet from completely other sides of the world.
→
Texans are always pronouncing Scottish terms incorrectly, like Houston.
posted by scruss at 9:11 AM on February 29 [4 favorites]
→
New Yorkers are always pronouncing Texan terms incorrectly, like Houston.
Texans are always pronouncing Scottish terms incorrectly, like Houston.
posted by scruss at 9:11 AM on February 29 [4 favorites]
So, how important are dried chiles for that recipe? What if I grow the variety of chiles I want in my own garden - can I just puree fresh ones ... or does drying the chiles out first and then reconstituting them inherently do something to the flavor?
Interesting question! From what I can gather after a quick and non-exhaustive search (which TBF isn't a whole lot), yes the flavors are different. Fresh chiles have a brighter flavor and a more immediate up-front heat, while the flavor of dried chiles is more complex and the heat - if any, after being de-seeded - has a slower release. I guess it's sort of like fresh vs dry-aged beef - they both make good steaks, but the end result doesn't taste the same.
But I think a more significant difference is which varieties you want to grow. The ones I mentioned in my recipe above:
I personally say go for it either way, and experiment!
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:17 AM on February 29 [3 favorites]
Interesting question! From what I can gather after a quick and non-exhaustive search (which TBF isn't a whole lot), yes the flavors are different. Fresh chiles have a brighter flavor and a more immediate up-front heat, while the flavor of dried chiles is more complex and the heat - if any, after being de-seeded - has a slower release. I guess it's sort of like fresh vs dry-aged beef - they both make good steaks, but the end result doesn't taste the same.
But I think a more significant difference is which varieties you want to grow. The ones I mentioned in my recipe above:
sweet chilies like New Mexico/California/Anaheim, Costeño, or Choricero...are the "traditional" chiles from the southwestern US/northern Mexico - though note that the dried versions are often named differently from the fresh versions. (I wish I'd included that info in the FPP!) If you're going to use your own fresh versions of those in your recipe you'll get an at least somewhat different dish than if you used them dried. If you're going to grow different chiles entirely, i.e ones that aren't common to those US/Mexican regions, then some people would suggest you're no longer making chili.
rich fruity chiles like Ancho, Negro, Pasilla, or Mulatto
smoky chiles like Guajillo, Nora, or Pasilla de Oaxaca
smoked chiles (Chipotle/Meca/Morita)
small hot chiles like Cascabel or Arbol
I personally say go for it either way, and experiment!
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:17 AM on February 29 [3 favorites]
There's either some incredible coincident evolution going on, or chili con carne somehow was derived from qorma from Afghanistan. They are remarkably similar, yet from completely other sides of the world.
Might not be a real thing, but one possible avenue is: Muslim conquest of Al Andalus => reconquista => Colombian exchange (Afghan food wouldn't have had chiles prior to this either) => Spanish Colonization of Americas => people herding animals and wanting to eat stew on opposite sides of the planet have similar ingredients on hand
posted by LionIndex at 9:19 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
Might not be a real thing, but one possible avenue is: Muslim conquest of Al Andalus => reconquista => Colombian exchange (Afghan food wouldn't have had chiles prior to this either) => Spanish Colonization of Americas => people herding animals and wanting to eat stew on opposite sides of the planet have similar ingredients on hand
posted by LionIndex at 9:19 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
Chili toppings (or starchy things underneath the chili) are another thing altogether. My house growing up was always shredded cheddar cheese and some Fritos, which I would invariably use as a tiny spoon to pick out bits of chili to eat. My dad put Fritos at the bottom of the bowl, my brothers and I liked them on top so they would stay crunchy. My wife added sour cream, which has become an automatic staple add in our house and can be great to temper chili that is on the “way too spicy” side for the consumer. Occasionally we do cornbread. I like the chili cheese Fritos, my son likes the plain scoops, which he uses as … a tiny spoon, full circle from my own childhood.
I’ve tried chopped avocado as a topping, or cilantro, both can be nice. I’ve seen macaroni, spaghetti, rice, crackers, tortilla strips or chips. Chopped chili peppers? What else do people put on top?
posted by caution live frogs at 9:21 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
I’ve tried chopped avocado as a topping, or cilantro, both can be nice. I’ve seen macaroni, spaghetti, rice, crackers, tortilla strips or chips. Chopped chili peppers? What else do people put on top?
posted by caution live frogs at 9:21 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
chili con carne ... qorma from Afghanistan ... are remarkably similar, yet from completely other sides of the world.
Similar method maybe (and yes, a very common one worldwide) but entirely different flavor profiles. Bear in mind that "peppers" are very much not all the same!
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:24 AM on February 29
Similar method maybe (and yes, a very common one worldwide) but entirely different flavor profiles. Bear in mind that "peppers" are very much not all the same!
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:24 AM on February 29
As a kid in Pennsylvania, our chili consisted of fried hamburger, 2 cans of kidney beans, a can of crushed tomatoes, and some red pepper. Optional to serve over macaroni.
Moving to Idaho and eating "Mexican chili" made by Abuela Rose was earthshaking. Chili con carne Texas style was an eye-opener. The first time I had green chili in Albuquerque, I thought I'd died and gone to chili heaven.
But the best chili of all is the one that's provided pot-luck by my riding club, made of various brands of canned chili brought by members, tossed in a cast iron pot and heated on a Coleman on a windy, rainy day, then eaten standing with friends under a tarp stretched between two horse trailers over a campfire after a 14-mile ride. Trotting through the canyons scented with the smell of sage and rabbit brush around you, wiping rain off your face, makes for a powerful hunger. Served with pre-grated cheese over Fritos and chopped onion, it's the food of the gods.
Most people bring Stagg, Hormel, or Nalley (shudder) and I wouldn't have any of that stuff in my house, but right now I'm kind of hoping it rains again on the first ride in April this year.
posted by BlueHorse at 9:24 AM on February 29 [4 favorites]
Moving to Idaho and eating "Mexican chili" made by Abuela Rose was earthshaking. Chili con carne Texas style was an eye-opener. The first time I had green chili in Albuquerque, I thought I'd died and gone to chili heaven.
But the best chili of all is the one that's provided pot-luck by my riding club, made of various brands of canned chili brought by members, tossed in a cast iron pot and heated on a Coleman on a windy, rainy day, then eaten standing with friends under a tarp stretched between two horse trailers over a campfire after a 14-mile ride. Trotting through the canyons scented with the smell of sage and rabbit brush around you, wiping rain off your face, makes for a powerful hunger. Served with pre-grated cheese over Fritos and chopped onion, it's the food of the gods.
Most people bring Stagg, Hormel, or Nalley (shudder) and I wouldn't have any of that stuff in my house, but right now I'm kind of hoping it rains again on the first ride in April this year.
posted by BlueHorse at 9:24 AM on February 29 [4 favorites]
Might not be a real thing, but one possible avenue is: Muslim conquest of Al Andalus => reconquista => Colombian exchange (Afghan food wouldn't have had chiles prior to this either) => Spanish Colonization of Americas => people herding animals and wanting to eat stew on opposite sides of the planet have similar ingredients on hand
In addition to the flavor profiles being totally different, this narrative elides that chili is a culinary tradition that is native to the Americas, made from new world chiles that have long been a staple food of what is now the US southwest and Mexico. Versions of stewed chiles and meat would have predated European settlement by thousands of years.
Almost everywhere has a braised meat stew-ish dish (or many dishes) that are all cooked the same way, because braised meat stews/curries/chilis/cassoulets are delicious ways to eat tough cuts of meat, but they all taste amazingly different.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:41 AM on February 29 [4 favorites]
In addition to the flavor profiles being totally different, this narrative elides that chili is a culinary tradition that is native to the Americas, made from new world chiles that have long been a staple food of what is now the US southwest and Mexico. Versions of stewed chiles and meat would have predated European settlement by thousands of years.
Almost everywhere has a braised meat stew-ish dish (or many dishes) that are all cooked the same way, because braised meat stews/curries/chilis/cassoulets are delicious ways to eat tough cuts of meat, but they all taste amazingly different.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:41 AM on February 29 [4 favorites]
/people herding animals and wanting to eat stew on opposite sides of the planet have similar ingredients on hand
I had the pleasure of hearing cookbook author Toya Boudy talk yesterday and she commented that historically many chilis, stews and similar dishes started out as a poor man's meat plus spices plus water and slow cook till edible. Sometimes poor man's vegetable substitutes for a poor man's meat as in okra or eggplant. Then as these dishes became eaten by the upper classes, they were fancified with better meat, vega and higher quality spices. I mean, chili had to be mainstay for cattle drives with its basic formula of meat plus spice plus water to cover.
posted by beaning at 9:49 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
I had the pleasure of hearing cookbook author Toya Boudy talk yesterday and she commented that historically many chilis, stews and similar dishes started out as a poor man's meat plus spices plus water and slow cook till edible. Sometimes poor man's vegetable substitutes for a poor man's meat as in okra or eggplant. Then as these dishes became eaten by the upper classes, they were fancified with better meat, vega and higher quality spices. I mean, chili had to be mainstay for cattle drives with its basic formula of meat plus spice plus water to cover.
posted by beaning at 9:49 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
“The Big Chili”—Good Eats, Se. 8 Ep. 6, 18 August 2004
posted by ob1quixote at 9:51 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
posted by ob1quixote at 9:51 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
In addition to the flavor profiles being totally different, this narrative elides that chili is a culinary tradition that is native to the Americas, made from new world chiles that have long been a staple food of what is now the US southwest and Mexico.
I'm just saying that if you were in a place that was at one time Mexico, there might be a reason why the flavor profile you're going for with your stew has cumin in it, enough that someone familiar with qorma might notice the similarity, based on the first recipe for Afghan qorma I found having 3/4 tablespoon of cumin in it.
posted by LionIndex at 10:01 AM on February 29
I'm just saying that if you were in a place that was at one time Mexico, there might be a reason why the flavor profile you're going for with your stew has cumin in it, enough that someone familiar with qorma might notice the similarity, based on the first recipe for Afghan qorma I found having 3/4 tablespoon of cumin in it.
posted by LionIndex at 10:01 AM on February 29
Adding cinnamon/chocolate/anise isn't that odd, it's just not Tex/Mex chili. Those are the ingredients of 'mole', which is a different sauce also very common in Mexico. IMO it's usually served on chicken but I'm no expert.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:11 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:11 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
On the similarities to Afghan, Indian, North African etc… that’s the subject of a “next” FPP
posted by rubatan at 10:22 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
posted by rubatan at 10:22 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
that’s the subject of a “next” FPP
Have at it! I'm researched out and hungry for chili.
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:28 AM on February 29
Have at it! I'm researched out and hungry for chili.
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:28 AM on February 29
Fresh chiles have a brighter flavor and a more immediate up-front heat, while the flavor of dried chiles is more complex and the heat - if any, after being de-seeded - has a slower release.
Additionally, you can affect the flavor and heat of a fresh pepper by how finely you cut it. A jalapeño diced very fine will be mostly heat; larger pieces will have a little less heat and more of the “vegetal” taste will predominate. It’s fun to play with in salsas — dice one pepper finely for heat, than cut the others into bigger pieces for flavor.
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:03 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
Additionally, you can affect the flavor and heat of a fresh pepper by how finely you cut it. A jalapeño diced very fine will be mostly heat; larger pieces will have a little less heat and more of the “vegetal” taste will predominate. It’s fun to play with in salsas — dice one pepper finely for heat, than cut the others into bigger pieces for flavor.
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:03 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
*AHEM*
First of all, it is Cincinnati, not Cincinatti.
Secondly, THERE IS NO CHOCOLATE in the original Cincinnati chili parlor chili.
Thirdly, okay, now I'll go read everything else.
posted by cooker girl at 11:03 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
First of all, it is Cincinnati, not Cincinatti.
Secondly, THERE IS NO CHOCOLATE in the original Cincinnati chili parlor chili.
Thirdly, okay, now I'll go read everything else.
posted by cooker girl at 11:03 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
If you consider it acceptable to use spinach (it's healthy!) in chili, I'd qualify this as chili. I make this often, and at the minimum requires only 4 ingredients and can be made in 20 minutes. It uses packaged Mexican chorizo so you don't need any additional seasoning (if you can't get chorizo, you can make your own).
Chorizo Tomato Spinach Chili
1 medium onion, chopped
1 lb chorizo
2 cans diced tomatoes (14 oz), not drained.
~5 ounces of spinach (I use frozen, but you could use fresh)
Optionally:
1/2 cup corn (frozen or canned is fine)
1 can of your favorite beans, drain.
• Put the tomatoes and spinach in a blender. Blend completely (if your blender is too small, do it in batches. Or use a food processor, or in a bowl with an immersion blender)
• Sauté onion over medium-high heat in 2 Tb olive oil for a few minutes until soft.
• Add the chorizo and cook until completed browned.
• Add the tomato/spinach mixture and bring to a boil, then turn down to a simmer.
• (Optionally) add the corn and beans.
• Let simmer for about 10 minutes.
• Add salt as needed
Enjoy! Makes enough for 4.
posted by ShooBoo at 11:30 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
Chorizo Tomato Spinach Chili
1 medium onion, chopped
1 lb chorizo
2 cans diced tomatoes (14 oz), not drained.
~5 ounces of spinach (I use frozen, but you could use fresh)
Optionally:
1/2 cup corn (frozen or canned is fine)
1 can of your favorite beans, drain.
• Put the tomatoes and spinach in a blender. Blend completely (if your blender is too small, do it in batches. Or use a food processor, or in a bowl with an immersion blender)
• Sauté onion over medium-high heat in 2 Tb olive oil for a few minutes until soft.
• Add the chorizo and cook until completed browned.
• Add the tomato/spinach mixture and bring to a boil, then turn down to a simmer.
• (Optionally) add the corn and beans.
• Let simmer for about 10 minutes.
• Add salt as needed
Enjoy! Makes enough for 4.
posted by ShooBoo at 11:30 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
First of all, it is Cincinnati, not Cincinatti.
Dammit! I knew it was 2 n's and 1 t, and even wrote it that way in my notes! How did I miss that?? My apologies.
Secondly, THERE IS NO CHOCOLATE in the original Cincinnati chili parlor chili.
The sources I found disagreed with you but - land of contrasts, and all that. And I'm pretty sure that any mentions of "chocolate" are referring to unsweetened chocolate/cocoa (as in mole), not like...Toll House chocolate chips, or something. But again, my apologies.
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:33 AM on February 29
Dammit! I knew it was 2 n's and 1 t, and even wrote it that way in my notes! How did I miss that?? My apologies.
Secondly, THERE IS NO CHOCOLATE in the original Cincinnati chili parlor chili.
The sources I found disagreed with you but - land of contrasts, and all that. And I'm pretty sure that any mentions of "chocolate" are referring to unsweetened chocolate/cocoa (as in mole), not like...Toll House chocolate chips, or something. But again, my apologies.
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:33 AM on February 29
Unless the lyrics to Big Iron have deceived me we've lost twenty men to Texas Red, and I'm not looking to be number twenty-one.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 11:38 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
posted by Parasite Unseen at 11:38 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
The eternal chili debate in our house is always around which version to make. I grew up with a bog-standard approach, with turkey, beans, tomatoes, chili powder etc. I like it but my partner loooves it. I really end up preferring ones more with meat chunks and a bunch of dried peppers making a paste. Despite the nostalgia for me, the beautiful pepper flavor has become very important to me. But I'll make both, just means we have more discussions around which chili to make.
posted by Carillon at 11:39 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
posted by Carillon at 11:39 AM on February 29 [1 favorite]
Every year my homebrew club holds a chili cookoff in February and every year I place in the top 3/win. And every year I try and make a different chili/style to have fun with it. Here's this year's recipe (at the bottom because I split Second). They all share traits, but this year my challenge to myself was to use no beans and no tomatoes.
Whenever you think of LA and Chili - it's inevitable that you think of the strange "chili dog/burger" topping that we're known for. I'd bet my mortgage payment that it has Greek influence ala Cincinnati. It's a meat slurry of impossibly tiny ground meat nuggets, tomato and various chili seasonings, but not hot. And boy howdy is it greasy - whether a full grease bomb like Tommy's or the sticky greasiness of Cupids.
But to me, the apex of Los Angeles Chili - and a place that would give any "Beans have no place in chili" prescriptivist a flummoxing - was Chili My Soul in Encino. It was one man, Randy Hoffman, with an incredible passion for making chilies of all various stripes and creations - usually 15-20 different per day of various spicing levels from the 1 of a Tenderfoot to 10+ of Demon. (and he would blend - my favorite was Gunslinger [beef with bacon] and a skosh of Demon). Sadly Randy passed away in 2009 and Chili My Soul vanished with him. I miss his creativity.
posted by drewbage1847 at 11:43 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
Whenever you think of LA and Chili - it's inevitable that you think of the strange "chili dog/burger" topping that we're known for. I'd bet my mortgage payment that it has Greek influence ala Cincinnati. It's a meat slurry of impossibly tiny ground meat nuggets, tomato and various chili seasonings, but not hot. And boy howdy is it greasy - whether a full grease bomb like Tommy's or the sticky greasiness of Cupids.
But to me, the apex of Los Angeles Chili - and a place that would give any "Beans have no place in chili" prescriptivist a flummoxing - was Chili My Soul in Encino. It was one man, Randy Hoffman, with an incredible passion for making chilies of all various stripes and creations - usually 15-20 different per day of various spicing levels from the 1 of a Tenderfoot to 10+ of Demon. (and he would blend - my favorite was Gunslinger [beef with bacon] and a skosh of Demon). Sadly Randy passed away in 2009 and Chili My Soul vanished with him. I miss his creativity.
posted by drewbage1847 at 11:43 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
When my dad had a day off, he would cook a big pot of beans, usually pinto, with pork or beef, chilis, oregano, onion, red or green pepper. The house smelled great when we came home from school. He was born in Arizona during the depression. If I could ask him what is chilli I think he would say "a stew that warms your heart."
He would also cook a big pot of lima beans with mustard and bacon, I have no idea the origins of that concoction, but it was tasty!
I need to go cook myself some chilli.
posted by Arctostaphylos at 1:22 PM on February 29 [3 favorites]
He would also cook a big pot of lima beans with mustard and bacon, I have no idea the origins of that concoction, but it was tasty!
I need to go cook myself some chilli.
posted by Arctostaphylos at 1:22 PM on February 29 [3 favorites]
lima beans with mustard and bacon
That sounds amazing!
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:35 PM on February 29 [1 favorite]
That sounds amazing!
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:35 PM on February 29 [1 favorite]
a stew that warms your heart
That’s lovely. And also a lovely potential MeFite username!
posted by cupcakeninja at 1:37 PM on February 29 [1 favorite]
That’s lovely. And also a lovely potential MeFite username!
posted by cupcakeninja at 1:37 PM on February 29 [1 favorite]
lima beans with mustard and bacon
Recipe, for anyone interested.
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:39 PM on February 29 [1 favorite]
Recipe, for anyone interested.
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:39 PM on February 29 [1 favorite]
Kangaroo has a chewy, gamey texture that does not to me (an Aussie) feel like what you would call a say Tex-Mex style chili.
That said, give it a crack! The other problem with kangaroo is it stinks while cooking, so if attempting, do it outside.
Something is not right. It certainly shouldn't stink for one, nor is it chewy. Texture can be a bit thin but the secret is to add additional fat, preferably animal. That probably has consequences for its healthiness but whatever, we only get one life.
posted by deadwax at 1:42 PM on February 29
That said, give it a crack! The other problem with kangaroo is it stinks while cooking, so if attempting, do it outside.
Something is not right. It certainly shouldn't stink for one, nor is it chewy. Texture can be a bit thin but the secret is to add additional fat, preferably animal. That probably has consequences for its healthiness but whatever, we only get one life.
posted by deadwax at 1:42 PM on February 29
For those trying to draw an axis connecting various traditions of "meat braised with dried Capsicum," please do not neglect to stop by Hungary to sample the gulyas.
Personally, as a cook, I think "beef braised with dried Capsicum pods" is such a trivially obvious concept that it does not really count as an "invention," let alone one that would be worth arguing priority about.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 1:48 PM on February 29 [2 favorites]
Personally, as a cook, I think "beef braised with dried Capsicum pods" is such a trivially obvious concept that it does not really count as an "invention," let alone one that would be worth arguing priority about.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 1:48 PM on February 29 [2 favorites]
→
I can't tell 'em apart. Maybe it's just my local afghani places that do it that way, though.
posted by scruss at 2:18 PM on February 29
chili con carne ... qorma from Afghanistan ... but entirely different flavor profiles
I can't tell 'em apart. Maybe it's just my local afghani places that do it that way, though.
posted by scruss at 2:18 PM on February 29
When you live in a small country, google is not always your friend, so all of the following is purely anecdotal.
As far as I know, chili con carne was introduced to Denmark at the Café Dan Turell. The café opened in 1977 and was one of the first French-style cafés in Copenhagen. I can't say why chili was part of its repetoire but it was designed as a place where artists and business-people could meet, and thus the food was meant to be very, very cheap, but also good and filling. Students and starving artists could afford it. From Dan Turell, it moved on to most cafés in all of Denmark, often as a cheap microwavable meal.
The chili was nothing like anything ever eaten in Texas. For one, it was not spicy. Maybe you all can guess where it came from originally, I don't know: it was minced meat, onions, tomatoes, red kidney beans, carrots, (maybe celeriac), garlic and chili powder, cumin and paprika. And salt and pepper of course. Maybe there would be creme fraiche but that was a bit random. It was not in any way hot.
Anyway, this became the standard Danish chili. You can buy the beans already seasoned so you just need to mix in the ground beef. It is a very popular family dish, often now supplemented with other tex-mex items. But the Dan Turell chili came before Santa Maria.
posted by mumimor at 2:42 PM on February 29 [2 favorites]
As far as I know, chili con carne was introduced to Denmark at the Café Dan Turell. The café opened in 1977 and was one of the first French-style cafés in Copenhagen. I can't say why chili was part of its repetoire but it was designed as a place where artists and business-people could meet, and thus the food was meant to be very, very cheap, but also good and filling. Students and starving artists could afford it. From Dan Turell, it moved on to most cafés in all of Denmark, often as a cheap microwavable meal.
The chili was nothing like anything ever eaten in Texas. For one, it was not spicy. Maybe you all can guess where it came from originally, I don't know: it was minced meat, onions, tomatoes, red kidney beans, carrots, (maybe celeriac), garlic and chili powder, cumin and paprika. And salt and pepper of course. Maybe there would be creme fraiche but that was a bit random. It was not in any way hot.
Anyway, this became the standard Danish chili. You can buy the beans already seasoned so you just need to mix in the ground beef. It is a very popular family dish, often now supplemented with other tex-mex items. But the Dan Turell chili came before Santa Maria.
posted by mumimor at 2:42 PM on February 29 [2 favorites]
most of the chiles used have little or no spiciness (especially with the seeds removed)
The seeds don't actually have any capsaicin.
posted by Dr. Twist at 2:50 PM on February 29
The seeds don't actually have any capsaicin.
posted by Dr. Twist at 2:50 PM on February 29
I have loved chili as long as I can remember; my mother cooked an excellent chili and would freeze portions of it for an easy meal when she didn’t have the time to cook. Very much a Texas chili, but she would always add beans (and a lot of old Texas recipes do call for beans, regardless of what some self-styled experts say) which makes since because she was also cost-conscious and beans are a cheap way of adding substance to any meal. Of course they had to be pinto beans, preferably cooked from dried. Although not in our house, they can always be served as a side to add to your bowl of red as desired. Corn tortillas (the cheap supermarket one were all we ever had, but fresh ones are amazing!) slathered with butter and salt and pepper rounded out the meal (with guacamole if avocados were available). Some of my favorite comfort food! Since then I have progressed to adding cheese and chopped jalapeños (fresh or pickled) as condiments, but still like to keep it simple. I cook chili whenever I can; am cooking a big pot for a biker get-together Sunday. Venison is my meat of choice (browned in bacon fat!) when available, but beef, coarsely ground or chopped is fine. When I smoke a brisket there are usually a bunch of leftovers; chop them up and make chili!
I don’t really have a recipe, but good chili powder is a must. If you have never cooked chili before and want a good, fool-proof way to make Texas Chili, get Wick Fowler’s 2-Alarm Chili Kit. Once you have the basic idea, then you can have fun figuring out how to make it your own. I order a variety of chili blends from Pendery’s in Fort Worth. I like their chiltomaline, but try a bunch of others as well, and add garlic, cumin (the main flavor note in Tex-Mex) additional peppers, Mexican oregano, and so forth as my whims dictate.
Having said all that, I am pretty ecumenical when it comes to other styles of chili. (But not the spelling!). White chili is a good way to use up leftover turkey in November, and although it is a totally different dish that just happens to share a name, I really like Cincinnati/Skyline chili. 5 way all the way!
posted by TedW at 2:53 PM on February 29 [2 favorites]
I don’t really have a recipe, but good chili powder is a must. If you have never cooked chili before and want a good, fool-proof way to make Texas Chili, get Wick Fowler’s 2-Alarm Chili Kit. Once you have the basic idea, then you can have fun figuring out how to make it your own. I order a variety of chili blends from Pendery’s in Fort Worth. I like their chiltomaline, but try a bunch of others as well, and add garlic, cumin (the main flavor note in Tex-Mex) additional peppers, Mexican oregano, and so forth as my whims dictate.
Having said all that, I am pretty ecumenical when it comes to other styles of chili. (But not the spelling!). White chili is a good way to use up leftover turkey in November, and although it is a totally different dish that just happens to share a name, I really like Cincinnati/Skyline chili. 5 way all the way!
posted by TedW at 2:53 PM on February 29 [2 favorites]
The seeds don't actually have any capsaicin.
Well, yes, but. Seeds definitely pick up heat from their surroundings, and the act of de-seeding also involves removing the pith that does contain capsaicin, so the result is the same. Tomayto-tomahto or should I say chile-chili
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:20 PM on February 29
Well, yes, but. Seeds definitely pick up heat from their surroundings, and the act of de-seeding also involves removing the pith that does contain capsaicin, so the result is the same. Tomayto-tomahto or should I say chile-chili
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:20 PM on February 29
As a southwesterner from the chile verde belt, I have etched in my head the first time I encountered the hamburger stew Texans call chili. I guess it's fine, but . . . certainly not what I grew up calling chile.
posted by aspersioncast at 3:40 PM on February 29 [1 favorite]
posted by aspersioncast at 3:40 PM on February 29 [1 favorite]
For anyone looking for a great "chili powder," Penzey's Chili 3000 blend is it for me. It's my go-to for chili and for tacos. (Their Chili 9000, though, is really bizarre. Avoid.)
posted by uncleozzy at 3:55 PM on February 29 [1 favorite]
posted by uncleozzy at 3:55 PM on February 29 [1 favorite]
CTRL+F "CASI" not found.
If you're interested in Texas Red, The Chili Appreciation Society of America has history links for you. I don't claim to be an expert but these are the folks who do the Terlingua competition and they have a pretty strong sense of the myth of Texas Red. Competition chili is where we get the strong "no filler" rules a lot of us swear by, or in some cases, swear at. (CASI is a private group, so please don't hold them responsible for the wrongs of our state government.)
I was born in Texas and have a strong preference for Texas Red as a style. You do you for what you want to eat, but please tell me if what you're serving me has beans so I can choose to eat or not. Yes, I am picky about chili. I don't get involved in pizza wars between New York and Detroit, so don't tell me how to eat my regional foods.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 3:55 PM on February 29 [4 favorites]
If you're interested in Texas Red, The Chili Appreciation Society of America has history links for you. I don't claim to be an expert but these are the folks who do the Terlingua competition and they have a pretty strong sense of the myth of Texas Red. Competition chili is where we get the strong "no filler" rules a lot of us swear by, or in some cases, swear at. (CASI is a private group, so please don't hold them responsible for the wrongs of our state government.)
I was born in Texas and have a strong preference for Texas Red as a style. You do you for what you want to eat, but please tell me if what you're serving me has beans so I can choose to eat or not. Yes, I am picky about chili. I don't get involved in pizza wars between New York and Detroit, so don't tell me how to eat my regional foods.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 3:55 PM on February 29 [4 favorites]
My chile world exploded when I visited New Mexico in the late 1990s and again in the early 2000s. I'm a full-on convert for whatever they're doing they're doing with chile here. I've spent the intervening decades trying to replicate the red and green dishes, including posole, that I've had there. Perhaps it's time to get back. And if real Texas chili con carne can exclude tomatoes, then I think you need to accept New Mexican posole as a type of chili.
posted by mollweide at 4:07 PM on February 29 [2 favorites]
posted by mollweide at 4:07 PM on February 29 [2 favorites]
Posole/Pozole is a much older dish (by 300-500 years) than chili, so I think the Arrow of Similarity points in the other direction.
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:24 PM on February 29 [3 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:24 PM on February 29 [3 favorites]
And if real Texas chili con carne can exclude tomatoes, then I think you need to accept New Mexican posole as a type of chili.
I know we are in "is a hot dog a taco or a sandwich?" territory here when really the definitions are completely porous, but personally I'd consider pozole (whether Mexican or New Mexican varieties) a different beast entirely, despite some overlapping ingredients.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:34 PM on February 29 [1 favorite]
I know we are in "is a hot dog a taco or a sandwich?" territory here when really the definitions are completely porous, but personally I'd consider pozole (whether Mexican or New Mexican varieties) a different beast entirely, despite some overlapping ingredients.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:34 PM on February 29 [1 favorite]
As a native Texan who normally avoids such culinary discussions, I offer a Chili Blanco I cobbled together that my wife and I both enjoy. Practically every ingredient is heresy...
posted by jim in austin at 4:56 PM on February 29 [2 favorites]
posted by jim in austin at 4:56 PM on February 29 [2 favorites]
*screams, fainting, frightened angry shouts*
Looks good, though I take strong exception to this part:
Some dry spices may need to be reduced or deleted
posted by Greg_Ace at 5:14 PM on February 29 [1 favorite]
Looks good, though I take strong exception to this part:
Some dry spices may need to be reduced or deleted
posted by Greg_Ace at 5:14 PM on February 29 [1 favorite]
Greg Ace, it depends on the sausage you use. One of those "to taste" things. And as one last finger in the eye, we prefer smoked paprika to chili powder...
posted by jim in austin at 5:23 PM on February 29
posted by jim in austin at 5:23 PM on February 29
Admittedly, I'm trying to muddy the waters here, but they seem pretty muddy to begin with. If Texas chili is just meat and chili peppers and associated spices, that really seems more inclusive than less inclusive.
posted by mollweide at 5:45 PM on February 29 [1 favorite]
posted by mollweide at 5:45 PM on February 29 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately I'm a Texan who does not like chili - sorry but I really dislike tomato-based sauces, in general but especially with beef, just ugh no thank you. (No I also do not eat spaghetti bolognaise). But even I know that Texas chili is served with Fritos, tortilla chips, or cornbread (but really Fritos is the right answer here)
But this thread makes me really sad about it. I do wish I liked it so I could try all these recipes!
posted by LizBoBiz at 7:14 PM on February 29
But this thread makes me really sad about it. I do wish I liked it so I could try all these recipes!
posted by LizBoBiz at 7:14 PM on February 29
Admittedly, I'm trying to muddy the waters here, but they seem pretty muddy to begin with. If Texas chili is just meat and chili peppers and associated spices, that really seems more inclusive than less inclusive.
The really tight overlap is between mild Texas chili and slightly spicy Sloppy Joe sauce. I challenge anyone to tell the difference.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:27 PM on February 29 [2 favorites]
The really tight overlap is between mild Texas chili and slightly spicy Sloppy Joe sauce. I challenge anyone to tell the difference.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:27 PM on February 29 [2 favorites]
I defrosted some chili last weekend, we need to eat clear out the freezer.
My chili is beef and fresh & dried chilis, some of which I grew; beer, onions, patience; it takes a couple days to make, it is very flavorful and has a looooonggg tail. I like lots of chilis though; especially white chili as a kind of comfort food. I like beans of all kinds. But later, added into as desired. I like making a green chili in 3 parts: simmered pork in tomatillos, spicy beans, and squash/veg in curry (yep, I'm commenting after the curry thread). Serve in biscuit bowls, guests can make vegetarian or vegan or meat chili with toppings as desired.
It occurred to me today that I could take my last cup of intensely seasoned shredded beef chili and zuzh it up with fried garlic, ginger, onions (rummages through the veg bin) peppers, that quarter of cabbage shreddded why not.
Add some lang go ma fermented beans in chili oil, and angel hair pasta, and I have some quite nice meaty chili and beans (yet not at all what this thread is about) over noodles. Serve with slices of cucumber and very cold lager.
posted by winesong at 8:04 PM on February 29 [1 favorite]
My chili is beef and fresh & dried chilis, some of which I grew; beer, onions, patience; it takes a couple days to make, it is very flavorful and has a looooonggg tail. I like lots of chilis though; especially white chili as a kind of comfort food. I like beans of all kinds. But later, added into as desired. I like making a green chili in 3 parts: simmered pork in tomatillos, spicy beans, and squash/veg in curry (yep, I'm commenting after the curry thread). Serve in biscuit bowls, guests can make vegetarian or vegan or meat chili with toppings as desired.
It occurred to me today that I could take my last cup of intensely seasoned shredded beef chili and zuzh it up with fried garlic, ginger, onions (rummages through the veg bin) peppers, that quarter of cabbage shreddded why not.
Add some lang go ma fermented beans in chili oil, and angel hair pasta, and I have some quite nice meaty chili and beans (yet not at all what this thread is about) over noodles. Serve with slices of cucumber and very cold lager.
posted by winesong at 8:04 PM on February 29 [1 favorite]
Chiming in as a chili-on-rice eater. This might be the East Asian influence. It's the preferred option in Hawaii.
I also love sloppy joes but these days I have been using Impossible non-animal meats instead of ground beef in chili and sloppy joes and honestly, I can't tell the difference at all. Yay not feeling panicked about deforestation in the Amazon while I eat my comfort food.
posted by spamandkimchi at 9:37 PM on February 29 [1 favorite]
I also love sloppy joes but these days I have been using Impossible non-animal meats instead of ground beef in chili and sloppy joes and honestly, I can't tell the difference at all. Yay not feeling panicked about deforestation in the Amazon while I eat my comfort food.
posted by spamandkimchi at 9:37 PM on February 29 [1 favorite]
I'm getting some great ideas here. Thanks! Sometime I should try making chili with chunks instead of ground meat.
Anyway, I don't make it much nowadays for reasons, but when I do, a crucial part of the process comes in the stage when I'm simmering the ground meat(s) and spices in the broth. I'm somewhat obsessed about covering as much surface area as possible with the spices so I use a potato masher to crumble the meat into tiny, tiny pieces. I don't want a slurry so I leave the immersion blender in the cabinet.
posted by kingless at 4:39 AM on March 1
Anyway, I don't make it much nowadays for reasons, but when I do, a crucial part of the process comes in the stage when I'm simmering the ground meat(s) and spices in the broth. I'm somewhat obsessed about covering as much surface area as possible with the spices so I use a potato masher to crumble the meat into tiny, tiny pieces. I don't want a slurry so I leave the immersion blender in the cabinet.
posted by kingless at 4:39 AM on March 1
My dad grew up in the Southwest and makes an excellent chili. He never gave me his recipe (I think mainly just to tease me) but encouraged me to figure out my own style. So yeah, I use things like unsweetened cocoa powder and lots of different types of peppers. Quel horror, sometimes I use ground spices because I don't have the time and/or patience to source and prepare dried chilies.
He likes my chili, so I'm doing something right.
kingless, I also use a potato masher to break down the meat. It makes the texture so much better.
As a native Texan who normally avoids such culinary discussions, I offer a Chili Blanco I cobbled together that my wife and I both enjoy. Practically every ingredient is heresy...
When I was in college, there was a dude in the student union cafe who made all the soups and stews from scratch. His White Chicken Chili was hands down one of the best things I have ever eaten. Sadly, the recipe went with him when he graduated.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 5:30 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
He likes my chili, so I'm doing something right.
kingless, I also use a potato masher to break down the meat. It makes the texture so much better.
As a native Texan who normally avoids such culinary discussions, I offer a Chili Blanco I cobbled together that my wife and I both enjoy. Practically every ingredient is heresy...
When I was in college, there was a dude in the student union cafe who made all the soups and stews from scratch. His White Chicken Chili was hands down one of the best things I have ever eaten. Sadly, the recipe went with him when he graduated.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 5:30 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
Secondly, THERE IS NO CHOCOLATE in the original Cincinnati chili parlor chili.
The sources I found disagreed with you but - land of contrasts, and all that. And I'm pretty sure that any mentions of "chocolate" are referring to unsweetened chocolate/cocoa (as in mole), not like...Toll House chocolate chips, or something.
Yeah you'll find lots and lots and lots of recipes around that call for chocolate but the families who still operate (or took over) Cincinnati's iconic chili parlors all insist that the original recipes (and the ones they still use today) don't contain chocolate of any kind.
posted by cooker girl at 6:34 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
The sources I found disagreed with you but - land of contrasts, and all that. And I'm pretty sure that any mentions of "chocolate" are referring to unsweetened chocolate/cocoa (as in mole), not like...Toll House chocolate chips, or something.
Yeah you'll find lots and lots and lots of recipes around that call for chocolate but the families who still operate (or took over) Cincinnati's iconic chili parlors all insist that the original recipes (and the ones they still use today) don't contain chocolate of any kind.
posted by cooker girl at 6:34 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
Maybe I’m missing a joke, but I don’t understand the bolognese comments. To my mind bolognese is meat/onions/carrot/celery/tomato/wine/milk/nutmeg. The only overlap with chili is meat, onions, and maybe tomatoes. Maaaybe celery or nutmeg. (Celery seems v questionable in chili.) Wine and milk would never appear in chili, and dried or fresh chiles would never be an ingredient in bolognese. But I have a sense that the definition of bolognese varies a lot, especially in the anglophone world. Perhaps that’s the next food post to be made.
posted by yarrow at 7:54 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
posted by yarrow at 7:54 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
Other than at restaurants, I don't think I've ever had bolognese made with milk, for example. Mostly when people make meat sauce at home, it's a much simpler, less elaborate procedure that has only partial overlap with the iconic version of bolognese.
I think for a lot of people in the anglo world, there is a very blurry continuum from bolognese (aka "spaghetti sauce with meat") → sloppy Joe sauce → mild chili, with the resulting dishes being much, much closer together than you'd guess from looking at more iconic or "authentic" recipes. For most people making a simple every-day dish, those are all going to be canned tomatoes plus ground meet plus onion plus some mix of spices in jars; depending on what spices you pick and how much you use, the differences can get pretty minor.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:06 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
I think for a lot of people in the anglo world, there is a very blurry continuum from bolognese (aka "spaghetti sauce with meat") → sloppy Joe sauce → mild chili, with the resulting dishes being much, much closer together than you'd guess from looking at more iconic or "authentic" recipes. For most people making a simple every-day dish, those are all going to be canned tomatoes plus ground meet plus onion plus some mix of spices in jars; depending on what spices you pick and how much you use, the differences can get pretty minor.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:06 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
bolognese (aka "spaghetti sauce with meat")
Yes, I see, that’s the vocab disconnect - I would use “ragu” or “meat sauce” for this.
posted by yarrow at 8:25 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
Yes, I see, that’s the vocab disconnect - I would use “ragu” or “meat sauce” for this.
posted by yarrow at 8:25 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
I'm with you, yarrow, but "Spag Bol" definitely seems to be a very common usage for "noodles with meat sauce", but even granting that - I would hesitate to say "these are related".
When I make a meat sauce, the emphasis is on tomato, onion and garlic flavors whereas chili is on the chiles, cumin and meat. The most "heat" I ever add to a meat sauce is a dash of red pepper flakes and a few good grinds of black pepper.
But in reality, there's only so many simple ways to cook food - so you're going to run into tons of overlap, cross development and pollination and simultaneous invention.
I should go unfreeze my block of chile that's in the freezer that used the last of the hatch peppers from last year. Make a nice lunch on a soon to be rainy SoCal day.
posted by drewbage1847 at 8:33 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
When I make a meat sauce, the emphasis is on tomato, onion and garlic flavors whereas chili is on the chiles, cumin and meat. The most "heat" I ever add to a meat sauce is a dash of red pepper flakes and a few good grinds of black pepper.
But in reality, there's only so many simple ways to cook food - so you're going to run into tons of overlap, cross development and pollination and simultaneous invention.
I should go unfreeze my block of chile that's in the freezer that used the last of the hatch peppers from last year. Make a nice lunch on a soon to be rainy SoCal day.
posted by drewbage1847 at 8:33 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
Whenever I see the word "ragu", my warped childhood causes me to pronounce it like the Wacky Packages parody, Raw Goo.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:38 AM on March 1
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:38 AM on March 1
Wine and milk would never appear in chili...
I've used red wine in the past to break down the beef. If I'm feeling especially cheeky, I might use tequila instead.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 8:48 AM on March 1
I've used red wine in the past to break down the beef. If I'm feeling especially cheeky, I might use tequila instead.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 8:48 AM on March 1
Regarding the meat sauces, here is what Kenji has to say about it:
posted by mmascolino at 8:58 AM on March 1 [2 favorites]
Let's get one thing straight right away: When I say "ragù Bolognese," I'm talking true ragù.* This slow-cooked meat sauce is almost entirely composed of meat, with just a small amount of wine, stock, tomato, and dairy to bind it together. That "spaghetti Bolognese" you get in Little Italy or a UK pub, made with ground beef simmered in marinara sauce, may be tasty, but it's an entirely different beast.I believe that Kenji is correct and I try to use Bolognese correctly when I talk but it is clear that most people aren't aware of the distinction. This is similar how "barbeque" to purists means meat cooked via wood smoke but to the general population means either "any food cooked on a grill" or anything that is served with barbeque sauce or "an informal gathering of people to eat food outside".
posted by mmascolino at 8:58 AM on March 1 [2 favorites]
"barbeque" to purists means meat cooked slowly at a low temperature via wood smoke, this former-southerner purist gently reminds.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:03 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:03 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
My grandmother used to make spaghetti with meat with Sloppy Joe sauce. It's far too sweet for me in that role, but I guess it's similar enough for a small town facsimile, even if it's not even as authentic as Olive Garden. Between two slabs of dry bread, Sloppy Joe sauce doesn't seem quite a sweet and out of place. On spaghetti, it's a bowl of sugar and tomatoes; if you are squinting you are eating a kind of thick ketchup and spaghetti.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:18 AM on March 1
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:18 AM on March 1
.....in reality, there's only so many simple ways to cook food - so you're going to run into tons of overlap, cross development and pollination and simultaneous invention.
Exactly! A lot of the "classic" recipes of today seem to have started out long ago as variants of what an old roommate of mine referred to as "Everything-inna-pot" - you take whatever needs using, throw it in a pot with some water (or broth if you've got it), and keep adding other stuff until it tastes good. (This same roommate did exactly that once when she was trying to salvage a failed attempt at vegetable juice; it made this incredible soup, but we could never recreate it because she was a little panicked and didn't take notes; and it's a shame, because that stuff was delicious.)
Bouillabaisse is another good example of this - you'll find a lot of conflicting opinions about what the "proper" fish should be for "authentic" bouillabaisse, but back in the day it was a stew made by fishermens' wives who just had the basic broth going and waiting on the stove for when their husbands came home with whatever they'd caught that day. Whatever they got that day was whatever the "proper" fish was for that day. That's also why you have so many different definitions of "ragu" or "bolognese" or "barbecue" or, well, "chili".
What also sometimes happens - at least I think it might happen - is if something has undergone so many changes that it's evolved into an entirely different thing. Like - okay, in New Orleans you have jambalaya, which is a rice and meat dish. In Spain you have paella, which is....a rice and meat dish. And in parts of the Middle East and Western Asia you have pilaf, which is...a rice and meat dish. Today we think of them as three different dishes. But then when you look at history....
* The Iberian peninsula was part of the Muslim Umayyad caliphate from the 700s to 1492. Presumably, some of the people who moved to Spain brought pilav with them as A Thing To Eat.
* Spain technically had control of the Louisiana Territory from 1762 to 1801; this was part of a deal done at the conclusion of the Seven Years' War. The Spanish never really managed to get a toehold anywhere but in the Louisiana State area, largely because the existing French colonists kicked up a fuss, and Spain finally gave up and turned the area back to France in 1801 - just a couple years before Napoleon sold it to Jefferson in 1803. That still leaves 40 years during which Spanish colonists could have moved to New Orleans - and brought the idea of paella with them.
* So to my mind, this does present a plausible argument for pilav begetting paella, and paella begetting jambalaya.
So who knows, maybe chili has its origins in a far older dish we just haven't remembered yet.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:51 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
Exactly! A lot of the "classic" recipes of today seem to have started out long ago as variants of what an old roommate of mine referred to as "Everything-inna-pot" - you take whatever needs using, throw it in a pot with some water (or broth if you've got it), and keep adding other stuff until it tastes good. (This same roommate did exactly that once when she was trying to salvage a failed attempt at vegetable juice; it made this incredible soup, but we could never recreate it because she was a little panicked and didn't take notes; and it's a shame, because that stuff was delicious.)
Bouillabaisse is another good example of this - you'll find a lot of conflicting opinions about what the "proper" fish should be for "authentic" bouillabaisse, but back in the day it was a stew made by fishermens' wives who just had the basic broth going and waiting on the stove for when their husbands came home with whatever they'd caught that day. Whatever they got that day was whatever the "proper" fish was for that day. That's also why you have so many different definitions of "ragu" or "bolognese" or "barbecue" or, well, "chili".
What also sometimes happens - at least I think it might happen - is if something has undergone so many changes that it's evolved into an entirely different thing. Like - okay, in New Orleans you have jambalaya, which is a rice and meat dish. In Spain you have paella, which is....a rice and meat dish. And in parts of the Middle East and Western Asia you have pilaf, which is...a rice and meat dish. Today we think of them as three different dishes. But then when you look at history....
* The Iberian peninsula was part of the Muslim Umayyad caliphate from the 700s to 1492. Presumably, some of the people who moved to Spain brought pilav with them as A Thing To Eat.
* Spain technically had control of the Louisiana Territory from 1762 to 1801; this was part of a deal done at the conclusion of the Seven Years' War. The Spanish never really managed to get a toehold anywhere but in the Louisiana State area, largely because the existing French colonists kicked up a fuss, and Spain finally gave up and turned the area back to France in 1801 - just a couple years before Napoleon sold it to Jefferson in 1803. That still leaves 40 years during which Spanish colonists could have moved to New Orleans - and brought the idea of paella with them.
* So to my mind, this does present a plausible argument for pilav begetting paella, and paella begetting jambalaya.
So who knows, maybe chili has its origins in a far older dish we just haven't remembered yet.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:51 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
* So to my mind, this does present a plausible argument for pilav begetting paella, and paella begetting jambalaya.
This fails to consider the direct culinary links of West African jollof rice being brought to the new world by enslaved Africans, leading pretty directly to the similar-tasting jambalaya. The series High on the Hog has a whole episode on this, if I remember correctly. (If I had to really speculate, I'd guess that paella has the same West African dishes as a distant inspiration, filtered up through North Africa and then into Spain.)
posted by Dip Flash at 10:17 AM on March 1 [2 favorites]
This fails to consider the direct culinary links of West African jollof rice being brought to the new world by enslaved Africans, leading pretty directly to the similar-tasting jambalaya. The series High on the Hog has a whole episode on this, if I remember correctly. (If I had to really speculate, I'd guess that paella has the same West African dishes as a distant inspiration, filtered up through North Africa and then into Spain.)
posted by Dip Flash at 10:17 AM on March 1 [2 favorites]
It is killing me that the post calls the Homesick Texan's recipe for a "true, authentic Texas chili" an "Oklahoma chili". It's the recipe I use and I appreciate its maximalist approach to adding flavors. Including several kinds of bittering agents: beer, coffee, etc. Useful for offsetting the acidity of chiles.
But I'm happy to give a genuine Texas stamp of authenticity to Kenji's recipe, particularly his treatment of chiles. That was the revelation for me in the Homesick Texan recipe at first but Kenji does a great job explaining the logic of mixing chile varieties. I confess I mostly just wing it based on what I have in the house, all I know to do is balance the heat level. But I do know that the times I try to take a shortcut with chile powder it's never as good.
(The beans-in-chili thing is a sideshow. You like beans? Use beans. The Homesick Texan printed cookbook just asks that you cook the beans separately so that they don't get overcooked with the meat.)
posted by Nelson at 10:45 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
But I'm happy to give a genuine Texas stamp of authenticity to Kenji's recipe, particularly his treatment of chiles. That was the revelation for me in the Homesick Texan recipe at first but Kenji does a great job explaining the logic of mixing chile varieties. I confess I mostly just wing it based on what I have in the house, all I know to do is balance the heat level. But I do know that the times I try to take a shortcut with chile powder it's never as good.
(The beans-in-chili thing is a sideshow. You like beans? Use beans. The Homesick Texan printed cookbook just asks that you cook the beans separately so that they don't get overcooked with the meat.)
posted by Nelson at 10:45 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
(If I had to really speculate, I'd guess that paella has the same West African dishes as a distant inspiration, filtered up through North Africa and then into Spain.)
That does indeed sound like a thing! I just got curious and checked Wikipedia for the history of Jollof rice - they claim that the history "isn't clear", pointing to one theory that it's got a 14th-century Wolof Empire origin and another theory that it's got a Mali Empire origin.
I was generally talking out my ass to a degree - and it's possible that it's a little of both, as throughout history you've got a whole bunch of cross-cultural mixing and mingling and that leads to someone in 1490s Madrid trying to make either Jollof Rice or Pilav and throwing something different in because they tried it at their neighbors and it tasted cool, or someone in 1790s New Orleans trying to make paella but they didn't have all the ingredients for the traditional sofrito so they went with bell pepper, celery and garlic because that's what was in the market. Over time it also screens out the really weird blind-alley experiments ("let's see what happens if we put pickles in this?.....bleah, let's not try that again").
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:59 AM on March 1 [2 favorites]
That does indeed sound like a thing! I just got curious and checked Wikipedia for the history of Jollof rice - they claim that the history "isn't clear", pointing to one theory that it's got a 14th-century Wolof Empire origin and another theory that it's got a Mali Empire origin.
I was generally talking out my ass to a degree - and it's possible that it's a little of both, as throughout history you've got a whole bunch of cross-cultural mixing and mingling and that leads to someone in 1490s Madrid trying to make either Jollof Rice or Pilav and throwing something different in because they tried it at their neighbors and it tasted cool, or someone in 1790s New Orleans trying to make paella but they didn't have all the ingredients for the traditional sofrito so they went with bell pepper, celery and garlic because that's what was in the market. Over time it also screens out the really weird blind-alley experiments ("let's see what happens if we put pickles in this?.....bleah, let's not try that again").
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:59 AM on March 1 [2 favorites]
Point taken Nelson; but everything I read about "true" Texas chile, "Texas red", etc. deliberately eschews those extra flavors, and (supposedly, according to what I read at least), Oklahoma chili was more likely to include them. But that's not necessarily "real" people talking, and I'm not a native, so no insult intended and I'm willing to be wrong...which is good, because I often am.
For my own self, though I went through chili recipes with various "maximalist approach" ingredients and liked them well enough, once I discovered the recipe of Kenji's you linked to and started using dried chiles, I no longer felt the dish needed a lot of extra flavorings and preferred to let the amazing flavor of the chiles themselves be the star of the dish. But that's just me.
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:05 AM on March 1
For my own self, though I went through chili recipes with various "maximalist approach" ingredients and liked them well enough, once I discovered the recipe of Kenji's you linked to and started using dried chiles, I no longer felt the dish needed a lot of extra flavorings and preferred to let the amazing flavor of the chiles themselves be the star of the dish. But that's just me.
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:05 AM on March 1
Oh no worries, I mostly laugh off prescriptivist stuff like "authentic" or "real" or "genuine". I'm just a big fan of Lisa Fain, the Homesick Texan, mostly because I am myself a homesick Texan when it comes to food. Her writing has done a great job making Tex-Mex and some other Texas cuisines accessible.
There's definitely a style of chili that's just dried chiles, beef, probably onion, but very little else. Even cumin is negotiable. Common in Tex Mex food but rare in New Mexican food, for instance. (Although New Mexican cuisine doesn't have anything like a beef red chili in the traditional repetoire. Too busy making delicious green chile stews and posole.)
I wish I could tell the difference between, say, dried arbols and cascabels. Or guajillos vs anaheims vs anchos. All I know is to use some of each and it comes out better.
Bonus link: visual guide to fresh and dried chiles. Because an ancho is a dried poblano and a guajillo is a dried mirasol.
posted by Nelson at 11:34 AM on March 1 [2 favorites]
There's definitely a style of chili that's just dried chiles, beef, probably onion, but very little else. Even cumin is negotiable. Common in Tex Mex food but rare in New Mexican food, for instance. (Although New Mexican cuisine doesn't have anything like a beef red chili in the traditional repetoire. Too busy making delicious green chile stews and posole.)
I wish I could tell the difference between, say, dried arbols and cascabels. Or guajillos vs anaheims vs anchos. All I know is to use some of each and it comes out better.
Bonus link: visual guide to fresh and dried chiles. Because an ancho is a dried poblano and a guajillo is a dried mirasol.
posted by Nelson at 11:34 AM on March 1 [2 favorites]
The whole search for authenticity thing is problematic, because the world has been globalized way before modernity. I think a reason I really like contemporary North African food is that the most ancient and "original" Danish foods that we have for our holidays are very similar in taste -- sweet and spicy. Lots of dried fruits and warm spices.
Food histories are another matter. It is obviously interesting to understand how enslaved people brought ingredients and methods to the US, just as it is interesting to learn how the Jewish diaspora coming from Eastern Europe formed American foodways.
Chili or Chile is a food from a melting pot, and in its voyage across the US and then the world, it has met new people and new interpretations. Isn't that great?
posted by mumimor at 11:37 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
Food histories are another matter. It is obviously interesting to understand how enslaved people brought ingredients and methods to the US, just as it is interesting to learn how the Jewish diaspora coming from Eastern Europe formed American foodways.
Chili or Chile is a food from a melting pot, and in its voyage across the US and then the world, it has met new people and new interpretations. Isn't that great?
posted by mumimor at 11:37 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
And don't forget the confounding factor in food history of just how much lying there is in the creation of cultural food myths. And that was before you had marketers getting involved! We've created a very difficult labyrinth of "truth" that's nearly impossible to negotiate and tease out the insanely complex ways that culture gets transmitted through the (in)voluntary movement of people across the globe.
posted by drewbage1847 at 12:35 PM on March 1
posted by drewbage1847 at 12:35 PM on March 1
In the study of languages, the big difference between a cant or argot and creoles, pidgins, etc is that cants and argots is meant to exclude, and the others are incorporating words to increase communication or then create identity (I'm not a linguist). I wonder to what extent regional cuisines do the same. We implicitly form connection to the recipes of our past, marked by severe aversion to change, but then "hey! this tastes goooood!" The Thai government even made it a form of diplomacy. To what extent are the "acquired" tastes "that tastes weird, I don't like it" shibboleths of cultural identity and belonging? The regional variation in a dish expressions of community? And a way we can personally experience cultural heritage as more than just an observer?
As one of the world's biggest fans of chiles/chilis/chili. I both fully reject all other chilis/chiles as inferior compared to the one in front of me; and vigorously embrace the next one as superior. However, I'm definitely partial to: roasty green chile, am easy version of Texas/Oklahoma chili with beer (gebhardt's chili powder), frito chili pie, a green chili with turkey, and coneys with chili. I do question cincinnati chile practitioners as a little odd though. ;)
posted by rubatan at 12:59 PM on March 1
As one of the world's biggest fans of chiles/chilis/chili. I both fully reject all other chilis/chiles as inferior compared to the one in front of me; and vigorously embrace the next one as superior. However, I'm definitely partial to: roasty green chile, am easy version of Texas/Oklahoma chili with beer (gebhardt's chili powder), frito chili pie, a green chili with turkey, and coneys with chili. I do question cincinnati chile practitioners as a little odd though. ;)
posted by rubatan at 12:59 PM on March 1
I alternate between making "authentic" chili using my Texas-born mother's recipe (stew meat with no beans/no tomatoes) and what I call school cafeteria chili (ground beef with beans and diced tomatoes) and I am heavy on the cumin either way for that San Antonio flavor. My cousins grew up on the Texas gulf coast in a rice-growing county, so my aunt always made batch of rice (scoop of rice in the bowl before the chili goes in -- you have to support the local rice farmers!)
posted by Ranucci at 1:48 PM on March 1
posted by Ranucci at 1:48 PM on March 1
Mod note: [btw, this post has been added to the sidebar and Best Of blog!]
posted by taz (staff) at 2:00 AM on March 3
posted by taz (staff) at 2:00 AM on March 3
Greg_Ace, I made lima beans with mustard and bacon tonight, and it was tasty. Thanks for linking that recipe!
posted by cupcakeninja at 5:53 PM on March 6
posted by cupcakeninja at 5:53 PM on March 6
Last week, cupcake ninja inspired me to order kebabs, and today Greg_Ace inspired me to make chili. Thank you both!
(I made the serious eats pressure cooker chili and added a can of beans and ate it with buttered corn tortillas)
posted by moonmilk at 8:37 PM on March 6 [1 favorite]
(I made the serious eats pressure cooker chili and added a can of beans and ate it with buttered corn tortillas)
posted by moonmilk at 8:37 PM on March 6 [1 favorite]
Just to mess with the whole geography of chili a bit more, if you go to the Coney I-Lander in Tulsa, OK, what you get isn't the same as a Detroit style coney, and the stuff on your coney isn't "Oklahoma chili," it's Greek-by-way-of-Cincinnati chili (which some people here would just call meat sauce).
posted by fedward at 7:35 AM on March 7
posted by fedward at 7:35 AM on March 7
Lots of interesting ideas and suggestions here.
Now we're ready for more variations on The Generic Canadian Chilli:
+ onions & ground beef (veggie beef sub) fried in olive oil with cumin/garamMasala & cayenne/paprika,
+ (canned) red kidney beans, black beans, diced tomatoes, sometimes corn
+ brown sugar & vinegar & a bit more cayenne,
+ dried chilli pod/s (usually Ancho).
Always served with couscous. Often served with shred melty cheese.
posted by ovvl at 8:40 AM on March 8
Now we're ready for more variations on The Generic Canadian Chilli:
+ onions & ground beef (veggie beef sub) fried in olive oil with cumin/garamMasala & cayenne/paprika,
+ (canned) red kidney beans, black beans, diced tomatoes, sometimes corn
+ brown sugar & vinegar & a bit more cayenne,
+ dried chilli pod/s (usually Ancho).
Always served with couscous. Often served with shred melty cheese.
posted by ovvl at 8:40 AM on March 8
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posted by dorothyisunderwood at 11:14 PM on February 28