Rude Britannia
April 3, 2024 12:33 PM Subscribe
What Have Fourteen Years of Conservative Rule Done to Britain? by Sam Knight in The New Yorker
The entire article is a banger, but here are some choice passages:
The U.K. has yet to recover from the financial crisis that began in 2008. According to one estimate, the average worker is now fourteen thousand pounds worse off per year than if earnings had continued to rise at pre-crisis rates—it is the worst period for wage growth since the Napoleonic Wars.
In many ways, the two momentous decisions of this period—what came to be known as austerity and Brexit—are now widely accepted as events that happened, rather than as choices that were made. Starmer’s Labour Party does not seek to reverse them.
On a cloudless summer’s morning, in the dog days of Theresa May’s government, I travelled to Scunthorpe, in North Lincolnshire. In the sixties, Scunthorpe was a growing steel town with four blast furnaces named after English queens. In 2016, the population voted overwhelmingly for Brexit; three years later, the steelworks was at risk of closure, in part because of trade uncertainties caused by the vote. British Steel, which ran the plant, had been sold to private-equity investors for a pound. Four thousand jobs were on the line.
The entire article is a banger, but here are some choice passages:
The U.K. has yet to recover from the financial crisis that began in 2008. According to one estimate, the average worker is now fourteen thousand pounds worse off per year than if earnings had continued to rise at pre-crisis rates—it is the worst period for wage growth since the Napoleonic Wars.
In many ways, the two momentous decisions of this period—what came to be known as austerity and Brexit—are now widely accepted as events that happened, rather than as choices that were made. Starmer’s Labour Party does not seek to reverse them.
On a cloudless summer’s morning, in the dog days of Theresa May’s government, I travelled to Scunthorpe, in North Lincolnshire. In the sixties, Scunthorpe was a growing steel town with four blast furnaces named after English queens. In 2016, the population voted overwhelmingly for Brexit; three years later, the steelworks was at risk of closure, in part because of trade uncertainties caused by the vote. British Steel, which ran the plant, had been sold to private-equity investors for a pound. Four thousand jobs were on the line.
Thought this FPP title was good
posted by kensington314 at 12:51 PM on April 3 [5 favorites]
posted by kensington314 at 12:51 PM on April 3 [5 favorites]
Whenever I see average UK salaries, I am just floored. People will be making far less than I am to do a job at least at my level, and then there will be some news article like "this winter, heating costs expected to rise an average of 1000 pounds per household" and I just can't even imagine how there is a functional economy at all - how do people make, like, 25,000 pounds a year and spend maybe 2/5 on rent and then a thousand pounds on heat and food is also absurdly expensive and taxes are very high because in theory "services" of some kind are provided but you still basically can't get seen on the NHS unless you're willing to wait eighteen months?
It's really scary how the UK went from, in my adulthood, a pretty functional place that was perhaps out of line with European standards but not as out of line as the US to a place that just sounds like a mud field where people scrabble for the last turnip while somewhere in a castle someone laughs and laughs.
posted by Frowner at 1:09 PM on April 3 [104 favorites]
It's really scary how the UK went from, in my adulthood, a pretty functional place that was perhaps out of line with European standards but not as out of line as the US to a place that just sounds like a mud field where people scrabble for the last turnip while somewhere in a castle someone laughs and laughs.
posted by Frowner at 1:09 PM on April 3 [104 favorites]
Many times I find myself agreeing with Toynbee's hypothesis, which is that cultures and civilizations are organic and therefore of discreet life cycles, not unlike beehives or termite mounds.
This article confirms my sentiment, which is that the Anglic civilizations (UK/Anzac/USA) have reached a stage of sociological senescence, not unlike the late Qing dynasty or the Spanish empire in the 18th century.
Prosperity, power, survival, greatness- all of these things are a choice. And in the great reach of human history, more often than not, the elites of a society choose privilege over any thing else. Consider the decline of the Kingdom of Poland, where the Sejm tax cut themselves into Russian and Prussian conquest. While English, like French, will have a few lingering centuries of linguistic primacy, the overall run of the West has, well run out.
posted by LeRoienJaune at 1:09 PM on April 3 [17 favorites]
This article confirms my sentiment, which is that the Anglic civilizations (UK/Anzac/USA) have reached a stage of sociological senescence, not unlike the late Qing dynasty or the Spanish empire in the 18th century.
Prosperity, power, survival, greatness- all of these things are a choice. And in the great reach of human history, more often than not, the elites of a society choose privilege over any thing else. Consider the decline of the Kingdom of Poland, where the Sejm tax cut themselves into Russian and Prussian conquest. While English, like French, will have a few lingering centuries of linguistic primacy, the overall run of the West has, well run out.
posted by LeRoienJaune at 1:09 PM on April 3 [17 favorites]
It's an interesting piece but really has a lot of quotes from various Conservative figures (Osborne, Frost, Rory Stewart, Cummings, anonymous former Cabinet officials) who seem to be using it as an opportunity to blame the other Tories for the mess. Which is fine, but it's maybe not as comprehensive a diagnosis as you would have gotten if you'd interviewed anyone at all on the left.
I think that's part of the brilliance of the approach, actually--all the people he interviewed were ostensibly part of the governing class for the last decade and a half (and is in fact still in power) and all they can do is point fingers at each other like spiderman.gif
It's astonishing.
posted by rhymedirective at 1:14 PM on April 3 [36 favorites]
I think that's part of the brilliance of the approach, actually--all the people he interviewed were ostensibly part of the governing class for the last decade and a half (and is in fact still in power) and all they can do is point fingers at each other like spiderman.gif
It's astonishing.
posted by rhymedirective at 1:14 PM on April 3 [36 favorites]
CONSERVATIVE BRITISH POLITICS ... I, BORIS, CONTRIVE SHIT, EVIL PACTS
(sorry... mention of Scunthorpe always puts me in the mood for wordplay, but I'm just too demure to utter the obvious association for this particular bunch of Jeremy Hunts.)
posted by protorp at 1:19 PM on April 3 [21 favorites]
(sorry... mention of Scunthorpe always puts me in the mood for wordplay, but I'm just too demure to utter the obvious association for this particular bunch of Jeremy Hunts.)
posted by protorp at 1:19 PM on April 3 [21 favorites]
A fairly decent (and successful, imo) attempt to capture the depressing state of affairs on Rainy Fascist Island.
I did raise my eyebrows a little at this statement:
The worst part (well, one of the worst parts) is that Brexit hasn't even really started to hit yet. The government have only just revealed how much extra they'll be paying to import food from the end of this month. But I'm sure our thriving and well looked after and totally not devastatingly impacted by climate change British food industry will be able to keep up with demand, right? Right?
posted by fight or flight at 1:21 PM on April 3 [38 favorites]
I did raise my eyebrows a little at this statement:
It is telling that, since Labour elected Keir Starmer, an unimaginative former prosecutor with a rigidly centrist program, the Party is competitive again.Anecdotally, I can't name anyone in my social circle (many of whom are current or former Labour members) who is actually excited to be voting Labour in the upcoming GE. The vibe is very much "anyone but a Tory" and a grim acknowledgement of our in-all-but-name two party system. Lots of them are moving to the Greens. And even then -- even with all of this fucking evidence that the Conservatives are the wrong choice, even when they seem to be the only other choice -- Labour are still somehow managing to fuck things up (mostly recently by Starmer vocally backing the ban on trans athletes in professional sport, for apparently no reason except to show off how centrist and not at all oppositional he is on any point).
The worst part (well, one of the worst parts) is that Brexit hasn't even really started to hit yet. The government have only just revealed how much extra they'll be paying to import food from the end of this month. But I'm sure our thriving and well looked after and totally not devastatingly impacted by climate change British food industry will be able to keep up with demand, right? Right?
posted by fight or flight at 1:21 PM on April 3 [38 favorites]
Whenever I see average UK salaries... - how do people make, like, 25,000 pounds a year...
The average full-time salary in the UK was £38,600 for full-time employees in 2020. [ons]
The catch though is the huge underclass working part-time, zero hours contracts many with student loans to pay off, those people are earning an average of £13,803
posted by Lanark at 1:34 PM on April 3 [13 favorites]
The average full-time salary in the UK was £38,600 for full-time employees in 2020. [ons]
The catch though is the huge underclass working part-time, zero hours contracts many with student loans to pay off, those people are earning an average of £13,803
posted by Lanark at 1:34 PM on April 3 [13 favorites]
It makes more so angry that Osborne, a man who shouldn't be left in charge of a paper bag is able to keep pulling in large chunks of money. He's not a wise sage, just a classic over privileged upper class twit with connections.
posted by rolandroland at 2:00 PM on April 3 [4 favorites]
posted by rolandroland at 2:00 PM on April 3 [4 favorites]
Gary Younge has just written a similar piece in the NYRB. It's his point on malnutrition that I found most shocking: "After more than a decade of austerity, British five-year-olds are a full centimeter shorter now than they were in 2010, and they are becoming significantly shorter than children in other countries.”
posted by Paul Slade at 2:00 PM on April 3 [50 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 2:00 PM on April 3 [50 favorites]
Someone in the news said that if the UK was a US state, it would be the poorest one, poorer than Alabama. It is such a tragedy, and no-one seems able or willing to change the direction, even when there are obvious solutions.
The level of poverty seems to be totally out of bounds. There are very poor people all over the EU, but the situation in the UK seems to be worse because food, energy and housing are very expensive.
I haven't been since Brexit, because most of my friends and relatives moved to the EU. The exception is my stepdad, and my siblings are talking about a visit this year. He is doing OK, but he can't afford to travel, and he depends on his allotment garden for food.
posted by mumimor at 2:02 PM on April 3 [13 favorites]
The level of poverty seems to be totally out of bounds. There are very poor people all over the EU, but the situation in the UK seems to be worse because food, energy and housing are very expensive.
I haven't been since Brexit, because most of my friends and relatives moved to the EU. The exception is my stepdad, and my siblings are talking about a visit this year. He is doing OK, but he can't afford to travel, and he depends on his allotment garden for food.
posted by mumimor at 2:02 PM on April 3 [13 favorites]
The average US salary is ~$59,000 per year; the average UK salary works out to ~$48,000 per year. Granted, all of this is presumably made weird by London and New York, but as I say, I'll see someone whose job is similar to mine or fancier and they'll make fifteen or twenty thousand dollars/ten to fifteen thousand pounds less a year than I do. My point here isn't really about the US, just that it is so shocking to see a country reduce itself, within my adult memory, from a place definitely better than the US to a place that seems, as far as I can tell, to be legitimately worse....without any real reason for this happening other than the right wing looting all the money.
Part of the problem, Willetts explained, was that Britain’s richest twenty per cent had largely been spared the effects of the past fourteen years—and that made it genuinely difficult for them to comprehend the damage. “We are all O.K.,” he said. “The burden of adjustment has almost entirely been borne by the less affluent half of the British population.”
You don't say.
He disavowed austerity—promising more money for the N.H.S., new hospitals, and more police—and described a mighty program to redress the country’s economic imbalances, which he called Levelling Up.
He lied! It was obvious to the most casual observer that Johnson was a liar and a fraud! I just don't understand how anyone ever believed him about anything - obviously some people want to believe these awful types, just as they want to believe Trump, for horrible reasons of their own, but there are still people who actually listen to, eg, Johnson or Rees-Mogg or someone and think "this person is telling some version of the truth, it is reasonable to take policy guidance from them".
The whole world is just so heartless and cruel right now, so stupid as well as mean, for no reason and to no end except to put endless money in the pockets of those who already have a lot.
posted by Frowner at 2:10 PM on April 3 [67 favorites]
Part of the problem, Willetts explained, was that Britain’s richest twenty per cent had largely been spared the effects of the past fourteen years—and that made it genuinely difficult for them to comprehend the damage. “We are all O.K.,” he said. “The burden of adjustment has almost entirely been borne by the less affluent half of the British population.”
You don't say.
He disavowed austerity—promising more money for the N.H.S., new hospitals, and more police—and described a mighty program to redress the country’s economic imbalances, which he called Levelling Up.
He lied! It was obvious to the most casual observer that Johnson was a liar and a fraud! I just don't understand how anyone ever believed him about anything - obviously some people want to believe these awful types, just as they want to believe Trump, for horrible reasons of their own, but there are still people who actually listen to, eg, Johnson or Rees-Mogg or someone and think "this person is telling some version of the truth, it is reasonable to take policy guidance from them".
The whole world is just so heartless and cruel right now, so stupid as well as mean, for no reason and to no end except to put endless money in the pockets of those who already have a lot.
posted by Frowner at 2:10 PM on April 3 [67 favorites]
This is the world conservatives want. Their every action is geared toward bringing precisely this into being. They understand that people don't want to live in this world, so they dissemble and lie and point fingers, but in the end it doesn't matter: they've got what they want and they're only unhappy because it's going to cost them some of their power.
Starmer was brought in to purge the left from the Labour Party but his sprint to the right, as best I can tell, didn't really accelerate until the "if there were an election today, the Tories would be wiped out" polls started coming out, what, about 9 months ago? His priority since then has been to erase any differences between the Labour and Conservative parties. In a functional party this would be recognized as sabotage; instead Labour will win the next election and he'll be able to point, like Claire McCaskill, to a victory in a race that he could not possibly have lost as a vindication of his sins.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:16 PM on April 3 [25 favorites]
Starmer was brought in to purge the left from the Labour Party but his sprint to the right, as best I can tell, didn't really accelerate until the "if there were an election today, the Tories would be wiped out" polls started coming out, what, about 9 months ago? His priority since then has been to erase any differences between the Labour and Conservative parties. In a functional party this would be recognized as sabotage; instead Labour will win the next election and he'll be able to point, like Claire McCaskill, to a victory in a race that he could not possibly have lost as a vindication of his sins.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:16 PM on April 3 [25 favorites]
Ignoring the rise of zero-hour contracts/the precariat and the horrendous-on-the-ground inflation and price-gouging by utilities in the UK.....
To take one sector: Salaries in the UK for scientists & academics are still shit and have been shit for a long time....and taxes were not low.
However, that used to be offset by the
-robust welfare system (cradle-to-grave support)
-good public transport (no need for a car, the trains and buses while shabby, actually ran and not for nosebleed prices)
-reasonable housing market (outside of london)
-the world leading free-at-point-of-service NHS (not having to pay anywhere from $200-$2000+/month for health insurance like in the US, no-one ever bankrupted)
-easy access to europe
now? All of those things have been hollowed-out too.
posted by lalochezia at 2:27 PM on April 3 [48 favorites]
To take one sector: Salaries in the UK for scientists & academics are still shit and have been shit for a long time....and taxes were not low.
However, that used to be offset by the
-robust welfare system (cradle-to-grave support)
-good public transport (no need for a car, the trains and buses while shabby, actually ran and not for nosebleed prices)
-reasonable housing market (outside of london)
-the world leading free-at-point-of-service NHS (not having to pay anywhere from $200-$2000+/month for health insurance like in the US, no-one ever bankrupted)
-easy access to europe
now? All of those things have been hollowed-out too.
posted by lalochezia at 2:27 PM on April 3 [48 favorites]
It was obvious to the most casual observer that Johnson was a liar and a fraud!
I think that many people probably knew, on some level, that he was a liar. But it didn't matter. They were willing to let themselves believe in all the lies and the "sovereignty" bullshit in order to "regain our position". Plenty of them just wanted the chance to enact their racist, nationalist fantasies and play into their fears about immigration and Turkey joining the EU. Many people were also brainwashed to vote against their own interests (farmers, fishing communities, etc) by a toxic mix of social media and tabloid frothing. A key part of the Vote Leave strategy was also the implication that there would be another referendum after the initial one -- which, of course, never happened. My mother, an otherwise smart and sensible woman, voted for Brexit, though her father and grandmother were both immigrants from Europe and directly benefitted from our political closeness with the continent. She refuses to admit to it now.
It's difficult to overstate just how much these lies were packaged and sold in a way that made them sound not only sensible, but like the only possible choice. Of course they knew it couldn't all be delivered. They just didn't care.
posted by fight or flight at 2:32 PM on April 3 [14 favorites]
I think that many people probably knew, on some level, that he was a liar. But it didn't matter. They were willing to let themselves believe in all the lies and the "sovereignty" bullshit in order to "regain our position". Plenty of them just wanted the chance to enact their racist, nationalist fantasies and play into their fears about immigration and Turkey joining the EU. Many people were also brainwashed to vote against their own interests (farmers, fishing communities, etc) by a toxic mix of social media and tabloid frothing. A key part of the Vote Leave strategy was also the implication that there would be another referendum after the initial one -- which, of course, never happened. My mother, an otherwise smart and sensible woman, voted for Brexit, though her father and grandmother were both immigrants from Europe and directly benefitted from our political closeness with the continent. She refuses to admit to it now.
It's difficult to overstate just how much these lies were packaged and sold in a way that made them sound not only sensible, but like the only possible choice. Of course they knew it couldn't all be delivered. They just didn't care.
posted by fight or flight at 2:32 PM on April 3 [14 favorites]
I was disappointed in the level to which Dominic Cummings' philosophy and agenda was elevated in this piece. It's, like, he's not wrong, exactly, in the way that a broken Tory can be right two elections out of four on some point. But he's not right, either.
posted by danhon at 3:00 PM on April 3 [10 favorites]
posted by danhon at 3:00 PM on April 3 [10 favorites]
The article neatly encapsulates so much of what I have felt but been unable to articulate - I'm glad it was written and I'm glad I read it and I'm glad it has been posted.
I've worked in local government since 14th November 1988 and have seen and felt the effects of various political whims and notions on both the public sector and the people we work for - not the councillors but the communities we serve. It started with the Thatcherite dismantling of the economic skeleton of the country and selling off things like the energy providers to private interests so they could now rack up prices to the point where people need to make serious decisions about food vs heating. Opening up the GB banking system to the point where oligarchs can use huge, empty London mansions as safety deposit boxes AND washing machines at the same time. Starting the evil whispers about privatisation of the NHS, while simultaneously strangling its finances so privatisation becomes the only way out.
It's all Tory policy and it stinks.
The real problems began in 2010, though, when the ConDems came to power and proceeded to asset strip everything of value. That's when things really started to go south and it started to screw up the services and facilities that ordinary people rely on in their everyday lives. Less money to councils means more children are at risk because overworked and underpaid social workers are off on sick leave as they have too many cases and too few colleagues. Sports pitches can't be maintained in enough numbers and to a sufficient standard to allow people to use them regularly enough to combat the obesity epidemic and make inroads into the chronic ill health that so many people suffer from in deprived areas (that the NHS will then need to spend money it doesn't have on treating). Libraries are constantly under threat of closure as soft targets - and those that remain are now doing double duty as warm spaces for those people who can't afford to beat their homes ...
At the risk of coming across as completely naive, but frankly at this stage and seeing what's happening all around me, I don't care, this is to my mind the epitome of the problems created when rich (mostly) male, (mostly) white people who have been brought up believing there's no such thing as society are handed the reins and told to have fun with their toy country. They don't have to worry about the consequences of their actions and they don't care about the disastrous impacts those actions have on others. I don't think anyone who's never had a job or never needed to worry about the bills should be allowed to stand for election in any capacity - and serving an internship in Daddy's bank before going to Oxbridge to do a politics or economics degree does not count. Ten years worth of paying all the taxes, bills and NI out of a so-called living wage should do it.
My current council deals with some of the most deprived and economically challenged areas of the West Midlands and I have colleagues who are working themselves to the bone to bring in grants and funding to help regenerate a once-thriving and productive industrial area full of hard-working, decent people. No thanks to the Tories, who provide the funding, yes, but from the same leaky pot that every other council has to beg from.
I think the Labour Party will win the election, but they are taking on the biggest, most poisoned chalice in my lived experience.
posted by Martha My Dear Prudence at 3:20 PM on April 3 [45 favorites]
I've worked in local government since 14th November 1988 and have seen and felt the effects of various political whims and notions on both the public sector and the people we work for - not the councillors but the communities we serve. It started with the Thatcherite dismantling of the economic skeleton of the country and selling off things like the energy providers to private interests so they could now rack up prices to the point where people need to make serious decisions about food vs heating. Opening up the GB banking system to the point where oligarchs can use huge, empty London mansions as safety deposit boxes AND washing machines at the same time. Starting the evil whispers about privatisation of the NHS, while simultaneously strangling its finances so privatisation becomes the only way out.
It's all Tory policy and it stinks.
The real problems began in 2010, though, when the ConDems came to power and proceeded to asset strip everything of value. That's when things really started to go south and it started to screw up the services and facilities that ordinary people rely on in their everyday lives. Less money to councils means more children are at risk because overworked and underpaid social workers are off on sick leave as they have too many cases and too few colleagues. Sports pitches can't be maintained in enough numbers and to a sufficient standard to allow people to use them regularly enough to combat the obesity epidemic and make inroads into the chronic ill health that so many people suffer from in deprived areas (that the NHS will then need to spend money it doesn't have on treating). Libraries are constantly under threat of closure as soft targets - and those that remain are now doing double duty as warm spaces for those people who can't afford to beat their homes ...
At the risk of coming across as completely naive, but frankly at this stage and seeing what's happening all around me, I don't care, this is to my mind the epitome of the problems created when rich (mostly) male, (mostly) white people who have been brought up believing there's no such thing as society are handed the reins and told to have fun with their toy country. They don't have to worry about the consequences of their actions and they don't care about the disastrous impacts those actions have on others. I don't think anyone who's never had a job or never needed to worry about the bills should be allowed to stand for election in any capacity - and serving an internship in Daddy's bank before going to Oxbridge to do a politics or economics degree does not count. Ten years worth of paying all the taxes, bills and NI out of a so-called living wage should do it.
My current council deals with some of the most deprived and economically challenged areas of the West Midlands and I have colleagues who are working themselves to the bone to bring in grants and funding to help regenerate a once-thriving and productive industrial area full of hard-working, decent people. No thanks to the Tories, who provide the funding, yes, but from the same leaky pot that every other council has to beg from.
I think the Labour Party will win the election, but they are taking on the biggest, most poisoned chalice in my lived experience.
posted by Martha My Dear Prudence at 3:20 PM on April 3 [45 favorites]
every time i hear about the dire situation in the UK, i go check @ElectionMapsUK on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK
PM plans for a General Election in the second half of the year; here's hoping for a tory shellacking 🤞
posted by slater at 3:24 PM on April 3
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK
PM plans for a General Election in the second half of the year; here's hoping for a tory shellacking 🤞
posted by slater at 3:24 PM on April 3
fight or flight: The vibe is very much "anyone but a Tory"...
I've not laughed the merch, the full slogan will be: If not 'never again the tories', why not 'anyone but a tory' this time?
posted by k3ninho at 3:26 PM on April 3
I've not laughed the merch, the full slogan will be: If not 'never again the tories', why not 'anyone but a tory' this time?
posted by k3ninho at 3:26 PM on April 3
Modern Britain: the sixth-richest economy in the world, with 12 million people living in absolute poverty.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:03 PM on April 3 [10 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:03 PM on April 3 [10 favorites]
> I think that's part of the brilliance of the approach, actually--all the people he interviewed were ostensibly part of the governing class for the last decade and a half (and is in fact still in power) and all they can do is point fingers at each other like spiderman.gif
Conservatism is the same everywhere; it cannot fail, it can only be failed.
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:06 PM on April 3 [10 favorites]
Conservatism is the same everywhere; it cannot fail, it can only be failed.
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:06 PM on April 3 [10 favorites]
Swell article. Tone leans kinda dispassionate and factual, with a touch of irony. As a Canadian I can whine at length about how greedy and moronic our leaders are, but when I look towards Britain I can only sigh, it's much worse.
One thing British culture is genius at is sarcasm. All my international co-workers agreed that British comedy is the best and snarkiest in the world (even my French mates!). Okay, if we need a bit more sarcasm here: perennial favourites Sleaford Mods.
posted by ovvl at 4:29 PM on April 3 [3 favorites]
One thing British culture is genius at is sarcasm. All my international co-workers agreed that British comedy is the best and snarkiest in the world (even my French mates!). Okay, if we need a bit more sarcasm here: perennial favourites Sleaford Mods.
posted by ovvl at 4:29 PM on April 3 [3 favorites]
Modern Britain: the sixth-richest economy in the world, with 12 million people living in absolute poverty.
That's the saddest part about the current condition of the UK, that this all is so completely needless. The UK is a wealthy country and could solve all of these issues, but like is increasingly the case here in the US, there is regulatory and political capture by people who think they can profit through mass immiseration (and they are probably right, too, there is a lot of money to be made with poverty).
posted by Dip Flash at 4:57 PM on April 3 [16 favorites]
That's the saddest part about the current condition of the UK, that this all is so completely needless. The UK is a wealthy country and could solve all of these issues, but like is increasingly the case here in the US, there is regulatory and political capture by people who think they can profit through mass immiseration (and they are probably right, too, there is a lot of money to be made with poverty).
posted by Dip Flash at 4:57 PM on April 3 [16 favorites]
CNN had a headline about the "blue wall" part of the US electorate*, which was new to me - but I have long familiarity with the "red wall" constituencies in the UK all through Brexit-cetera... anybody guess whether that really is an instance of US media re-working that UK-ism? As a royal watcher Nick Abbot listener, by learning the answer, I can put the etymologies in order, which any fool know gets you extra points.
Egad, a commenter with material.
*Rust belt
posted by Rat Spatula at 8:16 PM on April 3
Egad, a commenter with material.
*Rust belt
posted by Rat Spatula at 8:16 PM on April 3
Conservatism is the same everywhere; it cannot fail, it can only be failed.
I feel like this is a great summary, but one that requires a rewording so that the reader knows they are the mark.
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 8:41 PM on April 3 [2 favorites]
I feel like this is a great summary, but one that requires a rewording so that the reader knows they are the mark.
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 8:41 PM on April 3 [2 favorites]
I think a lot about this dynamic too. In a lot of ways, even some of the poorest people alive today live richer, more comfortable lives than kings and emperors a millennium or two ago. Vaccines, antibiotics, science-based medicine, and sanitation keep us all healthier. Information technology makes entertainment and education broadly accessible. Industrial manufacturing and agriculture produces cheap and plentiful food and clothing. I'm spinning a bit of a rosy picture here, obviously these things come with downsides and complexities as well, but I guess what I'm driving at is that no matter how wealthy you were in 0 A.D., you could not buy a cure for say, syphilis, tuberculosis, plague, or even just an infected wound. And today luxuries like "eating meat" and "having a warm bed" are within reach of billions.
The lack of imagination of the wealthy today is that they cannot see that they live in similar poverty. Elon Musk could find out he has aggressive brain cancer tomorrow. Jeff Bezos could have a stroke. Mark Zuckerberg's plane could hit a vulture and fall out of the sky. For all the hype about becoming a "multi-planetary civilization" we are still probably generations from achieving a self-sustaining habitation anywhere except the surface of the earth, so we could all go together in a meteor impact, too. Our world is not yet safe, and money cannot make it safe even for the richest people.
posted by rustcrumb at 8:49 PM on April 3 [7 favorites]
The lack of imagination of the wealthy today is that they cannot see that they live in similar poverty. Elon Musk could find out he has aggressive brain cancer tomorrow. Jeff Bezos could have a stroke. Mark Zuckerberg's plane could hit a vulture and fall out of the sky. For all the hype about becoming a "multi-planetary civilization" we are still probably generations from achieving a self-sustaining habitation anywhere except the surface of the earth, so we could all go together in a meteor impact, too. Our world is not yet safe, and money cannot make it safe even for the richest people.
posted by rustcrumb at 8:49 PM on April 3 [7 favorites]
I thought this article was well written and very much in the stiff upper-lip style of English tradition.
If you look at the UK in isolation, it looks like a complete basket case, for sure. The reality, though, is that it's not so different from most big democracies around the world. Sure, brexit is something unique, but when you take a step back and look at where these countries have been and continue to be heading without going into region-specific events, it's all the same. The rich get richer and the poor get the picture, as Midnight Oil told us.
Everywhere we look, the top 10-20% in any country get richer and more powerful and the rest just manage to get by as best they can. What's the common theme here? It's not brexit or austerity or the equivalent unique events wherever, it's not COVID because things were well and truly nestled into a handbasket long before then. It's driven a lot by the (in my view, obviously) centralisation of politics. In the US, in the UK, in Australia, in New Zealand and lots of others, there is very little difference ideologically between major parties. In my living memory, the left-wing and right-wing parties in these countries were separated by a huge chasm in policy terms but they are now largely indistinguishable.
This has two major impacts. Firstly, there's little policy distinction for voters to choose from so voting has become a contest about personality and who can spend the most. So well-presented charmers with deep pockets get voted into power, regardless of whether they have any actual ability to govern. Secondly, there's no check-and-balance of an effective opposition with fundamentally different policy views to keep the government honest. Everywhere I look, both sides of government are just two sides of the same coin. This is why there was no effective opposition to brexit and why there's no real opposition anywhere to gutting social services to fund tax breaks for the rich and their corporations. Because politicians of the major parties are all of the same views and, except for very few notable exceptions, are rich people with little or no actual experience in the real world that the overwhelming majority live in.
My mind boggles when I think of some of the people 'civilised' countries have elected as their leaders over the last couple of decades - liars, cheats and criminals openly peddling policies that anyone can see are not only fundamentally flawed but that they have no intention of actually implementing. Everyone knows that, but they vote for them anyway. I don't think it's completely true that people get the government they deserve, but they certainly get the one they vote for and I wish people put some thought into where they cast their vote. If everyone voted for the things that would actually help them personally instead of being blinded by the cult of personality, I'm sure we'd have less poverty and inequality in our world.
posted by dg at 9:42 PM on April 3 [5 favorites]
If you look at the UK in isolation, it looks like a complete basket case, for sure. The reality, though, is that it's not so different from most big democracies around the world. Sure, brexit is something unique, but when you take a step back and look at where these countries have been and continue to be heading without going into region-specific events, it's all the same. The rich get richer and the poor get the picture, as Midnight Oil told us.
Everywhere we look, the top 10-20% in any country get richer and more powerful and the rest just manage to get by as best they can. What's the common theme here? It's not brexit or austerity or the equivalent unique events wherever, it's not COVID because things were well and truly nestled into a handbasket long before then. It's driven a lot by the (in my view, obviously) centralisation of politics. In the US, in the UK, in Australia, in New Zealand and lots of others, there is very little difference ideologically between major parties. In my living memory, the left-wing and right-wing parties in these countries were separated by a huge chasm in policy terms but they are now largely indistinguishable.
This has two major impacts. Firstly, there's little policy distinction for voters to choose from so voting has become a contest about personality and who can spend the most. So well-presented charmers with deep pockets get voted into power, regardless of whether they have any actual ability to govern. Secondly, there's no check-and-balance of an effective opposition with fundamentally different policy views to keep the government honest. Everywhere I look, both sides of government are just two sides of the same coin. This is why there was no effective opposition to brexit and why there's no real opposition anywhere to gutting social services to fund tax breaks for the rich and their corporations. Because politicians of the major parties are all of the same views and, except for very few notable exceptions, are rich people with little or no actual experience in the real world that the overwhelming majority live in.
My mind boggles when I think of some of the people 'civilised' countries have elected as their leaders over the last couple of decades - liars, cheats and criminals openly peddling policies that anyone can see are not only fundamentally flawed but that they have no intention of actually implementing. Everyone knows that, but they vote for them anyway. I don't think it's completely true that people get the government they deserve, but they certainly get the one they vote for and I wish people put some thought into where they cast their vote. If everyone voted for the things that would actually help them personally instead of being blinded by the cult of personality, I'm sure we'd have less poverty and inequality in our world.
posted by dg at 9:42 PM on April 3 [5 favorites]
-Conservatives set for heavy UK election defeat to opposition Labour, survey shows
-Britain will dislike the Labour government in no time :P (also btw Welsh Leader's Rise Leaves No UK Government Led by a White Man ;)
meanwhile!
-As Leo Varadkar departs, who in the Irish government will hold off Sinn Féin?
-Sinn Féin on the brink of power in both the North and Republic of Ireland (The perilous path to Irish unity)
posted by kliuless at 12:21 AM on April 4 [3 favorites]
-Britain will dislike the Labour government in no time :P (also btw Welsh Leader's Rise Leaves No UK Government Led by a White Man ;)
meanwhile!
-As Leo Varadkar departs, who in the Irish government will hold off Sinn Féin?
-Sinn Féin on the brink of power in both the North and Republic of Ireland (The perilous path to Irish unity)
posted by kliuless at 12:21 AM on April 4 [3 favorites]
maybe (sir) demis hassabis can pull something from his sleeve? "After graduating from Cambridge University with a computer-science degree, he started Elixir Studios, a company that produced a political-simulation game called 'Republic: The Revolution.' 'We are re-creating a whole living, breathing country in minute detail', he told one interviewer when promoting Republic."
posted by kliuless at 12:48 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
posted by kliuless at 12:48 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
"in New Zealand ..., there is very little difference ideologically between major parties", sadly no longer true: the ruling right coalition is comprised of National (core members are christo-fascist and Heritage linked, easily verifiable but journalists refuse to ask 'personal' questions), Act (basically an Atlas and NRA project), and NZ First home-grown racists and look like QANON,. All three are anti-public health and ran a joint election campaign against! clean water.
NZ Labour are now weak but not evil.
In Australia the shadow govt. core are also christo-fascist. Dutton is frightening.
posted by unearthed at 12:56 AM on April 4 [7 favorites]
NZ Labour are now weak but not evil.
In Australia the shadow govt. core are also christo-fascist. Dutton is frightening.
posted by unearthed at 12:56 AM on April 4 [7 favorites]
The problem is first-past-the-post. Britain won't get real reform until the electoral system turns toward proportional representation. Many things are not perfect here in the Netherlands but at least i can vote for the Greens or for The Party for the Animals and know that my vote is not just thrown away.
When I lived in Britain, I was a member of the Green party. I even canvassed door-to-door and spoke to voters. Everyone was very polite and a few people were extremely welcoming but even for them there was a sort of "sigh, I wish I could vote for you guys" attitude.
I still don't fully understand, even today, why a majority of voters voted for Brexit or why they have kept voting Tory. I left Britain in 2018 because I wanted no part of this mass dismantling of everything I loved about the country.
I did have one friend who voted Brexit and I watched him change in real time. He was a moderate liberal that suddenly, it seems, found a focus for all his troubles. Everything was the fault of "the EU", even things that had nothing at all to do with them. i saw him fall under some sort of mass delusion. That the strange ways of foreign meddlers were what was holding back the country from greatness.
These days, he deeply, deeply regrets his vote. He knows he was duped and so his regret takes the form of anger. He recently told me something I don't fully understand, that he not only wishes to be back in the EU but that the EU should "take over" the UK because it is a state that cannot govern itself and has betrayed its people.
Sometimes instead of admitting the truth, you dig in deeper so as to not admit you were duped. You believe you still have your pride, after all. This is why Labour will win, as a sort of protest against the Tories, but they won't change a thing. They will continue Tory policies because the country as a whole is not ready to admit that it has bought so many lies and voted for so many scoundrels. That it is the voters, not "the EU" or any other external force that have allowed corporations to pollute their rivers, cut their health services and consign the poorest and weakest to despair and death.
In a country where people pride themselves on "fairness" they will have to first admit that they have been complicit in creating what is now one of the "unfairest" countries in the world.
posted by vacapinta at 1:44 AM on April 4 [19 favorites]
When I lived in Britain, I was a member of the Green party. I even canvassed door-to-door and spoke to voters. Everyone was very polite and a few people were extremely welcoming but even for them there was a sort of "sigh, I wish I could vote for you guys" attitude.
I still don't fully understand, even today, why a majority of voters voted for Brexit or why they have kept voting Tory. I left Britain in 2018 because I wanted no part of this mass dismantling of everything I loved about the country.
I did have one friend who voted Brexit and I watched him change in real time. He was a moderate liberal that suddenly, it seems, found a focus for all his troubles. Everything was the fault of "the EU", even things that had nothing at all to do with them. i saw him fall under some sort of mass delusion. That the strange ways of foreign meddlers were what was holding back the country from greatness.
These days, he deeply, deeply regrets his vote. He knows he was duped and so his regret takes the form of anger. He recently told me something I don't fully understand, that he not only wishes to be back in the EU but that the EU should "take over" the UK because it is a state that cannot govern itself and has betrayed its people.
Sometimes instead of admitting the truth, you dig in deeper so as to not admit you were duped. You believe you still have your pride, after all. This is why Labour will win, as a sort of protest against the Tories, but they won't change a thing. They will continue Tory policies because the country as a whole is not ready to admit that it has bought so many lies and voted for so many scoundrels. That it is the voters, not "the EU" or any other external force that have allowed corporations to pollute their rivers, cut their health services and consign the poorest and weakest to despair and death.
In a country where people pride themselves on "fairness" they will have to first admit that they have been complicit in creating what is now one of the "unfairest" countries in the world.
posted by vacapinta at 1:44 AM on April 4 [19 favorites]
Frowner, use of food banks under the Tories has soared.
I am heartbroken I have to move from France, which has been my home for 11 years, to this version of the UK.
posted by ellieBOA at 2:12 AM on April 4 [4 favorites]
I am heartbroken I have to move from France, which has been my home for 11 years, to this version of the UK.
posted by ellieBOA at 2:12 AM on April 4 [4 favorites]
From "Britain will dislike the Labour government in no time":
I think Britain probably will dislike the Labour government in no time, but not because of "statism" and "producer interests", rather because Starmer won't do anything bold enough to fix Britain's many problems.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 2:27 AM on April 4 [10 favorites]
The clamour to move left will build soon after Labour wins. For all Starmer’s underrated toughness, this is still a party that twice offered Jeremy Corbyn as prime minister. It has a deputy leader who is too accident-prone to be tenable in government, and still better than whichever tub thumper might replace her in an internal election... Such a party can’t but nudge Starmer left over time.I would love to believe that. But it looks to me very like the usual Tory attack line going back to the Blair-era "New Labour, New Danger" days at least, where they pretend that a moderate or rightist Labour leader is going to magically transform to an extreme socialist after the election.
I think Britain probably will dislike the Labour government in no time, but not because of "statism" and "producer interests", rather because Starmer won't do anything bold enough to fix Britain's many problems.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 2:27 AM on April 4 [10 favorites]
Britain won't get real reform until the electoral system turns toward proportional representation
I've known since I was about 20 that nothing will change here unless we get electoral reform, and that electoral reform is almost impossible without media reform, and there's never going to be any appetite for prying the press out of the grasp of Murdoch's (somehow-not-yet) corpse-hands, so we're never going to get the kind of media reform that could actually allow electoral reform to happen.
I'm turning 35 this year and the only thing that's changed is that I try to think about this stuff a little less often; it's still every bit as grim on the occasions when I do think about it as it was when I was basically a child.
posted by terretu at 2:29 AM on April 4 [8 favorites]
I've known since I was about 20 that nothing will change here unless we get electoral reform, and that electoral reform is almost impossible without media reform, and there's never going to be any appetite for prying the press out of the grasp of Murdoch's (somehow-not-yet) corpse-hands, so we're never going to get the kind of media reform that could actually allow electoral reform to happen.
I'm turning 35 this year and the only thing that's changed is that I try to think about this stuff a little less often; it's still every bit as grim on the occasions when I do think about it as it was when I was basically a child.
posted by terretu at 2:29 AM on April 4 [8 favorites]
This to me is the key bit...
"Part of the problem, Willetts explained, was that Britain’s richest twenty per cent had largely been spared the effects of the past fourteen years—and that made it genuinely difficult for them to comprehend the damage."
It matches with the observation that the UK and US are poor societies with some very rich people (Financial Times, archived) and my own experience. I meet plenty of people who are totally alienated from the communities they live amongst, their kids don't go to state schools (or they move to the nearest education authority that has grammar schools and pay tuition fees to pass the entry exam), they have private health insurance through work and they do all their shopping on the internet, for many people to be aware of the problem requires effort that they just don't care to make.
posted by tomp at 3:17 AM on April 4 [6 favorites]
"Part of the problem, Willetts explained, was that Britain’s richest twenty per cent had largely been spared the effects of the past fourteen years—and that made it genuinely difficult for them to comprehend the damage."
It matches with the observation that the UK and US are poor societies with some very rich people (Financial Times, archived) and my own experience. I meet plenty of people who are totally alienated from the communities they live amongst, their kids don't go to state schools (or they move to the nearest education authority that has grammar schools and pay tuition fees to pass the entry exam), they have private health insurance through work and they do all their shopping on the internet, for many people to be aware of the problem requires effort that they just don't care to make.
posted by tomp at 3:17 AM on April 4 [6 favorites]
Wanted some numbers to back up my comment above:
2010 food bank packages handed out: 60,000
2010 British population: 62.7 million
2023 food bank packages handed out: 3 million
2023 British population: 67 million
11.7 million families currently live in poverty, which includes 30% of British children.
It’s even bleaker when you’re disabled like me:
Nearly six in ten (8.6 million; 58%) of all people in poverty live in a family that includes a disabled person. Nearly a third (31%) of those in poverty are disabled: a total of 4.7 million people. [PDF]
posted by ellieBOA at 3:27 AM on April 4 [7 favorites]
2010 food bank packages handed out: 60,000
2010 British population: 62.7 million
2023 food bank packages handed out: 3 million
2023 British population: 67 million
11.7 million families currently live in poverty, which includes 30% of British children.
It’s even bleaker when you’re disabled like me:
Nearly six in ten (8.6 million; 58%) of all people in poverty live in a family that includes a disabled person. Nearly a third (31%) of those in poverty are disabled: a total of 4.7 million people. [PDF]
posted by ellieBOA at 3:27 AM on April 4 [7 favorites]
This colors the perception by tourists too. I've tried to explain how dire things are in the UK to others who just flew into London, had some 'high tea' and noticed how affluent everybody looks. They've been to the 'countryside' too which usually means some toy-town in the Cotswolds.
Tourists are basically just seeing the one Potemkin Village.
posted by vacapinta at 3:32 AM on April 4 [2 favorites]
Tourists are basically just seeing the one Potemkin Village.
posted by vacapinta at 3:32 AM on April 4 [2 favorites]
I meet plenty of people who are totally alienated from the communities they live amongst, their kids don't go to state schools (or they move to the nearest education authority that has grammar schools and pay tuition fees to pass the entry exam), they have private health insurance through work and they do all their shopping on the internet, for many people to be aware of the problem requires effort that they just don't care to make.
I'm rich by this definition (no kids, but BUPA and Amazon Prime). I have given up, so yeah, won't be making much effort. Grimsby and friends voted for their woes, not out of stupidity but out of proud ignorance. They were warned about the effects of imposing trade sanctions on ourselves. People were posting shit like "I'll eat grass if it gets us out from under the jackboot of the EU", so now they can see how it tastes, I guess.
posted by pw201 at 3:34 AM on April 4 [3 favorites]
I'm rich by this definition (no kids, but BUPA and Amazon Prime). I have given up, so yeah, won't be making much effort. Grimsby and friends voted for their woes, not out of stupidity but out of proud ignorance. They were warned about the effects of imposing trade sanctions on ourselves. People were posting shit like "I'll eat grass if it gets us out from under the jackboot of the EU", so now they can see how it tastes, I guess.
posted by pw201 at 3:34 AM on April 4 [3 favorites]
Its an interesting article - and quite accurate I think.. A quick word count on Sam Knight's article tells an additional story:
UK/United Kingdom: 6
England/English: 20
Wales/Welsh:1
Northern Ireland: 0
Scotland/Scottish: 0
The story and drama's of Conservative party rule since 2010 are indeed focused on English political concerns and voting intentions. The last time a majority of Scottish voters opted for the Conservative party was 1955 - so there is a parallel story of non-English parts of the UK being increasingly politically coerced.
posted by rongorongo at 3:59 AM on April 4 [7 favorites]
UK/United Kingdom: 6
England/English: 20
Wales/Welsh:1
Northern Ireland: 0
Scotland/Scottish: 0
The story and drama's of Conservative party rule since 2010 are indeed focused on English political concerns and voting intentions. The last time a majority of Scottish voters opted for the Conservative party was 1955 - so there is a parallel story of non-English parts of the UK being increasingly politically coerced.
posted by rongorongo at 3:59 AM on April 4 [7 favorites]
The Guardian is reporting the Conservatives are now planning to sell their members' data.
posted by biffa at 4:31 AM on April 4
posted by biffa at 4:31 AM on April 4
The Guardian is reporting the Conservatives are now planning to sell their members' data.
Well they've sold everything else.
posted by tomsk at 4:53 AM on April 4 [8 favorites]
Well they've sold everything else.
posted by tomsk at 4:53 AM on April 4 [8 favorites]
...rather because Starmer won't do anything bold enough to fix Britain's many problems.
I think this is a problem in politics in general, this seeming need on the part of the electorate for everything to be fixed by one big finger snap. It’s quite easy for wreck things in a single motion, but repairing the wreck requires time and a whole lot of work.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:03 AM on April 4 [4 favorites]
I think this is a problem in politics in general, this seeming need on the part of the electorate for everything to be fixed by one big finger snap. It’s quite easy for wreck things in a single motion, but repairing the wreck requires time and a whole lot of work.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:03 AM on April 4 [4 favorites]
It's not about "one big finger snap". Doing almost anything significant to improve Britain is going to involve either
1. Spending money.
2. Angering bigots.
Starmer's plan seems to be to match or almost match Tory spending plans, so 1 isn't happening.
Starmer has also backtracked and is refusing self-id for trans people. There is to be no softening of drug laws, indeed they attack the Lib Dems for being too soft on cannabis users. So there doesn't seem much chance of 2 either.
Starmer seems generally to the right of Joe Biden, who at least has issued pardons for marijuana users, and launched a major investment programme with the Inflation Reduction Act.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 5:40 AM on April 4 [10 favorites]
1. Spending money.
2. Angering bigots.
Starmer's plan seems to be to match or almost match Tory spending plans, so 1 isn't happening.
Starmer has also backtracked and is refusing self-id for trans people. There is to be no softening of drug laws, indeed they attack the Lib Dems for being too soft on cannabis users. So there doesn't seem much chance of 2 either.
Starmer seems generally to the right of Joe Biden, who at least has issued pardons for marijuana users, and launched a major investment programme with the Inflation Reduction Act.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 5:40 AM on April 4 [10 favorites]
This colors the perception by tourists too. I've tried to explain how dire things are in the UK to others who just flew into London, had some 'high tea' and noticed how affluent everybody looks.
Depends also the background and thus their own delusions. My friend and I would be tourists now but we used to live there (well she, I was elsewhere) and between the two of us, visit fairly often. Last year's visit was rough even for all the Potemkin villagery. Overall it was, sentiment-wise, less angry than when just after COVID vaccinations were rolling out worldwide, but it's like people just want to keep their head down and get on - so a lot of nice personal interactions but the overall dingyness is noticeable.
We have (had) an in-joke economic indicator for London: on Oxford Street there was a pizza and kebab place, which used to be a literal hole in the wall selling £1 slices almost thirty years ago, then a proper shopfront and every few or less years we'd go or ask whoever we know who's back from a visit, to see the prices. Last visit, it's gone. It's a small thing, but it was what we thought a dependable one.
posted by cendawanita at 6:15 AM on April 4 [2 favorites]
Depends also the background and thus their own delusions. My friend and I would be tourists now but we used to live there (well she, I was elsewhere) and between the two of us, visit fairly often. Last year's visit was rough even for all the Potemkin villagery. Overall it was, sentiment-wise, less angry than when just after COVID vaccinations were rolling out worldwide, but it's like people just want to keep their head down and get on - so a lot of nice personal interactions but the overall dingyness is noticeable.
We have (had) an in-joke economic indicator for London: on Oxford Street there was a pizza and kebab place, which used to be a literal hole in the wall selling £1 slices almost thirty years ago, then a proper shopfront and every few or less years we'd go or ask whoever we know who's back from a visit, to see the prices. Last visit, it's gone. It's a small thing, but it was what we thought a dependable one.
posted by cendawanita at 6:15 AM on April 4 [2 favorites]
> Modern Britain: the sixth-richest economy in the world, with 12 million people living in absolute poverty.
This is a desirable and sought outcome for robber barons, to import the US term from our Gilded Age. You crush the hopes and dreams of the working class into poverty, remove social support so that they end up too broke to afford an escape, and then turn the screws on them to extract maximum profit for the wealthy class.
This is a well-known pattern and it’s why they’re all pointing fingers at each other: to acknowledge the truth of it would be to see it knocked down by a worker’s revolt. So instead, it’s presented as Circumstances, as The Outsiders Are Taking Your Jobs, as anything that lets them sell it for one more election. If looking like a clown helps that happen, then they’ll find the best wealthy clown they have in their strata, to sacrifice one person’s perceived reputation in the eyes of the non-wealthy in order to sell another election and continue the profits. It’s worked out very well for them.
posted by Callisto Prime at 6:16 AM on April 4 [5 favorites]
This is a desirable and sought outcome for robber barons, to import the US term from our Gilded Age. You crush the hopes and dreams of the working class into poverty, remove social support so that they end up too broke to afford an escape, and then turn the screws on them to extract maximum profit for the wealthy class.
This is a well-known pattern and it’s why they’re all pointing fingers at each other: to acknowledge the truth of it would be to see it knocked down by a worker’s revolt. So instead, it’s presented as Circumstances, as The Outsiders Are Taking Your Jobs, as anything that lets them sell it for one more election. If looking like a clown helps that happen, then they’ll find the best wealthy clown they have in their strata, to sacrifice one person’s perceived reputation in the eyes of the non-wealthy in order to sell another election and continue the profits. It’s worked out very well for them.
posted by Callisto Prime at 6:16 AM on April 4 [5 favorites]
Its not so much the spending money as the wish to be seen to not be raising taxes, with voters split as to whether to bring in more to enable more public spending. Labour policy seems to extend to not raising taxes for the wealthiest members of UK society, who have done quite nicely out of the last 14 years.
Rachel Reeves, the Shadow Chancellor, and odds on to be the Chancellor come the GE has various views which would certainly have let her fit into the pre-Johnson Tory party. She described her own constituency as 'like a tinderbox' if immigration was not dealt with, doesn't want free movement of workers, opposes a return to the EU, has claimed she will be tougher on benefits than the Tories. In the last year she was quoted as saying "a Labour government would not introduce annual wealth and land taxes; raise income tax; equalise capital gains rates and income tax; rejoin the European single market and customs union; change the Bank of England's inflation target and reform its rigid mandate; or take private utilities into public ownership, except for the railways".
posted by biffa at 6:17 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
Rachel Reeves, the Shadow Chancellor, and odds on to be the Chancellor come the GE has various views which would certainly have let her fit into the pre-Johnson Tory party. She described her own constituency as 'like a tinderbox' if immigration was not dealt with, doesn't want free movement of workers, opposes a return to the EU, has claimed she will be tougher on benefits than the Tories. In the last year she was quoted as saying "a Labour government would not introduce annual wealth and land taxes; raise income tax; equalise capital gains rates and income tax; rejoin the European single market and customs union; change the Bank of England's inflation target and reform its rigid mandate; or take private utilities into public ownership, except for the railways".
posted by biffa at 6:17 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
While Sir K might triumph in Enger-land, in Scotland it will be 'pick yur Overton Windae, pal, yur leavin!', I suspect.
posted by aeshnid at 6:22 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
posted by aeshnid at 6:22 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
He insists that the cuts, ultimately, enabled the U.K.’s public finances to withstand the pandemic and the energy crisis that followed Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. “There’s no counterfactual,” he told me.A couple of paragraphs later, counterfactuals provided:
“What I say to Tories now is, Look, we are behind for various reasons,” Willetts said, carefully. “You can argue about it. But our household incomes are clearly lower than France or Germany or the Netherlands.”posted by clawsoon at 8:03 AM on April 4 [3 favorites]
bq: Is there corroboration for heating costs going up by 3.5 times?
Maybe not that much, with the price cap being lowered, but still a lot.
posted by wenestvedt at 8:47 AM on April 4
Maybe not that much, with the price cap being lowered, but still a lot.
“Great news! Your unit rates are going down.” E.ON’s letter to customers starts with glad tidings – but, as it soon admits, there is an element of their bills that is set to go up in most parts of the country.From the Guardian about a week ago
Despite a headline cut of 12.3% in April’s energy price cap, yet again standing charges are rising. In E.ON’s case, on its Next Flex tariff, electricity charges are due to rise from 62.205p to 67.9041p – an increase of just over 9% – while for gas, charges go up from 29.595p to 31.894p (up almost 8%).
..
According to the charity National Energy Action, when the new price cap comes into force on Monday, the average standing charge for dual-fuel customers paying by direct debit will be 83% higher than it was in April 2019.
posted by wenestvedt at 8:47 AM on April 4
re: heating costs - it's worth noting that the capped prices apply to households, not businesses. Business energy costs rose even more substantially than those for households.
posted by parm at 8:54 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
posted by parm at 8:54 AM on April 4 [1 favorite]
Labour tried a bold approach under Corbyn and the result was a huge Tory majority. Starmer is being careful because he knows the election's not won yet and that any hostage to fortune he gives the Tories will be ruthlessly exploited. Much as we may wish otherwise, the bulk of the British electorate is still pretty suspicious of anything that could be portrayed as extremity on the left - which brings us back to the severity of that defeat under Corbyn again.
Let's get Labour safely into power before we start crying "Betrayal" shall we?
posted by Paul Slade at 10:00 AM on April 4 [3 favorites]
Let's get Labour safely into power before we start crying "Betrayal" shall we?
posted by Paul Slade at 10:00 AM on April 4 [3 favorites]
I still don't fully understand, even today, why a majority of voters voted for Brexit or why they have kept voting Tory.
I did have one friend who voted Brexit and I watched him change in real time. He was a moderate liberal that suddenly, it seems, found a focus for all his troubles. Everything was the fault of "the EU", even things that had nothing at all to do with them. i saw him fall under some sort of mass delusion. That the strange ways of foreign meddlers were what was holding back the country from greatness.
I mean... you do fully understand. You really do.
Your friend, as you noted, subsequently realized much of the degree to which he'd been actively duped. Millions of others haven't, because they either can't or don't want to because The Other is still banging on the doorstep. The Other may be Shadowy Elites in Brussels, or it may be Migrant Hordes Come To Murder Us All In Our Beds, or it may be Jammy Grandpas Ushering In Full Communism, but it all usually circles around to the same principle -- that if one's way of life is changing, and you don't want it to change at all, you're vulnerable to those telling you that if you vote for them, it will never change.
The change is inevitable, of course, and more so by the day. But no one ever wants to hear that.
posted by delfin at 10:05 AM on April 4 [4 favorites]
I did have one friend who voted Brexit and I watched him change in real time. He was a moderate liberal that suddenly, it seems, found a focus for all his troubles. Everything was the fault of "the EU", even things that had nothing at all to do with them. i saw him fall under some sort of mass delusion. That the strange ways of foreign meddlers were what was holding back the country from greatness.
I mean... you do fully understand. You really do.
Your friend, as you noted, subsequently realized much of the degree to which he'd been actively duped. Millions of others haven't, because they either can't or don't want to because The Other is still banging on the doorstep. The Other may be Shadowy Elites in Brussels, or it may be Migrant Hordes Come To Murder Us All In Our Beds, or it may be Jammy Grandpas Ushering In Full Communism, but it all usually circles around to the same principle -- that if one's way of life is changing, and you don't want it to change at all, you're vulnerable to those telling you that if you vote for them, it will never change.
The change is inevitable, of course, and more so by the day. But no one ever wants to hear that.
posted by delfin at 10:05 AM on April 4 [4 favorites]
Brexit is one of the less impactful examples of how the internet has empowered Orwellian mass delusion. It only ruins society on a single island. Others will follow as the EU is dismantled country by country.
The next Trump presidency, however, seals the deal for the entire planet. Everything is unfolding as I predicted.
posted by CynicalKnight at 10:43 AM on April 4
The next Trump presidency, however, seals the deal for the entire planet. Everything is unfolding as I predicted.
posted by CynicalKnight at 10:43 AM on April 4
Labour tried a bold approach under Corbyn and the result was a huge Tory majority.
Look, Jeremy Corbyn was a terrible party leader in many ways - refusing to campaign on an anti-Brexit platform when Brexit was already actively failing because Corbyn hates the corporatist elements of the EU was the biggest mistake he made but far from the only one - but let's be honest here, "Labour" didn't try a bold approach because the centrist/rightish half of the party absolutely refused to recognize him as leader in any meaningful way, and that half of the party was actively sandbagging him right from the get-go, actively cooperating with the right-wing tabloid barons who want Labour dead and in the dust as a political force, to sabotage Corbyn at every possible point.
Keir Starmer is a coward who's going to win by default because the Tories have failed so miserably and because Labour is the only other realistic option on the table. He is not some political genius; he isn't even close. He's a Joe Lieberman type in a position to make hay if he just lies there like a dead fish, so dead fish it is.
posted by mightygodking at 11:38 AM on April 4 [10 favorites]
Look, Jeremy Corbyn was a terrible party leader in many ways - refusing to campaign on an anti-Brexit platform when Brexit was already actively failing because Corbyn hates the corporatist elements of the EU was the biggest mistake he made but far from the only one - but let's be honest here, "Labour" didn't try a bold approach because the centrist/rightish half of the party absolutely refused to recognize him as leader in any meaningful way, and that half of the party was actively sandbagging him right from the get-go, actively cooperating with the right-wing tabloid barons who want Labour dead and in the dust as a political force, to sabotage Corbyn at every possible point.
Keir Starmer is a coward who's going to win by default because the Tories have failed so miserably and because Labour is the only other realistic option on the table. He is not some political genius; he isn't even close. He's a Joe Lieberman type in a position to make hay if he just lies there like a dead fish, so dead fish it is.
posted by mightygodking at 11:38 AM on April 4 [10 favorites]
Look, Jeremy Corbyn was a terrible party leader in many ways
Thanks. More people should say this out loud. Not least because the failure to say it out loud and learn from it has led to the Starmer strategy, which is as stupid as it gets. Corbyn was and is not fit to be a party leader, not because of his politics, but because of his complete lack of interest in real life humans.
That said, I also think Blair's horrible failure during the Iraq war has broken Labour, and there needs to be a generational change that Starmer is not capable of leading. But I hope I'm wrong. Maybe he will grow to the occasion.
posted by mumimor at 12:03 PM on April 4 [4 favorites]
Thanks. More people should say this out loud. Not least because the failure to say it out loud and learn from it has led to the Starmer strategy, which is as stupid as it gets. Corbyn was and is not fit to be a party leader, not because of his politics, but because of his complete lack of interest in real life humans.
That said, I also think Blair's horrible failure during the Iraq war has broken Labour, and there needs to be a generational change that Starmer is not capable of leading. But I hope I'm wrong. Maybe he will grow to the occasion.
posted by mumimor at 12:03 PM on April 4 [4 favorites]
...rather because Starmer won't do anything bold enough to fix Britain's many problems.
I think this is a problem in politics in general, this seeming need on the part of the electorate for everything to be fixed by one big finger snap. It’s quite easy for wreck things in a single motion, but repairing the wreck requires time and a whole lot of work.
This is a problem everywhere, it seems. No longer are politicians prepared to make big long-term decisions that will see them slump in the polls for a while but emerge victorious when their policy changes take effect because they live from poll to poll. They tinker around the edges, making just enough changes to be able to claim they've fulfilled their election promises and string that out long enough to last them to the next election without having to come up with a single original thought. Where are the great leaders with ling-term vision? Where are the leaders bold enough to drive change and not care about their popularity?
posted by dg at 2:32 PM on April 4 [1 favorite]
I think this is a problem in politics in general, this seeming need on the part of the electorate for everything to be fixed by one big finger snap. It’s quite easy for wreck things in a single motion, but repairing the wreck requires time and a whole lot of work.
This is a problem everywhere, it seems. No longer are politicians prepared to make big long-term decisions that will see them slump in the polls for a while but emerge victorious when their policy changes take effect because they live from poll to poll. They tinker around the edges, making just enough changes to be able to claim they've fulfilled their election promises and string that out long enough to last them to the next election without having to come up with a single original thought. Where are the great leaders with ling-term vision? Where are the leaders bold enough to drive change and not care about their popularity?
posted by dg at 2:32 PM on April 4 [1 favorite]
No longer are politicians prepared to make big long-term decisions that will see them slump in the polls for a while but emerge victorious when their policy changes take effect because they live from poll to poll.
Here in Toronto, mayor Olivia Chow has been doing quite well with a left-wing version of "git 'er done" after a stretch of do-nothing Tory respectability. This probably won't translate everywhere - probably not even to Canada as a whole - but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a larger appetite for a convincing version of "I will get concrete things done for poor people" than the current lukewarm response to anodyne political options suggests.
posted by clawsoon at 2:56 PM on April 4 [1 favorite]
Here in Toronto, mayor Olivia Chow has been doing quite well with a left-wing version of "git 'er done" after a stretch of do-nothing Tory respectability. This probably won't translate everywhere - probably not even to Canada as a whole - but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a larger appetite for a convincing version of "I will get concrete things done for poor people" than the current lukewarm response to anodyne political options suggests.
posted by clawsoon at 2:56 PM on April 4 [1 favorite]
vacapinta
I still don't fully understand, even today, why a majority of voters voted for Brexit or why they have kept voting Tory.
Racism, and 300 years of a class system is a powerfull drug. Easy to tap into for the worst actors, with the Tories on a path to nadir from Cameron, culminating with a core of 'christian' extremist MPs, except Sunak (Hindu) and Braverman (an abusive Buddhist sect) and both products of classism, and caste thinking. The only two not in the ERG. I fully expect to see the election suspended as this is a longer. global project and bigger than little England.
I grew up in the UK till I was 16, I learned racism (and sarcasm) from birth, then I moved to NZ which (at least then) aspired to deal with racism and where classism was seen as a social poison.
posted by unearthed at 10:36 PM on April 4 [2 favorites]
I still don't fully understand, even today, why a majority of voters voted for Brexit or why they have kept voting Tory.
Racism, and 300 years of a class system is a powerfull drug. Easy to tap into for the worst actors, with the Tories on a path to nadir from Cameron, culminating with a core of 'christian' extremist MPs, except Sunak (Hindu) and Braverman (an abusive Buddhist sect) and both products of classism, and caste thinking. The only two not in the ERG. I fully expect to see the election suspended as this is a longer. global project and bigger than little England.
I grew up in the UK till I was 16, I learned racism (and sarcasm) from birth, then I moved to NZ which (at least then) aspired to deal with racism and where classism was seen as a social poison.
posted by unearthed at 10:36 PM on April 4 [2 favorites]
Let's get Labour safely into power before we start crying "Betrayal" shall we?
Nobody said "betrayal". But I think it's worth pointing out that self-id for trans people was originally a plan from Tory Prime Minister Theresa May, abandoned by Boris Johnson as part of his culture wars. It's worrying that Starmer reversed his policy on this. I don't think it's unreasonable to want Keir Starmer to be as socially liberal as Theresa May.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 2:20 AM on April 5 [4 favorites]
Nobody said "betrayal". But I think it's worth pointing out that self-id for trans people was originally a plan from Tory Prime Minister Theresa May, abandoned by Boris Johnson as part of his culture wars. It's worrying that Starmer reversed his policy on this. I don't think it's unreasonable to want Keir Starmer to be as socially liberal as Theresa May.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 2:20 AM on April 5 [4 favorites]
Why are so many carers being taken to court for benefit fraud?
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‘DWP are the real criminals’: carer in tatters after ‘brutal’ fraud prosecution
posted by lalochezia at 6:28 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
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‘DWP are the real criminals’: carer in tatters after ‘brutal’ fraud prosecution
posted by lalochezia at 6:28 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
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