Mark Bankston Versus The Most Divorced Man In The World

April 9, 2024 11:19 AM

As part of a defamation lawsuit against the owner of Twitter for his tweets, Mark Bankston - whom you may recall was the lawyer for the Sandy Hook families in the Texas lawsuit against Alex Jones, where he told the conspiracy theorist that he had recieved a full copy of his phone's contents from his lawyer while cross examining him - has deposed Elon Musk under oath, in a deposition that is a sight to behold.

The deposition - which Musk's lawyer Alex Spiro tried unsuccessfully to seal because he did not understand civil law procedure - gives us Musk unfiltered, with highlights such as his belief that Bankston is the actual plaintiff (and not his client Ben Brody), that a million views is meaningless as are replies, and that he was the owner of the "@ermnmusk" account - an admission that may very well bite him and his lawyer in the ass, as there is evidence that they deleted the account around the time of the discovery order, in a blatant act of spoliation.

posted by NoxAeternum (99 comments total)

“This is your brain.
This is your brain on drugs.
Any questions?”
posted by armoir from antproof case at 11:31 AM on April 9 [2 favorites]

This Spiro fellow does not give an impression of competence.
posted by mhoye at 11:43 AM on April 9 [5 favorites]

I apologize, but this did give me the impetus to look up who truly had the record for being The Most Divorced Man In The World and Musk (remarkably) still has a ways to go.
posted by I EAT TAPAS at 11:45 AM on April 9 [19 favorites]

I gotta say, having heard a lot of Mark Bankston, both in action and in interviews on Knowledge Fight, he seems like a very hardworking lawyer with a deep concern for his clients.
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:46 AM on April 9 [13 favorites]

This Spiro fellow does not give an impression of competence.

There's a point in the deposition where Bankston basically says "I would have thought a lawyer from one of the premier white shoe firms would meet the bar of competence set by Alex Jones' bargain bin counsel - and yet, here we are."
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:47 AM on April 9 [44 favorites]

For someone who is big on Texas, you'd think Musk would actually hire an attorney that's admitted to practice in that state.
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 11:49 AM on April 9 [13 favorites]

I gotta say, having heard a lot of Mark Bankston, both in action and in interviews on Knowledge Fight, he seems like a very hardworking lawyer with a deep concern for his clients.

He's definitely no L. Lin Wood (who was opposing counsel in the last defamation case Musk faced), that's for sure.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:49 AM on April 9 [3 favorites]

Quinn Emanuel isn't a white-shoe law firm, and it didn't train Spiro (who started out in the Manhattan DA's office). Sometimes, when it comes to matters like being properly paranoid about details like whether there's a PO or whether you need to get admitted pro hac before taking a depo, BigLaw training, or the absence thereof, really tells.
posted by praemunire at 11:52 AM on April 9 [9 favorites]

Musk (remarkably) still has a ways to go.

In terms of the pure number of divorces, maybe, but if we're talking about acting out the stereotypically petulant, desperate neediness of the recently-divorced-man archetype, his commitment to the bit is peerless.
posted by mhoye at 11:54 AM on April 9 [45 favorites]

I would like to salute Elon Musk for his incredible and ongoing service to the political cause of billionaire eradication via redistributive taxation.
posted by srboisvert at 11:57 AM on April 9 [25 favorites]

“This is your brain
relatability.
This is your brain
relatability on drugs heroin
mega-billions
Any questions?”

ftfy
posted by otherchaz at 12:05 PM on April 9 [1 favorite]

The sanction filed against Spiro is...quite detailed. (It's also where the spoliation claim comes from.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:08 PM on April 9 [14 favorites]

This deposition is wild. I might be falling in love with Bankston. "Next time I'd appreciate it if you showed up in a deposition with a Texas lawyer who had an understanding of Texas law..." ahahahahaha.
posted by joannemerriam at 12:11 PM on April 9 [25 favorites]

ftfy

You didn't fix anything, you misunderstood a reference to Musk's documented penchant for drugs like ketamine.
posted by Dark Messiah at 12:19 PM on April 9 [10 favorites]

I am always utterly boggled at how (some) wealthy people fail to invest what even at its most expensive could only be a pittance of their vast fortunes in good legal talent.
posted by AdamCSnider at 12:20 PM on April 9 [11 favorites]

But will good legal talent even want them? That's the problem Trump has found himself in. Good legal talent can bilk other wealthy people with half the trouble that these idiot failsons get up to.
posted by amanda at 12:29 PM on April 9 [16 favorites]

wealthy people fail to invest what even at its most expensive could only be a pittance of their vast fortunes in good legal talent

He's spending plenty, he just picked who to spend on based on extremely crude measures of butt-kissing instead of anything smarter. There are good lawyers at Quinn who would know better than to do *gestures* all of this blatantly obvious stuff.

It is kind of funny to read the "Spiro has despoiled the pure atmosphere of the Texas deposition!" rhetoric, though, as Texas used to be notorious for depositions like this.
posted by praemunire at 12:31 PM on April 9 [11 favorites]

"You understand that there's a piece of paper on which there's a lawsuit written."

And Musk just has to keep trying to get in his little "well really you're the ambulance-chasing money-grubbing lawyer persecuting me" bullshit in. "Technically," he says. Sheesh.
posted by Saxon Kane at 12:41 PM on April 9 [5 favorites]

I apologize, but this did give me the impetus to look up who truly had the record for being The Most Divorced Man In The World and Musk (remarkably) still has a ways to go.

Wow, that guy sounds like he left a trail of burned bridges in his wake: None of the 28 women he legally married, and only one of his approximately 19 children, attended the funeral service
posted by Dip Flash at 12:42 PM on April 9 [15 favorites]

Trump can't get good legal counsel because he's got a history of non payment. Musk probably could, but you've got to be willing to listen to your experts. Not one of his strong suits.
posted by evilDoug at 12:50 PM on April 9 [9 favorites]

DocumentCloud PDF link to the deposition, for those without the patience for Scribd.
posted by 1xdevnet at 12:55 PM on April 9 [19 favorites]

And geez, that deposition is really something:

MR SPIRO: Do you give these lectures in all your depositions?

MR BANKSTON: Yes I do and you can watch them.

It must have been amazing to see in person.
posted by Dip Flash at 12:55 PM on April 9 [24 favorites]

but you've got to be willing to listen to your experts. Not one of his strong suits.

Hiring subservient toadies as your legal counsel only seems like a good idea, but it's remarkably attractive to certain people.
posted by tommasz at 12:56 PM on April 9 [6 favorites]

SBF also disregarded a lot of attorney advice, it appears. How many more of these tech failsons think they're Too Tech To Be Subject To Law?

Zuck is a garbage human on every level, for example, but he does seem to listen to his lawyers!
posted by humbug at 12:57 PM on April 9 [9 favorites]

I apologize, but this did give me the impetus to look up who truly had the record for being The Most Divorced Man In The World and Musk (remarkably) still has a ways to go.

Whoa, one of that guy's wives was (very briefly) Bonny Lee Bakley, who was later married to Robert Blake (Baretta, the mystery man from Lynch's Lost Highway), and who was murdered in 2001 in unclear circumstances, for which murder Blake was acquitted in criminal court, but then found liable for her wrongful death in civil court. Small and weird world.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 1:04 PM on April 9 [11 favorites]

…Musk's documented penchant for drugs like ketamine

I would love it if Musk's use of an (apparently legitimately needed) medication not continually be brought into focus alongside his actual misdeeds.
posted by WaylandSmith at 1:28 PM on April 9 [13 favorites]

Speaking of Spiro and the NYC government, he's been tapped to defend NYC Mayor Eric Adams on a sexual assault lawsuit, apparently at a discount. Wonder if they're rethinking things after that deposition came out.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:30 PM on April 9 [4 favorites]

Sometimes, when it comes to matters like being properly paranoid about details like whether there's a PO or whether you need to get admitted pro hac before taking a depo, BigLaw training, or the absence thereof, really tells.

Hey now, let's not get all BigLaw vs public interest in here, this is clearly an 'Arrogance of the Manhattan Prosecutor's Office Takes Another Casualty'.
posted by corb at 1:33 PM on April 9 [5 favorites]

(apparently legitimately needed) medication

Citation needed.

It’s relevant because Musk himself is super obnoxious about his drug use and vocally and explicitly ties it in to his other bad behavior.
posted by eviemath at 1:37 PM on April 9 [29 favorites]

Ketamine is known to have valuable qualities that can benefit humanity.

Unlike Elon Musk.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:43 PM on April 9 [34 favorites]

Musk's documented penchant for drugs like ketamine

Racist wing-nuttery is not among the listed side effects of ketamine. Musk gives drugs a bad name, not the other way round.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 1:49 PM on April 9 [35 favorites]

said it before and will say it again: mr. musk is a waste of perfectly good ketamine
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 1:49 PM on April 9 [49 favorites]

There's one point in the deposition where Musk just starts talking, and Bankston is like wait I haven't asked a question, and Spiro insists that he let Musk talk despite him not actually responding to a question that had been asked. It's astonishing.
posted by joannemerriam at 1:54 PM on April 9 [25 favorites]

"MR. SPIRO: Okay. Okay. You're just giving speeches that nobody's listening to but you. You're just doing them for yourself.

MR. BANKSTON: Oh, they're for the record. Mr. Spiro, they're for the Court to listen to."

Is it improper for me to send this guy a fan email asking for a friend.
posted by corb at 1:58 PM on April 9 [64 favorites]

Reading Musk's part of the transcript, it reminds me a lot of some engineering students I knew back in the day who were of above-average intelligence in specific things like math, or where at least knowledageable about them, but who lacked a more general kind of intelligence or knowledge in matters that were outside of their specific worldview. They, like Musk here, tended to react to questions about matters they didn't know about with what they felt where 'clever' gotchas, as if they expected people to say "Zounds, you have defeated me with your wordplay!"
Spoiler: this always failed, as it seems to have failed Musk here.
I suspect Musk has the same issue we're seeing with LLMs: he's superficially competent at certain tasks but fails at a more general intelligence because he lacks a broader range of knowledge as well as an internal framework to assess it.
posted by signal at 1:58 PM on April 9 [27 favorites]

Note to self: Bone up on Rule 199.5 of the Texas Rules and pray to never cross Mr. Bankston.
posted by whuppy at 2:04 PM on April 9 [17 favorites]

I apologize, but this did give me the impetus to look up who truly had the record for being The Most Divorced Man In The World...

And what a hunk of whale hurl he is.
posted by y2karl at 2:05 PM on April 9 [3 favorites]

Musk has been known to use ketamine recreationally, among other drugs.
posted by BungaDunga at 2:07 PM on April 9 [3 favorites]

lacked a more general kind of intelligence or knowledge in matters that were outside of their specific worldview.

I feel that it is very much 'engineer's disease', or at the least, the overly-literal viewpoint that some people seem to have where language and law are somehow considered to be fixed rulesets where if you find the right words you can cast that magic spell to get you out of trouble. "Ah ha! I have found a loophole in how words can be interpreted, and thus your rules do not apply."
posted by 1xdevnet at 2:11 PM on April 9 [13 favorites]

→ DocumentCloud PDF link to the deposition

Can I just say that the cover page of that report has some unnecessarily pretty guilloché work? Really nice.

Shame about the shitbox it's concerning, though
posted by scruss at 2:15 PM on April 9 [2 favorites]

If you thought the cover page was nice you should have seen page 2, before the index kicked in. The intricacy of the individual participants' hedcuts? Sublime. You wouldn't see that kind of work in the WSJ, not these days.
posted by 1xdevnet at 2:22 PM on April 9 [2 favorites]

BigLaw vs public interest

No offense intended! Having done both, PI doesn't have the time to obsess about details the way Biglaw does. Nothing to do with ability: a simple function of having eight lawyers working 80 hours a week for one or two clients vs. one working 60 hours a week for twenty. If you want someone to be paranoid enough about some point of the local rules to jump out of bed in a cold sweat at 2 a.m. the day before you make an appearance to double-check them, you want a strung-out junior associate at Sullivan & Cromwell or similar.

'Arrogance of the Manhattan Prosecutor's Office Takes Another Casualty'

Working for the prosecuting authority on the criminal side (even sometimes on the civil) sure can make you lazy and careless. You get away with too much, and, if you don't watch it, it'll eat away at your game. Manhattan DA -> your own firm -> Quinn is a bad sequence for learning what the outer limits of your professional conduct can, much less should, be. Especially if your job at Quinn depends on your having a clown client who likes watching other people beclown themselves.
posted by praemunire at 2:22 PM on April 9 [7 favorites]

For someone who is big on Texas, you'd think Musk would actually hire an attorney that's admitted to practice in that state.

Howdy pardner, I’m the sheriff of fail.
posted by Artw at 2:25 PM on April 9 [4 favorites]

I am against ascribing engineers disease to someone who has never been an engineer. He’s just a rich know-it-all asshole who is dumb as bricks.
posted by Artw at 2:27 PM on April 9 [69 favorites]

needs more gummy worms

Quinn is a fairly elite firm by LA standards, whether or not it's 'white shoe.'
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:29 PM on April 9 [3 favorites]

Howdy pardner, I’m the sheriff of fail.

I stand by my assessment of "Wish.com Lee Van Cleef".

And the thing is, Musk does have Texas counsel - they did the filing on the discovery order. I just imagine they thought Bankston was a legal lightweight like Wood, and found out the hard way that he's not.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:36 PM on April 9 [3 favorites]

> I am against ascribing engineers disease to someone who has never been an engineer. He’s just a rich know-it-all asshole who is dumb as bricks.

Pretty sure Melon Husk is currently dumber than most bricks.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 2:37 PM on April 9 [6 favorites]

I had a feeling this would pop up here. If you listened to enough Knowledge Fight you don't need video. You would know exactly how Bankston would sound at different points. And I'm pretty sure Elon and Alex Jones had already started interacting with each other before this deposition happened. You'd think Alex would have at least warned him. It wasn't a secret that Mark was working on this case, he announced it on X.
posted by LostInUbe at 2:57 PM on April 9 [5 favorites]

People are attacked all the time in the media, online media, social media, but it is rare that that actually has a meaningful negative impact on their life.

Wow. I'm pretty sure Musk doesn't actually believe this, or at least, he's inclined to believe it or not as the needs of the moment suit his ego. He sure felt like saying it here though.
posted by traveler_ at 3:05 PM on April 9 [3 favorites]

A. -- this is just a kitten with a tin foil hat.
posted by bendy at 3:12 PM on April 9 [1 favorite]

Engineer’s Disease: it’s not just for Engineers anymore!

I mean, I’ve been treated for tennis elbow; you think I would have gotten to play some tennis….
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:15 PM on April 9 [11 favorites]

“Mr Musk, there’s not a question posed to you right now.” should be a recurring quote.
posted by supercres at 3:30 PM on April 9 [5 favorites]

I think Trump, Alex and Elon are of the "all lawyers are opportunistic ambulance chasers, including my own" school which is why they are disinclined to listen to them or even care that they have specialties and are not one size fits all.
posted by LostInUbe at 3:37 PM on April 9 [8 favorites]

A. "I mean, it may make sense --"
    MR. BANKSTON: "Mr. Musk, this is a Wendy's deposition."
    MR. SPIRO: "Objection; non-responsive."
    MR. BANKSTON: "Oh now you remember rule 199.5."
posted by 1xdevnet at 3:40 PM on April 9 [12 favorites]

That transcript is hard to read. I would have loved to watch that whole shitshow unfold, though. Better than anything on Netflix.
posted by dg at 4:04 PM on April 9 [1 favorite]

Musk seems to have made the mistake of hiring council who he doesn’t want to listen to, is unqualified, or worse simply does what he says without regard for the actual law, the consequences, to pending litigation, or their own law license.
posted by interogative mood at 4:09 PM on April 9 [3 favorites]

I'd be curious to see if Elon does pay his lawyers since I heard he stopped paying rent on Twitter HQ, stiffed people of their promised severance, etc.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:26 PM on April 9 [6 favorites]

Lawyers at this level customarily get retainers, so they are effectively paid in advance (albeit in tranches). Another, and frankly probably the most important, reason Trump has trouble finding good counsel. It's one thing to be fascist, it's quite another to default on payments!
posted by praemunire at 5:05 PM on April 9 [7 favorites]

As much as I dislike Musk and like Bankston, Spiro's performance here wasn't really that bad. Not getting the pro hac admission sorted ahead of time is a bad look; and so is not knowing the Texas shorthand—but the procedure isn't very different than other jurisdictions, what Spiro did is typical defense counsel stuff, and to a certain extent what Musk is paying for.

Rule 199.5 notwithstanding, Texas depositions can famously get much friskier.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:38 PM on April 9 [4 favorites]

I worked as a legal secretary for Huge Law Firm back before and during grad school and I can confidently say I never read a deposition that was remotely as hilarious as that. Generally the people being deposed have accepted thorough coaching beforehand and the attorneys on both sides are playing very effective rules games so figuring out the useful information involves searching for the needle in the haystack. This was a mad mess all around, with Musk’s attorney trying to object and Musk ignoring him while Bankston scores a number of well prepared points. And then Musk just up and leaves bfore the signing instructions.
posted by Peach at 5:57 PM on April 9 [9 favorites]

remotely as hilarious as that

ho ho ho, allow me:

Alex Jones, Daria Karpova, Rob Dew and Brittany Paz day 1, day 2 deposed by Bankston; and Owen Shroyer ('Cuck Destroyer') deposed and destroyed by Bill Ogden.

(From the Infowars/Sandy Hook case.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:10 PM on April 9 [7 favorites]

Wild, just wild.
posted by Wretch729 at 6:25 PM on April 9

I have never read a deposition before. I enjoyed this more than I do the entire collected works of Jane Austen.
This is very high praise coming from me.
posted by hilaryjade at 6:43 PM on April 9 [21 favorites]

Are depositions in the public domain? Could someone collect the best ones into a coffee-table book and publish Wonderful Depositions of Terrible Men?
posted by nobody at 7:28 PM on April 9 [28 favorites]

Not getting the pro hac admission sorted ahead of time is a bad look;

Not knowing there was no protective order in place before your client, one of the richest men in the world, is deposed, is a world-class fumble.

He appears to have drafted and signed a motion without being admitted, too, which, if true, is very hard not to consider the unauthorized practice of the law in the jurisdiction. Complete unforced error that might get him kicked off the case.

And I read a big chunk of the deposition--plaintiff's counsel choosing to keep going was a strategic decision. Texas seems to have a rule against speaking objections very similar to New York's. I probably would've called chambers at lunch and had the recorder read back some of those crazy speaking objections.

Being nonresponsive in a deposition is usually not all that hard if you're well-prepped as a witness. You don't need the unprofessional theatrics from counsel.
posted by praemunire at 7:45 PM on April 9 [5 favorites]

"Ah ha! I have found a loophole in how words can be interpreted, and thus your rules do not apply."

This describes a lot of people with high IQs who are completely clueless.

And it also describes sovereign citizens.
posted by AlSweigart at 8:08 PM on April 9 [17 favorites]

I think it's possible that our Genius-level IQ John Galt-type Captain of Industry doesn't really feel the need to prepare for a deposition.
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 8:12 PM on April 9 [9 favorites]

In case folks haven't seen it, Spiro had a New Yorker profile written about him last year, and let's just say, there are some red flags.

Spiro sometimes likens what he does in those openings and closings to making a painting. The experience can be so intense that afterward, he told me, he can’t always remember what he did with his brush. “There’s a flow to it,” he said. “I’m trying to tell a compelling, interwoven story. And there are hints I’m dropping throughout cases, for the jury.” Michael Lifrak, a Quinn Emanuel partner whom Spiro refers to as his lieutenant, notes that those arguments stem from considerable front-end labor. Spiro “will look at every document in the case,” he said. “I have never seen a first-chair trial lawyer do that, and I’ve been doing this for more than twenty years. He dives into the details. And that’s probably one of the reasons that clients like him.” Another reason clients like Spiro is that, by his own account, he’s won every case he’s brought to trial in a decade of private practice.

“I have a photographic memory, basically—that’s my special secret sauce,” Spiro told me. “That and my ability to sleep three and a half hours a day and process information quickly. If it weren’t for those things, I would have zero chance of survival.” He’s also shrewd in his choice of jurors. He looks for people whom he could “take out for a cup of coffee and convince of my point of view” and those who might be inclined to like him—for instance, he believes that Black Americans may be particularly aware of his representation of professional basketball players in police-brutality cases and of his connections to Jay-Z and other hip-hop artists. In the courtroom, an environment Spiro describes as “me in my swimming pool,” he often forgoes slick PowerPoint presentations, scribbling on poster boards instead. He sometimes puts witnesses on the stand with minimal preparation, in the belief that their testimony will seem more authentic.

There's a whole tag about him on Above the Law, including this article with the title "Is Elon Musk About to Get Quinn Emanuel Sanctioned?" featuring bonus quotes of the bit in the sanctions motion about how Musk just happened to delete his burner Twitter account on the very day that the court ordered that discovery would, in fact, go forward.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:38 PM on April 9 [8 favorites]

I'm reading a lot of comments that seem to think Alex Spiro is a fool or incompetent. He got Musk off after Musk defamed the cave diver in the Thai rescue which is a pretty gross miscarriage of justice. He is an effective bastard with a lot of high profile clients. He's a Hollywood sharpshooter not a white shoe drone. Don't underestimate him like everyone underestimated Trump.
posted by Pembquist at 8:46 PM on April 9 [6 favorites]

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Excuse me. Mr. Musk just logged off or got kicked off or something. He's no longer on the Zoom.
MR. BANKSTON: Do you want to take a break real quick and see if we can get him back on?
MR. SPIRO: Yeah, Mark. That's fine.
MR. BANKSTON: I was going to take a break in an hour but I figured we can just take a break right now if you want to do that. Do you want to take 20 minutes?
MR. SPIRO: No. I mean, I don't think we need 20 minutes, Mark. I mean, we're almost done. 
MR. BANKSTON: The problem is, I'm not trying to be difficult here. I'm really not. The water main broke in our building today so to go use the restroom, I have to walk down the street.
MR. SPIRO: Well, okay. That's a real thing. We'll be back in 10. Hopefully you're back in 10. If you are back in 13, no one's going to be alarmed, but I'm going to try to make it a 10 minute break.
MR. BANKSTON: I understand. You don't need to keep communicating your feelings on the ridiculousness of the endeavor I'm currently engaged in.
MR. SPIRO: Well, it's also a short deposition so whether even needing a break is - I don't know it's necessary but okay, let's do it. 10 minutes.
MR. BANKSTON: Okay.
MR. SPIRO: Thanks. 
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record at 1:56p.m.
(OFF RECORD)
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're back on the record at 2:14pm.

This is cinema.
posted by doift at 9:11 PM on April 9 [9 favorites]

Metafilter: you don't need to keep communicating your feelings on the ridiculousness of the endeavor I'm currently engaged in
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 10:12 PM on April 9 [41 favorites]

He got Musk off after Musk defamed the cave diver in the Thai rescue which is a pretty gross miscarriage of justice.

A lot of people think plaintiff's counsel in that case didn't do a great job.

Musk doesn't even use him for the really important cases. Twitter (the merger case) was Skadden, Tornetta (the compensation case) was Cravath. He's, like, the lawyer for when Musk wants to troll.
posted by praemunire at 10:16 PM on April 9 [10 favorites]

The number of times Spiro kicks off an argument by saying his client, Musk, is not going to answer some question and then ends that argument wanting his client to answer that question is very amusing. Bankston seems to have a real "Duck Season! Wabbit Season!" vibe going on with Spiro.
posted by Avelwood at 10:23 PM on April 9 [13 favorites]

God, this is a fun read. I smirked every time Bankston referred to the platform as Twitter.
posted by ZaphodB at 10:32 PM on April 9 [10 favorites]

He is an effective bastard with a lot of high profile clients.

Let's be blunt - Spiro is a fixer - a for rent Tom Hagen. It's worth remembering that right after Musk's acquisition of Twitter, Spiro was the person going around trying to get Twitter employees to assume personal liability over Twitter's violations of consent decrees and other legal requirements, so that when his client started breaking things it would be the employees holding the legal bag.

And I have no doubt he's "effective" - fixers usually are, because their job is less about representing their client and more about Making Their Problems Go Away. And we can see this in this deposition as it's pretty clear that his goal was twofold - one, make the deposition a shitshow where Musk sticks his foot in his mouth as little as possible; and two, legally tie up the deposition (which is nominally part of the trial's public record) so that it doesn't become an embarrassment (or worse) for his client.

The problem for Spiro, however, is that this time he was facing Mark Bankston - a lawyer who's been forged in the crucible of having to deal with the metric fuckton of Alex Jones' legal bullshit, which makes him the exact worst match up for Spiro as he's learned how to deal with the sort of bullshit that Musk's fixer was planning on using. It's clear from the transcript that Bankston had a gameplan for dealing with both Musk and Spiro - and I have a strong suspicion that he knew going in about the deletion of the "@ermnmusk" account, which is why he made sure to get Musk on the record as the owner to set up the charge of spoliation. And it's clear that Spiro's arrogance blinded him to how - as we saw in the Jones trial - Bankston was expertly leading along the garden path, most likely because he was contemptuous about being made to deal with a case that was frivolous in his opinion.

Which is why he needs to be smacked upside the head with sanctions, because that's the only language he will understand. And if it is the case that he suborned spoliation of evidence, then part of those sanctions should be telling him, if temporarily, "you don't get to be a lawyer."
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:10 PM on April 9 [26 favorites]

Also regarding Spiro's lack of pro hac vice, there's a serious question there of if the issue is that he didn't get it - or if he couldn't. Because I could see Musk's Texas counsel not wanting to put their professional reputations on the line for Spiro.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:22 PM on April 9 [6 favorites]

Wow. It's too bad Spencer Tracy is dead, I want him to play Mark Bankston in the movie.
posted by chromecow at 1:34 AM on April 10 [9 favorites]

→ He’s just a rich know-it-all asshole

“At this point, I think I know more about manufacturing than anyone currently alive on Earth”
posted by scruss at 5:23 AM on April 10 [2 favorites]

That transcript was weirdly compelling reading, of the car-crash variety. Made me go read the news stories about the lawsuit, which I'd previously ignored. It was fascinating to see Bankston doggedly collecting facts and building his case despite the disruption and obfuscation he faced. Like a patient kid building a LEGO house while some petulant toddlers try to tear it down.

I agree with Pembquist that Spiro doesn't seem a total screwup, and maybe his schtick might succeed with lesser legal opponents... but it's not working with Bankston.

I'm most stuck on the question that, given the facts of the case, why Musk didn't back down and issue a retraction right away, and/or settle right away? What kind of hubris must it take to get busted for shit-talking on Xitter, and choose to fight instead... The $$$ kind, I guess. Even at this late stage, he could still avoid a lot of hassle and cost by just settling and issuing a retraction. I would chew my own leg off rather than be on the receiving end of a lawsuit waged by masters like Bankston.
posted by Artful Codger at 7:57 AM on April 10 [1 favorite]

I'm most stuck on the question that, given the facts of the case, why Musk didn't back down and issue a retraction right away, and/or settle right away?

Because in his (and Spiro's) mind, this is a frivolous case being filed by an ambulance chaser - and neither was shy in voicing that opinion in the deposition. You had Musk state - under oath - that his position is that a million views is meaningless, and that Brody (who, let me remind you, had to leave his home along with his family for their safety as part of the fallout from Musk's actions) didn't suffer "meaningful harm".

I also think that arrogance and contempt is going to be their undoing, as I get the feeling that Bankston's main goal was to establish Musk's sock puppet ownership, and in doing so now has the pieces to make a substantiated claim of spoliation against Musk and Spiro. And he was helped by their contempt blinding the men to what was happening.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:27 AM on April 10 [14 favorites]

I'm reading a lot of comments that seem to think Alex Spiro is a fool or incompetent. He got Musk off after Musk defamed the cave diver in the Thai rescue which is a pretty gross miscarriage of justice.

The cave diver's lawyer was, somewhat unbelievably, L Lin Wood.
posted by BungaDunga at 8:51 AM on April 10 [4 favorites]

> Avelwood: "The number of times Spiro kicks off an argument by saying his client, Musk, is not going to answer some question and then ends that argument wanting his client to answer that question is very amusing."

I just started reading it and, yeah, this is literally what happens immediately out of the gate from the first question. From the transcript:

Q: Hi, Mr. Musk. Can you hear me okay?
A: I can.
Q: Okay. Do you think you did anything wrong to Ben Brody?
MR. SPIRO: Okay. This isn't a question you're allowed to ask by the Court, so we're not going to do this, Mark, or this deposition is going to be over before it starts.

[skipping over what appears to be multiple minutes of back-and-forth bickering]

MR. BANKSTON: Are you instructing him not to answer?
MR. SPIRO: You can try to ask the question and I'll listen to it again.
MR. BANKSTON: Are you going to instruct him not to answer?
MR. SPIRO: I don't know. I'll hear the question and tell you.
MR. BANKSTON: Okay. Mr. Musk, do you think you did anything wrong to Ben Brody?
MR. SPIRO: Did anything wrong to Ben Brody? Okay. You can ask that question.

The eagle-eyed reader will note that the question that Spiro agreed should be answered is the exact same question that he claimed wasn't allowed to be asked by the Court. And this was, again, literally the first question posed by Bankston.
posted by mhum at 10:14 AM on April 10 [9 favorites]

“I have a photographic memory, basically—that’s my special secret sauce,” Spiro told me. “That and my ability to sleep three and a half hours a day and process information quickly.”

(Taken from up thread)
posted by UN at 12:59 PM on April 10 [2 favorites]

“Mr Musk, there’s not a question posed to you right now.” should be a

bot that answers all his tweets this way as the first response.
posted by joannemerriam at 3:56 PM on April 10 [19 favorites]

The depressing thing is that as we’ve seen in Trump’s case the verdict in these cases is seldom enough to meaningful deter the super rich. Even if in 10 years Musk has to pay a few million in a judgement — it is just loose change to him. Even Alex Jones is still on the air spouting his nonsense.
posted by interogative mood at 4:15 PM on April 10 [3 favorites]

And this was, again, literally the first question posed by Bankston.

At the risk of belaboring what should be obvious from reading the transcript, it was a short deposition and much of the point of Spiro's obstruction was to waste time.

As far as I know most jurisdictions no longer permit speaking objections, even if they haven't basically adopted Federal standards. (In California, which does have some procedural and evidentiary differences, it's often couched in argument about the proper scope of deposition questioning.)

Yet it's nonetheless commonplace, and it's always a calculation whether to bother the judge about it midstream (risking their undifferentiated ire) or circle back at the end, ask again and make a record as Bankston did here (which is what is most commonly done).
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:24 PM on April 10 [3 favorites]

But, if you're on the other side...

(people seem interested in the nuts and bolts, so this is just to satisfy that curiosity. I hope Elon gets rinsed.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:42 PM on April 10 [1 favorite]

Bankston’s proud mother blogs at https://juanitajean.com/ ; though unfortunately not much about running cases, for obvious reasons. There were a few nice posts just past the Sandy Hook survivors defamation trial.
posted by LanTao at 12:38 AM on April 11 [1 favorite]

(Reminder that urls aren’t automatically turned into links, but can easily be made linkable (thus contributing to site accessibility) by using the “link” button in the quick-access edit buttons immediately below the comment input window. (The link button is the one on the far right of the row of buttons just under the comment box.) Linking urls properly ourselves saves mod time for actual site moderation, too!)
posted by eviemath at 4:41 AM on April 11 [2 favorites]

it's always a calculation whether to bother the judge about it midstream (risking their undifferentiated ire) or circle back at the end, ask again and make a record as Bankston did here (which is what is most commonly done)

Yep. I'm sure there was furious discussion at breaks, but it seems like Bankston decided he was getting enough that it was okay to settle for that plus going for the sanctions motion (with the lack of pro hac tilting him in that direction).

Of course, Bankston is a white man. I can only imagine how Spiro would have conducted himself if opposing counsel had been a woman, or Black, or, God forbid, both. Another way in which the profession quietly penalizes non-white non-men--white boys are always going to be able to work more aggressively a system with informal norms that requires a deliberate invocation of an enforcer.
posted by praemunire at 7:58 AM on April 11 [4 favorites]

Rule 199.5 notwithstanding, Texas depositions can famously get much friskier.

This famous Joe Jamail deposition occurred before the enactment of rule 199.5, and was probably considered during the process of creating it.
posted by grouse at 9:27 AM on April 11 [2 favorites]

Even Alex Jones is still on the air spouting his nonsense.

In Jones’ case, his bankruptcy trial had to be concluded. Given the number of times he’s had to leave the studio to attend related hearings, I don’t think it’s going well. I suspect that the courts won’t force Jones off the air entirely (they want him to be able to pay his judgements), but it’s clear his clumsy attempts to launch new shows that would somehow not be “his” for judgement purposes have failed. He’s getting his.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:47 AM on April 11 [2 favorites]

Joe Jamail deposition occurred before the enactment of rule 199.5

You're right — the admonitions in there must have been based on the former rule.
(I didn't check the notes to see if the articles referenced for Texas' 'rambo litigation' reputation discuss the Jamail depo.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:43 AM on April 11 [1 favorite]

Wow... thank you so much, snuffleupagus! Depositions are my new favorite thing for making mindless slog more fun. They're perfect because they're excellent salacious gawk-fodder but they're also slow and repetitive and they have a pleasing kind of rhythm. ("I'm going to hand you this. [beat] I've marked it Exhibit A. [beat] Do you see section sevenhundredthree subsection A-12 paragraph 4? [beat] Good. [beat] Can you please read from that paragraph beginning with the headline that says 'lizard woman laid eggs in Obama's brainstem?'") So if your work tends to become intermittently less mindless and you have to turn off your ears and focus for a few moments over and over throughout the day, it's okay; you don't really need to rewind to get the gist.

Paz depo. Day two. About 1:57 or so. Chortlefest.
posted by Don Pepino at 9:25 AM on April 12 [3 favorites]

Mark and co are a bit busy these days (twitter link):
Today, my co-counsel Greg Adler and I filed suit against Fox, Newsmax, Univision, Timcast, Steven Crowder, Owen Shroyer, Simon Ateba, and Hollywood Unlocked for falsely portraying our innocent client as a neo-Nazi mass shooter.
posted by LostInUbe at 4:34 AM on April 13 [1 favorite]

So, you remember how Musk's fixer Spiro filed a motion to dismiss in the Texas courts while neither being a member of the Texas bar or under pro hac vice with the same? And that this is practicing law without a license - quite the nono for a Quinn Emanuel partner who claims to have a photographic memory?

Well, Musk's legal team would like you to pretend that didn't happen, with his Texas counsel filing a motion that basically boils down to "my bad, just pretend that it was my signature on the motion from the get-go."

It's also worth noting that said lawyer is a bit of a ghoul, as he was Trump’s point man on stealing the children of immigrants. Which really says it all about the sort of people Musk hires.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:14 PM on April 16 [7 favorites]

And now Spiro is whining about how unfair it is that he be held accountable to the standards of his profession, arguing that the sanctions be dropped and Bankston fined.

He...does realize that the transcript is in the wild, right?
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:09 PM on April 19 [4 favorites]

When you have the facts, pound the facts. When you have the law, pound the law. When you have neither, pound the table.

Still, it's true that Bankston knew Spiro wasn't admitted in TX at the time the depo was convened, and he went forward with it anyway. So there's at least the shade of an argument for waiver, as Bankston could have objected to his appearance as counsel when he entered it, adjourned the depo and made a motion to compel another session at Musk's expense at that point.

As with not adjourning it over coaching and obstruction via speaking objections, it's a calculation as to whether that's to the client's ultimate advantage. I haven't followed the case closely, but that it's a two hour depo suggests that there may have already been a tussle over its scope; and you probably don't want to abandon a session you had to arm-twist to get to in the first place over what are ultimately procedural niceties, if relatively fundamental ones. And the stuff Spiro was doing would have been objectionable under the rules of the jurisdictions he is admitted in.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:17 AM on April 20 [1 favorite]

To be fair, Bankston did get a lot out of the deposition - he got Musk to admit to most of the elements of the case, and he got him to admit under oath that he owned a certain sock puppet account that Bankston knows was deleted right around the discovery order, so he has the pieces for a claim of spoliation. And as you point out, Bankston had to fight to get the deposition in the first place.

It's just that Spiro's motion has real "begging for leniency on account of being an orphan while on trial for murdering your parents" energy, and feels like the sort of work from someone who doesn't get told "no" often.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:38 AM on April 20 [6 favorites]