Sheep are much cannier than we give them credit for
April 15, 2024 7:27 AM Subscribe
Sheep are much cannier than we give them credit for. These ovine facts may surprise you.
The humble sheep might be considered by some as the perfect embodiment of docility. But they are not mundane mindless mammals — not in the slightest.
Although the ovine equivalent doesn't work as well due to the whole invariant plural noun issue.
Sheep is smart. Sheep are dumb.
posted by The Bellman at 7:55 AM on April 15 [13 favorites]
Sheep is smart. Sheep are dumb.
posted by The Bellman at 7:55 AM on April 15 [13 favorites]
To my great disappointment no one has ever gotten video of a sheep doing a commando roll over a cattle guard. Unfortunately, in the modern world that is a sign of an urban legend. :-(
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:06 AM on April 15 [3 favorites]
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:06 AM on April 15 [3 favorites]
Obligatory: "'E's that most dangerous of animals, the clever sheep."
posted by dannyboybell at 8:29 AM on April 15 [8 favorites]
posted by dannyboybell at 8:29 AM on April 15 [8 favorites]
I once heard this described as "Sheep don't like to make decisions if they can help it, but that's not exactly the same as being stupid."
posted by Tomorrowful at 8:30 AM on April 15 [14 favorites]
posted by Tomorrowful at 8:30 AM on April 15 [14 favorites]
I once had a guy who’d worked with sheep for a while say that sheep aren’t stupid; they seem like it to us because a) they mostly communicate by smell and proximity rather than sight and hearing, which puts us at a disadvantage to understand them and b) sheep do not want to do anything we want them
To do.
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:34 AM on April 15 [8 favorites]
To do.
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:34 AM on April 15 [8 favorites]
They don't miss a trick or ever lose a beat
posted by stevil at 9:21 AM on April 15 [2 favorites]
posted by stevil at 9:21 AM on April 15 [2 favorites]
But the measure of sheep intelligence is perhaps best illustrated by a mystery that hit the English village of Marsden in 2004.
Something was eating the flowers in the village's flowerbeds, and residents simply could not work out who the culprit was, Coulthard says.
There were sheep in the moors around Marsden, but the village was protected by sheep grids, and they were too wide for the sheep to leap over.
The residents finally decided to stay up overnight and watch — and what they saw amazed them.
"Apparently the sheep had learnt to do commando rolls over the sheep grids," Coulthard laughs.
The likeliest scenario was one or two sheep figured out they could lay on their side and roll across, then showed the rest of the flock, she adds.
Heh. I'm from the next valley over from Marsden, and I even lived there for a decade or so. The sheep are an integral part of village life, they're borderline feral and wander freely all over. There were plenty of routes into the village that didn't involve cattle grids, and the sheep explored everywhere thoroughly. Once I saw a fully crewed fire engine and mountain rescue team scrambled to rescue one stuck in the river. You would often find them in your garden at random even if you thought you'd closed the gates, so that "mystery" bit is definitely an exaggeration, you knew what had happened if all your flowers had been munched. Marsden sheep didn't seem any smarter than other sheep, and I've had to disentangle a few from fences on the moors over the years. I never saw them roll over the cattle grids, and when other locals I knew maintain that it happened I was always a bit skeptical. Most of the grids round here have gone now, filled in presumably because the local council can't afford to maintain them, so I imagine that if any sheep had figured it out, they've probably forgotten the trick, and we're unlikely to ever be able to test the myth.
posted by tomsk at 9:31 AM on April 15 [16 favorites]
Something was eating the flowers in the village's flowerbeds, and residents simply could not work out who the culprit was, Coulthard says.
There were sheep in the moors around Marsden, but the village was protected by sheep grids, and they were too wide for the sheep to leap over.
The residents finally decided to stay up overnight and watch — and what they saw amazed them.
"Apparently the sheep had learnt to do commando rolls over the sheep grids," Coulthard laughs.
The likeliest scenario was one or two sheep figured out they could lay on their side and roll across, then showed the rest of the flock, she adds.
Heh. I'm from the next valley over from Marsden, and I even lived there for a decade or so. The sheep are an integral part of village life, they're borderline feral and wander freely all over. There were plenty of routes into the village that didn't involve cattle grids, and the sheep explored everywhere thoroughly. Once I saw a fully crewed fire engine and mountain rescue team scrambled to rescue one stuck in the river. You would often find them in your garden at random even if you thought you'd closed the gates, so that "mystery" bit is definitely an exaggeration, you knew what had happened if all your flowers had been munched. Marsden sheep didn't seem any smarter than other sheep, and I've had to disentangle a few from fences on the moors over the years. I never saw them roll over the cattle grids, and when other locals I knew maintain that it happened I was always a bit skeptical. Most of the grids round here have gone now, filled in presumably because the local council can't afford to maintain them, so I imagine that if any sheep had figured it out, they've probably forgotten the trick, and we're unlikely to ever be able to test the myth.
posted by tomsk at 9:31 AM on April 15 [16 favorites]
(it's a good story though and I can't prove it didn't happen, so don't let me spoil the fun)
posted by tomsk at 9:35 AM on April 15 [4 favorites]
posted by tomsk at 9:35 AM on April 15 [4 favorites]
Came for the Monty Python reference, left satisfied.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:36 AM on April 15 [1 favorite]
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:36 AM on April 15 [1 favorite]
Apologies, tomsk, while I love to have more context to this great sheep heist, I will simply have to accept the myth (moving by night, rolling over the grids not once but twice to cover their tracks and potentially strike another night!) over a more likely truth. This is too great of a story to let go off.
posted by bigendian at 10:04 AM on April 15 [5 favorites]
posted by bigendian at 10:04 AM on April 15 [5 favorites]
This is too great of a story to let go off.
posted by bigendian
I feel this is somehow eponysterical without being able to put my finger on the exact element.
posted by mumimor at 10:17 AM on April 15 [3 favorites]
posted by bigendian
I feel this is somehow eponysterical without being able to put my finger on the exact element.
posted by mumimor at 10:17 AM on April 15 [3 favorites]
To my great disappointment no one has ever gotten video of a sheep doing a commando roll over a cattle guard. Unfortunately, in the modern world that is a sign of an urban legend. :-(
I grew up working with sheep, and though I wouldn't call them clever, I have no problem believing they have individual personalities, life goals, fears, and desires, same as any other animal or person. The are not mindless grass munching automatons.
Every animal loves holes in fences, I swear they have radar for that, that doesn't exactly impress me, but if saw a sheep roll over a cattle guard that would impress me, same as the time I saw a cow jump over a fence.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:30 AM on April 15 [7 favorites]
I grew up working with sheep, and though I wouldn't call them clever, I have no problem believing they have individual personalities, life goals, fears, and desires, same as any other animal or person. The are not mindless grass munching automatons.
Every animal loves holes in fences, I swear they have radar for that, that doesn't exactly impress me, but if saw a sheep roll over a cattle guard that would impress me, same as the time I saw a cow jump over a fence.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:30 AM on April 15 [7 favorites]
There’s a scientific paper I have somewhere that goes something like ‘we wanted to investigate a stupid animal, so we chose sheep. They surprised us by being quite clever actually’
posted by lokta at 4:09 PM on April 15 [1 favorite]
posted by lokta at 4:09 PM on April 15 [1 favorite]
a commando roll over a cattle guard
Now I wouldn't buy into them rolling over a cattle guard, but I wouldn't trust those buggers not to roll under a fence, assuming someone was silly enough to use a split rail or standard 3-4 board fence.
I had a foal that rolled himself accidently out under a board fence away from his mom while scratching an itch. He matured to a small fella--14.1 hands--and was able to replicate it, especially early in the spring when the grass was lush and tempting. He was a pretty smart little guy for a horse, though. (When I put woven wire on the inside of his board fence, he learned to jump it. Grrr!)
I think sheeps might be able to figure it out, but they would certainly then be smarter than the dumb farmer that would put them into a pen not fenced with some type of field wire!
Sheep still wouldn't ever win any Nobel prizes from me. Herders in the ION country* all have multiple stories of sheep running over a cliff together, herding into a box canyon and suffocating some of the flock, rolling on their backs to scratch an itch and then getting high-centered and dying or just getting stuck in a fence and not being able to back out.
I love me some cute little lambies. Especially with mint. Don't like big sheep. Don't like mutton. Especially don't like working with sheep in the summer, because you haven't seen ticks until you've seen ticks on sheep coming in off the Idaho rangelands. *shudder*
*ION
Idaho/Oregon/Nevada = Great Basin Desert Range, home of sheepmen and buckaroos
posted by BlueHorse at 10:04 PM on April 15 [2 favorites]
Now I wouldn't buy into them rolling over a cattle guard, but I wouldn't trust those buggers not to roll under a fence, assuming someone was silly enough to use a split rail or standard 3-4 board fence.
I had a foal that rolled himself accidently out under a board fence away from his mom while scratching an itch. He matured to a small fella--14.1 hands--and was able to replicate it, especially early in the spring when the grass was lush and tempting. He was a pretty smart little guy for a horse, though. (When I put woven wire on the inside of his board fence, he learned to jump it. Grrr!)
I think sheeps might be able to figure it out, but they would certainly then be smarter than the dumb farmer that would put them into a pen not fenced with some type of field wire!
Sheep still wouldn't ever win any Nobel prizes from me. Herders in the ION country* all have multiple stories of sheep running over a cliff together, herding into a box canyon and suffocating some of the flock, rolling on their backs to scratch an itch and then getting high-centered and dying or just getting stuck in a fence and not being able to back out.
I love me some cute little lambies. Especially with mint. Don't like big sheep. Don't like mutton. Especially don't like working with sheep in the summer, because you haven't seen ticks until you've seen ticks on sheep coming in off the Idaho rangelands. *shudder*
*ION
Idaho/Oregon/Nevada = Great Basin Desert Range, home of sheepmen and buckaroos
posted by BlueHorse at 10:04 PM on April 15 [2 favorites]
I read a book by a hill farmer who said that in his experience sheep were remarkably imaginative and resourceful about finding ways to kill themselves.
posted by Phanx at 10:11 PM on April 15 [2 favorites]
posted by Phanx at 10:11 PM on April 15 [2 favorites]
I just finished reading A Short History of the World According to Sheep by Sally Coulthard, which was extensively mined for the ABC article. One bit of medieval advice ABC editors left on the cutting room floor can also be found at Futility Closet:
It profiteth the lord to have discreet shepherds, watchful and kindly, so that the sheep be not tormented by their wrath, but crop their pasture in peace and joyfulness; for it is a token of the shepherd’s kindness if the sheep be not scattered abroad but browse around him in company. Let him provide himself with a good barkable dog and lie nightly with his sheep.
Those medieval shepherds were not being encouraged to by-pass Leviticus 18v23. It's not about the snuggles so much as being aware of rustlers and wolves.
posted by BobTheScientist at 11:11 PM on April 15 [3 favorites]
It profiteth the lord to have discreet shepherds, watchful and kindly, so that the sheep be not tormented by their wrath, but crop their pasture in peace and joyfulness; for it is a token of the shepherd’s kindness if the sheep be not scattered abroad but browse around him in company. Let him provide himself with a good barkable dog and lie nightly with his sheep.
Those medieval shepherds were not being encouraged to by-pass Leviticus 18v23. It's not about the snuggles so much as being aware of rustlers and wolves.
posted by BobTheScientist at 11:11 PM on April 15 [3 favorites]
The_Vegetables: cows and bison look way too damn big and ungainly to jump as high as they in fact can!
Way back when, i lived for several years in Memphis, TN. Just outside the city there is a park area called Shelby Farms, and one of the things it contains is a herd of bison—they were apparently a gift from someone or other, many years ago, and the herd has been maintained.
The thing is, they keep them behind a four-foot fence, and bison can clear about eight feet if they're sufficiently motivated. Every time i drove by Shelby Farms (and it was on my way to work, so that was a lot), i would contemplate the fact that the only thing actually keeping those bison there is that they have no compelling reason to be anywhere else.
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:22 PM on April 15 [3 favorites]
Way back when, i lived for several years in Memphis, TN. Just outside the city there is a park area called Shelby Farms, and one of the things it contains is a herd of bison—they were apparently a gift from someone or other, many years ago, and the herd has been maintained.
The thing is, they keep them behind a four-foot fence, and bison can clear about eight feet if they're sufficiently motivated. Every time i drove by Shelby Farms (and it was on my way to work, so that was a lot), i would contemplate the fact that the only thing actually keeping those bison there is that they have no compelling reason to be anywhere else.
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:22 PM on April 15 [3 favorites]
I have sheep -- in fact they are being shorn this afternoon -- and can confirm that they are smart. Some can be downright affectionate.
When we first got sheep and needed to catch them for shearing or jabs, it would be comical. We keep devising new ways to lure them to the barn, and they found new ways to avoid it. We learned from watching them and now it is easy to get them to go where we want. It took time and trust.
When I walk to the barn our friendliest ewe, Phoebe, will run to the gate to greet me. She will lean into me and expect petting. She will nudge me if I don't do it enough. She will wag her tail when I scratch "the right spot."
We also have a smart ewe named Dorie who is skittish and shy. She is aloof and distrustful. She came from a much larger flock when the owner -- the women responsible for ALL the Shetland sheep in the US -- and wasn't used to being seen. And she didn't like it. When another older ewe, Camisa -- who was already long in the tooth (the saying comes from sheep!) and some of her teeth had fallen out -- needed to get special food (Alfalfa and beet root), Dorie was volunteered to be her buddy. I had to train them both to put themselves into a pen so the other sheep didn't bully their way into the special food. It took about a week, but they got it. And now Dorie will let me near her.
Camisa has also developed cataracts (and is essentially blind )so it is good that Dorie now wants to hang out with her, and she seems to help Camisa by bah-ing when I am there with the special food so Camisa knows where to find her. I'm sure she is saying "Hurry up, you blind old fool. The food man is here!"
Anyway, sheep are awesome, and not dumb.
posted by terrapin at 5:27 AM on April 16 [9 favorites]
When we first got sheep and needed to catch them for shearing or jabs, it would be comical. We keep devising new ways to lure them to the barn, and they found new ways to avoid it. We learned from watching them and now it is easy to get them to go where we want. It took time and trust.
When I walk to the barn our friendliest ewe, Phoebe, will run to the gate to greet me. She will lean into me and expect petting. She will nudge me if I don't do it enough. She will wag her tail when I scratch "the right spot."
We also have a smart ewe named Dorie who is skittish and shy. She is aloof and distrustful. She came from a much larger flock when the owner -- the women responsible for ALL the Shetland sheep in the US -- and wasn't used to being seen. And she didn't like it. When another older ewe, Camisa -- who was already long in the tooth (the saying comes from sheep!) and some of her teeth had fallen out -- needed to get special food (Alfalfa and beet root), Dorie was volunteered to be her buddy. I had to train them both to put themselves into a pen so the other sheep didn't bully their way into the special food. It took about a week, but they got it. And now Dorie will let me near her.
Camisa has also developed cataracts (and is essentially blind )so it is good that Dorie now wants to hang out with her, and she seems to help Camisa by bah-ing when I am there with the special food so Camisa knows where to find her. I'm sure she is saying "Hurry up, you blind old fool. The food man is here!"
Anyway, sheep are awesome, and not dumb.
posted by terrapin at 5:27 AM on April 16 [9 favorites]
Oh, I meant to mention that I recently read a fun fiction book called Three Bags Full that is a mystery where the sheep attempt to solve the death of their own shepherd. Highly recommended if you can find it as it is out of print. Set in Ireland, but written by a German woman.
posted by terrapin at 5:48 AM on April 16 [4 favorites]
posted by terrapin at 5:48 AM on April 16 [4 favorites]
Three Bags Full is hilarious (at least the original in German is, can't vouch for the translation). If you read German, there's also a sequel called Garou in which the sheep finally get to see Europe. In both books, many of the sheep are really clever.
posted by amf at 8:12 AM on April 16 [2 favorites]
posted by amf at 8:12 AM on April 16 [2 favorites]
Three Bags Full is funny in English. It doesn't look like Garou has been translated, but thank you for the suggestion!
posted by terrapin at 9:04 AM on April 16
posted by terrapin at 9:04 AM on April 16
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I am reminded of the quote from Men in Black:
> "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals..."
Although the ovine equivalent doesn't work as well due to the whole invariant plural noun issue.
posted by AndrewStephens at 7:46 AM on April 15 [2 favorites]