NPR Is a Mess. But “Wokeness” Isn’t the Problem.
April 17, 2024 12:15 AM Subscribe
NPR, the great bastion of old-school audio journalism, is a mess. But as someone who loves NPR, built my career there, and once aspired to stay forever, I say with sadness that it has been for a long time.Alicia Montgomery talks about the history of NPR and how things came here, especially regarding her former NPR colleague Uri Berliner's commentary blaming 'wokeness' and Democratic partisanship for the apparent loss of confidence in the once-unimpeachable institution and similar conversations around this issue.
And that story is that NPR has been both a beacon of thoughtful, engaging, and fair journalism for decades, and a rickety organizational shit show for almost as long. If former CEO John Lansing—the big bad of Uri’s piece—failed to fix it, or somehow made it worse, that’s a failure he shared with almost every NPR leader before him. But if, as Uri charges (albeit in a negative way), Lansing genuinely managed to break the network loose from the grasp of self-righteous white liberal identity politics, even in an imperfect way, that would surprise the hell out of me. Especially given the well-reported exodus of top journalists of color, and the loss of a diverse group of journalists during last year’s podcast layoffs.
I'm sorry, but why are we treating an essay published by Bari Weiss as credible? We've seen this play before - person facing repercussions for their actions (in this case, Berliner was facing disciplinary action in the form of an unpaid suspension for breaking NPR rules on outside work) runs to the right wing to feed the grievance mill as petty revenge.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:41 AM on April 17 [49 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:41 AM on April 17 [49 favorites]
I used to listen to it in my college days, thinking it was important to stay informed...Tried listening to it recently, and lasted 6 minutes.
posted by Czjewel at 2:06 AM on April 17 [9 favorites]
posted by Czjewel at 2:06 AM on April 17 [9 favorites]
I'm sorry, but why are we treating an essay published by Bari Weiss as credible?
I thought we were linking to an essay written by Alicia Montgomery. You don't like her?
posted by pracowity at 2:42 AM on April 17 [10 favorites]
I thought we were linking to an essay written by Alicia Montgomery. You don't like her?
posted by pracowity at 2:42 AM on April 17 [10 favorites]
Gaaaaaaah I went and miswrote Alicia Montgomery's surname as the wrong one! Apologies to everyone for the confusion!
posted by Pachylad at 3:12 AM on April 17 [2 favorites]
posted by Pachylad at 3:12 AM on April 17 [2 favorites]
It's been a few years but I started tuning out for good when there was an interesting piece about something important where they were talking to an ambassador only for Steve Inskeep to cut him off saying that they were out of time... and then went into a piece about the latest iPhone.
posted by drstrangelove at 3:30 AM on April 17 [9 favorites]
posted by drstrangelove at 3:30 AM on April 17 [9 favorites]
I'm sorry, but why are we treating an essay published by Bari Weiss as credible?
This link goes to Slate and is an alternate view. Please don’t derail conversations to argue about a source without checking first.
posted by warriorqueen at 3:45 AM on April 17 [16 favorites]
This link goes to Slate and is an alternate view. Please don’t derail conversations to argue about a source without checking first.
posted by warriorqueen at 3:45 AM on April 17 [16 favorites]
Mod note: Fixed that name.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 3:58 AM on April 17 [3 favorites]
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 3:58 AM on April 17 [3 favorites]
I regularly listen to NPR. I have a shitty commute, and it's the main way I keep up with news. I am a sustaining member of the awesome WABE which gives us great local news coverage as well--one of the only Atlanta news sources to actually cover Cop City from the public perspective instead of the cop perspective. I also used to listen to Tell Me More and still listen to the Code Switch podcast and admire the hell out of Alicia Montgomery.
And I believe everything she says is true. Their 2016 election coverage was a disaster--from ignoring the existence of Bernie Sanders to buying the But Her Emails story wholeheartedly to, as Montgomery notes, treating Trump as a joke instead of a threat to our democracy. I'm regularly infuriated by Steve Inskeep's interviews where he attempts to find some mythical middle ground on an issue where there isn't one.
And still, I don't know of a better daily general news source in the US. The problems at the New York Times and Washington Post are pretty legendary at this point. Our local newspaper the Atlanta Journal-Constitution is a wholly owned machine of the prison-industrial complex. Local television news is nothing but Crime Crime Crime and here's a cute dog story. CNN and MSNBC are largely the same. Our local station that apparently plays Democracy Now, WRFG, doesn't even have enough power to reach my house 7 miles outside the city limits, let alone my workplace 20 miles into the suburbs.
At the end of my commute, I've heard major world and national news stories, often with some decent commentary. I've probably gotten a book or movie or tv review. This is done by a diverse staff, with dedicated foreign correspondents who risk their lives, like producer Anas Baba who is somehow still reporting from Gaza, and people with regional accents who sound like people I know, like Ayesha Rascoe. NPR is like democracy--it's the worst form of news except for all the others I've tried.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:21 AM on April 17 [83 favorites]
And I believe everything she says is true. Their 2016 election coverage was a disaster--from ignoring the existence of Bernie Sanders to buying the But Her Emails story wholeheartedly to, as Montgomery notes, treating Trump as a joke instead of a threat to our democracy. I'm regularly infuriated by Steve Inskeep's interviews where he attempts to find some mythical middle ground on an issue where there isn't one.
And still, I don't know of a better daily general news source in the US. The problems at the New York Times and Washington Post are pretty legendary at this point. Our local newspaper the Atlanta Journal-Constitution is a wholly owned machine of the prison-industrial complex. Local television news is nothing but Crime Crime Crime and here's a cute dog story. CNN and MSNBC are largely the same. Our local station that apparently plays Democracy Now, WRFG, doesn't even have enough power to reach my house 7 miles outside the city limits, let alone my workplace 20 miles into the suburbs.
At the end of my commute, I've heard major world and national news stories, often with some decent commentary. I've probably gotten a book or movie or tv review. This is done by a diverse staff, with dedicated foreign correspondents who risk their lives, like producer Anas Baba who is somehow still reporting from Gaza, and people with regional accents who sound like people I know, like Ayesha Rascoe. NPR is like democracy--it's the worst form of news except for all the others I've tried.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:21 AM on April 17 [83 favorites]
I stopped listening to NPR because I couldn't stand them platforming Nazis. Often with minimal pushback. In a newspaper where it's easy not to read an article, that's one thing, but on the radio with an often captive audience it's inexcusable. They are awful at false equivalence and have been for decades.
posted by rikschell at 5:03 AM on April 17 [28 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 5:03 AM on April 17 [28 favorites]
Ooooo, snap!
"NPR culture encouraged an editorial fixation on finding the exact middle point of the elite political and social thought, planting a flag there, and calling it objectivity."
Exactly.
posted by Don Pepino at 5:14 AM on April 17 [42 favorites]
"NPR culture encouraged an editorial fixation on finding the exact middle point of the elite political and social thought, planting a flag there, and calling it objectivity."
Exactly.
posted by Don Pepino at 5:14 AM on April 17 [42 favorites]
One of the main problems with NPR, and the so-called "liberal media" in general, is that under pressure by bad-faith conservative criticism -- but I repeat myself -- they traded the former standard of "objectivity" for the phony standard of "balance," which inherently favors falsity over truth by giving it an equal footing.
Objectively, there's no reason to treat climate change deniers as if their position has merit.
Objectively, there's no reason to treat vaccine skeptics as if their position has merit.
Objectively, there was no reason to treat the claims of the George W. Bush administration that there were justifications to make war on Iraq as if they had merit.
And objectively, there's no reason to dilute factual contradictions of Republican claims under the rubric of "critics say."
Yet NPR did all of those, at least to the point where I stopped listening in disgust several years ago.
But they've been bad this entire century -- thru the 2000 election, the runup to the Iraq War, and their "but her emails" coverage of the 206 election -- and got steadily worse.
posted by Gelatin at 5:24 AM on April 17 [71 favorites]
Objectively, there's no reason to treat climate change deniers as if their position has merit.
Objectively, there's no reason to treat vaccine skeptics as if their position has merit.
Objectively, there was no reason to treat the claims of the George W. Bush administration that there were justifications to make war on Iraq as if they had merit.
And objectively, there's no reason to dilute factual contradictions of Republican claims under the rubric of "critics say."
Yet NPR did all of those, at least to the point where I stopped listening in disgust several years ago.
But they've been bad this entire century -- thru the 2000 election, the runup to the Iraq War, and their "but her emails" coverage of the 206 election -- and got steadily worse.
posted by Gelatin at 5:24 AM on April 17 [71 favorites]
Winston Churchill once said that “democracy is the worst form of government -- except for all the others that have been tried.” I feel the same way about NPR.
The network tries so hard to be "fair" that it sometimes it forgets to be "objective" or "factually correct." In the past they have been worse: I think naming many Trump & GPO statements as "lies" has been more common lately.
posted by wenestvedt at 5:44 AM on April 17 [13 favorites]
The network tries so hard to be "fair" that it sometimes it forgets to be "objective" or "factually correct." In the past they have been worse: I think naming many Trump & GPO statements as "lies" has been more common lately.
posted by wenestvedt at 5:44 AM on April 17 [13 favorites]
Steve Inskeep weighs in:
If Uri wanted to start a discussion about journalism at NPR, he succeeded, though maybe not in the way he intended. His colleagues have had a rich dialogue about his mistakes. The errors do make NPR look bad, because it’s embarrassing that an NPR journalist would make so many.posted by adamsc at 5:46 AM on April 17 [10 favorites]
I mean, as ever in the United States, we'll have something that is 1. mediocre by global standards; 2. heavily gatekept; 3. centrist or center right in outlook, and then we'll have an enormous media fuss about how it's "woke" or "communist" or "liberal", because to most Americans "liberal" is a curse-word like "communist", as an excuse or a way to force a hard turn to the right.
NPR is not "woke". NPR is centrist at best, with good enough coverage on some issues when the issues are local or complex enough that they can get away with it.
This has always been the case, but now we're tumbling off the fascist cliff as conditions worsen.
posted by Frowner at 6:09 AM on April 17 [45 favorites]
NPR is not "woke". NPR is centrist at best, with good enough coverage on some issues when the issues are local or complex enough that they can get away with it.
This has always been the case, but now we're tumbling off the fascist cliff as conditions worsen.
posted by Frowner at 6:09 AM on April 17 [45 favorites]
I really like watching John Oliver. John Oliver will take a deep dive into a complicated topic and explain all the various facets of it before concluding with "if we value X, we need to do something about Y" and "it's valid to want Z, but be aware that keeping Z also means nothing can be done about Y, and is Z really worth it?"
NPR also does a lot of great dives into complicated topics, but they always shy away from that last bit. NPR will do a story about how a Widget Factory is polluting a local town, interview residents about the horrible cancers they're getting, talk to experts who unequivocally say the cancer is a result of toxic chemicals from the factory, include an obligatory comment from the factory owners about how important the Widget Factory is to the local economy and then just sign off with some perfunctory comment about the sound of frogs in the local reservoir. They never ask questions of the audience. They just throw everything out there expecting people to come to their own conclusions. As a result, the audience never has to consider anything.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:10 AM on April 17 [25 favorites]
NPR also does a lot of great dives into complicated topics, but they always shy away from that last bit. NPR will do a story about how a Widget Factory is polluting a local town, interview residents about the horrible cancers they're getting, talk to experts who unequivocally say the cancer is a result of toxic chemicals from the factory, include an obligatory comment from the factory owners about how important the Widget Factory is to the local economy and then just sign off with some perfunctory comment about the sound of frogs in the local reservoir. They never ask questions of the audience. They just throw everything out there expecting people to come to their own conclusions. As a result, the audience never has to consider anything.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:10 AM on April 17 [25 favorites]
They just throw everything out there expecting people to come to their own conclusions.
That seems to be their attitude when having guests on that they know will lie to them, too -- they expect the audience to recognize that they're lying.
Which is hogwash. My high school journalism teacher told us that when a source lies to you, that's your story, because it means there's a truth that they want to cover up.
NPR, by contrasts, helps their sources cover up those truths.
posted by Gelatin at 6:26 AM on April 17 [30 favorites]
That seems to be their attitude when having guests on that they know will lie to them, too -- they expect the audience to recognize that they're lying.
Which is hogwash. My high school journalism teacher told us that when a source lies to you, that's your story, because it means there's a truth that they want to cover up.
NPR, by contrasts, helps their sources cover up those truths.
posted by Gelatin at 6:26 AM on April 17 [30 favorites]
I listen regularly, since the local station does a pretty good job on local news. We donate. But the "balance" thing drives me absolutely bonkers and I often turn the dial when Steve Inskeep comes on.
posted by joannemerriam at 6:33 AM on April 17 [6 favorites]
posted by joannemerriam at 6:33 AM on April 17 [6 favorites]
This link goes to Slate and is an alternate view. Please don’t derail conversations to argue about a source without checking first.
Or, you know, I'm fully aware of where the link goes, and think that Montgomery is making the mistake of extending the benefit of the doubt to a bad faith actor who doesn’t merit it, and in doing so is playing right into the hands of people like Weiss and noted ratfucker Chris Rufo (who, if you're not aware, has used Berliner's jerimaiad as a springboard to launch an attack on NPR's current head.) And I get that Montgomery had good intentions - but we also know what road is paved with them.
Bad faith must be treated and engaged with as such.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:34 AM on April 17 [7 favorites]
Or, you know, I'm fully aware of where the link goes, and think that Montgomery is making the mistake of extending the benefit of the doubt to a bad faith actor who doesn’t merit it, and in doing so is playing right into the hands of people like Weiss and noted ratfucker Chris Rufo (who, if you're not aware, has used Berliner's jerimaiad as a springboard to launch an attack on NPR's current head.) And I get that Montgomery had good intentions - but we also know what road is paved with them.
Bad faith must be treated and engaged with as such.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:34 AM on April 17 [7 favorites]
I stopped listening to NPR because I couldn't stand them platforming Nazis.
Sort of similarly, I stopped listening out of frustration with their ridiculously softball interviews. A person could be openly lying, or ducking questions, and they just carried on in a pleasant, middle-of-the-road tone and asked the next question instead of digging into that point. I'm ok with them having fascists or whomever on as interviewees, but simply softballing and giving them a platform to say lying things is too far for me.
Now, I very occasionally listen a little bit while driving and never hear anything that makes me want to start listening again.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:35 AM on April 17 [11 favorites]
Sort of similarly, I stopped listening out of frustration with their ridiculously softball interviews. A person could be openly lying, or ducking questions, and they just carried on in a pleasant, middle-of-the-road tone and asked the next question instead of digging into that point. I'm ok with them having fascists or whomever on as interviewees, but simply softballing and giving them a platform to say lying things is too far for me.
Now, I very occasionally listen a little bit while driving and never hear anything that makes me want to start listening again.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:35 AM on April 17 [11 favorites]
I haven't listened to national NPR shows in quite some time. On occassion, I'll catch some Colorado Public Radio coverage that is decent in its local focus but still beset by the false balance bugaboo (and weird internecine maneuverings). The following from Montgomery's piece resonated with me (and reminded me of the podcast layoffs, which had been one space where some inside NPR were trying to make connections to the systemic analysis that puts the lie to hearing "both sides" objectively):
But if, as Uri charges (albeit in a negative way), Lansing genuinely managed to break the network loose from the grasp of self-righteous white liberal identity politics, even in an imperfect way, that would surprise the hell out of me. Especially given the well-reported exodus of top journalists of color, and the loss of a diverse group of journalists during last year’s podcast layoffs.posted by audi alteram partem at 6:42 AM on April 17
NPR always felt like something I should want to listen to - an aspirational thing, like doing the NYTimes crossword on a daily basis. It certainly aligns with my worldview! But try as I might, it always gave me the icks. There is something so preciously, gratingly, English-Major-From-An-Upper-Middle-Class-Family-With-A-House-In-The-Suburbs-And-A-Pied-A-Terre-On-The-Upper-West-Side about it. Even at it's most aw-shucksy, it is condescending and quietly arrogant.
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:52 AM on April 17 [9 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:52 AM on April 17 [9 favorites]
I stopped listening to NPR. I now cobble together news sources from the NY Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, NY Post, Gothamist and City & State. Why the NY Post you ask? Because NYC doesn't have a local newspaper anymore and the NY Post is one of the first to get big local news (fires, attacks, etc) albeit with a sensationalist bent. Biased conservatively, yes but local and fairly fast. Gothamist is similarly local but slower and with a weird bent - mainly because it is written faster so the writers aren't thinking as much about the integrity of the pieces. With a good spectrum, I get a sense of the real news. It helps that I live near the federal courthouses and I can actively see how these news sources bend the news (i.e. - pictures cut off at the right angle to show a huge crowd when there are only like twenty people).
posted by ichimunki at 6:58 AM on April 17 [3 favorites]
posted by ichimunki at 6:58 AM on April 17 [3 favorites]
Decent response to specific Berliner gaslighting assertions in this twitter thread.
posted by SoundInhabitant at 7:07 AM on April 17 [2 favorites]
posted by SoundInhabitant at 7:07 AM on April 17 [2 favorites]
Dip Flash, after yet another horrific school shooting NPR interview some paid consultant McExpert who basically said that children in these situations were being too passive if they weren't fighting their way out of an active shooter event. When the interviewer failed to press this knucklehead on that point I realized NPR had jumped the shark in earnest.
posted by drstrangelove at 7:30 AM on April 17 [18 favorites]
posted by drstrangelove at 7:30 AM on April 17 [18 favorites]
But they've been bad this entire century -- thru the 2000 election, the runup to the Iraq War, and their "but her emails" coverage of the 206 election -- and got steadily worse.
IMHO this nails it. I was an active supporter of NPR... in the early 90s. I stopped supporting them when they full-throatedly bought into the manufactured outrage ginned-up by Newt Gingrich's proto-fascist GOP for Clinton's impeachment (while completely and utterly ignoring the whole host of completely legitimate reasons Clinton should've been impeached for). The disgust continued through the 2000 election, and I finally stopped listening entirely when they lined-up behind the CheneyCo administration after 9/11. And everything I heard or read about them since then showed that not only had they not corrected course, but continued to get worse.
I don't disagree that sometimes their local coverage is good, or that individual shows are worthwhile (I continued to follow Fresh Air and This American Life online for several years, until I eventually lost the habit), but having to sit through all of that "centrist" false-equivalence garbage just to sift out a few gems is a non-starter.
posted by Pedantzilla at 7:39 AM on April 17 [5 favorites]
IMHO this nails it. I was an active supporter of NPR... in the early 90s. I stopped supporting them when they full-throatedly bought into the manufactured outrage ginned-up by Newt Gingrich's proto-fascist GOP for Clinton's impeachment (while completely and utterly ignoring the whole host of completely legitimate reasons Clinton should've been impeached for). The disgust continued through the 2000 election, and I finally stopped listening entirely when they lined-up behind the CheneyCo administration after 9/11. And everything I heard or read about them since then showed that not only had they not corrected course, but continued to get worse.
I don't disagree that sometimes their local coverage is good, or that individual shows are worthwhile (I continued to follow Fresh Air and This American Life online for several years, until I eventually lost the habit), but having to sit through all of that "centrist" false-equivalence garbage just to sift out a few gems is a non-starter.
posted by Pedantzilla at 7:39 AM on April 17 [5 favorites]
The way I've always felt about npr is like if two people were trying to decide what they wanted for dinner and once person said "indian" and the other person said "I want to stab you in the gut" the npr take would be "what if you just stabbed them in the leg!"
They're utterly crap journalists and do nothing but give credibility to right wing bullshit by treating it as equal with reality. The most useful function they serve these days is as a warning sign when I meet people who talk about getting their news from NPR.
posted by Ferreous at 7:53 AM on April 17 [15 favorites]
They're utterly crap journalists and do nothing but give credibility to right wing bullshit by treating it as equal with reality. The most useful function they serve these days is as a warning sign when I meet people who talk about getting their news from NPR.
posted by Ferreous at 7:53 AM on April 17 [15 favorites]
I wonder if any of the comments in which people proudly state when and where they stopped listening to NPR--just like those people who stopped listening to the "MSM" in favor of NewsMax, OANN, Alex Jones, et al. do--are constructive. Opinions are opinions, fine. Your favorite band sucks, too, by the way.
What's the article about again? The disappearance of the chance for people to make these kinds of comments? The people who think every thread is the chance for them to announce this again?
I can't favorite hydropsyche's takeaway enough. I'm looking to get informed. I can't travel to Gaza, or Ukraine, or NYC for the trials, or even the Senate and House Office buildings to witness for myself. I can make my own decisions based on what I learn from listening. I can tell when someone is bullshitting and Steve Inskeep isn't asking hardball questions or calling them out for lying or misleading. The conclusions are left up to ME, and I am fine with that.
Furthermore, NPR is not profiting off of my listenership. There is no NPR algorithm for which stories I'm going to hear (besides the fact that I have a radio in my car, the local NPR station's app on my phone, etc.) Everyone hears the same things, in the same order. I am not the product here. So, I wonder, those of you that gave up on NPR for reasons, who is profiting off of you and your engagement? Other local journalism, I hope? I just heard a really informative article about the Village Voice and other independent local weeklies on NPR yesterday I think. The only reference to local news sources in this thread are the NY Post (with a valid reason) and Gothamist. So rather than your problems, how about solutions as RonButNotStupid pointed out?
posted by Snowishberlin at 8:14 AM on April 17 [12 favorites]
What's the article about again? The disappearance of the chance for people to make these kinds of comments? The people who think every thread is the chance for them to announce this again?
I can't favorite hydropsyche's takeaway enough. I'm looking to get informed. I can't travel to Gaza, or Ukraine, or NYC for the trials, or even the Senate and House Office buildings to witness for myself. I can make my own decisions based on what I learn from listening. I can tell when someone is bullshitting and Steve Inskeep isn't asking hardball questions or calling them out for lying or misleading. The conclusions are left up to ME, and I am fine with that.
Furthermore, NPR is not profiting off of my listenership. There is no NPR algorithm for which stories I'm going to hear (besides the fact that I have a radio in my car, the local NPR station's app on my phone, etc.) Everyone hears the same things, in the same order. I am not the product here. So, I wonder, those of you that gave up on NPR for reasons, who is profiting off of you and your engagement? Other local journalism, I hope? I just heard a really informative article about the Village Voice and other independent local weeklies on NPR yesterday I think. The only reference to local news sources in this thread are the NY Post (with a valid reason) and Gothamist. So rather than your problems, how about solutions as RonButNotStupid pointed out?
posted by Snowishberlin at 8:14 AM on April 17 [12 favorites]
What's the article about again?
Well, for me at least, it's a demonstration of those very problems that people have cited as being what pushed them away from NPR - an NPR reporter engaging in good faith with a bad faith actor and thus serving to enable them, instead of realizing that someone who responds to receiving disciplinary measures by running out to feed Bari Weiss' Wurlitzer is not operating in good faith and acting accordingly.
So rather than your problems, how about solutions
People who are noting problems are not obliged to give solutions, and demanding they do so is a form of bad faith in of itself.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:25 AM on April 17 [17 favorites]
Well, for me at least, it's a demonstration of those very problems that people have cited as being what pushed them away from NPR - an NPR reporter engaging in good faith with a bad faith actor and thus serving to enable them, instead of realizing that someone who responds to receiving disciplinary measures by running out to feed Bari Weiss' Wurlitzer is not operating in good faith and acting accordingly.
So rather than your problems, how about solutions
People who are noting problems are not obliged to give solutions, and demanding they do so is a form of bad faith in of itself.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:25 AM on April 17 [17 favorites]
I am a sustaining member of the awesome WABE
As a former producer there, I appreciate you!
posted by Maaik at 8:34 AM on April 17 [3 favorites]
As a former producer there, I appreciate you!
posted by Maaik at 8:34 AM on April 17 [3 favorites]
I can tell when someone is bullshitting and Steve Inskeep isn't asking hardball questions or calling them out for lying or misleading. The conclusions are left up to ME, and I am fine with that.
You are aware the dupes who stopped listening to the "MSM" in favor of NewsMax, OANN, Alex Jones, et al. all say the exact same thing, right?
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 8:47 AM on April 17 [1 favorite]
You are aware the dupes who stopped listening to the "MSM" in favor of NewsMax, OANN, Alex Jones, et al. all say the exact same thing, right?
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 8:47 AM on April 17 [1 favorite]
So, I wonder, those of you that gave up on NPR for reasons, who is profiting off of you and your engagement? Other local journalism, I hope?
In my adult lifetime, at least, NPR was never either nerdy/wonky enough or leftist enough for me (their ideal imagined demographic aren't bad people per se, just people I don't want to emulate). I support ProPublica and the fledgling local NYC nonprofit journalist network, like Hell Gate and the City. It's honestly a little odd to me to hear people arguing as if NPR were an irreplaceable news resource...it's never been for me, and I think I'm decently well-informed. But I am under 50.
posted by praemunire at 8:50 AM on April 17 [9 favorites]
In my adult lifetime, at least, NPR was never either nerdy/wonky enough or leftist enough for me (their ideal imagined demographic aren't bad people per se, just people I don't want to emulate). I support ProPublica and the fledgling local NYC nonprofit journalist network, like Hell Gate and the City. It's honestly a little odd to me to hear people arguing as if NPR were an irreplaceable news resource...it's never been for me, and I think I'm decently well-informed. But I am under 50.
posted by praemunire at 8:50 AM on April 17 [9 favorites]
after yet another horrific school shooting NPR interview some paid consultant McExpert who basically said that children in these situations were being too passive if they weren't fighting their way out of an active shooter event. When the interviewer failed to press this knucklehead on that point I realized NPR had jumped the shark in earnest.
Was this something beyond Fight in the Run Hide Fight advice?
posted by zamboni at 8:50 AM on April 17
Was this something beyond Fight in the Run Hide Fight advice?
posted by zamboni at 8:50 AM on April 17
I'm really surprised at the reports about budgets. After the McDonalds money rolled in, there was a noticeable shift towards Republicanism. An independent auditor should be sent in.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:52 AM on April 17 [3 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:52 AM on April 17 [3 favorites]
During the Trump administration, my NPR affiliate (WBUR) used to run these cheeky little pledge reminders about the uncertain and dangerous times we live in and how the news can completely turn on the content of an overnight tweet so isn't it great that you have good journalism to rely on?
It always bothers me that they know how terrible things are, but they'll only speak obliquely of it. Remember that little laugh that an NPR correspondent would give after being asked about Trump's incoherent ramblings or erratic behavior? They knew it wasn't a normal administration, but instead of highlighting how abnormal and dangerous it was for U.S. policy to be defined via tweet, they'd just carefully pretend that everything was fine.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:03 AM on April 17 [6 favorites]
It always bothers me that they know how terrible things are, but they'll only speak obliquely of it. Remember that little laugh that an NPR correspondent would give after being asked about Trump's incoherent ramblings or erratic behavior? They knew it wasn't a normal administration, but instead of highlighting how abnormal and dangerous it was for U.S. policy to be defined via tweet, they'd just carefully pretend that everything was fine.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:03 AM on April 17 [6 favorites]
And in news that will surprise nobody, Berliner has resigned from NPR to join the right wing grift train circus.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:03 AM on April 17 [16 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:03 AM on April 17 [16 favorites]
They wouldn't let him platform Nazis, so he just up and joins a Nazi publication, a tale as old as time.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 9:11 AM on April 17 [10 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 9:11 AM on April 17 [10 favorites]
Something I definitely don't feel inclined to do is explain myself to an NPR devotee who immediately compares those who don't like it to Alex Jones fans and then shames them for not listing off their Good Person Approved sources of journalism.
Like, that exact sort of more-informed-and-carbon-neutral-than-thou attitude is what NPR reeks of at all times, is what I loathed about Don't Look Up etc. It is also of a feather with previous threads where people were pilloried for not blindly trusting John Oliver and Jon Stewart.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:14 AM on April 17 [19 favorites]
Like, that exact sort of more-informed-and-carbon-neutral-than-thou attitude is what NPR reeks of at all times, is what I loathed about Don't Look Up etc. It is also of a feather with previous threads where people were pilloried for not blindly trusting John Oliver and Jon Stewart.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:14 AM on April 17 [19 favorites]
They knew it wasn't a normal administration, but instead of highlighting how abnormal and dangerous it was for U.S. policy to be defined via tweet, they'd just carefully pretend that everything was fine.
In fairness, I remember Mary Louise Kelly's interview with Trumpist-traitor Pompeo as a rare demonstration of actual journalism on NPR's part.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:14 AM on April 17 [6 favorites]
In fairness, I remember Mary Louise Kelly's interview with Trumpist-traitor Pompeo as a rare demonstration of actual journalism on NPR's part.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:14 AM on April 17 [6 favorites]
The shame of NPR is that they're almost certainly overwhelmingly funded by the center-Left, and yet too afraid of the right to be center-Left. While I'm sure it's a prestige gig for the senior journalists, I wonder how grating it must be to constantly bow to the both-sides-ism culture.
I haven't paid attention to NPR in 25 years, similar to the Atlantic Monthly and NYT, they've just become irrelevant in my news world, and don't put enough real energy into the culture side now that they believe that news is the only thing that pays the bills.
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:17 AM on April 17 [10 favorites]
I haven't paid attention to NPR in 25 years, similar to the Atlantic Monthly and NYT, they've just become irrelevant in my news world, and don't put enough real energy into the culture side now that they believe that news is the only thing that pays the bills.
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:17 AM on April 17 [10 favorites]
I'll admit that public radio's love (or rather, their audience's love) of shows like Prairie Home Companion and Wait Wait Don't Tell Me, which I actively loathe, always rankled a bit for me even back before their Trump-era soft peddling really turned me off.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:20 AM on April 17 [1 favorite]
posted by Dip Flash at 9:20 AM on April 17 [1 favorite]
I do not blindly trust NPR. I’m stuck with a car commute, so I use the opportunity to pay attention to the news. In a few years, I may have a reasonable transit option, and that would be great. Those of you lucky enough to not car commute have more access to other choices, and I’m delighted for you. But for what I use it for, it gives me one take on the news, and then some days I have time to go online to read other takes as well, none of which seem that much better to me, just different.
posted by hydropsyche at 9:21 AM on April 17 [7 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 9:21 AM on April 17 [7 favorites]
It's ridiculous that this is the second fake story about woke media in the past 2 months, after that stupid finger snapping at chick-fil-A thing.
posted by bq at 9:31 AM on April 17 [2 favorites]
posted by bq at 9:31 AM on April 17 [2 favorites]
Those of you lucky enough to not car commute have more access to other choices, and I’m delighted for you
I spent my last car commute listening to a podcast about a sex comedy roleplaying game. (I don't have Bluetooth in my car, or an aux out in my phone, so I just put my phone in its holder, turn the volume up as high as it'll go, and that's fine for sub-highway levels of noise.)
But seriously, I get a lot of left-wing news and media analysis through podcasts, and that suits me fine - I don't actually need to be kept up-to-date on the churn of the news cycle.
I would be glad for a good source of radio local/regional news. Local journalism has been gutted to the point that when the derecho came through Iowa and knocked everybody's power out a few years ago, even the news stations weren't reporting on disaster relief information.
posted by Jeanne at 9:33 AM on April 17 [2 favorites]
I spent my last car commute listening to a podcast about a sex comedy roleplaying game. (I don't have Bluetooth in my car, or an aux out in my phone, so I just put my phone in its holder, turn the volume up as high as it'll go, and that's fine for sub-highway levels of noise.)
But seriously, I get a lot of left-wing news and media analysis through podcasts, and that suits me fine - I don't actually need to be kept up-to-date on the churn of the news cycle.
I would be glad for a good source of radio local/regional news. Local journalism has been gutted to the point that when the derecho came through Iowa and knocked everybody's power out a few years ago, even the news stations weren't reporting on disaster relief information.
posted by Jeanne at 9:33 AM on April 17 [2 favorites]
As someone who listens to NPR, has a subscription to the New York Times and the Atlantic, and finds them to be all be perfectly useful news sources in spite of their fairly obvious editorial bias towards “balance”, I ask sincerely: what does a healthy news diet look like these days?
posted by ducky l'orange at 9:34 AM on April 17 [13 favorites]
posted by ducky l'orange at 9:34 AM on April 17 [13 favorites]
This complaint is small potatoes compared to what's already been mentioned, but what really gets under my skin is the "Goats and Soda" section on npr.org. Maybe it was cute back in 2014, but it's aged into this oddly twee approach to some really dire topics and feels like it's either missing the mark (at best) or openly mocking its subjects.
From their own description: "You may be thinking: "Goats? Soda? This blog is going to look at communicable diseases, education struggles, sanitation concerns ... and it's called 'Goats and Soda'?"
Like I can see how it makes sense to place a story about (for example) innovations in rural wastewater systems, because that can be an interesting day-in-the-life kind of topic where you learn something about how life is elsewhere in the world, and it's light enough to not give anyone a sense of moral crisis. Or (recently) logistics in transporting blood for transfusions.
But to also have a piece about defining "famine" in Gaza there? And all other coverage of Gaza, genital mutilation, every bit of misery inflicted by Covid and Ebola and smallpox? Under that glib heading with its little illustration of a goat drinking a sody pop?? It's disgusting. It's so disrespectful and lazy and makes me mistrust the whole enterprise. Just call it "global health" and go. This is not the place for chuckles and/or SEO strategy.
posted by knotty knots at 9:37 AM on April 17 [4 favorites]
From their own description: "You may be thinking: "Goats? Soda? This blog is going to look at communicable diseases, education struggles, sanitation concerns ... and it's called 'Goats and Soda'?"
Like I can see how it makes sense to place a story about (for example) innovations in rural wastewater systems, because that can be an interesting day-in-the-life kind of topic where you learn something about how life is elsewhere in the world, and it's light enough to not give anyone a sense of moral crisis. Or (recently) logistics in transporting blood for transfusions.
But to also have a piece about defining "famine" in Gaza there? And all other coverage of Gaza, genital mutilation, every bit of misery inflicted by Covid and Ebola and smallpox? Under that glib heading with its little illustration of a goat drinking a sody pop?? It's disgusting. It's so disrespectful and lazy and makes me mistrust the whole enterprise. Just call it "global health" and go. This is not the place for chuckles and/or SEO strategy.
posted by knotty knots at 9:37 AM on April 17 [4 favorites]
after that stupid finger snapping at chick-fil-A thing
That's just the media doing its thing. It was a good distraction from a Chick-fil-A owner being charged with statutory rape.
Chick-fil-A doesn't hand out a franchise to just anyone, which makes the story even more notable and therefore worth burying, especially by the NYTimes.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:38 AM on April 17 [1 favorite]
That's just the media doing its thing. It was a good distraction from a Chick-fil-A owner being charged with statutory rape.
Chick-fil-A doesn't hand out a franchise to just anyone, which makes the story even more notable and therefore worth burying, especially by the NYTimes.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:38 AM on April 17 [1 favorite]
And how annoying is the moderator on Wait,Wait, Don't Tell Me?
posted by Czjewel at 9:47 AM on April 17 [1 favorite]
posted by Czjewel at 9:47 AM on April 17 [1 favorite]
But to also have a piece about defining "famine" in Gaza there? And all other coverage of Gaza, genital mutilation, every bit of misery inflicted by Covid and Ebola and smallpox? Under that glib heading with its little illustration of a goat drinking a sody pop?? It's disgusting. It's so disrespectful and lazy and makes me mistrust the whole enterprise. Just call it "global health" and go. This is not the place for chuckles and/or SEO strategy.
Yes, this is what is just absolutely sending me about mainstream "liberal" media right now - the incredible urge to reduce the news to debate, normality and spectacle, as if we're all just watching a reality show about another planet. Incredibly bad things are happening! Worse than any period of my near-fifty years on this planet! And we're all just talking in measured tones, speculating about what the far right will do next, what does famine really mean anyway, etc.
In re Gaza - it so happens that my social media gives me a great deal of verified, accurate real-time information about conditions in Palestine. Most of it is atrocities by the IDF of such demonic inventiveness that they would astonish a Clive Barker. So I'll see something that is vetted and true about, eg, children being targeted and killed on a playground and I know that this will never appear in mainstream media. Oh, twenty years down the road, should society have a free-esque press at that point, there will be some kind of long-form journalism, but definitely not now when it might influence people or change things. We've got to maintain, as long as possible, that every single fucking conflict in the entire world is between two equal factions, alike in dignity, with fairly similar long term goals and understandings of the world.
That's why I don't like NPR.
posted by Frowner at 9:51 AM on April 17 [25 favorites]
Yes, this is what is just absolutely sending me about mainstream "liberal" media right now - the incredible urge to reduce the news to debate, normality and spectacle, as if we're all just watching a reality show about another planet. Incredibly bad things are happening! Worse than any period of my near-fifty years on this planet! And we're all just talking in measured tones, speculating about what the far right will do next, what does famine really mean anyway, etc.
In re Gaza - it so happens that my social media gives me a great deal of verified, accurate real-time information about conditions in Palestine. Most of it is atrocities by the IDF of such demonic inventiveness that they would astonish a Clive Barker. So I'll see something that is vetted and true about, eg, children being targeted and killed on a playground and I know that this will never appear in mainstream media. Oh, twenty years down the road, should society have a free-esque press at that point, there will be some kind of long-form journalism, but definitely not now when it might influence people or change things. We've got to maintain, as long as possible, that every single fucking conflict in the entire world is between two equal factions, alike in dignity, with fairly similar long term goals and understandings of the world.
That's why I don't like NPR.
posted by Frowner at 9:51 AM on April 17 [25 favorites]
I'm of the viewpoint that there's no such thing as objectivity in pretty much anything, much less in regards to both the positive and negative things that we see everyday that are considered newsworthy. In my opinion, how the news is reported is very much related to a cultural ethos and moves to the left and right of center depending on the prevailing ideologies of the times.
This thing about objectivity in journalism is really interesting, talks about what objectivity in journalism is, discusses criticisms and is well worth the read.
posted by ashbury at 10:00 AM on April 17 [1 favorite]
This thing about objectivity in journalism is really interesting, talks about what objectivity in journalism is, discusses criticisms and is well worth the read.
posted by ashbury at 10:00 AM on April 17 [1 favorite]
Like, that exact sort of more-informed-and-carbon-neutral-than-thou attitude is what NPR reeks of at all times, is what I loathed about Don't Look Up etc. It is also of a feather with previous threads where people were pilloried for not blindly trusting John Oliver and Jon Stewart.
It has ads! They're just not ads for medications or lawsuits or precious metals scams! The ads and the people who give donations are going to influence the viewpoint! It's not 1972 Children's Television Workshop!
posted by kingdead at 10:11 AM on April 17 [3 favorites]
It has ads! They're just not ads for medications or lawsuits or precious metals scams! The ads and the people who give donations are going to influence the viewpoint! It's not 1972 Children's Television Workshop!
posted by kingdead at 10:11 AM on April 17 [3 favorites]
Peter Segal never hurt anyone...
posted by mattgriffin at 10:18 AM on April 17 [10 favorites]
posted by mattgriffin at 10:18 AM on April 17 [10 favorites]
...the incredible urge to reduce the news to debate, normality and spectacle, as if we're all just watching a reality show about another planet. Incredibly bad things are happening!
Understood. I entered 2024 dreading what it will bring on most fronts, and it is delivering.
But I can understand the decision "to reduce the news to debate, normality...in measured tones" as senior journalists and editors attempting to get the facts across, to encourage thought and perspective? My despair can already take care of itself. I'm avoiding gawking at spectacles as much as possible.
posted by Artful Codger at 10:18 AM on April 17
Understood. I entered 2024 dreading what it will bring on most fronts, and it is delivering.
But I can understand the decision "to reduce the news to debate, normality...in measured tones" as senior journalists and editors attempting to get the facts across, to encourage thought and perspective? My despair can already take care of itself. I'm avoiding gawking at spectacles as much as possible.
posted by Artful Codger at 10:18 AM on April 17
I stopped actively listening to NPR after one too many softball interviews on Morning Edition. However I continue to listen to numerous NPR podcasts, because I think a lot of those are where the good, in-depth, helpful work is being done.
I don't have a solution, frankly. I support my local station because I believe in public media. I fund ProPublica and Oaklandside.
But I don't know how to make the media report on the stakes instead of the odds.
posted by suelac at 10:35 AM on April 17 [4 favorites]
I don't have a solution, frankly. I support my local station because I believe in public media. I fund ProPublica and Oaklandside.
But I don't know how to make the media report on the stakes instead of the odds.
posted by suelac at 10:35 AM on April 17 [4 favorites]
This complaint is small potatoes compared to what's already been mentioned, but what really gets under my skin is the "Goats and Soda" section on npr.org. Maybe it was cute back in 2014, but it's aged into this oddly twee approach to some really dire topics and feels like it's either missing the mark (at best) or openly mocking its subjects.
That seems like something that won't age well. I couldn't disagree more with the professor quoted in that piece: "I love the name 'Goats and Soda,' " says Kathryn Whetten, professor of public policy and global health at Duke University. "It grabs the reader, creates a curiosity in what it means and how goats and soda can be related, and makes the person want to read more."
posted by Dip Flash at 10:44 AM on April 17 [1 favorite]
That seems like something that won't age well. I couldn't disagree more with the professor quoted in that piece: "I love the name 'Goats and Soda,' " says Kathryn Whetten, professor of public policy and global health at Duke University. "It grabs the reader, creates a curiosity in what it means and how goats and soda can be related, and makes the person want to read more."
posted by Dip Flash at 10:44 AM on April 17 [1 favorite]
NPR is not "woke". NPR is centrist at best
I always heard that NPR stood for "Nice Polite Republicans".
posted by gimonca at 10:52 AM on April 17 [3 favorites]
I always heard that NPR stood for "Nice Polite Republicans".
posted by gimonca at 10:52 AM on April 17 [3 favorites]
My partner was the Director of DEI for KQED here in San Francisco and let me tell you, "woke" is not the problem at NPR and its affiliated stations.
posted by turbowombat at 10:57 AM on April 17 [17 favorites]
posted by turbowombat at 10:57 AM on April 17 [17 favorites]
I remember one editorial meeting where a white newsroom leader said that Trump’s strong poll numbers wouldn’t survive his being exposed as a racist. When a journalist of color asked whether his numbers could be rising because of his racism, the comment was met with silence. In another meeting, I and a couple of other editorial leaders were encouraged to make sure that any coverage of a Trump lie was matched with a story about a lie from Hillary Clinton. Another colleague asked what to do if one candidate just lied more than the other. Another silent response.
This paragraph is the root of the problem. Conservatives will attack them no matter what they do, so they should have chosen to go down honestly instead of building false equivalencies.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 11:21 AM on April 17 [23 favorites]
This paragraph is the root of the problem. Conservatives will attack them no matter what they do, so they should have chosen to go down honestly instead of building false equivalencies.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 11:21 AM on April 17 [23 favorites]
It's pathetically easy to drag NPR to the right by telling them their view-from-nowhere triangulated consensus framing is biased against conservatives. They'll never stop doing it because it fucking works.
posted by Vulgar Euphemism at 11:25 AM on April 17 [2 favorites]
posted by Vulgar Euphemism at 11:25 AM on April 17 [2 favorites]
NPR, where both sides of a genocide have their reasons and everything is just fine
posted by tovarisch at 11:26 AM on April 17 [10 favorites]
posted by tovarisch at 11:26 AM on April 17 [10 favorites]
My partner was the Director of DEI for KQED here in San Francisco and let me tell you, "woke" is not the problem at NPR and its affiliated stations.
I'm going to guess and say that NPR has the same staffing problems that other institutions of similar slant have, which is that in order to work there at a non support level you need a certain kind of pedigree and a certain degree of ability to tolerate a lower salary. This requires institutional wealth and/or a financially supportive spouse, and white and Asian people are more likely to meet those requirements.
Anyway the problem that's going on now is that the the Israel coverage needs to move right because there isn't anyone who listens under the age of 50.
posted by kingdead at 11:35 AM on April 17
I'm going to guess and say that NPR has the same staffing problems that other institutions of similar slant have, which is that in order to work there at a non support level you need a certain kind of pedigree and a certain degree of ability to tolerate a lower salary. This requires institutional wealth and/or a financially supportive spouse, and white and Asian people are more likely to meet those requirements.
Anyway the problem that's going on now is that the the Israel coverage needs to move right because there isn't anyone who listens under the age of 50.
posted by kingdead at 11:35 AM on April 17
Isn't this actually a good sign? If the 10% most conservative people hate it for being left-wing and the 10% of most liberal people hate it for being right-wing they have to be striking some sort of balance.
posted by hermanubis at 11:40 AM on April 17
posted by hermanubis at 11:40 AM on April 17
hermanubis:
Balance is not the same as objectivity though?
Like tovarisch's comment pithily points out: "NPR, where both sides of a genocide have their reasons and everything is just fine"
or, to put another way, someone saying "very fine people on both sides" does not necessarily mean they're being accurate, correct, good, or objective
posted by i used to be someone else at 11:52 AM on April 17 [2 favorites]
Balance is not the same as objectivity though?
Like tovarisch's comment pithily points out: "NPR, where both sides of a genocide have their reasons and everything is just fine"
or, to put another way, someone saying "very fine people on both sides" does not necessarily mean they're being accurate, correct, good, or objective
posted by i used to be someone else at 11:52 AM on April 17 [2 favorites]
In fairness, I remember Mary Louise Kelly's interview with Trumpist-traitor Pompeo as a rare demonstration of actual journalism on NPR's part.
Mary Louise Kelly's interview was great, but what did NPR do in response to his creepy-as-fuck after interview meeting with her? Kelly mentioned it following the broadcast of the interview and she wrote an editorial about how inappropriate it was, and I think NPR released a pretty bland statement where they said they stand by Kelly, but the whole thing only lasted a news cycle before it disappeared.
I know journalism isn't supposed to peddle outrage, but it seems like the Secretary of State luring a journalist into his private living room to scream obscenities at them while making vague threats about their future is the kind of behavior journalists would like people to know about. Was there an investigation into whether Pompeo had done it to anyone else? Did NPR try to get other organizations on board with blackballing Pompeo in response to his abuse? Did they change their approach to the administration and become more critical in their reporting?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 11:55 AM on April 17 [6 favorites]
Mary Louise Kelly's interview was great, but what did NPR do in response to his creepy-as-fuck after interview meeting with her? Kelly mentioned it following the broadcast of the interview and she wrote an editorial about how inappropriate it was, and I think NPR released a pretty bland statement where they said they stand by Kelly, but the whole thing only lasted a news cycle before it disappeared.
I know journalism isn't supposed to peddle outrage, but it seems like the Secretary of State luring a journalist into his private living room to scream obscenities at them while making vague threats about their future is the kind of behavior journalists would like people to know about. Was there an investigation into whether Pompeo had done it to anyone else? Did NPR try to get other organizations on board with blackballing Pompeo in response to his abuse? Did they change their approach to the administration and become more critical in their reporting?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 11:55 AM on April 17 [6 favorites]
While I'm sure it's a prestige gig for the senior journalists, I wonder how grating it must be to constantly bow to the both-sides-ism culture
I don't think it grates on them at all! The primary method of corporate censorship is, if you don't already completely buy into the corporate line, then you don't get hired or promoted into those positions. Those mealy-mouthed both-siders don't act that way b/c they're told to, they do that b/c that's how they think.
I always heard that NPR stood for "Nice Polite Republicans".
That's a good one. Personally I've always used Greg Palast's "National Pentagon Radio."
posted by Pedantzilla at 11:55 AM on April 17 [2 favorites]
I don't think it grates on them at all! The primary method of corporate censorship is, if you don't already completely buy into the corporate line, then you don't get hired or promoted into those positions. Those mealy-mouthed both-siders don't act that way b/c they're told to, they do that b/c that's how they think.
I always heard that NPR stood for "Nice Polite Republicans".
That's a good one. Personally I've always used Greg Palast's "National Pentagon Radio."
posted by Pedantzilla at 11:55 AM on April 17 [2 favorites]
“Balanced” means “only say things that upset as few people as possible”. Its failure by self-censorship.
I want my news to tell the truth, no matter who it upsets.
posted by FallibleHuman at 11:58 AM on April 17 [2 favorites]
I want my news to tell the truth, no matter who it upsets.
posted by FallibleHuman at 11:58 AM on April 17 [2 favorites]
>I stopped listening out of frustration with their ridiculously softball interviews.
Same here. I stopped back in 2015 or 2016 in the lead-up to the election of Trump. The precise event that sent me packing: A softball interview with Jerry Falwell Jr., as a surrogate for Trump. The interviewer cheerfully allowed lie after lie to go unchallenged.
At the time, I sent an email to the NPR ombudsperson pointing out how irresponsible that Falwell interview was. This was before the election, when a lot of people still didn't think it was possible he'd win. I highlighted the softball nature of the interview, and how NPR's broadcasting of that might play a substantial role in leading to Trump getting elected.
Their response? "We have listeners in red states too, you know!"
Well there you go. Goodbye forever, NPR.
One day, when Trump is dead and gone, and hopefully a larger number of people (including a lot of NPR listeners) have greater historical perspective and appreciation for just how dangerous and insane this period of U.S. history has been, I'm going to go back and memorialize a few of those "driveway" moments so people can see how deluded they actually were.
posted by mikeand1 at 12:08 PM on April 17 [5 favorites]
Same here. I stopped back in 2015 or 2016 in the lead-up to the election of Trump. The precise event that sent me packing: A softball interview with Jerry Falwell Jr., as a surrogate for Trump. The interviewer cheerfully allowed lie after lie to go unchallenged.
At the time, I sent an email to the NPR ombudsperson pointing out how irresponsible that Falwell interview was. This was before the election, when a lot of people still didn't think it was possible he'd win. I highlighted the softball nature of the interview, and how NPR's broadcasting of that might play a substantial role in leading to Trump getting elected.
Their response? "We have listeners in red states too, you know!"
Well there you go. Goodbye forever, NPR.
One day, when Trump is dead and gone, and hopefully a larger number of people (including a lot of NPR listeners) have greater historical perspective and appreciation for just how dangerous and insane this period of U.S. history has been, I'm going to go back and memorialize a few of those "driveway" moments so people can see how deluded they actually were.
posted by mikeand1 at 12:08 PM on April 17 [5 favorites]
a.k.a. Neoliberal Propaganda Radio
posted by tovarisch at 12:15 PM on April 17 [4 favorites]
posted by tovarisch at 12:15 PM on April 17 [4 favorites]
As someone who listens to NPR, has a subscription to the New York Times and the Atlantic, and finds them to be all be perfectly useful news sources in spite of their fairly obvious editorial bias towards “balance”, I ask sincerely: what does a healthy news diet look like these days?
Scrolled through comments, shaping up and idea to make pretty much exactly that comment; saw that comment; scrolled through a few dozen more, saw no response to it.
So, seconded: how are all of you who are heaping [to a great extent deserved] abuse on NPR getting your news, these days?
posted by gurple at 12:21 PM on April 17 [4 favorites]
Scrolled through comments, shaping up and idea to make pretty much exactly that comment; saw that comment; scrolled through a few dozen more, saw no response to it.
So, seconded: how are all of you who are heaping [to a great extent deserved] abuse on NPR getting your news, these days?
posted by gurple at 12:21 PM on April 17 [4 favorites]
It's pretty easy to drag NPR. I get that. It deserves it, often. But I think it's important to distinguish between the national NPR staff and the staff of your local station.
Granted, not every local NPR affiliate has a robust news staff, but some do. My local stations, WGCU and WUSF, have some excellent journalists covering actual news beats. And Boston's WBUR has a full-fledged investigations unit that has done some great work lately, looking at how the state leaves thousands and thousands of public housing units empty while people linger for years on waiting lists to get in.
Last month the WBUR news staff, including the investigations team, was informed there would be major layoffs and/or buyouts due to weak finances. So when your local station does one of those fundraising drives, consider supporting them, even if you're sick of the national team and their softball interviews. Local coverage depends on it, and radio is more important than ever as hedge fund owners gut newspaper staffs.
posted by martin q blank at 12:25 PM on April 17 [12 favorites]
Granted, not every local NPR affiliate has a robust news staff, but some do. My local stations, WGCU and WUSF, have some excellent journalists covering actual news beats. And Boston's WBUR has a full-fledged investigations unit that has done some great work lately, looking at how the state leaves thousands and thousands of public housing units empty while people linger for years on waiting lists to get in.
Last month the WBUR news staff, including the investigations team, was informed there would be major layoffs and/or buyouts due to weak finances. So when your local station does one of those fundraising drives, consider supporting them, even if you're sick of the national team and their softball interviews. Local coverage depends on it, and radio is more important than ever as hedge fund owners gut newspaper staffs.
posted by martin q blank at 12:25 PM on April 17 [12 favorites]
what does a healthy news diet look like these days? etc.
MetaFilter leans left enough that almost anything is going to be insufficiently left to please people here. Especially the shouty ones. But here are a couple of charts for discussion. (The charts themselves will of course be shot down, but that's part of the discussion.) posted by pracowity at 1:03 PM on April 17 [3 favorites]
MetaFilter leans left enough that almost anything is going to be insufficiently left to please people here. Especially the shouty ones. But here are a couple of charts for discussion. (The charts themselves will of course be shot down, but that's part of the discussion.) posted by pracowity at 1:03 PM on April 17 [3 favorites]
Democracy Now is the best single source imo. If there's a more credible and humane place to learn about national and world events then I haven't discovered it. I wish they'd focus even more on class and labor issues, but I'd still recommend downloading their mobile app and following the news there before anywhere else.
Lately the news has been so relentlessly bleak that I've had to go on a news fast. I can't handle it. I still feel like I keep up well with the biggest current events via MetaFilter. And many posts here link to big mainstream sources, and that's ok. Big commercial news outlets aren't 100% automatically bad.
Also does reading Slavoj Zizek's more recent books count as news? That's what's had the most impact on my understanding national and global politics lately.
posted by tovarisch at 1:23 PM on April 17 [5 favorites]
Lately the news has been so relentlessly bleak that I've had to go on a news fast. I can't handle it. I still feel like I keep up well with the biggest current events via MetaFilter. And many posts here link to big mainstream sources, and that's ok. Big commercial news outlets aren't 100% automatically bad.
Also does reading Slavoj Zizek's more recent books count as news? That's what's had the most impact on my understanding national and global politics lately.
posted by tovarisch at 1:23 PM on April 17 [5 favorites]
Those media bias charts seem questionable at best. Calling HuffPo and The New Yorker "left" is a joke to me... And they're saying the NYT Opinion section is "left"? GTFOH.
posted by tovarisch at 1:28 PM on April 17 [7 favorites]
posted by tovarisch at 1:28 PM on April 17 [7 favorites]
Doesn’t Democracy Now do segments on NPR?
posted by ducky l'orange at 1:36 PM on April 17
posted by ducky l'orange at 1:36 PM on April 17
this oddly twee approach to some really dire topics and feels like it's either missing the mark (at best) or openly mocking its subjects.
This is the reason why I will fly across the room to change the radio station -- or nearly swerve my car into oncoming traffic to change the station if I'm listening while driving -- when Kai Ryssdal is hosting Marketplace.
His tone while discussing serious economic issues that will have dire consequences for rank-and-file workers and marginalized people is exactly the tone of someone relating an anecdote about their next door neighbor who likes to play croquet in a speedo, martini in hand, during the dead of winter. Oh! So quirky and amusing, with absolutely no consequences for anyone I care about, so let's discuss it as a lark!
I stopped listening out of frustration with their ridiculously softball interviews.
Yep, and for me one of the particularly egregious examples came about during the Trump adminstration when there was a big brouhaha over Steve Bannon participating in National Security Council meetings. If I recall correctly, there was bipartisan uneasiness with this, and so the administration sent one of their Mouths of Sauron to NPR to remind everyone that everything Trump did was blessed and sacred.
In addition to the normal softball questions, the NPR reporter felt the need to make the case for Bannon above and beyond what the mouthpiece was saying unchallenged, finishing a sentence for them in the closing seconds of the piece, as the mouthpiece pointed out that Bannon was a former naval officer. "So he's qualified to serve on the NSC," finished the reporter. Note that I didn't finish that with a question mark: the reporter stated it as unassailable fact. I could hear the mouthpiece grinning in response to the reporter doing his work for him.
And all of this is aside from shit like former reporter Robert Siegel doubling down on showing his ass when he described Michael Brown as a thug and listeners pointed out how that word is very much a right-wing racist dogwhistle (on par with "DEI," as when they describe Baltimore's mayor as "DEI.")
It really feels like the NYT Pitchbot ought to be called the NYT/NPR pitchbot, basically.
So, no, wokeness is not the problem with NPR, it's weakness.
posted by lord_wolf at 1:41 PM on April 17 [16 favorites]
This is the reason why I will fly across the room to change the radio station -- or nearly swerve my car into oncoming traffic to change the station if I'm listening while driving -- when Kai Ryssdal is hosting Marketplace.
His tone while discussing serious economic issues that will have dire consequences for rank-and-file workers and marginalized people is exactly the tone of someone relating an anecdote about their next door neighbor who likes to play croquet in a speedo, martini in hand, during the dead of winter. Oh! So quirky and amusing, with absolutely no consequences for anyone I care about, so let's discuss it as a lark!
I stopped listening out of frustration with their ridiculously softball interviews.
Yep, and for me one of the particularly egregious examples came about during the Trump adminstration when there was a big brouhaha over Steve Bannon participating in National Security Council meetings. If I recall correctly, there was bipartisan uneasiness with this, and so the administration sent one of their Mouths of Sauron to NPR to remind everyone that everything Trump did was blessed and sacred.
In addition to the normal softball questions, the NPR reporter felt the need to make the case for Bannon above and beyond what the mouthpiece was saying unchallenged, finishing a sentence for them in the closing seconds of the piece, as the mouthpiece pointed out that Bannon was a former naval officer. "So he's qualified to serve on the NSC," finished the reporter. Note that I didn't finish that with a question mark: the reporter stated it as unassailable fact. I could hear the mouthpiece grinning in response to the reporter doing his work for him.
And all of this is aside from shit like former reporter Robert Siegel doubling down on showing his ass when he described Michael Brown as a thug and listeners pointed out how that word is very much a right-wing racist dogwhistle (on par with "DEI," as when they describe Baltimore's mayor as "DEI.")
It really feels like the NYT Pitchbot ought to be called the NYT/NPR pitchbot, basically.
So, no, wokeness is not the problem with NPR, it's weakness.
posted by lord_wolf at 1:41 PM on April 17 [16 favorites]
Bari Weiss is a useful shit magnet. In that you have all these people who identify as the actual liberals, the voice of reason, unaligned with either party, etc etc, but then sooner or later they go align with Bari Weiss and their ass is exposed for the ugly fash-loving ass that it is.
posted by splitpeasoup at 1:42 PM on April 17 [14 favorites]
posted by splitpeasoup at 1:42 PM on April 17 [14 favorites]
Calling HuffPo and The New Yorker "left" is a joke to me
Epoch Times and Washington Times are listed as just "lean right". That Overton window is infinitely stretchy. And maybe cult-friendly.
posted by gimonca at 2:20 PM on April 17 [13 favorites]
Epoch Times and Washington Times are listed as just "lean right". That Overton window is infinitely stretchy. And maybe cult-friendly.
posted by gimonca at 2:20 PM on April 17 [13 favorites]
Doesn’t Democracy Now do segments on NPR?There's a list of all the stations that carry it, although it's not up to date. My understanding is that NPR partner stations have leeway (along certain criteria, quality guidelines etc.) to choose what local and national content they want to carry besides stuff directly from NPR, and I think some of them license segments from Democracy Now, or the full show.
I'd have more respect for my local partner station if they did that too. I do really like the local programming on my town's station, HPR. I was even a monthly donor, because I have a few friends who work there. But the national stuff... especially the NYT Daily Half-hour (or whatever) and TED podcasts recently licensed to air in my market... puke... they pushed me to cancel my sub.
posted by tovarisch at 2:40 PM on April 17
All great links, thank you!
posted by ducky l'orange at 3:24 PM on April 17
posted by ducky l'orange at 3:24 PM on April 17
Democracy Now is the best single source imo.
I haven't heard DN in a few years, but I used to find the long-term host to be grating in the same way I found the Prairie Home Companion guy grating. They have very distinctive voices which I am sure is great in terms of branding and for people who like it, but for me, personally, their styles just didn't connect.
posted by Dip Flash at 3:31 PM on April 17 [4 favorites]
I haven't heard DN in a few years, but I used to find the long-term host to be grating in the same way I found the Prairie Home Companion guy grating. They have very distinctive voices which I am sure is great in terms of branding and for people who like it, but for me, personally, their styles just didn't connect.
posted by Dip Flash at 3:31 PM on April 17 [4 favorites]
I don't know when I stopped listening to NPR, quite a while ago though. Most likely, it was when I stopped listening to radio in general. Most likely around the advent of the ipod. More recently, since the obvious obsolescence of the ipod, and the rising prices of for-pay streaming media, I've had the opportunity to re-listen. I was surprised at how awful NPR had become. I hadn't realized, like many other news sources , they had succumbed to the dreaded money talks ethos, and the folks with money are Republican. I refuse to listen to NPR, or read NYT, and their ilk. Others have mentioned podcasts, and I've done some of that. I also get some news from Alternet and Daily Kos, though I have different problem with left biased news. It's all doom and gloom. For a reason of course, but I don't need the help to be depressed. Mostly I labor under the assumption that if something happens I'll get to hear about it, I know a lot of well informed people, I work in a library. While you may decry this attitude, it has certainly helped my relation with my family, most of whom (in my age group) lean pretty far right.
posted by evilDoug at 4:26 PM on April 17 [2 favorites]
posted by evilDoug at 4:26 PM on April 17 [2 favorites]
Throughout my adult life, the primary function of NPR has been to repeatedly remind us that Israelis are just human beings who want peace, and would have it, if only those horrid chanting barbarians that surround them would accept their lot as defeated peoples.
Then in 2016, its primary function became to portray Trump and his administration as just like any other administration instead of the eldritch assault on reality it actually was.
Then last year, it went back to trying to make us identify with precious precious Israel. About six weeks ago, they did a piece on how the citizens of Sderot, a town near the Gaza border, were all coming back to town to enjoy "coffee on the balcony". At no point was it mentioned that the Gazans don't have balconies, or homes, anymore, but they did give us a local Israeli politician telling us "those people should be settled far away from our peaceful town." I was like noooope and turned it off, and I've barely listened to it since.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 5:23 PM on April 17 [9 favorites]
Then in 2016, its primary function became to portray Trump and his administration as just like any other administration instead of the eldritch assault on reality it actually was.
Then last year, it went back to trying to make us identify with precious precious Israel. About six weeks ago, they did a piece on how the citizens of Sderot, a town near the Gaza border, were all coming back to town to enjoy "coffee on the balcony". At no point was it mentioned that the Gazans don't have balconies, or homes, anymore, but they did give us a local Israeli politician telling us "those people should be settled far away from our peaceful town." I was like noooope and turned it off, and I've barely listened to it since.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 5:23 PM on April 17 [9 favorites]
It is also of a feather with previous threads where people were pilloried for not blindly trusting John Oliver and Jon Stewart.
I know it isn't a popular opinion here on MeFi, but TDS and its comedians (Stewart and Oliver) laughed at Republicans and gave them softball interviews — and now here we are in 2024, on the precipice of a Fascist totalitarian state run by someone who seems to be able to delay criminal cases or outright defeat them altogether. To some extent, I have wondered aloud at the risk of being unpopular to ask if shows like TDS and its oeuvre have helped Fascists, when those shows are run by people who will end up being largely or entirely unaffected by the establishment of Fascism. There is room for NPR and its management in this cadre.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:30 PM on April 17 [3 favorites]
I know it isn't a popular opinion here on MeFi, but TDS and its comedians (Stewart and Oliver) laughed at Republicans and gave them softball interviews — and now here we are in 2024, on the precipice of a Fascist totalitarian state run by someone who seems to be able to delay criminal cases or outright defeat them altogether. To some extent, I have wondered aloud at the risk of being unpopular to ask if shows like TDS and its oeuvre have helped Fascists, when those shows are run by people who will end up being largely or entirely unaffected by the establishment of Fascism. There is room for NPR and its management in this cadre.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:30 PM on April 17 [3 favorites]
Mary Louise Kelly's interview was great, but what did NPR do in response to his creepy-as-fuck after interview meeting with her?
To your point, that interview might well be an exception that proves the rule — only to say that NPR staff can do real journalism, when they choose to: She could have let Pompeo and his aide walk all over her and she simply did not play along in that crucial moment, however management responded after the fact.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:37 PM on April 17 [2 favorites]
To your point, that interview might well be an exception that proves the rule — only to say that NPR staff can do real journalism, when they choose to: She could have let Pompeo and his aide walk all over her and she simply did not play along in that crucial moment, however management responded after the fact.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:37 PM on April 17 [2 favorites]
Calling HuffPo and The New Yorker "left" is a joke to me... And they're saying the NYT Opinion section is "left"? GTFOH.
posted by tovarisch at 4:28 PM on April 17 [3 favorites +] [⚑]
Eponysterical.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 5:57 PM on April 17
posted by tovarisch at 4:28 PM on April 17 [3 favorites +] [⚑]
Eponysterical.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 5:57 PM on April 17
Lol, it's so gross to see liberals and leftists conflated. We are not the same.
posted by tovarisch at 6:04 PM on April 17 [3 favorites]
posted by tovarisch at 6:04 PM on April 17 [3 favorites]
Patton Oswalt bit on NPR ("I send money to NPR... But it's unlistenable radio!")
posted by jonp72 at 6:49 PM on April 17
posted by jonp72 at 6:49 PM on April 17
After the paywall article I wonder what publication is alienated enough from capital’s agenda to “deserve” enough donations from the kind of people who donate to run independently of it.
posted by Selena777 at 8:18 PM on April 17
posted by Selena777 at 8:18 PM on April 17
Prairie Home Companion and Wait Wait Don't Tell, which I actively loathe, always rankled a bit for me
I really enjoyed Ask Me Another but the pandemic seemingly did it in. And a few years before that they nuked the Sunday puzzle podcast feed with no replacement. I get the impression I am squarely not in their target demo.
Where do I get my news, if not NPR? Well, I suppose to some degree news comes to me, via the social networks like this one. Otherwise mostly industry news and global news with a centrist PoV I'm confident MeFi will not approve of.
posted by pwnguin at 8:30 PM on April 17 [1 favorite]
I really enjoyed Ask Me Another but the pandemic seemingly did it in. And a few years before that they nuked the Sunday puzzle podcast feed with no replacement. I get the impression I am squarely not in their target demo.
Where do I get my news, if not NPR? Well, I suppose to some degree news comes to me, via the social networks like this one. Otherwise mostly industry news and global news with a centrist PoV I'm confident MeFi will not approve of.
posted by pwnguin at 8:30 PM on April 17 [1 favorite]
Lol, it's so gross to see liberals and leftists conflated. We are not the same.
For what it's worth, I wasn't conflating liberals and leftists in my "Eponysterical" comment. I was just amused by someone with the handle "tovarisch" denouncing the biggest left-leaning publications in U.S. media for not being far enough to the left.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:13 PM on April 17 [1 favorite]
For what it's worth, I wasn't conflating liberals and leftists in my "Eponysterical" comment. I was just amused by someone with the handle "tovarisch" denouncing the biggest left-leaning publications in U.S. media for not being far enough to the left.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:13 PM on April 17 [1 favorite]
Haha, ya my pointing that out was in the spirit of the handle. And I didn't mean to say you were doing the conflating. Das vidanya my comradely friend :)
posted by tovarisch at 12:19 AM on April 18 [1 favorite]
posted by tovarisch at 12:19 AM on April 18 [1 favorite]
Margaret Sullivan comments in the Guardian about this affair, and makes reference to this fact-check by Dan Kennedy about some of Berliner's assertions.
posted by Artful Codger at 8:51 AM on April 18 [2 favorites]
posted by Artful Codger at 8:51 AM on April 18 [2 favorites]
“3 Smart Responses to the Mess at NPR,” Parker Molloy, The Present Age, 17 April 2024
posted by ob1quixote at 11:09 AM on April 18 [2 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 11:09 AM on April 18 [2 favorites]
NoxAeternum: “[N]oted ratfucker Chris Rufo (who, if you're not aware, has used Berliner's jerimaiad as a springboard to launch an attack on NPR's current head.)”“A comprehensive list of actions that your organization is required to take if it is being targeted by Christopher Rufo,” Garrett Bucks, The White Pages, 17 April 2024
posted by ob1quixote at 11:21 AM on April 18 [6 favorites]
Kevin Drum has eviscerated Berliner’s thesis, since liberal navel gazing about NPR will now be the norm for the next 10-50 years.
Worth a read (it took less than 1000 words).
posted by teece303 at 8:36 AM on April 19 [1 favorite]
Worth a read (it took less than 1000 words).
posted by teece303 at 8:36 AM on April 19 [1 favorite]
“Opinion | Here’s why Uri Berliner couldn’t stay at NPR,” Erik Wemple, The Washington Post, 18 April 2024
posted by ob1quixote at 6:18 PM on April 20 [1 favorite]
posted by ob1quixote at 6:18 PM on April 20 [1 favorite]
“The New York Times is a right-wing newsletter, with recipes ,” Jamison Foser, Finding Gravity, 17 April 2024
posted by ob1quixote at 10:33 AM on April 24 [3 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 10:33 AM on April 24 [3 favorites]
« Older Food Origins: Why Jesus never ate a banana | This trend isn’t really about food or health. It’s... Newer »
NPR has been both a beacon of thoughtful, engaging, and fair journalism for decades, and a rickety organizational shit show for almost as long.
in other words, it's a newsroom...
posted by chavenet at 12:31 AM on April 17 [10 favorites]