October 28, 2002
6:35 PM   Subscribe

Kook sews seeds of doubt A follow up to a much-criticized earlier thread. And once again, I disavow the source. However, suck it up and refute what is said, not who is saying it, or prove yourself just as prejudiced. (Ironically, I have some experience in the subject, but just enough to know that he *may* not be lying. I cannot say for sure.)
posted by kablam (17 comments total)

This post was deleted for the following reason:

Difficult if not impossible to debate someone who doesn't catalogue his facts nor backs up his assertions with references, I'd say.

Refute it?

Using the same technique as Turner:

Space aliens blew up the Bali night club. I have incontrovertible proof that it was punishment to the human race for denying them mining rights on the moon.
posted by swerdloff at 6:40 PM on October 28, 2002

Sure Laugh it off, but what if it WAS space aliens?
Who'd be laughing then, huh?

I for one, am fashioning even a new tinfoil hat, "just to be sure".
posted by Elim at 6:45 PM on October 28, 2002

What swerdloff said.
posted by dash_slot- at 6:49 PM on October 28, 2002

There's kind of a major problem with the claim made in the subtitle: Geiger counters can detect alpha and gamma as well as beta radiation.

Other than that, my predjudice tells me Hal is a jackhole.
posted by shoos at 6:51 PM on October 28, 2002

Great. A Zionist Conspiracy Theory. This is garbage. And there's nothing to refute. If I call the author an "expert" (with scare quotes), does that mean he's refuted? 'Cause that's the only refutation the author has for other experts; that and unsupported assertions. Hell, the author doesn't even give his name, let alone his credentials.

And like I said last time this was posted, that's not a mushroom cloud; it's just a plume of smoke.

Also, can we please stop directing metafilter traffic to this racist nutjob?
posted by mr_roboto at 6:53 PM on October 28, 2002

Hmm... so are the Aussie's part of the conspiracy too? They seem to think it's similar to what was used in Oklahoma City. They even agree that it wasn't C4 as previously thought.
posted by stormy at 7:00 PM on October 28, 2002

The crux of his claim appears to be that Pu-239 only emits alpha radiation. This is true. Once the bomb goes off, all of that 99.78% pure Pu-239 gets transformed into a nasty assortment of fission products which *are* highly radioactive would indeed be easily detected. Game, set, and match.

Not to mention that while a .01 kT bomb is piddling by nuclear weapons standards, it's huge by conventional standards. Nothing would be left standing for at least a block, to say nothing of the people inside the nightclub.
posted by jaek at 7:06 PM on October 28, 2002

Jebus. You obviously don't have enough experience in the subject to see that this is complete crap. Hmm. I wonder what this guy's agenda is.

The Plutonium used in this device was manufactured in Dimora[sic], Negev, Israel. It is held solely by the Israeli Government and thus it is the Israeli Government that is responsible for the Bali blast

Oh of course - it was the Jews who did it.

Actually, if Israel wanted to commit an act of war on "both Bali, Indonesia and Australia" why on earth would they use a nuclear bomb? Haven't they got any conventional explosives?

And needless to say, in reality the effects of the bombing don't have any resemblence to the effects of a nuclear blast. Strangely, it does seem exactly like a conventional truck bomb followed by a big fire. The "evidence" for a nuclear blast (disappearing bodies, a huge crater) is all made up.
posted by riddley at 7:08 PM on October 28, 2002

Two words: Joe Vialls.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 7:11 PM on October 28, 2002

mr. c_d, that is one scary search results page.
posted by BT at 7:17 PM on October 28, 2002

Crapfilter. I want my minutes back. You should be spanked--but on the other hand, I now know better than to click on anything you post.
posted by y2karl at 7:19 PM on October 28, 2002

Could you stop posting shit like this?

I don't know why you need proof that a rabidly antisemitic (and rabidly anti-black and rabidly anti-homosexual) nutjob is creating Big Lies, but his whole scientific premise makes even less sense than his "it's a mushroom cloud, so it's a nuke" theory.

1) A geiger counter can pick up any radiation that can get through its window -- and its window can be more transparent than skin. It detects ionization caused by alpha, beta, gamma, neutron, high-Z, or whatever sort of radiation you can throw at it. Alpha radiation is easily detectible. So is plutonium, for that matter, so it's hardly invisible to a detector. (Duh.)

2) An atom bomb, plutonium or otherwise, depends on a neutron cascade for the chain reaction. These neutrons make objects radioactive (neutron activation) and this is easily detectable, too. So the traces can't conveniently wash away in a monsoon rain.

3) Anyone near a criticality event like that would have had huge doses of radiation. There would be lots of radiation cases, which are easy to recognize... and the Australian doctors are sharp enough to spot somethign like that and Australia has a free enough press that it couldn't be kept a secret.

Now will you shut the fuck up?
posted by ptermit at 7:20 PM on October 28, 2002

What I always wonder about these guys is do they really believe their bullshit or do they just make it up to suit their agenda. Nutjob or fraud?
posted by chris24 at 7:21 PM on October 28, 2002

Ironically, I have some experience in the subject, but just enough to know that he *may* not be lying.

What is that experience? Might it have been in the field of gullibility?
posted by shoos at 7:23 PM on October 28, 2002

I regretted that last comment as I posted it. My apologies to all. But it really pisses me off that you're doing the equivalent of saying, "Well, I'm disavowing the source, but I've heard that there's a copy of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion around that prove that the Jews are controlling the world. Don't attack the messenger -- prove it wrong."
posted by ptermit at 7:23 PM on October 28, 2002

This is ridiculous. How is it that Hal Turner knows the truth, supposedly based on expert opinion derived by looking at photos from a site halfway around the world, while everyone else supposedly denies it? Because they're all part of some vast Jewish conspiracy. Israel wanted to punish Australia for opposing war in Iraq? That's a ridiculous and intellectually empty rhetorical argument: Turn those experts and officials who on the surface would seem to disagree with him onto his side by claiming that they would in fact agree with him if it weren't some convenient "invisible hand" conspiracy theory that just happens to intervene in all the ways that make it possible for him to make such claims in the first place.
posted by risenc at 7:23 PM on October 28, 2002

sew: to practice sewing; to work with needle and thread.
sow: to scatter seed.
posted by quonsar at 7:26 PM on October 28, 2002

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