Swift Boat Veterans' lawyer leaves Bush campaign.
August 25, 2004 9:23 AM   Subscribe

Swift Boat Veterans' lawyer leaves Bush campaign. "I cannot begin to express my sadness that my legal representations have become a distraction from the critical issues at hand in this election," Benjamin Ginsberg wrote in a resignation letter to Bush released by the campaign.

Ginsberg's acknowledgment Tuesday evening that he was providing legal advice to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth marked the second time in days that an individual associated with the Bush-Cheney campaign had been connected to the group, which Kerry accuses of being a front for the Republican incumbent's re-election effort. The Bush campaign and the veterans' group have said repeatedly that there is no coordination. More inside...
posted by andreaazure (36 comments total)

This post was deleted for the following reason: op ed dump



 
Gotta love those 527 groups. I love moveon.org (I used to work for the great Wes Boyd at Berkeley Systems way back in the day) but this whole "campaign finance reform" thing has proven to be nothing more than a shifting of who gets paid.

Argh. Seriously, how many times will Bush-Cheney '04 get caught bending, twisting, ignoring or breaking the rules before something is done?

Oh wait, nothing will be done about it. It isn't like Kerry can score points with this...
posted by andreaazure at 9:25 AM on August 25, 2004


From one Lefty to another... GYOBFW.
posted by mkultra at 10:26 AM on August 25, 2004


mkultra: STFU

andreaazure: thanks for the good post.
posted by bshort at 10:31 AM on August 25, 2004


Enough with the smear tactics, Kerry fans. It's time to focus on the issues.
posted by rocketman at 10:42 AM on August 25, 2004


I suppose the GOP hadn't heard that Kerry will turn the boat into enemy fire when attacked, not turn tail and run.

The emperor has no c loth ojon es.
Ask McCain how cowards attack from behind daddy's legs.
posted by nofundy at 10:44 AM on August 25, 2004


The problem is that the old "6 degrees" rule is much, much smaller at that sort of level. I bet if you tried you could connect the Kerry campaign to "Swift Boat Vets" through any number of shared personal or business ties.

Thats not to say it isn't fishy, just to point out the problem.
posted by soulhuntre at 10:46 AM on August 25, 2004


Oh stop reaching, andreaazure... after all, a group of Veterans SWEARS that Kerry is lying. And they're VETERANS. What other evidence do you need that they're right?

Okay, seriously now: in terms of Bush floggers refusing to let this one die, where now exactly are Glenn "The Plame issue is too complicated. Let's just ignore it" Reynolds and the rest of the Funky Bunch? Are they ready to preserve their credibility and admit this "scandal" is done with now?

It amazes how, as a liberal, I can freely admit to so many of the left wing's overzealous ventures- Dean's campaign, the fringe "Bush knew" loonies, Micah Wright's lying, James Hetfield's quasi-factual Bush biography... yet conservatives have such an amazing loyalty to their ship, not just when it's sinking, but sinking, rat-infested, and on fire.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 10:47 AM on August 25, 2004


after all, a group of Veterans SWEARS that Kerry is lying. And they're VETERANS.

Exactly...and veterans wouldn't lie, would they? Which can mean only one thing: Kerry's lying about being a veteran!
posted by jpoulos at 10:50 AM on August 25, 2004


". . .doesn't distract from the real issues upon which you and the country should be focusing."

Yes, a patterned distraction.
posted by the fire you left me at 10:50 AM on August 25, 2004


It's time to focus on the issues.

Great. You lead off and I'm there.

Employment?
Health Care?
Deficit Spending?
International Relations?
Securing and Building Infrastructure?
Eliminating Unfunded Mandates on Public Schools?
Protecting the Bill of Rights?
Secrecy in Government?
Corporate Welfare?
Offshoring Defense Contractors?

Choose one please. Or think of another.
All winners for ABB.
posted by nofundy at 10:51 AM on August 25, 2004


What's the problem, bshort, too lazy to read the front page of any major newspaper? As if this topic hasn't already been beaten to death. And as amberglow recently stated in a MeTa thread, this entire campaign was well analyzed in this thread, even if the language was difficult to wade through.

And while I'm here, what rocketman said. There are some extremely intelligent voters out there who are utterly appalled by the level of political discourse right now. People are without heathcare, local and state govts are on the verge of bankrupcy, we still aren't safe, real income is in decline, our economy has only gotten worse, oil prices are skyrocketing, THESE ARE REAL ISSUES being ignored because both candidates are too busy pissing on each other.
posted by BlueTrain at 10:52 AM on August 25, 2004


I'll bite, nofundy. How does Kerry plan to reinvigorate our manufacturing sector? Specifics please, none of this "I won't send jobs overseas" bullshit.
posted by BlueTrain at 10:55 AM on August 25, 2004


James Hetfield's quasi-factual Bush biography

"For whom the bell tolls"?
posted by mr.marx at 10:55 AM on August 25, 2004


What a shame.
posted by Witty at 11:00 AM on August 25, 2004


Guh. "Fortunate Son" by J.H. Hetfield. My bad.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 11:07 AM on August 25, 2004


THESE ARE REAL ISSUES being ignored because both candidates are too busy pissing on each other.

Bullshit. Kerry has been talking about the issues for months. He's been forced to defend him against these bogus accusations in the last couple of weeks. There's pissing going on, but it's only coming from one side.

It's very fashionable these days to hate both sides. But the truth is, the two sides are NOT equal.
posted by jpoulos at 11:08 AM on August 25, 2004


How does Kerry plan to reinvigorate our manufacturing sector? Specifics please

Specifics. (pdf)
posted by jpoulos at 11:12 AM on August 25, 2004


but it's only coming from one side.

Funny you say that, because it seems that President Bush had been quoted, prior to these ads, as saying the same thing. Why? Because in overall spending, the 527s opposing Bush are light-years ahead of those opposing Kerry.

BTW, I don't believe that Kerry has been talking specifics. Most of his speeches are stock Democrat prose cooked up from the days of Clinton and Gore.
posted by BlueTrain at 11:15 AM on August 25, 2004


Alternatively, you could go with Bush's plan. Here's the closest thing I could find to a plan, in its entirety:


Creating Jobs – The President acted decisively to help create jobs and get Americans back to work. Just one year after the President signed the Jobs & Growth bill, there is widespread evidence his policies have worked.
posted by jpoulos at 11:15 AM on August 25, 2004


Although thanks for the link(s), I'll read it later tonight.
posted by BlueTrain at 11:18 AM on August 25, 2004


Funny you say that, because it seems that President Bush had been quoted, prior to these ads, as saying the same thing. Why? Because in overall spending, the 527s opposing Bush are light-years ahead of those opposing Kerry.

Until left-leaning 527s started to make some noise, Bush opposed limiting their influence.
posted by jpoulos at 11:24 AM on August 25, 2004


I think what we all need to know and make pefectly clear, is how does this issue impact the fine people of Portugal?
posted by crunchland at 11:25 AM on August 25, 2004


Thank you jpoulos !

I can't believe how many people who think they are being levelheaded and fair about this issue are thinking something like, "If both candidates would just talk issues" .

. . . Um, hello? You've totally fallen for the usual Republican manipulation.

The point of this whole Swift Boat Vetrans thing is to sully Moveon.org and other left and Democrat leaning 527 groups. So instead of saying, "Gee, these Swift Boat characters are CRAZY insane fuckers" the Republicans are trying to manipulate you into simply thiking, "Gee, ALL of these 527 are horrible!". Since it seems that the Dems are getting more support from 527, the Republicans are hoping you associate your disgusted feelings for the slimey Swift Boat Vetrans to ALL 527s and then finally the Dems.

Why do people fall for this kind of manipulation again and again and again?
posted by Boydrop at 11:26 AM on August 25, 2004


"Specifics. (pdf)"

*breaks out in a sweat*

B-b-but he's a flip-flopper!
He didn't earn his medals!
He's manchurian candidate!
Karl, I need some help over here! They're talking issues again!
posted by 2sheets at 11:27 AM on August 25, 2004


When free speech is outlawed, only outlaws will speak freely.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 11:28 AM on August 25, 2004


Bush opposed limiting their influence.

Okay. So what? My point was that not only one side was pissing on the other. It swings both ways, and financially speaking, in Kerry's favor.

Republican manipulation.

Try media manipulation for better ratings and revenue. And a system, until recently, of monopolization of the public's attention (the internet is helping change this).
posted by BlueTrain at 11:34 AM on August 25, 2004


Great comments; here's my follow-up. Want to talk about the real issues? Why bother? The middle 40% (made up percentage) seemingly doesn't care. It is infuriating.

But, if we're going to actually try... lets stick with simple things. They work the best. Lets start with the job growth. Err, lack of job growth -- actual job losses! Something no president has done since World War Two. Even if you want to say "the statistics lie" or "it is all 9/11's fault" or "Clinton left us in a bad way" or any of those things, I say COME ON. Seriously. How bad does it need to get before people actually look at the numbers?
posted by andreaazure at 11:37 AM on August 25, 2004


Speaking of the real issues, here's a great bit of news that's been easy to miss in all the swift boat nonsense: Kerry Calls for Rumsfeld's Resignation
posted by muckster at 11:38 AM on August 25, 2004


MetaTalk
posted by mkultra at 11:42 AM on August 25, 2004


The President acted decisively to help create jobs and get Americans back to work. Just one year after the President signed the Jobs & Growth bill, there is widespread evidence his policies have worked.

It just occurred to me: Doesn't this sound exactly like you write when you're padding your resume?
posted by jpoulos at 11:46 AM on August 25, 2004


Try media manipulation for better ratings and revenue

Well, currently the Repubicans (being in power, better representing corporate media interests, whatever) manipulate the media which manipulates us to a larger degree than the Democrats. . .

My point was that not only one side was pissing on the other. It swings both ways, and financially speaking, in Kerry's favor.

Living in California where we don't see many political ads on television, what specific commercials or speeches that are funded by 527 groups friendly to Kerry equal the level of "pissing" found in the Swift Boat Vetrans ads? What specific ads contain the out right lies (not merely debatable opinions!) of both the SBV ads and the "Kerry voted for raising taxes 5 billion times" ad?

It seems, although I could be way wrong, that the pro Kerry or anti Bush ads are either opinions or roughly fact based whereas almost everything I've seen from the pro Bush side has been a black is white kind of bold lie.

Again, we don't get political ads in California, and I don't have cable, so I could be way off.
posted by Boydrop at 11:54 AM on August 25, 2004


BlueTrain: that's right, when you can't argue the point on its merits, attack the way the point was introduced.

So what if it's on the front page of a major paper's website? It's still interesting, and it's still worth posting.
posted by bshort at 11:56 AM on August 25, 2004


At this point, the Republicans have nothing to lose by lying their asses off. Their base will vote for them no matter what they do. By throwing around bullshit this egregious they force Kerry to respond -- this keeps the focus off the issues because let's face it, the issues are not kind to Bush.

If they manage to convince a few swing voters that there's something in these charges, it's a net gain for them. Because lying is not going to alienate their base -- it hasn't in the last three and a half years, it didn't in the 2000 campaign, why should it now? The lower this thing goes, the more advantage goes to Dubya.
posted by George_Spiggott at 12:02 PM on August 25, 2004


If Olympic swimmer Michael Phelps were running for president against Bush, the Swim Vet Liars would be hysterically whining "dog paddler", "he 'went' in the pool", and "I was there! He wore floaties!!!" about Phelps.

[cartoon by Luckovich - Atlanta Journal Constitution]
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 12:11 PM on August 25, 2004


ding ding ding! George_Spiggott totally nailed it.
posted by jpoulos at 12:11 PM on August 25, 2004


I can't wait to see the debates. True entertainment value.

Moderator: Mr President, what went wrong in the war on terror?
PREZ: Well, umm, gee, let me see, WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE!! OSama is evil.
Moderator: Ok then, Mr Kerry, how do you explain your stance on the apparent flip flopping that your voting record seems to indicate?
Kerry: humma humma humma, I WAS THERE IN NAM, DRIVING TH BOAT MAAAAN!!!
Moderator: Riiiiight, ok then.

Man we are so screwed. I would vote for Gorbachev if we could get him on the ticket in time.

The whole thing with Kerry and his medals from Nam (IMO) is he got carried away with his report writing. He should have been a bit more low key. 3 purple hearts, a bronze star and a silver star in what amount of time? Was he the only one fighting?

When I served, I saw people write their own medal recomendations, it is a practice that is not allowed, but when one's superiors are lazy, that is what you get.
posted by a3matrix at 12:21 PM on August 25, 2004


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