Chomsky on the Israel/Lebanon conflict

August 1, 2006 6:17 PM

Noam Chomsky - Lebanon Israel Facts the Media Isn't Telling You [YouTube] I have found no mention of this in any major media source, I am only posting it because I greatly respect the source. This is my first post, sorry if it's a double. I am now walking away from my computer.
posted by dobie (18 comments total)

This will turn out well, I'm sure of it.
posted by frogan at 6:20 PM on August 1, 2006

FPnR (first post and run).
posted by stbalbach at 6:20 PM on August 1, 2006

Wow, that's a hard listen -- lotsa uhs. That said, I'd heard most of this from other sources, particulary the initial isreali kidnapping which set off the resultant nabbing of the two soldiers. This youtubing makes it easy to refrain from further research, I guess.
posted by undule at 6:25 PM on August 1, 2006

Sorry dobie, double.
posted by Chuckles at 6:26 PM on August 1, 2006

Seems to me like it's mostly/all interpretation of fairly well-known facts - other than the "abduction of 2 Gaza civilians" by Israel on June 24. And my impression is that Israel is pretty constantly arresting people it considers dangerous - so that hardly seems news. So I guess I'm not sure what the Facts the Media Isn't Telling Me Are.
posted by freebird at 6:28 PM on August 1, 2006

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posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:30 PM on August 1, 2006

What's the origional source on the two gazan's being abducted?
posted by delmoi at 6:33 PM on August 1, 2006

I didnt hear any new facts here. He says one thing that hasnt been reported, about the abduction of a doctor and his brother but "we don't know their names". If you dont even know their names, how do you know they were abducted? I suggest that the reason this hasnt been reported is that its not true.
posted by Osmanthus at 6:36 PM on August 1, 2006

I also didn't know that the rockets didn't start until after the Israeli response to the kidnapping. Is that the case? I was under the impression that the rockets had been coming for a while now.
posted by delmoi at 6:40 PM on August 1, 2006

Noam Chomsky's motionless floating head is going me fucking nightmares.
posted by Fidel Cashflow at 6:46 PM on August 1, 2006

My understanding, Delmoi, was that Hizbollah nabbed the two soldiers in order to negotiate a prisoner exchange. Looks like that will go down after all -- tho I am unclear if these prisoners were involved in the initial conflict? Doesn't sound like it, but other articles are rsomewhat oblique about the matter . . .
posted by undule at 6:47 PM on August 1, 2006

My understanding, delmoi, was that Hizbollah nabbed the two soldiers in order to negotiate a prisoner exchange.

Right, I know that but I was under the impression they wanted back prisoners that had been suck in Israel since before their initial withdrawal from Lebanon.
posted by delmoi at 6:50 PM on August 1, 2006

i've only heard the "abduction of 2 Gaza civilians" from Chomsky via the last metafilter thread re: chomsky and lebanon. i don't believe it was ever verified then... maybe someone can find something now?
posted by pokermonk at 6:54 PM on August 1, 2006

I respect Noam Chompsky too... as a linguist. Seriously, transformational linguistics are fascinating. But notice that Chompsky is always the first to react to a controversy with in depth analysis? That's because his analysis always fits a script.

I have my own narrative-- Israel is unstable and the new PM has to look tough in order to solidify his base. But I'm not claiming to have studied the situation in depth, to have analyzed it thoroughly.

Chomsky makes a lot of sense because he is so persuasive, but I really don't trust his use/misuse of facts. It's always a little too pat, a little too simple. I only say this because I really care about progressive politics in the U.S., and I really would like to see peace in the Middle East. You can't/shouldn't be a movement unless you are careful with facts. I think the current administration is a good warning to all sides.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 6:55 PM on August 1, 2006

P.S. prisoner exchanges are pretty common place in the Mid East. They are not talked about, but they happen frequently without this massive response.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 6:56 PM on August 1, 2006

For my non expert ears, Gwynne Dyer's analysis of the situation seems most apt (remainder of this comment originally posted here).

Israel trying to re-establish deterrent

Nasrallah knew that the Israeli retaliation for the kidnapping would fall mainly on innocent Lebanese (because they are much easier targets than his elusive guerillas), but he doesn't care. He had a few surprises up his sleeve, such as longer-range rockets that could strike deep into Israel and radar-guided Silkworm anti-ship missiles to attack the Israeli warships that used to shell the Lebanese coast with impunity. And if he manages to fight Israel to a draw, he will come out of this the most popular Arab leader since Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt.

Gen. Dan Halutz, the Israeli chief of staff, was also spoiling for a fight. His major concern has been that Israel's "deterrent power" has gone into decline, and he wanted to re-establish it. Some Israeli defense analysts, such as Gerald Steinberg, a professor at Bar Ilan University, believe that the plan for the massive strikes against Lebanon has been sitting on the shelf for several years, awaiting a provocation that would justify putting it into effect. But what does "deterrent power" actually mean?

Understand that, and you understand the remarkable savagery of the Israeli attacks on Lebanon. Of course, they are a "disproportionate use of force," as French President Jacques Chirac called them the other day. That is the whole point. Israel's "deterrent power" lies in its demonstrated will to kill and destroy on a vastly greater scale than anybody attacking it can manage. Its enemies must know that if one Israeli is killed, a dozen or even a hundred Arabs will die.

It doesn't seem to be going well for them, which forces them to become ever more vicious. Otherwise, where's the deterent..
posted by Chuckles at 7:01 PM on August 1, 2006

This is like arguing over which kid in the back seat poked which kid first. It doesn't fucking matter.

I'm so over thinking about this because there's no sensible solution when you have people so unwilling to compromise. Is it wrong of me to not give a fuck anymore? Some part of me just wants them to really get it on and pave the fucking place so there will be no more of this insanity anymore.

Currently I'm rooting for Lebanon because they have better food.
posted by jimmythefish at 7:02 PM on August 1, 2006

C'mon. He's crazy!!!!!
Way too much theory and detail.
My mind just can't take that.
This is 'merika dammit. These intellectual types need to be deported to Europe.

I learned all I need to know from Condi. She was on O'Reilly tonight.
posted by pwedza at 7:03 PM on August 1, 2006