Kaboom
February 27, 2007 12:13 AM Subscribe
Dick is clearly Ba'al's special li'l snowflake.
...................
posted by maryh at 12:24 AM on February 27, 2007 [2 favorites]
...................
posted by maryh at 12:24 AM on February 27, 2007 [2 favorites]
VP was ‘safely inside the base,’ official says
Motherfucker.
posted by secret about box at 12:26 AM on February 27, 2007 [5 favorites]
Motherfucker.
posted by secret about box at 12:26 AM on February 27, 2007 [5 favorites]
Also, US ambassador to Sri Lanka injured in mortar attack.
posted by bukharin at 12:28 AM on February 27, 2007
Even if he HAD been blown up, it takes more than simple munitions to kill the Cheney. Believe me.
posted by jonson at 12:36 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by jonson at 12:36 AM on February 27, 2007
Zombie Cheney's undead brain controlling a laser shooting robot spider 80 feet tall.... I'm guessing that's his most speciallest dream. Lord help us when it comes true.
posted by maryh at 12:40 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by maryh at 12:40 AM on February 27, 2007
Women come last in Afghanistan: The war against the Taliban was supposed to have liberated Afghan women, but the reality is that little has changed.
posted by homunculus at 12:42 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by homunculus at 12:42 AM on February 27, 2007
No heart, no guts, no spine, no balls, no brains: there's no way on can kill people like him. They're the human version of Turritopsis nutricula.
posted by elgilito at 12:48 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by elgilito at 12:48 AM on February 27, 2007
hee hee?
19 others died. I hate Cheney too, but...
posted by imperium at 12:56 AM on February 27, 2007 [5 favorites]
19 others died. I hate Cheney too, but...
posted by imperium at 12:56 AM on February 27, 2007 [5 favorites]
Watching Afghanistan fall: Stationed with a battle-scarred U.S. Army troop in the mountain region where Osama bin Laden supposedly hides, with the insurgency on the rise, I witnessed why the other war is going to hell.
posted by homunculus at 12:57 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by homunculus at 12:57 AM on February 27, 2007
He wasn’t near the site of the explosion.
Then I guess it's no surprise that he was unharmed.
posted by inconsequentialist at 1:01 AM on February 27, 2007
Then I guess it's no surprise that he was unharmed.
posted by inconsequentialist at 1:01 AM on February 27, 2007
Apart from the fact that 19 other people tragically lost their lives, this is the worst possible thing that could happen at a time when the Democrats are seeing a resurgence.
Watch as FOX and all the usual suspects whip the public into a pro-Republican frenzy with rhetoric like "They tried to kill our Vice-President! Now more than ever we gotta take these bastards down!"
Interesting side note: It takes, like, forever for the news of Cheney shooting a dude in the face to get out, but takes minutes for the news that Cheney was near a bomb blast that didn't even scratch him to hit the press.
posted by Effigy2000 at 1:04 AM on February 27, 2007 [2 favorites]
Watch as FOX and all the usual suspects whip the public into a pro-Republican frenzy with rhetoric like "They tried to kill our Vice-President! Now more than ever we gotta take these bastards down!"
Interesting side note: It takes, like, forever for the news of Cheney shooting a dude in the face to get out, but takes minutes for the news that Cheney was near a bomb blast that didn't even scratch him to hit the press.
posted by Effigy2000 at 1:04 AM on February 27, 2007 [2 favorites]
He was at the wrong place at the wrong time.
posted by chillmost at 1:05 AM on February 27, 2007 [6 favorites]
posted by chillmost at 1:05 AM on February 27, 2007 [6 favorites]
Maj. William Mitchell said it did not appear the explosion was intended as a threat to the vice president.
Of course it wasn't; it was just an ordinary day in a country where America is loosing a war.
posted by three blind mice at 1:07 AM on February 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
Of course it wasn't; it was just an ordinary day in a country where America is loosing a war.
posted by three blind mice at 1:07 AM on February 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
I was hee heeing at Team America...not that people were killed.
posted by GavinR at 1:15 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by GavinR at 1:15 AM on February 27, 2007
Al Qaeda Chiefs Are Seen to Regain Power
Surprise!
posted by homunculus at 1:16 AM on February 27, 2007
Surprise!
posted by homunculus at 1:16 AM on February 27, 2007
He probably came closer to harm when he came to Sydney last week...
posted by cholly at 1:22 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by cholly at 1:22 AM on February 27, 2007
The real question, I suppose, is whether Cheney will come away from the front-lines of his war hawkish or humbled.
I suppose it could go either way, but if he's somehow redoubled in his convictions he may need some intervention – as if Baker-led 'Study Groups' and Rumsfeld's ejection weren't enough...
posted by vhsiv at 1:25 AM on February 27, 2007
I suppose it could go either way, but if he's somehow redoubled in his convictions he may need some intervention – as if Baker-led 'Study Groups' and Rumsfeld's ejection weren't enough...
posted by vhsiv at 1:25 AM on February 27, 2007
Humbled is not an option.
posted by maryh at 1:28 AM on February 27, 2007 [4 favorites]
posted by maryh at 1:28 AM on February 27, 2007 [4 favorites]
vhsiv: "The real question, I suppose, is whether Cheney will come away from the front-lines of his war hawkish or humbled."
A humble Cheney would make my head asplode.
posted by Effigy2000 at 1:28 AM on February 27, 2007
A humble Cheney would make my head asplode.
posted by Effigy2000 at 1:28 AM on February 27, 2007
A humble Cheney would make my head asplode.
Can we get him near the blast this time, for fuck's sake?
posted by secret about box at 1:32 AM on February 27, 2007 [5 favorites]
Can we get him near the blast this time, for fuck's sake?
posted by secret about box at 1:32 AM on February 27, 2007 [5 favorites]
In an alternate universe:
Cheney gets killed. US swears revenge, blames and bombs Iceland.
posted by homodigitalis at 1:41 AM on February 27, 2007 [4 favorites]
Cheney gets killed. US swears revenge, blames and bombs Iceland.
posted by homodigitalis at 1:41 AM on February 27, 2007 [4 favorites]
I am sorry for the others, it's a tragic thing. But there's another tragedy, and that's that they missed.
this is in no way a threat, veiled or otherwise, against the VP. Thank you. even though he's a dick.
posted by exlotuseater at 1:41 AM on February 27, 2007
this is in no way a threat, veiled or otherwise, against the VP. Thank you. even though he's a dick.
posted by exlotuseater at 1:41 AM on February 27, 2007
You are all fools. You realize had this succeeded, that it would be Gleiwitz all over again, and before you know it the US would have declared it's pretext and gotten on with the bombing of Iran. Thank your stars that Cheney lives. For now.
posted by chlorus at 1:42 AM on February 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by chlorus at 1:42 AM on February 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
Wait a minute. You mean ol' Dead Eye Dick didn't come bustin' outta the base gates with a hunting rifle in each hand and pepper 'em good? By god, pepper 'em pretty good?
Yeah, I know it was a suicide bomber, but hell, there must've been somebody just outside the gate that he could've peppered. By god.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 1:55 AM on February 27, 2007 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I know it was a suicide bomber, but hell, there must've been somebody just outside the gate that he could've peppered. By god.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 1:55 AM on February 27, 2007 [2 favorites]
I have to agree with chlorus here, if Cheney had been injured or killed it would have been a great excuse to escalate the war. People who were becoming less happy with the war would be "reminded" of how terrible the Taliban is, and would go back to supporting the war. It would be about revenge. As it is now, as Effigy2000 already said, we're going to see the talking heads use this situation for pro-conservative rhetoric.
It's just a sad day when people are so disgusted with their own government that they express disappointment that the Taliban didn't manage to kill our own Vice President. That alone speaks volumes.
posted by smashingstars at 2:01 AM on February 27, 2007 [3 favorites]
It's just a sad day when people are so disgusted with their own government that they express disappointment that the Taliban didn't manage to kill our own Vice President. That alone speaks volumes.
posted by smashingstars at 2:01 AM on February 27, 2007 [3 favorites]
Also, what's wrong with your political culture depends on more than this or that politician. One dead Cheney would leaved you as fucked as ever. The true victory over shits of his stripe is to build something better and make it work and make him live in it.
posted by Abiezer at 2:06 AM on February 27, 2007 [5 favorites]
posted by Abiezer at 2:06 AM on February 27, 2007 [5 favorites]
First, you take out the SCV's, then you go in with the infested Terrans.
posted by redteam at 2:17 AM on February 27, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by redteam at 2:17 AM on February 27, 2007 [2 favorites]
I have to agree with chlorus here, if Cheney had been injured or killed it would have been a great excuse to escalate the war
Now wait a minute, this was in Afghanistan. If there is a war we should be fighting, it is against al-Quaeda and their supporters in the Taliban.
What's interesting here is that the Taliban learned of Cheney's visit, and were able to make an assassination attempt. Isn't the VP supposed to be shrouded in a black cloud of "undisclosed location" security?
posted by moonbiter at 2:45 AM on February 27, 2007
Now wait a minute, this was in Afghanistan. If there is a war we should be fighting, it is against al-Quaeda and their supporters in the Taliban.
What's interesting here is that the Taliban learned of Cheney's visit, and were able to make an assassination attempt. Isn't the VP supposed to be shrouded in a black cloud of "undisclosed location" security?
posted by moonbiter at 2:45 AM on February 27, 2007
moonbiter writes: Isn't the VP supposed to be shrouded in a black cloud of "undisclosed location" security?
You're forgetting, the country of Afghanistan is the very definition of "undisclosed location". Only the Afghanis themselves really even know where it is. Therefore, they knew where the veep was.
Maybe they'll get him next time...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:40 AM on February 27, 2007
You're forgetting, the country of Afghanistan is the very definition of "undisclosed location". Only the Afghanis themselves really even know where it is. Therefore, they knew where the veep was.
Maybe they'll get him next time...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:40 AM on February 27, 2007
Y'see, I've always been of the opinion that if you don't want to run the risk of getting blown up, you should avoid going to places where people hate you and want to blow you up. Oh, and once you've figured out where those places are where people want to blow you up, maybe you can even be a nice guy and not make other people go to other blowy-up places.
I wonder what lessons Cheney will learn from this whole thing?
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:44 AM on February 27, 2007
I wonder what lessons Cheney will learn from this whole thing?
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:44 AM on February 27, 2007
Guess we shouldn't have half-assed our intervention in Afghanistan before wandering off to Iraq, eh?
Typically, half-assing our way in Iraq will probably result in these incompetent boobs attempting to wander into Iran.
If there is a plan, and it is producing the results they want, I have to wonder whose side this administration is on.
posted by dglynn at 3:48 AM on February 27, 2007
Typically, half-assing our way in Iraq will probably result in these incompetent boobs attempting to wander into Iran.
If there is a plan, and it is producing the results they want, I have to wonder whose side this administration is on.
posted by dglynn at 3:48 AM on February 27, 2007
If there is a plan, and it is producing the results they want, I have to wonder whose side this administration is on.
They're on the side of Endless War as a tool toward Endless Power and Endless Profit. And so far, they're winning big.
posted by wendell at 3:58 AM on February 27, 2007 [2 favorites]
They're on the side of Endless War as a tool toward Endless Power and Endless Profit. And so far, they're winning big.
posted by wendell at 3:58 AM on February 27, 2007 [2 favorites]
Effigy 2000 writes Watch as FOX and all the usual suspects whip the public into a pro-Republican frenzy with rhetoric like "They tried to kill our Vice-President! Now more than ever we gotta take these bastards down!"
Possibly. Probably. But Americans have turned against the occupation of Iraq, and this could also be a signal that since 9/11, nothing of geopolitical value has been accomplished by this administration.
Fixing Afghanistan, even part of it, would have been a success all around. But these guys can't even do that much. They're just so utterly incompetent.
posted by bardic at 4:03 AM on February 27, 2007
Possibly. Probably. But Americans have turned against the occupation of Iraq, and this could also be a signal that since 9/11, nothing of geopolitical value has been accomplished by this administration.
Fixing Afghanistan, even part of it, would have been a success all around. But these guys can't even do that much. They're just so utterly incompetent.
posted by bardic at 4:03 AM on February 27, 2007
One more thing, I can be as "shrill" a liberal here as anybody, but those of you who are 'sorry' Cheney hasn't been turned into a martyr are fucking idiots.
posted by wendell at 4:05 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by wendell at 4:05 AM on February 27, 2007
Note to all traveling heads of state: You put people in danger when you want to visit the frontlines.
PS- Afghanistan is not as secure as we thought.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:10 AM on February 27, 2007
PS- Afghanistan is not as secure as we thought.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:10 AM on February 27, 2007
I've always been of the opinion that if you don't want to run the risk of getting blown up
Sir, I believe you misspelled blowed up
posted by kcds at 4:14 AM on February 27, 2007
Sir, I believe you misspelled blowed up
posted by kcds at 4:14 AM on February 27, 2007
What wendell said. I wrote a song the other day about this exact idea, and posted it to MeFi Music. It's here for anyone who wants to hear it.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:46 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:46 AM on February 27, 2007
A man, a plan, a bomb, Afghanistan.
posted by Astro Zombie at 5:13 AM on February 27, 2007 [7 favorites]
posted by Astro Zombie at 5:13 AM on February 27, 2007 [7 favorites]
I don't understand why the Taliban would do such a thing. Don't they realize it would bring aid and comfort to their ememy?
posted by spock at 5:17 AM on February 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by spock at 5:17 AM on February 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
You pray for the Vice President to be harmed by terrorists? That's sick. Seriously. It's one thing to dislike politicians or to disagree with political decisions, but praying or hoping for someone's murder (or even joking about praying for the murder) means you have serious issues.
posted by Slap Factory at 5:22 AM on February 27, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by Slap Factory at 5:22 AM on February 27, 2007 [2 favorites]
Just for the record, I also wasn't blown up. But thanks for the concern, guys.
And a big "fuck you" to Cheney for coming here - the last two days getting back from work have been a massive pain in the ass with all the streets downtown closed off.
posted by Meatbomb at 5:22 AM on February 27, 2007 [2 favorites]
And a big "fuck you" to Cheney for coming here - the last two days getting back from work have been a massive pain in the ass with all the streets downtown closed off.
posted by Meatbomb at 5:22 AM on February 27, 2007 [2 favorites]
I think we ought to send in more troops to secure Afghanistan. Is there any reason we can't do that?
posted by norm at 5:23 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by norm at 5:23 AM on February 27, 2007
I don't think fearless Nancy could handle this...
posted by wallstreet1929 at 5:28 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by wallstreet1929 at 5:28 AM on February 27, 2007
I think we ought to send in more troops to secure Afghanistan. Is there any reason we can't do that?
They're way ahead of you.
posted by EarBucket at 5:35 AM on February 27, 2007
They're way ahead of you.
posted by EarBucket at 5:35 AM on February 27, 2007
Watch as FOX and all the usual suspects whip the public into a pro-Republican frenzy with rhetoric like "They tried to kill our Vice-President! Now more than ever we gotta take these bastards down!"
Dude, the guy's got a 19% approval raiting. Besides, this happened in Afghanistan the war everyone was supposed to like, and the war lots of leftwing bloggers chastise the administration for not prosecuting effectively. If they did whip up the US population for a redoubled effort in Afghanistan then they would have to pull troops out of Iraq anyway.
posted by delmoi at 5:36 AM on February 27, 2007
Dude, the guy's got a 19% approval raiting. Besides, this happened in Afghanistan the war everyone was supposed to like, and the war lots of leftwing bloggers chastise the administration for not prosecuting effectively. If they did whip up the US population for a redoubled effort in Afghanistan then they would have to pull troops out of Iraq anyway.
posted by delmoi at 5:36 AM on February 27, 2007
Yeah, here's a short-list of what we, as Americans, do not need:
1) Dick Cheney, Noble Martyr to Freedom.
(cue montage: the Cheney Building, Cheney Int'l Airport, the Cheney memorial gardens (formerly the Rose Garden), the Cheney quarter...)
So, let's just wait until either karma or the vengeful God of the Old Testament makes things right.
posted by the sobsister at 5:37 AM on February 27, 2007
1) Dick Cheney, Noble Martyr to Freedom.
(cue montage: the Cheney Building, Cheney Int'l Airport, the Cheney memorial gardens (formerly the Rose Garden), the Cheney quarter...)
So, let's just wait until either karma or the vengeful God of the Old Testament makes things right.
posted by the sobsister at 5:37 AM on February 27, 2007
Quick, send Dubya and Condi to investigate.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 5:38 AM on February 27, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by Benny Andajetz at 5:38 AM on February 27, 2007 [2 favorites]
I'm actually wondering how much the Taliban actually knew of Cheney's visit beforehand. If they knew, surely they would've wanted to send something slightly better prepared, and more likely to succeed - after all, the linked article alludes to how difficult it would be to get through the base to where Cheney was.
Seems more like them jumping on the fact that he was there after the event, than a plan to kill him before.
posted by djgh at 5:40 AM on February 27, 2007
Seems more like them jumping on the fact that he was there after the event, than a plan to kill him before.
posted by djgh at 5:40 AM on February 27, 2007
Slap Factory: The longing for justice is part of being human. You're either unhuman or practicing wingnut rhetoric.
This is a guy who drinks the blood of children. Children! And no, I did not read it on the internet, nor would I believe it if I did. I heard it on the radio, and that proves it. Don't you care about the children? What kind of unhuman beast are you, anyway?
posted by Goofyy at 5:42 AM on February 27, 2007
This is a guy who drinks the blood of children. Children! And no, I did not read it on the internet, nor would I believe it if I did. I heard it on the radio, and that proves it. Don't you care about the children? What kind of unhuman beast are you, anyway?
posted by Goofyy at 5:42 AM on February 27, 2007
I think we ought to send in more troops to secure Afghanistan. Is there any reason we can't do that?
They're busy with the real war down in Iraq. We have troops in Afghanistan just so we can claim to be fighting terrorism. I thought that was clear?
I've always wondered if one of the unspoken reasons the VP and the P fly to these areas isn't to taunt the ter'ists and goad them into trying to hit the bigwigs. Sure would gin-up support for the war at home if a little shrapnel were to land near Cheney's feet.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:44 AM on February 27, 2007
They're busy with the real war down in Iraq. We have troops in Afghanistan just so we can claim to be fighting terrorism. I thought that was clear?
I've always wondered if one of the unspoken reasons the VP and the P fly to these areas isn't to taunt the ter'ists and goad them into trying to hit the bigwigs. Sure would gin-up support for the war at home if a little shrapnel were to land near Cheney's feet.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:44 AM on February 27, 2007
Goofyy: Yeah, I think this was a poke in the eye at base security by some guys who understand operational planning but not how to take out an infrastructure. I wonder how many terrs look at stuff like this with an eye toward lessons learned.
Gotta hand it to W., Dick and Co. They've certainly managed to add to the reasons to be paranoid...
posted by pax digita at 5:50 AM on February 27, 2007
Gotta hand it to W., Dick and Co. They've certainly managed to add to the reasons to be paranoid...
posted by pax digita at 5:50 AM on February 27, 2007
Have we really gotten to the point in this country since 9/11 when the Vice President was targetted for death by a terrorist attack by the people who perpetrated it--- Real, Honest-To-God, Enemies of America and we aren't sure who to root for?
posted by empath at 5:51 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by empath at 5:51 AM on February 27, 2007
I wonder what lessons Cheney will learn from this whole thing?"Bomb more towelheads".
posted by Flunkie at 5:55 AM on February 27, 2007
Have we really gotten to the point in this country since 9/11 when the Vice President was targetted for death by a terrorist attack by the people who perpetrated it--- Real, Honest-To-God, Enemies of America and we aren't sure who to root for?
In short, yes. Wrongheaded, but yes. But, remember, you don't have to be a foreigner to be an enemy of America.
And: If you kill me in my yard, shame on you. If you kill me because I'm mucking around in your yard, shame on me.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:00 AM on February 27, 2007
In short, yes. Wrongheaded, but yes. But, remember, you don't have to be a foreigner to be an enemy of America.
And: If you kill me in my yard, shame on you. If you kill me because I'm mucking around in your yard, shame on me.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:00 AM on February 27, 2007
Note to all traveling heads of state: You put people in danger when you want to visit the frontlines.
Yes. That's the real tragedy here. I doubt Cheney really needed to be there, and what he did by making an appearance was needlessly cause death and injury to those who have to guard outside the walls every day.
This is, of course, assuming that he was the intended target and that this wasn't coincidental.
posted by rollbiz at 6:09 AM on February 27, 2007
Yes. That's the real tragedy here. I doubt Cheney really needed to be there, and what he did by making an appearance was needlessly cause death and injury to those who have to guard outside the walls every day.
This is, of course, assuming that he was the intended target and that this wasn't coincidental.
posted by rollbiz at 6:09 AM on February 27, 2007
/derail
FWIW, this is all a tad more personal these days and the levity's a bit harder to come by at times.
I work with the mom of one of the guys who survived this...
...in addition to which, two onetime parishioners at my church were killed in Iraq last year.
posted by pax digita at 6:11 AM on February 27, 2007
FWIW, this is all a tad more personal these days and the levity's a bit harder to come by at times.
I work with the mom of one of the guys who survived this...
...in addition to which, two onetime parishioners at my church were killed in Iraq last year.
posted by pax digita at 6:11 AM on February 27, 2007
Empath: Is that the editorial we? I know who I am rooting for. As I see it, 85% of the commenters on this post are head cases (or, giving them the benefit of the doubt, Europeans) who have lost the ability to separate political disagreement from vilification and fantasized violence.
Anyone who roots for the murder of the Vice President, or who opposes the murder of the Vice President only because it might be considered a moral victory for their perceived political adversaries, has issues. If that's how you think, you need a time-out from the internet.
Seriously. Go do some sauntering through the woods or spend some time with your family. Find an enjoyable hobby that does not involve sharp objects. Whatever it takes to regain a little bit of your humanity and inch back from the brink of sicko extremism.
posted by Slap Factory at 6:15 AM on February 27, 2007 [3 favorites]
Anyone who roots for the murder of the Vice President, or who opposes the murder of the Vice President only because it might be considered a moral victory for their perceived political adversaries, has issues. If that's how you think, you need a time-out from the internet.
Seriously. Go do some sauntering through the woods or spend some time with your family. Find an enjoyable hobby that does not involve sharp objects. Whatever it takes to regain a little bit of your humanity and inch back from the brink of sicko extremism.
posted by Slap Factory at 6:15 AM on February 27, 2007 [3 favorites]
Anyone who roots for the murder of the Vice President, or who opposes the murder of the Vice President only because it might be considered a moral victory for their perceived political adversaries, has issues.
How about because he is personally responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands in Iraq, and has personally profited from those deaths. How about because he lied to get us into that war, and continues to lie, and people continue to die, and he continues to profit.
He couldn't be any guiltier if he killed them himself, by hand, and then rifled through their pockets for change. I'm against the death penalty, and I would never call for Cheney's murder, but were it to happen it would have been something more like poetic justice.
posted by Astro Zombie at 6:24 AM on February 27, 2007 [4 favorites]
How about because he is personally responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands in Iraq, and has personally profited from those deaths. How about because he lied to get us into that war, and continues to lie, and people continue to die, and he continues to profit.
He couldn't be any guiltier if he killed them himself, by hand, and then rifled through their pockets for change. I'm against the death penalty, and I would never call for Cheney's murder, but were it to happen it would have been something more like poetic justice.
posted by Astro Zombie at 6:24 AM on February 27, 2007 [4 favorites]
vhsiv writes "The real question, I suppose, is whether Cheney will come away from the front-lines of his war hawkish or humbled."
This would imply that Cheney gives a shit whether anyone but himself gets harmed or killed. I think we all know the answer to that question already.
posted by clevershark at 6:25 AM on February 27, 2007
This would imply that Cheney gives a shit whether anyone but himself gets harmed or killed. I think we all know the answer to that question already.
posted by clevershark at 6:25 AM on February 27, 2007
Anyone who roots for the murder of the Vice President, or who opposes the murder of the Vice President only because it might be considered a moral victory for their perceived political adversaries, has issues. If that's how you think, you need a time-out from the internet.
Murder is always wrong.
It was wrong when they put a rope around Saddam Hussein's neck and murdered him, but that didn't stop pro-life red meat Republicans from cheering.
posted by three blind mice at 6:26 AM on February 27, 2007
Murder is always wrong.
It was wrong when they put a rope around Saddam Hussein's neck and murdered him, but that didn't stop pro-life red meat Republicans from cheering.
posted by three blind mice at 6:26 AM on February 27, 2007
Cheney fosters sicko extremism every time his name is mentioned.
I think he prefers it that way.
posted by Balisong at 6:27 AM on February 27, 2007
I think he prefers it that way.
posted by Balisong at 6:27 AM on February 27, 2007
I know who I am rooting for.
Me, too. I love my country. But I'm an adult and I know "my country, right or wrong" is so much horseshit. Citizens have the responsibility of calling their leaders on bad policy.
No one is rooting for the murder of the VP - especially for political reasons. But if you "root" for the destruction of tens of thousands people, you can't get righteously indignant when they fight back. Live by the sword ...
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:31 AM on February 27, 2007
Me, too. I love my country. But I'm an adult and I know "my country, right or wrong" is so much horseshit. Citizens have the responsibility of calling their leaders on bad policy.
No one is rooting for the murder of the VP - especially for political reasons. But if you "root" for the destruction of tens of thousands people, you can't get righteously indignant when they fight back. Live by the sword ...
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:31 AM on February 27, 2007
Having Cheney die today would have been one of those rare and delightful cases where a problem resolves itself. Alas.
posted by CautionToTheWind at 6:33 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by CautionToTheWind at 6:33 AM on February 27, 2007
I'm actually wondering how much the Taliban actually knew of Cheney's visit beforehand.
I'm sure they knew plenty. Official policy is now, in order to thwart Shia Iran, we back Sunni madmen. The same ones who screamed "God" and flew into buildings in NYC.
I don't think this was staged. But if it was, it was by the people who are supposed to "save us."
Impeach. These fuckers can't even stage a good photo-op. Impeach.
posted by bardic at 6:34 AM on February 27, 2007
I'm sure they knew plenty. Official policy is now, in order to thwart Shia Iran, we back Sunni madmen. The same ones who screamed "God" and flew into buildings in NYC.
I don't think this was staged. But if it was, it was by the people who are supposed to "save us."
Impeach. These fuckers can't even stage a good photo-op. Impeach.
posted by bardic at 6:34 AM on February 27, 2007
Anyone who roots for the murder of the Vice President, or who opposes the murder of the Vice President only because it might be considered a moral victory for their perceived political adversaries, has issues. If that's how you think, you need a time-out from the internet.
Misquoting someone - I wish harm to no man, but there are some obituaries that I wouldn't mind reading.
Do I spend time wishing Dick Cheney dead? No.
Would I rend my clothes in grief if it happened? No - I think his absence would make the world a better place.
Can you honestly say that you can't think of anyone whose death would make the world a better place? Would you mourn that person? Pretend to be sad that they're gone?
posted by qldaddy at 6:40 AM on February 27, 2007
Misquoting someone - I wish harm to no man, but there are some obituaries that I wouldn't mind reading.
Do I spend time wishing Dick Cheney dead? No.
Would I rend my clothes in grief if it happened? No - I think his absence would make the world a better place.
Can you honestly say that you can't think of anyone whose death would make the world a better place? Would you mourn that person? Pretend to be sad that they're gone?
posted by qldaddy at 6:40 AM on February 27, 2007
"I wonder what lessons Cheney will learn from this whole thing?"
"I must be doing something right for them to want me dead."
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:41 AM on February 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
"I must be doing something right for them to want me dead."
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:41 AM on February 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
praying or hoping for someone's murder (or even joking about praying for the murder) means you have serious issues.
I could not agree more. Thank you for posting, SF.
posted by popechunk at 6:42 AM on February 27, 2007
I could not agree more. Thank you for posting, SF.
posted by popechunk at 6:42 AM on February 27, 2007
Politically, I would like to see Cheney tried for crimes against humanity and sentenced to spend the rest of his life in an 8x10 cell. The problems -- in the US, in Iraq, and around the world -- go so much deeper than Cheney that his death would only complicate things, while a trial would go a long way toward exposing the crimes of the Bush administration and the whole US imperial project.
Personally, while I'm not rooting for the guy to get offed, I wouldn't shed a tear. There are far, far too many people more worthy of sympathy.
posted by graymouser at 6:45 AM on February 27, 2007
Personally, while I'm not rooting for the guy to get offed, I wouldn't shed a tear. There are far, far too many people more worthy of sympathy.
posted by graymouser at 6:45 AM on February 27, 2007
No one is rooting for the murder of the VP - especially for political reasons.
- "Yet more proof that prayer does not work."
- "Motherfucker."
- "Aww, too bad."
- "Can we get him near the blast this time, for fuck's sake?"
- "But there's another tragedy, and that's that they missed."
- "Having Cheney die today would have been one of those rare and delightful cases where a problem resolves itself. Alas."
My brother-in-laws' brother was a sociopath. He did shit like get a DUI and give the police my brother in laws name and social security number when he got pulled over. He stole, he conned people, etc, etc.
One day, while in a high speed chase, he drove into oncoming traffic and caused a head on collision, killing himself and a family of two.
It was a tragedy that he killed other people on the way out, and I'd have prefered that he would have been arrested and tried and put in jail, but I wasn't upset that he was dead because he would at least stop fucking up the lives of people that I cared about. I think I'd feel the same way about Cheney being killed this way. Except he'd be stopped from fucking up the country that I care about.
Though I'd prefer him to be impeached and tried for treason and crimes against humanity, I wouldn't shed a tear for him if he were killed.
posted by empath at 6:46 AM on February 27, 2007
One day, while in a high speed chase, he drove into oncoming traffic and caused a head on collision, killing himself and a family of two.
It was a tragedy that he killed other people on the way out, and I'd have prefered that he would have been arrested and tried and put in jail, but I wasn't upset that he was dead because he would at least stop fucking up the lives of people that I cared about. I think I'd feel the same way about Cheney being killed this way. Except he'd be stopped from fucking up the country that I care about.
Though I'd prefer him to be impeached and tried for treason and crimes against humanity, I wouldn't shed a tear for him if he were killed.
posted by empath at 6:46 AM on February 27, 2007
The Bush Administration is funneling money to Al Qaeda and I'm rooting for the Taliban to get Cheney. This is getting seriously fucking awesome at this point. Let's continue in this direction, I can't even extrapolate a hypothetical scenario about what comes next for the sake of making a funny.
posted by The Straightener at 6:46 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by The Straightener at 6:46 AM on February 27, 2007
As I see it, 85% of the commenters on this post are head cases (or, giving them the benefit of the doubt, Europeans)
Nobody fucking cares how you see it
posted by prostyle at 6:47 AM on February 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
Nobody fucking cares how you see it
posted by prostyle at 6:47 AM on February 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
So if Dick Cheney had died, who's next in command? Is it George W. Bush? I forget how the line of succession works... Anybody?
posted by Bugg at 7:03 AM on February 27, 2007 [4 favorites]
posted by Bugg at 7:03 AM on February 27, 2007 [4 favorites]
So if Dick Cheney had died, who's next in command? Is it George W. Bush? I forget how the line of succession works... Anybody?
Bugg, I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think his Hellhound is next in line.
posted by contessa at 7:07 AM on February 27, 2007 [3 favorites]
Bugg, I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think his Hellhound is next in line.
posted by contessa at 7:07 AM on February 27, 2007 [3 favorites]
However, a purported Taliban spokesman, Qari Yousef Ahmadi, said Cheney was the target.Such a casual conversation - if only there was a full transcript. "Yeah, we're kind of disappointed he didn't manage to pull it off, but he was a good guy, you know? Always gave it his all. We're gonna miss him."
“We knew that Dick Cheney would be staying inside the base,” Ahmadi told AP via telephone from an undisclosed location. “The attacker was trying to reach Cheney.”
Also, how does one lineup a semi-anonymous phone call with the AP? Do they have a number listed for these sorts of things?
posted by Remy at 7:19 AM on February 27, 2007
So if Dick Cheney had died, who's next in command? Is it George W. Bush? I forget how the line of succession works... Anybody?
Pelosi would then be VP, but one would expect she would follow Carl Albert's precedent and decline the vice-presidency. Bush would then nominate a new VP to be confirmed by the Senate per the 25th Amendment.
posted by dw at 7:26 AM on February 27, 2007
Pelosi would then be VP, but one would expect she would follow Carl Albert's precedent and decline the vice-presidency. Bush would then nominate a new VP to be confirmed by the Senate per the 25th Amendment.
posted by dw at 7:26 AM on February 27, 2007
Oops. Both houses of Congress would have to approve a nomination to fill a vice presidential vacancy.
posted by dw at 7:28 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by dw at 7:28 AM on February 27, 2007
First, you take out the SCV's, then you go in with the infested Terrans.
Good thing I wasn't drinking milk! Good show!
posted by Scoo at 7:32 AM on February 27, 2007
Good thing I wasn't drinking milk! Good show!
posted by Scoo at 7:32 AM on February 27, 2007
It would be some neocon troglodyte with presidential ambitions. IOW, worse than Cheney. Keep the old man alive.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 7:38 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by Saucy Intruder at 7:38 AM on February 27, 2007
Isn't the VP supposed to be shrouded in a black cloud of "undisclosed location" security?
posted by moonbiter
Not this time. This is the official "Doctor Evil Tour."
I think his Hellhound is next in line
We have a winner!!
I did hear he has a full contingent of Dementors and Sauron sent an entire division for security on this tour so no worries.
posted by nofundy at 7:38 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by moonbiter
Not this time. This is the official "Doctor Evil Tour."
I think his Hellhound is next in line
We have a winner!!
I did hear he has a full contingent of Dementors and Sauron sent an entire division for security on this tour so no worries.
posted by nofundy at 7:38 AM on February 27, 2007
If Cheney got greased, maybe some bad stuff would stop, but it's not like I'd feel like doing handsprings over yet another dead body.
posted by pax digita at 7:41 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by pax digita at 7:41 AM on February 27, 2007
As I see it, 85% of the commenters on this post are head cases (or, giving them the benefit of the doubt, Europeans)
And you're unaware of the implicit irony in your statement, i.e., "Well, yes, I can see how *Europeans* might want him dead. But any American who thinks that ..."
I can't imagine shedding a tear if anything happened to Bush or Cheney. And I am quite aware, thank you, of how sad that is. But I just can't see mourning someone who has done such irreparable harm to my country.
I would probably throw up a little in my mouth seeing them turned into martyrs to their cause - the endless religious/oil war from which only the likes of Haliburton are benefitting.
My deepest sympathy to all those who did die.
posted by NorthernLite at 7:44 AM on February 27, 2007
And you're unaware of the implicit irony in your statement, i.e., "Well, yes, I can see how *Europeans* might want him dead. But any American who thinks that ..."
I can't imagine shedding a tear if anything happened to Bush or Cheney. And I am quite aware, thank you, of how sad that is. But I just can't see mourning someone who has done such irreparable harm to my country.
I would probably throw up a little in my mouth seeing them turned into martyrs to their cause - the endless religious/oil war from which only the likes of Haliburton are benefitting.
My deepest sympathy to all those who did die.
posted by NorthernLite at 7:44 AM on February 27, 2007
Leaving aside the inevitable MeFi political fight above, rense.com is a terrible source for a FPP.
posted by blahblahblah at 7:51 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by blahblahblah at 7:51 AM on February 27, 2007
lol we're all head cases guys, some nameless dude on the internet told us so!
posted by quarter waters and a bag of chips at 7:54 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by quarter waters and a bag of chips at 7:54 AM on February 27, 2007
oooh, amateur shrinks/moralists came all the way here to tell us that we who would not mourn cheney "have issues." tell ya what - i believe medical marijuana would be helpful to me in resolving these issues, so if any of you are real doctors...otherwise, fuck off.
posted by bruce at 7:58 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by bruce at 7:58 AM on February 27, 2007
The UnDead™ cannot be killed.
Carry on.
posted by dbiedny at 8:14 AM on February 27, 2007 [2 favorites]
Carry on.
posted by dbiedny at 8:14 AM on February 27, 2007 [2 favorites]
Seeing how this administration is pathologically stuck with it's head up it's arse, Iran, France (sorta the same thing in AEI/Neocon circle jerks n'est pas?) or hell even Iceland should be very very grateful that the VP was unhurt.
posted by Skygazer at 8:25 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by Skygazer at 8:25 AM on February 27, 2007
Wow, a lot of people really don't like the Vice-President. Wouldn't it be weird if Obama or Hillary won the nomination, and Cheney won for the republicans, but because so many Americans are latently sexist and racist that the elected Cheney?
I wonder, if he was elected President, and this many people hate him, how close would we get to a civil war?
posted by Pastabagel at 8:37 AM on February 27, 2007
I wonder, if he was elected President, and this many people hate him, how close would we get to a civil war?
posted by Pastabagel at 8:37 AM on February 27, 2007
Metafilter: Nobody fucking cares how you see it
“he worked as a lineman for a power company.”
I now have 100% more respect for Cheney. Tough job. I didn’t know he did any manual labor at all. Of course, since I had zero respect to start with...
“Just for the record, I also wasn't blown up. But thanks for the concern, guys.”
Nice to hear Meatbomb. Always the same when the politicos show up. Dog & pony show. Everyone’s happy. Let’s play volleyball. Etc. etc. etc.
Stay safe brother.
“I'm actually wondering how much the Taliban actually knew of Cheney's visit beforehand.”
Yeah, uh...regarding all this root for Cheney dead or alive or not caring or whatever. Am I a cold hearted bastard because it’s just data to me?
Considering the spate of conveniant near-deaths and other trauma to key individuals, it’s looking like a pattern (head of Iraq - stroke, Iraqi veep - nearly assassinated, etc. etc. and oh, by the way Iraq's cabinet approved draft legislation Monday (that the U.S. demanded they pass) regarding the oil - day before we held Amar al-Hakim son of Aziz al-Hakim y’know, the Shiite party leader, the folks who hold the majority of seats in the Iraqi parliment - plus the uncharactaristic attack on an outpost back on the 19th)
I don’t know what kind of intel Jund al-Samaa is plugged into (they’re the “Soldiers of Heaven” the armed wing of a movement lead by Ahmad al-Hassani) , but a lot of otherwise fractious groups (Hawatim, Khaza'il) oppose the groups behind the Iraqi government. Meanwhile (also back on the 19th) Abdul Satar Abu Risha (who’s crew has been against the ‘militants’) almost gets clipped during the (mentioned above) uncharactaristically coordinated attack on the outpost north of Baghdad.
Meaning? Lotsa groups are working together now that the Iraqi parliment is actually doing something tangible with the country’s resources. And of course, maybe they’re getting kicked in the teeth (at the Battle of Najaf those two groups - the Hawatim and the Khaza'il - by some accounts tried to stop the firing. Of course since the “Soldiers of Heaven” were, apparently, there, it became a bullet festival. And they took an ass kicking. Funny how that worked out.)
But whether it’s coincidence or not - the opposition has had some coincidences occur in their favor as well (as mentioned above the assassination attempts, this here bombing, the stroke, etc.).
The real problem - the one I think most folks are missing - is that neither set of tactics is going to work - that is ‘work’ in terms of winning the war, convincing the other side to stop fighting - since both the U.S. and the Base (and sundry groups) authority is not vested in a single individual or group.
(Which actually, is the “Soldiers of Heaven”’s weak point. They have a mahadi. Kill him - end of problem there...of course, they’re just one arm).
So killing Cheney - as wonderful or dispicable as that might be - wouldn’t change a thing. Lauding or weeping even less so. His death would only alter the style with which these methods are executed. Not being interested in matters of taste myself, I don’t particularly care either way.
The way it looks now though, the Iraqi parlimentary vote will go through, the current group(s) in Iraq will consolidate their power and unify (under U.S. control) and in as little as 2 to 7 years, perhaps 10 years - depending, we could (emphasize - could) turn our attention to Iran.
(Given the current administration waited 10-odd years through a somewhat more level headed Bush the Greater and Clinton administrations - for this piece of business)
Cheney could live forever or die tomorrow - unless there is a change in policy, it’s just not that big a factor (save for the symbolic ones as mentioned above).
Except for his physical motions giving grief to the guys sucking ass in the mud and dust.
posted by Smedleyman at 8:41 AM on February 27, 2007
“he worked as a lineman for a power company.”
I now have 100% more respect for Cheney. Tough job. I didn’t know he did any manual labor at all. Of course, since I had zero respect to start with...
“Just for the record, I also wasn't blown up. But thanks for the concern, guys.”
Nice to hear Meatbomb. Always the same when the politicos show up. Dog & pony show. Everyone’s happy. Let’s play volleyball. Etc. etc. etc.
Stay safe brother.
“I'm actually wondering how much the Taliban actually knew of Cheney's visit beforehand.”
Yeah, uh...regarding all this root for Cheney dead or alive or not caring or whatever. Am I a cold hearted bastard because it’s just data to me?
Considering the spate of conveniant near-deaths and other trauma to key individuals, it’s looking like a pattern (head of Iraq - stroke, Iraqi veep - nearly assassinated, etc. etc. and oh, by the way Iraq's cabinet approved draft legislation Monday (that the U.S. demanded they pass) regarding the oil - day before we held Amar al-Hakim son of Aziz al-Hakim y’know, the Shiite party leader, the folks who hold the majority of seats in the Iraqi parliment - plus the uncharactaristic attack on an outpost back on the 19th)
I don’t know what kind of intel Jund al-Samaa is plugged into (they’re the “Soldiers of Heaven” the armed wing of a movement lead by Ahmad al-Hassani) , but a lot of otherwise fractious groups (Hawatim, Khaza'il) oppose the groups behind the Iraqi government. Meanwhile (also back on the 19th) Abdul Satar Abu Risha (who’s crew has been against the ‘militants’) almost gets clipped during the (mentioned above) uncharactaristically coordinated attack on the outpost north of Baghdad.
Meaning? Lotsa groups are working together now that the Iraqi parliment is actually doing something tangible with the country’s resources. And of course, maybe they’re getting kicked in the teeth (at the Battle of Najaf those two groups - the Hawatim and the Khaza'il - by some accounts tried to stop the firing. Of course since the “Soldiers of Heaven” were, apparently, there, it became a bullet festival. And they took an ass kicking. Funny how that worked out.)
But whether it’s coincidence or not - the opposition has had some coincidences occur in their favor as well (as mentioned above the assassination attempts, this here bombing, the stroke, etc.).
The real problem - the one I think most folks are missing - is that neither set of tactics is going to work - that is ‘work’ in terms of winning the war, convincing the other side to stop fighting - since both the U.S. and the Base (and sundry groups) authority is not vested in a single individual or group.
(Which actually, is the “Soldiers of Heaven”’s weak point. They have a mahadi. Kill him - end of problem there...of course, they’re just one arm).
So killing Cheney - as wonderful or dispicable as that might be - wouldn’t change a thing. Lauding or weeping even less so. His death would only alter the style with which these methods are executed. Not being interested in matters of taste myself, I don’t particularly care either way.
The way it looks now though, the Iraqi parlimentary vote will go through, the current group(s) in Iraq will consolidate their power and unify (under U.S. control) and in as little as 2 to 7 years, perhaps 10 years - depending, we could (emphasize - could) turn our attention to Iran.
(Given the current administration waited 10-odd years through a somewhat more level headed Bush the Greater and Clinton administrations - for this piece of business)
Cheney could live forever or die tomorrow - unless there is a change in policy, it’s just not that big a factor (save for the symbolic ones as mentioned above).
Except for his physical motions giving grief to the guys sucking ass in the mud and dust.
posted by Smedleyman at 8:41 AM on February 27, 2007
Schadenfreude at what coulda been Cheney's incineration aside, what is interesting here is that the Taliban is resurgent in Afghanistan. They sheltered Al-Qaeda. Their two biggest enemies: The Northern Alliance and the Mullahs of Iran. In fact, US-Iranian cooperation post-9/11 was premised on anti-Taliban mutual interest (before the whole Iraq debacle).
So, I am glad this happened. I hope the big Dick realizes that it is Sunni-Wahabi extremists (supported heavily by the Arab Sunni regimes, most importantly, Saudi Arabia) that are the threat within the Muslim world and that gave rise to Al-Qaeda ... and that the regime in Tehran is super-progressive in every way in comparison.
But, somehow, I think Cheney will twist this incident to promote his vendetta against Iran ... and of course, the Western public will believe him, because it still don't know its 'enemies', whether perceived or real.
posted by Azaadistani at 8:44 AM on February 27, 2007
So, I am glad this happened. I hope the big Dick realizes that it is Sunni-Wahabi extremists (supported heavily by the Arab Sunni regimes, most importantly, Saudi Arabia) that are the threat within the Muslim world and that gave rise to Al-Qaeda ... and that the regime in Tehran is super-progressive in every way in comparison.
But, somehow, I think Cheney will twist this incident to promote his vendetta against Iran ... and of course, the Western public will believe him, because it still don't know its 'enemies', whether perceived or real.
posted by Azaadistani at 8:44 AM on February 27, 2007
"He probably came closer to harm when he came to Sydney last week..."
I saw footage of that on the news. You Aussies don't fuck around. Our piddly little "protests" here pale in comparison.
Looked like a lot of fun, actually!
posted by drstein at 9:00 AM on February 27, 2007
I saw footage of that on the news. You Aussies don't fuck around. Our piddly little "protests" here pale in comparison.
Looked like a lot of fun, actually!
posted by drstein at 9:00 AM on February 27, 2007
He needs to be felled by a heart attack. If he'd been taken out by brown people, the loyal GOP would have turned him into a martyr and flattened most of the area with tactical nukes.
I'm all for the guy getting what he rightly deserves, but his death at the hands of those who have been deemed enemies of the state would only lead to untold amounts of worldwide badness.
The US government (parts of it, anyway) cooked up a war. I don't think it's that hard to imagine what would happen if they're given a reason as significant as the murder of the 2nd in command.
posted by ninjew at 9:06 AM on February 27, 2007
I'm all for the guy getting what he rightly deserves, but his death at the hands of those who have been deemed enemies of the state would only lead to untold amounts of worldwide badness.
The US government (parts of it, anyway) cooked up a war. I don't think it's that hard to imagine what would happen if they're given a reason as significant as the murder of the 2nd in command.
posted by ninjew at 9:06 AM on February 27, 2007
I'm fighting the zombie LGF hordes over at Digg if anyone's interested in grabbing some holy water and a crucifix:
http://digg.com/world_news/Cheney_OK_After_Islamic_Attack_Metafilter_Disappointed
posted by fleetmouse at 9:20 AM on February 27, 2007
http://digg.com/world_news/Cheney_OK_After_Islamic_Attack_Metafilter_Disappointed
posted by fleetmouse at 9:20 AM on February 27, 2007
Why waste your time?
LGF is full of certifiable nutcases.
posted by empath at 9:28 AM on February 27, 2007
LGF is full of certifiable nutcases.
posted by empath at 9:28 AM on February 27, 2007
Certainly, but the culture clash as they attempt to swarm Digg is rather amusing. I like how they "get tired of arguing" when they're backed into a corner. It's cute!
posted by fleetmouse at 9:30 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by fleetmouse at 9:30 AM on February 27, 2007
/btw sorry for the extraordinarially long parenthetical - most of the stuff I referenced is easily googled. The ultimate point being - this isn’t Hercules vs. the Hydra - it’s more like two Hydra going at it. Cheney isn’t even a head, he’s just a set of teeth (I mean look at his pictures - Grrr~!). Chop off a head, two grow back.
Rumsfeld’s gone, that changed a lot, didn’t it?...so...heard from the secretary of defense lately? (Last I heard he was talking to NATO saying they have to fulfill their commitments to provide troops for Afghanistan in time for a spring offensive against Taliban)
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Cheney was there to bitch at Musharraf about cracking down on The Base.
And you’ve got a Kurd, a Sunni and a Shiite in Iraq as president, and two veeps - respectively (with veto rights) and two of them almost died in what is an extremely shakey situation. Any one of them dying could (re)destabilize the country and spark more sectarian struggle.
posted by Smedleyman at 9:34 AM on February 27, 2007
Rumsfeld’s gone, that changed a lot, didn’t it?...so...heard from the secretary of defense lately? (Last I heard he was talking to NATO saying they have to fulfill their commitments to provide troops for Afghanistan in time for a spring offensive against Taliban)
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Cheney was there to bitch at Musharraf about cracking down on The Base.
And you’ve got a Kurd, a Sunni and a Shiite in Iraq as president, and two veeps - respectively (with veto rights) and two of them almost died in what is an extremely shakey situation. Any one of them dying could (re)destabilize the country and spark more sectarian struggle.
posted by Smedleyman at 9:34 AM on February 27, 2007
this thread is disturbing for a lot of reasons.
is anna nicole smith still dead?
posted by pokermonk at 9:43 AM on February 27, 2007
is anna nicole smith still dead?
posted by pokermonk at 9:43 AM on February 27, 2007
It was a lone suicide bomber. So you nutty conspiracy theorists back off on this one, OK?
posted by wfc123 at 9:46 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by wfc123 at 9:46 AM on February 27, 2007
Yeah, it’s not like the Taliban said VP was the target or anything. It was a lone nut.
posted by Smedleyman at 9:51 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by Smedleyman at 9:51 AM on February 27, 2007
Apart from the fact that 19 other people tragically lost their lives, this is the worst possible thing that could happen at a time when the Democrats are seeing a resurgence.
leaving aside all the other stupidity here, when in this kind of crap going to stop? This knee-jerk cynicism that every single thing that ever happens anywhere is "the worst possible thing that could happen" for the Democrats. Like all those "october surprises" that kept the Dems from taking back Congress last November, remember those? Oh wait, that didn't happen. But don't let that stop you.
Seriously, this is an incredibly minor event that will be forgotten this time next week. The idea that it would have any effect on politics at home, or on anything anywhere, is just silly.
posted by drjimmy11 at 9:52 AM on February 27, 2007
leaving aside all the other stupidity here, when in this kind of crap going to stop? This knee-jerk cynicism that every single thing that ever happens anywhere is "the worst possible thing that could happen" for the Democrats. Like all those "october surprises" that kept the Dems from taking back Congress last November, remember those? Oh wait, that didn't happen. But don't let that stop you.
Seriously, this is an incredibly minor event that will be forgotten this time next week. The idea that it would have any effect on politics at home, or on anything anywhere, is just silly.
posted by drjimmy11 at 9:52 AM on February 27, 2007
This thread is pretty disturbing.
Dick Cheney's leadership has been disasterous; but let's not lose sight of the fact that terrorist attacks are bad. And the Taliban-- they're not really great people.
Dick Cheney getting killed by terrorists in no way makes this world a better place. Seriously. And 20 other people did die.
posted by ibmcginty at 9:53 AM on February 27, 2007
Dick Cheney's leadership has been disasterous; but let's not lose sight of the fact that terrorist attacks are bad. And the Taliban-- they're not really great people.
Dick Cheney getting killed by terrorists in no way makes this world a better place. Seriously. And 20 other people did die.
posted by ibmcginty at 9:53 AM on February 27, 2007
This thread may be bad for MeFi, but it's good for AskMe if it means members spend less time asking questions and more time getting interviewed by the secret service.
posted by hoverboards don't work on water at 10:02 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by hoverboards don't work on water at 10:02 AM on February 27, 2007
Those comments on Digg are quite upsetting. Unmoderated forums devolve into ranting so quickly.
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:27 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:27 AM on February 27, 2007
Dick Cheney getting killed by terrorists in no way makes this world a better place. Seriously. And 20 other people did die.
It would be a case of the "Chickens coming Home to Roost" however. The irony would be so rich we would choke on it. The resurgence of the Taliban can be directly traced to the Bush Administration moving our troops to Iraq and utterly neglecting Afghanistan.
Cheney being killed by the Taliban would deprive the US Citizen a chance at real justice. Seeing the man prosecuted for war crimes.
But those 20 people? Yes. Very tragic.
But it's important to note that when WE, the US, kill innocent bystanders in Iraq (amounting to the tens of THOUSANDS at this point) it's shrugged off by TLGF crowd. They don't seem to wring their hands too much over innocent blood when their tax dollars that fund the bombs and bullets. In fact they close thier eyes and deney it happens at all.
And THAT is something, if they really cared about human life, they COULD stop by changing US policy.
Where as stopping the Taliban or AQ from blowing up people is out of the realm of possibility for the average US citizen. No matter how tough they talk on the internet.
posted by tkchrist at 10:37 AM on February 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
It would be a case of the "Chickens coming Home to Roost" however. The irony would be so rich we would choke on it. The resurgence of the Taliban can be directly traced to the Bush Administration moving our troops to Iraq and utterly neglecting Afghanistan.
Cheney being killed by the Taliban would deprive the US Citizen a chance at real justice. Seeing the man prosecuted for war crimes.
But those 20 people? Yes. Very tragic.
But it's important to note that when WE, the US, kill innocent bystanders in Iraq (amounting to the tens of THOUSANDS at this point) it's shrugged off by TLGF crowd. They don't seem to wring their hands too much over innocent blood when their tax dollars that fund the bombs and bullets. In fact they close thier eyes and deney it happens at all.
And THAT is something, if they really cared about human life, they COULD stop by changing US policy.
Where as stopping the Taliban or AQ from blowing up people is out of the realm of possibility for the average US citizen. No matter how tough they talk on the internet.
posted by tkchrist at 10:37 AM on February 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
Those comments on Digg are quite upsetting.
No they're not. They are hilarious. I cannot fear people so stupid, so deluded and so easily manipulated.
I find stupidity like that reassuring. They will buy what ever I sell them. I will always be one step ahead of them. I will never have to work all that hard to succeed.
My children will rule theirs.
We just have to keep TLGF away from the sharps and flammables or they could hurt themselves.
posted by tkchrist at 10:42 AM on February 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
No they're not. They are hilarious. I cannot fear people so stupid, so deluded and so easily manipulated.
I find stupidity like that reassuring. They will buy what ever I sell them. I will always be one step ahead of them. I will never have to work all that hard to succeed.
My children will rule theirs.
We just have to keep TLGF away from the sharps and flammables or they could hurt themselves.
posted by tkchrist at 10:42 AM on February 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
When the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:01 AM on February 27, 2007 [4 favorites]
posted by Smedleyman at 11:01 AM on February 27, 2007 [4 favorites]
I don't want Cheney to die. I want him to go to trial.
posted by malaprohibita at 11:19 AM on February 27, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by malaprohibita at 11:19 AM on February 27, 2007 [2 favorites]
I honestly don't think the Secret Service has the man-power to investigate everybody who makes a sarcastic comment on the internet, particularly with regards to this incident. But just in case, I would like to make it clear that the only action I'd personally take against the VP (or any other corrupt and incompetent politician) would be to vote for politicians that will promise to impeach him and remove him from office and/or put him on trial.
posted by empath at 11:20 AM on February 27, 2007
posted by empath at 11:20 AM on February 27, 2007
I don't want Cheney to die. I want him to go to trial.
Hear, hear!
posted by homunculus at 11:29 AM on February 27, 2007
Hear, hear!
posted by homunculus at 11:29 AM on February 27, 2007
If Cheney were plinked off, would his freakish and basically unconstitutional take on the Vice Presidency die with him?
Look, that Cheney's outlived Joey Ramone and James Brown is a crime against nature, as far as I'm concerned, and I don't care what finally manages to bring him down, except for vaguely strategic reasons, which is why I'm "glad" he wasn't blown up in Afghanistan. Could they maybe have just winged him? Take out an eye, make him walk around with a patch the next couple years.
posted by furiousthought at 11:42 AM on February 27, 2007
Look, that Cheney's outlived Joey Ramone and James Brown is a crime against nature, as far as I'm concerned, and I don't care what finally manages to bring him down, except for vaguely strategic reasons, which is why I'm "glad" he wasn't blown up in Afghanistan. Could they maybe have just winged him? Take out an eye, make him walk around with a patch the next couple years.
posted by furiousthought at 11:42 AM on February 27, 2007
Guh. It's been a while since I've stumbled across an LGF love-in like the one over at Digg, and they never cease to amaze me. Has 'moonbats' really become de rigeur in right-wing circles? It's like there's no other permissible plural noun when making reference to 'people who do not wish to fellate the sitting president.'
I cannot fear people so stupid, so deluded and so easily manipulated... They will buy what ever I sell them.
If only, tkchrist. They still vote, and what we're selling ain't hateful enough for 'em to be buying.
posted by Mayor West at 11:51 AM on February 27, 2007
I cannot fear people so stupid, so deluded and so easily manipulated... They will buy what ever I sell them.
If only, tkchrist. They still vote, and what we're selling ain't hateful enough for 'em to be buying.
posted by Mayor West at 11:51 AM on February 27, 2007
A quote from over at Digg: What term Charles intends to use is entirely up to him. This doesn't change the fact that he provided a telling contrast, one that exposes the hypocrisy of much of the Left.
How in the hell are we the hypocrites? I think it's considerably more hypocritical to act as if nothing is wrong with the current administration and their batshit crazy policies. Or, to use a term from above, "fellate the sitting president."
I'd love, love, love to see Cheney and Bush on trial. It'll never happen because there are just enough mindless, knuckle-dragging drones in this country to keep mindless, knuckle-dragging Congresspeople who "represent" their views in Washington.
And by "represent," I mean "keep getting elected to suck at the lobbyist trough while occasionally throwing their inbred constituents a bone."
Would I cry a single, solitary tear if Darth Cheney got blown into bits? Hell no. He's perverted the Constitution and every other good thing about this country more than an 8-armed intern fondling Bill Clinton robot ever could. But calling us the hypocrites is damn near hysterically funny.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 12:05 PM on February 27, 2007
How in the hell are we the hypocrites? I think it's considerably more hypocritical to act as if nothing is wrong with the current administration and their batshit crazy policies. Or, to use a term from above, "fellate the sitting president."
I'd love, love, love to see Cheney and Bush on trial. It'll never happen because there are just enough mindless, knuckle-dragging drones in this country to keep mindless, knuckle-dragging Congresspeople who "represent" their views in Washington.
And by "represent," I mean "keep getting elected to suck at the lobbyist trough while occasionally throwing their inbred constituents a bone."
Would I cry a single, solitary tear if Darth Cheney got blown into bits? Hell no. He's perverted the Constitution and every other good thing about this country more than an 8-armed intern fondling Bill Clinton robot ever could. But calling us the hypocrites is damn near hysterically funny.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 12:05 PM on February 27, 2007
I had to go check out the discussion at LGF. Kinda wish I hadn't- I feel really dirty now. How a discussion (?) of Cheney almost getting bombed can devolve into arguments about Jews, conspiracies and the fucking Civil War is way beyond me. All I know is I'd rather be a moonbat than a third-grade dingbat. Now, how do I wash my brain? It burns.
Side note: Now I see how Hannity and Limbaugh and O'Reilly got so big -They are waaaaay smarter than their audience.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 12:57 PM on February 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
Side note: Now I see how Hannity and Limbaugh and O'Reilly got so big -They are waaaaay smarter than their audience.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 12:57 PM on February 27, 2007 [1 favorite]
Maybe that's just how they greet liberators in their culture.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 1:02 PM on February 27, 2007
posted by Pater Aletheias at 1:02 PM on February 27, 2007
I'd advise the Taliban not to try this again, unless they've trained a pretty convincing Cheney double to step in and take his job. *That* would be a neat trick.
posted by washburn at 1:03 PM on February 27, 2007
posted by washburn at 1:03 PM on February 27, 2007
Right, there was some cackling in this thread about the VP. They were gleefully licking their chops at a chance to kill their fellow americans in a civil war.
posted by empath at 1:16 PM on February 27, 2007
posted by empath at 1:16 PM on February 27, 2007
I'm pretty late to the discussion as usual but...
I am not going to feel bad about praying for Cheney's death. Yes, it's possible the administration would use this to whip up some more blood lust but I would think the millions of people dancing in the streets would make an effective counter-spin.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 1:42 PM on February 27, 2007
I am not going to feel bad about praying for Cheney's death. Yes, it's possible the administration would use this to whip up some more blood lust but I would think the millions of people dancing in the streets would make an effective counter-spin.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 1:42 PM on February 27, 2007
“I am not going to feel bad about praying for Cheney's death.”
Who you praying to? Man, religious folks scare the crap out of me sometimes. What sort of intersession would one hypothetically look for from a deity? Lightning bolt?
If I wanted him dead, he’d be dead by now (note to Secret Service - he’s alive, as far as I’m concerned can stay that way - see below). Or I’d be in prison. Or dead. But I don’t see where God (or whomever) enters into it. Reminds me of the whole going back in time and killing Hitler thing. That’s not going to stop WWII or cure anti-semitism.
You don’t take out the man in politics. If it were a battlefield and he was an enemy general - solid. But in that case you’d best not merely pray. Want Cheney neutralized? Destroy his policies. Do that and he’s just an old man with a bad heart. (Ozymandius)
I will comment on the whole ‘draft dodger’ thing - patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
posted by Smedleyman at 2:41 PM on February 27, 2007
Who you praying to? Man, religious folks scare the crap out of me sometimes. What sort of intersession would one hypothetically look for from a deity? Lightning bolt?
If I wanted him dead, he’d be dead by now (note to Secret Service - he’s alive, as far as I’m concerned can stay that way - see below). Or I’d be in prison. Or dead. But I don’t see where God (or whomever) enters into it. Reminds me of the whole going back in time and killing Hitler thing. That’s not going to stop WWII or cure anti-semitism.
You don’t take out the man in politics. If it were a battlefield and he was an enemy general - solid. But in that case you’d best not merely pray. Want Cheney neutralized? Destroy his policies. Do that and he’s just an old man with a bad heart. (Ozymandius)
I will comment on the whole ‘draft dodger’ thing - patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
posted by Smedleyman at 2:41 PM on February 27, 2007
Has someone spliced Cheney into the end of Return of the Jedi yet? Chillin' with Obi-wan and Yoda on Endor? ;)
posted by ...possums at 3:02 PM on February 27, 2007
posted by ...possums at 3:02 PM on February 27, 2007
I pray to Astro Zombie.
Yeah, of course the answer is to destroy the machine, not the cogs. That and you know being a good librul means you have to go along with the whole pacifist thing. However, some might say that one less Cheney in the world would be a net gain for humanity.
Yeah, it's sad that it's come to this. But it's hard to have empathy for the man who was instrumental in the deaths of 500,000+ innocent people.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 3:30 PM on February 27, 2007
Yeah, of course the answer is to destroy the machine, not the cogs. That and you know being a good librul means you have to go along with the whole pacifist thing. However, some might say that one less Cheney in the world would be a net gain for humanity.
Yeah, it's sad that it's come to this. But it's hard to have empathy for the man who was instrumental in the deaths of 500,000+ innocent people.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 3:30 PM on February 27, 2007
I had to look up "moonbat."
The volume of vilification from either side is disheartening. When did politics turn into one giant flame war?
How long will it be until we start lobbing bricks at each other?
posted by zennie at 4:22 PM on February 27, 2007
The volume of vilification from either side is disheartening. When did politics turn into one giant flame war?
How long will it be until we start lobbing bricks at each other?
posted by zennie at 4:22 PM on February 27, 2007
Has someone spliced Cheney into the end of Return of the Jedi yet?
I like this.
posted by homunculus at 4:29 PM on February 27, 2007
I like this.
posted by homunculus at 4:29 PM on February 27, 2007
“That and you know being a good librul means you have to go along with the whole pacifist thing.”
Not at all. Not only am I not a liberal, if I truly thought it would work I’d go kill him myself. No hyperbole.
But, as it so happens, it wouldn’t work. But that’s fairly common to folks in high office, so most folks there are fairly invulnerable. There are many interlocking interests supporting policy rather than just one guy. And of course, you become the thing you’re fighting. (What’s that quote? - there is no way to peace, peace is the way. Yeah. The killing, for me, isn’t the problem. I can kill like Arjuna, but some methods are self-defeating and manifestly so.)
Killing Hitler in the later stages of the war f’rinstance, when other folks had factions powerful enough to challenge him, that would have worked. But of course by then the final solution had begun. Would that have stopped it? I dunno. And indeed, if he - or rather his successor - hadn’t decided to invade Russia, it’d be a very different world.
It’s extraordinarily rare that power is thoroughly invested in one individual. Stalin, say.
It’s why oligarchy is far more common.
Indeed, even in the case of monarchy - you still have royal families with claims to the throne and such. So even killing a king doesn’t do anything if the political situation isn’t right.
Oh, I’m not saying you can’t hate the guy (it’s your karma - but yeah, Cheney is indeed a bastard) or defending any of his actions. Just looking at it as a practical sorta thing. Something you can actually do instead of grinding your gears.
....Of course, so is relieving frustration by sounding off on metafilter, so really, moot point I make.
“I pray to Astro Zombie.”
Oh. ...well, who doesn’t?
posted by Smedleyman at 4:58 PM on February 27, 2007
Not at all. Not only am I not a liberal, if I truly thought it would work I’d go kill him myself. No hyperbole.
But, as it so happens, it wouldn’t work. But that’s fairly common to folks in high office, so most folks there are fairly invulnerable. There are many interlocking interests supporting policy rather than just one guy. And of course, you become the thing you’re fighting. (What’s that quote? - there is no way to peace, peace is the way. Yeah. The killing, for me, isn’t the problem. I can kill like Arjuna, but some methods are self-defeating and manifestly so.)
Killing Hitler in the later stages of the war f’rinstance, when other folks had factions powerful enough to challenge him, that would have worked. But of course by then the final solution had begun. Would that have stopped it? I dunno. And indeed, if he - or rather his successor - hadn’t decided to invade Russia, it’d be a very different world.
It’s extraordinarily rare that power is thoroughly invested in one individual. Stalin, say.
It’s why oligarchy is far more common.
Indeed, even in the case of monarchy - you still have royal families with claims to the throne and such. So even killing a king doesn’t do anything if the political situation isn’t right.
Oh, I’m not saying you can’t hate the guy (it’s your karma - but yeah, Cheney is indeed a bastard) or defending any of his actions. Just looking at it as a practical sorta thing. Something you can actually do instead of grinding your gears.
....Of course, so is relieving frustration by sounding off on metafilter, so really, moot point I make.
“I pray to Astro Zombie.”
Oh. ...well, who doesn’t?
posted by Smedleyman at 4:58 PM on February 27, 2007
How long will it be until we start lobbing bricks at each other
Unfortunately, the other side has assault rifles, not bricks.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 5:29 PM on February 27, 2007
I don't know if I can handle any more disappointments re: Cheney. What's next? Are we going to hear that his Air Force 2 jet lost both of its engines over the Pacific, but fortunately he was able to float safely to the ground on his black cloud of evil, surviving during rescue by feasting on the charred remains of his staff?
posted by brain cloud at 7:26 PM on February 27, 2007
posted by brain cloud at 7:26 PM on February 27, 2007
Unfortunately, the other side has assault rifles, not bricks.
Can't decide if this is exemplifying my point, or missing it entirely.
posted by zennie at 8:07 PM on February 27, 2007
Can't decide if this is exemplifying my point, or missing it entirely.
posted by zennie at 8:07 PM on February 27, 2007
I don't understand why so many other Americans are cheering these types of attacks. Would you really be cheering at the death of another person? As unthinkable as it is, Cheney has a family just as you do. Do you really think that having Cheney (and most likely dozens of other servicemen protecting him) get killed would help this country? If he dies, the wars will not end. Pelosi would assume the position and...wow...things would stay the same. The only difference would be that people couldn't complain about Cheney anymore.
It sickens me that people are rooting for one of America's leaders' deaths. I understand people not liking him. That's fine. I am not a huge fan of him either.
I really hope that this whole American anti-America thing is a fad because it is very discouraging to see much of America following the latest fad of hating the Bush administration. I truly hope that this fad fades as Americans realize that talking trash against their own country digs themselves into a deeper hole as opposed to moving toward a better future.
posted by bigcheesegump at 8:44 PM on February 27, 2007
It sickens me that people are rooting for one of America's leaders' deaths. I understand people not liking him. That's fine. I am not a huge fan of him either.
I really hope that this whole American anti-America thing is a fad because it is very discouraging to see much of America following the latest fad of hating the Bush administration. I truly hope that this fad fades as Americans realize that talking trash against their own country digs themselves into a deeper hole as opposed to moving toward a better future.
posted by bigcheesegump at 8:44 PM on February 27, 2007
Huh. I didn't see anyone asking the important questions here:
1. How did they catch wind of th VP's visit?
2. How did they expect a single bomber to reach the VP?
3. Suicide bombing effectiveness isn't in getting specific targets or large numbers- it's in sheer fear-power.
So.. if you wanted a good example to point to in 5 years that there's some serious problems with our government in this time, then this is it.
This entire thing implies that we have leaks in our intelligence and protection schemes, that someone wants to see an emboldened administration after they utilize this attack to political advantage, and that no matter what, the VP was going to be kept safe- and away from the entrance of this place.
Again, the entrance?! And you're having Al Queda claim responsibility AND announce that he was the de facto target?! This is all too perfect, and packaged for mass consumption.
posted by id at 9:06 PM on February 27, 2007
1. How did they catch wind of th VP's visit?
2. How did they expect a single bomber to reach the VP?
3. Suicide bombing effectiveness isn't in getting specific targets or large numbers- it's in sheer fear-power.
So.. if you wanted a good example to point to in 5 years that there's some serious problems with our government in this time, then this is it.
This entire thing implies that we have leaks in our intelligence and protection schemes, that someone wants to see an emboldened administration after they utilize this attack to political advantage, and that no matter what, the VP was going to be kept safe- and away from the entrance of this place.
Again, the entrance?! And you're having Al Queda claim responsibility AND announce that he was the de facto target?! This is all too perfect, and packaged for mass consumption.
posted by id at 9:06 PM on February 27, 2007
I really hope that this whole American anti-America thing is a fad because it is very discouraging to see much of America following the latest fad of hating the Bush administration. I truly hope that this fad fades as Americans realize that talking trash against their own country digs themselves into a deeper hole as opposed to moving toward a better future.
bigcheesegump, your statement above shows that you have gobbled whole one of the more nefarious bits if disinfo dished by our right-wing counterparts: criticism of the current administration equals hate for the United States. Hard as it might be for supporters of the administration to believe, we on the left/progressive side of things love this country, have concern for our future , and that's why we have such bitterness toward Bush, Cheney, and the rest. The war, the abuses of our good will around the world, the torture, the lies, and creative interpretation of our constitution are all wrong and evil, and pointing this out is our duty as citizens. Moreover, it's our right to do so. I didn't know there was only one flavor of patriotism - has that changed too? Maybe only people who watch Fox News got that memo.
Do you really think people hold these opinions because it's a fad? Please try and dig a little deeper than that. Some of us have been paying attention these last several years. When things don't add up, we're going to say so. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.
And Cheney? Puhleeze. He's a grand coward. I'd try and muster a tear at his funeral if I thought he had shed even one during the whole fucking debacle of the last 6 years. I'm more concerned about all the people who he has sent to die overseas for no good reason, and the tens of thousands of civilians in those nations who would be alive today were it not for our divine intervention.
posted by brain cloud at 9:17 PM on February 27, 2007
bigcheesegump, your statement above shows that you have gobbled whole one of the more nefarious bits if disinfo dished by our right-wing counterparts: criticism of the current administration equals hate for the United States. Hard as it might be for supporters of the administration to believe, we on the left/progressive side of things love this country, have concern for our future , and that's why we have such bitterness toward Bush, Cheney, and the rest. The war, the abuses of our good will around the world, the torture, the lies, and creative interpretation of our constitution are all wrong and evil, and pointing this out is our duty as citizens. Moreover, it's our right to do so. I didn't know there was only one flavor of patriotism - has that changed too? Maybe only people who watch Fox News got that memo.
Do you really think people hold these opinions because it's a fad? Please try and dig a little deeper than that. Some of us have been paying attention these last several years. When things don't add up, we're going to say so. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.
And Cheney? Puhleeze. He's a grand coward. I'd try and muster a tear at his funeral if I thought he had shed even one during the whole fucking debacle of the last 6 years. I'm more concerned about all the people who he has sent to die overseas for no good reason, and the tens of thousands of civilians in those nations who would be alive today were it not for our divine intervention.
posted by brain cloud at 9:17 PM on February 27, 2007
I am no super secret Taliban intelligence agency but a search of Google results in this article. It details that news organizations knew about Cheney's pending visit ahead of time and the White House requested they keep that information under wraps.
Regardless, how long would it take for a potential suicide attack to be planned if they had no prior knowledge of Cheney's visit? Or if the bomber looked up and (presumably ) saw a convoy of American military choppers and figured it had something to do with the Cheney's recent visit in the area. These terrorists are not idiots. They too know how to utilize technology to their benefit.
Finally, when you mention this was 'all too perfect', what do you mean by that? Do people really think the US government is attempting to scare it's population into submission by creating a threat against a very unpopular vice president who is currently on the other side of the world? If the government was planning this for it's sheer fear-power, wouldn't this same type of attack be better planned in Washington or somewhere domestic. It seems strange that the government would try to plan such an attack in Afghanistan when they are trying to assuage the American population that it is getting safer in the region.
These conspiracy theories about the US government are reaching the point of ridiculous.
posted by bigcheesegump at 9:26 PM on February 27, 2007
Regardless, how long would it take for a potential suicide attack to be planned if they had no prior knowledge of Cheney's visit? Or if the bomber looked up and (presumably ) saw a convoy of American military choppers and figured it had something to do with the Cheney's recent visit in the area. These terrorists are not idiots. They too know how to utilize technology to their benefit.
Finally, when you mention this was 'all too perfect', what do you mean by that? Do people really think the US government is attempting to scare it's population into submission by creating a threat against a very unpopular vice president who is currently on the other side of the world? If the government was planning this for it's sheer fear-power, wouldn't this same type of attack be better planned in Washington or somewhere domestic. It seems strange that the government would try to plan such an attack in Afghanistan when they are trying to assuage the American population that it is getting safer in the region.
These conspiracy theories about the US government are reaching the point of ridiculous.
posted by bigcheesegump at 9:26 PM on February 27, 2007
The difference between an attempt on US soil and an attempt on foreign soil is accountability: by having the attack locally, then there would be fallout, much like Katrina, on the overall view of the government, let alone the administration itself. Transportation, security, police, military- all would be called into question. Whereas on foreign soil, you avert this whole thing by it being a warzone- attacks are expected.
So, yeah, it's slightly conspiracyish. But, when I say it's all too perfect, I mean to say that the situation is too useful politically, and that there are too many. Again I pose the questions:
1. What the hell is the VP doing in a warzone?
2. More importantly, why are the people responsible for protecting the VP treating our top officials to no secrecy of location, in a warzone?
3. Why do organizations without proper clearance have preliminary information about the VP's location in the first place?
4. How could a single bomber expect to succeed in attacking the VP in a fortified base?
5. By announcing that Al Queda intended to attack the VP and was responsible, what did they hope to gain? I mean, they failed in attacking the VP? So why do it in the first place? What was the real point of the operation?
Again, these questions are not getting asked.
The VP just spent time in Pakistan saying that they needed to crack down on Al Queda or else. Then an attack occurs, by Al Queda, on him, just across the border. What great timing.
Now, do you see anything conspiratorial yet? I answer 'yes' only to the political advantages that the administration will most likely utilize, thanks to this attack.
posted by id at 9:47 PM on February 27, 2007
So, yeah, it's slightly conspiracyish. But, when I say it's all too perfect, I mean to say that the situation is too useful politically, and that there are too many. Again I pose the questions:
1. What the hell is the VP doing in a warzone?
2. More importantly, why are the people responsible for protecting the VP treating our top officials to no secrecy of location, in a warzone?
3. Why do organizations without proper clearance have preliminary information about the VP's location in the first place?
4. How could a single bomber expect to succeed in attacking the VP in a fortified base?
5. By announcing that Al Queda intended to attack the VP and was responsible, what did they hope to gain? I mean, they failed in attacking the VP? So why do it in the first place? What was the real point of the operation?
Again, these questions are not getting asked.
The VP just spent time in Pakistan saying that they needed to crack down on Al Queda or else. Then an attack occurs, by Al Queda, on him, just across the border. What great timing.
Now, do you see anything conspiratorial yet? I answer 'yes' only to the political advantages that the administration will most likely utilize, thanks to this attack.
posted by id at 9:47 PM on February 27, 2007
By the way, BCG, Pelosi wouldn't take the office of VP in the event of a vacancy.
"A25: Section 2. Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress."
posted by id at 9:54 PM on February 27, 2007
"A25: Section 2. Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress."
posted by id at 9:54 PM on February 27, 2007
Thank you for your reply brain cloud. I do have to disagree though.
I wholeheartedly understand your point on people misconstruing dislike of the current administration with hatred towards the United State. I know that they are two seperate entities and I am able to keep the like/dislike of the government and nation seperate. I disagree with the current administration over plenty of issues and have no problem with this.
I do not see myself as a pro-Bush supporter or one who gobbles whole the disinfo given to me by the right-wing counterparts. My issue with this whole article is that people who dislike Mr. Cheney are wishing death to him. That is disrespectful to the nation and the office he currently holds. I don't know if this stance is supported by the right or the left but it is held by me.
I understand that liberals love their country just as much as conservatives do. I wouldn't assume anything else. It is just when certain people make statements that call for the murder of the president and vice president it calls into question whether or not they have made the distinction between hate of the administration or the country.
Looking at today's headlines and seeing how many around the world think about the United States today, I see your concern about our image. I feel this is inevitable being that the US remains the most powerful nation on the planet. I do not say this as a flag-waving, Rambo-watching, kick-ass American but is just my opinion based on geo-political and economic facts. The US supplies much of the world with Aid; be it monetary, food or protection. As many critics there are of the United States, there are billions of people in the world who depend on US support and aid.
There is a reason that these terrorists are called extremists. They are not part of the mainstream Islamic community. The people that the US (and the world) are at war with are a minority. It is tough to argue that the world does not hate us when most newspapers talk about how much evil we do around the world. It is extremely more difficult to disprove this fact due to the fact that mainstream America's window into the global conciousness is through the media. This same media that thrives off of this violence and chaos.
Again, I do not understand your claims that there exists only one brand of patriotism. I do not see that happening. If you go to a protest, you will most likely see a counter-protest. It is amazing! Democracy works for both sides. Both sides get to publisize their opinion and NO ONE is discouraged from doing this.
I definately agree with your assertation that it is your right to disagree with the current administration's interpretation of the Constitution. The whole system of checks and balances is there for a reason. But to say that what they are doing is wrong and evil is stepping on your previous argument about the one brand of patriotism. While you may see Bush's interpretation as extreme, he probably identifies you as the extremist. It is within his power as President to interpret the Constitution to the extent his powers allow him to. You don't agree with him, that's fine. Then vote differently, support your causes, make a difference. Calling what they are doing evil and wrong is childish.
I appreciate your apology while I don't think it was necessary. I really do think that people hold these opinions because it is a fad. I too have been paying attention these past few years. I, actually, have been paying attention past just a few years. If you really dig deep you can see that anti-US opinions are not something new. The US' mismanagement of Middle East policy dates back to FDR. As shocking as this sounds, perhaps the problems of today are an accumulation of American policies for decades.
I do not, however, appreciate your disdain towards Mr. Cheney. I may disagree with you on your opinion and your wishes for Mr. Cheney but I respect that you were able to write your opinions down on the matter. I do hope you do not believe in this type of vigilante justice. On a personal basis, I regret the lives lost due to this war but I do not feel that they were in vain.
Thanks for your time.
posted by bigcheesegump at 10:00 PM on February 27, 2007
I wholeheartedly understand your point on people misconstruing dislike of the current administration with hatred towards the United State. I know that they are two seperate entities and I am able to keep the like/dislike of the government and nation seperate. I disagree with the current administration over plenty of issues and have no problem with this.
I do not see myself as a pro-Bush supporter or one who gobbles whole the disinfo given to me by the right-wing counterparts. My issue with this whole article is that people who dislike Mr. Cheney are wishing death to him. That is disrespectful to the nation and the office he currently holds. I don't know if this stance is supported by the right or the left but it is held by me.
I understand that liberals love their country just as much as conservatives do. I wouldn't assume anything else. It is just when certain people make statements that call for the murder of the president and vice president it calls into question whether or not they have made the distinction between hate of the administration or the country.
Looking at today's headlines and seeing how many around the world think about the United States today, I see your concern about our image. I feel this is inevitable being that the US remains the most powerful nation on the planet. I do not say this as a flag-waving, Rambo-watching, kick-ass American but is just my opinion based on geo-political and economic facts. The US supplies much of the world with Aid; be it monetary, food or protection. As many critics there are of the United States, there are billions of people in the world who depend on US support and aid.
There is a reason that these terrorists are called extremists. They are not part of the mainstream Islamic community. The people that the US (and the world) are at war with are a minority. It is tough to argue that the world does not hate us when most newspapers talk about how much evil we do around the world. It is extremely more difficult to disprove this fact due to the fact that mainstream America's window into the global conciousness is through the media. This same media that thrives off of this violence and chaos.
Again, I do not understand your claims that there exists only one brand of patriotism. I do not see that happening. If you go to a protest, you will most likely see a counter-protest. It is amazing! Democracy works for both sides. Both sides get to publisize their opinion and NO ONE is discouraged from doing this.
I definately agree with your assertation that it is your right to disagree with the current administration's interpretation of the Constitution. The whole system of checks and balances is there for a reason. But to say that what they are doing is wrong and evil is stepping on your previous argument about the one brand of patriotism. While you may see Bush's interpretation as extreme, he probably identifies you as the extremist. It is within his power as President to interpret the Constitution to the extent his powers allow him to. You don't agree with him, that's fine. Then vote differently, support your causes, make a difference. Calling what they are doing evil and wrong is childish.
I appreciate your apology while I don't think it was necessary. I really do think that people hold these opinions because it is a fad. I too have been paying attention these past few years. I, actually, have been paying attention past just a few years. If you really dig deep you can see that anti-US opinions are not something new. The US' mismanagement of Middle East policy dates back to FDR. As shocking as this sounds, perhaps the problems of today are an accumulation of American policies for decades.
I do not, however, appreciate your disdain towards Mr. Cheney. I may disagree with you on your opinion and your wishes for Mr. Cheney but I respect that you were able to write your opinions down on the matter. I do hope you do not believe in this type of vigilante justice. On a personal basis, I regret the lives lost due to this war but I do not feel that they were in vain.
Thanks for your time.
posted by bigcheesegump at 10:00 PM on February 27, 2007
bigcheesegump,
I think you really misunderstood the statements in this thread. I don't think I read anywhere a call for vigilante justice. I did read that many of us would be happy if Mr. Cheney were dead. Many of us, reasonable people, believe that Mr. Cheney is a criminal and a murderer. In my community, mostly 30 something professionals with families, this is a mainstream opinion.
150 comments in to a thread like this is no place to argue point by point what's wrong with the Bush Administration. Just don't be surprised when the widespread hatred of what these people have done to our country reveals itself, it shows that you really haven't been paying attention these past 6 years.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 10:26 PM on February 27, 2007
I think you really misunderstood the statements in this thread. I don't think I read anywhere a call for vigilante justice. I did read that many of us would be happy if Mr. Cheney were dead. Many of us, reasonable people, believe that Mr. Cheney is a criminal and a murderer. In my community, mostly 30 something professionals with families, this is a mainstream opinion.
150 comments in to a thread like this is no place to argue point by point what's wrong with the Bush Administration. Just don't be surprised when the widespread hatred of what these people have done to our country reveals itself, it shows that you really haven't been paying attention these past 6 years.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 10:26 PM on February 27, 2007
I appreciate your clarification. I am glad that I was wrong in my assumption about the tone of this post.
As a student of history, I am eager to see how these event are portrayed in the future. After seeing US and World history go through (seemingly) endless revisions and reinterpretations, it will be interesting to see how Bush and Co. will be remembered. While I hope it is (miraculously) for the better, I understand a negative rememberence, a la President Jackson and Hoover, is certainly deserved.
Appreciate your candor and ideas. Hope you have a great night.
posted by bigcheesegump at 10:56 PM on February 27, 2007
As a student of history, I am eager to see how these event are portrayed in the future. After seeing US and World history go through (seemingly) endless revisions and reinterpretations, it will be interesting to see how Bush and Co. will be remembered. While I hope it is (miraculously) for the better, I understand a negative rememberence, a la President Jackson and Hoover, is certainly deserved.
Appreciate your candor and ideas. Hope you have a great night.
posted by bigcheesegump at 10:56 PM on February 27, 2007
As I see it, 85% of the commenters on this post are head cases (or, giving them the benefit of the doubt, Europeans)
Fuck you too.
Signed,
An American in Europe.
posted by romakimmy at 2:08 AM on February 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
Fuck you too.
Signed,
An American in Europe.
posted by romakimmy at 2:08 AM on February 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
re ^
I'm not sure, but maybe he thinks we're plotting to kill Cheney in some kind of cryptic secret code.
posted by tehloki at 7:08 AM on February 28, 2007
I'm not sure, but maybe he thinks we're plotting to kill Cheney in some kind of cryptic secret code.
posted by tehloki at 7:08 AM on February 28, 2007
I truly hope that this fad fades as Americans realize that talking trash against their own country digs themselves into a deeper hole as opposed to moving toward a better future
Theodore Roosevelt (my emphasis):
The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else.The Bush administration illegally invaded Iraq on false pretenses, dishonored America by torturing and murdering prisoners at Abu Ghraib and other prisons, ran illegal wiretaps on Americans, arrested an American citizen on American soil and held him without trial in violation of his Constitutional rights, and runs a military prison where "detainees are accorded protections under the U.S. Constitution, 'except where curtailed by higher guidance,'" which also violates the Constitution.
Vice President Cheney lied about Iraq having nuclear weapons. He lied about Iraq having connections to Al Qaeda. He lied about our reasons for invading Iraq. He recently described Speaker Pelosi's opposition to the surge as validating the Al Qaeda strategy, when it's the Bush administration that approved a deal that gave Al Qaeda sanctuary in Pakistan and is supporting Sunni extremists that are sympathetic to Al Qaeda.
Some fad.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:34 AM on February 28, 2007 [5 favorites]
“This entire thing implies that we have leaks in our intelligence and protection schemes...”
Ya think? Part of the problem is the Paki’s knew about it. You can’t secure someone else’s organization.
“And you're having Al Queda claim responsibility AND announce that he was the de facto target?!”
Taliban.
(’Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!?’
‘...Germans?’ ‘Forget it, he’s on a roll.’)
posted by Smedleyman at 2:46 PM on February 28, 2007
Ya think? Part of the problem is the Paki’s knew about it. You can’t secure someone else’s organization.
“And you're having Al Queda claim responsibility AND announce that he was the de facto target?!”
Taliban.
(’Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!?’
‘...Germans?’ ‘Forget it, he’s on a roll.’)
posted by Smedleyman at 2:46 PM on February 28, 2007
“Vice President Cheney lied about Iraq having nuclear weapons. He lied about Iraq having connections to Al Qaeda. He lied about our reasons for invading Iraq....”
Vice President Cheney shot a man just for snorin’.
Vice President Cheney kicked my dog ‘Buddy’ and stole my momma’s heart medicine.
Vice President Cheney coats himself in goat blood and summons the lords of the ancient dark while sodomizing George “Lips” Bush.
...no, seriously.
Y’know what is comforting. Vice President Cheney is a man and does have a family and all that.
And so do I.
And tonight I’m going to go home and be with them and eat a nice dinner and play with my kids and no bombs are going to go off because no one hates me that much. And I know there are men in harms way now who don’t get to see their families, but I’ve been there too. And I know that our sacrifice was and is competely and utterly different from what Cheney does, so I sleep well.
And I don’t have to sweat over getting my stories straight because I don’t lie to anyone. And I don’t have to worry about protecting my political and business friends because they might sell me out.
And I don’t have to play ‘cover my ass’ physically and mentally every God damned second of every day and worry about betrayal or the blood on my hands and whether justice will catch up with me.
I get to just go home at the end of the day and tickle my daughter and we’ll laugh and laugh and laugh.
Enjoy Afghanistan Dick.
posted by Smedleyman at 3:11 PM on February 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
Vice President Cheney shot a man just for snorin’.
Vice President Cheney kicked my dog ‘Buddy’ and stole my momma’s heart medicine.
Vice President Cheney coats himself in goat blood and summons the lords of the ancient dark while sodomizing George “Lips” Bush.
...no, seriously.
Y’know what is comforting. Vice President Cheney is a man and does have a family and all that.
And so do I.
And tonight I’m going to go home and be with them and eat a nice dinner and play with my kids and no bombs are going to go off because no one hates me that much. And I know there are men in harms way now who don’t get to see their families, but I’ve been there too. And I know that our sacrifice was and is competely and utterly different from what Cheney does, so I sleep well.
And I don’t have to sweat over getting my stories straight because I don’t lie to anyone. And I don’t have to worry about protecting my political and business friends because they might sell me out.
And I don’t have to play ‘cover my ass’ physically and mentally every God damned second of every day and worry about betrayal or the blood on my hands and whether justice will catch up with me.
I get to just go home at the end of the day and tickle my daughter and we’ll laugh and laugh and laugh.
Enjoy Afghanistan Dick.
posted by Smedleyman at 3:11 PM on February 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
I had forgotten to Godwin myself earlier: How many people in Germany do you think were pissed off when the briefcase assassination attempt on Hitler failed? Should we always wish that our leaders stay alive and in power, no matter how awful they are?
posted by tehloki at 4:29 PM on February 28, 2007
posted by tehloki at 4:29 PM on February 28, 2007
Sayings of the Phuquetard Buddha (Also known as the Guantanamo Buddha.)
posted by homunculus at 12:38 AM on March 1, 2007
posted by homunculus at 12:38 AM on March 1, 2007
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