Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.
June 7, 2007 8:49 PM   Subscribe

A former CIA operative:
The thing they did with Mohammed is that we had captured his children, a boy and a girl, age 7 and 9. And at the darkest moment we threatened grievous injury to his children if he did not cooperate."
According to a serving CIA official in 2003:
We are handling them with kid gloves. After all, they are only little children...but we need to know as much about their father's recent activities as possible. We have child psychologists on hand at all times and they are given the best of care.
According to another CIA prisoner:
The Pakistani guards [said that] the boys [ages 6 or 8] were kept in a separate area upstairs, and were denied food and water by other guards. They were also mentally tortured by having ants or other creatures put on their legs to scare them and get them to say where their father was hiding.
According to George Bush, the CIA's secret prisons have been shut down. But A report released today by six international human rights organizations, documents at least 39 prisoners still unaccounted for. Some of them children. God Bless America. posted by orthogonality (34 comments total)

This post was deleted for the following reason: Don't do this here please. You know how use more inside. Don't bogart the front page with Iraqfilter torture posts. -- jessamyn

Cleanup in aisle 61878!
posted by jonson at 8:58 PM on June 7, 2007

If you want an empire, you can't have any scruples.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:58 PM on June 7, 2007 [1 favorite]

the war on terror only makes sense if we are better than them ... and by doing this, we're not
posted by pyramid termite at 9:00 PM on June 7, 2007

Surely surely this this.......
posted by JHarris at 9:01 PM on June 7, 2007

What would Jack Bauer do? ...I thought so.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:06 PM on June 7, 2007

if we've already captured mohammed's children then allah is just a few waterboards away.
posted by breakfast_yeti at 9:11 PM on June 7, 2007

BFD. Americans are torturers, film at 11.

Did anybody think they weren't?
posted by pompomtom at 9:11 PM on June 7, 2007

More like God Help America.
posted by Soliloquy at 9:11 PM on June 7, 2007

the war on terror only makes sense if...

No. It does not make sense.
posted by Artw at 9:14 PM on June 7, 2007

SPIEGEL ONLINE: So things were going well ... at least until the Iraq war?

Suskind: You can almost mark by the day how our human intelligence assets have withered. The chances of someone coming to the US authorities in this period are slim to none and that will blind us at a time when the terrorist threat has metastasized into what I call the franchise model.

posted by caddis at 9:14 PM on June 7, 2007

well hey! this is the perfect forum for... nevermind.
posted by breakfast_yeti at 9:16 PM on June 7, 2007

posted by taosbat at 9:22 PM on June 7, 2007

Ahura MazdaAllah | Bhagavan | Buddha | El | Igzi'abihier | Jah | Jesus | 上帝 | Yahweh | Waheguru | ζευς and so many more join with Rachel in her weeping!
posted by ericb at 9:29 PM on June 7, 2007 [1 favorite]

I feel ill. I wasn't even able to read the link in full.
posted by serazin at 9:40 PM on June 7, 2007

When the cancer has reached the thinking parts, there is no excising left to do. An inoperable tumor of corruption must bring the entire body down, as it makes the whole being sick and unable to resist of its own accord. Once the pathogenic entity has reached the center of reason, there is no need for reason any more, as it has already succumbed to a greater and more essential will than that of health, good spirit or the common struggle of all mankind to prevail over base pleasures of bloodshed and greed.

Requiescat in pace.
posted by isopraxis at 9:49 PM on June 7, 2007 [1 favorite]

posted by RussHy at 9:51 PM on June 7, 2007

People are actually surprised by this?
posted by delmoi at 9:53 PM on June 7, 2007


The only thing more horrible than the fact that it has happened is that nobody will stop it from happening again.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:23 PM on June 7, 2007

Not sure people should be saying 'yeah, I knew that, whatever..."

Every instance of this should be documented and brought to the attention of as many people as possible. Thanks, orthogonality.
posted by Turtles all the way down at 11:13 PM on June 7, 2007

And Pope Guilty I know your heart's in the right place, and you're unfortunately the example at hand, but I propose the the "X"-filter comments have outlived their usefulness, just as "vibrates" and "pancakes" have, and, please, "just sayin'."

I'm just sayin'. This kiddie torture: it vibrates?
posted by Turtles all the way down at 11:21 PM on June 7, 2007 [1 favorite]

What the hell is wrong with our government?
posted by letitrain at 11:44 PM on June 7, 2007

Suskind (first link) on the global response to 9/11:

There were candellight vigils in Tehran -- a nice marker of where much of the world was. Even virulent radicalized Islamists were saying: "That is not my Islam." And virtually all were saying, in unanimity, "Well, the United States is certainly justified in doing whatever it sees fit in Afghanistan with the Taliban and al-Qaida." If any goal of foreign policy is to unite your allies and divide your enemies, it is fair to say that we were successful. Even countries that were not naturally inclined to be helpful were being helpful, especially in the Arab World. Our allies said, "How can I help?"

Not new information or anything, but easy to forget six years on. I kind of had. Shit, if you'd made it your goal to piss away a generation of goodwill, you couldn't have done the job more thoroughly than the Bush gang has.

A brief Socratic exercise:

Q. Is there a word for the sensation of being simultaneously shocked to the point of mild nausea by the fine details of a turn of events and yet not surprised at all by the mix of hubris, incompetence and depravity that produced that very same turn of events?

A. No.

Q. There should be.

A. How does "Bushified" grab you?
posted by gompa at 11:48 PM on June 7, 2007 [1 favorite]

And yet people smart enough to comment on this very blog probably voted for the retard and company in 2004. How did that happen?

The story is sickening. Does Bush think he's Kaiser Soze?
posted by maxwelton at 12:08 AM on June 8, 2007

If you want an empire, you can't have any scruples.

I don't want an empire, and the founding father's didn't either.
posted by From Bklyn at 12:17 AM on June 8, 2007

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's not my batman glass.

You know, I'm starting to get the impression that voting for an inarticulate (read: brain damaged), draft-dodging, evangelical coke monkey frat boy with close ties to the most repressive theocracy on the planet and whose only accomplishments in life were handed to him by powerful friends of his father (who used to run the secret police) didn't turn out well for the country?

Gee, who could have ever seen that one coming?!?

You knew we were f*cked as a nation when one of the reasons voters had for liking the recovering alcoholic Bush was that he seemed like the kind of guy they'd enjoy having a beer with.

Giving beer to an alcoholic only just beats out having a syrup drinking contest with your diabetic friend or teaching your child how to shoot a gun. Sorry, bad example.

So I'm guessing somebody finally persuaded our alcoholic president to join them for a beer and the rest is history. As is our republic. Which reminds me of something Alexander Hamilton once said about power and corruption... crap, gotta run, American Idol is on.

(scoots off in Little Rascal)
posted by Davenhill at 12:44 AM on June 8, 2007 [3 favorites]

I don't want an empire, and the founding father's didn't either.

In case you haven't been paying attention the last six years, you don't matter, and neither do they.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 12:48 AM on June 8, 2007

In case you haven't been paying attention the last six years, you don't matter, and neither do they.

No, just all of his neighbors that voted for W. The American people don't matter? The American people gave us this. Humans, at large, like to feel safe above all else.

Personally, I'm still excited about the Russkies.
posted by Roman Graves at 1:02 AM on June 8, 2007

Humans, at large, like to feel safe above all else.

That's feel safe, not be safe.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 1:44 AM on June 8, 2007

Secret Prisons in Europe Confirmed
posted by adamvasco at 1:45 AM on June 8, 2007

I'm intrigued by "hot waterboarding". Aside from the fact that it reminds me of "full board, hot and cold running water".

So you strap someone to a board and dip them in water. Cold water shocks them, they probably inhale a little water etc. Tepid water is marginally less awful than cold water. So it must mean uncomfortably hot. I wonder exactly where on the centigrade chart those bathtubs are at before the "unlawful combatants" get dipped into them.
posted by imperium at 2:09 AM on June 8, 2007

Oh, and The president loves to talk to operators. Where operators means torturers.

Of course he does. Every emperor loves his hooded torturers, who fight his most intimate battles right in the body of the enemy. The torturer is the lone commando behind enemy lines, the turned agent in the court of the other side. And the medals given to them have to be private ones.
posted by imperium at 2:12 AM on June 8, 2007

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.


Cleanup in aisle 61878!

oh come on, it's not that orthogonality copied-and-pasted some dumb, middlebrow piece of shit of a link from digg and posted it to the front page here; I say we cut him a little slack.
posted by matteo at 3:45 AM on June 8, 2007

"What the hell is wrong with our government?"

This statement is exactly what is wrong..the problem isn't with our govenment, it is with us!

We are complacient, we don't care, we are comfortable and don't want to spend hours, days, weeks, or months protesting this in D.C., in your home town, around the world.

The problem does not rest with "government", it rests with us.
posted by HuronBob at 4:40 AM on June 8, 2007

The problem does not rest with "government", it rests with us.

Yes. Specifically, in that "you" (collectively) think of your government as an entity separate from yourselves, which you do not control, and for whose actions you are not responsible. None of those things are actually true. Any truth they may have, is due to malfeasance and corruption.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 4:47 AM on June 8, 2007

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