Why not wine?
December 1, 2008 6:09 AM Subscribe
The debate over wine in Tennessee grocery stores rages on! Both sides have reasonable arguments. We've all heard that wine is good for us, but won't anyone think of the children? Popular opinion seems to favor the bill but there has been a lot of back and forth already.
funny you should have "facts" in quotes when i never said that the public opinion reflected in the poll was a "fact". this isn't hard journalism, it's something interested to read and consider. relax.
posted by JVA at 6:26 AM on December 1, 2008
posted by JVA at 6:26 AM on December 1, 2008
Whoa whoa whoa, stop shootin', Tex! Did you even open your own links?
posted by DU at 6:29 AM on December 1, 2008
posted by DU at 6:29 AM on December 1, 2008
haha, sorry. i'm a dick and have low reading-comprehension skills. i actually agree with you.
posted by JVA at 6:44 AM on December 1, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by JVA at 6:44 AM on December 1, 2008 [2 favorites]
Clearly, we must keep wine out of the hands of as many Tennesseans as possible. Do we really want to go from this to this?
posted by burnmp3s at 6:49 AM on December 1, 2008
posted by burnmp3s at 6:49 AM on December 1, 2008
Remids me of a few years back when the TN legislature was debating a 1% income tax on the highest income earners so a (overpaid, billious) radio talk-jocks purposefully misinformed the public that this was a general tax increase to incite their ire and told them to picket the legislature. For days the capitol was the scene of loud, rude, non-stop protests by unemployed hill people that would not have been affected negatively in the least by the tax and in fact would not have had to have had their TennCare scaled back.
That and the continuous choruses of Rocky Top every few minutes for weeks after the UT national championship had me looking for work in other, quieter locales.
posted by Pollomacho at 6:55 AM on December 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
That and the continuous choruses of Rocky Top every few minutes for weeks after the UT national championship had me looking for work in other, quieter locales.
posted by Pollomacho at 6:55 AM on December 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
We recently got wine in supermarkets here in NY. I don't know if it's because they don't think they could sell anything better or because of some restriction in the legislation, but the only wine I've ever seen is a $3.99 bottle of Chateau Diana which comes in white, red, pink, and sangria. This is not in the same league as even a $10 bottle of Yellow Tail. Liquor stores have nothing to worry about.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:06 AM on December 1, 2008
posted by uncleozzy at 7:06 AM on December 1, 2008
insert FTFY version of Pollomacho's comment substituting "months" for "years" and and "US" for "TN" here
posted by DU at 7:10 AM on December 1, 2008
posted by DU at 7:10 AM on December 1, 2008
How strange. We've had wine in supermarkets here in Greenville, South Carolina since I can remember -- only just recently allowed on Sundays (the business has to pay an extra fee). In general, you find a pretty good variety in supermarkets, a hundred or so types, ranging from $3 swill to $40+ bottles. It's nice to not have to make a separate trip.
posted by LordSludge at 7:18 AM on December 1, 2008
posted by LordSludge at 7:18 AM on December 1, 2008
Do the same as in Quebec, where wine is sold in convenience and grocery stores, but only the $10 a bottle stuff, so anything beyond table wine requires a trip to the liquor store. As an additional incentive, tax is included at the liquor store but added on at the cash at grocery stores.
posted by furtive at 7:20 AM on December 1, 2008
posted by furtive at 7:20 AM on December 1, 2008
We recently got wine in supermarkets here in NY. I don't know if it's because they don't think they could sell anything better or because of some restriction in the legislation, but the only wine I've ever seen is a $3.99 bottle of Chateau Diana which comes in white, red, pink, and sangria. This is not in the same league as even a $10 bottle of Yellow Tail. Liquor stores have nothing to worry about.
Chateau Diana has nothing to do with actual wine. It's actually a "wine product"--i.e., Kool-Aid with booze in it.
posted by nasreddin at 7:20 AM on December 1, 2008
Wait... as a Tennessean myself, this is confusing. Tennessee grocery stores already carry beer and liquor, so why not wine? It is not magically easier for kids to get their hands on wine than it is beer. Plus, I didn't realize that the tweens these days were into Pinot Noir. That whole "protect the children" side of the argument is insanity.
posted by joshrholloway at 7:21 AM on December 1, 2008
posted by joshrholloway at 7:21 AM on December 1, 2008
I'm puzzled by the assertion that "Both sides have reasonable arguments", both links to a pro-wine site, the other links to the assignation of booze stores which as a vested financial interest in limiting people to going to their stores and doesn't appear to offer any reasonable arguments against the proposed bill. Did I miss something, were you being sarcastic?
posted by sotonohito at 7:25 AM on December 1, 2008
posted by sotonohito at 7:25 AM on December 1, 2008
joshrholloway, where in TN? I'm in Nashville and we've only got beer in our grocery stores. our liquor and wine is all located in liquor stores. the whole thing is really weird. there's a "beer side" and a "liquor and wine" side of some of the stores I frequent, so you have to go in one entrance, then leave, then enter a different entrance for the other side. crazy world.
lordsludge, i'm envious of your ability to buy wine on sundays. dammit.
posted by JVA at 7:26 AM on December 1, 2008
lordsludge, i'm envious of your ability to buy wine on sundays. dammit.
posted by JVA at 7:26 AM on December 1, 2008
You're probably right about there not being liquor in grocery stores, JVA. Considering I'm not a drinker myself, my definition of "liquor" may be wrong.
posted by joshrholloway at 7:29 AM on December 1, 2008
posted by joshrholloway at 7:29 AM on December 1, 2008
The South is so weird. I was in Charleston, South Carolina, once a few years ago and all the liquor at proper bars are sold in plastic airline/hotel mini-bottles. So you go into a nice hotel bar and as you approach the bar there behind the bartender are rows and rows of tiny plastic bottles. I wanted to ask the bartender about it, but the whole thing seemed embarrassing.
posted by plexi at 7:30 AM on December 1, 2008
posted by plexi at 7:30 AM on December 1, 2008
Chateau Diana has nothing to do with actual wine. It's actually a "wine product"--i.e., Kool-Aid with booze in it.
Wow. So it is classed as wine, though? I mean, if it's not malt-based, it's not beer. If supermarkets can sell this, why wouldn't they sell actual wine? The mind boggles.
That whole "protect the children" side of the argument is insanity.
Plus, I get carded every single time I buy beer at the supermarket. Usually the kid calls over a manager because he's underage. In liquor stores I get carded maybe one time in ten. And I look very, very young.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:30 AM on December 1, 2008
Wow. So it is classed as wine, though? I mean, if it's not malt-based, it's not beer. If supermarkets can sell this, why wouldn't they sell actual wine? The mind boggles.
That whole "protect the children" side of the argument is insanity.
Plus, I get carded every single time I buy beer at the supermarket. Usually the kid calls over a manager because he's underage. In liquor stores I get carded maybe one time in ten. And I look very, very young.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:30 AM on December 1, 2008
I was in Charleston, South Carolina, once a few years ago and all the liquor at proper bars are sold in plastic airline/hotel mini-bottles.
They actually changed this in Jan 2006. There were some great stories around that time about how the bartenders had no idea how to pour standard shots, other than "take the cap off and empty it".
posted by smackfu at 7:34 AM on December 1, 2008
They actually changed this in Jan 2006. There were some great stories around that time about how the bartenders had no idea how to pour standard shots, other than "take the cap off and empty it".
posted by smackfu at 7:34 AM on December 1, 2008
In Ontario some grocery stores and shopping malls have wine boutiques. Beyond that all other wine and hard liquor sales are controlled by the state owned Liquor Control Board of Ontario. They've recently redone many of the outlets - they're pretty classy, and it's the only government department that makes a profit. A substantial one at that.
posted by CynicalKnight at 7:35 AM on December 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by CynicalKnight at 7:35 AM on December 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
joshrholloway: Uh, I dunno where you are getting your information, but grocery stores are certainly NOT allowed to sell liquor in Tennessee.
Also: This is a terrible post.
posted by absalom at 7:35 AM on December 1, 2008
Also: This is a terrible post.
posted by absalom at 7:35 AM on December 1, 2008
Sigh, we're never going to have wine (or beer for that matter) in supermarkets in PA but I'd settle for just being able to buy beer and wine in the same store and being allowed to buy less than a case of beer at a time. But I'm not holding my breath.
posted by octothorpe at 7:39 AM on December 1, 2008
posted by octothorpe at 7:39 AM on December 1, 2008
They actually changed this in Jan 2006.
posted by smackfu at 9:34 AM on December 1
ah, thanks smackfu!
posted by plexi at 7:42 AM on December 1, 2008
posted by smackfu at 9:34 AM on December 1
ah, thanks smackfu!
posted by plexi at 7:42 AM on December 1, 2008
I was once berated by a Collegedale, Tennessee supermarket clerk for living in Los Angeles. "You should stay here," she scolded me, "it's a better place to live." I was only visiting friends, I insisted. "Doesn't matter," she said, "you should stay here."
They don't need to sell wine in grocery stores in the Volunteer State.
posted by infinitewindow at 7:54 AM on December 1, 2008
They don't need to sell wine in grocery stores in the Volunteer State.
posted by infinitewindow at 7:54 AM on December 1, 2008
While visiting over break, caught this nugget in the newspaper regarding disposal of confiscated moonshine in Unicoi.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 8:06 AM on December 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
(Unicoi County Sheriff) Harris said the Mason jars will be donated to churches that will use them as containers for more legal items, such as apple butter. That, of course, is after they have been suitably cleaned. “What were supposed to be containers for the devil’s brew probably will be used to forward the work of the Lord, so that’s probably a good thing,” said Assistant District Attorney General Fred Lance, who helped pour the moonshine out of the jars.When I read this, I was reminded of the condemned man's soliloquy in Hang 'Em High.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 8:06 AM on December 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
We've had wine in supermarkets in Indiana for ages. Now, we have booze, too.
Hell, here in Muncie, the supermarkets are the only places with a decent selection of affordable wines, and it's not all cheap plonk, either. The local liquor stores have pretty much conceded the market, save for the couple of stores still stocking the $40-60 bottles of Vin de Poseur.
Whoda thunk Indiana would be ahead of Tennessee in the "entering the twentieth century" race? Of course, we still can't buy the stuff on Sundays. Can't buy cars on Sunday either.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:07 AM on December 1, 2008
Hell, here in Muncie, the supermarkets are the only places with a decent selection of affordable wines, and it's not all cheap plonk, either. The local liquor stores have pretty much conceded the market, save for the couple of stores still stocking the $40-60 bottles of Vin de Poseur.
Whoda thunk Indiana would be ahead of Tennessee in the "entering the twentieth century" race? Of course, we still can't buy the stuff on Sundays. Can't buy cars on Sunday either.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:07 AM on December 1, 2008
Colorado just allowed liquor sales on Sundays this year. Before, all you could get was 3.2% beverages, which is available in convenience stores and supermarkets. You still have to go to a liquor store for anything more than 3.2%.
Even after living here nearly 15 years, the Sunday thing would continually mess me up. Get invited to dinner on Sunday, and think about getting a bottle of wine to bring, and DENIED! In California it was great. You could go to the supermarket, get your toilet paper, Cheez-its, and fifth of vodka all in one store. Only thing more liberal in Colorado is we can buy Everclear here. For some reason that's not allowed in California.
posted by Eekacat at 8:10 AM on December 1, 2008
Even after living here nearly 15 years, the Sunday thing would continually mess me up. Get invited to dinner on Sunday, and think about getting a bottle of wine to bring, and DENIED! In California it was great. You could go to the supermarket, get your toilet paper, Cheez-its, and fifth of vodka all in one store. Only thing more liberal in Colorado is we can buy Everclear here. For some reason that's not allowed in California.
posted by Eekacat at 8:10 AM on December 1, 2008
Jesus Christ. Not trying to snark here, but you’d think those responsible for shaping Tennessee’s laws (on both sides of the argument) would be able to construct a proper sentence.
Read this mess of an introductory line from the TWSRA link above:
“Our current efforts include fighting attempts to increase our teens' access to alcohol and hurt our state's small business.”
Here’s State Sen. Bill Ketron, (R-Murfreesboro), who has written the legislation to change the state's wine regulations (As quoted in the Tennessean link):
"We wanted everyone who has a relationship to wine to have a voice at the table, whether they're a retailer, wholesaler, shipper or just a consumer."
Read a few of the ‘anti-wine’ comments on the knoxville.wate.com site and blood might shoot out of your nose.
I lived in Tennessee for five years (back in the 80s, when blue laws in our county said no stores – none – could be opened on Sundays). I hope the inhabitants of this beautiful state can win this fight against the state’s liquor lobby, just as I hope someday you can be liberated from the glut of unnecessary laws passed by uneducated, religious hillbillies in the state legislature who administer this agenda of ignorance. Finally, I also hope you can all learn to speak and write in your mother tongue correctly.
posted by tiger yang at 8:12 AM on December 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
Read this mess of an introductory line from the TWSRA link above:
“Our current efforts include fighting attempts to increase our teens' access to alcohol and hurt our state's small business.”
Here’s State Sen. Bill Ketron, (R-Murfreesboro), who has written the legislation to change the state's wine regulations (As quoted in the Tennessean link):
"We wanted everyone who has a relationship to wine to have a voice at the table, whether they're a retailer, wholesaler, shipper or just a consumer."
Read a few of the ‘anti-wine’ comments on the knoxville.wate.com site and blood might shoot out of your nose.
I lived in Tennessee for five years (back in the 80s, when blue laws in our county said no stores – none – could be opened on Sundays). I hope the inhabitants of this beautiful state can win this fight against the state’s liquor lobby, just as I hope someday you can be liberated from the glut of unnecessary laws passed by uneducated, religious hillbillies in the state legislature who administer this agenda of ignorance. Finally, I also hope you can all learn to speak and write in your mother tongue correctly.
posted by tiger yang at 8:12 AM on December 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
This from the state that legalized roadkill consumption.
As a TN native, nothing that the state government does surprises me any more.
posted by infinitefloatingbrains at 8:20 AM on December 1, 2008
As a TN native, nothing that the state government does surprises me any more.
posted by infinitefloatingbrains at 8:20 AM on December 1, 2008
Here in Georgia we've had beer and wine in grocery stores for decades. I was buying wine by the jug at Winn-Dixie 30 years ago (no, not for me, I could barely carry the damn thing). Now many grocery stores will stock a better selection than most of the package stores (often an entire grocery aisle is beer on one side, wine on the other), although if you want truly high-end wine you'll want to head to a specialty store like Pearsons. Of course, we can't buy on Sundays because of the blue laws, but that doesn't inconvenience most folks past their second or third week here.
posted by notashroom at 8:22 AM on December 1, 2008
posted by notashroom at 8:22 AM on December 1, 2008
Both sides have reasonable arguments.
Teach the controversy!
I always thought Maine had a good system; it was nominally "State-run" but in practice, at least in recent years, you could buy pretty much any sort of alcohol you wanted at just about any grocery or even drug store. CVS had a full-on liquor aisle.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:30 AM on December 1, 2008
Teach the controversy!
I always thought Maine had a good system; it was nominally "State-run" but in practice, at least in recent years, you could buy pretty much any sort of alcohol you wanted at just about any grocery or even drug store. CVS had a full-on liquor aisle.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:30 AM on December 1, 2008
An alcoholic drink is an alcoholic drink. If it's bad to sell wine in a grocery store, it's bad to sell beer there.
But this is just a propaganda war between two kinds of retail business fighting for the same market segment. If liquor stores lose their monopoly and grocery stores start selling wine, wine sales at liquor stores will drop and marginally profitable liquor stores will close or adjust, but good liquor stores will stay open because they'll have a good selection of wine and hard liquor.
posted by pracowity at 8:32 AM on December 1, 2008
But this is just a propaganda war between two kinds of retail business fighting for the same market segment. If liquor stores lose their monopoly and grocery stores start selling wine, wine sales at liquor stores will drop and marginally profitable liquor stores will close or adjust, but good liquor stores will stay open because they'll have a good selection of wine and hard liquor.
posted by pracowity at 8:32 AM on December 1, 2008
Something else that I've always found ironic growing up in the south is how it is that the same people that are in favor of "dry" laws are also huge NASCAR fans, a sport based on the early practice of outrunning "revenuers" in souped-up "stock" cars.
posted by Pollomacho at 8:56 AM on December 1, 2008
posted by Pollomacho at 8:56 AM on December 1, 2008
Maybe I shouldn't complain so much about Washington state and it's communist style booze stores.
posted by Artw at 9:11 AM on December 1, 2008
posted by Artw at 9:11 AM on December 1, 2008
One weird one is NY state, which doesn't allow liquor stores to sell beer.
posted by smackfu at 9:11 AM on December 1, 2008
posted by smackfu at 9:11 AM on December 1, 2008
Aw, poor Tennesseeans. Out here in Californey we have free access to alcohol and can buy it where we please because we have freedom. We got it in the deal when we all signed up to be godless heathens.
posted by mullingitover at 9:13 AM on December 1, 2008 [4 favorites]
posted by mullingitover at 9:13 AM on December 1, 2008 [4 favorites]
Maybe I shouldn't complain so much about Washington state and it's communist style booze stores.
They are worse than Pennsylvania state stores. I didn't think such a thing was possible, but it's true.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:30 AM on December 1, 2008
They are worse than Pennsylvania state stores. I didn't think such a thing was possible, but it's true.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:30 AM on December 1, 2008
what a survey says people THINK would happen if the drinking age were lowered
On this aspect, this chart from one of my earlier FPPs should be instructive.
posted by daksya at 9:30 AM on December 1, 2008
On this aspect, this chart from one of my earlier FPPs should be instructive.
posted by daksya at 9:30 AM on December 1, 2008
What’s the deal with 21 anyway? It’s like it’s so stupidly high it’s designed to be ignored.
posted by Artw at 9:33 AM on December 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 9:33 AM on December 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
Artw writes "It’s like it’s so stupidly high it’s designed to be ignored."
It's an important lesson for the youth: it's not illegal if you don't get caught. Alcohol laws are an instrument for teaching moral philosophy.
posted by mullingitover at 9:38 AM on December 1, 2008
It's an important lesson for the youth: it's not illegal if you don't get caught. Alcohol laws are an instrument for teaching moral philosophy.
posted by mullingitover at 9:38 AM on December 1, 2008
What’s the deal with 21 anyway? It’s like it’s so stupidly high it’s designed to be ignored.
I've recently concluded that the 21 age limit is actually a clever success by anarchists, designed to ensure that people's first adult impression of law and authority is a negative one - that it stands for pointless, impotent oppression, rather than healthy and reasonable regulation.
posted by Tomorrowful at 9:43 AM on December 1, 2008 [6 favorites]
I've recently concluded that the 21 age limit is actually a clever success by anarchists, designed to ensure that people's first adult impression of law and authority is a negative one - that it stands for pointless, impotent oppression, rather than healthy and reasonable regulation.
posted by Tomorrowful at 9:43 AM on December 1, 2008 [6 favorites]
[groucho mode=wavingcigar mode=wagglingeyebrows]
Immoral flexibility even more!
[/groucho]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:49 AM on December 1, 2008 [4 favorites]
Immoral flexibility even more!
[/groucho]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:49 AM on December 1, 2008 [4 favorites]
Ah, the joys of liquor laws. I have memories of Sunday morning supermarket shopping Austin, wandering around the store until noon so I could finally buy wine. Going to the sterile ABC stores in North Carolina and Virginia for the hard stuff but getting my first legal six-pack at Krogers. Having to order food in Evanston if I wanted alcohol in a restaurant. Crossing the border from Delaware to Maryland on Sunday mornings to get vodka for hair-of-the-dog Bloody Marys. Buying anything I wanted in California. And having to have the (disgusting) concept of 3:2 beer explained to me in Colorado.
I've still managed to get drunk in every state I've lived in. It's just on my to-do list for each move: find DMV, set up utilities, explore logistics for getting my drunk on . . .
posted by bibliowench at 10:02 AM on December 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
I've still managed to get drunk in every state I've lived in. It's just on my to-do list for each move: find DMV, set up utilities, explore logistics for getting my drunk on . . .
posted by bibliowench at 10:02 AM on December 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
The only problem with grocery stores selling wine, is that if the cashier is underage, the line will slow to a halt while someone else is brought over to check the id.
posted by drezdn at 10:25 AM on December 1, 2008
posted by drezdn at 10:25 AM on December 1, 2008
Having lived in Pennsylvania and New York (no wine in markets,) and California (wine in markets,) when I moved to Quebec for a time, and saw wine in the markets, I thought that settled it.
Then I became disappointed with the crap wines, until it was pointed out to me that only wines imported in bulk tankers and bottled in Quebec could be sold in markets, and every other wine in the world was available over the hill at the state run liquor stores.
posted by StickyCarpet at 10:41 AM on December 1, 2008
Then I became disappointed with the crap wines, until it was pointed out to me that only wines imported in bulk tankers and bottled in Quebec could be sold in markets, and every other wine in the world was available over the hill at the state run liquor stores.
posted by StickyCarpet at 10:41 AM on December 1, 2008
The only problem with grocery stores selling wine, is that if the cashier is underage, the line will slow to a halt while someone else is brought over to check the id.
In some stores I go into if the clerk is underage they will just ask you to scan the liquor for them, as if this some how circumvents the act of them selling you the liquor. I don't know the legality of this, but it is convenient as far as speed for me so I don't complain.
posted by MrBobaFett at 10:53 AM on December 1, 2008
In some stores I go into if the clerk is underage they will just ask you to scan the liquor for them, as if this some how circumvents the act of them selling you the liquor. I don't know the legality of this, but it is convenient as far as speed for me so I don't complain.
posted by MrBobaFett at 10:53 AM on December 1, 2008
Never understood liquor laws in most States. In Ohio, wine has been available at grocery stores as long as I can remember, but they can't start sales until 1pm or so on Sunday, which I suppose is a leftover from Prohibition. You have to go to a State Liquor Agent(all privatized now, as far as I know)for the hard stuff, but that never stopped us as teens.
Hell, Giant Eagle stores here even peddle Dom and Cristal, and some of them even have a liquor agency too, right in the store.
posted by spirit72 at 10:57 AM on December 1, 2008
Hell, Giant Eagle stores here even peddle Dom and Cristal, and some of them even have a liquor agency too, right in the store.
posted by spirit72 at 10:57 AM on December 1, 2008
Just out of curiosity I wonder how many of these liquor store owners in TN asking the government to regulate commerce to prevent competition consider themselves Republicans. Y'know the people who just want government to get out of the way. In this case I would agree with them, let the stores sell what they want.
posted by MrBobaFett at 10:58 AM on December 1, 2008
posted by MrBobaFett at 10:58 AM on December 1, 2008
I moved from Wisconsin to Illinois and I was shocked that you could a) buy alcohol after 9 pm, b) buy it in grocery stores, and c) buy it in gas stations. Yet it's Wisconsin that has the drinking problem?
posted by desjardins at 11:07 AM on December 1, 2008
posted by desjardins at 11:07 AM on December 1, 2008
Perhaps if we could protect the children by, say, prohibiting alcohol altogether? That’s never been tried, has it? I think it would work out great.
Y’know, not to jump on the ‘bash the rednecks’ bandwagon, but you’d think folks who were used to living pretty far off the grid would want the government off their necks.
It’d piss me off if I couldn’t go into a store and buy some wine when I wanted or if I owned a store, some sheriff telling me when and where I could sell my legal to sell product.
Some liquor salesman tells the government he can’t compete with my store if I sell wine, so their oughta be a law? And people are ok with that? Did I miss where we stopped paying even lip service to free trade and competition?
Here in Chicagoland, we can pretty much buy whatever legal product we want, whenever and wherever someone wants to sell it to us. (Yeah, ok, foi gras, but that’s a whole other thing, anyway, it was overturned. Can’t say I’m happy with that tho. Don’t much care for animal cruelty)
We even got swimmin’ holes and ice rinks for the youngins’ subsidized by - yep - tax dollars. Kind of the way you’d want gubmint to work, I’d think.
“This from the state that legalized roadkill consumption”
This, actually, makes sense to me. It’s a shame to just dispose of perfectly good meat - depending on how it was killed of course. If someone knows how to dress out the carcass safely, shouldn’t be a problem (fecal matter in a full on hit can blow the meat).
(And given that it’s not purposefully done of course, if your car just happens to keep hitting deer, and you just happen to have a salt lick in your trunk...)
But how do you think other animals are killed? Sharp smack to the head, cut their throats, etc. Not that much different from a sideswipe to the head from a moving vehicle.
Sounds gross, but to me the weird part is they don’t want the state telling them they can’t eat roadkill, but having the state come in and limit wine (not booze) is ok.
Don’t folks make homemade wine? (It’s illegal to do that here, but my grandfather makes it.)
posted by Smedleyman at 11:13 AM on December 1, 2008
Y’know, not to jump on the ‘bash the rednecks’ bandwagon, but you’d think folks who were used to living pretty far off the grid would want the government off their necks.
It’d piss me off if I couldn’t go into a store and buy some wine when I wanted or if I owned a store, some sheriff telling me when and where I could sell my legal to sell product.
Some liquor salesman tells the government he can’t compete with my store if I sell wine, so their oughta be a law? And people are ok with that? Did I miss where we stopped paying even lip service to free trade and competition?
Here in Chicagoland, we can pretty much buy whatever legal product we want, whenever and wherever someone wants to sell it to us. (Yeah, ok, foi gras, but that’s a whole other thing, anyway, it was overturned. Can’t say I’m happy with that tho. Don’t much care for animal cruelty)
We even got swimmin’ holes and ice rinks for the youngins’ subsidized by - yep - tax dollars. Kind of the way you’d want gubmint to work, I’d think.
“This from the state that legalized roadkill consumption”
This, actually, makes sense to me. It’s a shame to just dispose of perfectly good meat - depending on how it was killed of course. If someone knows how to dress out the carcass safely, shouldn’t be a problem (fecal matter in a full on hit can blow the meat).
(And given that it’s not purposefully done of course, if your car just happens to keep hitting deer, and you just happen to have a salt lick in your trunk...)
But how do you think other animals are killed? Sharp smack to the head, cut their throats, etc. Not that much different from a sideswipe to the head from a moving vehicle.
Sounds gross, but to me the weird part is they don’t want the state telling them they can’t eat roadkill, but having the state come in and limit wine (not booze) is ok.
Don’t folks make homemade wine? (It’s illegal to do that here, but my grandfather makes it.)
posted by Smedleyman at 11:13 AM on December 1, 2008
Ah, Tennessee. I've lived here all my life. Lemme tell you how it is.
Tennessee is absolutely eat up with the Jesus. There is an overwhelming majority of people in this state who think that anything they do, any attitude they hold, anything they say is automatically right and good because they are Good Christians. If you hold a differing view, you're not a Good Christian, even if you go to a church that claims to be Christian. I was raised Church of Christ, who consider Southern Baptists to be filthy, hellbound liberals. Not only does C of C not use real wine in their communion, but they refuse to even use instrumental music in church. They think this is a sign of their purity, but in fact it is just another symptom of their violent xenophobia.
Tennessee was the testing ground for the race-baiting tactics that McCain turned to in the waning days of the campaign. And it worked. Harold Ford, Jr. lost in 2006, and McCain carried the state by 15 points, and the Republicans took over the state legislature. Luckily, McCain's assumption that the rest of the country was like Tennessee was proven totally wrong.
This wine controversy is a perfect example of what's wrong with this state. It's really about two different groups of well-off businessmen trying to maximize their profits, but it's being sold as a crusade against immorality. Never mind that the state is ridiculously poor, as long as you can wrap your issue in Jesus or race, you'll get your way.
posted by vibrotronica at 11:36 AM on December 1, 2008 [7 favorites]
Tennessee is absolutely eat up with the Jesus. There is an overwhelming majority of people in this state who think that anything they do, any attitude they hold, anything they say is automatically right and good because they are Good Christians. If you hold a differing view, you're not a Good Christian, even if you go to a church that claims to be Christian. I was raised Church of Christ, who consider Southern Baptists to be filthy, hellbound liberals. Not only does C of C not use real wine in their communion, but they refuse to even use instrumental music in church. They think this is a sign of their purity, but in fact it is just another symptom of their violent xenophobia.
Tennessee was the testing ground for the race-baiting tactics that McCain turned to in the waning days of the campaign. And it worked. Harold Ford, Jr. lost in 2006, and McCain carried the state by 15 points, and the Republicans took over the state legislature. Luckily, McCain's assumption that the rest of the country was like Tennessee was proven totally wrong.
This wine controversy is a perfect example of what's wrong with this state. It's really about two different groups of well-off businessmen trying to maximize their profits, but it's being sold as a crusade against immorality. Never mind that the state is ridiculously poor, as long as you can wrap your issue in Jesus or race, you'll get your way.
posted by vibrotronica at 11:36 AM on December 1, 2008 [7 favorites]
I was shocked that you could a) buy alcohol after 9 pm, b) buy it in grocery stores, and c) buy it in gas stations. Yet it's Wisconsin that has the drinking problem?
Heh. See also Scandinavia, where they attempt to tax booze into oblivion and yet everyone drinks themselves blind anyway.
posted by Artw at 11:42 AM on December 1, 2008
Heh. See also Scandinavia, where they attempt to tax booze into oblivion and yet everyone drinks themselves blind anyway.
posted by Artw at 11:42 AM on December 1, 2008
I still think it's a travesty I can't buy Yuengling in Massachusetts. It's criminal, I tell you!
posted by backseatpilot at 12:22 PM on December 1, 2008
posted by backseatpilot at 12:22 PM on December 1, 2008
TN may be stupid but at least we've got yuengling.
posted by JVA at 12:46 PM on December 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by JVA at 12:46 PM on December 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
Tenessee needs to learn to stretch the loopholes.
Here in "The mall's open on Sundays now!" Nova Scotia, grocery stores can NOT!!!! sell booze. That said, many grocery stores have government-run liquor stores attached to them, many of which are accessed from within the grocery store itself.
This arrangement seems silly on the surface, but it's actually really practical. The liquor store has its own entrance, albeit within the grocery store; this operates much like those swinging saloon doors to the "adult" section in video rental places, in that it's trickier for obviously underaged people to go unnoticed than it would be in the grocery store proper. And since it's a wholly separate business, it's easier to regulate, and the workers are all of age and unionized to boot.
The drawback is that it's tricky to buy a twofour when you're carrying eight bags of groceries.
(Tobacco is where our local regulations get really crazy.)
posted by Sys Rq at 12:51 PM on December 1, 2008
Here in "The mall's open on Sundays now!" Nova Scotia, grocery stores can NOT!!!! sell booze. That said, many grocery stores have government-run liquor stores attached to them, many of which are accessed from within the grocery store itself.
This arrangement seems silly on the surface, but it's actually really practical. The liquor store has its own entrance, albeit within the grocery store; this operates much like those swinging saloon doors to the "adult" section in video rental places, in that it's trickier for obviously underaged people to go unnoticed than it would be in the grocery store proper. And since it's a wholly separate business, it's easier to regulate, and the workers are all of age and unionized to boot.
The drawback is that it's tricky to buy a twofour when you're carrying eight bags of groceries.
(Tobacco is where our local regulations get really crazy.)
posted by Sys Rq at 12:51 PM on December 1, 2008
I remember when living in WV, liquor could only be sold in ABCC stores. wine and bear was available at some grocery stores but could only be purchased Mon-Sat until 9 PM. Nothing on Sundays ('cause God doesn't want you to drink on the sabbath. . . good thing that there is no scriptural reference to Jesus drinking, huh?). Now that I live in California, I just laugh at the luddites that want to regulate when adults can buy whatever they want to drink.
posted by anansi at 1:16 PM on December 1, 2008
posted by anansi at 1:16 PM on December 1, 2008
I didn't see this mentioned in the Commercial Appeal article, so does anyone know if this proposed legislation will also allow beer sales in liquor stores?
When I moved to Memphis last year one of the first things we did was go find one of the nice, locally-owned liquor stores to see what kind of interesting microbrews we could buy.
Nope, sorry, they can't sell beer in the same place that they sell wine and liquor. Huh? So, since I am just not a wine drinker, I buy my beer in the corporate-owned grocery stores instead of patronizing local businesses.
I would much rather buy my beer from the local wine/liquor store that is a block from my apartment than drive to Kroger. So please, Jesusland, change the laws and let everyone compete on equal terms.
Oy!
posted by DiscourseMarker at 1:33 PM on December 1, 2008
When I moved to Memphis last year one of the first things we did was go find one of the nice, locally-owned liquor stores to see what kind of interesting microbrews we could buy.
Nope, sorry, they can't sell beer in the same place that they sell wine and liquor. Huh? So, since I am just not a wine drinker, I buy my beer in the corporate-owned grocery stores instead of patronizing local businesses.
I would much rather buy my beer from the local wine/liquor store that is a block from my apartment than drive to Kroger. So please, Jesusland, change the laws and let everyone compete on equal terms.
Oy!
posted by DiscourseMarker at 1:33 PM on December 1, 2008
At the Freddie's near my place, they have a small locked cabinet with all the high-end wines, including some more than $250.00/bottle sparkling vintages. I've always wondered how many people buy such expensive wine at the grocery store, as I walk out with my $10/bottle, on sale for $6 =)
posted by nomisxid at 1:54 PM on December 1, 2008
posted by nomisxid at 1:54 PM on December 1, 2008
No, the proposed legislation will not allow beer in liquor stores, although they can and do already sell "big beers" (beers with higher-than-normal alcohol content). But since you're in Memphis, you can get Ghost River Beer, an excellent beer which is made by the same people who run Boscos, but which can't be sold under the Boscos name because of Tennessee's arcane liquor laws.
posted by vibrotronica at 1:54 PM on December 1, 2008
posted by vibrotronica at 1:54 PM on December 1, 2008
Just as another "so crazy!" data point:
In PA, beer distributors aren't allowed to sell six-packs. I'm unsure if bars are forbidden to sell cases, but I've never actually encountered a business that actually sells both six-packs and larger boxes. But in any case, they can only sell beer, not wine or hard liquor.
These, of course, are in a state monopoly, which prevents you from just easily going online and ordering the wine you want, where employees are prohibited from giving you any recommendations... etc. Very recent amazing development: Sunday hours at some locations! Gee whiz!
Meanwhile, wineries are allowed to sell their own product - so there's an outlet in the King of Prussia mall that's run by some local winery, and you can buy booze from them, because it's the booze they make.
posted by Tomorrowful at 2:10 PM on December 1, 2008
In PA, beer distributors aren't allowed to sell six-packs. I'm unsure if bars are forbidden to sell cases, but I've never actually encountered a business that actually sells both six-packs and larger boxes. But in any case, they can only sell beer, not wine or hard liquor.
These, of course, are in a state monopoly, which prevents you from just easily going online and ordering the wine you want, where employees are prohibited from giving you any recommendations... etc. Very recent amazing development: Sunday hours at some locations! Gee whiz!
Meanwhile, wineries are allowed to sell their own product - so there's an outlet in the King of Prussia mall that's run by some local winery, and you can buy booze from them, because it's the booze they make.
posted by Tomorrowful at 2:10 PM on December 1, 2008
Addendum: Bars aren't allowed to sell more than two six packs to anyone. Of course.
posted by Tomorrowful at 2:19 PM on December 1, 2008
posted by Tomorrowful at 2:19 PM on December 1, 2008
vibrotronica writes "Never mind that Because the state is ridiculously poor, as long as you can wrap your issue in Jesus or race, you'll get your way."
ftfy ;)
posted by mullingitover at 2:27 PM on December 1, 2008
ftfy ;)
posted by mullingitover at 2:27 PM on December 1, 2008
Places that sell beer or wine in the grocery store... is there some definition of grocery store? Or could you just open up a little market to sell beer or wine? Maybe with very little market involved, so it ends up just being a specialty beer shop.
posted by smackfu at 2:32 PM on December 1, 2008
posted by smackfu at 2:32 PM on December 1, 2008
Thanks vibrotronica. I guess that really was just too much to hope for, huh.
Alcohol laws are so insane/inane in this country.
posted by DiscourseMarker at 2:32 PM on December 1, 2008
Alcohol laws are so insane/inane in this country.
posted by DiscourseMarker at 2:32 PM on December 1, 2008
BUY-U-SAV WINE
"ROBUSTO" RED
2008
7.3% ALCOHOL BY VOLUME
INGREDIENTS
HYDROGEN (TWO PARTS)
OXYGEN (ONE PART)
MECHANICALLY SEPARATED GRAPES
TURPENTINE
ARTIFICIAL CHERRY FLAVOUR
COLOUR
(MAY CONTAIN TRACES OF RAT, MEXICAN)
posted by turgid dahlia at 2:59 PM on December 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
"ROBUSTO" RED
2008
7.3% ALCOHOL BY VOLUME
INGREDIENTS
HYDROGEN (TWO PARTS)
OXYGEN (ONE PART)
MECHANICALLY SEPARATED GRAPES
TURPENTINE
ARTIFICIAL CHERRY FLAVOUR
COLOUR
(MAY CONTAIN TRACES OF RAT, MEXICAN)
posted by turgid dahlia at 2:59 PM on December 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
“Jesusland”
Well, yeah. What’s confusing is, you go further south and not only can you get alcohol, but gas and fireworks in the same store (Out in SC I saw a sign “Gas. Beer. Bombs”). Head all the way down to Texas and you can add firearms and ammo to your purchase.
And Mexico - hell you can buy a hooker and a donkey on top of all that.
...and then there’s Brazil where tits and hips are shaken on t.v. for kindergarten shows.
So I guess it’s this sort of semi-south thing that seems to combine the worst of the north and the south.
Far enough south for a trucker hat to not be ironic - but not south enough for a cowboy hat to not be affected.
Far enough north to be well intentioned repressive like Canada, but not north enough to be polite and egalitarian like Canada.
Enough north-y to be puritan rural like New England, but not enough south-y to be crazy rural like Texas.
Less like ‘yee-haw’ more like ‘Hee-Haw’ is what I’m saying here.
...I’ll stop now.
posted by Smedleyman at 3:32 PM on December 1, 2008 [2 favorites]
Well, yeah. What’s confusing is, you go further south and not only can you get alcohol, but gas and fireworks in the same store (Out in SC I saw a sign “Gas. Beer. Bombs”). Head all the way down to Texas and you can add firearms and ammo to your purchase.
And Mexico - hell you can buy a hooker and a donkey on top of all that.
...and then there’s Brazil where tits and hips are shaken on t.v. for kindergarten shows.
So I guess it’s this sort of semi-south thing that seems to combine the worst of the north and the south.
Far enough south for a trucker hat to not be ironic - but not south enough for a cowboy hat to not be affected.
Far enough north to be well intentioned repressive like Canada, but not north enough to be polite and egalitarian like Canada.
Enough north-y to be puritan rural like New England, but not enough south-y to be crazy rural like Texas.
Less like ‘yee-haw’ more like ‘Hee-Haw’ is what I’m saying here.
...I’ll stop now.
posted by Smedleyman at 3:32 PM on December 1, 2008 [2 favorites]
Heh. Here in California, the debate is over marijuana dispensaries. But I doubt the big grocery chains will start selling because of the Feds.
posted by ryanrs at 3:58 PM on December 1, 2008
posted by ryanrs at 3:58 PM on December 1, 2008
Maybe grocery stores could sell the wine as "Bottled Water by Jesus."
That reminds me of communion.
posted by Stewriffic at 5:15 PM on December 1, 2008
That reminds me of communion.
posted by Stewriffic at 5:15 PM on December 1, 2008
Here in NC Harris Teeter has a whole section of the store blocked off for wine. And as long as you wait till 12 or 1 (forget which) you can buy it on Sunday.
Jesus drank it, turned water INTO it, so I don't think He cares when someone buys it and consumes it. (in moderation, naturally.)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:59 PM on December 1, 2008
Jesus drank it, turned water INTO it, so I don't think He cares when someone buys it and consumes it. (in moderation, naturally.)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:59 PM on December 1, 2008
Far enough north to be well intentioned repressive like Canada, but not north enough to be polite and egalitarian like Canada.
This explains so much...
posted by kaspen at 6:05 PM on December 1, 2008
Ah, St. Alia of the Bunnies. That's what the Catholics want you to think! In fact, whenever the Bible says "wine", it means either grape juice or wine so highly diluted with water that it's not really what we would recognize as the stuff the sinful, sinful Catholics drink.
So, just to be clear: Everything in the Bible is literally true. Except when it says "wine". And Catholics are evil. Because they drink wine in church. They're not Good Christians like us.
posted by vibrotronica at 6:18 PM on December 1, 2008
So, just to be clear: Everything in the Bible is literally true. Except when it says "wine". And Catholics are evil. Because they drink wine in church. They're not Good Christians like us.
posted by vibrotronica at 6:18 PM on December 1, 2008
Correction: the Catholics drink the PURE BLOOD OF OUR LORD in church. Blasphemer.
posted by mynameisluka at 7:08 PM on December 1, 2008
posted by mynameisluka at 7:08 PM on December 1, 2008
Tomorrowful: "Addendum: Bars aren't allowed to sell more than two six packs to anyone. Of course."
That's not strictly true. They can't sell more than two six packs at one time to anyone in PA. You can buy four six packs but you have to buy two, take them out to the car, come back in and then buy two more.
posted by octothorpe at 7:29 PM on December 1, 2008
That's not strictly true. They can't sell more than two six packs at one time to anyone in PA. You can buy four six packs but you have to buy two, take them out to the car, come back in and then buy two more.
posted by octothorpe at 7:29 PM on December 1, 2008
“the Catholics drink the PURE BLOOD OF OUR LORD in church”
Whoa, wait, that’s supposed to literally be Christ’s blood?
...that guy must’ve been like really hammered all the time.
I think all this emphasis on strictures around alcohol really promotes alcohol abuse.
I mean that in the literal sense somewhat.
But also - I was at a wedding, one of my more churchy conservative pals got married. We were a bit sour we couldn’t drink, just a toast sort of thing. Well his new bride’s cousin or whatever drags us over and shows us he’s got a bottle of Kaluha or something stashed off to the side.
I mean, just, no.
Like the point is just to get buzzed and it doesn’t matter how.
I don’t drink much at all. But I do like good wine on rare occasion.
This whole ‘I’m more into Jesus than you’ game is like an amateur theater troupe playing nomic.
posted by Smedleyman at 7:16 AM on December 2, 2008
Whoa, wait, that’s supposed to literally be Christ’s blood?
...that guy must’ve been like really hammered all the time.
I think all this emphasis on strictures around alcohol really promotes alcohol abuse.
I mean that in the literal sense somewhat.
But also - I was at a wedding, one of my more churchy conservative pals got married. We were a bit sour we couldn’t drink, just a toast sort of thing. Well his new bride’s cousin or whatever drags us over and shows us he’s got a bottle of Kaluha or something stashed off to the side.
I mean, just, no.
Like the point is just to get buzzed and it doesn’t matter how.
I don’t drink much at all. But I do like good wine on rare occasion.
This whole ‘I’m more into Jesus than you’ game is like an amateur theater troupe playing nomic.
posted by Smedleyman at 7:16 AM on December 2, 2008
octothorpe:
My father runs a beer distributor in PA (you know, the big grocery-store-of-beer where you buy cases). If you want a case of beer, a six pack of beer, and a bottle of wine, in PA, that's three stops at three stores. I thought it was weird when I was growing up, but now that I live in DC/VA, I really, really appreciate the PA system. Here in DC, I buy my beer at the grocery store- and have my freedom loving selection of Bud, But Lite, Heineken, and Corona. Back in PA, my father's store stocks over 300 kinds of beer, from your utility beers to your designer beers to your my-god-they-still-make-that-stuff-where's-grandad-now beers.
(Of course, the grocery stores in PA are lobbying to overturn that system, which I think would be a real loss. Not all of the leftovers from Prohibition are awful...at least if you're a beer lover in PA)
posted by zap rowsdower at 8:16 AM on December 2, 2008
My father runs a beer distributor in PA (you know, the big grocery-store-of-beer where you buy cases). If you want a case of beer, a six pack of beer, and a bottle of wine, in PA, that's three stops at three stores. I thought it was weird when I was growing up, but now that I live in DC/VA, I really, really appreciate the PA system. Here in DC, I buy my beer at the grocery store- and have my freedom loving selection of Bud, But Lite, Heineken, and Corona. Back in PA, my father's store stocks over 300 kinds of beer, from your utility beers to your designer beers to your my-god-they-still-make-that-stuff-where's-grandad-now beers.
(Of course, the grocery stores in PA are lobbying to overturn that system, which I think would be a real loss. Not all of the leftovers from Prohibition are awful...at least if you're a beer lover in PA)
posted by zap rowsdower at 8:16 AM on December 2, 2008
Woke up this morning to a front page article in the Raleigh News & Observer about how mixed drinks are not allowed in restaurants in Chatham county:
Having grown up in California it is truly baffling to me that grown people have allowed the government to dictate to them how, when, and what kind of liquor they may be allowed to buy. Nothing makes me gnash my teeth like going to the ABC store to buy Kirsch for making classic fondue and being told that the ABC does not stock Kirsch. In NC ABC stores the hours are limited, the stock is very limited and the sales are nearly non-existent. But, hey, if you want to smoke other than age restrictions there are no controls on the sale of cigarettes. I guess Jesus smoked.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:29 AM on December 2, 2008
By special acts of the legislature, a few Chatham businesses -- the Fearrington House Inn, the Old Chatham Golf Club, the Golf Club at Chapel Ridge and others -- already serve mixed drinks.In other words, common folk without the wherewithal to spend more than a hundred bucks on dinner are not allowed to have a margarita or a martini with their meal.
But nowhere along the county's bucolic byways or its busy bypasses can be found an Applebee's, a Red Lobster or a Marriott with a bar.
Having grown up in California it is truly baffling to me that grown people have allowed the government to dictate to them how, when, and what kind of liquor they may be allowed to buy. Nothing makes me gnash my teeth like going to the ABC store to buy Kirsch for making classic fondue and being told that the ABC does not stock Kirsch. In NC ABC stores the hours are limited, the stock is very limited and the sales are nearly non-existent. But, hey, if you want to smoke other than age restrictions there are no controls on the sale of cigarettes. I guess Jesus smoked.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:29 AM on December 2, 2008
Here in DC, I buy my beer at the grocery store- and have my freedom loving selection of Bud, But Lite, Heineken, and Corona
Do you not also have beer distributors? Here in NY, we have beer in supermarkets and convenience stores, and the selection is mostly BMC and InBev's imports. But we still have beer stores that sell kegs and cases of BMC; many also carry a wide selection of local, domestic, and imported craft beer, too. Best of both worlds.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:38 AM on December 2, 2008
Do you not also have beer distributors? Here in NY, we have beer in supermarkets and convenience stores, and the selection is mostly BMC and InBev's imports. But we still have beer stores that sell kegs and cases of BMC; many also carry a wide selection of local, domestic, and imported craft beer, too. Best of both worlds.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:38 AM on December 2, 2008
At least in DC, there are some liquor/beer stores that have a slightly better selection, but you're pretty much limited to six-packs outside of the grocery stores, which, let's face it, isn't enough for my Irish-ancestored self. If I feel like driving to Virginia, there are a couple of big box wine stores that have a decent selection of beer, but those are few and far between compared to the grocery stores (by necessity, I'd imagine- I figure most people are happy with the generic brews and/or don't care enough to pay a premium at a specialty store).
I guess what I'm really mourning is that my large, family-owned beer store where I get free beer is so far away. Is finding the occasional case of Red Stripe really too much to ask?
posted by zap rowsdower at 10:10 AM on December 2, 2008
I guess what I'm really mourning is that my large, family-owned beer store where I get free beer is so far away. Is finding the occasional case of Red Stripe really too much to ask?
posted by zap rowsdower at 10:10 AM on December 2, 2008
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
What do the real facts actually say? How does access to alcohol in grocery stores affect people/business in other states? My state has it available, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone buy any. Although I probably wouldn't, since I do the shopping on Sunday morning. Still, when I *did* want a bottle of wine, I went to a liquor store rather than a grocery store.
posted by DU at 6:20 AM on December 1, 2008