Law enforcement and autism are a volatile mix, and not an uncommon one.
July 9, 2010 10:06 AM Subscribe
Is Sitting While Autistic a Crime? Newsweek explores what happens when police encounter autistic individuals. This law enforcement training video attempts to reduce those risks. (autoplays, 21 min - short YouTube preview here).
Good on Dennis Debbaudt for educating law enforcement about this. Every police department in the country should receive this training.
posted by lholladay at 10:23 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by lholladay at 10:23 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
The editing in the YT preview should be a crime. *grumble*
Now off to watch the full thing.
posted by pyrex at 10:25 AM on July 9, 2010
Now off to watch the full thing.
posted by pyrex at 10:25 AM on July 9, 2010
Another reason that the police default attack mode/auto-escalate is so wonderful. I especially love the "possibly in possession of a gun." Anyone is possibly in possession of a gun, even attendees at a nudist colony could have tucked away a single-shot Colt Lady Derringer away somewhere. It's like this bit out of How to Get Ahead in Advertising:
BUSINESSMAN 1: (reading the newspaper) "One discovered naked in the kitchen ... breasts smeared with peanut butter. The police took away a bag containing 15 grams of cannabis resin ... it may also contain a quantity of heroin."
BAGLEY: Or a pork pie.
BUSINESSMAN 1: I beg your pardon.
BAGLEY: I said the bag may also have contained a pork pie.
BUSINESSMAN 1: I hardly see a pork pie's got anything to do with it.
BAGLEY: Then how about a turnip? The bag may also have contained a large turnip.
PRIEST: The bag was full of drugs.
BAGLEY: Nonsense.
PRIEST: The bag was full of drugs, it says so.
BAGLEY: The bag could've been full of anything. Pork pies, turnips, oven parts ... it's the oldest trick in the book.
PRIEST: What book?
BAGLEY: The Distortion of Truth by Association book. The word is "may." You all believe heroin was in the bag because cannabis resin was in the bag. The bag may have contained heroin, but the chances are 100 to 1 certain that it didn't.
I've had an octopus squatting on my brain for a fortnight.
posted by adipocere at 10:32 AM on July 9, 2010 [31 favorites]
BUSINESSMAN 1: (reading the newspaper) "One discovered naked in the kitchen ... breasts smeared with peanut butter. The police took away a bag containing 15 grams of cannabis resin ... it may also contain a quantity of heroin."
BAGLEY: Or a pork pie.
BUSINESSMAN 1: I beg your pardon.
BAGLEY: I said the bag may also have contained a pork pie.
BUSINESSMAN 1: I hardly see a pork pie's got anything to do with it.
BAGLEY: Then how about a turnip? The bag may also have contained a large turnip.
PRIEST: The bag was full of drugs.
BAGLEY: Nonsense.
PRIEST: The bag was full of drugs, it says so.
BAGLEY: The bag could've been full of anything. Pork pies, turnips, oven parts ... it's the oldest trick in the book.
PRIEST: What book?
BAGLEY: The Distortion of Truth by Association book. The word is "may." You all believe heroin was in the bag because cannabis resin was in the bag. The bag may have contained heroin, but the chances are 100 to 1 certain that it didn't.
I've had an octopus squatting on my brain for a fortnight.
posted by adipocere at 10:32 AM on July 9, 2010 [31 favorites]
As the parent of an autistic child, how he will interact with police and authority figures in the future is indeed worrisome. I often have to "play the A card," as my wife and I call letting someone know about his condition, when we find ourselves in potentially awkward situations.
It's just something you have to do when, say, you're on board an airplane and child won't stop screaming until you push away from the gate (at which point he'll happily spend the entire flight glommed to the window looking at clouds).
One time, when I was (legitimately) pulled over for speeding, when the cop came over to the window, my wife made sure to explain to him that our son might make some strange noises.
But when he gets older, and goes out on his own ... I don't know. He's 7 right now and can hardly say his own name clearly.
Good to see police are at least thinking about these kinds of things.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:32 AM on July 9, 2010 [11 favorites]
It's just something you have to do when, say, you're on board an airplane and child won't stop screaming until you push away from the gate (at which point he'll happily spend the entire flight glommed to the window looking at clouds).
One time, when I was (legitimately) pulled over for speeding, when the cop came over to the window, my wife made sure to explain to him that our son might make some strange noises.
But when he gets older, and goes out on his own ... I don't know. He's 7 right now and can hardly say his own name clearly.
Good to see police are at least thinking about these kinds of things.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:32 AM on July 9, 2010 [11 favorites]
Cool Papa Bell, almost identical situation here with my 7 year old son here. It gets to the point that I get so tired of the looks and we having to explain him when we are in public that I sometimes I wish I could just put a shirt on him that says "Yes, I have autism, stop staring". I just arrived in NYC yesterday for the first time with him and we've already had a couple of 'incidents' such as him running away from us and trying to cross streets without us.
I'm very happy to hear that people are trying to educate law-enforcement because it really does worry me that my son sometimes does not respond to my instructions, so I could not imagine him having to deal with the police without me being around.
Thanks for sharing this.
posted by dealing away at 10:44 AM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
Hooray for autism-specific training, but it still sickens me that it's even necessary. Every time I read a story like this, it just makes my blood boil. It's like the commonly accepted first response from cops now is to taser and beat into submission first, and then find out what's going on later.
Fuck you, cops, for making me agree with Republicans when I see one of those bumper stickers that says "I want my country back."
posted by xedrik at 10:51 AM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
Fuck you, cops, for making me agree with Republicans when I see one of those bumper stickers that says "I want my country back."
posted by xedrik at 10:51 AM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
Maybe the autistic (and everyone else) could also be helped by, say, increasing the standards for police to use violence?
Oh, not going to happen you say? Well then I guess we better go with the suggestion of an autism registry so the cops can go right on ahead and keep murdering and assaulting all the other people who don't respond and behave in the narrow ways deemed sane by these street-hardened cognitive scientists in blue.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 10:52 AM on July 9, 2010 [9 favorites]
Oh, not going to happen you say? Well then I guess we better go with the suggestion of an autism registry so the cops can go right on ahead and keep murdering and assaulting all the other people who don't respond and behave in the narrow ways deemed sane by these street-hardened cognitive scientists in blue.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 10:52 AM on July 9, 2010 [9 favorites]
Every time I read a story like this, it just makes my blood boil.
Take a deep breath.
posted by smackfu at 11:03 AM on July 9, 2010
Take a deep breath.
posted by smackfu at 11:03 AM on July 9, 2010
My hometown just rolled out a program* to help with this kinda thing. My sister did the web development stuff for it.
It has two parts. First is a registry where family members can record what aliment their loved one has. The example the Sheriffs used was a person who liked to grab shiny objects, like the deputy's badge. If the deputies show up on a call and this guy reaches out to grab the badge off on their chests, they'll know ahead of time it's not just some guy trying to attack them.
Second is homing beacon worn by people who might wander off and not be able to take care of themselves. The Sheriffs can pull out a little directional radio receiver and find the missing person.
posted by sideshow at 11:14 AM on July 9, 2010
It has two parts. First is a registry where family members can record what aliment their loved one has. The example the Sheriffs used was a person who liked to grab shiny objects, like the deputy's badge. If the deputies show up on a call and this guy reaches out to grab the badge off on their chests, they'll know ahead of time it's not just some guy trying to attack them.
Second is homing beacon worn by people who might wander off and not be able to take care of themselves. The Sheriffs can pull out a little directional radio receiver and find the missing person.
posted by sideshow at 11:14 AM on July 9, 2010
I've had an octopus squatting on my brain for a fortnight.
Who does it fancy for Sunday?
posted by biffa at 11:16 AM on July 9, 2010 [11 favorites]
Who does it fancy for Sunday?
posted by biffa at 11:16 AM on July 9, 2010 [11 favorites]
I am with xedric on this. This just shouldn't be necessary. Being odd or obstreperous doesn't warrant immediate physical action by the police.
I believe some cops attempt to prevent a situation from "escalating" by taking preemptive action - or in other words, escalating it anyway, but being on the delivering end and not the receiving end. They will justify it, with some merit, saying they'd rather get a lawsuit than a bullet. That's understandable, but not much help when your or your family is the one getting a beatdown for it.
On the other hand, I am sure cops show loads of patience all the time with various oddly behaving people. That's not news, so we never hear about it.
This is good though that someone is trying to spread awareness. Not every physical tick or weird behavior is the result of drugs or psychosis. Cops should know that, as well as the rest of us.
posted by Xoebe at 11:19 AM on July 9, 2010
I believe some cops attempt to prevent a situation from "escalating" by taking preemptive action - or in other words, escalating it anyway, but being on the delivering end and not the receiving end. They will justify it, with some merit, saying they'd rather get a lawsuit than a bullet. That's understandable, but not much help when your or your family is the one getting a beatdown for it.
On the other hand, I am sure cops show loads of patience all the time with various oddly behaving people. That's not news, so we never hear about it.
This is good though that someone is trying to spread awareness. Not every physical tick or weird behavior is the result of drugs or psychosis. Cops should know that, as well as the rest of us.
posted by Xoebe at 11:19 AM on July 9, 2010
Guess I forgot to follow up on the *
Anyway, the deputy in the picture on that page is Sgt Arte Thompson. When the City of Santa Clarita (where my sister works) demoed the registry to him, he got so excited he brought in everyone he could find to show it off. He really likes things that allow the local cops to better serve the community.
posted by sideshow at 11:20 AM on July 9, 2010
Anyway, the deputy in the picture on that page is Sgt Arte Thompson. When the City of Santa Clarita (where my sister works) demoed the registry to him, he got so excited he brought in everyone he could find to show it off. He really likes things that allow the local cops to better serve the community.
posted by sideshow at 11:20 AM on July 9, 2010
Every police department in the country should receive this training.
There is a big push in big urban centers around the country to get police officers in districts that respond most frequently to mental health crisis calls trained on how to best handle those kinds of interactions and to their credit police departments have put a lot of work in on this and have gained a lot of ground. The issue is that if drugs materialize during a mental health crisis call the officers typically revert to conflict-oriented tactics and the empathy and compassion disappears. I know a social worker at Penn who is studying this for her doctoral thesis and explained to me that this was part of her research findings.
posted by The Straightener at 11:31 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
There is a big push in big urban centers around the country to get police officers in districts that respond most frequently to mental health crisis calls trained on how to best handle those kinds of interactions and to their credit police departments have put a lot of work in on this and have gained a lot of ground. The issue is that if drugs materialize during a mental health crisis call the officers typically revert to conflict-oriented tactics and the empathy and compassion disappears. I know a social worker at Penn who is studying this for her doctoral thesis and explained to me that this was part of her research findings.
posted by The Straightener at 11:31 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, I am sure cops show loads of patience all the time with various oddly behaving people. That's not news, so we never hear about it.
Yup, I've seen the police interact with drunks, KKK members, Westboro Baptist church members, and homeless people who were probably mentally ill. All came out unscathed.
posted by desjardins at 11:36 AM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
Yup, I've seen the police interact with drunks, KKK members, Westboro Baptist church members, and homeless people who were probably mentally ill. All came out unscathed.
posted by desjardins at 11:36 AM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
Educating the cops is the key so it's good they're getting this training. Otherwise they're not going to know how to respond in these tough and sometime unconventional situations.
posted by wei2k at 11:40 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by wei2k at 11:40 AM on July 9, 2010
Chicago Police Department Diversity Training videos, courtesy FedFlix
posted by jtron at 11:47 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by jtron at 11:47 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
It's not just cops. My 6 yr old has autism and we've resorted to having him wear a pin while out that reads, "I'm not misbehaving, I have autism." And even after seeing that, some people are still dicks.
Why? Because despite sensitivity training and pleas for patience, some people will always react to something different than themselves with fear and anger because they're dicks.
My son wears the pin, a tracker as part of Project Lifesaver, and a dog tag with the alert symbol and his name, condition and some phone numbers. Beyond that I have to have faith on the skills we teach him and the people he comes into contact with to be decent, just like every other parent.
posted by FunkyHelix at 12:09 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Why? Because despite sensitivity training and pleas for patience, some people will always react to something different than themselves with fear and anger because they're dicks.
My son wears the pin, a tracker as part of Project Lifesaver, and a dog tag with the alert symbol and his name, condition and some phone numbers. Beyond that I have to have faith on the skills we teach him and the people he comes into contact with to be decent, just like every other parent.
posted by FunkyHelix at 12:09 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Lots of people need this training. When I taught I had all kinds of kids with all kinds of issues, Emotional Handicaps, Learning Disabilities, ADD, ADHD and Autism. Each person is affected to different degrees and their idiosyncrasies manifest themselves in different ways.
It's funny, but once you're hip to it, you'll see it EVERYWHERE. I was getting my eyebrows waxed one time and the girl waxing me kept doing stuff and saying, "wait, there's one over here. Oh, lemme get that. Wait, one more." Finally, after having my entire face waxed, I said, "OCD?" She said, "Yes! How did you know?" I wonder.
That guy in the corner, rocking back and forth and muttering? My doctor, who won't look me in the eye and doesn't laugh at my jokes? The girl I work with who can't get out a complete sentence and doesn't ever finish anything.
And let's not dog the police. They do a dangerous job and the consequences of not erring on the side of caution is that they can get themselves killed. Sure, I'd like them to rely less upon their tasers and their guns, and with better training, hopefully we can move in that direction.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:16 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's funny, but once you're hip to it, you'll see it EVERYWHERE. I was getting my eyebrows waxed one time and the girl waxing me kept doing stuff and saying, "wait, there's one over here. Oh, lemme get that. Wait, one more." Finally, after having my entire face waxed, I said, "OCD?" She said, "Yes! How did you know?" I wonder.
That guy in the corner, rocking back and forth and muttering? My doctor, who won't look me in the eye and doesn't laugh at my jokes? The girl I work with who can't get out a complete sentence and doesn't ever finish anything.
And let's not dog the police. They do a dangerous job and the consequences of not erring on the side of caution is that they can get themselves killed. Sure, I'd like them to rely less upon their tasers and their guns, and with better training, hopefully we can move in that direction.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:16 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's funny, but once you're hip to it, you'll see it EVERYWHERE.
Don't do this. Diagnosing mental illness/disorders is not something that should be done by people without special training. (Of course, I'm assuming you are not a psychologist, because psychologists wouldn't diagnose someone with OCD based on an informal interaction.)
posted by Philosopher Dirtbike at 12:48 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Don't do this. Diagnosing mental illness/disorders is not something that should be done by people without special training. (Of course, I'm assuming you are not a psychologist, because psychologists wouldn't diagnose someone with OCD based on an informal interaction.)
posted by Philosopher Dirtbike at 12:48 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Perhaps I missed it, but the tips on how to interact with someone who is autistic, are those not basic tips and tricks that should be the standard rule of how police interact with everyone?
Approach people calmly and slowly.
Don't flash aggravating lights in their faces.
Don't be aggressive.
Don't assume they are committing a crime, unless you have probable cause.
Except, it seems that the stories we keep hearing are about the police acting aggressively, presuming everyone is committing a crime, and taking a hard-line "You have got to be kidding me" approach to people.
posted by Maztec at 1:18 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Approach people calmly and slowly.
Don't flash aggravating lights in their faces.
Don't be aggressive.
Don't assume they are committing a crime, unless you have probable cause.
Except, it seems that the stories we keep hearing are about the police acting aggressively, presuming everyone is committing a crime, and taking a hard-line "You have got to be kidding me" approach to people.
posted by Maztec at 1:18 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Don't do this. Diagnosing mental illness/disorders is not something that should be done by people without special training.
If I may intrude, I don't think the point was that people should try to make an ad-hoc diagnosis.
Rather, have some patience and reach out with love and openness, because "The girl I work with who can't get out a complete sentence and doesn't ever finish anything" might not be just a ditsy "blonde" flake that deserves a casual dismissal and a pink slip because she's not trying hard enough.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:36 PM on July 9, 2010 [8 favorites]
If I may intrude, I don't think the point was that people should try to make an ad-hoc diagnosis.
Rather, have some patience and reach out with love and openness, because "The girl I work with who can't get out a complete sentence and doesn't ever finish anything" might not be just a ditsy "blonde" flake that deserves a casual dismissal and a pink slip because she's not trying hard enough.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:36 PM on July 9, 2010 [8 favorites]
Yup, I've seen the police interact with drunks, KKK members, Westboro Baptist church members, and homeless people who were probably mentally ill. All came out unscathed.
On the other hand, I am sure cops show loads of patience all the time with various oddly behaving people. That's not news, so we never hear about it.
Drunks, KKK members, Westboro Baptist church members, homeless people who were probably mentally ill, various oddly behaving people, people with autism...do all these folks require specific training, so that the cop has to take a specific unique action? When does it end? I worry that the cops' heads will explode after a while.
posted by Melismata at 1:44 PM on July 9, 2010
On the other hand, I am sure cops show loads of patience all the time with various oddly behaving people. That's not news, so we never hear about it.
Drunks, KKK members, Westboro Baptist church members, homeless people who were probably mentally ill, various oddly behaving people, people with autism...do all these folks require specific training, so that the cop has to take a specific unique action? When does it end? I worry that the cops' heads will explode after a while.
posted by Melismata at 1:44 PM on July 9, 2010
Perhaps I missed it, but the tips on how to interact with someone who is autistic, are those not basic tips and tricks that should be the standard rule of how police interact with everyone?
Well ... no, not really. Sometimes a cop needs to be blunt.
My friend's car broke down at night in front of an ATM once. I was using, of all things, an aluminum bat to try to pry the fender away from the tire.
A cop rolled up and saw two guys swinging a bat in the dark in front of an ATM.
The cop's first words to me were: "PUT. THE. BAT. DOWN."
And I was like, "Oh yeah, this does look kind of strange, doesn't it?"
I complied, we talked, the cop offered to call AAA. Nice guy. I probably scared the heck out of him.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:45 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Well ... no, not really. Sometimes a cop needs to be blunt.
My friend's car broke down at night in front of an ATM once. I was using, of all things, an aluminum bat to try to pry the fender away from the tire.
A cop rolled up and saw two guys swinging a bat in the dark in front of an ATM.
The cop's first words to me were: "PUT. THE. BAT. DOWN."
And I was like, "Oh yeah, this does look kind of strange, doesn't it?"
I complied, we talked, the cop offered to call AAA. Nice guy. I probably scared the heck out of him.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:45 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Cool Papa Bell: he absolutely needed to ask you to put the bat down first and he absolutely needed to do this bluntly dr his safety? He couldn't just say "what's all this then?" from greater-than-bat-swing distance and then decide whether or not you were up to no good depending on your response?
Two guys are out in the middle of the night doing something with a bat, unless it's an obviously criminal activity why start at a presumption of criminality? It is my opinion that the de facto assumption of criminality is harmful to the psyches of all citizens, and moreover to the mental health and general wellbeing of the police officers themselves.
This de facto assumption of criminality and threat is what leads to hasty violence on the part of police, and fear of the police by non-criminal citizens.
If the standard is "feeling threatened" then they must always feel threatened in a world where everyone is a criminal until they comply with the officers orders. This is no good for anyone, regardless of mental status.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 1:57 PM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
Two guys are out in the middle of the night doing something with a bat, unless it's an obviously criminal activity why start at a presumption of criminality? It is my opinion that the de facto assumption of criminality is harmful to the psyches of all citizens, and moreover to the mental health and general wellbeing of the police officers themselves.
This de facto assumption of criminality and threat is what leads to hasty violence on the part of police, and fear of the police by non-criminal citizens.
If the standard is "feeling threatened" then they must always feel threatened in a world where everyone is a criminal until they comply with the officers orders. This is no good for anyone, regardless of mental status.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 1:57 PM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
If the standard is "feeling threatened" then they must always feel threatened in a world where everyone is a criminal until they comply with the officers orders.
This is how police operate, at least in my experience with my relatives who are police officers.
posted by fiercecupcake at 2:06 PM on July 9, 2010
This is how police operate, at least in my experience with my relatives who are police officers.
posted by fiercecupcake at 2:06 PM on July 9, 2010
If I may intrude, I don't think the point was that people should try to make an ad-hoc diagnosis.
If you work around the disability or mental health population, it's pretty much impossible not to do this kind of thing, at least as far as thinking to yourself something like, "So-and-so demonstrates a lot of behaviors associated with autism; if I had to guess, I'd say he's probably somewhere on the spectrum." Actually sharing this opinion, on the other hand, is pretty much a no-no.
posted by infinitywaltz at 2:06 PM on July 9, 2010
If you work around the disability or mental health population, it's pretty much impossible not to do this kind of thing, at least as far as thinking to yourself something like, "So-and-so demonstrates a lot of behaviors associated with autism; if I had to guess, I'd say he's probably somewhere on the spectrum." Actually sharing this opinion, on the other hand, is pretty much a no-no.
posted by infinitywaltz at 2:06 PM on July 9, 2010
It depends how you do it, surely. I spend a lot of time with kids, notably in a co-op preschool. While I wouldn't say to another parent "I think Jake has SPD!" I might say "I've noticed Jake gets really upset when we're singing in circle time, and I wonder if the noise is a bit overwhelming. Maybe we could have him sit over here where he won't be surrounded by maracas and see if that helps him keep it together."
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:22 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:22 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
Exactly, my deceased bibliophile friend. Exactly.
posted by infinitywaltz at 2:26 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by infinitywaltz at 2:26 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Cool Papa Bell: he absolutely needed to ask you to put the bat down first and he absolutely needed to do this bluntly dr his safety?
This is why I hate cop threads ... everyone (but me) apparently lives in perfect worlds where Bad Things don't ever happen.
I'll leave you with this: How could he know I was standing with my friends? Maybe he wasn't fearing for his safety, but the safety of the guy standing right next to the guy doing aggressive things with a bat in the middle of the night in front of an ATM.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:31 PM on July 9, 2010
This is why I hate cop threads ... everyone (but me) apparently lives in perfect worlds where Bad Things don't ever happen.
I'll leave you with this: How could he know I was standing with my friends? Maybe he wasn't fearing for his safety, but the safety of the guy standing right next to the guy doing aggressive things with a bat in the middle of the night in front of an ATM.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:31 PM on July 9, 2010
I don't live in a world where bad things never happen. That's a patently absurd statement in light of my remark. I am in favor of officers acting with due caution when something seems amiss but I am not in favor of a de facto assumption of criminality.
The guy right next to you wasn't running and probably wasn't acting threatened because why would he be? You weren't assaulting him, he was your associate.
I'm not going to debate all the points of your story, it seems to me you will cast your actions in a possibly criminal light because that's how you perceive the event. This perception, I argue, proceeds from the global presumption of criminality by the police in any even vaguely aberrant situation.
I think this harms citizens because it makes them reflect back and think "how can my innocent activities be perceived as criminal and possibly net me negative attention from the police" and it harms the police because it puts them unduly on-edge making them curt and aggressive toward non-criminal citizens.
Why does the cop need to assume you're criminal before he witnesses or hears report of criminal activity?
I'm equally concerned with the safety of all citizens, police are citizens too, and all of us (the less articulate and more impulse prone amongst us in particular -- police and civilians alike) suffer from the de facto assumption of criminality and it's concomitant violence.
Accepting this tacit assumption and allowing it to persist gets the wrong people in bad trouble or even gets them shot, which is what this post is about preventing.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 2:57 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
The guy right next to you wasn't running and probably wasn't acting threatened because why would he be? You weren't assaulting him, he was your associate.
I'm not going to debate all the points of your story, it seems to me you will cast your actions in a possibly criminal light because that's how you perceive the event. This perception, I argue, proceeds from the global presumption of criminality by the police in any even vaguely aberrant situation.
I think this harms citizens because it makes them reflect back and think "how can my innocent activities be perceived as criminal and possibly net me negative attention from the police" and it harms the police because it puts them unduly on-edge making them curt and aggressive toward non-criminal citizens.
Why does the cop need to assume you're criminal before he witnesses or hears report of criminal activity?
I'm equally concerned with the safety of all citizens, police are citizens too, and all of us (the less articulate and more impulse prone amongst us in particular -- police and civilians alike) suffer from the de facto assumption of criminality and it's concomitant violence.
Accepting this tacit assumption and allowing it to persist gets the wrong people in bad trouble or even gets them shot, which is what this post is about preventing.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 2:57 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
I was working in a group home in the early 80's, when one of the residents, a non-verbal fellow diagnosed with autism, was in some distress and bolted out of the house (he really, really, wanted a popsicle). It was half a minute or so before this was noticed, and I ran after him. I could see him running down the center of a four lane thoroughfare, busy with traffic.
An unmarked cop car stopped, and a plainclothes cop got out, and wrestled my (tall and strong) client to the ground. I caught up to them and approached. The cop asked "is he mental?".
I resisted the urge to say "no - he's physical, that's why you have to wrestle with him", and instead confirmed that he lived in a group home and was having a bad day. The cop let him up, and my client and I went back to the house (we may have grabbed a popsicle on the way).
I was really glad the cop was there, and acted as he did, which I admit, is not my typical reaction to cops doing their thing.
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 3:02 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
An unmarked cop car stopped, and a plainclothes cop got out, and wrestled my (tall and strong) client to the ground. I caught up to them and approached. The cop asked "is he mental?".
I resisted the urge to say "no - he's physical, that's why you have to wrestle with him", and instead confirmed that he lived in a group home and was having a bad day. The cop let him up, and my client and I went back to the house (we may have grabbed a popsicle on the way).
I was really glad the cop was there, and acted as he did, which I admit, is not my typical reaction to cops doing their thing.
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 3:02 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Hooray for autism-specific training, but it still sickens me that it's even necessary. Every time I read a story like this, it just makes my blood boil. It's like the commonly accepted first response from cops now is to taser and beat into submission first, and then find out what's going on later.
You did see this about Clarence Thomas' nephew getting Tasered?
posted by etaoin at 3:16 PM on July 9, 2010
You did see this about Clarence Thomas' nephew getting Tasered?
posted by etaoin at 3:16 PM on July 9, 2010
Wow, talk about tasing the wrong dude.
posted by desjardins at 3:23 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by desjardins at 3:23 PM on July 9, 2010
I seriously cannot wait for the lawsuit, and I will not mock the Thomas family for whatever they do. This is so wrong on so many levels.
posted by etaoin at 3:37 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by etaoin at 3:37 PM on July 9, 2010
I wonder what the psychological effects of being tasered are for those with little grasp of the technology or application. If you don't know what a taser is, or how it works, or why people use them, then it has got to be about as close to being struck down by the hand of god as you can get. I have to imagine that being tasered is a horrible and traumatic experience no matter the context, but for someone with developmental disabilities, what kind of lasting impression would it make?
posted by iloveit at 4:51 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by iloveit at 4:51 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
I have to imagine that being tasered is a horrible and traumatic experience no matter the context, but for someone with developmental disabilities, what kind of lasting impression would it make?
Not just developmental disabilities.
Even now my schizophrenic son jumps every time he sees a police car or a policemen. He was drunk, was arrested and handcuffed. After being placed in the back seat of the police car, he started repeating "To serve and protect, to serve and protect..." He was jerked from the car, throw on the pavement while still handcuffed, and tasered. After that, he was dumped at the nearest ER.
My son jumps and is afraid when he sees a policemen. Me? I feel hatred and rage: I mutter to myself "Fascist pigs" until they are out of sight. (I know, totally ineffectual and immature, so what?)
posted by francesca too at 8:22 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Not just developmental disabilities.
Even now my schizophrenic son jumps every time he sees a police car or a policemen. He was drunk, was arrested and handcuffed. After being placed in the back seat of the police car, he started repeating "To serve and protect, to serve and protect..." He was jerked from the car, throw on the pavement while still handcuffed, and tasered. After that, he was dumped at the nearest ER.
My son jumps and is afraid when he sees a policemen. Me? I feel hatred and rage: I mutter to myself "Fascist pigs" until they are out of sight. (I know, totally ineffectual and immature, so what?)
posted by francesca too at 8:22 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
This is why I hate cop threads ... everyone (but me) apparently lives in perfect worlds where Bad Things don't ever happen.This is false.
You did see this about Clarence Thomas' nephew getting Tasered?Wow, interesting. Ironic since Thomas generally agrees with the 'authorities' on everything. In fact one of the TPM commenters linked to this opinion by Thomas holding that being "being hogtied and kicked by prison guards" didn't qualify as "cruel and unusual punishment"
Surely prison was not a more congenial place in the early years of the Republic than it is today; nor were our judges and commentators so naive as to be unaware of the often harsh conditions of prison life. Rather, they simply did not conceive of the Eighth Amendment as protecting inmates from harsh treatment. Thus, historically, the lower courts routinely rejected prisoner grievances by explaining that the courts had no role in regulating prison lifeIn this case, the tasering was done by security guards, not police officers.
posted by delmoi at 8:39 PM on July 9, 2010
Not exactly related to autism, but about a decade ago I was working at a halfway house for people with chronic mental illness. To make a very long story short, I had a client who had gone off his meds and ended up physically assaulting his father, putting him in intensive care for a week. On my advice, the guy's mother called the police to do a welfare check on her ex-husband. Turns out the police were already surrounding the house and were ready to use deadly force to end what they thought was a garden variety domestic violence/hostage situation. If they had not learned that the guy was a paranoid schizophrenic who had gone off his meds, the police would have been killed my client. ((shudders))
posted by echolalia67 at 5:17 AM on July 10, 2010
posted by echolalia67 at 5:17 AM on July 10, 2010
Complex partial seizures can get you in trouble with the police, too.
posted by sunnichka at 7:52 AM on July 10, 2010
posted by sunnichka at 7:52 AM on July 10, 2010
Perhaps if everybody with autism were to wear some kind of marker on their arm
posted by tehloki at 5:39 PM on July 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by tehloki at 5:39 PM on July 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
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posted by fiercecupcake at 10:20 AM on July 9, 2010