XO Movie Night
January 3, 2011 11:14 AM Subscribe
In 2006-2007, while Capt. Owen Honors was second-in-command of the USS Enterprise, the ship-wide closed circuit television was often used to broadcast videos to entertain the crew of around 6000. Not all of those videos were big budget movies. In fact, some of them were made by Honors himself, and depict simulated masturbation, female crewmembers showering together, and feature large amounts of sexual innuendo and homosexual slurs. (edited video included in link, maybe NSFW)
The Navy has been quick to condemn the videos and is launching an investigation.
The Navy has been quick to condemn the videos and is launching an investigation.
(My brain is so rotted by pop cultural ephemera that it didn't even register that it might be a real-world problem.)
How do people like this rise to levels of power? I mean, this is all blatantly not OK, and my understanding of folks like this is that this isn't a switch flipped randomly, but that this sort of behavior must have been ongoing for years.
posted by maxwelton at 11:22 AM on January 3, 2011 [6 favorites]
How do people like this rise to levels of power? I mean, this is all blatantly not OK, and my understanding of folks like this is that this isn't a switch flipped randomly, but that this sort of behavior must have been ongoing for years.
posted by maxwelton at 11:22 AM on January 3, 2011 [6 favorites]
"I'll say that sometimes, when you've been out to sea for a while, cut off from everything, you start to think things that you would never normally do are actually a good idea."
posted by box at 11:24 AM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 11:24 AM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
>> I mean, this is all blatantly not OK, and my understanding of folks like this is that this isn't a switch flipped randomly, but that this
All joking aside, I was thinking the same thing when I heard this yesterday. Then again, I have never been in the armed forces, so I am unclear about the culture issues on a ship (or any military unit)
I agree that this must not be the first time this has happened. I am just surprised that the commander of a machine like the Enterprise could stoop so low as to make a stupid video like this.
posted by lampshade at 11:26 AM on January 3, 2011
All joking aside, I was thinking the same thing when I heard this yesterday. Then again, I have never been in the armed forces, so I am unclear about the culture issues on a ship (or any military unit)
I agree that this must not be the first time this has happened. I am just surprised that the commander of a machine like the Enterprise could stoop so low as to make a stupid video like this.
posted by lampshade at 11:26 AM on January 3, 2011
This sounds more like a crass, fan-fic film set in an alternate universe on one of the other USS Enterprises. And what the heck, the Navy even named a building USS Enterprise? Sure, it's the first time the USS initialism was used in naming the building, but now everyone will be naming buildings as if they were ships.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:29 AM on January 3, 2011
posted by filthy light thief at 11:29 AM on January 3, 2011
When I picture hell, I can only imagine being trapped on a boat with this man.
posted by bicyclefish at 11:29 AM on January 3, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by bicyclefish at 11:29 AM on January 3, 2011 [3 favorites]
I support the troops.. DON'T YOU GUYS SUPPORT THE TROOPS?! hehe
posted by ReeMonster at 11:31 AM on January 3, 2011
posted by ReeMonster at 11:31 AM on January 3, 2011
maxwelton: "How do people like this rise to levels of power? I mean, this is all blatantly not OK, and my understanding of folks like this is that this isn't a switch flipped randomly, but that this sort of behavior must have been ongoing for years."
My understanding is that Capt.Honors is one of a handful of people with the qualifications to command the Enterprise due to the nature of its nuclear reactor. That's not en excuse, but it may help point in the right direction when the question of, "Why was this allowed to slip by?" comes up.
posted by charred husk at 11:33 AM on January 3, 2011
My understanding is that Capt.Honors is one of a handful of people with the qualifications to command the Enterprise due to the nature of its nuclear reactor. That's not en excuse, but it may help point in the right direction when the question of, "Why was this allowed to slip by?" comes up.
posted by charred husk at 11:33 AM on January 3, 2011
I am just surprised that the commander of a machine like the Enterprise could stoop so low as to make a stupid video like this.
I got as far as "some of them were made by Honors himself" and wondered how the commander of a machine like the Enterprise had the time to make stupid videos.
posted by DU at 11:36 AM on January 3, 2011
I got as far as "some of them were made by Honors himself" and wondered how the commander of a machine like the Enterprise had the time to make stupid videos.
posted by DU at 11:36 AM on January 3, 2011
From the linked article:
He added that electronic communication with the rest of the world while at sea can be difficult; it was nearly impossible to e-mail or upload videos from the carrier in 2006 and 2007.
"He probably figured they'd never get off the ship."
Guy deserves to lose his command for simply being stupid.
Of course, now RDML Rice, Honor's CO when he was XO, has quite a few questions to answer as well, as do Admirals Raymond Spicer and Daniel Holloway, who were also aboard the Enterprise when Honor was XO, as the officers commanding the Carrier Strike Group (which is the Carrier itself, the Air Group aboard, and the escort ships.)
posted by eriko at 11:36 AM on January 3, 2011 [5 favorites]
He added that electronic communication with the rest of the world while at sea can be difficult; it was nearly impossible to e-mail or upload videos from the carrier in 2006 and 2007.
"He probably figured they'd never get off the ship."
Guy deserves to lose his command for simply being stupid.
Of course, now RDML Rice, Honor's CO when he was XO, has quite a few questions to answer as well, as do Admirals Raymond Spicer and Daniel Holloway, who were also aboard the Enterprise when Honor was XO, as the officers commanding the Carrier Strike Group (which is the Carrier itself, the Air Group aboard, and the escort ships.)
posted by eriko at 11:36 AM on January 3, 2011 [5 favorites]
While of course this stuff goes on on board -- they are sailors after all -- the higher ups celebrating it and endorsing it is a completely different matter.
And if the first thing out of your mouth is complaining about harassment complaints, and how people are certain to be offended... Yeah. No excuse.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:37 AM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
And if the first thing out of your mouth is complaining about harassment complaints, and how people are certain to be offended... Yeah. No excuse.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:37 AM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
There are a handful of things that are pretty squcky about this, I would think that a commander actively disparaging crew members (the SWOs) would be a big no no in higher military circles, and can easily imagine it got his food spat in plenty of times prior to serving.
The general homophobia is nothing new to the US military and hopefully will start to recede. really though he seemed to be pretty interested in video production, perhaps a frustrated film school wannabe that got shunted into the navy?
posted by edgeways at 11:37 AM on January 3, 2011
The general homophobia is nothing new to the US military and hopefully will start to recede. really though he seemed to be pretty interested in video production, perhaps a frustrated film school wannabe that got shunted into the navy?
posted by edgeways at 11:37 AM on January 3, 2011
my understanding of folks like this is that this isn't a switch flipped randomly, but that this sort of behavior must have been ongoing for years.
This is exactly what some feminists are talking about when they talk about institutionalized patriarchy.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:38 AM on January 3, 2011 [11 favorites]
This is exactly what some feminists are talking about when they talk about institutionalized patriarchy.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:38 AM on January 3, 2011 [11 favorites]
How do people like this rise to levels of power?
Fratboy mentality can get you a long way in the US establishment. Military, politics, corporations, law -- all seem infested by men who live in a narrow society that prizes juvenile highjinks. Keep that commander after class to write an essay on "Why leaders should set a good example."
posted by binturong at 11:40 AM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
Fratboy mentality can get you a long way in the US establishment. Military, politics, corporations, law -- all seem infested by men who live in a narrow society that prizes juvenile highjinks. Keep that commander after class to write an essay on "Why leaders should set a good example."
posted by binturong at 11:40 AM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
....Sorry, I was a little bit too glib.
What I meant with my last crack was: yeah, there have been advances on a lot of fronts in terms of gender/race/social/economic class equality, but there are definitely some places where change still needs to happen. And in the places where it hasn't happened yet, that's how guys who make boobie movies get to be in charge.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:41 AM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
What I meant with my last crack was: yeah, there have been advances on a lot of fronts in terms of gender/race/social/economic class equality, but there are definitely some places where change still needs to happen. And in the places where it hasn't happened yet, that's how guys who make boobie movies get to be in charge.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:41 AM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
Sort of reminds me of the old sea chanty:
Ship ahoy
Sailor boy
Don't forget
Your dingy
The old salts need more salpeter (saltpetre)
Saltpeter prevents a man from having an erection.
posted by Postroad at 11:42 AM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
Ship ahoy
Sailor boy
Don't forget
Your dingy
The old salts need more salpeter (saltpetre)
Saltpeter prevents a man from having an erection.
posted by Postroad at 11:42 AM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
"We noticed when professional comedians were on board..."
... that you have no flair for comedy and are better off keeping your mouth shut?
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:26 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
... that you have no flair for comedy and are better off keeping your mouth shut?
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:26 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
One star Air Force general who was boss of the installation where I work was 'returned to the AF' (i.e. exiled to DC) for sexual harassment a week before Christmas. He asked a female member of the armed forces if she bought her own underwear or if she wore the stuff that we buy and issue. When he was taken to task for his lousy behavior he told the IG that he was 'conducting research.' Source.
posted by fixedgear at 12:30 PM on January 3, 2011
posted by fixedgear at 12:30 PM on January 3, 2011
How do people like this rise to levels of power?
Because nobody complains about it. Whether that's because they agree with the behaviour or because they're too afraid of being punished if they complain is another matter.
posted by fullerine at 12:32 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
Because nobody complains about it. Whether that's because they agree with the behaviour or because they're too afraid of being punished if they complain is another matter.
posted by fullerine at 12:32 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
There was an old British maritime law that condemned sodomy unless the ship had been out to sea for more than say a month or so.
I read somewhere too that when the USS Lincoln deployed for the Iraq War (it ended up being out for 11 months which is twice its normal deployment time) that 50 female sailors had to be returned home because they were pregnant and they weren't that way when the ship left port.
posted by EtherealCaptive at 12:32 PM on January 3, 2011
I read somewhere too that when the USS Lincoln deployed for the Iraq War (it ended up being out for 11 months which is twice its normal deployment time) that 50 female sailors had to be returned home because they were pregnant and they weren't that way when the ship left port.
posted by EtherealCaptive at 12:32 PM on January 3, 2011
I can't imagine being a woman on his ship. I *really* can't imagine a being a woman on his ship and agreeing to shower on camera. I *really really* can't imagine there being two of them.
posted by maryr at 12:33 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by maryr at 12:33 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
"I'll say that sometimes, when you've been out to sea for a while, cut off from everything, you start to think things that you would never normally do are actually a good idea."
Friggin' in the rigging
Friggin' in the rigging
Friggin' in the rigging
There was fuck all else to do
posted by loquacious at 12:35 PM on January 3, 2011 [3 favorites]
Friggin' in the rigging
Friggin' in the rigging
Friggin' in the rigging
There was fuck all else to do
posted by loquacious at 12:35 PM on January 3, 2011 [3 favorites]
Eh, not the best thing in the world or smartest thing he could have done, but I'd need more details and a look at his full record before deciding what to do with him.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:40 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:40 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
I kept waiting for the offensive part. Some random slurs, some dick jokes, some profanity. Seriously, is that it? BFD.
posted by norm at 12:40 PM on January 3, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by norm at 12:40 PM on January 3, 2011 [3 favorites]
Yes, but GOD FORBID the GAYS should be allowed to serve in the MILITARY!
*eyeroll*
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:42 PM on January 3, 2011
*eyeroll*
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:42 PM on January 3, 2011
The general homophobia is nothing new to the US military and hopefully will start to recede.
A lot of the "homophobia" in the military isn't really homophobia at all, but rather an acknowledgment of gay sex in the military - or perhaps more accurately, an acknowledgment that horny young guys will do almost anything. I'm not trying to say all of it is - not by a long shot - but the things that could be called out as homophobic in this video are pretty tame: a couple of "fag" references, the XO under his own desk (presumably, giving himself a blowjob through the magic of video editing), the two guys in the shower, the XO with some guy behind him in bed.
The real offenses - to me, anyway, as a gay ex-soldier - were the way the women were used for the videos, the fact that the videos really weren't all that funny, and most of all, this guy was SECOND-IN-COMMAND OF THE SHIP. The XO isn't supposed to be a comedian, he's supposed to make sure the trains run on time. He takes care of personnel issues, he's not supposed to create them.
I think the military has a lot more obstacles to overcome in their treatment of women - more than they do with gay men.
posted by me & my monkey at 12:52 PM on January 3, 2011 [20 favorites]
A lot of the "homophobia" in the military isn't really homophobia at all, but rather an acknowledgment of gay sex in the military - or perhaps more accurately, an acknowledgment that horny young guys will do almost anything. I'm not trying to say all of it is - not by a long shot - but the things that could be called out as homophobic in this video are pretty tame: a couple of "fag" references, the XO under his own desk (presumably, giving himself a blowjob through the magic of video editing), the two guys in the shower, the XO with some guy behind him in bed.
The real offenses - to me, anyway, as a gay ex-soldier - were the way the women were used for the videos, the fact that the videos really weren't all that funny, and most of all, this guy was SECOND-IN-COMMAND OF THE SHIP. The XO isn't supposed to be a comedian, he's supposed to make sure the trains run on time. He takes care of personnel issues, he's not supposed to create them.
I think the military has a lot more obstacles to overcome in their treatment of women - more than they do with gay men.
posted by me & my monkey at 12:52 PM on January 3, 2011 [20 favorites]
I would think that a commander actively disparaging crew members (the SWOs) would be a big no no in higher military circles
The XO used to be a fighter jock, and if there is one thing I know about the Navy, it's that the surface guys hate the air guys, and the air guys hate them right back. I've never met a SWO who had anything good to say about a naval air guy, and vice versa. They both think the other is incompetent and 'they' should be 'driving' the Navy, so to speak.
Anyway, apropos of nothing, here's a link to my favorite Navy video skit. Warning - contains frequent profanity, use of alcohol and references to mermaid sex.
posted by SweetJesus at 12:55 PM on January 3, 2011
The XO used to be a fighter jock, and if there is one thing I know about the Navy, it's that the surface guys hate the air guys, and the air guys hate them right back. I've never met a SWO who had anything good to say about a naval air guy, and vice versa. They both think the other is incompetent and 'they' should be 'driving' the Navy, so to speak.
Anyway, apropos of nothing, here's a link to my favorite Navy video skit. Warning - contains frequent profanity, use of alcohol and references to mermaid sex.
posted by SweetJesus at 12:55 PM on January 3, 2011
I kept waiting for the offensive part. Some random slurs, some dick jokes, some profanity. Seriously, is that it? BFD.
—Norm
Eponydepressing.
posted by Scientist at 12:55 PM on January 3, 2011 [5 favorites]
—Norm
Eponydepressing.
posted by Scientist at 12:55 PM on January 3, 2011 [5 favorites]
Here. Here's what happens when the military lets someone that thinks he's funny near a recording device. The fun starts at 5:13.
"Sir, you're not funny. Ask around."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:56 PM on January 3, 2011
"Sir, you're not funny. Ask around."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:56 PM on January 3, 2011
Talk about yer dishonorable discharge...
posted by LordSludge at 12:56 PM on January 3, 2011
posted by LordSludge at 12:56 PM on January 3, 2011
I can't imagine being a woman on his ship. I *really* can't imagine a being a woman on his ship and agreeing to shower on camera. I *really really* can't imagine there being two of them.
Some women deal with a boyzone by out-boyzoning the boys. Call it assimilation, call it false consciousness, but in sexist atmospheres it's not unusual to find some women being the worst offenders.
It's like the flipside of men who discover a little feminism and start lecturing women about it.
posted by fatbird at 12:57 PM on January 3, 2011 [9 favorites]
Some women deal with a boyzone by out-boyzoning the boys. Call it assimilation, call it false consciousness, but in sexist atmospheres it's not unusual to find some women being the worst offenders.
It's like the flipside of men who discover a little feminism and start lecturing women about it.
posted by fatbird at 12:57 PM on January 3, 2011 [9 favorites]
This makes a nice bookend to PBS' Carrier miniseries. (Previously)
posted by humanfont at 1:06 PM on January 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 1:06 PM on January 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
norm: "I kept waiting for the offensive part. "
Did you miss the moving lens flare in the opening title?
posted by brundlefly at 1:19 PM on January 3, 2011 [7 favorites]
Did you miss the moving lens flare in the opening title?
posted by brundlefly at 1:19 PM on January 3, 2011 [7 favorites]
"I kept waiting for the offensive part. "
I kept waiting for the funny part.
Had to stop watching when "We Built This City" kicked in, though. Now that's offensive.
posted by Zippity Goombah at 1:37 PM on January 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
I kept waiting for the funny part.
Had to stop watching when "We Built This City" kicked in, though. Now that's offensive.
posted by Zippity Goombah at 1:37 PM on January 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
The XO on the Stennis is way cooler.
posted by hellphish at 1:38 PM on January 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by hellphish at 1:38 PM on January 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
NPR covered this story today. As of this comment, audio is still pending, but will be up later today.
posted by hippybear at 1:50 PM on January 3, 2011
posted by hippybear at 1:50 PM on January 3, 2011
had the time to make stupid videos.
So its not powerpoint slides made into a movie?
posted by rough ashlar at 2:04 PM on January 3, 2011
So its not powerpoint slides made into a movie?
posted by rough ashlar at 2:04 PM on January 3, 2011
damn, whatever happened to "DON'T TELL"?
posted by tustinrick at 2:05 PM on January 3, 2011
posted by tustinrick at 2:05 PM on January 3, 2011
Some women deal with a boyzone by out-boyzoning the boys. Call it assimilation, call it false consciousness, but in sexist atmospheres it's not unusual to find some women being the worst offenders.
Yep: black police showing out for the white cop, to apply some words of wisdom about a similar phenomenon to this one.
posted by lord_wolf at 2:12 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yep: black police showing out for the white cop, to apply some words of wisdom about a similar phenomenon to this one.
posted by lord_wolf at 2:12 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
A lot of the "homophobia" in the military isn't really homophobia at all, but rather an acknowledgment of gay sex in the military - or perhaps more accurately, an acknowledgment that horny young guys will do almost anything
I will say this--a lot of the handwringing about "gays in the showers" isn't concern for what gays will do with heterosexuals in the showers. Its a concern for what heterosexual men will do with heterosexual men in the showers. Some things people don't want to admit about themselves, not about others.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:13 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
I will say this--a lot of the handwringing about "gays in the showers" isn't concern for what gays will do with heterosexuals in the showers. Its a concern for what heterosexual men will do with heterosexual men in the showers. Some things people don't want to admit about themselves, not about others.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:13 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
This is nothing, there's a program called 'Southpark' which has been broadcast on national television repeatedly over a period of years!
posted by Damienmce at 2:36 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Damienmce at 2:36 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
I can't imagine being a woman on his ship. I *really* can't imagine a being a woman on his ship and agreeing to shower on camera. I *really really* can't imagine there being two of them.
The article doesn't provide enough data to call it consent.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 3:35 PM on January 3, 2011
The article doesn't provide enough data to call it consent.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 3:35 PM on January 3, 2011
OK, look I do not support one single thing our military has been sent to do since, probably, WWII. That said, I'm a brat, so I kind of understand the humor (not really, but kinda). At least everyone participating consented, and probably most of them enjoyed the final product. And WE put them there, so let's not forget that part.
And regarding the women: women in uniform are as tough as the boys and play just as hard, so if your view of women in uniform was of delicate flowers instead the killing machines they are, well just hope you don't end up on the wrong side of them. Penis or no penis, they will kill your ass just as dead.
posted by digitalprimate at 3:59 PM on January 3, 2011
And regarding the women: women in uniform are as tough as the boys and play just as hard, so if your view of women in uniform was of delicate flowers instead the killing machines they are, well just hope you don't end up on the wrong side of them. Penis or no penis, they will kill your ass just as dead.
posted by digitalprimate at 3:59 PM on January 3, 2011
Um, who's surprised? Who didn't already know?
All the "Support OUr Troops No Matter What" people who plugged their fingers in their ears and went "LALALALALALALA" when we had things like Tailhook, or the Air Force Academy scandal, or Aberdeen,, or the Navy Dog Handlers, or....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:05 PM on January 3, 2011
All the "Support OUr Troops No Matter What" people who plugged their fingers in their ears and went "LALALALALALALA" when we had things like Tailhook, or the Air Force Academy scandal, or Aberdeen,, or the Navy Dog Handlers, or....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:05 PM on January 3, 2011
women in uniform are as tough as the boys and play just as hard, so if your view of women in uniform was of delicate flowers instead the killing machines they are, well just hope you don't end up on the wrong side of them. Penis or no penis, they will kill your ass just as dead.
Well, if your view of women in uniform is that "they should expect a little gropey horesplay because it's the military, amirite?" then can you tell that to the MEN in uniform who were acting like delicate flowers over the prospect of "oh mercy what if a gay man sees me in the shower"? Because it sounds like you think this kind of thing is just par for the course, but the military seems to think the men deserve special protection against it, at least.
If the men deserve special protection from this, then so do women. That's all anyone's saying.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:10 PM on January 3, 2011 [8 favorites]
Well, if your view of women in uniform is that "they should expect a little gropey horesplay because it's the military, amirite?" then can you tell that to the MEN in uniform who were acting like delicate flowers over the prospect of "oh mercy what if a gay man sees me in the shower"? Because it sounds like you think this kind of thing is just par for the course, but the military seems to think the men deserve special protection against it, at least.
If the men deserve special protection from this, then so do women. That's all anyone's saying.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:10 PM on January 3, 2011 [8 favorites]
Navy to relieve officer during inquiry over lewd videos
posted by hippybear at 4:31 PM on January 3, 2011
posted by hippybear at 4:31 PM on January 3, 2011
At least everyone participating consented
Yes, all ~6000 crewmembers on board the ship where the videos were shown over the shipwide CCTV network consented in the content and production of these videos.
We know that because Honors says that he hasn't received any complaints about them at all.
Oh, wait...
posted by hippybear at 4:33 PM on January 3, 2011
Yes, all ~6000 crewmembers on board the ship where the videos were shown over the shipwide CCTV network consented in the content and production of these videos.
We know that because Honors says that he hasn't received any complaints about them at all.
Oh, wait...
posted by hippybear at 4:33 PM on January 3, 2011
SweetJesus, that's freakin' hilarious.
Learned a new word today: SWOveralls.
posted by shoesfullofdust at 4:53 PM on January 3, 2011
Learned a new word today: SWOveralls.
posted by shoesfullofdust at 4:53 PM on January 3, 2011
And the other thing I was thinking was, "Is that Glenn Close in the raunchy Navy video?"
posted by shoesfullofdust at 5:04 PM on January 3, 2011
posted by shoesfullofdust at 5:04 PM on January 3, 2011
He'll never get his own command now. Not because of the content of the video, mind you, but because he was too stupid to get caught.
Too stupid to get caught---and he got caught anyway! XO Honors must be crazy like a fox.
posted by layceepee at 5:38 PM on January 3, 2011
Too stupid to get caught---and he got caught anyway! XO Honors must be crazy like a fox.
posted by layceepee at 5:38 PM on January 3, 2011
Wait, this USS Enterprise?
I suppose you could make a sort of "slippery slope" argument, though it's really harder to see how anything could actually be gayer than this.
posted by sonika at 5:46 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
I suppose you could make a sort of "slippery slope" argument, though it's really harder to see how anything could actually be gayer than this.
posted by sonika at 5:46 PM on January 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
Navy to relieve officer during inquiry over lewd videos
Support Captain Owen Honors - USS Enterprise Facebook page
Discussion at the Virginia Pilot's (which broke the story) Facebook page
posted by ericb at 6:04 PM on January 3, 2011
"Some sailors who served on the Enterprise have taken to Facebook to defend Honors and his video skits for providing a much-needed morale boost during long deployments at sea."USS Enterprise (CVN 65) Facebook page.
Support Captain Owen Honors - USS Enterprise Facebook page
Discussion at the Virginia Pilot's (which broke the story) Facebook page
posted by ericb at 6:04 PM on January 3, 2011
Navy's Quick Condemnation Of Raunchy Videos Wins Praise From Gay Rights Groups.
posted by ericb at 6:06 PM on January 3, 2011
posted by ericb at 6:06 PM on January 3, 2011
POINT:
"'They were probably hoping it would all go away, and it didn't and now they have to say something,' said Michael Corgan, a career Navy officer who now teaches at Boston University.COUNTERPOINT:
... Corgan said Honors was guilty not only of an error in judgment but of failing to recognize a changing Navy culture. 'Standards shift, of course, and trimming your sails is something you have to do if you're going command people in the Navy,' Corgan said. 'This guy showed poor judgment.'
... Corgan said the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell probably had nothing to do with the furor now: 'What he did would have been dumb 30, 40 years ago.'" *
"'It's no worse than anything you'd see on Saturday Night Live or the Family Guy,' said Houston native Misty Davis, who worked on the Enterprise's weapons systems during her 2006-2010 tour. She called Honors as 'the best the Navy has to offer' and said the skits were welcome entertainment onboard."*posted by ericb at 6:15 PM on January 3, 2011
It's no worse than anything you'd see on Saturday Night Live...
"Jane, you ignorant slut!"
posted by ericb at 6:16 PM on January 3, 2011
"Jane, you ignorant slut!"
posted by ericb at 6:16 PM on January 3, 2011
A good self-test is, "What would boss/family/spouse/the public think of this?" When you have to preface your videos with 'my superiors know nothing about this and should not be held accountable,' you should probably not be making those videos.
posted by Menthol at 6:31 PM on January 3, 2011
posted by Menthol at 6:31 PM on January 3, 2011
And WE put them there, so let's not forget that part.
This somehow changes things, makes it OK?
The message of "Err hey if you are embarrassed by what comes in the wikileaks releases perhaps you shouldn' t do those things" didn't get traction - why would '"we" put them there'?
posted by rough ashlar at 7:23 PM on January 3, 2011
This somehow changes things, makes it OK?
The message of "Err hey if you are embarrassed by what comes in the wikileaks releases perhaps you shouldn' t do those things" didn't get traction - why would '"we" put them there'?
posted by rough ashlar at 7:23 PM on January 3, 2011
Experts: Capt. Owen Honors' Navy Career Is Over.
Oh, yeah. He's done. He won't ship out, he'll be, at best, assigned to other duties and then cordially invited to retire right now.
Which, of course, is wrong. He should be convicted, cashiered, and discharged dishonorably as an E-1. But I would be very surprised if that happens. This guy made O-6, and made the highest non-flag post you can make as an aviation community officer in the USN -- CO of a carrier. He has friends in high places.
But he's done. He'll never hoist a flag. It's not enough, but it'll have to do.
posted by eriko at 8:23 PM on January 3, 2011
Oh, yeah. He's done. He won't ship out, he'll be, at best, assigned to other duties and then cordially invited to retire right now.
Which, of course, is wrong. He should be convicted, cashiered, and discharged dishonorably as an E-1. But I would be very surprised if that happens. This guy made O-6, and made the highest non-flag post you can make as an aviation community officer in the USN -- CO of a carrier. He has friends in high places.
But he's done. He'll never hoist a flag. It's not enough, but it'll have to do.
posted by eriko at 8:23 PM on January 3, 2011
Menthol: A good self-test is, "What would boss/family/spouse/the public think of this?"
That's a terrible criterion, because only the most boring life imaginable wouldn't anger at least some people. Furthermore, a lot of people get outraged at things they have absolutely no right to be angry about. There are practical concerns to offending people that have power over you, but from what I've seen the person who reacts is wrong more often than the person who provokes the reaction.
This particular case is probably over the line (I haven't seen enough data to know for sure, but it sure looks like it) but I don't think naval vessels should necessarily restrict all public interactions to polite business decorum, either. You can't stick a small town on the ocean for months and expect people (young adults, no less) to not act human. If you made everyone be inoffensive all of the time, you'd just ensure that everyone was always bored and miserable, nobody ever interacted, and none of them cared much if the others lived or died.
posted by Mitrovarr at 11:26 PM on January 3, 2011
That's a terrible criterion, because only the most boring life imaginable wouldn't anger at least some people. Furthermore, a lot of people get outraged at things they have absolutely no right to be angry about. There are practical concerns to offending people that have power over you, but from what I've seen the person who reacts is wrong more often than the person who provokes the reaction.
This particular case is probably over the line (I haven't seen enough data to know for sure, but it sure looks like it) but I don't think naval vessels should necessarily restrict all public interactions to polite business decorum, either. You can't stick a small town on the ocean for months and expect people (young adults, no less) to not act human. If you made everyone be inoffensive all of the time, you'd just ensure that everyone was always bored and miserable, nobody ever interacted, and none of them cared much if the others lived or died.
posted by Mitrovarr at 11:26 PM on January 3, 2011
i'm gay and was discharged from the navy for it (pre-dadt), but i don't think getting rid of the guy is necessarily the best thing. if it was an issue of morale, he was likely just trying to speak to them using the kind of humor they use every day, and that they would respond to. it appears that he is popular in his command; you get rid of him for something like this, and it doesn't especially cultivate a positive or neutral view toward openly gay sailors. (one thing the pentagon report on dadt was good about was anticipating and suggesting ways to minimize backlash.) i think a better solution, if the guy were willing and sincere, would be to have him model for his command a shift in attitude toward women and gay sailors. if you're going to argue that he is setting a bad example for subordinates, then it's not so far to allow that he could potentially set a good example by showing how those attitudes can change.
but then i wouldn't assume this guy's prejudices are the real thing. the attempt to be funny can distort one's self-assessment of offensiveness and nuance; i've known people for whom this kind of humor is an attempt to convey acceptance. and in a strange way, it is progress; this is pretty mild and light in tone, a big step up from the bitter, contempt-driven humor that used to be more common, and certainly preferable to a time when the topic was threatening such that it could not be broached with any measure of humor.
posted by fallacy of the beard at 11:40 PM on January 3, 2011 [3 favorites]
but then i wouldn't assume this guy's prejudices are the real thing. the attempt to be funny can distort one's self-assessment of offensiveness and nuance; i've known people for whom this kind of humor is an attempt to convey acceptance. and in a strange way, it is progress; this is pretty mild and light in tone, a big step up from the bitter, contempt-driven humor that used to be more common, and certainly preferable to a time when the topic was threatening such that it could not be broached with any measure of humor.
posted by fallacy of the beard at 11:40 PM on January 3, 2011 [3 favorites]
Um, who's surprised? Who didn't already know?
All the "Support OUr Troops No Matter What" people who plugged their fingers in their ears and went "LALALALALALALA" when we had things like Tailhook, or the Air Force Academy scandal, or Aberdeen,, or the Navy Dog Handlers, or....
I don't think you can't say, hey its a good thing that people are volunteering to be in the Armed Forces and expose themselves to danger and to also say "hey what these guys here or there did is bad." The "troops" and "Captain Honor, USN" are two totally distinct things.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:33 AM on January 4, 2011
All the "Support OUr Troops No Matter What" people who plugged their fingers in their ears and went "LALALALALALALA" when we had things like Tailhook, or the Air Force Academy scandal, or Aberdeen,, or the Navy Dog Handlers, or....
I don't think you can't say, hey its a good thing that people are volunteering to be in the Armed Forces and expose themselves to danger and to also say "hey what these guys here or there did is bad." The "troops" and "Captain Honor, USN" are two totally distinct things.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:33 AM on January 4, 2011
But he's done. He'll never hoist a flag. It's not enough, but it'll have to do.
I'm honestly wondering whether I saw the same video as you. I get that it's politically embarrassing for such a high officer to be in the news for some recorded fratboy humor, but you want more than the end of this guy's career for it? Did I miss some raping, prisoner abuse, or other serious misconduct?
posted by norm at 9:56 AM on January 4, 2011
I'm honestly wondering whether I saw the same video as you. I get that it's politically embarrassing for such a high officer to be in the news for some recorded fratboy humor, but you want more than the end of this guy's career for it? Did I miss some raping, prisoner abuse, or other serious misconduct?
posted by norm at 9:56 AM on January 4, 2011
~ Just an aside, I wrote this the other night, but never posted it, when I first heard the news surrounding the controversy and as proud former member of the USS Enterprise's ships company, I had a lot of mixed feelings concerning the captain's eventual removal, a fait accompli once the Navy made their press release, but I think it's somewhat relevant in giving an understanding of what goes on out at sea and why it doesn't always match up to the realities of the civilian world. ~
The clips I've seen, while boring and devoid of any comedic or production value, hardly merit what amounts to the show trial of a career officer in front of a public audience, which is what this is, because no matter how well Capt. Honors serves his country going forward, he'll be remembered as the guy who ruined XO Movie Night.
To some, that may be a good thing, but to others who spend six months out at sea with very little entertainment and limited time away from the monotony of shipboard life, those breaks in the routine, no matter how campy or poorly executed, are a welcomed respite and more often than not do more to bring the ship together than anything else. And yes, sometimes they can be tasteless, but they reflect both the age and maturity of the crew, or in this case, the hubris of one Owen Honors. Overlooking infractions such as these would be the pragmatic thing to do, albeit with some enlightenment as to how the public culture has evolved and a censure of Capt. Honors, but not punishing an entire crew, which is what you do when you remove their CO right before a deployment.
On the other hand, a grown man appointed to a post of responsibility should have enough common sense to know that while the taxpayers are more than joyfully willing to fork over the money for weapons that bring violent death and destruction to the lives of others, they can be a finicky bunch when their socio-sexual sensibilities are tickled. And since they pay the bills, it's best not to use adult humor on materials that may fall into the public domain. Or NJP someone who has a copy of said materials. These types of scenarios are not new and one should know to avoid making light of certain topics like sex, money, religion, politics and especially rectal exams. Keep in mind that on a ship, the Captain/CO is the father of the crew and the XO is the ruthless gold-digging-whore-second-wife-stepmother who can't wait to trash you in an effort to keep climbing the ladder. Which is what you need in a successful XO, not one who makes amateur attempts at comedy which betray his everyday character, but I can see his attempt at satirizing himself in an effort to show his human side to the crew, a human side shaped over many years by a culture and doctrine that stigmatized the weak and rewarded the aggressive.
Hey, so at very best the man is guilty of being crude, unfunny and using visual aids that may or may not be well received in the context of appropriateness, but at least he didn't ruin Bingo Night. That would've been a catastrophe of biblical proportions, but nothing in comparison to what one hears every day from mainstream comedians.
Also, I'd like to congratulate the Navy PR machine for throwing the man under the bus right at the onset. Original and cunning, denying someone their due process while simultaneously announcing an investigation into their past behavior is a skillful move often employed when you really don't want your entire organization in the spotlight, isn't it?
posted by jsavimbi at 10:03 AM on January 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
The clips I've seen, while boring and devoid of any comedic or production value, hardly merit what amounts to the show trial of a career officer in front of a public audience, which is what this is, because no matter how well Capt. Honors serves his country going forward, he'll be remembered as the guy who ruined XO Movie Night.
To some, that may be a good thing, but to others who spend six months out at sea with very little entertainment and limited time away from the monotony of shipboard life, those breaks in the routine, no matter how campy or poorly executed, are a welcomed respite and more often than not do more to bring the ship together than anything else. And yes, sometimes they can be tasteless, but they reflect both the age and maturity of the crew, or in this case, the hubris of one Owen Honors. Overlooking infractions such as these would be the pragmatic thing to do, albeit with some enlightenment as to how the public culture has evolved and a censure of Capt. Honors, but not punishing an entire crew, which is what you do when you remove their CO right before a deployment.
On the other hand, a grown man appointed to a post of responsibility should have enough common sense to know that while the taxpayers are more than joyfully willing to fork over the money for weapons that bring violent death and destruction to the lives of others, they can be a finicky bunch when their socio-sexual sensibilities are tickled. And since they pay the bills, it's best not to use adult humor on materials that may fall into the public domain. Or NJP someone who has a copy of said materials. These types of scenarios are not new and one should know to avoid making light of certain topics like sex, money, religion, politics and especially rectal exams. Keep in mind that on a ship, the Captain/CO is the father of the crew and the XO is the ruthless gold-digging-whore-second-wife-stepmother who can't wait to trash you in an effort to keep climbing the ladder. Which is what you need in a successful XO, not one who makes amateur attempts at comedy which betray his everyday character, but I can see his attempt at satirizing himself in an effort to show his human side to the crew, a human side shaped over many years by a culture and doctrine that stigmatized the weak and rewarded the aggressive.
Hey, so at very best the man is guilty of being crude, unfunny and using visual aids that may or may not be well received in the context of appropriateness, but at least he didn't ruin Bingo Night. That would've been a catastrophe of biblical proportions, but nothing in comparison to what one hears every day from mainstream comedians.
Also, I'd like to congratulate the Navy PR machine for throwing the man under the bus right at the onset. Original and cunning, denying someone their due process while simultaneously announcing an investigation into their past behavior is a skillful move often employed when you really don't want your entire organization in the spotlight, isn't it?
posted by jsavimbi at 10:03 AM on January 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Senior military officials said they were trying to determine who among Navy leaders knew about the videos when they were shown repeatedly in 2006 and 2007 to thousands of crew members aboard the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier.-------------
An investigation by U.S. Fleet Forces Command in Norfolk, Va., also is seeking to determine whether Capt. Owen Honors was reprimanded at the time.
The episode has raised serious questions about whether military leaders can behave badly so long as the public doesn't find out.*
Navy Capt. Owen Honors was an officer with a bright future, a hotshot fighter jock who rose to become commander of one of the most storied ships in the fleet, the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise.posted by hippybear at 2:49 PM on January 4, 2011
His undoing was a sense of humor that seemed a throwback to the Navy's raucous, macho Tailhook days nearly two decades ago.*
The clips I've seen, while boring and devoid of any comedic or production value, hardly merit what amounts to the show trial of a career officer in front of a public audience
In one of the videos, then-XO Honors says
posted by squorch at 5:42 PM on January 4, 2011
In one of the videos, then-XO Honors says
As usual, the captain and the admiral, they don't know anything at all about the content of the video and the movie this evening and they should absolutely not be held accountable in any judicial setting.When you have to preface your video with the words "should not be held accountable in any judicial setting," maybe you shouldn't be making that video.
posted by squorch at 5:42 PM on January 4, 2011
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